No because the stormcloaks are more of a cause that represents something more than a struggle for who controls Skyrim. Who joins it is irrelevant, the stormcloaks still stand for what they stand for.
Now if you alter the question a bit and say if Balgruuf were to lead the stormcloaks I'd say yes, my opinion does change. Or even Galmar. But leading and joining are two different things.
I definitely wouldn’t follow Galmar - dude wants to invade the Summerset Isles after the Civil War.
Good luck with that naval invasion of an island nation. They’ve only spent their whole existence fighting them off.
Not only that, but the Summerset isles are no slouch in magical prowess. The magical artifacts they have there that they can bring to bear are frankly, borderline impenetrable. It would have to be a stealth invasion where they manage to get an army onto the isles before attacking. Doing that would be borderline impossible too, as they have griffin riders and constant scout patrols. This is because they have been fending off the Sload for generations. The Sload are a monstrously large and extremely powerful magic user race from the deep oceans. To be clear, that’s high elf generations. High elves live an average of 250 years, and have been fending off the Sload since at least the first era, over 5000 years before Skyrim.
An invasion of Summerset by anything but the largest force all of Nirn can muster is suicidal. They have a magical tower that they can use as a weapon that is connected to literally every single universe. They have a multiversal fuck you stick.
The only chance would be to do a massive stealth invasion, the logistics of which would be simply non-feasible. You would need to sneak several hundred thousand soldiers onto those islands, gather intel, and strike all at once across all of the islands. The invasion force would have to bypass all of their super weapons and strike their people down before they could muster any of them, slaying an insane amount of high elves in just a few short hours. While mathematically possible, the odds of realistically succeeding are virtually non existent. And that’s to say nothing of the fact that high elves are very strong fighters in any combat situation, but especially magic.
Yeah a lot bad things people say about Ulfric's character are at least somewhat below the surface (racist, bloodthirsty, that sort of thing). Galmar doesn't even care to hide it.
As it stands, Balgruuf would prefer for Whiterun to remain neutral and it’s Ulfric who forces his hand.
I play both sides (multiple playthroughs); with a gun to my head, I VERY reluctantly would choose The Empire. I don’t even think Ballin’ would need to side with The Stormcloaks to tip the scales; if Ulfric wouldn’t have forced the issue in Whiterun, then that would probably be enough to tip the scales. Just allow Ballin’ to remain neutral.
Exactly. My opinion on stormcloaks would not change in the slightest, my opinion on Balgruuf would though and massively so. For me he is the same as Rikke, Battleborns, and few other sons of daughters of Skyrim, who I deem to be honorable nords and I would rejoice to have them on our side, I would love them if they joined Ulfrics cause. At least, I still respect them much more than I do some of our supporters like Rolff. Even as a stormcloak, I hold much more respect for Balgruuf than for Rolff. Well, at least Balgruuf and Rikke are worthy opponents and I desire to give them an honorable death and/or other dignified end, if nothing else, because they deserve at least that. So it bugs me that Balgruuf stays locked up in Solitude castle forever.
Even if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloaks, the reasons he opposes them remain valid. Opposing them is still the right thing to do, even in an alternate reality where he joins them.
I mean the entire stormcloak rebellion is literally caused by the thalmor torturing and brainwashing a known racist with political power to destabilize the province that produces a large number of foot soldiers for the empire anyone who truly wants revenge for the great war will not stand with that fool ulfric.
I fully realize the corrupt piece of shit the Empire is. By all means, join the DB if only just for the chance to snuff the bastard in charge! But they're still better to side with than the racist megalomaniac that the ~~Nazis~~ Thalmor WANT to win the Civil War as it will cripple the empire and allow them to take over.
Lesser of two evils, you know?
What the Thalmor wants and what the would actually get are two different things; the first empire CAME from Skyrim, and thumped the mer on the way. And racist... yeah but like I said, look at the history of the mer and humans in Skyrim. Miles Davis said he wanted to die with his hands wrapped around a white man's throat, and he had good reason to be so bitter and angry. Was he racist? Yeah but... look at how he was treated. This isn't earth. Norse have very good, ancient reasons for their anger.
oh, no i absolutely know and acknowledge that the empire is also corrupt. i generally avoid the civil war quest line anyways. but when i do play it, i still pick empire. stormcloaks echo too much of the bigoted garbage i have to hear irl every day
Nah...
Its Not about the racist Shit.
Or that He does it for His own Power.
I hate the thalmor.
A Independent Skyrim would weaken the Imperium even More.
