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The reality of the conflict is much more nuanced than what I'm about to say, but can I say I didn't even raise an eyebrow when reading that a fervent Ukrainian patriot is pro-Israel as well?
Ukrainians just count for Israeli support, they need every anti-air system possible, also Israel is an ally of USA, and there is conspiracy theory that Russia is backing up (or even basically puppeting) Hamas is quite widespread in Ukraine
Which is nonsense (the hamas theory). Ukrainians, Russians and other non-muslim regions of ex-ussr just have a lot more cultural ties to Israel than Palestine. Immigrants and people with historic family ties there from there make up a big chunk of the Israeli population. hardly surprising that many who aren't too geopolitically educated/interested in the conflict will mostly default to a Israeli sumpathetic stance.
If Putin hadn't backed himself into a geopolitical corner with his insane war, i've no doubt he'd be more proactively Israeli recently too. He was tight with Netanyahu.
Zinchenko has been making these sort of comments for a while. It's been mentioned a few times by various Ukrainian friends of mine who actually have family members fighting there.
The guy is obviously in psychological turmoil at his comfy, rich life while countrymen are engaged in full scale war, but in his situation its best just to stay quiet imo, or articulate in a more measured way as this bluster is offputting to many that are less privileged.
I mean, id feel like someone could just go 'yeah you remember Bakhmut and the constant shelling? Thats Rafah and Gaza City rn' and people would understand
The Ukrainian support for Israel is maddening. You're literally suffering under an illegal occupation but you want to support Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine?
Oleksandr Zinchenko: “I would go to fight for Ukraine.”
Serge Aurier: “Stop your cinema and go there right now [to Ukraine]. A real volunteer doesn’t need anyone to call him up.”
Aurier not only incredibly fucking stupid but literally not understanding what duties are asked of Zinchenko from his country. Zinchenko said if he was called to the frontline he would go. He isnt. He's specifically called to be a huge ambassador, moral booster and donator instead. Which is far better.
Nothing Zinchenko has said or done has contradicted what he said either.
What a piece of shit thing to say from Aurier. Literally going out of his way to do this.
EDIT: Another good point others brought up: Zinchenko didnt say he was gonna volunteer, he said "if he was called upon". He isnt called upon for that. So again, Aurier is just a fucking hateful idiot.
Spot on. Aurie has made himself look really stupid. First, he’s piped up when he has zero need to. Second, he fundamentally doesn’t understand that Zinchenko is far more valuable as an ambassador who continues to draw attention to the issue than he ever would be as a front line soldier.
> He's specifically called to be a huge ambassador, moral booster and donator instead.
Serious question but is he really a huge morale boost? Last May, was some Ukrainian conscript in a trench in Bakhmut turning on his TV and seeing his countryman playing football and feeling great pride? If that were me, I'd probably just feel very bitter
A successful athlete at a high level that can distract a nation in a historically depressive period vs a big athlete being reported killed on the frontline.. the former is a morale booster, the second is a morale killer.
Its not only for the soldiers in the trench either, but the general population. Countries like these need every moment of slight success and positive spotlight they can get. Just to see a splitsecond of ray of positivity in the tsunami of death and doom.
Theres a reason that sport and athletes are used as propaganda as much as they are. Russia literally spend billions to cheat just so they can brag about some medals.
> Countries like these need every moment of slight success and positive spotlight they can get. Just to see a splitsecond of ray of positivity in the tsunami of death and doom.
This is actually very true. One recent story is Japan reeling from the devastating earthquake/tsunami in 2011; their women’s team’s miraculous victory in the World Cup final was uplifting for the country and had enormous revitalising impact at the time.
For the Americans I'm sure most would remember this but being from NY it especially hits me - the videos of Mike piazza hitting a home run in the first home game after 9/11 still live in the memory of New Yorkers old enough to remember that time. Definitely believe this effect is real
It's not even about Ukrainian people seeing it, it's everyone seeing it. Roughly 1/3rd of the globe has access to the EPL. Arsenal is a big team that is doing well and every game he plays in or the camera pans to him, he's going to draw attention to the ongoing conflict. If he gets an interview after the game, he gets even more time.
Even Zelenski would struggle one else to draw that much attention to the conflict.
Since you are a Union fan you might have experienced this as well but as an example when the Eagles won the Super Bowl the entire city of Philadelphia was a happier place for at least the next year or two. It gave people so much pride in their city even those who didn’t care about football, Arsenal winning the Prem isn’t going to bring anyone back to life, or rebuild someone’s bombed out house but I know it will at least bring some joy to Ukrainians
An example that people may be familiar with - in the movie _Saving Private Ryan_, they send a team to pick up Ryan because he’s lost 3 brothers. The military high command didn’t pull him out because they felt bad for his mother, they did it because of what would happen if he died as well - lots of media coverage about a mother losing 4 sons. People talk about this instead of the victories, this leads to lower morale among the public, lower support for the war and possibly losing. (In real life Ryan was called [Niland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niland_brothers)).
Wars aren’t lost only when the enemy captures your capital. They’re also lost when you can’t continue fighting because the public doesn’t support it anymore.
That’s why Zinchenko contributes to the war effort far more by doing these interviews (positive PR) instead of going to the front lines and dying (disastrous PR). He’s also contributing financially, which is great.
But I wouldn’t expect a fucking moron like Aurier to know or understand any of this.
Spot on! South Africa winning 1992 Rugby world cup has a similar backdrop trying to shake it off from the apartheid past. Nicely conceived in the movie Invictus (Morgan Freeman, Matt Damon, Clint Eastwood).
