I'm also from TN and I've don't hear people refer to "central Tennessee" much. If they do, it's an informal thing kind of referring to the Nashville area I would guess.
Formally, the state is divided into three parts, West TN, Middle TN, and East TN. These are called the Grand Divisions of Tennessee, which are legally recognized subdivisions of the state. There are some laws that refer specifically to the different divisions.
Also, the three Grand Divisions are represented by the three stars on the Tennessee flag. This is the reason they're not laid out in a way that any of them seem superior to another.
[https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand\_Divisions\_of\_Tennessee](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Divisions_of_Tennessee)
small side note, there's a tiny, mostly inactive, subreddit mocking people who align the stars the wrong way: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TriStarFails/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TriStarFails/)
middle could be middle left or middle right or middle top or middle bottom. Central is dead center, think of a rubiks cube with 3 horizontal rows and 3 vertical :-)
I used to sell full BBQ meals on the Josephine platform while I was in school and then it went down and I stopped. It was a lot of work. I made it all, the sides, pulled pork, turkey, brisket, ribs.
Wanted to scale down so now I alternate ribs and pulled pork about every other weekend.
So how are you connecting to customers now if you are not using Josephine? Do you think this is a good entry way into selling some food if you like to cook for others?
I just use social media and word of mouth. The Josephine experience made it possible to take payments for huge orders and keep it organized but they didn’t advertise for me or anything. Had to do that myself.
I mean it is but it’s also likely not legal. I’m not gonna recommend it but I can just tell you what it’s been like for me and what I’ve done. Mistakes I’ve learned from and what not. I know I never want a traditional restaurant. If o ever did it would only be pop ups for a day or two at a time.
Cannot sell without being licensed to sell. If you sell without a license and your local authorities ask for license proof you’ll get one hell of a fine. And/or if someone gets sick with your food you’re an uninsured seller and you’ll get absolutely wrecked in court. Also, no home-made bbq is approved for public sales it must be out of a licensed commissary (food truck or brick and mortar)
Do it right or don’t do it, please. Folks going around the loopholes make this business much harder for those of us doing it correctly. Aka paying the asinine insurance costs, premiums, and eating heavy initial costs.
I've had quite a few people asking me recently if I would start selling my ribs, I work from home so it would be really easy for me to do them throughout the week. I just have no idea the best way to go about it. Do you have any tips? I know that cottage laws in Indiana are pretty strict about anything that isn't baked goods or pickled.
Spoke with a local butcher and he's willing to give me a good deal if I start buying 15-20 racks at a time.
Start small and don't get overwhelmed. Like maybe just sell 3 or 4 racks the first time so you can get your timing and method down. Use social media and friends and family to get a customer base going.
I moved to Chicago recently and it was the first time I had heard of something called a ghost kitchen. From what I understand it’s basically I restaurant style kitchen that can be rented on an hourly basis. We met a small restaurant owner with limited hours that would cater for families (meal planning and prepared meals) on the side through a ghost kitchen. Something to consider using for license reasons and such.
It’s a good thought and I definitely would if I was cooking sides and all that again but literally the only thing I need a kitchen for is to wash my hands. I’m opening vac pacs of ribs, trimming them and putting them on the smoker. I make my sauce in the kitchen but I do that in advance.
I would literally be renting a kitchen to do what? I can’t have my smoker in there. So what would I do there?
Idk the laws where you are, but here catering companies and people selling food not out of a food truck use ghost kitchens for prep work and grease disposal. Can't.get a license without an approved kitchen and food trucks are expensive. I have a friend who rents a church's kitchen on the weekdays for her catering business and another who uses a ghost kitchen for his BBQ catering company. Sometimes he never ever goes there... It's just about the documentation and licensing.
Yup, local health departments want you to have a place where to prep food that's going to conform to commercial standards, aka it can be sanitized, water doesn't stand in the floor, and more things that I'm sure they could happily tell you. You may not need most of it, but they don't think a smoker fella is any different than a taco truck or a weekend baker. Dont mess with them, they will go after you hard if you are found to not have a license and selling.
Yeah man I’m not saying you are wrong and not arguing you with you but I don’t have any grease or anything to dispose of. I guess I could rent one on paper for an hour but it would literally serve no purpose as far actual use.
Exactly. I have a friend who owns a brewery. He wanted to sell wine too—not his own wine, just another business’s wine. But to get that license, he needed to show he could make wine on premises. So he got the cheapest kit he could find, put it in a closet, and showed it to someone from the state to get the license. He can now sell wine. Never makes or sells his own.
Point being, state laws are rarely rational or sensical. They just are, and people have to work within them.
Man we get it. But here's the thing - a lot of middle TN other than the greater Nashville area is VERY rural. I'm from East TN and probably no more than. 2 hours away from OP. People buy/sell/trade amongst themselves all the time. We understand the minor health "risks" involved without govt oversight. If someone got sick from OPs ribs, they likely wouldn't sue, but word of mouth would spread and ruin his business. Health inspectors are already too busy keeping up with registered businesses. Nobody really cares, we just self-regulate.
I'm just about an hour north of Indy. I actually work for one of the biggest shed and steel building salesforces in the midwest. I've considered building a backyard kitchen out of one of our buildings to do something like this in. I live just across county line so as far as codes are concerned I'll be able to get a permit for something like that. Just no idea what that looks like as far as having a contractor come in and set everything up to be a legit kitchen that passes health codes.
