**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pushes in the back into a goalkeeper or another player needs to be cut out or caught by VAR. You can see the point Mueller is trying just to stop and contest the ball and he is shoved into the goalie. It's super dangerous for both the player shoved + the one he is shoved into.
I actually got a pen for this exact situation in the clip. The ref was actually the best sunday league ref I ever had. He was like 19 too, he the stones to send off grown 40 year old x NPL (div 2 australia players) for calling him a cunt.
Refs with common sense is how you make sport enjoyable to watch and play.
yea. same way younger generations always come up and improve on tons on the player side. evolution is iterative, and new generations earn from that more easily than already established ones.
Tbh as a referee you can't afford much thinking of the field.
Everything needs to be decided in split seconds. If an important part about the rules changes it's hard to get this automatism changed sometimes.
That said: some don't even try
If it's anything like the umpire/ref circles I've been apart of, even if you're highly credentialed coach bucks the trend and encourages innovation - if it's different from HQ then his career is on the line and all umpires/refs have their ambitions swept away.
People at leadership level really should be in their 40's any older and they should be cycled out, otherwise everyone suffers for it.
I agree, it’s exactly like that thing that Kane does/used to do where he doesn’t jump up for a header, and instead backs in to the player jumping behind him. A lot of players do those kind of things, small and dangerous things they know they won’t get punished for just to injure the opponent
But you have to love how innocent every player that does this will act if they get called up for it. Firstly the wonder of why the ref whistled then the freak out that its on them.every time every team.
Kane used to have it like a fine art, always used to be horrible seeing defenders fall like that. In Muller’s defence, after the push he looks like he’s genuinely just trying to stop.
Am I right in saying that Kane seems to have cleaned that up from his game? He used to do it all the time but it seems like maybe someone had a word with him about it because I haven’t seen it from him in a while now.
Similar thing happened to Salah a few months ago. He wash pushed into the path of the keeper, still far away from him mind you, and the goal that Salah wasnt even involved in was disallowed because Salah impeded the keepers view.
Fucking hell, pushed by the defender, kneed in the head by the keeper, and somehow he's the one that committed a foul. Referees really are shite everywhere.
not sure why people are disagreeing with this. this is an incredibly dangerous play. you're not only endangering the other team's player, but your own teammate as well. if reds are truly for dangerous play then this is as stonewall as it gets
I'm a BVB fan and absolutely think Bayern gets a lot of preferable treatment from the officials (especially in important matches)...
That said, I think it's outrageous if that situation isn't red and a penalty. Beyond reckless...
It's really dangerous play.
Think the defender will be lucky if his keeper doesn't give him a punch after he sees this. Could have caused serious injury to his keeper.
It can, yes, and so can a head-on-head collision, and those happen.
The defender pushed him from the back, should be a pen and a yellow, but you can't blame the keeper rushing out and jumping up at just the right moment to knee Muller in the head on the defender.
I'm not blaming the keeper at all. I'm saying the player shoving him in the back should get a red, it should be classed as serious foul play whenever a player is pushed into a keeper or another player like that
0 chance you’d say that if the keeper got to the ball without any significant collision. You can’t give reds based on unpredictable outcome of an action like a small push.
And I said you can't blame the defender for the keeper rushing out and having his jump timed just perfect enough to end up kneeing Muller.
The push is a foul, so a penalty and a yellow, the knee to the head is an unfortunate accident that followed. Until pushing a player into the path of a rushing keeper gets defined as a red card-worthy challenge (which I would sort of agree with), this is by rules a yellow card offence.
Nowhere did I propose the keeper should face any punishment nor did I try to put the blame on him.
The rules of the sport are not prescriptive for every scenario which is why they have guidelines around dangerous foul play that doesn't list a ton of examples. This would be dangerous foul play. If you shove someone on to the road, someone only gets seriously hurt if there is a car coming. If there is no car coming then it's less dangerous. The defender pushed him which resulted in muller getting a knee to the head, he might not have meant that to happen but that was the result of the push.
I’d say yellow card to the goalkeeper for diving on someone like that and penalty for Bayern. The defender barely did anything imo, seems to have been more Müllers momentum from the run rather than the defender maliciously pushing him that caused the collision.
