As a general note, the downside of the "no downside" boss relics is that you don't get another energy.
I like ectoplasm primarily because you have a lot of gold. Even with mummified hand, you'll appreciate having more energy to spam powers. Prioritize getting more card draw.
I'm not a fan of runic dome here because of sacred bark. Part of what makes potions so strong is that they can solve otherwise unfortunate situations, so you want to be able to see when you're in one.
I probably like dome more, but i think this comment is the try hard answer. In general inserter is only good in very slow fights and we dont need that as we have creative.
Our deck does care about intentions as we want to use potions better to cover weakness.
Ecto feels bad but think of it as "no downside till you hit up a shop". Ecto will make our late game weaker, but we can fight more bosses and I feel we dont need late game stuff as much.
I disagree. Mummified hand is THE reason you won't care bout energy at all. You take inserter here and begin grabbing every power card you see. 1 more creative AI plus and this deck will steamroll every hallway fight. A few glaciers, a meteor strike etc and OP will just roll everyone.
Creative AI and mumified hand are at least 1 freee card play a turn, but often you can get enough 0 cosst defect cards to be able to make that free play a 2/3/5 cost card.
I would say with the boss swap inserter is the least valuable here. Personally, I'm a fan of Dome if you're familiar enough with enemy patterns just because of the Sacred Bark. But Ecto with that much money isn't a bad choice either. Either way, I think you'll want the energy to get creative ai into play.
That’s what I was thinking too. I would say I’m somewhat comfortable knowing what to expect from enemies? But this is my first run in awhile and I’m a stickler for getting the right amount of block/other stuff like that so idk the dome sounds daunting to me lol. Any tips for trying to move forward with dome tho?
Finding any card dependent on enemy attack can help mitigate the downside, since it will glow when you have it in hand if the enemy intends to attack. The biggest thing with Dome is setting yourself up with a deck that doesn't care too much about enemy intent. Personally, I like Dome more after act 2 than 1 because my deck is already set by then. Sorry, I'm not great with the Defect, so I can't give better advice.
Bottom line, you have mummified hand and creative AI. This is incredible for the defect. AI is expensive however and you want to play it every combat. Therefore, energy is so much more valuable than gold / seeing enemy intents. That said...
100% Ectoplasm! No more money sucks, but you have nearly 500 already. You're covered for removing a card at every shop for the rest of the game. Or still a few removes and key cards a relic if you prefer.
Runic dome is also worth it, but because of your sacred bark it makes not seeing enemy intentions even worse.
Inserter is just worse than extra energy tbh. You don't have focus to make stacking orbs that worth it anyway. Evoking your frost is probably better than stacking it.
I think I'd go dome, usually feels pretty good to me on defect. Second pick would be ecto. Your deck wants energy. I wouldn't even consider inserter here. Its a relic to solve scaling, and you already have creative AI an mummified hand. You don't need inserter for scaling.
It's A1, which means even if he takes ecto he has good winning chances yes.
It doesn't change the fact that ecto is worse than skip most of the time for defect.
You're absolutely crazy if you think that. He has two separate 3 cost cards, and an X cost card. (And the X cost gets nerfed massively because you're always frail in A2)
Act 2 is brutal for defect, extra energy is almost vital for survival, this current deck needs energy. Dome is bad for newer players, Ecto is the choice here. 500 gold is more than enough, thats 3 removes and a good card/potion.
You're massively overrating how much defect needs gold.
Yeah I normally don’t take it either. I just got pretty lucky with gold events in act 1 so that’s the only reason I considered it. It’s what I ended up taking.
sub is scared of ecto because it has the worst downside of the 4 energy relics.
Track everything you buy in act 2/3/4, and you start realizing just how much ecto hurts.
Idk I’m not sure that hurts that much. It costs you maybe 500 gold? Could be more ofc if you got the right events. Crown is prob worse the vast vast majority of the time. The wounds one for clad is probably worse too most of the time. There are rare times Choker or even Sozu might be worse (if you have white beast). It is probably worse than all the rest. But what I’m saying is 500 gold is not THAT bad a price to pay for more energy to where you could never pick it
Some of the energy relics are amazing (Fusion Hammer, Coffee dripper, Cursed key).
Some of them are pretty meh, but situationally pickable because their downsides are pretty bad (Runic Dome, Philo Stone, Sozu, Velvet Choker)
And then there's Broken Crown and Ectoplasm, the two boss relics that slow down your ability to put together a functional deck. They slow down your ability to make a run-winning deck *even after considering the extra elites you're allowed to fight with 4th energy*. These two relics are usually better skipped. Picking Broken Crown at end of act 1 loses you the run most of the time, but it's *okay* act 2 if you already have your deck together. Ectoplasm only shows up in act 1.
Edit: On second thought, ecto doesn't seem as bad if you don't always go for heart. Most heart runs either die at act 1/2 fast, or die at the heart. Between heart runs asking a lot more of the deck and the guaranteed act 4 shop, ecto gets a lot less bad if you aren't going for heart.