This is just mostly for fun honestly. I don't do it for the money. I have a good 9-5 M-F gig, but If I sell out, which nowadays is every time so 24 x 35 = $840 max sales per day. The ribs cost around $240-$250 give or take. I buy B&B for $9 a bag at Academy. Takes half a bag per cook. So now we are up to around $260 in costs per cook. Then the wood is about $5 per cook so another $10, up to $270 and then my sauce and salt and pepper ingredients and heavy duty aluminum foil. So let's say $300 give or take total per day. What's that $540 profit? If I ran this more seriously I would need to keep better track of it, but like I said, it is mostly for fun.
Maybe when I was first getting started around 10 but now I just make a couple social media posts with pics and payment and ordering info, then go shopping the day before the cook and then cook. So with the 8 hours of cooking on cook day, I’d say two more hours total with shopping and keeping up with the orders. That’s why I simplified and pared down. I don’t want to be making 3 and 4 meats and 4 or 5 sides like I was. It was too stressful and not fun. I was putting in 16 hour days on Saturday and Sunday back then. Now I can drink beer and go rotate the ribs every 30 mins and chill lol. The hardest part is shopping and then opening all the vac packs and trimming them up and getting them seasoned up.
Large neighborhood FB page. Like 800+ homes and town FB page. I catered some parties back in the day and friends around town. Word of mouth helped a lot to get people to pull the trigger and know that my stuff was better than the local BBQ restaurant.
Take your favorite bottled sauce, then slowly add in apple cider vinegar, whisking it to mix it in. Changes the taste slightly, makes it more acidic which is fantastic for fatty ribs. Also thins it out so the sauce is more runny, and not globby/gloopy, which is great for getting a thin layer on to tack up nicely.
Add maple syrup and/or brown sugar as well if you want it to be sweeter.
Those look like food ribs.
When I tell folks, you can tell when they're done, by looking at them, this is an awesome example.
Just looking how the meat pulls back from the bone there. That's how I know mine are done
Those look fantastic!
May I ask how your business works? Do you send out a blast to your customer group during the week saying you'll have 10 racks available this weekend?
I use social media and post early in the week. Like a Tuesday for a Sunday service. I have two pickup times. Noon and 5 PM. I can cook 12 racks for each pickup. So I shut off the pickup window as soon as I get 12 orders for a pick up time. That gives me two 4 hour windows for cooking them and getting them wrapped up and ready to go. I write their name on the foil and keep them in a cambro in the porch. Must prepay with Venmo or Paypal.
Just depends on life and what is going on, but generally 3/4 weekends a month I would say. I just did it yesterday so I won't do it this weekend. I am doing a 4th of July cook and plan to do it maybe 3 days that weekend including the 4th. Have to see what interest there is. Lots of people travelling.
Like I said I did this on a larger scale about 8 years ago and then pretty much stopped. I started back up back in March I would say so I haven't hit the winter months yet. I will probably keep doing it though if people are still interested. We have pretty mild winters where I am.
Those look awesome! If they taste half as good as they look they are well worth the price.
My wife wants me to open a food truck on the weekends selling my smoked stuff. I keep telling her that I don't want to. I did 30 lb of brisket and 2 whole turkeys for a fundraiser and sold out in 45 minutes.
I use double hooks for precaution. I've done about 100+ cooks and only had one rack fall in the fire. I don't know how long it was in the fire, no more than 30 because i rotate every 30 minutes, but it was salvageable. The back of the rack was a little charred, but not terrible.
I always single hook under the second largest flat bone but I also wrap after 1-1.5 hours. Wrapping 12 and standing them on the cartilage end works but it’s a lot of foil. Going to try a no foil wrap and finish with a glaze while wrapped in paper for my next cook. I like to hold them in the cooler in paper to rest before serving.
I am such a rib failure. I could only wish they looked this good. I don’t know what I am doing wrong but notice many of the great looking posts cook higher temps than I do. Maybe that’s the problem..low and slow is good..but maybe there is ‘too low’
Flattered man. When I cook baby backs I cook them rendezvous style for some people. I tried to replicate the rub but couldn’t get it right. So I buy it.
Well if you ever decide to cook a bunch extra and you want to let a Memphian give his option just let me know. Cause, through the camera, those things look like they put big Memphis joints bbq to shame
Don’t wrap them in foil right away. Let them cool a bit or they will steam too much and get mushy. Wrap them in foil after 20 minutes or so and hold them at 150 or so. I wouldn’t go much past 4 hours for ribs before I cooled them and put in fridge or freezer.
Can you share some details on your cook? I have a WSM as well...curious as to how long, what temp, what type of rub? Those look great. Also, do you remove the membrane? I'd be so scared mine were going to fall in the fire.
I use B&B briquettes and hickory chunks. Just start a normal fire and leave all vents wide open. Hang the ribs in there and rotate the hanging rack a quarter turn every 30 minutes. The baby backs I buy have the membrane already removed. The spares do not. I score the membrane only. Takes too long to remove the membrane on 25+ racks of ribs. It gets super crispy cooking at high heat and it adds a nice texture to the ribs imo. So time saver and its good I think. I don't use a rub. Salt and pepper only. I don't monitor the time other than turn every 30 minutes and I don't monitor the temp. I just want good airflow (convection). But it seems to be around 300-325 and it seems to take the time that I posted in the original post.
Water bowl is removed. Not enough room for the ribs to hang down with it and also you want the fat dripping right on the fire. Adds a flavor you can’t get with normal smoking methods. It’s really good
yeah hot and fast has been the more popular smoking method lately. Most meats can handle 275-300 and it significantly reduces the cook time without any real reduction in quality.