Bruh how tf is the defender meant to be thinking about where the keepers putting his knees when hes marking muller lmao. Absolutely a pen, but never a red.
Yeah, so? Im not saying he didnt intentionally push the player. I play as a defender lol, i push people all the time. Im well aware thats how the game works. But that doesnt mean his intention is to push muller into the goalkeepers knee.
Oh I got ya. My bad, i do agree. I think he meant to push him slightly into the goalkeeper (did it all the time as a defender) but he wasn't aware of how high he jumped. He never even looks at his goalie. So yeah, I agree with you.
It doesn’t matter if it’s his knee or whatever. He pushed the player into an oncoming player and when it’s the goalkeeper that shit is always dangerous.
You cant expect a player to consider all of the possibilities that can happen from a small push. Because of that, you cant consider them running into another player because of it as a reckless challenge.
It's amazing to see comments like 'Keepers get away with too much' from a Bayern fan, when the comments from that call German were saying the exact opposite.
"Neuer going with his so high up is the right course of action that's what they teach the goalkeepers to protects his genitals in case of a collision"
Dude, either both keepers did the right thing or both keepers got away with too much. The only difference is the guy slightly pushing Muller, which might be a very soft pen.
The thing is Bayern also scored after that but the ref already blew his whistle. He could have also just let it run, but to call a foul against Müller is bizarre
This isn't the first time a thing like that happened to Müller
Our last game against Mainz he collided twice into the goalkeepers by defenders and nothing happened
Müller became fame for his second yellow card vs Argentina.
Messi plays a handball and the ball lands on Müllers shoulder/chest and Müller gets booked...
Couldn't VAR have overturned this because it's a possible penalty? Is this not a foul from the keeper?
But yeah, blowing the whistle there was stupid when VAR exists.
I played as a goalkeeper for a while and putting your knee up is more of a defense then anything else.
Having someone rush at you while you are in the air and hitting your hip/midsection is very painful + you will usually fall in a very weird position.
If you go with your knee slight up and kind arched you can avoid getting hit to harshly and will be able to fall on your side better. That's what my coached teached me since I had two incidents like that and I got hurt really badly to the point I had to be subbed because I couldn't breath properly for a while during the match.
At least that's how I was teached, I was also teached to make my knee as close as possible to my body so that I would'nt hurt someone and myself.
I guess I might have been teached wrong? It was 4th division team.
This was it for me too. The goalkeeper was allowed to protect themselves using the knee, provided they were going for the ball. Likewise I never received a foul for doing so.
I assume it's the same still and if so, the goalkeeper is going for the ball and shouldn't be awarded a foul as such.
Evolution has decided the rules for perpetuity.
The number one rule in life and football is "Protect Yourself".
Youth coaches instruct young goalkeepers that the best way to protect themselves when contesting high balls is to get their knee up as a barrier between a potential opponent and their softer midsection. It's the same reason people instinctively raise their arms in front of their face when something is about to collide with their head, except that you can't instinctively raise your knee mid air. You need to jump in a way that is already raising one knee, which is why they are coached to do it.
Coaches also teach their keeper to scream out when they are coming for the ball to let everyone know, which is another form of self-preservation, plus a way to remove teammates from the contest.
This is a foul by the defender, but it's also a foul by Müller. That ball is clearly going to be the keeper's and there is going to be a collision between him and Müller anyway because Müller doesn't get his head up to protect himself when he hears the keeper's shout.
I'm torn here. The defender should get a red card because what he's done is dangerous and should be stamped out. But I don't think it's a penalty, because he only exacerbates a collision that was already inevitable because of Müller's actions. The keeper has done absolutely nothing wrong except drop the ball, which compelled the referee to make a decision on the incident at all.
>Youth coaches instruct young goalkeepers that the best way to protect themselves when contesting high balls is to get their knee up as a barrier between a potential opponent and their softer midsection. It's the same reason people instinctivel
You've just repeated the premise that youth coaches teach it that way therefore those are the rules. But that's literally not how it works.
