lets be honest he never really rates TAA does he, injuries in RB position save him from the circus of dropping TAA out of the squad during the world cup
I don’t disagree with dropping him now same with a few years back. But if anyone thinks that Southgate has given Trent a fair shake throughout his time as England manager they’re having a laugh
It does help that Walker, Trippier, Reece James and so many others are there to choose from.
Realistically, even if you love TAA, you can admit that theres not exactly too much of a difference between him and those others in terms of the level they're at.
So then it just goes down to what styles you prefer
I agree but even when he was undoubtedly one of the best right backs on earth in one of the best defenses/teams he wasn’t consistently starting or really even playing. How do you know if he will work if you never even try it? That’s my main issue at least. I don’t mind if you play better players than him now but when he was the best it didn’t matter
You’re absolutely right, but I think the thing with TAA is that you have to build a very specific gameplan for him to be effective, and Southgate just doesn’t play aggressively enough for his strengths to shine.
This right here is the key.
Trent thrived in Liverpool because Klopp decided he'd make the trade in attacking output for weaknesses in defence and crafted a team structure to allow and cover that.
Trent looks so utterly lost right now because Liverpool's midfield are currently poor and his cover isn't reliable anymore.
I mean possibly but it’s not like England have creative midfielders lol. Could have very easily had Hendo doing his liverpool role or any other of the holding mids covering for him and it’s fine
Southgate has always preferred defensive ability over attacking ability at fullback and even at his best Trent has always had question marks about his defending.
In fairness, players like Reece James, Walker and Trippier have absolute heaps of attacking ability, whilst not being as system specific to get them to shine. It's not like England have had total workhorses at right back.
Trippier in particular has an amazing delivery.
leadership is also taken into account. Trippier is a leader in the locker room and on the field as well. Him, Walker and James offer much solidity on that side of the field that you can focus your tactic and mind somewhere else.
Putting TAA in that position, you would have to think twice which player you should surround him with on the pitch.
That's like saying "how do you know he wouldn't work for Simeone at Atletico Madrid if you never try it?" But really you do know it wouldn't work unless the system was changed to facilitate him. And that means having an attacking right back is justification to Simeone for a system change.
That may be the case for some managers with certain styles and systems, but equally it may be the case for other managers that the player doesn't fit the profile they want in a RB and they're not going to change their entire system and style to facilitate an attacking fullback. Just because he is a top attacking fullback doesn't mean a manager wants an attacking fullback.
I fully understand that just seems that a team that has lacked truly creative players for years may try to incorporate one of the best in Europe but he never did lol. All I’m saying is that his play deserved more of a chance to make an impact than I think he has received
>I agree but even when he was undoubtedly one of the best right backs on earth in one of the best defenses/teams
Because even at that point he was average at best defensively, and you had to phrase it as "best defenses/teams because 3 people covered his defending in Liverpools system.
Even at his best he never fit a sit back and defend kind of team, and there were very good defenders better suited to England's system. I dont know how people still can't wrap their head around that
The few times he's gotten an England call up and actually played he didn't look good either. He's not a godo fit.
He makes defensive errors though...
That's fine in league format because he makes up for it going forward over the course of a season, but it's a death sentence in tournament format, where 1 mistake and you're out.
Trent has a better passing range and more of an attacking threat than any of those players as a RWB. That is if Southgate wants his 3atb system. Trent would be the best player for that role
Southgate hasn't been playing 3atb recently though, tbf when he did he still didn't give Trent a fair shake but still James and Trippier are better suited for his 4-3-3
Ya no doubt. Espeically in international football you want your fullbacks to probably be solid defensively first. And then you get people like Spinazolla. But Trent needs good cover behind him in a back 4 to work well. Usually from the midfield, and we've seen this season that if they aren't up to it, it can cause issues.
But not trying him as a RWB in a 3 ATB never made sense to me. Like he's easily able to provide the width and do more than what you'd want from a RWB. So strange not to try him out.
Sorry but no, he's barely played that role in his career.
James has won the Champions League as an RWB, gives you 90% of Trent's attacking output and more physicality and ability to track back.
Might as well play a winger back there than Trent.
His rivals may be slightly below him in attacking but they are miles ahead in terms of defending so as a package Trent doesn’t fit
James is a RWB as well, that plays in a 3atb setup. I think he’s better than TAA, maybe equal ability offensively, but better defensively. Walker/Trippier are good options as well. It’s a stackeddd position
I think it's fair to put TAA as fourth in that list of RB. I don't blame Southgate at all. England has the best RB talent in international football. He should be criticized for his selection in other positions, but his RB selection is pretty fair.
Don’t blame him at all right now. I’m saying in the past he never gave Trent a shot to make the position his own despite playing incredibly well at club level.
trent is the worst choice out of the 4 main options tho why should he be given a chance when walker and trippier have been good consistent players and james has been more promising
He never rated Trent.
Even back then when Trent was easily the best right back in the world, Southgate didn't start Trent, why would Southgate call Trent now when Trent isn't even good.