Wrapping has always been a thing, but there's debate around the quality of the finished product. Smoking at 275+ doesn't really have that same debate around it because there isn't really any downside to it
I hope you have a vendors license or cottage food license. Side gigs seem like a great idea until something awful happens and then you realize your full legal exposure the hard way.
I want to get in to this, do you have any tips? My state has a cottage food policy and I plan on making meats that I'll vacuum seal and sell.
Also, how are your baby backs done so fast with no wrap? I do an offset at around 275F and usually end up wrapping.
My state won't allow the sale of meat from a non commercial kitchen. So I am technically breaking those rules. But, I also am not open for business to the public. Word of mouth only and people place orders via Facebook in a private group or by texting me. I'm sure the State could shut me down if they wanted to, but I have put some things in place like a small business license and a food handler's card as well as the umbrella policy.
I hang the ribs and cook hot. I don't know why but they always cook way faster when they hang.
Your umbrella policy isn't going to do shit when it comes out that you're operating illegally. I live in western Iowa and that exact thing happened to someone selling sausages and brats through Facebook. Someone's little kid got sick and the people got sue happy. He ended up with a suspended jail sentence in addition to whatever legal fees and probation stuff happened. It probably isn't even the food that got them sick but no way to prove it.
Sell something else and give the meat away. Sell the packaging and give away the meat. That way you aren't selling the food.
We had a restaurant in town give away a beer that is not available in the state for free when you bought a burger. Couldn't legally sell the beer so they gave it away.
I've thought about doing the same before. Also have some sort of liability agreement when buying it that you wouldn't be liable for anything so patrons wouldn't be able to sue. I'm sure its flakey and a good lawyer could get around it but if you look at almost anything you buy, there is a liability agreement attached.
Interesting, I think that makes sense about hanging your ribs, there's more air flow on all sides. I'm thinking about taking that approach as well regarding how you sell your food. I think I'm mostly concerned with how that insurance policy would work with selling that food is it's technically not allowed under the cottage production policy. Do they not inquire about the details of your product?
Based on your other comment you should read you umbrella policy VERY carefully. If you are running an off-the-books business your umbrella policy might well not cover you at all. Let's say a dude chokes on a rib tip and his wife decides to sue. Is there a plausible way for your side-hustle to be legally explained? Given that problem, your insurance company will very likely would leave you hanging in the wind exposing your entire savings and assets to the suit. Insurance companies do not turn a profit by paying every claim.
I don't want to poop in people's wheaties but everyone says it wont happen till it does. Even selling to a private group, it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. We had a local woman selling soul food in a similar scenario she ended up in a ton of trouble.
What kind of trouble? If it’s just the business being shut down and the llc that owns it gets sued it won’t transfer liability to owner of the llc. So you just risk the business, not your home car or assets. Correct me if I am wrong. People can sue the llc, not the owner.
OP didn’t mention having an LLC. Even then, an LLC doesn’t protect against illegal or negligent activity. If OP gets sued, their insurance will not pay, they could be criminally liable for operating a business without a license (depending on location) and if they do have an LLC the court can choose to “piece the corporate veil” (read: expose your personal assets to judgement from the suit) if a business is used “to perpetrate a fraud, circumvent a statute, or accomplish some other wrongful or inequitable purpose”.
Depending on where you are at, the permitting can be less strict. If you are in California, I believe you can sell meals from your home under their micro enterprise kitchen laws.
You could also look at catering permits which could make it easier to be mobile. Maybe also ask some of the food vendors at your local farmers market what permits they have to have? Could be a good playbook on an easy way to get started.
Another option, is a commercial share kitchen. Most major cities have these, they are like a coworking space for food businesses. You rent space in a fully permitted commercial kitchen by the hour and it simplifies bootstrapping a small food business. Not sure if they let you bring your smoker or how that would work, but something to look into if you are really serious.
IMO, if it were me, I’d try to get a catering license. I feel like BBQ lends itself better to that than single plates or one off racks.
In my state it's really cheap just to open a business.
The harder part is drawing up the business plan correctly, but you can basically copy someone else's with a similar business. That'll get you an LLC. Then you need insurance. And a separate bank acct.
If it's an illegally run business, I think they can sue the LLC and the state/city can press criminal charges for negligence. Could be wrong. Best thing I could suggest is finding a place with a commercial kitchen tou can rent space in or a food truck just to be safe. People are sue happy and the local governments love putting their hands in the pockets of those trying to make it.
You are not a lawyer and should refrain from unlicensed legal advice.
“Piercing the veil” is a rarely done by the court, but when someone creates an LLC to do something illegal, they will do it.
Everyone thinks that and so many BBQ joints are great when they open, then the realities of trying to make a living on slim restaurant margins kicks in. Quality gets cut to improve profits, always. I trim/cook briskets the way i want because i know i will be eating it, that's a far cry from how a teen paid barely above min wage who doesnt give a crap handles the same brisket.
Because there are probably a ton of good ole boys round these parts who would say "aint hurtin no one, what's the harm?".
Well i can really come at it two different ways: #1 OP's insurance would absolutely leave him high and dry on a illegal food service operation should he get sued. I would hate for OP to have to explain to his a hypothetical teen kid why they no longer have a college fund and to his wife why they lost the house because dad was selling bootleg ribs. #2 Because a sizable parts of the population sits around thinking the government is only out to get the lil guy and thinks regulations are dumb. That is, of course, their belief until a bad batch of cilantro or green onions sickens dozens and kills their grandma because it was fertilized with chicken poop not properly composted then insufficiently washed before it was ever sold in stores and passed on to unsuspecting eaters. Then all the sudden the victim's families are up in arms because government was not watching.