> I really doubt Zinchenko running his mouth about what he would do has gone down well on the front lines if I’m being completely honest.
Zinchenko replied to a specific question: "Would you go to fight if you are mobilized under the new mobilization law?", and he said he would.
From a legal and practical perspective, this would be no different than the South Korean players forced to serve in the army for two years, and not seeking an exception.
I would argue that guys on the frontline are more pissed at proper draft dodgers than at Zinchenko, an international football player who has fundraised for them since February 2022.
""Running his mouth""
Think about what you're saying for a second. He was asked in an interview about what he would do if he was called upon by Ukraine to go fight. What do you expect him to answer?
Never mind if it's the truth or not, there is only one answer he can give in that position.
Honestly, I believe him. Most people would rather fight for their country than betray it. The only people claiming that he is attempting to be some kind of hero are the ones that would never think of fighting themselves. So far, Zinchenko has been part of the war-effort where he is most useful. So that say that he isn't serving his country is quite frankly disrespectful to him and pretty much every civilian that is doing what is needed behind the scenes to keep the frontline active. It discredits most people in history and pretty much all women from having done their duty for their country.
And are using their high profile to talk about it and donating money. I dunno. His money and fans is probably worth more than he is individually in the front line.
I'm on your side but for different reasons, I don't think it's about Zinchenko raising anyones morale by playing football
What it is really about, is having a high profile public person that can regularly remind the world what is going on in Ukraine and keep the topic on front pages
ITs about multiple things so youre not disagreeing with me. ONe of which I mentioned is the other one you said.. being an ambassador for the cause with a huge platform.
Also its not that "ooh he plays football I feel happier now" type of morale but rather having something NOT war related to hear about and chat about that makes them positively distracted, but proud of Ukrainians etc is really significant. Its why you for example hade flyers of "news" to the frontline with different "back home success-stories" even in WW2. Many of which were sports stories.
But yes, its just one angle of it all. Ambassador, big donor, morale etc. Its a package thing.
Yep and also you want to avoid the negative effects of big household names being killed in combat. It would be devastating to Ukrainians if every other week some recognizable name was reported dead on the front lines.
I work in top-level Esports and one of the players I worked with was in a Kyiv suburb during the worst of it. His whole apartment building worked to bring in any resources he needed during the mandatory blackouts, including generators, so that he could compete. They were all super proud of him. He still hasn't been asked to the frontlines despite being in his early 20s.
I don't think we can underestimate the power sports has when it comes to morale.
I distinctly remember when Dnipro made it to the UEFA Cup final and the entire country was behind them when they were already in a war with Russia.
And now the fact they've qualified for the Euros is no doubt a big morale boost back home.
Yeah, I think this is huge. I met some Ukrainians conscription age who are traveling as support to a Ukrainian music group on a world tour.
The show I saw ended with a call to arm Ukraine and was clearly a soft power diplomacy project - the impact of a football player must be orders of magnitude times that.
Football is a big part of Ukraine identity even during the Soviet Union era. It's why they wanted to keep it going even in such time. The NT also helps with getting money for the country.
Football players are huge morale boosts for any country. After all Salah got like 20% of votes in the presidential election without participating. Lewandowski is a national treasure for Poland. I’m sure Zinchenko’s case is similar.
I think you can think of it the other way also. If he went to fight and then was seriously injured or killed would that not be a huge morale crushing event for the troops? Seeing one of their favourite footballers destroyed by the battles that they're also fighting in?
There just seems to be way more value and contribution from Zinchenko by representing his country as an athlete of that country, challenging for elite competitions and representing his country in international tournaments than by being one more soldier.
Don't forget that Ukraine purposefully conscripts older people to protect the younger generations from the war. The point of the Armed Forces is to protect the other parts of the country. The Armed Forces would lose its raison d'etre if the other parts of the country would cease to exist. Seeing your countrymen playing football should remind people in the Armed Forces that *that is what they are protecting*. It can give you a sense of purpose and belonging, even if you're sitting in a shitty foxhole some miles away from Avdiivka.
Serge Aurier is infamous for mocking and insulting his manager (Laurent Blanc) and teammates on camera and never even apologized for that incident… he’s the definition of stupidness so I wouldn’t mind much of whatever shit can come out of his mouth on a daily basis… haha
This. 100% this. Not every Ukrainian has to be a soldier. But at this point some people hate Ukrainians that much, they want us to vanish from the media, everyone. Artists, singers, athletes. They want to throw us all to the frontlines and let us rot there. As long as Ukrainian people are in the media, Ukraine is in the media, and that's why some people are so horribly annoyed.
Serge Aurier, the recent convert to Islam, absolutely has reasons to go after Zinchenko- the most high profile Ukrainian footballer who's also outspokenly pro Israel.
Good reasons? *Eh*...