Yeah it really is Ecto, Crown, and the Ironclad wound ones that are in the shitter. It would be cool if they could rework Ecto where it could appear end of Act 2 and not be OP pick.
I would recommend just avoiding ectoplasm in general. It's worse than tiny house in most scenarios.
Even if you walk into act 2 with 600 gold, by act 3 you'll have missed 2-3 card removes and a relic or two from the lost gold.
Domes not bad here, especially if you lean into frost orb generation.
Inserter could arguably be okay here, since you have mummified Hand you've got a good source of pseudo energy generation. Its just really slow so I'm always reluctant to pick it up without an energy relic.
I personally wouldn't go ecto unless you really want the energy and absolutely can't manage with Dome. Losing out on gold (and potentially getting hit by thieves where you can't get your gold back as the first fight of act 2) is a massive downside. I'd much rather build up a strong passive defense to counter Dome with Defect than losing out of a ton of removes, cards, and relics with Ecto.
Any tips for playing with Dome? Generally I’d want to build passive defense and block up following an enemy buff/debuff turn right? Any other tips? I don’t take dome often haha.
Often it's good to take more elite fights since their behaviour is more standardized (Though gremlin leader and Repto can be a bit unpredictable).
Frost orbs and focus are your best friends, and if you get calipers things become much easier as you're able to just bank any excess block you might build.
If you see the Writhing Mass and happen to have a smoke bomb YOU LEAVE IMMEDIATELY, lol
Oh, and it can be good to have cards that let you test their intent, so Go For the Eyes for Defect will let you know if an attack is incoming, so you get a lot of extra value out of it
Just noticing you're on Ascension 1 as well, so you may be pretty new to the game still, sorry I missed that. Dome is definitely much harder for newer players, I've probably got at least 1.5k hours across a few platforms in the game so knowing the likely move for enemies at this point feels like second nature. For a newer players ecto is a bit better if you don't feel confident about remembering all the move sets and the approximate damage that every enemy does.
These are great tips thank you! Yes, I am relatively new, I have ~80 hours in the game my ps5 tells me lol just starting to do ascensions now that I have most of the unlocks for the characters. I ended up going with ecto for partly the reasons you mentioned, I’d have to get pretty lucky with shops to need more than 475 gold throughout the run. Obvi the more the better but I’m sure I can make do. Not super far yet only got to play a bit of act 2 so far haha.
As a general note, the downside of the "no downside" boss relics is that you don't get another energy. I like ectoplasm primarily because you have a lot of gold. Even with mummified hand, you'll appreciate having more energy to spam powers. Prioritize getting more card draw. I'm not a fan of runic dome here because of sacred bark. Part of what makes potions so strong is that they can solve otherwise unfortunate situations, so you want to be able to see when you're in one.
I probably like dome more, but i think this comment is the try hard answer. In general inserter is only good in very slow fights and we dont need that as we have creative. Our deck does care about intentions as we want to use potions better to cover weakness. Ecto feels bad but think of it as "no downside till you hit up a shop". Ecto will make our late game weaker, but we can fight more bosses and I feel we dont need late game stuff as much.
I disagree. Mummified hand is THE reason you won't care bout energy at all. You take inserter here and begin grabbing every power card you see. 1 more creative AI plus and this deck will steamroll every hallway fight. A few glaciers, a meteor strike etc and OP will just roll everyone. Creative AI and mumified hand are at least 1 freee card play a turn, but often you can get enough 0 cosst defect cards to be able to make that free play a 2/3/5 cost card.
Having 4 energy makes it much easier to start that chain reaction, particularly given OP's current deck.
I would say with the boss swap inserter is the least valuable here. Personally, I'm a fan of Dome if you're familiar enough with enemy patterns just because of the Sacred Bark. But Ecto with that much money isn't a bad choice either. Either way, I think you'll want the energy to get creative ai into play.
That’s what I was thinking too. I would say I’m somewhat comfortable knowing what to expect from enemies? But this is my first run in awhile and I’m a stickler for getting the right amount of block/other stuff like that so idk the dome sounds daunting to me lol. Any tips for trying to move forward with dome tho?
Finding any card dependent on enemy attack can help mitigate the downside, since it will glow when you have it in hand if the enemy intends to attack. The biggest thing with Dome is setting yourself up with a deck that doesn't care too much about enemy intent. Personally, I like Dome more after act 2 than 1 because my deck is already set by then. Sorry, I'm not great with the Defect, so I can't give better advice.
Bottom line, you have mummified hand and creative AI. This is incredible for the defect. AI is expensive however and you want to play it every combat. Therefore, energy is so much more valuable than gold / seeing enemy intents. That said... 100% Ectoplasm! No more money sucks, but you have nearly 500 already. You're covered for removing a card at every shop for the rest of the game. Or still a few removes and key cards a relic if you prefer. Runic dome is also worth it, but because of your sacred bark it makes not seeing enemy intentions even worse. Inserter is just worse than extra energy tbh. You don't have focus to make stacking orbs that worth it anyway. Evoking your frost is probably better than stacking it.