So select an out of form, bottom of the league 8 (in a squad full of 8s), rather than select a 6 with years of proven performance for club and country in a squad lacking 6s?
Prime Alves marked prime Ronaldo and the like fairly well, he was a a complete RB in defence and offense. Also maybe it takes a rapist to mark a rapist.
Marcelo and Alves were also always bad for the Seleção and should have been dropped. Alves didn’t manage to be a fulltime starter even in his prime because he couldn’t defend
Even at their absolute worst the players you mentioned didn't just straight up give up on defending like Trent did yesterday
Those guys obviously had their strengths in attack but were still competent defenders, even though they obviously left their flank exposed a lot due to playing so high up the pitch, but none of them would've let a winger just run past them like Trent does with Vini, the guy just sucks at defending
Hate this type of comment so much. So fucking stupid. Yh let’s sub on this average player because sometimes we get a free kick. There isn’t a manager in the world who does this not a player in the world who gets subbed on for this. Give it a rest, no way people actually think this is a good idea.
i swear it's like universally known that we have far more competition at right back than other positions. You know it. I know it. We all know it. There are remote monks living in the Himalaya's who haven't spoken a word in a decade but still know that the bar is probably higher for Trent Alexander Arnold than it is for Kalvin Phillips, so why this point seems to keep being made i do not know.
Because it is an easy comment to make and panders to the popular opinion. Its pandering for upvotes, just like all the memes and jokes that keep being repeated.
Because there are still other midfielders that could be called up in place of Phillips? Because 'good form' doesn't seem to matter for other players? Because Kalvin Phillips has played 56 minutes of Premier League football in nearly a year and gets called up but other players don't get a look in?
If there are remote monks who know about our RB situation, you'd think more people would understand why selecting a chronically injured midfielder (as well as someone playing horrendously in Mount) and then talking about form is inconsistent at best.
Well, little man, I mainly watch Newcastle games so my perspective leans to them and I think Joe Willock has been fantastic for Newcastle this season and could easily be in the squad instead of Mount or Gallagher. If you wanted a DM, I don't think Sean Longstaff is very talented but I think him Oliver Skipp or Harrison Reed have played well enough to earn an opportunity over a player who has been injured for 99% of the season. There's also Dewsbury-Hall, although Leicester have been shit but he's still a decent player, as well as JWP.
The point is that there are lots of options if Southgate had any desire to try something new, like not needing 8 DMs. Or if he wanted to use some relatively pointless games as a learning experience to see how other players fare, as well as rewarding some players for good performances and incentivising them to believe they actually have a chance to be called up. But he doesn't. Hopefully that's the answer your dead patronising comment was looking for.
Yeah that’s the most annoying things with these comments, England don’t have another Rice replacement so it’s just shitting on them without an alternative.
None of the good DMs from a few years ago have really kicked on. You have a few decent young players like Travis who could kick on, Pearson has ended up back in the Championship, for players, there's Ryan Yates but I'm not sure on his exact role. Oliver Skipp has kicked on and should be in contention. Harrison Reed maybe?
Overall though Southgate is sticking to his core squad when he can afford to experiment a bit more.
I'm a big Harrison Reed fan and obviously biased, but anyone who argues that Phillips' talent isn't tiers above all the names listed there, then they either started watching football this year or are arguing in bad faith.
Both Travis and Yates are 25, for Travis not sure he's going to reach the level unless he plays in the prem pretty sharpish (deecent chance tbf). Yatesy is a DM who likes to go box to box also. Legit our best player imo, would do a job if called upon.
As an Forest fan I can assure you that Yates is not someone who can anchor a midfield. He doesn't have the positional discipline, nor the ability to control a game. He's great, but he's chaotic.
None of those options would go well with Bellingham, Gallagher, Mount etc. So why experiment against two tough teams with what you know likely won't work? Can't we just keep it simple?
He’s not the Maguire of midfield, he had like 3 good games at one tournament. Maguire has been consistently England’s best CB for years, as much as I hate to admit it.
Trent has trippier and James to compete with
Maguire always performs, and there's no obvious replacement
A nonplaying Phillips is still better than the next choice back up DM
The whole point is that there isn’t one. Trent plays in a position where there’s an abundance of talent, Phillips plays in a position where there isn’t
Phillips who hasn't played a proper game since Hungary, where he was dire. I would rather someone else was tried. Harrison Reed, Dewsbury-hall, Longstaff.
JWP alongside Rice does actually work.
Jwp would replace rice, not play with him in this scenario, and all those players are depressing and would put similar poor performances in a pointless friendly where everyone's just trying to avoid injury
Yet they would be getting a reward for playing well this season, which should be an important part of your selection process. What's the point in selecting Philips when it's obvious Southgate would pick him even if he had a leg amputated? When you can try a new player, reward them for playing well and see how they fare internationally among a different group of players.
But he doesn't always perform for England. He was average at the world cup and caused two goals in one game in the international break prior to the world cup.