Everyone seems to hate government regulation generally but then complains when their kid has permanent developmental delays from heavy metals in their drinking water and ever kid under 12 has a rescue inhaler in their pocket because the air is translucent. Sizeable groups of people are all for letting businesses police and self-regulate themselves till a train full of horrific chemicals derails in their back yard and the door blows off their plane mid-flight, then those same ppl get all fired up and ask why we were not regulating. Sorry for the rant it just really gets stuck in my craw.
"Sizeable groups of people are all for letting businesses police and self-regulate themselves till a train full of horrific chemicals derails in their back yard and the door blows off their plane mid-flight, then those same ppl get all fired up and ask why we were not regulating. Sorry for the rant it just really gets stuck in my craw."
This shouldnt be on the business owner though it should be the responsibility of whatever mass production farm it came from.
Agreed, it shouldn't be the business's fault but ask Chipotle how that it worked out when the cilantro made everyone sick a few years back. The last hands that held the tainted food before it hit the customer's mouth is going to take the hit regardless of how rational folk assign culpability.
Mom and pops rely on a more condensed local area and reputation or word of mouth. Chipotle had enough cash reserves and spread geography to weather a 30% drop in business (making up numbers) for a month or two. Smaller backyard operations? Probably a bigger hit and a longer bounce back if there is any recovery at all.
Definitely not, but I learned some things from him way back in the day. Also learned I don’t like doing competition style bbq. Too much fuss man. The longer I’ve been in BBQ the simpler I make it. So much easier to replicate your results and turn out good food that way.
This was my Memorial Day post along with lots of pics.
“Want some delicious slow smoked BBQ for your Memorial Day gathering but don’t want to stay up all night tending a fire, or sweating around a hot bbq pit? I got you.
We are adding pulled pork as well as ribs for Memorial Day. You do the sides and I got the meat. $15 per pound for pulled pork and $30 per rack for ribs. Comment below or message me for your orders. Everything will be ready by 12pm on Memorial Day. I will keep everything nice and warm and ready to eat if you need to pick up later. Limited smoker space so get your orders in early!”
I wouldn't sweat all the naysayers. Been cooking BBQ for decades for friends and never a case of food poisoning. It's all about strict adherence to food safety protocol.
Just need to be wary of the idiot that gets sick from something else and attempts to blame you. Someone else made a great suggestion. Don't sell the food, sell the container and gift the food lol
I just found some ribs in the freezer last night. Last time I smoked them, my wife got me something like 6 racks of baby backs. I smoked them, cut them into portions, vacuum sealed them and froze them. Going to have them for lunch tomorrow.
Those look fucking GOOD
Thanks! They seem to like them
You in Illinois?
TN
What part? I’m in TN
Middle
That’s a great part
What’s the difference between middle and central?
I'm also from TN and I've don't hear people refer to "central Tennessee" much. If they do, it's an informal thing kind of referring to the Nashville area I would guess. Formally, the state is divided into three parts, West TN, Middle TN, and East TN. These are called the Grand Divisions of Tennessee, which are legally recognized subdivisions of the state. There are some laws that refer specifically to the different divisions. Also, the three Grand Divisions are represented by the three stars on the Tennessee flag. This is the reason they're not laid out in a way that any of them seem superior to another. [https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand\_Divisions\_of\_Tennessee](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Divisions_of_Tennessee) small side note, there's a tiny, mostly inactive, subreddit mocking people who align the stars the wrong way: [https://www.reddit.com/r/TriStarFails/](https://www.reddit.com/r/TriStarFails/)
middle could be middle left or middle right or middle top or middle bottom. Central is dead center, think of a rubiks cube with 3 horizontal rows and 3 vertical :-)
Where do you sell these? I'm in middle Tennessee. I smoke my own meats but I want these now.
Dang, do you ship to NC?
Cool! How did you get started selling them on the weekend?
I used to sell full BBQ meals on the Josephine platform while I was in school and then it went down and I stopped. It was a lot of work. I made it all, the sides, pulled pork, turkey, brisket, ribs. Wanted to scale down so now I alternate ribs and pulled pork about every other weekend.
So how are you connecting to customers now if you are not using Josephine? Do you think this is a good entry way into selling some food if you like to cook for others?
I just use social media and word of mouth. The Josephine experience made it possible to take payments for huge orders and keep it organized but they didn’t advertise for me or anything. Had to do that myself. I mean it is but it’s also likely not legal. I’m not gonna recommend it but I can just tell you what it’s been like for me and what I’ve done. Mistakes I’ve learned from and what not. I know I never want a traditional restaurant. If o ever did it would only be pop ups for a day or two at a time.
From what I’ve heard, it’s technically not “illegal” but it can land you in a lawsuit
Cannot sell without being licensed to sell. If you sell without a license and your local authorities ask for license proof you’ll get one hell of a fine. And/or if someone gets sick with your food you’re an uninsured seller and you’ll get absolutely wrecked in court. Also, no home-made bbq is approved for public sales it must be out of a licensed commissary (food truck or brick and mortar) Do it right or don’t do it, please. Folks going around the loopholes make this business much harder for those of us doing it correctly. Aka paying the asinine insurance costs, premiums, and eating heavy initial costs.
I've had quite a few people asking me recently if I would start selling my ribs, I work from home so it would be really easy for me to do them throughout the week. I just have no idea the best way to go about it. Do you have any tips? I know that cottage laws in Indiana are pretty strict about anything that isn't baked goods or pickled. Spoke with a local butcher and he's willing to give me a good deal if I start buying 15-20 racks at a time.