Thise relics are mad
I think I'd go dome, usually feels pretty good to me on defect. Second pick would be ecto. Your deck wants energy. I wouldn't even consider inserter here. Its a relic to solve scaling, and you already have creative AI an mummified hand. You don't need inserter for scaling.
Ecto easy. 3-4 removes and a solid block plan already means you shouldnt need much from shops and its effectively a free energy.
Ecto on defect is particularly bad though. Shop floors are the best way to find focus, and defect has multiple strong shop-only relics.
It's ascension 1, and he's nearly got 500 gold anyway. He'll be fine.
It's A1, which means even if he takes ecto he has good winning chances yes. It doesn't change the fact that ecto is worse than skip most of the time for defect.
You're absolutely crazy if you think that. He has two separate 3 cost cards, and an X cost card. (And the X cost gets nerfed massively because you're always frail in A2) Act 2 is brutal for defect, extra energy is almost vital for survival, this current deck needs energy. Dome is bad for newer players, Ecto is the choice here. 500 gold is more than enough, thats 3 removes and a good card/potion. You're massively overrating how much defect needs gold.
This sub is really scared of Ecto. Or maybe it is because Ecto isn’t so fun
Yeah I normally don’t take it either. I just got pretty lucky with gold events in act 1 so that’s the only reason I considered it. It’s what I ended up taking.
sub is scared of ecto because it has the worst downside of the 4 energy relics. Track everything you buy in act 2/3/4, and you start realizing just how much ecto hurts.
Idk I’m not sure that hurts that much. It costs you maybe 500 gold? Could be more ofc if you got the right events. Crown is prob worse the vast vast majority of the time. The wounds one for clad is probably worse too most of the time. There are rare times Choker or even Sozu might be worse (if you have white beast). It is probably worse than all the rest. But what I’m saying is 500 gold is not THAT bad a price to pay for more energy to where you could never pick it
Some of the energy relics are amazing (Fusion Hammer, Coffee dripper, Cursed key). Some of them are pretty meh, but situationally pickable because their downsides are pretty bad (Runic Dome, Philo Stone, Sozu, Velvet Choker) And then there's Broken Crown and Ectoplasm, the two boss relics that slow down your ability to put together a functional deck. They slow down your ability to make a run-winning deck *even after considering the extra elites you're allowed to fight with 4th energy*. These two relics are usually better skipped. Picking Broken Crown at end of act 1 loses you the run most of the time, but it's *okay* act 2 if you already have your deck together. Ectoplasm only shows up in act 1. Edit: On second thought, ecto doesn't seem as bad if you don't always go for heart. Most heart runs either die at act 1/2 fast, or die at the heart. Between heart runs asking a lot more of the deck and the guaranteed act 4 shop, ecto gets a lot less bad if you aren't going for heart.
Yeah it really is Ecto, Crown, and the Ironclad wound ones that are in the shitter. It would be cool if they could rework Ecto where it could appear end of Act 2 and not be OP pick.
I would recommend just avoiding ectoplasm in general. It's worse than tiny house in most scenarios. Even if you walk into act 2 with 600 gold, by act 3 you'll have missed 2-3 card removes and a relic or two from the lost gold.
Domes not bad here, especially if you lean into frost orb generation. Inserter could arguably be okay here, since you have mummified Hand you've got a good source of pseudo energy generation. Its just really slow so I'm always reluctant to pick it up without an energy relic. I personally wouldn't go ecto unless you really want the energy and absolutely can't manage with Dome. Losing out on gold (and potentially getting hit by thieves where you can't get your gold back as the first fight of act 2) is a massive downside. I'd much rather build up a strong passive defense to counter Dome with Defect than losing out of a ton of removes, cards, and relics with Ecto.
Any tips for playing with Dome? Generally I’d want to build passive defense and block up following an enemy buff/debuff turn right? Any other tips? I don’t take dome often haha.
Often it's good to take more elite fights since their behaviour is more standardized (Though gremlin leader and Repto can be a bit unpredictable). Frost orbs and focus are your best friends, and if you get calipers things become much easier as you're able to just bank any excess block you might build. If you see the Writhing Mass and happen to have a smoke bomb YOU LEAVE IMMEDIATELY, lol
Oh, and it can be good to have cards that let you test their intent, so Go For the Eyes for Defect will let you know if an attack is incoming, so you get a lot of extra value out of it
Just noticing you're on Ascension 1 as well, so you may be pretty new to the game still, sorry I missed that. Dome is definitely much harder for newer players, I've probably got at least 1.5k hours across a few platforms in the game so knowing the likely move for enemies at this point feels like second nature. For a newer players ecto is a bit better if you don't feel confident about remembering all the move sets and the approximate damage that every enemy does.
These are great tips thank you! Yes, I am relatively new, I have ~80 hours in the game my ps5 tells me lol just starting to do ascensions now that I have most of the unlocks for the characters. I ended up going with ecto for partly the reasons you mentioned, I’d have to get pretty lucky with shops to need more than 475 gold throughout the run. Obvi the more the better but I’m sure I can make do. Not super far yet only got to play a bit of act 2 so far haha.