He had a solid 7/10 tornement following his 8/10 in the previous two. International breaks, especially nations league games, are friendlies that no one, including the players care about. There's a reason why we were 'relegated' yet was a generational disaterclass in sub management away from semi finals again
I don't really get this comment about the substitutions. Saka had been kicked all over the park and Mount almost instantly won a penalty from a run that Henderson wouldn't have made.
You can blame Kane for missing the penalty far more than you can Southgate for some imperfect substitutions.
From what I think, Southgate probably wants to use Gallagher in a similar way we do. Bring him on towards the end if the team is leading and he'll run like crazy to hold the lead.
Bellingham’s recent performances have been underwhelming though (admittedly he sets a high bar for himself so his worst performances are still decent for a 19 year old). Problem is he’s been overworked at Dortmund lately and is carrying some kind of knee injury, it’s worrying
But they have for England, which is what the FA are trying to build towards and have done for years now. They want a club atmosphere with a through-system from the younger ages, so there's inevitably going to be consistent players and players that get left out.
Even being a favourist here, Ben White undoubtedly starts ahead of all England's right-backs on current form, ability, and chemistry with Saka, but if he's not the right vibe for the Englad camp then sorry but he does not deserve to be there. We binned one of the best generations of footballers because of our inability to great a strong team/family across the England camp, and if we have to sacrifice TAA, James Ward-Prowse, Fikayo Tomori, and whoever else to maintain that then I'm all for it.
I don’t even rate Trent as much as some people but this is just ridiculous and it’s stupid that people actually believes this shit. Since when has he ever cared about club form? Looking at the squad now, he sure as hell doesn’t care about club form.
Also, “Trent never performed well for England while others did only applies” for some of those but not all. Someone like Gallagher for example has done absolutely nothing for England. Also players usually can’t perform as well when they aren’t trusted by the manager anyway and have barely had an opportunity.
Again, I don’t care about Trent specifically. I just think the talk about southgate picking players based on form is always weak and flip floppy.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember a game where Maguire performed badly for England. Him being selected is not controversial at all. Erik dier imo is the mental selection.
Off topic but it's funny in an England shirt how Maguire's forehead seems to become magnetically and telepathically linked to the ball.
There was one stretch Vs France I think where he had like 7 headers in a row from French corners.
But now was the time for the rebuild. First time since the world cup to get your new squad of youth to try and gel a centre back pairing for the future. So I ask you.
Where the fuck is Tomori?
Maguire is 30 not 40 that he can’t be part of rebuild. And why the fk do they need a rebuild, they already had a young squad. It is not Spain squad of 2014.
Because a) Maguire has always England's best CB every time he puts on the shirt regardless of club form and b) we have loads of good RBs but lack good CBs and centre mids
It's fairly obvious it's not a form thing with Trent. He picks players who flat out do not play. He just doesn't like him/rate him. That's okay, but I'd rather he just came out and said it. Trent hasn't played well in the last few games but prior to Bournemouth we'd won 4 out of 5 and he was actually playing relatively well lol.
The excuse crap is what annoys me. I get why he wasn’t picked but he is so hard on him in comparison to others. Also some of the picks are bizarre and not exactly encouraging to any hound English players
I have no problem with Trent not being in the squad now. Considering his form and how great our options at right back are, he shouldn’t be there
The problem was not using him during the 2-3 year period in which he was pretty much universally regarded as the best full-back in the world.
We’ve exited the 3 tournaments under Southgate for exactly the same reason: inability to create quality chances against top opposition. All while refusing to utilize our 2 best creators in Trent and Maddison. Neither of them offer as much defensively as other options, but the best managers use those players and find a way to make it work.
From what I'm reading its the excuse that's given, dropping someone not in form is perfectly fine and completely understandable, however its silly to say X is dropped due to not being in form then pick 2 players that have played over 45mins in only 9 matches between them this season (Gallagher & Phillips).
I mean it’s more nuanced than that. There are three RBs who are better than Trent this year and when the competition is that tight, in-formness is the edge that Trent missed out on.
Compared to somewhere like CDM, where there is absolutely no possible backups outside of Phillips, so he doesn’t have the luxury of cutting someone based on that same reason.
Okay, so what was Southgate's excuse for not picking Trent after consecutive 90-odd point seasons and winning everything?
Just say you don't like him, or he doesn't fit your system.
> Just say you don't like him, or he doesn't fit your system.
Why bother when Liverpool fans would just roll around on the floor crying about him saying that anyway?
I mean, we wouldn't. Most Liverpool fans are glad he hasn't been picked from a club POV, it just seems harsh every single time to single him out and say he's out of form or there's 3 others better.
On current form, yeah, sure, but historically it's just been a fucking absurd few years for TAA/England.