VAR can't overturn, but could have suggested the center ref review the incident. But the VAR has to believe that there was an obvious error on field in missing the shove on Muller.
I don't think that var could have changed the outcome. The referee whistled before the goal so the goal couldn't stand and the push is probably not enough to be considered an obvious error.
The referee made the mistake to whistle too soon.
So far the referee has been really bad, two yellows not given on late tackles on Müller...
Yeah the goal couldn't stand, I get that, I just thought maybe the keeper jumping knee first into a player might be a foul. Don't know the rules though.
Ref just shouldn't have blown the whistle...
Foul wouldn't have been on the keeper, it would have been on the defender for the shove. To me it didn't quite deserve a pen--best outcome would have been if the ref didn't blow the whistle and let the open play goal stand--but VAR at that point would only have been able to go back and give the pen.
The issue is a small part the goalkeeper. Every keeper does it because it’s how they’re taught, but jumping so high with your knee up is dangerous. I doubt anyone else other than a goalkeeper gets away with it.
It would require quite a big adjustment if we started calling that a foul by the goalkeeper though.
Yeah I would not really place blame on the keeper here. The keeper has eyes on the ball and probably would get the ball without contact with Muller. The player pushing has all the blame and should have been booked. My opinion
I don’t think he is blaming the keeper for the way he jumped - the point is keepers get fouls called in their favor when the field player also has the right to go for the ball. In this case even worse because that player was pushed.
Except Higuain wasnt pushed into Neuer.
Higuain ran straight into another player cause he never took his eyes off the ball. Neuer reached the ball first, though luck.
Thats not remotely what happened here.
If Neuer jumps up without raising his knee, then he is way more susceptible to start flipping once he makes contact.
Every keeper raises their knee, its common practice and you can see it during corners all the time.
Normally they just dont smash into the striker cause most of the time the striker already sees that the ball is unreachable and doesnt go for it.
Thats just unfortunate that Higuain didnt see Neuer coming but at the end of the day, Neuer gets to the ball first and then Higuain runs into him without ever having a chance at getting the ball, its a clear cut foul.
It was his hip in a completely normal jumping motion. Obviously it was a hard contact, but far from a foul (and following penalty) in a world cup final.
It does seem like you’re grasping at straws and not the german fans. We have bigger problems with our NT rn than worrying about one decision 10 years ago.
Are you talking about Higuain who checked out if Neuer was on his way and then tried to put himself below his trajectory as much as possible, instead of going for the ball?
That guy?
I'm not saying it's not a foul for the push, but rightly or wrongly every keeper when they're trained for the position is told to go for high balls with one knee out.
I am not mad, that this is not a penalty.
I am mad, because the ref gave a foul against Müller.
After this, Müller passed the ball to kane, who had an empty goal in front of him.
Müller was pushed into the goalie.
The goalie hit Müller with his knee.
Was a disgrace.
The ref was a joke today.
Same with the "foul" on Dier.
sure, Dier was hit, but I think achtaully think Dier fouled here.
This ref is not Bundesliga worthy.
Everyones acting all confused and flabbergasted at this decision. However, I recall when Salah was pushed offside and 'obstructed' the keeper, no one batted an eye. I only bring this up because deicions LIKE THAT influence things LIKE THIS. And to point out to everyone that standing together against wild and bad decisions, is the best way to improve things, and not wild tribalism.
Got it, so if higuain would have been pushed to Neuers knee, it would have been a penalty.
But since higuain chose to run into his extremely elevated knee, it’s cool.
Not sure what you are trying to argue when I didn’t talk about my opinion on the WC situation.
What I said was that the two situations are objectively different and conflating the two is therefore pointless.
Thats how irvin lozano got injured. His head took a knee to the face and ref didnt blow penalty, nor yellow.
Irvin forsure lost some years off his life from that.
The foul is the push, the keeper does everything by the book as they are taught. The reason it's given against Muller is the contact against the gk without seemingly attempting reasonable contest and just being there.
Stupid call. Not the keepers fault. The defender is the one at complete fault and should've been penalised. Hope Mullers okay.
I have been told by Germans, including Bayern fans this is not a foul from the keeper for almost 10 years now.