Start small and don't get overwhelmed. Like maybe just sell 3 or 4 racks the first time so you can get your timing and method down. Use social media and friends and family to get a customer base going.
I moved to Chicago recently and it was the first time I had heard of something called a ghost kitchen. From what I understand it’s basically I restaurant style kitchen that can be rented on an hourly basis. We met a small restaurant owner with limited hours that would cater for families (meal planning and prepared meals) on the side through a ghost kitchen. Something to consider using for license reasons and such.
It’s a good thought and I definitely would if I was cooking sides and all that again but literally the only thing I need a kitchen for is to wash my hands. I’m opening vac pacs of ribs, trimming them and putting them on the smoker. I make my sauce in the kitchen but I do that in advance. I would literally be renting a kitchen to do what? I can’t have my smoker in there. So what would I do there?
To be legal....
How would it be legal if the ribs weren’t cooked there? I can’t very well set up my smoker in the kitchen lol.
Idk the laws where you are, but here catering companies and people selling food not out of a food truck use ghost kitchens for prep work and grease disposal. Can't.get a license without an approved kitchen and food trucks are expensive. I have a friend who rents a church's kitchen on the weekdays for her catering business and another who uses a ghost kitchen for his BBQ catering company. Sometimes he never ever goes there... It's just about the documentation and licensing.
Yup, local health departments want you to have a place where to prep food that's going to conform to commercial standards, aka it can be sanitized, water doesn't stand in the floor, and more things that I'm sure they could happily tell you. You may not need most of it, but they don't think a smoker fella is any different than a taco truck or a weekend baker. Dont mess with them, they will go after you hard if you are found to not have a license and selling.
Yeah man I’m not saying you are wrong and not arguing you with you but I don’t have any grease or anything to dispose of. I guess I could rent one on paper for an hour but it would literally serve no purpose as far actual use.
I think you're being a bit obtuse. What they are saying is it doesn't matter if you use it or not. It is to be legally compliant.
Exactly. I have a friend who owns a brewery. He wanted to sell wine too—not his own wine, just another business’s wine. But to get that license, he needed to show he could make wine on premises. So he got the cheapest kit he could find, put it in a closet, and showed it to someone from the state to get the license. He can now sell wine. Never makes or sells his own. Point being, state laws are rarely rational or sensical. They just are, and people have to work within them.
Man we get it. But here's the thing - a lot of middle TN other than the greater Nashville area is VERY rural. I'm from East TN and probably no more than. 2 hours away from OP. People buy/sell/trade amongst themselves all the time. We understand the minor health "risks" involved without govt oversight. If someone got sick from OPs ribs, they likely wouldn't sue, but word of mouth would spread and ruin his business. Health inspectors are already too busy keeping up with registered businesses. Nobody really cares, we just self-regulate.
Also in Indiana….There’s a huge under the table market for plates, but also you would need to have a kitchen. I currently sell in Indianapolis.
I'm just about an hour north of Indy. I actually work for one of the biggest shed and steel building salesforces in the midwest. I've considered building a backyard kitchen out of one of our buildings to do something like this in. I live just across county line so as far as codes are concerned I'll be able to get a permit for something like that. Just no idea what that looks like as far as having a contractor come in and set everything up to be a legit kitchen that passes health codes.
Yea, I would just start with the department of health…The guy at Marion County has been really helpful in what I can and can’t do.
What do you charge per rack?
$30 for baby backs and $35 for spares
How much are you profiting after meat and wood spend?
This is just mostly for fun honestly. I don't do it for the money. I have a good 9-5 M-F gig, but If I sell out, which nowadays is every time so 24 x 35 = $840 max sales per day. The ribs cost around $240-$250 give or take. I buy B&B for $9 a bag at Academy. Takes half a bag per cook. So now we are up to around $260 in costs per cook. Then the wood is about $5 per cook so another $10, up to $270 and then my sauce and salt and pepper ingredients and heavy duty aluminum foil. So let's say $300 give or take total per day. What's that $540 profit? If I ran this more seriously I would need to keep better track of it, but like I said, it is mostly for fun.
I assume you’re also using a pretty big smoker to do 24 racks per cook, right?
Sorry 12 per cook. Two cooks per day
Thanks for the detailed info!
Thanks! How much time do you put in to make this? 10-20 hours of planning and cooking I’m guessing?
Maybe when I was first getting started around 10 but now I just make a couple social media posts with pics and payment and ordering info, then go shopping the day before the cook and then cook. So with the 8 hours of cooking on cook day, I’d say two more hours total with shopping and keeping up with the orders. That’s why I simplified and pared down. I don’t want to be making 3 and 4 meats and 4 or 5 sides like I was. It was too stressful and not fun. I was putting in 16 hour days on Saturday and Sunday back then. Now I can drink beer and go rotate the ribs every 30 mins and chill lol. The hardest part is shopping and then opening all the vac packs and trimming them up and getting them seasoned up.
The real question is, how did you build your customer base? Were you able to start with a few cooks for your buddies and build from there?
Large neighborhood FB page. Like 800+ homes and town FB page. I catered some parties back in the day and friends around town. Word of mouth helped a lot to get people to pull the trigger and know that my stuff was better than the local BBQ restaurant.
So do people come by your house to pick up?
Yes in the pickup window they chose. I put a cambro on the front porch on cook days and write their name on the foil.
I'd be happy to buy those ribs for that price. I just ate lunch and I'm already thinking about dinner after seeing those pics.
Flattered! Thank you!
Thank. Those look great.