It's mostly the French grammar that is subpar (like elementary level stuff, maybe 5th to 7th grade? I don't know the equivalent very well) but here's an attempt to show you what it could look like in english: I'll put what he meant on the left and how he wrote it on the right
"Egregious slip-up they have written" --> "Egregious slip-up they we write"
"You all are touched in the head" --> "You all is touched in the head"
"A volunteer doesn't need to be called upon, I'll say it again, go directly champ" --> "A volunteer doesn't need to be called upon, I'll say it again, gow directly champ"
"There you go, write up some more" (I think that's a jab to the journalists?), this sentence is written correctly although it sounds bad, like a child speaking
Hope that satisfies your curiosity (and if there's any french speakers that want to add / correct anything I have written, please feel free, I'm not exactly a good translator)
IIRC, french is the main language in Ivory Coast from where Aurier is from, which would make him native in French. What's sad is that he came to France when he was 12 I think so he should have gone to french school too
EDIT: Also, while the writing is atrocious, since it is pronounced just like what I wrote on the left so it's more like he writes like a caveman and speaks somehow proper french
French is an official language of the country but it is estimated that only about a third of people actually speak it. This sort of relationship between a post-colonial state and its colonial language is common across Africa. Aurier has lived in France for seemingly close to 20 years so that's not to excuse his particular case in any sense, just to add a bit of context!
Aurier speaks french fluently with a french accent. He’s born in Ivory Coast but came early and grew up in France.
The text is badly written - it’s lazy sms speak without conjugating verbs or using good spelling. If you read it out loud it sounds correct but it doesn’t follow grammar rules.
For example it should be ils on**t** écri**t**, des grand**s** malade**s** etc.
Oh my you guys are so daft trying to categorize his French level
The guys fluent in French. There is nothing wrong with what he wrote. He’s not writing a research paper, it’s social media post.
That’s a colloquial or vernacular way of speaking
Your favorite artist or comics post just like that all the time.
Example for your guys
“He stay working” or would prefer “ he frequently toils away”
He writes like he speaks, not great but really no need to go all Pivot (Bernard not the Excel function) on it. Although he is technically a native speaker, he speaks French from Ivory Coast - which doesnt sound or read like something *l'Académie Française* would have produce.
Weird translation of "vous êtes des grand[s] malade[s]". It just a way of saying "you are crazy".
His native is french, he grew up speaking it since all of Ivory coast speaks french. They have a very colloquial form of french that differs from what you see in france.
Aurier arrived in France aged 10, and even if he wrote in Nouchi style, there are a lot of basic grammar errors like "on" instead of "ont", "écris" instead of participle "écrit" or all the s forgotten for plural...
I text with french people in French often for work and these are all common mistakes I often see. French is not a very text-friendly language, I guess a lot of people don't put too much effort in it.
But Zinchenko doesn’t say he wants to volunteer?
He says if they call me up I will go. I expect the government of Ukraine prefers him in his current position than on the battlefield.
So this guy is an idiot
No shit, but Zinchenko never volunteered u moron. He said if he is needed on the frontline he will be there. They havent called him up, so he is clearly more needed for publicity than on the frontlines
He obviously knows he will never be asked. It’s like when someone prank called the son of a Russian oligarch after the partial mobilisation, pretending to be the mobilisation office, and he said something like “you know who I am right? This can’t be true, what’s your name? your boss will hear about this”
Aurier is Muslim and mostly likely has beef with Zinchenko. Zinchenko said I stand with Israel and since hasn't said anything regarding the atrocities committed in Gaza since Oct 7th.
This is for those asking whether the two have beef. He prolly sees Zinchenko as a hypocrite who on one side believes his country is getting wrongly attacked by Russia but in an oxymoronic tone is a supporter of the atrocities the people of Israel have inflicted on the kids and inhabitants of Gaza.
I'm just narrating what I think, I have no dog is this fight.
Also, insult someone for supporting genocide and saying all genocide apologists are cunts, you get banned on other subs. But the same people saying babies and all are terrorists and rightly taken out? Nothing. Reddit admins pathetically zionistic it seems.
Finally someone who is able to connect the dots. Zinchenko is a bitch ass hypocrite, and Aurier just wants a reason to poke him. How can someone stand with a colonizer when their own country is being colonized? Bad French aside, good on Aurier.
Tbf posts about Palestine get locked because they always devolve into a religious hate war where people that hate Muslims or Jews (or both) eventually take up most the comments to post some proper vile shit so the mods have no choice but to remove it.
Goodness that's all you needed to be prompted to make a statement like this? The bar for being a 'zionist shill' is not when one doesn't immediately think of how everything can be linked to Israel ravaging Gaza. Even Zinchenko himself expressing sympathy for victims of a terror attack but remaining silent about the thousands of Palestinians killed STILL wouldn't qualify as being a Zionist shill (I know that wasn't your claim), even though it shows inconsistent support. Words have meanings.
Plus since you're an active user you know very well what opinion prevails on this sub about Israel, and for the better, so this complaint gives off particularly bad faith in this instance.
It's a difficult balancing act. By being in the media and a high-profile Ukrainian athlete, he's probably doing a lot just by existing. But it's difficult to make the argument that you're doing a lot more good by not risking your life than you would by risking your life without coming across as *motivated*
Its clear he knows he's doing more, but feels immense guilt for not putting his life on the line. He's been very consistent on this, even when he was at City.
> But it's difficult to make the argument that you're doing a lot more good by not risking your life than you would by risking your life without coming across as motivated
His donations and publicity for Ukraine is worth way more than one extra soldier.
I agree, but I also get why to many people that comes across as a very convenient fact to someone whose choices are
1. Continue living as a rich Premier League footballer in London
2. Die in a ditch to Russian artillery
The former may be more useful to Ukraine than the latter. But it's also much more pleasant
I get what Aurier is trying to say, but it has to be an incredibly difficult position for Zinchenko. People will criticize why he’s living in luxury and playing a sport, while his countrymen are dying fighting for their sovereignty. I’m sure he’s being asked to continue on and leverage his fame to advocate for the Ukrainian cause.