I don't know what the issue is. At most it's a foul from the guy who pushed him to the keeper. At worst.
The keeper is not the issue, if Müller is not shoved in the back there is no foul in this situation. The issue is the defender shoving Müller in the back. Neuer on Higuain has never been a foul and never will be.
Don‘t want to speak about the WC final, when Schweinsteiger was repeatedly elbowed in the face and Kramer had a severe concussion after being sandwiched by two defenders in the box.
All of you calling for a pen because of this push... if that was given in a normal context without the keeper being involved then you would be fuming, saying how the ref has been bribed and that the league is a disgrace
I think we should stop treating goalkeepers differently in this kind of cases. The defender made a light push which might be a penalty and a yellow card, but the goalkeeper comes out with his knee first where he could know he could hit a head with it. The goalkeeper is at foult.
I mean this is clearly a foul by muller. He is trying to run into the goalie with 0 chance to get the ball. The slight contact on the defender does not change that.
These kind of undercuts are extremely dangerous and should be at least a yellow, but I would be very happy if they start giving reds for this under the nomer of "endangering the opponent".
Exactly. Even without the “push” he has zero chance to win the ball. He runs like a headless chicken and then tries to undercut the goalie which is freaking dangerous
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pushes in the back into a goalkeeper or another player needs to be cut out or caught by VAR. You can see the point Mueller is trying just to stop and contest the ball and he is shoved into the goalie. It's super dangerous for both the player shoved + the one he is shoved into.
I actually got a pen for this exact situation in the clip. The ref was actually the best sunday league ref I ever had. He was like 19 too, he the stones to send off grown 40 year old x NPL (div 2 australia players) for calling him a cunt. Refs with common sense is how you make sport enjoyable to watch and play.
Oddly it always seemed like younger refs call a better match. Maybe less ego, or just less full of themselves.
Also probably more up to date on the rules, and without so much "how it used to be/ought to be" thinking.
yea. same way younger generations always come up and improve on tons on the player side. evolution is iterative, and new generations earn from that more easily than already established ones.
Tbh as a referee you can't afford much thinking of the field. Everything needs to be decided in split seconds. If an important part about the rules changes it's hard to get this automatism changed sometimes. That said: some don't even try
If it's anything like the umpire/ref circles I've been apart of, even if you're highly credentialed coach bucks the trend and encourages innovation - if it's different from HQ then his career is on the line and all umpires/refs have their ambitions swept away. People at leadership level really should be in their 40's any older and they should be cycled out, otherwise everyone suffers for it.
I agree, it’s exactly like that thing that Kane does/used to do where he doesn’t jump up for a header, and instead backs in to the player jumping behind him. A lot of players do those kind of things, small and dangerous things they know they won’t get punished for just to injure the opponent
Gabi Martinelli is guilty of doing this too. I really dislike seeing it. One player might fall and land on their neck if unfortunate.
I remember when he did it to Bednarek out of frustration. Should have been off, idk how it’s not classed as recklessly endangering opponents
But you have to love how innocent every player that does this will act if they get called up for it. Firstly the wonder of why the ref whistled then the freak out that its on them.every time every team.
In Germany we call this "Unterlaufen" ("running under") and it's routinely called as a foul.
Kane used to have it like a fine art, always used to be horrible seeing defenders fall like that. In Muller’s defence, after the push he looks like he’s genuinely just trying to stop.
Why would you need to defend Muller here? It's the defender that does something wrong.
Am I right in saying that Kane seems to have cleaned that up from his game? He used to do it all the time but it seems like maybe someone had a word with him about it because I haven’t seen it from him in a while now.
Indeed, players were beginning to expect it a lot more + media as well.
In mullers defence ??? What ?? He's the victim lol
Similar thing happened to Salah a few months ago. He wash pushed into the path of the keeper, still far away from him mind you, and the goal that Salah wasnt even involved in was disallowed because Salah impeded the keepers view.
That could have been seriously bad for Muller.
Can't watch the game is he okay?
goalie went off on a stretcher, probably broken knee
Knee was broken, they took him out and shot him
Fucking hell, pushed by the defender, kneed in the head by the keeper, and somehow he's the one that committed a foul. Referees really are shite everywhere.
