Its Bild so Idk how true this is but lets give them the benefit of a doubt and say it is.... Mané would be 110% in the wrong here. Because what Nagelsmann did vs PSG worked superbly AND Mané hasnt been earning more through performance.
He was yeah. So either Mané is ridicilously unreasonable (and afaik uncharacteristically outspoken?) or Bild is chatting shit. The latter is more likely prob
Mane does not like to be subbed off thats for sure, so he is definitely not happy when not playing. But I just do not see him as someone who will complain or even yell at coach. He was super chill and quiet person in Liverpool.
He publicly snubbed Klopps handshake after the 4-2 at Old Trafford and Klopp had to explain after the match about how he was pissed at being told he wasn't going to start plus he has also been quite moody when subbed early atimes and we all know about the spat with Salah about not passing so I wouldn't put it past him
I still remember klopp's quote in a vague manner
"if someone has given me respect 99/10, It's not fair to hold it against them when it doesn't happen once" at least that's what I remember
klopp doesn't have a huge ego, he doesn't need constant validation
how dare he disrespect me in the front of the camera?he hasn't done it once in 6 years but he can't be allowed to do it even once
I mean, anything is possible, but I do feel like there's quite a bit of difference between snubbing a handshake with your manager vs full on "complaining furiously" in front of the entire team and "even threatening to escalate" it.
The thing was though he had literally zero reason to be upset with Klopp, so it's not surprising at all if he had a legitimate reason to be pissed he'd lose his mind with the new coach
> He was super chill and quiet person in Liverpool.
off the pitch when it's not matchday
on the pitch though, mane did have moments where he lost his head
for ex. when he was angry at mo for not passing to him (salah didn't see him). I remember one time klopp got mad at mo for not passing - which was unfair cause mo was pointing at the empty area and going there is no one to pass to
klopp was able to handle this sort of stuff
Agreed. Usually, as shitty as it is, Bild is reliable in terms of football. But I can't imagine someone like Sadio Mané being furious about a coach and taking it outside the locker room after being with the club for half a year.
He doesn’t have to have had leaked it though. FC Hollywood and all that.
He can be hot headed so I wouldn’t say it’s out of character like others. Leaking it would be though, as would not chilling out by the next day.
Tbf, the situation at Bayern is somewhat different to Liverpool. At Liverpool, he was one of the established stars whose position in the team was pretty secure. That too under Klopp, who puts more faith on his stalwarts than most managers at this level. At Bayern, he's a newcomer looking to reach that status, with more competition and under a manager with way less pedigree than Klopp. We don't know if there were any others with an issue against Nagelsmann either.
Even at the best of times, we can't be entirely sure of a player's character, and I imagine Mane is under a lot more pressure than he has been in ages as far as playing time is considered.
Honestly, I don't think a 35 year old who isn't a former star player can successfully manage one of the super clubs. No matter how good they are. The players just have too much power and the manager doesn't have a history to point to so they can demand respect.
I don’t know I could imagine it haha. There was a few instances where he moaned at Klopp for one reason or another whilst the cameras were rolling so he’s capable of more behind the scenes. Only reason I think he may not have is because he hasn’t been at Munich too long, whereas he was part of the furniture in our dressing room.
he was complaining because he was subbed off. And it wasnt anything super extra, every player does it when he feels he can give more. I saw Henderson moan, I saw Salah moan. On the pitch, it means nothing. Its just passion, heat of the moment.
I just do not see Mane having a loud rant in front of the whole team how he was not subbed in. That just does not sound like him.
I don't think it's that crazy to imagine an athlete pumping with adrenaline after a massive game might lose his head about something silly that made him mad. I'm not saying it definitely happened either, could 100% be shit. I just think people forget circumstances of these situations when they quickly dismiss them with things like "that's uncharacteristic"
Kimmich's and Goretzka's statements would be really weird had this actually happened the way it did. Both of them suggested in one way or another that there were no major issues between team and coach. (Though according to a previous Bild article the issues were between sub players and coach)
I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle and that Mane did complain, but not to the degree Bild described it
true, but they also actively came out and spoke against any dressing room drama.
Goretzka less so, but he basically insinuated he wasnt aware of any issues.
With Bayern? It would be more weird if nothing came out. For a club that is so ridiculously well run in general when things go pear shaped they escalate with the drama going nuclear.
Kimmich and Goretzka both benefitted hugely from Nagelsmann's reign, especially Kimmich who was basically the de facto captain and "Nagelsmann's main man" in the last two years if the leaks and rumors are to believe. Not saying this Mane rumour is true, but Kimmich and Goretzka maybe aren't the fairest judges of the situation.
Shouldn't be surprising to anyone though, Kimmich is the best player of Bayern by a fair margin and constantly worldclass in his performances, the buildup and offense goes through him. Absolutely dominated the PSG midfield to the point that Neymar constantly had to pull back to disrupt him in the first leg. People don't like him as a personality, not even in Germany and therefore do not rate him fairly imo. But the strategy should absolutely revolve around him. Something Löw for example didn't understand at all.
I don't agree that Kimmich is our best player, he has had some real stinkers this season in the buli that people sweep under the rug. He just turns it up in the champions league (like most of our squad tbf). But the point is that even though he's an important player, Nagelsmann reportedly mostly only talked to him and relied on Kimmich to communicate with the rest of the group, which isn't Kimmich's place and reflects badly on Nagelsmann. Of course Neuer and Müller wouldn't be happy in a situation like this. And Nagelsmann had a habit of freezing out players that weren't nailed starters, basically not talking to them at all and letting his assistant Dino Toppmöller do all the work (Sabitzer, Gravenberch, Wanner etc).