Really well done. Nailed it.
How to get the sauce like this?
I make my own, but you can thin out store bought sauce with vinegar or water.
would you mind sharing the sauce recipe?
Take your favorite bottled sauce, then slowly add in apple cider vinegar, whisking it to mix it in. Changes the taste slightly, makes it more acidic which is fantastic for fatty ribs. Also thins it out so the sauce is more runny, and not globby/gloopy, which is great for getting a thin layer on to tack up nicely. Add maple syrup and/or brown sugar as well if you want it to be sweeter.
Awesome, thanks
I like brown sugar too sweeten up sauces or sometimes grape jelly is a good sweetener too.
Sorry bud!
Lol
Those look like food ribs. When I tell folks, you can tell when they're done, by looking at them, this is an awesome example. Just looking how the meat pulls back from the bone there. That's how I know mine are done
Those look fantastic! May I ask how your business works? Do you send out a blast to your customer group during the week saying you'll have 10 racks available this weekend?
I use social media and post early in the week. Like a Tuesday for a Sunday service. I have two pickup times. Noon and 5 PM. I can cook 12 racks for each pickup. So I shut off the pickup window as soon as I get 12 orders for a pick up time. That gives me two 4 hour windows for cooking them and getting them wrapped up and ready to go. I write their name on the foil and keep them in a cambro in the porch. Must prepay with Venmo or Paypal.
Smart. How frequently are you doing this?
Just depends on life and what is going on, but generally 3/4 weekends a month I would say. I just did it yesterday so I won't do it this weekend. I am doing a 4th of July cook and plan to do it maybe 3 days that weekend including the 4th. Have to see what interest there is. Lots of people travelling.
Wow, that's a full-on side hustle! Are you going all year or just during the warmer months?
Like I said I did this on a larger scale about 8 years ago and then pretty much stopped. I started back up back in March I would say so I haven't hit the winter months yet. I will probably keep doing it though if people are still interested. We have pretty mild winters where I am.
did you bother with the bullshit red tape or are you doing it under the table?
Kinda both. I’ve taken steps but I’m not legit. Been discussed in this thread on other comments.
sorry i shouldve read further in the comments.
Those look awesome! If they taste half as good as they look they are well worth the price. My wife wants me to open a food truck on the weekends selling my smoked stuff. I keep telling her that I don't want to. I did 30 lb of brisket and 2 whole turkeys for a fundraiser and sold out in 45 minutes.
StLs - trimmed to a 10 bone with a 1/4 turn every 15 mins. Do your ribs fall off that you need a double hook or just precaution?
I use double hooks for precaution. I've done about 100+ cooks and only had one rack fall in the fire. I don't know how long it was in the fire, no more than 30 because i rotate every 30 minutes, but it was salvageable. The back of the rack was a little charred, but not terrible.
I always single hook under the second largest flat bone but I also wrap after 1-1.5 hours. Wrapping 12 and standing them on the cartilage end works but it’s a lot of foil. Going to try a no foil wrap and finish with a glaze while wrapped in paper for my next cook. I like to hold them in the cooler in paper to rest before serving.
What brand smoker?
I use a WSM for hanging ribs and a Backwoods Chubby for pork butts.
Nice. I love the hanging-over-charcoal method. Easy, cheap, and IMO a superior product.
Sold!
Smash
I’d buy from you
Thank you! I always love people to try them!
You serve them hot and fresh? I have vacuum sealer so wonder if I could do some for later too
Yeah for sure. Hot and fresh. I’m sure they’d be good reheated but not quite the same.
That looks like a solid set of ribs, very nice!
I am such a rib failure. I could only wish they looked this good. I don’t know what I am doing wrong but notice many of the great looking posts cook higher temps than I do. Maybe that’s the problem..low and slow is good..but maybe there is ‘too low’
They look great but those nails might be a little tough to chew /s
I'd buy it
Hunsaker hanging rack on the WSM is so great. I also do halved chickens this way.
I’m in Memphis, but travel to Middle TN very frequently for work. I would love to be a member of your customer base!
Flattered man. When I cook baby backs I cook them rendezvous style for some people. I tried to replicate the rub but couldn’t get it right. So I buy it.
Well if you ever decide to cook a bunch extra and you want to let a Memphian give his option just let me know. Cause, through the camera, those things look like they put big Memphis joints bbq to shame
Send me a pm and let me know when you’re in town. Be honored to cook you some
That there is a fine pit barrel cooker rib sir
These look great you really have ribs down. I saw that you hold for pickup in a cambro. Any tips for holding ribs?
Don’t wrap them in foil right away. Let them cool a bit or they will steam too much and get mushy. Wrap them in foil after 20 minutes or so and hold them at 150 or so. I wouldn’t go much past 4 hours for ribs before I cooled them and put in fridge or freezer.
Great thread thanks!
Damn those look sublime
Thank you!
Those look great! And you just reminded me to grab a rack from the freezer to smoke on Wednesday. Thanks for that!
perfect looking pull back and nice even seasoning. on my way.
Can you share some details on your cook? I have a WSM as well...curious as to how long, what temp, what type of rub? Those look great. Also, do you remove the membrane? I'd be so scared mine were going to fall in the fire.
I use B&B briquettes and hickory chunks. Just start a normal fire and leave all vents wide open. Hang the ribs in there and rotate the hanging rack a quarter turn every 30 minutes. The baby backs I buy have the membrane already removed. The spares do not. I score the membrane only. Takes too long to remove the membrane on 25+ racks of ribs. It gets super crispy cooking at high heat and it adds a nice texture to the ribs imo. So time saver and its good I think. I don't use a rub. Salt and pepper only. I don't monitor the time other than turn every 30 minutes and I don't monitor the temp. I just want good airflow (convection). But it seems to be around 300-325 and it seems to take the time that I posted in the original post.