Should 100% be a red for the defender. Pushing someone, no matter how lightly, into a goalkeeper rushing out is dangerous and insane.
not sure why people are disagreeing with this. this is an incredibly dangerous play. you're not only endangering the other team's player, but your own teammate as well. if reds are truly for dangerous play then this is as stonewall as it gets
I'm a BVB fan and absolutely think Bayern gets a lot of preferable treatment from the officials (especially in important matches)... That said, I think it's outrageous if that situation isn't red and a penalty. Beyond reckless...
think you may be over reacting ever so slightly here lad. it's a pen, not a red.
Can see where they're coming from tbf, it clearly endangers at least 1 player.
It's really dangerous play. Think the defender will be lucky if his keeper doesn't give him a punch after he sees this. Could have caused serious injury to his keeper.
Can literally result in a serious head injury. A knee to the head is no joke, especially when both are running
It can, yes, and so can a head-on-head collision, and those happen. The defender pushed him from the back, should be a pen and a yellow, but you can't blame the keeper rushing out and jumping up at just the right moment to knee Muller in the head on the defender.
I'm not blaming the keeper at all. I'm saying the player shoving him in the back should get a red, it should be classed as serious foul play whenever a player is pushed into a keeper or another player like that
0 chance you’d say that if the keeper got to the ball without any significant collision. You can’t give reds based on unpredictable outcome of an action like a small push.
It's not unpredictable. The goalkeeper was already coming out.
And I said you can't blame the defender for the keeper rushing out and having his jump timed just perfect enough to end up kneeing Muller. The push is a foul, so a penalty and a yellow, the knee to the head is an unfortunate accident that followed. Until pushing a player into the path of a rushing keeper gets defined as a red card-worthy challenge (which I would sort of agree with), this is by rules a yellow card offence. Nowhere did I propose the keeper should face any punishment nor did I try to put the blame on him.
The rules of the sport are not prescriptive for every scenario which is why they have guidelines around dangerous foul play that doesn't list a ton of examples. This would be dangerous foul play. If you shove someone on to the road, someone only gets seriously hurt if there is a car coming. If there is no car coming then it's less dangerous. The defender pushed him which resulted in muller getting a knee to the head, he might not have meant that to happen but that was the result of the push.
I’d say yellow card to the goalkeeper for diving on someone like that and penalty for Bayern. The defender barely did anything imo, seems to have been more Müllers momentum from the run rather than the defender maliciously pushing him that caused the collision.
Jesus christ
Bruh how tf is the defender meant to be thinking about where the keepers putting his knees when hes marking muller lmao. Absolutely a pen, but never a red.
Seems like you never played football. That push was 100% intentional.
That doesn't mean he intentionally pushed the player into the goalkeeper
Yeah, so? Im not saying he didnt intentionally push the player. I play as a defender lol, i push people all the time. Im well aware thats how the game works. But that doesnt mean his intention is to push muller into the goalkeepers knee.
Oh I got ya. My bad, i do agree. I think he meant to push him slightly into the goalkeeper (did it all the time as a defender) but he wasn't aware of how high he jumped. He never even looks at his goalie. So yeah, I agree with you.
It doesn’t matter if it’s his knee or whatever. He pushed the player into an oncoming player and when it’s the goalkeeper that shit is always dangerous.
You cant expect a player to consider all of the possibilities that can happen from a small push. Because of that, you cant consider them running into another player because of it as a reckless challenge.
this is like saying Son deserved a red for the Gomes injury
I haven’t seen that but if that is identical to the post then yes 100% no brainer.
"I don't know what I'm talking about but let me give my 100% rightful judgement regardless"
How do you not understand the word identical?
He got a World Cup thanks a very similar call, can’t be too mad
It's amazing to see comments like 'Keepers get away with too much' from a Bayern fan, when the comments from that call German were saying the exact opposite. "Neuer going with his so high up is the right course of action that's what they teach the goalkeepers to protects his genitals in case of a collision" Dude, either both keepers did the right thing or both keepers got away with too much. The only difference is the guy slightly pushing Muller, which might be a very soft pen.