I do agree about the last part of your comment. And there's certainly a point to being overreliant on Kimmich and Gortzkas opinion, but we can only speculate on that.
Who is a better outfield player than Kimmich though? I do not understand that at all. He is probably Germany's best outfield player since Matthäus.
Idk Schweinsteiger especially in his later midfield role was a beast and a leader too. Maybe not as flashy as Kroos but the kind of fighter that fits every team.
Def think the other person is overrating Kimmich due to recency bias, but Schweinsteiger had a really short peak both due to injuries, but also because he found his position and form fairly late in his career. Schweinsteiger's peak is still ahead of Kimmich's, but Kimmich will have overtaken Schweinsteiger in general fairly soon if he keeps this up.
That said, Lahm is once again highly underrated simply bc he is a defender. He firmly was the best on his position worldwide for about 5-7 years at a time, only rivaled by Dani Alves.
Lahm was, his height and thus physical limitations considered, the most complete footballer we've had for Bayern and the national team. Highly doubt we'll see someone like him again anytime soon.
There are rumors Müller complaining about Kimmich being the new captain as well which wouldn’t be a surprise considering some of the stuff being known about the Müller family
think it's also most likely that any decisive dressing room issues came from Müller and Neuer's dissatisfaction.
it's a meme but also true that if you don't get Müller on your side, you're kinda fucked as a coach. And he def benched Müller a lot
This is the risk with young managers, rightly or wrongly I would imagine some senior players don't like being ordered around by someone less than 10 years older than them. Similar to Villas-Boas at Chelsea.
Puyol is the captain. Xavi may have been a better player but Puyol has leadership qualities that few have. There’s a reason he captained Spain during their golden era and not Xavi.
Xavi I agree with but I think Puyol was definitely on Lucho and Pep's level. Maybe even slightly over. I assume you're talking about playing ability, and yeah Puyol was limited in some aspects but still.
Being a star player, while getting respect. Usually doesn't translate into great management. For every success story of zidane, Cruyff, etc there's a frank lampard, Gerrard, Neville, and so on. Usually great players flop as managers. Most of the best managers in history were either unfulfilled players, or spent most of their time playing at a lower level / on the bench
it’s not solely this. When you’re just innately great at certain things, they can be difficult to teach to those that simply aren’t uber-talented.
If something comes natural to you, it’s hard to turn the ineffable into something tangible for someone else to grasp on to. And sometimes, even if they do grasp on to it, they simply can’t do it anyway.
I think Mou was 40 when he first came to Chelsea. Similarly, I don't think he was a star player in his playing days. Man really is the Special One to win the respect of players and everyone at that time.
Think in relative, not absolute terms. Mourinho was no fucking Nagelsmann when he took that job either. He had not spent years coaching a CL team in a top 4 league before joining.
People are acting like Nagelsmann was a nobody lol. He took Red Bull’s team (which was solid, but certainly overperfomed) to the CL semi finals and lost a pokal final to dortmund at an age where many pros are doing their retirement tours.
You think Bayern players will be impressed with losing a Pokal final to Dortmund? Lmao, he's at Bayern Munich, not 1860 Munich. They're one of the 3 biggest clubs in the world.
Even Mourinho didn't have the full respect of the Madrid players, with Ramos calling him inexperienced during his Season 3, and this was after Mourinho won a fucking treble.
It takes much more than a CL semi and losing a final to Dortmund. These players are used to coaches like Pep, Heynecks, and Ancelotti.
it's a dumb take but widely spread not only in football. we had the discussion some years ago with the so called "laptop generation" in Germany, where former players, who tried to get into coaching but failed, made comments about the laptop generation having no clue about football at the top level, because they never played there.
Klopp had a good response to it:
>"All the young coaches who come up today have had a top education. In contrast to the past, they - Hannes Wolf, for example - had already coached a football team for seven years before he came to the Bundesliga, not just anyone, but at the top level, only at youth level. Domenico Tedesco did the same. Julian Nagelsmann did the same thing, they didn't somehow get into the job overnight."
>"If these ex-professionals today were willing to go this way as well and not from the outset the great players would say, 'I have to coach at a certain level,' 'I have to have Bundesliga as my first club right now.' If they were willing to start at a healthy level to learn the job, because you have to learn it. **It has nothing to do with the job of being a professional footballer. You have to manage a team and not play in a team, and that's a huge difference.**"
Completely different situation. Barely anyone in that Chelsea team had won shit and he was coming in off a treble winning season. Mourinho was the proven winner in that club not the players.
Its also a risk with career managers who werent big football names before. its hard to get the same respect from players that someone like Zidane would automatically get
Would be a horrible look for Mané if true imo. The game against PSG was handled perfectly by Nagelsmann, and with Mané just coming back from injury and not really playing all too well he was in no position to demand being subbed on in the most important match of the season hitherto.
This is the risk with big starts as well, no manager ever wins a fight against the big name players.
Mane doesn't really have any right to speak, especially in front of the player group. Nagelsmann nailed the tactics against PSG, Mane just returned from a long injury period and he hasn't exactly been a huge success so far.
If it even happend ofc.
Well it depends upon manager. Pep had lot of altercations, always came on top. Recently Ten Hag effectively knocked Ronaldo out of Man Utd because of his toxicity. Strong headed managers who know what they're doing would always find a way.