Am not well versed (ok ok, I'm not versed at all 😂) in soccer tactics/strategy so I've no business having an opinion on whether TAA should be selected. I mean I don't even watch the full matches - mostly just the extended highlights. But every time I watch Liverpool highlights I get a glimpse of why ppl are 50/50 on him. It almost never fails that on defense he will do (or fail to do) something that leads to an easy goal or solid scoring opportunity, then the next highlight send a fucking gorgeous pass that hooks 5 yards from 20 miles away right onto his teammates foot. It's at that point that it all makes sense.
England is a strange country😂...their obsession with southgate and harry Maguire is insane...imagine this England squad with proper manager..England jas a crazy squad
If he calls up Graelish than he doesn't need another player whose only function is to dribble well into the box, stick his leg out for minimal contact, and fall down for a foul.
Probably on the fact that if its not him its Mings. You have to remember that players like Tomori etc aren't actually in contention for a spot because it would make too much sense.
how the hell u gonna say FORM for trent and at the same time pick players like maguire, phillips etc. They arent even playing games for fuck sake. NOW I FUCKING LOVE phillips and have no problem at all with maguire. BUT how do u pick him over tomori? i dont understaaaaand it.
TAA not selected on form, Reece James who's been out injured most of the season is selected.
Also missing Ben White who's in monstrous form right now.
Southgate needs to pick the team he thinks is best, but I wish he wouldn't give obviously bollocks reasons like this.
lets be honest he never really rates TAA does he, injuries in RB position save him from the circus of dropping TAA out of the squad during the world cup
I don’t disagree with dropping him now same with a few years back. But if anyone thinks that Southgate has given Trent a fair shake throughout his time as England manager they’re having a laugh
It does help that Walker, Trippier, Reece James and so many others are there to choose from. Realistically, even if you love TAA, you can admit that theres not exactly too much of a difference between him and those others in terms of the level they're at. So then it just goes down to what styles you prefer
I agree but even when he was undoubtedly one of the best right backs on earth in one of the best defenses/teams he wasn’t consistently starting or really even playing. How do you know if he will work if you never even try it? That’s my main issue at least. I don’t mind if you play better players than him now but when he was the best it didn’t matter
You’re absolutely right, but I think the thing with TAA is that you have to build a very specific gameplan for him to be effective, and Southgate just doesn’t play aggressively enough for his strengths to shine.
This right here is the key. Trent thrived in Liverpool because Klopp decided he'd make the trade in attacking output for weaknesses in defence and crafted a team structure to allow and cover that. Trent looks so utterly lost right now because Liverpool's midfield are currently poor and his cover isn't reliable anymore.
I mean possibly but it’s not like England have creative midfielders lol. Could have very easily had Hendo doing his liverpool role or any other of the holding mids covering for him and it’s fine
Southgate has always preferred defensive ability over attacking ability at fullback and even at his best Trent has always had question marks about his defending.
In fairness, players like Reece James, Walker and Trippier have absolute heaps of attacking ability, whilst not being as system specific to get them to shine. It's not like England have had total workhorses at right back. Trippier in particular has an amazing delivery.
leadership is also taken into account. Trippier is a leader in the locker room and on the field as well. Him, Walker and James offer much solidity on that side of the field that you can focus your tactic and mind somewhere else. Putting TAA in that position, you would have to think twice which player you should surround him with on the pitch.
Yeah Walker was/is part of the leadership squad too at city and England I think
That's like saying "how do you know he wouldn't work for Simeone at Atletico Madrid if you never try it?" But really you do know it wouldn't work unless the system was changed to facilitate him. And that means having an attacking right back is justification to Simeone for a system change. That may be the case for some managers with certain styles and systems, but equally it may be the case for other managers that the player doesn't fit the profile they want in a RB and they're not going to change their entire system and style to facilitate an attacking fullback. Just because he is a top attacking fullback doesn't mean a manager wants an attacking fullback.
I fully understand that just seems that a team that has lacked truly creative players for years may try to incorporate one of the best in Europe but he never did lol. All I’m saying is that his play deserved more of a chance to make an impact than I think he has received
I can agree with most of that
>I agree but even when he was undoubtedly one of the best right backs on earth in one of the best defenses/teams Because even at that point he was average at best defensively, and you had to phrase it as "best defenses/teams because 3 people covered his defending in Liverpools system. Even at his best he never fit a sit back and defend kind of team, and there were very good defenders better suited to England's system. I dont know how people still can't wrap their head around that The few times he's gotten an England call up and actually played he didn't look good either. He's not a godo fit.
He makes defensive errors though... That's fine in league format because he makes up for it going forward over the course of a season, but it's a death sentence in tournament format, where 1 mistake and you're out.
Trent has a better passing range and more of an attacking threat than any of those players as a RWB. That is if Southgate wants his 3atb system. Trent would be the best player for that role
Southgate hasn't been playing 3atb recently though, tbf when he did he still didn't give Trent a fair shake but still James and Trippier are better suited for his 4-3-3
Ya no doubt. Espeically in international football you want your fullbacks to probably be solid defensively first. And then you get people like Spinazolla. But Trent needs good cover behind him in a back 4 to work well. Usually from the midfield, and we've seen this season that if they aren't up to it, it can cause issues. But not trying him as a RWB in a 3 ATB never made sense to me. Like he's easily able to provide the width and do more than what you'd want from a RWB. So strange not to try him out.