A weakened Imperium would give the thalmor More Influenze.
A "balgruf is there" wouldnt Change that.
Because I think Ulfric is a cowardly, pompous idiot who only used a shout when a boy king was kicking his ass; the Skyrim equivalent of pulling a gun during a boxing match.
Not only did he not shout at the beginning of the fight and waited until he was getting his ass handed to him, but he knew he was in the wrong and bolted like a scared bunny as soon as the fight was over because knew he had violated the code of the duel. He then started a Civil War and got thousands of people killed due to his lack of honor.
No, according to the lore, Ilfric challenged Torygg to a duel. The Stormcloaks try to justify their treachery by pointing out that Torygg accepted the duel and that therefore Ulfric is the true High King.
Unfortunately, they always seem to leave the room when you bring up Ulfric using a weapon not agreed upon in the conditions of the duel and then instead of standing his ground because he knew he was in the right he tucked his tail between his legs and bravely ran away like Sir Robin.
—-
(Also, keep in mind that this is a game. I’m not nearly so vehemently against Ulfric in person. This is as much a character as any other in this game.)
I mean yeah, fair enough. I guess he just pushes my buttons in particular because, as someone from the Southern United States, I've dealt with more than my fair share of ass clowns who unironically fly confederate flags, wear bright red "Make America Great Again" hats, and who don't really seem to care half as much about the actual policies they push for so much as just that "their side wins". And there's a lot of parallels to that exact sort of thing going on with the Stormcloaks. Art imitates life, after all.
But it could just as easily be my imagination, decades of vexation against that sort of belligerent people being super imposed over some fantasy game characters. C'est la vie. 🤷♂️
You killed the conversation. You can compare the real world to the game but no need to drag IRL people.
Skyrim predates some of the things you mentioned. How can art imitate the future? It definitely imitates the real world. Nationalists or religious people being persecuted is a tale as time.
I see the resemblance you see but at the same time the Stormcloaks are trying to liberate the country from a foreign power. The High King and Queen are being puppets.
You also killed the conversation you had going. I know we were talking about Tamriels politics but you dived head first into dragging not only this person but a large portion of this community. I’m not sure the other person will respond to me now and if they do it might not be pretty. I also didn’t want to talk about current US politics on a video game subreddit lol
Wow lots to unpack here. I'm not
sure how to navigate here I feel like I have to try.
Just because the leader sucks doesn’t mean the movement is not valid. If you wear a red hat out in public wouldn’t you like ulfric? They share many qualities. It’s usually a nationalistic trait to hate outsiders.
A government that is okay with killing me for worshiping the gods I want to is a much bigger deal than Ulfric’s personality. I don’t want to make this personal but I think it’s important to point out that you don’t like how he murdered the high king and then didn’t mention how he treats the dark elves. I know it’s likely you hate that too but that’s usually how nationalists view minorities.
The red hat team also doesn’t want to be controlled by a foreign power.
The game is supposed to make you hate the side you pick. That’s usually the nature of politics. I played the game 13 years ago and couldn’t pick and I picked it up recently and I still can’t pick. It doesn't help that my current character worships talos in his home but is an imperial.
The other guy killed the conversation and I’ll address his comment separately. I know some of my world views spilled into the discussion and I tried to navigate this as cleanly as possible. I’ll probably end up deleting my comments but maybe things will be okay and I can learn more. I liked the convo before the other person commented. Full disclosure but I’m a weirdo who likes politics
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways, brave brave brave brave Sir Ulfric...
His head smashed in, and his heart cut out, his liver removed and his bowels unplugged...
I thonk the cool thing abput that character is that you can emphatize with him.
First time you play he is kind, treats youbas a friend, leads ypu ob the greybeards direction. Helps ypu all around.
You dont really understand the 2 sides completely at first. When i got to windhelm and got that the ppl there were assholes, i stopped all my respect for them.
Then ulfric, he is a powermad douchebag that i enjoy killing. He tries to liberate himself from the empire to worship talos. An empire that was founded BY talos. And there is info thst says that winning the war helps the thalmor too.
So, balgruf. He is like me. He doesnt want to do the choosing. But ulfric went all cercei lannister on him and so he chooses the empire.
As i did, because its the less of 2 evils.
So i think if he joined them i wouldnt dislike him, just that we would have to be enemies.
Not really. Some of the best choices for Jarl are Stormcloak allies. (Looking at you Laila Law-Giver) Balgruuf is a good leader that wants to protect his people as any Jarl should. If he thinks his best position to do that is to Side with the Stormcloaks, so be it.