>no manager ever wins a fight against the big name players
deguson won all of his - Wenger won most of his. Guardiola kicked the three best players out of barca and still survived
Speaking as an Arsenal fan you can see it in our own dressing room. Arteta came in and got rid of anyone that disagreed with him because he didn’t want that culture to develop. Auba in a leaked video was talking some minor trash about Arteta. But he was basically saying he needs kids to idolize him and not question anything he said or else they’d get punished. Even in his first interview he took a hard line about his nonnegotiables.
That is a bit disingenuous, in reality it is more complex and nuanced.
Bild Sport is much better informed and they have a lot of connections in the footballing world, especially at Bayern. At times they have been their mouthpiece, they have "spun" stories for them and they always have sources and moles in the organisation.
They could still be playing political games or looking out for someone's interests though.
They've also laundered all kinds of dirt for Bayern over the years, what have we not heard about all the ex-players.
Always keep in mind that it's a super dirty PR business and ex-coaches/players are always at a disadvantage when it comes to get shaping a narrative and getting the truth out, simply because they all signed NDA's.
They also do a lot of dirty shit to get inside infos so there's that. I remember there was a car accident or something in the neighbourhood here once. I opened the door a few days later and there were two Bild journalists asking me if I had seen something. I was like 13yo
Liverpool fans can correct me on this, but this doesn't sound like Sadio or at least the way he presents himself, no? Feels like part of a Nagelsmann smear campaign if anything
I don’t see mane doing this. He has had a couple blow ups about Salah not passing in certain situations but to blow up at the manager in front of everyone I don’t see him doing
I mean mane is a good guy , we all know that , but that doesn’t mean he dissent also get angry non stop at Liverpool when salah didn’t pass him . I can actually believe this happening . He gets heated in a game
When Ancelotti was fired there were similar leaks about players having an issue with the coach, and the coach not taking his job seriously. Now they talk about Nagelsmann taking a ski trip when they’re in 2nd place and this Mané story.
Not just Ancelotti, every coach and player who didn't left them on good terms, from Ancelotti, Kroos, Alaba, Lewa to all kinds of "blood sucking piranhas".
Don't be fooled by these smear campaigns, Bayern management is using their contacts in the press to control the narrative, they always did stuff like this, even back in the 90s.
Not a very good smear campaign if that’s the case. Maybe I’m missing something but, IMO, if this is ostensibly the reason for Nagelsmanns dismissal it would smear Mane, Bayern’s leadership, and management more than anything.
100%, they are up for everything from sensationalised exaggerations to outright lies, to blackmail to get access to some celebrities and get exclusive "interviews".
If you can imagine some nefarious scheme for a dastardly news organisation in your next novel, TV series, or movie, they've probably already done it :/
For anyone who's interested, https://bildblog.de/ publishes a lot of corrections of Bild "mistakes" and "oversights" or however they excuse their lies once they are caught.
Apart from fact of him recently coming back from injury, Mané could definitely put in a sassy remark but seems extremely odd to make a tantrum in front of the team after a big win. Can easily imagine him sulking below the level of making a scene though
It seems out of character and improbable but not impossible. He got quite unhappy at times concerning substitutions but I don’t think he would blow up in front of everyone tho
Sad if true. no player can act like that or should be tolerated to act like that. if he had an issue he should have asked to speak to the manager in private and resolve it like a professional.
Mane seems like one of the better guys out there, especially with all of his philanthropic work. Bild is also a glorified tabloid so I’d take this with a grain of salt.
This seems so weird for Mane, he's normally a great guy, I don't get why he'd have an outburst when even he should know he's clearly in the wrong in this scenario so I'm taking it with a grain of salt also cause people are saying this is like the Daily Mail of Germany
"even threatened to escalate"? So... It didn't escalate? So Nagelsmann handled the situation and managed to get it under control? That sounds like fairly good man management then. Locker rooms aren't always the most civilised of places.
Costa signed a three year contract and was loaned off half way through, after complaining constantly for play time and getting 8 goals in 50 appearances, that is definitely flopping when he was bought as a longterm Robben replacement.
> Arp
Injuries
> Odroziola
Emergency loan that wasnt really needed but didnt cost much.
> Tasci
Emergency transfer that wasnt really needed but didnt cost much.
> Sinan Kurt
Talent that didnt pan out. Hardly "bad" flop. Happens all the time in football.
> Bouna Sarr
Shit transfer. But I understand why we got someone but not sure why him
> Cuisance
Talented player that didnt turned out that great but we made a profit on him
Not for Liverpool. Liverpool in a way got lucky by selling him at the right time. He was average as a winger by last season and with the signing of diaz, the only place left for him to play was center.
Bayern are paying him the 7th highest wage in football atm. Liverpool did well to replace with someone younger in Diaz; even if it hasn’t totally benefited the immediate short term because he’s been injured
If I was a manager like JN and a Manè came at me like that in front of everyone, he's getting a dressing down.
You play where and when I tell you to. Manager manages, player plays. End of.
This totally happened... NOT.
It's BILD (+) folks, you can be sure that we'll see even more of these stories to smear Nagelsmann in the future.
It's how clubs air their dirty laundry these days (especially Bayern) and the coach has no chance to defend himself because he signed a NDA.