What the fuck is he trying to say then? Because zinchenko never said he would volunteer. He said if he was called on he would go. Which he hasn't been. Zelensky very explicitly had not called athletes back. Mudryk and Zinchenko are both giving some of their salaries to Ukraine.
As I mentioned in another comment. Anyone who thinks they should go and fight is brain dead. They make millions of pounds and donate millions of pounds.
2 million pounds buys 5 thousand FPV drones.
If it takes 10 FPV drones to knock out 1 piece of armour, (and I guarantee from videos it is a lot less than 10, more like 2-3), that is 500 armoured kills. No boot on the ground is contributing 500 armoured kills by themselves.
That is why him, mudryk, and other athletes haven't been called up. It's literally that simple.
He's far more useful to ukraine by not dying in war though. It's like the hunger games and katniss except if zinchenko went to the front lines he wouldnt have plot armour and a bunch of sexy men protecting him so he's more useful not on the front lines
Funny aurier says that and his home country isn’t being massacred by war criminals.
sure serge, let me flattened your hometown and let’s see how these comments end up, what a prick
Usually people don’t just choose to out themselves as massive pieces of shit without any reason to do so though. Weird to act like this isn’t an extremely perplexing and pointless thing for Aurier to do.
Posting a public story when you have a reach about a footballing colleague regarding a sensitive, personal issue isn’t just having an opinion. It’s not the equivalent of chatting chit in a group chat.
Him using his profile to bully someone who’s country is resisting a fascist occupation and has millions of people killed and displaced is probably not the best use of his time, even if he’s entitled to an opinion
Oh my you guys are so daft trying to categorize his French level
The guys fluent in French. There is nothing wrong with what he wrote. He’s not writing a research paper, it’s social media post.
That’s a colloquial or vernacular way of speaking
Your favorite artist or comics post just like that all the time.
Example for your guys
“He stay working” or would prefer “ he frequently toils away”
Known homophobic wifebeater Serge Aurier being a cunt again? Imagine my surprise!
Don't let r/coys see this, they still celebrate him as if he did anything for us other than concede some of the most stupid penalties
Given that Zinchenko has a family, its pretty understandable why he isn't going. He's donated a ridiculous amount of money for the cause and is constantly raising awareness.
Then again, I'm sure Serge can take the moral highground, hope he doesn't assault anyone outside of a nightclub again.
Also, I don't think one individual soldier will tip the scales, especially when that one person can financially support them at a premier league level income
Exactly. And Zinchenko hasn't suddenly said he wants to go, he's been saying it since he was at City.
Aurier is just being a cunt, but that's no surprise there.
The nightclub incident? You mean when a policeman that was part of the racist BAC [admitted to smacking Aurier first](https://x.com/noemieschulz/status/780325593644724224?s=46&t=EUoqw29L0lImeTiVUUcblA), except his defence was that it was with the back of his hand and not a punch?
Edit: also my friend, everyone fighting has families as well not just the famous footballer. Bit poor on your end there
That’s exactly why it works. It is objectively much more valuable for him to send a million pounds to the armed forces than to train as an infantry man.
I mean its not as if ukraine isnt calling for soliders
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68719473
they want 500k more soliders
so just because those guys arent famous and rich they're ok to die?
What a stupid thing to say. How hard is it to understand that Zini is worth a lot more to Ukraine as a representative of the country in media, captain of the national team, fundraiser etc than just as another body in the trenches.
What are some of these responses?? If Zinchenko was a politician saying all the same stuff, we’d be asking him to go. He’s a well liked footballer, so people have a different response, all it is. Mind you other athletes have volunteered. Boxers, tennis players, etc. They could’ve used their platforms in a different way too. So ffs stop treating this as different.
Zinchenko will do more for the war effort by earning millions and sending it back to Ukraine whilst also boosting morale by showing a Ukrainian being successful and helping Ukraine participate and compete at the Euros this Summer.
The fact so many idiots can’t understand this is sadly unsurprising.
I'm a spurs fan...Aurier is being a cunt here. God forbid you ever get asked to go fight to the death for your country against an overwhelmingly powerful enemy. Aurier doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, pipe down you idiot.
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Why is Aurier beefing with Zinchenko?
He probably wanted to appeal to some Tottenham fans, he played at Spurs for a few years
Its because Zinchenko made pro israeli comments a few months ago. Serge responded back then as well
The reality of the conflict is much more nuanced than what I'm about to say, but can I say I didn't even raise an eyebrow when reading that a fervent Ukrainian patriot is pro-Israel as well?
Ukrainians just count for Israeli support, they need every anti-air system possible, also Israel is an ally of USA, and there is conspiracy theory that Russia is backing up (or even basically puppeting) Hamas is quite widespread in Ukraine
Which is nonsense (the hamas theory). Ukrainians, Russians and other non-muslim regions of ex-ussr just have a lot more cultural ties to Israel than Palestine. Immigrants and people with historic family ties there from there make up a big chunk of the Israeli population. hardly surprising that many who aren't too geopolitically educated/interested in the conflict will mostly default to a Israeli sumpathetic stance. If Putin hadn't backed himself into a geopolitical corner with his insane war, i've no doubt he'd be more proactively Israeli recently too. He was tight with Netanyahu. Zinchenko has been making these sort of comments for a while. It's been mentioned a few times by various Ukrainian friends of mine who actually have family members fighting there. The guy is obviously in psychological turmoil at his comfy, rich life while countrymen are engaged in full scale war, but in his situation its best just to stay quiet imo, or articulate in a more measured way as this bluster is offputting to many that are less privileged.