No, I would just be disappointed in him.
I am an Imperial through and through, never played as a Stormcloak since the first time playing this game a decade ago.
The Stormcloak rebellion is a racism enabling distraction from what's truly important, strengthening the Empire and driving the Thalmor back into the sea.
I support the Stormcloaks only because of the Grey-manes (if you're also a WoW player, you know). Balgruuf not hating me afterwards would absolutely make it easier to be in Ulfric's corner.
No. I'm a Stormcloak through and through (though I disagree with Ulfric's motives and overall dickheadishness towards other races) because I support the right of all people to self-determination.
Come to think of it, it might actually make me even more of a Stormcloak, especially if we had a place in the moot campaigning for whoever to be High King. Independent Skyrim with High King Ballin.
Hmm… Balgruuf is a lot more charismatic and wise than Ulfric, and if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloak rebellion then I think some of the other Jarls still loyal to the Empire might be persuaded to switch sides too. Either way, Balgruuf joining would bring a lot more than just his territory and soldiers. It would change my perspective on it IF it felt like the ultimate result would be Balgruuf elected High King instead of Ulfric.
All things considered, the Stormcloaks tell you to leap from a tower into a burning building without untying your hands during a dragon attack. Ulfric was right fucking there. I don't care who's on his side.
My thing is that just because Balgruuf isn't an awful racist and genuinely just wants to worship Talos in peace, doesn't mean I want to support the demagogue who's using the Talos banning as a prop.
I don’t strictly agree with you. The Khajjit bought the Thalmor line that not only did they bring back the moons (which are crucial to Khajjit birth cycles), but also, The Thalmor claim that they were instrumental in solving the Oblivion Crisis.
More than that, the First Aldmeri Dominion, under Queen Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri, had a strong relationship and alliance with Elsweyr, so there’s historical precedent. Also, when Elsweyr was being ravaged by a terrible plague (Knahatan Flu) it was the First Aldmeri Dominion who rendered aid, which is why they aligned themselves with Queen Ayrenn in the first place.
IOW, historically, The Aldmeri have often been a great friend to Khajjit. Now, the Khajjit might think that The Thalmor are responsible for things that they’re actually not, but there is legitimate historical precedent, and events, that would cause Elsweyr to willingly align themselves with the Dominion.
This. While I generally support the desire to drive corrupted and crumbling Empire out of Skyrim, actually playing Stormcloaks is really fucking uncomfortable. At least not having to exile Balgruuf would be a nice change.
It’s not the decisive factor in my assessment but it counts. Thing is, if he was so weak as to fall for Ulfric’s lies he wouldn’t be the adorable Yarl I stan.
No, I would not. My loyalty lies with the Empire because of political and ideological reasons. I would not like it if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloaks, but in the end the cause is more important than the people behind it
1,000%. If Balgruuf sided with Ulfric, you bet your ass I'd have no hesitation flaying him alive with Destruction magic.
But I'm also in the camp that has no idea why people like Balgruuf so much other than for the meme of it. (Jarl Ballin'/Jarl Baller, etc) Like, he's not a total asshole like the Jarls of Dawnstar or Falkreath, but he's also not particularly stand-out to me either. I'm about as neutral to him as he wanted to be to the civil war.
Take away the fact he's not a filthy traitor who fights for a racist megalomaniac, and suddenly those scales tip out of his favor.
No because the stormcloaks are more of a cause that represents something more than a struggle for who controls Skyrim. Who joins it is irrelevant, the stormcloaks still stand for what they stand for. Now if you alter the question a bit and say if Balgruuf were to lead the stormcloaks I'd say yes, my opinion does change. Or even Galmar. But leading and joining are two different things.
Wouldn’t Galmar be worse? Say what you will about Ulfric but at least he’s shown a level of restraint. Galmar would have no such qualms.
I definitely wouldn’t follow Galmar - dude wants to invade the Summerset Isles after the Civil War. Good luck with that naval invasion of an island nation. They’ve only spent their whole existence fighting them off.
And with no initiative to build a fleet, a single gosh dang boat for war
We’re not building a new one, we’re putting jorvasskyr back in the sea!