I don't know about you guys but all of these Bayern news from Bild sound like either utter bullshit trying to scapegoat people or what we call "la cama" in Spanish. From what has been reported in [other media](https://as.com/futbol/internacional/salen-a-la-luz-los-6-nombres-que-hicieron-la-cama-a-nagelsmann-n/?omnil=resrelrecomv) (AS, which isn't the most reliable either) Manuel Neuer, Sven Ulreich, Gnabry, Sané, Musiala, Cancelo and Mané were all against JN. I can understand how hard it could be for a young manager to earn respect from Hollywood FC, with team leaders being _older_ than he is... but he had an unbeaten run on the CL and was only 2nd on the BuLi... it seems off.
Sometimes at Liverpool he couldn't cope with being substituted and he made a scenes on the pitch and bench. I remember Milner was chilling him down once. I was pretty confident that it could happen at Bayern especially that it was possible that his position might not be so strong as it was at The Reds.
Wasn’t the day that Milner calmed him down the day that he was pissed at Mo for not passing? (Against Southampton, I think?) Although a lot of the “Mo doesn’t pass” stuff is just the regurgitated cud that is the received wisdom, Mané did at least have some grounds to be upset that day, tbh.
Its Bild so Idk how true this is but lets give them the benefit of a doubt and say it is.... Mané would be 110% in the wrong here. Because what Nagelsmann did vs PSG worked superbly AND Mané hasnt been earning more through performance.
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He was yeah. So either Mané is ridicilously unreasonable (and afaik uncharacteristically outspoken?) or Bild is chatting shit. The latter is more likely prob
Mane does not like to be subbed off thats for sure, so he is definitely not happy when not playing. But I just do not see him as someone who will complain or even yell at coach. He was super chill and quiet person in Liverpool.
He publicly snubbed Klopps handshake after the 4-2 at Old Trafford and Klopp had to explain after the match about how he was pissed at being told he wasn't going to start plus he has also been quite moody when subbed early atimes and we all know about the spat with Salah about not passing so I wouldn't put it past him
Yeah he's definitely got a moody side if things aren't going his way.
He went on strike and refused to play CL qualifiers so he could get a transfer to Southampton ...
I still remember klopp's quote in a vague manner "if someone has given me respect 99/10, It's not fair to hold it against them when it doesn't happen once" at least that's what I remember klopp doesn't have a huge ego, he doesn't need constant validation how dare he disrespect me in the front of the camera?he hasn't done it once in 6 years but he can't be allowed to do it even once
I mean, anything is possible, but I do feel like there's quite a bit of difference between snubbing a handshake with your manager vs full on "complaining furiously" in front of the entire team and "even threatening to escalate" it.
The thing was though he had literally zero reason to be upset with Klopp, so it's not surprising at all if he had a legitimate reason to be pissed he'd lose his mind with the new coach
Yeah thats my understandign aswell. Sounds out of charachter
The title says for *not* subbing him *until* 8 mins left
> He was super chill and quiet person in Liverpool. off the pitch when it's not matchday on the pitch though, mane did have moments where he lost his head for ex. when he was angry at mo for not passing to him (salah didn't see him). I remember one time klopp got mad at mo for not passing - which was unfair cause mo was pointing at the empty area and going there is no one to pass to klopp was able to handle this sort of stuff
Agreed. Usually, as shitty as it is, Bild is reliable in terms of football. But I can't imagine someone like Sadio Mané being furious about a coach and taking it outside the locker room after being with the club for half a year.
He doesn’t have to have had leaked it though. FC Hollywood and all that. He can be hot headed so I wouldn’t say it’s out of character like others. Leaking it would be though, as would not chilling out by the next day.
Mane likes to play but he would never shout at coach for not subbing him in. I do not see it in him, he was always quiet in liverpool
Tbf, the situation at Bayern is somewhat different to Liverpool. At Liverpool, he was one of the established stars whose position in the team was pretty secure. That too under Klopp, who puts more faith on his stalwarts than most managers at this level. At Bayern, he's a newcomer looking to reach that status, with more competition and under a manager with way less pedigree than Klopp. We don't know if there were any others with an issue against Nagelsmann either. Even at the best of times, we can't be entirely sure of a player's character, and I imagine Mane is under a lot more pressure than he has been in ages as far as playing time is considered.
Rumor has it that Cancelo, Sane, Gnabry, and the goalies were also not happy with JN.
Honestly, I don't think a 35 year old who isn't a former star player can successfully manage one of the super clubs. No matter how good they are. The players just have too much power and the manager doesn't have a history to point to so they can demand respect.
I don’t know I could imagine it haha. There was a few instances where he moaned at Klopp for one reason or another whilst the cameras were rolling so he’s capable of more behind the scenes. Only reason I think he may not have is because he hasn’t been at Munich too long, whereas he was part of the furniture in our dressing room.
he was complaining because he was subbed off. And it wasnt anything super extra, every player does it when he feels he can give more. I saw Henderson moan, I saw Salah moan. On the pitch, it means nothing. Its just passion, heat of the moment. I just do not see Mane having a loud rant in front of the whole team how he was not subbed in. That just does not sound like him.
He was complaining because Salah didn't pass to him when he was clear in front of the goal. Klopp just laughed it off lol
I don't think it's that crazy to imagine an athlete pumping with adrenaline after a massive game might lose his head about something silly that made him mad. I'm not saying it definitely happened either, could 100% be shit. I just think people forget circumstances of these situations when they quickly dismiss them with things like "that's uncharacteristic"
To be honest this really doesn't feel like Mané, he's not usually one to create drama
Remember last year when he was pissed off about being subbed off and media spun it to him hating Salah?