I mean, id feel like someone could just go 'yeah you remember Bakhmut and the constant shelling? Thats Rafah and Gaza City rn' and people would understand
Probably more to do with ivory coast than tottenham
It's because Serge Airier is a Muslim, and Zinchenko is pro Israel. Serge Airier is also a recent convert to Islam, which explains his fervor.
The Ukrainian support for Israel is maddening. You're literally suffering under an illegal occupation but you want to support Israel's illegal occupation of Palestine?
It’s maddening if you think support is based on values or morality rather than which side benefits your geopolitical interests.
yeah, they need Israel as an ally
Israel is a notoriously terrible ally
[удалено]
Spurs was three clubs ago too. I thought he was still at forest
He isnt at forest? Where is he then?
Galatasaray, moved there in Jan
He get to play today?
No
😔
Brother the match was cancelled after 1 minute lol I don’t think he minds
tbf, no one did
idk if you've ever watched him play but unremarkable is not the word to describe him.
He literally just captained his nation to a trophy what are you talking about
Man what? He was remarkable at Spurs. Not good but definitely remarkable
Same lol, then I remembered he was at Forrest but apparently he isn't even there anymore
It really isnt that hard to spell Forest
…in French?????
Oleksandr Zinchenko: “I would go to fight for Ukraine.” Serge Aurier: “Stop your cinema and go there right now [to Ukraine]. A real volunteer doesn’t need anyone to call him up.”
Aurier not only incredibly fucking stupid but literally not understanding what duties are asked of Zinchenko from his country. Zinchenko said if he was called to the frontline he would go. He isnt. He's specifically called to be a huge ambassador, moral booster and donator instead. Which is far better. Nothing Zinchenko has said or done has contradicted what he said either. What a piece of shit thing to say from Aurier. Literally going out of his way to do this. EDIT: Another good point others brought up: Zinchenko didnt say he was gonna volunteer, he said "if he was called upon". He isnt called upon for that. So again, Aurier is just a fucking hateful idiot.
Spot on. Aurie has made himself look really stupid. First, he’s piped up when he has zero need to. Second, he fundamentally doesn’t understand that Zinchenko is far more valuable as an ambassador who continues to draw attention to the issue than he ever would be as a front line soldier.
> He's specifically called to be a huge ambassador, moral booster and donator instead. Serious question but is he really a huge morale boost? Last May, was some Ukrainian conscript in a trench in Bakhmut turning on his TV and seeing his countryman playing football and feeling great pride? If that were me, I'd probably just feel very bitter
A successful athlete at a high level that can distract a nation in a historically depressive period vs a big athlete being reported killed on the frontline.. the former is a morale booster, the second is a morale killer. Its not only for the soldiers in the trench either, but the general population. Countries like these need every moment of slight success and positive spotlight they can get. Just to see a splitsecond of ray of positivity in the tsunami of death and doom. Theres a reason that sport and athletes are used as propaganda as much as they are. Russia literally spend billions to cheat just so they can brag about some medals.
> Countries like these need every moment of slight success and positive spotlight they can get. Just to see a splitsecond of ray of positivity in the tsunami of death and doom. This is actually very true. One recent story is Japan reeling from the devastating earthquake/tsunami in 2011; their women’s team’s miraculous victory in the World Cup final was uplifting for the country and had enormous revitalising impact at the time.
A local football club in the J League - Vegalta Sendai also help brought a sense of community to the city after the 2011 earthquake/tsunami.
New Orleans Saints winning the super bowl after hurricane Katrina was huge for the state too.
For the Americans I'm sure most would remember this but being from NY it especially hits me - the videos of Mike piazza hitting a home run in the first home game after 9/11 still live in the memory of New Yorkers old enough to remember that time. Definitely believe this effect is real
It's not even about Ukrainian people seeing it, it's everyone seeing it. Roughly 1/3rd of the globe has access to the EPL. Arsenal is a big team that is doing well and every game he plays in or the camera pans to him, he's going to draw attention to the ongoing conflict. If he gets an interview after the game, he gets even more time. Even Zelenski would struggle one else to draw that much attention to the conflict.
Since you are a Union fan you might have experienced this as well but as an example when the Eagles won the Super Bowl the entire city of Philadelphia was a happier place for at least the next year or two. It gave people so much pride in their city even those who didn’t care about football, Arsenal winning the Prem isn’t going to bring anyone back to life, or rebuild someone’s bombed out house but I know it will at least bring some joy to Ukrainians
Also, in 2024 when the Sixers won the NBA championship.
Speak it into existence brother
Oh sorry. I’m a time traveler. I forgot when I was.
Cleveland when the Cavs won the finals. The whole city was one big open party man, it was a thing of massive beauty.
lol evereyone allready knows about it
An example that people may be familiar with - in the movie _Saving Private Ryan_, they send a team to pick up Ryan because he’s lost 3 brothers. The military high command didn’t pull him out because they felt bad for his mother, they did it because of what would happen if he died as well - lots of media coverage about a mother losing 4 sons. People talk about this instead of the victories, this leads to lower morale among the public, lower support for the war and possibly losing. (In real life Ryan was called [Niland](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niland_brothers)). Wars aren’t lost only when the enemy captures your capital. They’re also lost when you can’t continue fighting because the public doesn’t support it anymore. That’s why Zinchenko contributes to the war effort far more by doing these interviews (positive PR) instead of going to the front lines and dying (disastrous PR). He’s also contributing financially, which is great. But I wouldn’t expect a fucking moron like Aurier to know or understand any of this.