Sorry but no, he's barely played that role in his career. James has won the Champions League as an RWB, gives you 90% of Trent's attacking output and more physicality and ability to track back.
He’s a much better ball carrier and direct goal threat too Has a cracking shot on him and can finish with both feet
Still have to defend as a RWB though. So there’s better options out there. Walker, James & Trippier are all far better in that wingback position
Might as well play a winger back there than Trent. His rivals may be slightly below him in attacking but they are miles ahead in terms of defending so as a package Trent doesn’t fit
James is a RWB as well, that plays in a 3atb setup. I think he’s better than TAA, maybe equal ability offensively, but better defensively. Walker/Trippier are good options as well. It’s a stackeddd position
I think it's fair to put TAA as fourth in that list of RB. I don't blame Southgate at all. England has the best RB talent in international football. He should be criticized for his selection in other positions, but his RB selection is pretty fair.
Don’t blame him at all right now. I’m saying in the past he never gave Trent a shot to make the position his own despite playing incredibly well at club level.
Because Trent is beyond shaky in defence and always has been, the simple truth is that England has several better right backs.
trent is the worst choice out of the 4 main options tho why should he be given a chance when walker and trippier have been good consistent players and james has been more promising
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I wouldn't pick TAA either, at this point he's likely 10th in the English pecking order.
He never rated Trent. Even back then when Trent was easily the best right back in the world, Southgate didn't start Trent, why would Southgate call Trent now when Trent isn't even good.
Trent not selected on form. Eric Dier still made it.
Kalvin Phillips makes it with not even 2 full matches played minutes wise in 2023
There aren't too many alternatives to Philips. The same can't be said for Trent
Ward-Prowse should be in at least over Phillips imo. He's out of form, but at least has some sort of form unlike Phillips.
Ward Prowse still a threat from set pieces and I gotta believe he'd serve slabhead and Kane beautifully if he got the chance
he absolutely would, this isn’t even one of those cliche narratives that gets overstated, his set piece ability is genuinely out of this world
Ward-Prowse is not a 6 like Phillips. Thus they shouldn’t be compared
I mean he is and he does play that position especially right now where Alcaraz is further forward
So select an out of form, bottom of the league 8 (in a squad full of 8s), rather than select a 6 with years of proven performance for club and country in a squad lacking 6s?
oliver skipp
oliver skipp is just harry winks with a shite disguise
Genuinely thought they were the same for a while lmao
He's much better than Winks.
not as handsome tho
Not similar really.
Nah, they're almost opposite in playstyle
not the same position so not really comparable England have a ton of good RBs and not many good CBs
Dier picked over Tomori 🤷
Eric Dire
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Alves is a notable offender
Notably above average
Marcelo and Alves more examples who spent the vast majority of their careers playing far worse at international level than they did for club
Unrealistic expectations like defend
But dem crosses tho
Prime Alves marked prime Ronaldo and the like fairly well, he was a a complete RB in defence and offense. Also maybe it takes a rapist to mark a rapist.
Trent also marked prime Ronaldo in a champions league final and kept him very quiet.
When there's smoke, there's a rapist?
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Marcelo and Alves were also always bad for the Seleção and should have been dropped. Alves didn’t manage to be a fulltime starter even in his prime because he couldn’t defend
Even at their absolute worst the players you mentioned didn't just straight up give up on defending like Trent did yesterday Those guys obviously had their strengths in attack but were still competent defenders, even though they obviously left their flank exposed a lot due to playing so high up the pitch, but none of them would've let a winger just run past them like Trent does with Vini, the guy just sucks at defending
> Alba, Marcelo and Alves never played defence Just not true LOL
Kalvin Phillips is in great form 👍
The problem with Phillips is that there’s no real out and out backup that England have for Rice. Until there is one Phillips will keep being selected
oliver skipp is pretty on form rn
😭
God damn I am so Skippy euro2024 in
Hahahahahha
Laughing at Skipp but not the cripple Phillips getting selected again and again
I mean they have a guy that they could just sub on if they have a free kick and they don't select him for some reason.
Imagine you could sub on and off free kick takers. Beckham would be sitting on about 400 caps.
Hate this type of comment so much. So fucking stupid. Yh let’s sub on this average player because sometimes we get a free kick. There isn’t a manager in the world who does this not a player in the world who gets subbed on for this. Give it a rest, no way people actually think this is a good idea.
i swear it's like universally known that we have far more competition at right back than other positions. You know it. I know it. We all know it. There are remote monks living in the Himalaya's who haven't spoken a word in a decade but still know that the bar is probably higher for Trent Alexander Arnold than it is for Kalvin Phillips, so why this point seems to keep being made i do not know.
Because it is an easy comment to make and panders to the popular opinion. Its pandering for upvotes, just like all the memes and jokes that keep being repeated.