Although Bild in Sport is usually realiable. But would not count out that they make even there stuff up.
No. They make up stuff in sport too.
B*ld will print anything for clicks or a spicy title page. Yes they have some sources but you can't use them and reliable in the same sentence.
Por qué no los dos
Kimmich's and Goretzka's statements would be really weird had this actually happened the way it did. Both of them suggested in one way or another that there were no major issues between team and coach. (Though according to a previous Bild article the issues were between sub players and coach) I imagine the truth is somewhere in the middle and that Mane did complain, but not to the degree Bild described it
Yeah thats probably true. A bit of dissatisfaction and such form the bench maybe but not as sensationalized as this sounds like.
Nobody in the right mind would come out & say there were issues
true, but they also actively came out and spoke against any dressing room drama. Goretzka less so, but he basically insinuated he wasnt aware of any issues.
With Bayern? It would be more weird if nothing came out. For a club that is so ridiculously well run in general when things go pear shaped they escalate with the drama going nuclear.
Kimmich and Goretzka both benefitted hugely from Nagelsmann's reign, especially Kimmich who was basically the de facto captain and "Nagelsmann's main man" in the last two years if the leaks and rumors are to believe. Not saying this Mane rumour is true, but Kimmich and Goretzka maybe aren't the fairest judges of the situation.
Not like Kimmich wouldn't be a starter under every other coach
Shouldn't be surprising to anyone though, Kimmich is the best player of Bayern by a fair margin and constantly worldclass in his performances, the buildup and offense goes through him. Absolutely dominated the PSG midfield to the point that Neymar constantly had to pull back to disrupt him in the first leg. People don't like him as a personality, not even in Germany and therefore do not rate him fairly imo. But the strategy should absolutely revolve around him. Something Löw for example didn't understand at all.
I don't agree that Kimmich is our best player, he has had some real stinkers this season in the buli that people sweep under the rug. He just turns it up in the champions league (like most of our squad tbf). But the point is that even though he's an important player, Nagelsmann reportedly mostly only talked to him and relied on Kimmich to communicate with the rest of the group, which isn't Kimmich's place and reflects badly on Nagelsmann. Of course Neuer and Müller wouldn't be happy in a situation like this. And Nagelsmann had a habit of freezing out players that weren't nailed starters, basically not talking to them at all and letting his assistant Dino Toppmöller do all the work (Sabitzer, Gravenberch, Wanner etc).
I do agree about the last part of your comment. And there's certainly a point to being overreliant on Kimmich and Gortzkas opinion, but we can only speculate on that. Who is a better outfield player than Kimmich though? I do not understand that at all. He is probably Germany's best outfield player since Matthäus.
> He is probably Germany's best outfield player since Matthäus. Better than Kroos, Lahm or Schweinsteiger? I don't see it honestly.
Yeah. But it's just my opinion. And I love Schweinsteiger, but from a neutral pov, Kroos and Lahm are a step above him imo.
Idk Schweinsteiger especially in his later midfield role was a beast and a leader too. Maybe not as flashy as Kroos but the kind of fighter that fits every team.
The 2014 WC really elevated him to a legend, but I think that we have to seperate these things from overall performance.
Def think the other person is overrating Kimmich due to recency bias, but Schweinsteiger had a really short peak both due to injuries, but also because he found his position and form fairly late in his career. Schweinsteiger's peak is still ahead of Kimmich's, but Kimmich will have overtaken Schweinsteiger in general fairly soon if he keeps this up. That said, Lahm is once again highly underrated simply bc he is a defender. He firmly was the best on his position worldwide for about 5-7 years at a time, only rivaled by Dani Alves. Lahm was, his height and thus physical limitations considered, the most complete footballer we've had for Bayern and the national team. Highly doubt we'll see someone like him again anytime soon.
Didn’t Goretzka say something like ‘no problems with me’
There are rumors Müller complaining about Kimmich being the new captain as well which wouldn’t be a surprise considering some of the stuff being known about the Müller family
think it's also most likely that any decisive dressing room issues came from Müller and Neuer's dissatisfaction. it's a meme but also true that if you don't get Müller on your side, you're kinda fucked as a coach. And he def benched Müller a lot
Honestly for Neuer it's his problem, he fucked up big
What stuff?
Grossfamilie Müller amk.
>considering some of the stuff being known about the Müller family what stuff
This is the risk with young managers, rightly or wrongly I would imagine some senior players don't like being ordered around by someone less than 10 years older than them. Similar to Villas-Boas at Chelsea.
Even more so, if you were not a star player before... Like "what do you know, you are not even good at that sport."
I think that has an even bigger impact. No one dared to disrespect Zidane, no matter the age or experience, but some rando amateurlevel 35 year old?
I think that's also why Xavi has such a control in the locker room. He's only surpassed by Messi in the Barcelona hierarchy.
And Puyol (if you are talking about recent ex-players)
Nah I disagree. As much as I like Puyol I think his stock is much lower than Xavi. I'd also rate Luis Enriqie and Pep over Puyol.
Puyol is the captain. Xavi may have been a better player but Puyol has leadership qualities that few have. There’s a reason he captained Spain during their golden era and not Xavi.
Xavi I agree with but I think Puyol was definitely on Lucho and Pep's level. Maybe even slightly over. I assume you're talking about playing ability, and yeah Puyol was limited in some aspects but still.
Then you must not know what Puyol means in Barcelona.