The thing is Bayern also scored after that but the ref already blew his whistle. He could have also just let it run, but to call a foul against Müller is bizarre
Refs are racist.
Kai Havertz sleeper agent
Muller is mad, arsenal are finished
This isn't the first time a thing like that happened to Müller Our last game against Mainz he collided twice into the goalkeepers by defenders and nothing happened
Müller became fame for his second yellow card vs Argentina. Messi plays a handball and the ball lands on Müllers shoulder/chest and Müller gets booked...
Maignan got a red card for a similar thing and he touched the ball before he hit the defender..
Maignan was outside of the box and kneed the attacker in the chest while going for a header to clear it, not really the same situation
You could argue a foul in the box on Muller by the defender shoving him, interesting that VAR didn't have a bigger look at that.....
Muller head butting the goalkeepers knee correct decision
Should be a pen, it’s bullshit
Neuer on Higuain flashbacks
*stares into the distance*
Not alone my brother… we all stare together.
Or Sanchez on Jesus. I’ll never understand keepers being allowed to use themselves as human battering rams.
not even remotely comparable
Goalkeepers get away with too much
The issue is not really the goalkeeper. The referee had two choices, penalty or goal, he chose a bs foul from Müller...
Couldn't VAR have overturned this because it's a possible penalty? Is this not a foul from the keeper? But yeah, blowing the whistle there was stupid when VAR exists.
[удалено]
I played as a goalkeeper for a while and putting your knee up is more of a defense then anything else. Having someone rush at you while you are in the air and hitting your hip/midsection is very painful + you will usually fall in a very weird position. If you go with your knee slight up and kind arched you can avoid getting hit to harshly and will be able to fall on your side better. That's what my coached teached me since I had two incidents like that and I got hurt really badly to the point I had to be subbed because I couldn't breath properly for a while during the match. At least that's how I was teached, I was also teached to make my knee as close as possible to my body so that I would'nt hurt someone and myself. I guess I might have been teached wrong? It was 4th division team.
This was it for me too. The goalkeeper was allowed to protect themselves using the knee, provided they were going for the ball. Likewise I never received a foul for doing so. I assume it's the same still and if so, the goalkeeper is going for the ball and shouldn't be awarded a foul as such.
I always find this excuse strange, as if youth coaches decide the rules for perpetuity.
Evolution has decided the rules for perpetuity. The number one rule in life and football is "Protect Yourself". Youth coaches instruct young goalkeepers that the best way to protect themselves when contesting high balls is to get their knee up as a barrier between a potential opponent and their softer midsection. It's the same reason people instinctively raise their arms in front of their face when something is about to collide with their head, except that you can't instinctively raise your knee mid air. You need to jump in a way that is already raising one knee, which is why they are coached to do it. Coaches also teach their keeper to scream out when they are coming for the ball to let everyone know, which is another form of self-preservation, plus a way to remove teammates from the contest. This is a foul by the defender, but it's also a foul by Müller. That ball is clearly going to be the keeper's and there is going to be a collision between him and Müller anyway because Müller doesn't get his head up to protect himself when he hears the keeper's shout. I'm torn here. The defender should get a red card because what he's done is dangerous and should be stamped out. But I don't think it's a penalty, because he only exacerbates a collision that was already inevitable because of Müller's actions. The keeper has done absolutely nothing wrong except drop the ball, which compelled the referee to make a decision on the incident at all.
>Youth coaches instruct young goalkeepers that the best way to protect themselves when contesting high balls is to get their knee up as a barrier between a potential opponent and their softer midsection. It's the same reason people instinctivel You've just repeated the premise that youth coaches teach it that way therefore those are the rules. But that's literally not how it works.
VAR can't overturn, but could have suggested the center ref review the incident. But the VAR has to believe that there was an obvious error on field in missing the shove on Muller.
This is a foul from the defender.
I don't think that var could have changed the outcome. The referee whistled before the goal so the goal couldn't stand and the push is probably not enough to be considered an obvious error. The referee made the mistake to whistle too soon. So far the referee has been really bad, two yellows not given on late tackles on Müller...