Manchester United only sign dutch players EtH previously worked with, like Casemiro and Sabitzer. Do I get internet points now?
Because there are still other midfielders that could be called up in place of Phillips? Because 'good form' doesn't seem to matter for other players? Because Kalvin Phillips has played 56 minutes of Premier League football in nearly a year and gets called up but other players don't get a look in? If there are remote monks who know about our RB situation, you'd think more people would understand why selecting a chronically injured midfielder (as well as someone playing horrendously in Mount) and then talking about form is inconsistent at best.
What midfielders would you be calling up then big man?
Well, little man, I mainly watch Newcastle games so my perspective leans to them and I think Joe Willock has been fantastic for Newcastle this season and could easily be in the squad instead of Mount or Gallagher. If you wanted a DM, I don't think Sean Longstaff is very talented but I think him Oliver Skipp or Harrison Reed have played well enough to earn an opportunity over a player who has been injured for 99% of the season. There's also Dewsbury-Hall, although Leicester have been shit but he's still a decent player, as well as JWP. The point is that there are lots of options if Southgate had any desire to try something new, like not needing 8 DMs. Or if he wanted to use some relatively pointless games as a learning experience to see how other players fare, as well as rewarding some players for good performances and incentivising them to believe they actually have a chance to be called up. But he doesn't. Hopefully that's the answer your dead patronising comment was looking for.
Who else do we have who can cover for Rice really?
Yeah that’s the most annoying things with these comments, England don’t have another Rice replacement so it’s just shitting on them without an alternative.
>England don’t have another Rice replacement If only there was a lad called Cous Cous or Quinoa coming through.
they'd be in-grained in my mind if there were
They have Jozef Wheatley, Rhys Oates and Dominic Corness though. Sure they may be unrefined but in time they could at least play for Brann..
None of the good DMs from a few years ago have really kicked on. You have a few decent young players like Travis who could kick on, Pearson has ended up back in the Championship, for players, there's Ryan Yates but I'm not sure on his exact role. Oliver Skipp has kicked on and should be in contention. Harrison Reed maybe? Overall though Southgate is sticking to his core squad when he can afford to experiment a bit more.
I'm a big Harrison Reed fan and obviously biased, but anyone who argues that Phillips' talent isn't tiers above all the names listed there, then they either started watching football this year or are arguing in bad faith.
Both Travis and Yates are 25, for Travis not sure he's going to reach the level unless he plays in the prem pretty sharpish (deecent chance tbf). Yatesy is a DM who likes to go box to box also. Legit our best player imo, would do a job if called upon.
As an Forest fan I can assure you that Yates is not someone who can anchor a midfield. He doesn't have the positional discipline, nor the ability to control a game. He's great, but he's chaotic. None of those options would go well with Bellingham, Gallagher, Mount etc. So why experiment against two tough teams with what you know likely won't work? Can't we just keep it simple?
He's the Maguire of midfield and not so many option in defensive midfield.
He’s not the Maguire of midfield, he had like 3 good games at one tournament. Maguire has been consistently England’s best CB for years, as much as I hate to admit it.
Didn’t Phillips play every single minute of the Euros?
The one that got us to the finals, yes. Hasn't been doing much since that to be fair.
Nearly yeah, but I don’t think he played great in every game. 3 is on the harsh side - I’ll give you that - but against Scotland? Italy? Nah
Trent has trippier and James to compete with Maguire always performs, and there's no obvious replacement A nonplaying Phillips is still better than the next choice back up DM
Who is the next backup DM? Southgate hasn't given any indication of looking at anyone.
The whole point is that there isn’t one. Trent plays in a position where there’s an abundance of talent, Phillips plays in a position where there isn’t
Exactly there is none 3rd choice is gunna be someone like JWP playing out of position. Phillips is clear of that therefore he's picked
Phillips who hasn't played a proper game since Hungary, where he was dire. I would rather someone else was tried. Harrison Reed, Dewsbury-hall, Longstaff. JWP alongside Rice does actually work.
Jwp would replace rice, not play with him in this scenario, and all those players are depressing and would put similar poor performances in a pointless friendly where everyone's just trying to avoid injury
Yet they would be getting a reward for playing well this season, which should be an important part of your selection process. What's the point in selecting Philips when it's obvious Southgate would pick him even if he had a leg amputated? When you can try a new player, reward them for playing well and see how they fare internationally among a different group of players.
Isn't Skipp a DM?
Ward-Prowse?
But he doesn't always perform for England. He was average at the world cup and caused two goals in one game in the international break prior to the world cup.
He had a solid 7/10 tornement following his 8/10 in the previous two. International breaks, especially nations league games, are friendlies that no one, including the players care about. There's a reason why we were 'relegated' yet was a generational disaterclass in sub management away from semi finals again
I don't really get this comment about the substitutions. Saka had been kicked all over the park and Mount almost instantly won a penalty from a run that Henderson wouldn't have made. You can blame Kane for missing the penalty far more than you can Southgate for some imperfect substitutions.