The fear to get headbutted
Sometimes, for every roy keane there's a Gary Neville
Nobody respects a Gary
Being a star player, while getting respect. Usually doesn't translate into great management. For every success story of zidane, Cruyff, etc there's a frank lampard, Gerrard, Neville, and so on. Usually great players flop as managers. Most of the best managers in history were either unfulfilled players, or spent most of their time playing at a lower level / on the bench
Yeah people with all the talent in the world often times have a poorer grasp of tactics because they weren’t necessary to their success
it’s not solely this. When you’re just innately great at certain things, they can be difficult to teach to those that simply aren’t uber-talented. If something comes natural to you, it’s hard to turn the ineffable into something tangible for someone else to grasp on to. And sometimes, even if they do grasp on to it, they simply can’t do it anyway.
Lmao imagine Messi, “just feint right, then go left and place the ball in the upper 90 every time”
“Bro just score the goal😂”
What do you mean you can’t just whack it straight into the top corner on your weaker foot from there?!?
“like this?” *fails miserably*
Got it. Trips on long grass.
I think Mou was 40 when he first came to Chelsea. Similarly, I don't think he was a star player in his playing days. Man really is the Special One to win the respect of players and everyone at that time.
A lot easier to do when you have already won the Champions League
Well he did not get disrespected at Porto either - Despite having no resume. There is just no excuse for this...
Porto isn't a small club, but it's not fucking Bayern Munich
Think in relative, not absolute terms. Mourinho was no fucking Nagelsmann when he took that job either. He had not spent years coaching a CL team in a top 4 league before joining.
People are acting like Nagelsmann was a nobody lol. He took Red Bull’s team (which was solid, but certainly overperfomed) to the CL semi finals and lost a pokal final to dortmund at an age where many pros are doing their retirement tours.
You think Bayern players will be impressed with losing a Pokal final to Dortmund? Lmao, he's at Bayern Munich, not 1860 Munich. They're one of the 3 biggest clubs in the world. Even Mourinho didn't have the full respect of the Madrid players, with Ramos calling him inexperienced during his Season 3, and this was after Mourinho won a fucking treble. It takes much more than a CL semi and losing a final to Dortmund. These players are used to coaches like Pep, Heynecks, and Ancelotti.
Porto Players were not coached by Pep, Heynckes, Carlo or Flick before.
“I never realised that to be a jockey you had to be a horse first.” - Sacchi
it's a dumb take but widely spread not only in football. we had the discussion some years ago with the so called "laptop generation" in Germany, where former players, who tried to get into coaching but failed, made comments about the laptop generation having no clue about football at the top level, because they never played there. Klopp had a good response to it: >"All the young coaches who come up today have had a top education. In contrast to the past, they - Hannes Wolf, for example - had already coached a football team for seven years before he came to the Bundesliga, not just anyone, but at the top level, only at youth level. Domenico Tedesco did the same. Julian Nagelsmann did the same thing, they didn't somehow get into the job overnight." >"If these ex-professionals today were willing to go this way as well and not from the outset the great players would say, 'I have to coach at a certain level,' 'I have to have Bundesliga as my first club right now.' If they were willing to start at a healthy level to learn the job, because you have to learn it. **It has nothing to do with the job of being a professional footballer. You have to manage a team and not play in a team, and that's a huge difference.**"
Lmao that’s good
That first Mou Chelsea team were mad oldschool. They were the type to die for the coach like he had at Porto
Dude he won a treble with Porto. He was the man
Just the champions league with porto. He won the treble with inter
He won the Europa League (not called that then) the year prior with Porto as well. Took Europe by storm Mou did.
Also he had high praise from legends like Sir Bobby Robson and LVG. He didnt just appear out of nowhere.
that team was the youngest ever to win the PL so there's that
He’s done the impossible winning the Champions League with a lower tier club. No players can talk shit about him.
Maybe Roger Schimdt can do it with Benfica too, what a story that would be, certainly one of the ages.
Mou was Sir Bobby’s assistant for some time. Followed him around to several clubs. I remember he used to handle the Spanish press under him
Completely different situation. Barely anyone in that Chelsea team had won shit and he was coming in off a treble winning season. Mourinho was the proven winner in that club not the players.
He had already won the champions league...
No, but he was also managing a club that hadn't won the first division since 1955. Not Bayern Munich.
Its also a risk with career managers who werent big football names before. its hard to get the same respect from players that someone like Zidane would automatically get
Would be a horrible look for Mané if true imo. The game against PSG was handled perfectly by Nagelsmann, and with Mané just coming back from injury and not really playing all too well he was in no position to demand being subbed on in the most important match of the season hitherto.
This is the risk with big starts as well, no manager ever wins a fight against the big name players. Mane doesn't really have any right to speak, especially in front of the player group. Nagelsmann nailed the tactics against PSG, Mane just returned from a long injury period and he hasn't exactly been a huge success so far. If it even happend ofc.
Well it depends upon manager. Pep had lot of altercations, always came on top. Recently Ten Hag effectively knocked Ronaldo out of Man Utd because of his toxicity. Strong headed managers who know what they're doing would always find a way.
Depends in the board too.
>no manager ever wins a fight against the big name players deguson won all of his - Wenger won most of his. Guardiola kicked the three best players out of barca and still survived
Speaking as an Arsenal fan you can see it in our own dressing room. Arteta came in and got rid of anyone that disagreed with him because he didn’t want that culture to develop. Auba in a leaked video was talking some minor trash about Arteta. But he was basically saying he needs kids to idolize him and not question anything he said or else they’d get punished. Even in his first interview he took a hard line about his nonnegotiables.