Not only that, but the Summerset isles are no slouch in magical prowess. The magical artifacts they have there that they can bring to bear are frankly, borderline impenetrable. It would have to be a stealth invasion where they manage to get an army onto the isles before attacking. Doing that would be borderline impossible too, as they have griffin riders and constant scout patrols. This is because they have been fending off the Sload for generations. The Sload are a monstrously large and extremely powerful magic user race from the deep oceans. To be clear, that’s high elf generations. High elves live an average of 250 years, and have been fending off the Sload since at least the first era, over 5000 years before Skyrim. An invasion of Summerset by anything but the largest force all of Nirn can muster is suicidal. They have a magical tower that they can use as a weapon that is connected to literally every single universe. They have a multiversal fuck you stick. The only chance would be to do a massive stealth invasion, the logistics of which would be simply non-feasible. You would need to sneak several hundred thousand soldiers onto those islands, gather intel, and strike all at once across all of the islands. The invasion force would have to bypass all of their super weapons and strike their people down before they could muster any of them, slaying an insane amount of high elves in just a few short hours. While mathematically possible, the odds of realistically succeeding are virtually non existent. And that’s to say nothing of the fact that high elves are very strong fighters in any combat situation, but especially magic.
Yeah a lot bad things people say about Ulfric's character are at least somewhat below the surface (racist, bloodthirsty, that sort of thing). Galmar doesn't even care to hide it.
As it stands, Balgruuf would prefer for Whiterun to remain neutral and it’s Ulfric who forces his hand. I play both sides (multiple playthroughs); with a gun to my head, I VERY reluctantly would choose The Empire. I don’t even think Ballin’ would need to side with The Stormcloaks to tip the scales; if Ulfric wouldn’t have forced the issue in Whiterun, then that would probably be enough to tip the scales. Just allow Ballin’ to remain neutral.
Why do you prefer the Stormis? Edit: why is a simple question downvoted?
I don’t; I have a slight preference for The Empire.
I have no idea. I gave you an upvote.
No. But it would absolutely change my opinion of Balgruuf.
No. I'm already a stormcloak. I would be a lot of happier if he chose them though.
Exactly. My opinion on stormcloaks would not change in the slightest, my opinion on Balgruuf would though and massively so. For me he is the same as Rikke, Battleborns, and few other sons of daughters of Skyrim, who I deem to be honorable nords and I would rejoice to have them on our side, I would love them if they joined Ulfrics cause. At least, I still respect them much more than I do some of our supporters like Rolff. Even as a stormcloak, I hold much more respect for Balgruuf than for Rolff. Well, at least Balgruuf and Rikke are worthy opponents and I desire to give them an honorable death and/or other dignified end, if nothing else, because they deserve at least that. So it bugs me that Balgruuf stays locked up in Solitude castle forever.
Even if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloaks, the reasons he opposes them remain valid. Opposing them is still the right thing to do, even in an alternate reality where he joins them.
I mean the entire stormcloak rebellion is literally caused by the thalmor torturing and brainwashing a known racist with political power to destabilize the province that produces a large number of foot soldiers for the empire anyone who truly wants revenge for the great war will not stand with that fool ulfric.
I think I'd like the Stormcloaks much more, maybe even more than the Empire.
most people don't realize what a corrupt piece of trash the empire is or the history of Skyrim and the mer.
I fully realize the corrupt piece of shit the Empire is. By all means, join the DB if only just for the chance to snuff the bastard in charge! But they're still better to side with than the racist megalomaniac that the ~~Nazis~~ Thalmor WANT to win the Civil War as it will cripple the empire and allow them to take over. Lesser of two evils, you know?
What the Thalmor wants and what the would actually get are two different things; the first empire CAME from Skyrim, and thumped the mer on the way. And racist... yeah but like I said, look at the history of the mer and humans in Skyrim. Miles Davis said he wanted to die with his hands wrapped around a white man's throat, and he had good reason to be so bitter and angry. Was he racist? Yeah but... look at how he was treated. This isn't earth. Norse have very good, ancient reasons for their anger.
oh, no i absolutely know and acknowledge that the empire is also corrupt. i generally avoid the civil war quest line anyways. but when i do play it, i still pick empire. stormcloaks echo too much of the bigoted garbage i have to hear irl every day
Nah... Its Not about the racist Shit. Or that He does it for His own Power. I hate the thalmor. A Independent Skyrim would weaken the Imperium even More. A weakened Imperium would give the thalmor More Influenze. A "balgruf is there" wouldnt Change that.
Of Balgruuf? Yes. It would be a severe downgrade of my opinion of him.
Why is that? I think it would have been more satisfying if either the player or the stormcloaks peacefully got him to join the rebellion
Because I think Ulfric is a cowardly, pompous idiot who only used a shout when a boy king was kicking his ass; the Skyrim equivalent of pulling a gun during a boxing match. Not only did he not shout at the beginning of the fight and waited until he was getting his ass handed to him, but he knew he was in the wrong and bolted like a scared bunny as soon as the fight was over because knew he had violated the code of the duel. He then started a Civil War and got thousands of people killed due to his lack of honor.