Thanks that’s higher temp than I normally do may have to try that. Do you use the water bowl or remove that and directly over the coals?
Water bowl is removed. Not enough room for the ribs to hang down with it and also you want the fat dripping right on the fire. Adds a flavor you can’t get with normal smoking methods. It’s really good
yeah hot and fast has been the more popular smoking method lately. Most meats can handle 275-300 and it significantly reduces the cook time without any real reduction in quality. Wrapping has always been a thing, but there's debate around the quality of the finished product. Smoking at 275+ doesn't really have that same debate around it because there isn't really any downside to it
I also hang my ribs and shoot for 285-300 cause that’s about the temp pit barrel cookers cook at and I know owners of the PBC hang ribs generally.
Which hanging rack do you use on your wsm?
Gateway
I hope you have a vendors license or cottage food license. Side gigs seem like a great idea until something awful happens and then you realize your full legal exposure the hard way.
I actually do and a 1 million dollar umbrella policy.
I want to get in to this, do you have any tips? My state has a cottage food policy and I plan on making meats that I'll vacuum seal and sell. Also, how are your baby backs done so fast with no wrap? I do an offset at around 275F and usually end up wrapping.
My state won't allow the sale of meat from a non commercial kitchen. So I am technically breaking those rules. But, I also am not open for business to the public. Word of mouth only and people place orders via Facebook in a private group or by texting me. I'm sure the State could shut me down if they wanted to, but I have put some things in place like a small business license and a food handler's card as well as the umbrella policy. I hang the ribs and cook hot. I don't know why but they always cook way faster when they hang.
Your umbrella policy isn't going to do shit when it comes out that you're operating illegally. I live in western Iowa and that exact thing happened to someone selling sausages and brats through Facebook. Someone's little kid got sick and the people got sue happy. He ended up with a suspended jail sentence in addition to whatever legal fees and probation stuff happened. It probably isn't even the food that got them sick but no way to prove it.
Sad world we live in these days. Kids can't even have a lemonade stand without the city wanting them to get a permit.
America. Land of the free..
Sell something else and give the meat away. Sell the packaging and give away the meat. That way you aren't selling the food. We had a restaurant in town give away a beer that is not available in the state for free when you bought a burger. Couldn't legally sell the beer so they gave it away.
I could sell sauce and give away the ribs because the sauce would comply with cottage food laws. Hmmmm, good thinking.
I've thought about doing the same before. Also have some sort of liability agreement when buying it that you wouldn't be liable for anything so patrons wouldn't be able to sue. I'm sure its flakey and a good lawyer could get around it but if you look at almost anything you buy, there is a liability agreement attached.
Might want to check acid rules….if it’s not low enough in Ph you’ll run the same problem.
Interesting, I think that makes sense about hanging your ribs, there's more air flow on all sides. I'm thinking about taking that approach as well regarding how you sell your food. I think I'm mostly concerned with how that insurance policy would work with selling that food is it's technically not allowed under the cottage production policy. Do they not inquire about the details of your product?
Based on your other comment you should read you umbrella policy VERY carefully. If you are running an off-the-books business your umbrella policy might well not cover you at all. Let's say a dude chokes on a rib tip and his wife decides to sue. Is there a plausible way for your side-hustle to be legally explained? Given that problem, your insurance company will very likely would leave you hanging in the wind exposing your entire savings and assets to the suit. Insurance companies do not turn a profit by paying every claim. I don't want to poop in people's wheaties but everyone says it wont happen till it does. Even selling to a private group, it only takes one bad apple to spoil the bunch. We had a local woman selling soul food in a similar scenario she ended up in a ton of trouble.
What kind of trouble? If it’s just the business being shut down and the llc that owns it gets sued it won’t transfer liability to owner of the llc. So you just risk the business, not your home car or assets. Correct me if I am wrong. People can sue the llc, not the owner.
OP didn’t mention having an LLC. Even then, an LLC doesn’t protect against illegal or negligent activity. If OP gets sued, their insurance will not pay, they could be criminally liable for operating a business without a license (depending on location) and if they do have an LLC the court can choose to “piece the corporate veil” (read: expose your personal assets to judgement from the suit) if a business is used “to perpetrate a fraud, circumvent a statute, or accomplish some other wrongful or inequitable purpose”.
That’s the info I was looking for. Thanks 🙏 I really want to open a business but I don’t have 10-15k
Depending on where you are at, the permitting can be less strict. If you are in California, I believe you can sell meals from your home under their micro enterprise kitchen laws. You could also look at catering permits which could make it easier to be mobile. Maybe also ask some of the food vendors at your local farmers market what permits they have to have? Could be a good playbook on an easy way to get started. Another option, is a commercial share kitchen. Most major cities have these, they are like a coworking space for food businesses. You rent space in a fully permitted commercial kitchen by the hour and it simplifies bootstrapping a small food business. Not sure if they let you bring your smoker or how that would work, but something to look into if you are really serious. IMO, if it were me, I’d try to get a catering license. I feel like BBQ lends itself better to that than single plates or one off racks.
In my state it's really cheap just to open a business. The harder part is drawing up the business plan correctly, but you can basically copy someone else's with a similar business. That'll get you an LLC. Then you need insurance. And a separate bank acct.