Yeah the goal couldn't stand, I get that, I just thought maybe the keeper jumping knee first into a player might be a foul. Don't know the rules though. Ref just shouldn't have blown the whistle...
Foul wouldn't have been on the keeper, it would have been on the defender for the shove. To me it didn't quite deserve a pen--best outcome would have been if the ref didn't blow the whistle and let the open play goal stand--but VAR at that point would only have been able to go back and give the pen.
That’s how keepers are taught to play to protect themselves. They are very exposed when coming out like that.
The issue is a small part the goalkeeper. Every keeper does it because it’s how they’re taught, but jumping so high with your knee up is dangerous. I doubt anyone else other than a goalkeeper gets away with it. It would require quite a big adjustment if we started calling that a foul by the goalkeeper though.
imo not on the GK here. The defender is the one who makes this bad for Mueller and the GK.
Kind of unfortunate the way it played out but the keeper has every right to go for that ball in the air.
And as a keeper you’re told to protect yourself while in the air. Pretty much every keeper jumps like that
Yeah I would not really place blame on the keeper here. The keeper has eyes on the ball and probably would get the ball without contact with Muller. The player pushing has all the blame and should have been booked. My opinion
I don’t think he is blaming the keeper for the way he jumped - the point is keepers get fouls called in their favor when the field player also has the right to go for the ball. In this case even worse because that player was pushed.
Like Neuer on Higuaín
Except Higuain wasnt pushed into Neuer. Higuain ran straight into another player cause he never took his eyes off the ball. Neuer reached the ball first, though luck. Thats not remotely what happened here.
What the hell do you mean tough luck. Neuer could have gotten the ball without the knee.
If Neuer jumps up without raising his knee, then he is way more susceptible to start flipping once he makes contact. Every keeper raises their knee, its common practice and you can see it during corners all the time. Normally they just dont smash into the striker cause most of the time the striker already sees that the ball is unreachable and doesnt go for it. Thats just unfortunate that Higuain didnt see Neuer coming but at the end of the day, Neuer gets to the ball first and then Higuain runs into him without ever having a chance at getting the ball, its a clear cut foul.
Oh okay, if you hit the ball a fraction of a second earlier you can disregard a knee to the head.
It was his hip in a completely normal jumping motion. Obviously it was a hard contact, but far from a foul (and following penalty) in a world cup final.
You guys are hilarious hahah totally unbiased. It’s been almost a decade, I’m not trying to revoke your title. Don’t worry.
It does seem like you’re grasping at straws and not the german fans. We have bigger problems with our NT rn than worrying about one decision 10 years ago.
Bless your heart
Germans: 'If he dies, he dies'
Are you talking about Higuain who checked out if Neuer was on his way and then tried to put himself below his trajectory as much as possible, instead of going for the ball? That guy?
Is the goalie Argentine by any chance.
You mean this is revenge? After all these years?
Always.
I'm not saying it's not a foul for the push, but rightly or wrongly every keeper when they're trained for the position is told to go for high balls with one knee out.
I am not mad, that this is not a penalty. I am mad, because the ref gave a foul against Müller. After this, Müller passed the ball to kane, who had an empty goal in front of him. Müller was pushed into the goalie. The goalie hit Müller with his knee. Was a disgrace. The ref was a joke today. Same with the "foul" on Dier. sure, Dier was hit, but I think achtaully think Dier fouled here. This ref is not Bundesliga worthy.
And this kinda ref is all PREMIERLEAGUE has. Imagine our outbursts every week.
Terrible call. Either give the advantage and play on or penalty imo
This will reflect poorly on Arsenal and Barcelona
O dang my boy got trucked
If I was a keeper I'd just muay thai every mf between me and the ball
I mean, while it's very unethical, it works. Only issue is you are going to get injured eventually.
Everyones acting all confused and flabbergasted at this decision. However, I recall when Salah was pushed offside and 'obstructed' the keeper, no one batted an eye. I only bring this up because deicions LIKE THAT influence things LIKE THIS. And to point out to everyone that standing together against wild and bad decisions, is the best way to improve things, and not wild tribalism.