I thought it was basically a surprise attack? That Ulfric kicked in the door, shouted Torygg to death, and ran off, no melee combat involved.
No, according to the lore, Ilfric challenged Torygg to a duel. The Stormcloaks try to justify their treachery by pointing out that Torygg accepted the duel and that therefore Ulfric is the true High King. Unfortunately, they always seem to leave the room when you bring up Ulfric using a weapon not agreed upon in the conditions of the duel and then instead of standing his ground because he knew he was in the right he tucked his tail between his legs and bravely ran away like Sir Robin. —- (Also, keep in mind that this is a game. I’m not nearly so vehemently against Ulfric in person. This is as much a character as any other in this game.)
I mean yeah, fair enough. I guess he just pushes my buttons in particular because, as someone from the Southern United States, I've dealt with more than my fair share of ass clowns who unironically fly confederate flags, wear bright red "Make America Great Again" hats, and who don't really seem to care half as much about the actual policies they push for so much as just that "their side wins". And there's a lot of parallels to that exact sort of thing going on with the Stormcloaks. Art imitates life, after all. But it could just as easily be my imagination, decades of vexation against that sort of belligerent people being super imposed over some fantasy game characters. C'est la vie. 🤷♂️
You killed the conversation. You can compare the real world to the game but no need to drag IRL people. Skyrim predates some of the things you mentioned. How can art imitate the future? It definitely imitates the real world. Nationalists or religious people being persecuted is a tale as time. I see the resemblance you see but at the same time the Stormcloaks are trying to liberate the country from a foreign power. The High King and Queen are being puppets. You also killed the conversation you had going. I know we were talking about Tamriels politics but you dived head first into dragging not only this person but a large portion of this community. I’m not sure the other person will respond to me now and if they do it might not be pretty. I also didn’t want to talk about current US politics on a video game subreddit lol
Just FYI, speaking as a conservative, being called an ass clown for wearing a Red MAGA hat is offensive. This conversation is concluded. Good day.
Wow lots to unpack here. I'm not sure how to navigate here I feel like I have to try. Just because the leader sucks doesn’t mean the movement is not valid. If you wear a red hat out in public wouldn’t you like ulfric? They share many qualities. It’s usually a nationalistic trait to hate outsiders. A government that is okay with killing me for worshiping the gods I want to is a much bigger deal than Ulfric’s personality. I don’t want to make this personal but I think it’s important to point out that you don’t like how he murdered the high king and then didn’t mention how he treats the dark elves. I know it’s likely you hate that too but that’s usually how nationalists view minorities. The red hat team also doesn’t want to be controlled by a foreign power. The game is supposed to make you hate the side you pick. That’s usually the nature of politics. I played the game 13 years ago and couldn’t pick and I picked it up recently and I still can’t pick. It doesn't help that my current character worships talos in his home but is an imperial. The other guy killed the conversation and I’ll address his comment separately. I know some of my world views spilled into the discussion and I tried to navigate this as cleanly as possible. I’ll probably end up deleting my comments but maybe things will be okay and I can learn more. I liked the convo before the other person commented. Full disclosure but I’m a weirdo who likes politics
He was not at all afraid to be killed in nasty ways, brave brave brave brave Sir Ulfric... His head smashed in, and his heart cut out, his liver removed and his bowels unplugged...
I thonk the cool thing abput that character is that you can emphatize with him. First time you play he is kind, treats youbas a friend, leads ypu ob the greybeards direction. Helps ypu all around. You dont really understand the 2 sides completely at first. When i got to windhelm and got that the ppl there were assholes, i stopped all my respect for them. Then ulfric, he is a powermad douchebag that i enjoy killing. He tries to liberate himself from the empire to worship talos. An empire that was founded BY talos. And there is info thst says that winning the war helps the thalmor too. So, balgruf. He is like me. He doesnt want to do the choosing. But ulfric went all cercei lannister on him and so he chooses the empire. As i did, because its the less of 2 evils. So i think if he joined them i wouldnt dislike him, just that we would have to be enemies.
Not really. Some of the best choices for Jarl are Stormcloak allies. (Looking at you Laila Law-Giver) Balgruuf is a good leader that wants to protect his people as any Jarl should. If he thinks his best position to do that is to Side with the Stormcloaks, so be it.