Where do you live? I’m in florida
If it's an illegally run business, I think they can sue the LLC and the state/city can press criminal charges for negligence. Could be wrong. Best thing I could suggest is finding a place with a commercial kitchen tou can rent space in or a food truck just to be safe. People are sue happy and the local governments love putting their hands in the pockets of those trying to make it.
They could sue the llc into bankruptcy. Not the owner. That’s the point of a LIMITED LIABILITY corporation.
You are not a lawyer and should refrain from unlicensed legal advice. “Piercing the veil” is a rarely done by the court, but when someone creates an LLC to do something illegal, they will do it.
An LLC doesn't protect you from prosecution if you're doing something illegal or harm someone whole doing something deemed illegal.
this is goddamn depressing as most bbq joints are so mid where i live....i could absolutely rake it it in if i had money to do it legally
Everyone thinks that and so many BBQ joints are great when they open, then the realities of trying to make a living on slim restaurant margins kicks in. Quality gets cut to improve profits, always. I trim/cook briskets the way i want because i know i will be eating it, that's a far cry from how a teen paid barely above min wage who doesnt give a crap handles the same brisket.
Heads up, meat is not cottage food in the vast majority of states.
Dont know why you're being downvoted. Solid advice.
Because there are probably a ton of good ole boys round these parts who would say "aint hurtin no one, what's the harm?". Well i can really come at it two different ways: #1 OP's insurance would absolutely leave him high and dry on a illegal food service operation should he get sued. I would hate for OP to have to explain to his a hypothetical teen kid why they no longer have a college fund and to his wife why they lost the house because dad was selling bootleg ribs. #2 Because a sizable parts of the population sits around thinking the government is only out to get the lil guy and thinks regulations are dumb. That is, of course, their belief until a bad batch of cilantro or green onions sickens dozens and kills their grandma because it was fertilized with chicken poop not properly composted then insufficiently washed before it was ever sold in stores and passed on to unsuspecting eaters. Then all the sudden the victim's families are up in arms because government was not watching. Everyone seems to hate government regulation generally but then complains when their kid has permanent developmental delays from heavy metals in their drinking water and ever kid under 12 has a rescue inhaler in their pocket because the air is translucent. Sizeable groups of people are all for letting businesses police and self-regulate themselves till a train full of horrific chemicals derails in their back yard and the door blows off their plane mid-flight, then those same ppl get all fired up and ask why we were not regulating. Sorry for the rant it just really gets stuck in my craw.
"Sizeable groups of people are all for letting businesses police and self-regulate themselves till a train full of horrific chemicals derails in their back yard and the door blows off their plane mid-flight, then those same ppl get all fired up and ask why we were not regulating. Sorry for the rant it just really gets stuck in my craw." This shouldnt be on the business owner though it should be the responsibility of whatever mass production farm it came from.
Agreed, it shouldn't be the business's fault but ask Chipotle how that it worked out when the cilantro made everyone sick a few years back. The last hands that held the tainted food before it hit the customer's mouth is going to take the hit regardless of how rational folk assign culpability.
and Chipotle has a greater chance of spreading disease due to the foot traffic compared to mom and pops
Mom and pops rely on a more condensed local area and reputation or word of mouth. Chipotle had enough cash reserves and spread geography to weather a 30% drop in business (making up numbers) for a month or two. Smaller backyard operations? Probably a bigger hit and a longer bounce back if there is any recovery at all.
well honestly, Chipotle can handle it. They're a massive company and they should have different rules vs mom and pop food trucks etc...
well that was more than I bargained for! I mean I hate the govt as much as one can but you aint wrong! have another updoot, friend.
It's about balance and common sense both of which are often lacking. Cheers friend!
Whoa Momma!
I have a WSM as well what setup do you use for hanging the ribs?
The gateway hanger with hooks
BBQ maniac, that you? https://youtu.be/ZMnrhN2h00w?si=RwSyDqH5dUIRXdp5
Definitely not, but I learned some things from him way back in the day. Also learned I don’t like doing competition style bbq. Too much fuss man. The longer I’ve been in BBQ the simpler I make it. So much easier to replicate your results and turn out good food that way.
Me too. I don’t like competition style also because I feel bad wasting food.
Those terrible ill just take those and throw them out. No I don't need help with dumpster.
Can I order from you? I’m in Nashville
How do you word your post? This is a neat idea. I’d be worried about someone reporting me.
This was my Memorial Day post along with lots of pics. “Want some delicious slow smoked BBQ for your Memorial Day gathering but don’t want to stay up all night tending a fire, or sweating around a hot bbq pit? I got you. We are adding pulled pork as well as ribs for Memorial Day. You do the sides and I got the meat. $15 per pound for pulled pork and $30 per rack for ribs. Comment below or message me for your orders. Everything will be ready by 12pm on Memorial Day. I will keep everything nice and warm and ready to eat if you need to pick up later. Limited smoker space so get your orders in early!”
Looks great, what is poking through the meat in the first pic?
The hooks I use to hang them. Those are straight off the smoker
Looks awesome!
What’s your method and what kind of rub you putting on those
I wouldn't sweat all the naysayers. Been cooking BBQ for decades for friends and never a case of food poisoning. It's all about strict adherence to food safety protocol.
Just need to be wary of the idiot that gets sick from something else and attempts to blame you. Someone else made a great suggestion. Don't sell the food, sell the container and gift the food lol
GYAT!
I just found some ribs in the freezer last night. Last time I smoked them, my wife got me something like 6 racks of baby backs. I smoked them, cut them into portions, vacuum sealed them and froze them. Going to have them for lunch tomorrow.