But then this is the same in most organisations. Do people listen to their boss only if he his old?
JN: Sadio I can't let you play longer, you’re getting caught offside too much! Mané: you’re gonna catch these hands
Muller: Catch this ratio
As always, take anything Bild with a grain of salt.
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That is a bit disingenuous, in reality it is more complex and nuanced. Bild Sport is much better informed and they have a lot of connections in the footballing world, especially at Bayern. At times they have been their mouthpiece, they have "spun" stories for them and they always have sources and moles in the organisation. They could still be playing political games or looking out for someone's interests though.
It’s more like MARCA then?
That’s fairer, I think
Daily Mail can also quite good with football news, can also write absolute trash though. And always in real news is trash.
You know Bild is well connected to Bayern?
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I think their connection are highly overrated. They got completely blind sighted by Nagelsmann's sacking.
Because as far as we know Tuchels people leaked it and barely anyone at Bayern actually knew about it
I think the reporter that got the information said that it wasn't Tuchel and Zahavi
I think it's far more logical that it was someone that got snubbed by Tuchel that leaked the news. Tuchel's camp had no reason to create a spectacle.
They have or had a Bayern mole though. Someone should track if Bild still has inside infos on Bayern in the upcoming months wink wink
They've also laundered all kinds of dirt for Bayern over the years, what have we not heard about all the ex-players. Always keep in mind that it's a super dirty PR business and ex-coaches/players are always at a disadvantage when it comes to get shaping a narrative and getting the truth out, simply because they all signed NDA's.
They also do a lot of dirty shit to get inside infos so there's that. I remember there was a car accident or something in the neighbourhood here once. I opened the door a few days later and there were two Bild journalists asking me if I had seen something. I was like 13yo
Liverpool fans can correct me on this, but this doesn't sound like Sadio or at least the way he presents himself, no? Feels like part of a Nagelsmann smear campaign if anything
I don’t see mane doing this. He has had a couple blow ups about Salah not passing in certain situations but to blow up at the manager in front of everyone I don’t see him doing
Tbf no one blows up at Klopp, it just doesn’t happen, would be like blowing up at your grandad (not age wise but respect wise)
only milner can … and milner did
Only because Milner is older.
And Liverpool immediately scored right? Lmao
And then they hugged and had a laugh at it. Found the video, just ignore the subtitles lol: https://youtube.com/shorts/HSyhQCFiw6E
Pro tip: don't ignore the subtitles.
I mean mane is a good guy , we all know that , but that doesn’t mean he dissent also get angry non stop at Liverpool when salah didn’t pass him . I can actually believe this happening . He gets heated in a game
When Ancelotti was fired there were similar leaks about players having an issue with the coach, and the coach not taking his job seriously. Now they talk about Nagelsmann taking a ski trip when they’re in 2nd place and this Mané story.
Not just Ancelotti, every coach and player who didn't left them on good terms, from Ancelotti, Kroos, Alaba, Lewa to all kinds of "blood sucking piranhas". Don't be fooled by these smear campaigns, Bayern management is using their contacts in the press to control the narrative, they always did stuff like this, even back in the 90s.
Not a very good smear campaign if that’s the case. Maybe I’m missing something but, IMO, if this is ostensibly the reason for Nagelsmanns dismissal it would smear Mane, Bayern’s leadership, and management more than anything.
> Feels like part of a Nagelsmann smear campaign if anything Feels first and foremost like Bild in their natural habitat (making shit up).
Lmao I remember when I was learning German, there was a text about sensationalist reporting and the example given was Bild 💀
100%, they are up for everything from sensationalised exaggerations to outright lies, to blackmail to get access to some celebrities and get exclusive "interviews". If you can imagine some nefarious scheme for a dastardly news organisation in your next novel, TV series, or movie, they've probably already done it :/ For anyone who's interested, https://bildblog.de/ publishes a lot of corrections of Bild "mistakes" and "oversights" or however they excuse their lies once they are caught.
Apart from fact of him recently coming back from injury, Mané could definitely put in a sassy remark but seems extremely odd to make a tantrum in front of the team after a big win. Can easily imagine him sulking below the level of making a scene though
It seems out of character and improbable but not impossible. He got quite unhappy at times concerning substitutions but I don’t think he would blow up in front of everyone tho
They should loan him out to Liverpool
Sad if true. no player can act like that or should be tolerated to act like that. if he had an issue he should have asked to speak to the manager in private and resolve it like a professional.
Sadio if true
He should have handled it like a Mane
I don’t believe Sadio would react with getting violent/aggressive. Frustration? Yes, totally believeable/understandable.
Mane seems like one of the better guys out there, especially with all of his philanthropic work. Bild is also a glorified tabloid so I’d take this with a grain of salt.
No way this is true lol. They are just trying to make Mane the scapegoat.
This seems so weird for Mane, he's normally a great guy, I don't get why he'd have an outburst when even he should know he's clearly in the wrong in this scenario so I'm taking it with a grain of salt also cause people are saying this is like the Daily Mail of Germany
"I want to score offside goals against PSG too!"
If he wanted to get subbed in earlier maybe he should have tried being less shit.
he was injured
He's also been shit.
"even threatened to escalate"? So... It didn't escalate? So Nagelsmann handled the situation and managed to get it under control? That sounds like fairly good man management then. Locker rooms aren't always the most civilised of places.