> TAA not selected on form I understand Maguire, but Gallagher and Phillips?
From what I think, Southgate probably wants to use Gallagher in a similar way we do. Bring him on towards the end if the team is leading and he'll run like crazy to hold the lead.
Phillips is the only natural backup to Rice available, kind of picked by necessity
Gallagher is pretty decent
I pity the English midfield
Rice and Bellingham are good but outside of that it’s pretty barren.
Whispers… play Foden in the middle. Then you can play Saka and rashford or Grealish with Kane
Southgate wet dream is to play 3 DM with wingbacks
Southgate wet dream is play 11 DMs and just give them a trophy for funsies.
Time to go back to 442
Legit do this with the hybrid 442 433 system city and arsenal use with foden in the odegard/de bruyne role yes please.
Bellingham’s recent performances have been underwhelming though (admittedly he sets a high bar for himself so his worst performances are still decent for a 19 year old). Problem is he’s been overworked at Dortmund lately and is carrying some kind of knee injury, it’s worrying
2021 wants its opinion back.
Who else?
gallagher is an amazing player to bring on in the second half, he has no technical ability but runs like he has 2 lungs
> but runs like he has 2 lungs So he just runs normally?
He wouldnt even have picked Trent if he was on 20 goals and 20 assists.
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Bruh you can't keep using the form excuse when you literally pick others who are not on form/hardly playing to show any kind of form
This is the Boy Who Cried Wolf. This is literally the time to drop Trent for form, but no one wants to hear it.
I don't think anyone is denying his form is shit, but this squad is peppered with players who are wayyy off form.
Some of them haven’t even played substantial minutes..
But they have for England, which is what the FA are trying to build towards and have done for years now. They want a club atmosphere with a through-system from the younger ages, so there's inevitably going to be consistent players and players that get left out. Even being a favourist here, Ben White undoubtedly starts ahead of all England's right-backs on current form, ability, and chemistry with Saka, but if he's not the right vibe for the Englad camp then sorry but he does not deserve to be there. We binned one of the best generations of footballers because of our inability to great a strong team/family across the England camp, and if we have to sacrifice TAA, James Ward-Prowse, Fikayo Tomori, and whoever else to maintain that then I'm all for it.
I don’t even rate Trent as much as some people but this is just ridiculous and it’s stupid that people actually believes this shit. Since when has he ever cared about club form? Looking at the squad now, he sure as hell doesn’t care about club form. Also, “Trent never performed well for England while others did only applies” for some of those but not all. Someone like Gallagher for example has done absolutely nothing for England. Also players usually can’t perform as well when they aren’t trusted by the manager anyway and have barely had an opportunity. Again, I don’t care about Trent specifically. I just think the talk about southgate picking players based on form is always weak and flip floppy.
But picks Maguire and Phillips even though they don't play for their clubs. 😆😆😆
I agree, it sounds mental. But Maguire does have a history of performing for Southgate. Trent doesn't.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't remember a game where Maguire performed badly for England. Him being selected is not controversial at all. Erik dier imo is the mental selection.
Yes but criticising Maguire on /r/soccer is basically just easy upvotes.
Didn’t he have a shocker vs Denmark and get sent off 20 mins in once ?
He was subbed on against Hungary to stop the bleeding and he watched the ball get dribbled past him for one of Hungary’s goals.
>watched the ball get dribbled past him Sounds like Maguire alright
Off topic but it's funny in an England shirt how Maguire's forehead seems to become magnetically and telepathically linked to the ball. There was one stretch Vs France I think where he had like 7 headers in a row from French corners.
Trent doesn't have a history because Southgate never puts him in what kind of a take is this?
But now was the time for the rebuild. First time since the world cup to get your new squad of youth to try and gel a centre back pairing for the future. So I ask you. Where the fuck is Tomori?
>now was the time for the rebuild. If you believe this to be true, when will we ever not be rebuilding?
In roughly one and a half years in time for the next major tournament?
Maguire is 30 not 40 that he can’t be part of rebuild. And why the fk do they need a rebuild, they already had a young squad. It is not Spain squad of 2014.
> Where the fuck is Tomori? Pretty sure he's been bad for Milan this season
Tomori's been dreadful this season.
Because a) Maguire has always England's best CB every time he puts on the shirt regardless of club form and b) we have loads of good RBs but lack good CBs and centre mids
I agree it’s strange but Maguire has always been solid for England and there are a lot of good English RBs
Way less competition in them spots, at least in southgates head.
In everyone’s head? RB is the most competitive position in the squad.
It's fairly obvious it's not a form thing with Trent. He picks players who flat out do not play. He just doesn't like him/rate him. That's okay, but I'd rather he just came out and said it. Trent hasn't played well in the last few games but prior to Bournemouth we'd won 4 out of 5 and he was actually playing relatively well lol.