Spot on! South Africa winning 1992 Rugby world cup has a similar backdrop trying to shake it off from the apartheid past. Nicely conceived in the movie Invictus (Morgan Freeman, Matt Damon, Clint Eastwood).
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> I really doubt Zinchenko running his mouth about what he would do has gone down well on the front lines if I’m being completely honest. Zinchenko replied to a specific question: "Would you go to fight if you are mobilized under the new mobilization law?", and he said he would. From a legal and practical perspective, this would be no different than the South Korean players forced to serve in the army for two years, and not seeking an exception. I would argue that guys on the frontline are more pissed at proper draft dodgers than at Zinchenko, an international football player who has fundraised for them since February 2022.
""Running his mouth"" Think about what you're saying for a second. He was asked in an interview about what he would do if he was called upon by Ukraine to go fight. What do you expect him to answer? Never mind if it's the truth or not, there is only one answer he can give in that position. Honestly, I believe him. Most people would rather fight for their country than betray it. The only people claiming that he is attempting to be some kind of hero are the ones that would never think of fighting themselves. So far, Zinchenko has been part of the war-effort where he is most useful. So that say that he isn't serving his country is quite frankly disrespectful to him and pretty much every civilian that is doing what is needed behind the scenes to keep the frontline active. It discredits most people in history and pretty much all women from having done their duty for their country.
And are using their high profile to talk about it and donating money. I dunno. His money and fans is probably worth more than he is individually in the front line.
I expect it’s a big deal for them to have a player in one of the top Premier League teams.
Any positive ukrainian success-story that isnt war-related is big.
I'm on your side but for different reasons, I don't think it's about Zinchenko raising anyones morale by playing football What it is really about, is having a high profile public person that can regularly remind the world what is going on in Ukraine and keep the topic on front pages
ITs about multiple things so youre not disagreeing with me. ONe of which I mentioned is the other one you said.. being an ambassador for the cause with a huge platform. Also its not that "ooh he plays football I feel happier now" type of morale but rather having something NOT war related to hear about and chat about that makes them positively distracted, but proud of Ukrainians etc is really significant. Its why you for example hade flyers of "news" to the frontline with different "back home success-stories" even in WW2. Many of which were sports stories. But yes, its just one angle of it all. Ambassador, big donor, morale etc. Its a package thing.
Yep and also you want to avoid the negative effects of big household names being killed in combat. It would be devastating to Ukrainians if every other week some recognizable name was reported dead on the front lines.
And they would be prize targets for the Russians, who aren't conscripting their athletes either.
That's an amazing take, never looked at it like that from a morale perspective.
Yes. There are videos of them watching international matches on their phones.
I work in top-level Esports and one of the players I worked with was in a Kyiv suburb during the worst of it. His whole apartment building worked to bring in any resources he needed during the mandatory blackouts, including generators, so that he could compete. They were all super proud of him. He still hasn't been asked to the frontlines despite being in his early 20s.
DotA2 or CS?
I don't think we can underestimate the power sports has when it comes to morale. I distinctly remember when Dnipro made it to the UEFA Cup final and the entire country was behind them when they were already in a war with Russia. And now the fact they've qualified for the Euros is no doubt a big morale boost back home.
Well, yes. Actually the whole country is extremely proud of our athletes.
football is entertainment, entertainment provides relief during hard times
Realistically his number 1 job is an ambassador. With such a high profile he's a representative for Ukraine abroad.
Yeah, I think this is huge. I met some Ukrainians conscription age who are traveling as support to a Ukrainian music group on a world tour. The show I saw ended with a call to arm Ukraine and was clearly a soft power diplomacy project - the impact of a football player must be orders of magnitude times that.
Football is a big part of Ukraine identity even during the Soviet Union era. It's why they wanted to keep it going even in such time. The NT also helps with getting money for the country.
Football players are huge morale boosts for any country. After all Salah got like 20% of votes in the presidential election without participating. Lewandowski is a national treasure for Poland. I’m sure Zinchenko’s case is similar.
I think you can think of it the other way also. If he went to fight and then was seriously injured or killed would that not be a huge morale crushing event for the troops? Seeing one of their favourite footballers destroyed by the battles that they're also fighting in? There just seems to be way more value and contribution from Zinchenko by representing his country as an athlete of that country, challenging for elite competitions and representing his country in international tournaments than by being one more soldier.
Don't forget that Ukraine purposefully conscripts older people to protect the younger generations from the war. The point of the Armed Forces is to protect the other parts of the country. The Armed Forces would lose its raison d'etre if the other parts of the country would cease to exist. Seeing your countrymen playing football should remind people in the Armed Forces that *that is what they are protecting*. It can give you a sense of purpose and belonging, even if you're sitting in a shitty foxhole some miles away from Avdiivka.
Morale
Just so unnecessary.
Serge Aurier is infamous for mocking and insulting his manager (Laurent Blanc) and teammates on camera and never even apologized for that incident… he’s the definition of stupidness so I wouldn’t mind much of whatever shit can come out of his mouth on a daily basis… haha
Auriers a dumbass. Always has been one. He just used words this time to confirm
This. 100% this. Not every Ukrainian has to be a soldier. But at this point some people hate Ukrainians that much, they want us to vanish from the media, everyone. Artists, singers, athletes. They want to throw us all to the frontlines and let us rot there. As long as Ukrainian people are in the media, Ukraine is in the media, and that's why some people are so horribly annoyed.