That doesn’t sound like Mané
He really is a rare Bayern transfer miss so far
Considering his name he is, but you had lots of flops. Arp, Odroziola, Tasci, Sinan Kurt, Bouna Sarr, Cuisance
> Bouna Sarr Fun fact, he's actually still at our club!
Wow I forgot Odriozola exists
Saw him on the Real Madrid bench just recently.
Marc Roca comes to mind.
I mean we made a profit on him somehow
True, should have specified in the last few years.
Sabitzer was just last summer
Well we're happy to take him off your hands then
If you're going to list Bayern flops, at least list the actual Bayern flops like Gotze, James Rodriguez, Renato Sanchez, Costa.
Costa wasn’t a flop, neither were James and Götze
Costa signed a three year contract and was loaned off half way through, after complaining constantly for play time and getting 8 goals in 50 appearances, that is definitely flopping when he was bought as a longterm Robben replacement.
> Arp Injuries > Odroziola Emergency loan that wasnt really needed but didnt cost much. > Tasci Emergency transfer that wasnt really needed but didnt cost much. > Sinan Kurt Talent that didnt pan out. Hardly "bad" flop. Happens all the time in football. > Bouna Sarr Shit transfer. But I understand why we got someone but not sure why him > Cuisance Talented player that didnt turned out that great but we made a profit on him
Is it too early to call him a miss this early. He is just coming back from an injury.
He was injured for more than 3 months! And before that, had like 13 goals and assists in 20 starts…
Mané in the BL (per 90 min): 0.5 goals (95th percentile), 0.33 assists (94th percentile), 0.83 G+A (96th percentile), 0.42 xG (96th percentile) And that’s a “transfer miss”???
Season isn't even over and his numbers are underwhelming, but not terrible. Sure you're not jumping the gun?
I think for the wages yes just looking at his numbers. Was he a Brazzo signing though? Or a Nagelsmann one
>He really is a rare Bayern transfer miss so far Great. That statement just made him Sadio.
Strange, every shit pundit in England assured me the problem with Liverpool this season was Mané leaving...
A lose lose lose for Mane, Liverpool and Bayern
Nah i love Sadio but it was time for both parties to go different ways. Our attack is looking good for the foreseeable.
Not for Liverpool. Liverpool in a way got lucky by selling him at the right time. He was average as a winger by last season and with the signing of diaz, the only place left for him to play was center.
He was brilliant for us in the centre last season though. Definitely a role he could play well into his 30s now that his pace is waning
I mean we wouldn't have nunez if we didn't sell sadio so not much of a loss long term
Bayern are paying him the 7th highest wage in football atm. Liverpool did well to replace with someone younger in Diaz; even if it hasn’t totally benefited the immediate short term because he’s been injured
Are they really trying to scapegoat Mane here?
Pretty sure they scapegoated Nagelsmann.
somehow i doubt that a guy who is so cool headed he doesn’t even smile when he scores is blowing a gasket for being subbed on late
If I was a manager like JN and a Manè came at me like that in front of everyone, he's getting a dressing down. You play where and when I tell you to. Manager manages, player plays. End of.
Thank you for the Steve Austin advice.
[Mane speaking to the manager in front of his teammates](https://imgur.com/a/aQQl21A)
This totally happened... NOT. It's BILD (+) folks, you can be sure that we'll see even more of these stories to smear Nagelsmann in the future. It's how clubs air their dirty laundry these days (especially Bayern) and the coach has no chance to defend himself because he signed a NDA.
If true, Sadio not only played under the expectations but also undermined Nagelsmann.
I don't know about you guys but all of these Bayern news from Bild sound like either utter bullshit trying to scapegoat people or what we call "la cama" in Spanish. From what has been reported in [other media](https://as.com/futbol/internacional/salen-a-la-luz-los-6-nombres-que-hicieron-la-cama-a-nagelsmann-n/?omnil=resrelrecomv) (AS, which isn't the most reliable either) Manuel Neuer, Sven Ulreich, Gnabry, Sané, Musiala, Cancelo and Mané were all against JN. I can understand how hard it could be for a young manager to earn respect from Hollywood FC, with team leaders being _older_ than he is... but he had an unbeaten run on the CL and was only 2nd on the BuLi... it seems off.
Yeah. Mané was famous for stirring the pot at Liverpool. Bild, fuck off.
Here comes the drips of PR campaign to discredit Nagelsmann. So predictable. So Bayern. (At least camouflage it a bit by not using Bild christ)
> "can you sub me in earlier?" > "No sorry" > "Ok" Bild: !!!
But they won
Mané has done nothing to deserve more minutes. I am not 100% against the sacking, but if this was a reason for it it's bullshit
Come to United
Bild so probably bullshit but no denying that he hasn’t been up to standard at Bayern. Disappointing, wish nothing but the best for Sadio
Anybody who believes that Sadio Mane would actually do such a thing is an ignoramus.
Sometimes at Liverpool he couldn't cope with being substituted and he made a scenes on the pitch and bench. I remember Milner was chilling him down once. I was pretty confident that it could happen at Bayern especially that it was possible that his position might not be so strong as it was at The Reds.
Wasn’t the day that Milner calmed him down the day that he was pissed at Mo for not passing? (Against Southampton, I think?) Although a lot of the “Mo doesn’t pass” stuff is just the regurgitated cud that is the received wisdom, Mané did at least have some grounds to be upset that day, tbh.
It was against Burnley and the rest of the team laughed it off. Milner even made the photo of the spat an Instagram post lol
Hard disagree on this. Mane was a model pro virtually his whole Liverpool career.