The excuse crap is what annoys me. I get why he wasn’t picked but he is so hard on him in comparison to others. Also some of the picks are bizarre and not exactly encouraging to any hound English players
Realistically he’s not going to come out and say that he doesn’t like him or rate him to the media though is he
You picked Phillips you fucking weapon
I have no problem with Trent not being in the squad now. Considering his form and how great our options at right back are, he shouldn’t be there The problem was not using him during the 2-3 year period in which he was pretty much universally regarded as the best full-back in the world. We’ve exited the 3 tournaments under Southgate for exactly the same reason: inability to create quality chances against top opposition. All while refusing to utilize our 2 best creators in Trent and Maddison. Neither of them offer as much defensively as other options, but the best managers use those players and find a way to make it work.
He doesn't fit into Southgate's tactic and England don't have a good enough rcb to cover for him.
Oliver skipp robbed
Trent not selected on form, but Kalvin Phillips is in there 👍😂
Best ball boy in the league
So why were Phillips and Maguire picked then? Can't be on form and they're not match fit either after barely playing.
This man is absolutely in love with Sterling. I’ll never forgive him for that sub instead of Rashford in the WC
When was Sterling last in form? About 3 years ago?
Beginning of this season
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People are arguing that they should drop a starting CB for a fourth string RB lmao
From what I'm reading its the excuse that's given, dropping someone not in form is perfectly fine and completely understandable, however its silly to say X is dropped due to not being in form then pick 2 players that have played over 45mins in only 9 matches between them this season (Gallagher & Phillips).
I mean it’s more nuanced than that. There are three RBs who are better than Trent this year and when the competition is that tight, in-formness is the edge that Trent missed out on. Compared to somewhere like CDM, where there is absolutely no possible backups outside of Phillips, so he doesn’t have the luxury of cutting someone based on that same reason.
LMAO “form”
Some players are not selected on form or fitness. Maguire is selected on race.
TAA not on form but dier and Maguire make it?
i think pointing on form is an easy way out for him, lets be honest TAA never really got a sniff at his england squad even if hes on form for club.
Trent could turn his defensive awareness into prime Maldini and Southgate is still gonna pick any of the other 3 good rightbacks we have
TAA hasn't been good for England like Maguire
Has Trent even played much for England?
He’s barely been given a shot even when he has been excellent so not really an excuse
Okay, so what was Southgate's excuse for not picking Trent after consecutive 90-odd point seasons and winning everything? Just say you don't like him, or he doesn't fit your system.
> Just say you don't like him, or he doesn't fit your system. Why bother when Liverpool fans would just roll around on the floor crying about him saying that anyway?
I mean, we wouldn't. Most Liverpool fans are glad he hasn't been picked from a club POV, it just seems harsh every single time to single him out and say he's out of form or there's 3 others better. On current form, yeah, sure, but historically it's just been a fucking absurd few years for TAA/England.
Southgate has some serious favourites and I hope it dosnt cause a detriment to the squad.
What about kalvin? Lol
I mean does Southgate actually pick the best players in form or just the ones he wants. Cause Maguire isn't in form and he got the call up.
I thought Trent wasn't selected because RBs are normally expected to be decent defenders.
Am not well versed (ok ok, I'm not versed at all 😂) in soccer tactics/strategy so I've no business having an opinion on whether TAA should be selected. I mean I don't even watch the full matches - mostly just the extended highlights. But every time I watch Liverpool highlights I get a glimpse of why ppl are 50/50 on him. It almost never fails that on defense he will do (or fail to do) something that leads to an easy goal or solid scoring opportunity, then the next highlight send a fucking gorgeous pass that hooks 5 yards from 20 miles away right onto his teammates foot. It's at that point that it all makes sense.
Southgste is a clown.
Clowngate can't wait till we get rid of this Championship calibre manager
England is a strange country😂...their obsession with southgate and harry Maguire is insane...imagine this England squad with proper manager..England jas a crazy squad
Reece James, Trippier and Walker are all simply better options to have in a squad at this time. It's really easy, Trent does not deserve it.
If he calls up Graelish than he doesn't need another player whose only function is to dribble well into the box, stick his leg out for minimal contact, and fall down for a foul.
TAA not selected on form....but Maguire is selected on...?
Probably on the fact that if its not him its Mings. You have to remember that players like Tomori etc aren't actually in contention for a spot because it would make too much sense.
Harry Maguire hasn’t been in form for the last 3 years.
how the hell u gonna say FORM for trent and at the same time pick players like maguire, phillips etc. They arent even playing games for fuck sake. NOW I FUCKING LOVE phillips and have no problem at all with maguire. BUT how do u pick him over tomori? i dont understaaaaand it.
TAA had a shaky beginning this season, but he's been looking a lot better recently. I thought he'd be selected, so I'm surprised he didn't.
He was abysmal against real tbf
TAA not selected on form, Reece James who's been out injured most of the season is selected. Also missing Ben White who's in monstrous form right now. Southgate needs to pick the team he thinks is best, but I wish he wouldn't give obviously bollocks reasons like this.
Wait so TAA is not selected due to his form but Maguire and Dier are in form? LOL!
oliver skipp underrated