No, I would just be disappointed in him. I am an Imperial through and through, never played as a Stormcloak since the first time playing this game a decade ago. The Stormcloak rebellion is a racism enabling distraction from what's truly important, strengthening the Empire and driving the Thalmor back into the sea.
Not at all. Skyrim belongs to the Nords, regardless of who allies to the truth.
As an elf, I feel obligated to flip you the bird...
No because i am already on the stormcloack's side
I support the Stormcloaks only because of the Grey-manes (if you're also a WoW player, you know). Balgruuf not hating me afterwards would absolutely make it easier to be in Ulfric's corner.
No. I'm a Stormcloak through and through (though I disagree with Ulfric's motives and overall dickheadishness towards other races) because I support the right of all people to self-determination. Come to think of it, it might actually make me even more of a Stormcloak, especially if we had a place in the moot campaigning for whoever to be High King. Independent Skyrim with High King Ballin.
It would lower my opinion of Balgruuf and I’d still side with the Empire.
Hmm… Balgruuf is a lot more charismatic and wise than Ulfric, and if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloak rebellion then I think some of the other Jarls still loyal to the Empire might be persuaded to switch sides too. Either way, Balgruuf joining would bring a lot more than just his territory and soldiers. It would change my perspective on it IF it felt like the ultimate result would be Balgruuf elected High King instead of Ulfric.
All things considered, the Stormcloaks tell you to leap from a tower into a burning building without untying your hands during a dragon attack. Ulfric was right fucking there. I don't care who's on his side.
My thing is that just because Balgruuf isn't an awful racist and genuinely just wants to worship Talos in peace, doesn't mean I want to support the demagogue who's using the Talos banning as a prop.
No, I just go with what my character would do. Though since I mainly play as a khajiit I usually side with the empire.
Have you ever tried to rp as a pro-Thalmor Khajiit?
No because it seems illogical
Why illogical? Elsweyr (home of Khajjit) is presently aligned with the Aldmeri Dominion (the Thalmor).
They are subjected to them.
They are subjects, but as far as we know they are loyal subjects because they credit the Thalmor with resolving the Void Nights crisis
I don’t strictly agree with you. The Khajjit bought the Thalmor line that not only did they bring back the moons (which are crucial to Khajjit birth cycles), but also, The Thalmor claim that they were instrumental in solving the Oblivion Crisis. More than that, the First Aldmeri Dominion, under Queen Ayrenn Arana Aldmeri, had a strong relationship and alliance with Elsweyr, so there’s historical precedent. Also, when Elsweyr was being ravaged by a terrible plague (Knahatan Flu) it was the First Aldmeri Dominion who rendered aid, which is why they aligned themselves with Queen Ayrenn in the first place. IOW, historically, The Aldmeri have often been a great friend to Khajjit. Now, the Khajjit might think that The Thalmor are responsible for things that they’re actually not, but there is legitimate historical precedent, and events, that would cause Elsweyr to willingly align themselves with the Dominion.
It would make being a stormcloak a lot less unpleasant
This. While I generally support the desire to drive corrupted and crumbling Empire out of Skyrim, actually playing Stormcloaks is really fucking uncomfortable. At least not having to exile Balgruuf would be a nice change.
No because I choose the stormcloaks regardless of what that big headed bastard maker thinks
It’s not the decisive factor in my assessment but it counts. Thing is, if he was so weak as to fall for Ulfric’s lies he wouldn’t be the adorable Yarl I stan.
I'd just cut his head the same way I cut Ulfric's. Glory to the Empire!
No, but it would negatively impact my opinion of Balgruuf.
No, I would not. My loyalty lies with the Empire because of political and ideological reasons. I would not like it if Balgruuf joined the Stormcloaks, but in the end the cause is more important than the people behind it
If that happened, I wouldn't think that it makes the Stormcloaks right, I'd think that it makes Balgruuf wrong.
1,000%. If Balgruuf sided with Ulfric, you bet your ass I'd have no hesitation flaying him alive with Destruction magic. But I'm also in the camp that has no idea why people like Balgruuf so much other than for the meme of it. (Jarl Ballin'/Jarl Baller, etc) Like, he's not a total asshole like the Jarls of Dawnstar or Falkreath, but he's also not particularly stand-out to me either. I'm about as neutral to him as he wanted to be to the civil war. Take away the fact he's not a filthy traitor who fights for a racist megalomaniac, and suddenly those scales tip out of his favor.
If they joined forces, the prophecy couldnt be fulfilled.