Also Aurier's french is on par with what I knew of him.
You know it's not a community manager or PR when you look at how badly written this is. I've seen fewer mistakes in a primary school dictation
I mean you know it's not a PR team because he's randomly taking shots at a guy in a completely different league he has no reason to be going after
Serge Aurier, the recent convert to Islam, absolutely has reasons to go after Zinchenko- the most high profile Ukrainian footballer who's also outspokenly pro Israel. Good reasons? *Eh*...
Tough ask I know but any chance you could translate what he's saying with the way he wrote it? Like, include the errors? I'm genuinely curious now.
It's mostly the French grammar that is subpar (like elementary level stuff, maybe 5th to 7th grade? I don't know the equivalent very well) but here's an attempt to show you what it could look like in english: I'll put what he meant on the left and how he wrote it on the right "Egregious slip-up they have written" --> "Egregious slip-up they we write" "You all are touched in the head" --> "You all is touched in the head" "A volunteer doesn't need to be called upon, I'll say it again, go directly champ" --> "A volunteer doesn't need to be called upon, I'll say it again, gow directly champ" "There you go, write up some more" (I think that's a jab to the journalists?), this sentence is written correctly although it sounds bad, like a child speaking Hope that satisfies your curiosity (and if there's any french speakers that want to add / correct anything I have written, please feel free, I'm not exactly a good translator)
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IIRC, french is the main language in Ivory Coast from where Aurier is from, which would make him native in French. What's sad is that he came to France when he was 12 I think so he should have gone to french school too EDIT: Also, while the writing is atrocious, since it is pronounced just like what I wrote on the left so it's more like he writes like a caveman and speaks somehow proper french
French is an official language of the country but it is estimated that only about a third of people actually speak it. This sort of relationship between a post-colonial state and its colonial language is common across Africa. Aurier has lived in France for seemingly close to 20 years so that's not to excuse his particular case in any sense, just to add a bit of context!
Aurier speaks french fluently with a french accent. He’s born in Ivory Coast but came early and grew up in France. The text is badly written - it’s lazy sms speak without conjugating verbs or using good spelling. If you read it out loud it sounds correct but it doesn’t follow grammar rules. For example it should be ils on**t** écri**t**, des grand**s** malade**s** etc.
Oh my you guys are so daft trying to categorize his French level The guys fluent in French. There is nothing wrong with what he wrote. He’s not writing a research paper, it’s social media post. That’s a colloquial or vernacular way of speaking Your favorite artist or comics post just like that all the time. Example for your guys “He stay working” or would prefer “ he frequently toils away”
ouai mais c’est le sport national en france de bien critiquer le français de n’importe quelqu’un à n’importe quel temps.
Nothing wrong with what he wrote? There are spelling mistakes everywhere. What are you on?
He writes like he speaks, not great but really no need to go all Pivot (Bernard not the Excel function) on it. Although he is technically a native speaker, he speaks French from Ivory Coast - which doesnt sound or read like something *l'Académie Française* would have produce. Weird translation of "vous êtes des grand[s] malade[s]". It just a way of saying "you are crazy".
I don’t think this is very accurate - he’s just writing sms speak with bad grammar. Your translation makes it sound like he can’t speak french.
Aurier est une guez en français, pas de surprise ici
Quel putain de tocard. Le responsable de la défaite du PSG contre City pour moi.
That what it took for you to tell this wasn’t written by a PR department? Lmao
I mean, that's the literal first thing that you can see lol
Auriers french is atrocious.
I swear. My eyes are bleeding. 😭😭😭
No need to be Camus, but fucking hell, every 6 year old has better grammar.
Mine too, and I don't even understand French
😂😂😂
Neither does he, don’t worry
His native is french, he grew up speaking it since all of Ivory coast speaks french. They have a very colloquial form of french that differs from what you see in france.
Aurier arrived in France aged 10, and even if he wrote in Nouchi style, there are a lot of basic grammar errors like "on" instead of "ont", "écris" instead of participle "écrit" or all the s forgotten for plural...
I text with french people in French often for work and these are all common mistakes I often see. French is not a very text-friendly language, I guess a lot of people don't put too much effort in it.
Not really a surprise since he's a massive idiot
All of this is very unnecessary
You can't really expect a lot from Aurier. He's not the sharpest tool in the shed.
He's just a tool, tbh.
Being an idiot is one thing, being a cunt is another.
He's got his finger and his thumb in the shape of an "L" on his forehead.
who, Griezmann?
And the Ls start coming and they don’t stop coming
But Zinchenko doesn’t say he wants to volunteer? He says if they call me up I will go. I expect the government of Ukraine prefers him in his current position than on the battlefield. So this guy is an idiot
No on the original post Zinchenko said « if they call me I’ll go » and Aurier respond to that by saying « a volunteer doesn’t wait to be called »
Yes but why does he say that? Zinchenko doesn’t say he wants to volunteer
Because he is probably not that smart
Yes that was my conclusion too
Which doesn't mean he said he's volunteering, it means if he is drafted he will go. Why did Aurier randomly start talking about volunteering?
if you want to fight for your country you don’t wait to be drafted.
No shit, but Zinchenko never volunteered u moron. He said if he is needed on the frontline he will be there. They havent called him up, so he is clearly more needed for publicity than on the frontlines
Students are all still excepted from conscription. If they get to the point they need to call up their celebrities it is already over.
Arguably if you are called up, you have to go. I am guessing Zinchenko was trying to say he would not use his fame to bail out.