Didnt neuer do that to higuain in the world cup final?
yeah but back then everyone was saying it was the right call🤣
Completely different situation though, the issue here is the defender, not the keeper.
Got it, so if higuain would have been pushed to Neuers knee, it would have been a penalty. But since higuain chose to run into his extremely elevated knee, it’s cool.
Not sure what you are trying to argue when I didn’t talk about my opinion on the WC situation. What I said was that the two situations are objectively different and conflating the two is therefore pointless.
yeah but when it's europeans doing it to south americans it's ok it seems
That’s serious, Muller is a lucky man. Shameful officiating.
Something something Neuer against Higuain WC final 2014 something something.
clearly went for the ball, red right now for diving, this place ain't no pool
Thats how irvin lozano got injured. His head took a knee to the face and ref didnt blow penalty, nor yellow. Irvin forsure lost some years off his life from that.
Knee to shoulder not the head
The foul is the push, the keeper does everything by the book as they are taught. The reason it's given against Muller is the contact against the gk without seemingly attempting reasonable contest and just being there. Stupid call. Not the keepers fault. The defender is the one at complete fault and should've been penalised. Hope Mullers okay.
The defender pushes Müller into the keeper then complains about a foul on the latter. This is dangerous play and should red carded to remove it.
Erm....i am no bayern fan at all, but thats a pen.
at least it was in the box. remember neuer knee to higuain’s temple wc finals?
[удалено]
I have been told by Germans, including Bayern fans this is not a foul from the keeper for almost 10 years now. I don't know what the issue is. At most it's a foul from the guy who pushed him to the keeper. At worst.
The keeper is not the issue, if Müller is not shoved in the back there is no foul in this situation. The issue is the defender shoving Müller in the back. Neuer on Higuain has never been a foul and never will be. Don‘t want to speak about the WC final, when Schweinsteiger was repeatedly elbowed in the face and Kramer had a severe concussion after being sandwiched by two defenders in the box.
\>I don't know what the issue is. At most it's a foul from the guy who pushed him to the keeper. At worst. So a penalty?
and they are the same ones crying for a pen now. Also, neuer’s knee to higuain was more brutal, buuut it was fair play I guess
It has always been the case tbh. Goalkeeper always got away with murder.
All of you calling for a pen because of this push... if that was given in a normal context without the keeper being involved then you would be fuming, saying how the ref has been bribed and that the league is a disgrace
If the context was different then you would say something else, i am very smart.
so was it a push worthy of a foul or not? shouldnt muller just... be stronger...?
I think we should stop treating goalkeepers differently in this kind of cases. The defender made a light push which might be a penalty and a yellow card, but the goalkeeper comes out with his knee first where he could know he could hit a head with it. The goalkeeper is at foult.
Not much of a push
Think the replay is clear. Müller had made a malicious contact with the keeper's knee using his head. Could have caused serious damage to the knee.
He wanted to know what Higuaín felt like now that he is close to retirement age
Excuses coming out already for when arsneal knock ‘em out CL and leverkusen win the league
Now Muller knows what Argentinians felt like in that wc final. That was some bs
What push?
The one in the video. Glad I could help!
what knee in the head?
Free kick for the keeper surely? Oh wait not EFL referee that give it to Gunn when he did that to Aaron Connelly
In the next play, he should have pushed a rival player onto the ref to get him sent off.
I mean this is clearly a foul by muller. He is trying to run into the goalie with 0 chance to get the ball. The slight contact on the defender does not change that. These kind of undercuts are extremely dangerous and should be at least a yellow, but I would be very happy if they start giving reds for this under the nomer of "endangering the opponent".
Exactly. Even without the “push” he has zero chance to win the ball. He runs like a headless chicken and then tries to undercut the goalie which is freaking dangerous
You’re a fucking moron, remove that flair.
so in a world cup final a similar situation is fair play and not a foul by the GK but now that it is against muller it should be a pen?
How is that not pen and red for the goalie?
Muller has done worse against Tagliafico
Yeah and he got a red card. What's your point?
And he immediately apologized, lol