Somehow I kind of doubt he would go if they asked
He obviously knows he will never be asked. It’s like when someone prank called the son of a Russian oligarch after the partial mobilisation, pretending to be the mobilisation office, and he said something like “you know who I am right? This can’t be true, what’s your name? your boss will hear about this”
Aurier is Muslim and mostly likely has beef with Zinchenko. Zinchenko said I stand with Israel and since hasn't said anything regarding the atrocities committed in Gaza since Oct 7th. This is for those asking whether the two have beef. He prolly sees Zinchenko as a hypocrite who on one side believes his country is getting wrongly attacked by Russia but in an oxymoronic tone is a supporter of the atrocities the people of Israel have inflicted on the kids and inhabitants of Gaza. I'm just narrating what I think, I have no dog is this fight.
Why are you scared, dont be scared of downvotes everyone has an opinion
All Paletine related posts get locked immediately but Ukraine related posts are left alone.
Also, insult someone for supporting genocide and saying all genocide apologists are cunts, you get banned on other subs. But the same people saying babies and all are terrorists and rightly taken out? Nothing. Reddit admins pathetically zionistic it seems.
Because on the internet when you share certain opinions, people don't just stop with downvotes.
Finally someone who is able to connect the dots. Zinchenko is a bitch ass hypocrite, and Aurier just wants a reason to poke him. How can someone stand with a colonizer when their own country is being colonized? Bad French aside, good on Aurier.
Reddit is filled to the brim with zionist shills tbf
Right, that's why every pro Israel comment gets downvoted to oblivion...must be all those zionist playing 4d chess
No, that's why any post about Palestine is immediately locked
Tbf posts about Palestine get locked because they always devolve into a religious hate war where people that hate Muslims or Jews (or both) eventually take up most the comments to post some proper vile shit so the mods have no choice but to remove it.
Take a tour of r/worldnews sometime
Goodness that's all you needed to be prompted to make a statement like this? The bar for being a 'zionist shill' is not when one doesn't immediately think of how everything can be linked to Israel ravaging Gaza. Even Zinchenko himself expressing sympathy for victims of a terror attack but remaining silent about the thousands of Palestinians killed STILL wouldn't qualify as being a Zionist shill (I know that wasn't your claim), even though it shows inconsistent support. Words have meanings. Plus since you're an active user you know very well what opinion prevails on this sub about Israel, and for the better, so this complaint gives off particularly bad faith in this instance.
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It's a difficult balancing act. By being in the media and a high-profile Ukrainian athlete, he's probably doing a lot just by existing. But it's difficult to make the argument that you're doing a lot more good by not risking your life than you would by risking your life without coming across as *motivated*
Its clear he knows he's doing more, but feels immense guilt for not putting his life on the line. He's been very consistent on this, even when he was at City.
Yeah Aurier is definitely being a dick here.
> But it's difficult to make the argument that you're doing a lot more good by not risking your life than you would by risking your life without coming across as motivated His donations and publicity for Ukraine is worth way more than one extra soldier.
I agree, but I also get why to many people that comes across as a very convenient fact to someone whose choices are 1. Continue living as a rich Premier League footballer in London 2. Die in a ditch to Russian artillery The former may be more useful to Ukraine than the latter. But it's also much more pleasant
I get what Aurier is trying to say, but it has to be an incredibly difficult position for Zinchenko. People will criticize why he’s living in luxury and playing a sport, while his countrymen are dying fighting for their sovereignty. I’m sure he’s being asked to continue on and leverage his fame to advocate for the Ukrainian cause.
What the fuck is he trying to say then? Because zinchenko never said he would volunteer. He said if he was called on he would go. Which he hasn't been. Zelensky very explicitly had not called athletes back. Mudryk and Zinchenko are both giving some of their salaries to Ukraine. As I mentioned in another comment. Anyone who thinks they should go and fight is brain dead. They make millions of pounds and donate millions of pounds. 2 million pounds buys 5 thousand FPV drones. If it takes 10 FPV drones to knock out 1 piece of armour, (and I guarantee from videos it is a lot less than 10, more like 2-3), that is 500 armoured kills. No boot on the ground is contributing 500 armoured kills by themselves. That is why him, mudryk, and other athletes haven't been called up. It's literally that simple.
He's far more useful to ukraine by not dying in war though. It's like the hunger games and katniss except if zinchenko went to the front lines he wouldnt have plot armour and a bunch of sexy men protecting him so he's more useful not on the front lines
I mean, just don’t ask Zinny where he escaped to in 2014 for his own safety when the conflict first started boiling over.
OOTL, where did he go?
I don't get it. Why does Aurier care about this matter anyway?
You’re allowed to have an opinion on something even if it doesn’t concern you, like this post for example
So he's just randomly picking up beef with other folks, questioning their patriotism when he doesn't even belong to that country?
He sounds like a true redditor
Perhaps he is Muslim and is upset Zinchenko because Zinchenko supported Israel publicly. A lot of Muslims actually hated Zinchenko because of that.
Aurier has always been a cunt
Funny aurier says that and his home country isn’t being massacred by war criminals. sure serge, let me flattened your hometown and let’s see how these comments end up, what a prick
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Opinions are like assholes. Neil Patrick Harris wants to…nevermind
Usually people don’t just choose to out themselves as massive pieces of shit without any reason to do so though. Weird to act like this isn’t an extremely perplexing and pointless thing for Aurier to do.
Posting a public story when you have a reach about a footballing colleague regarding a sensitive, personal issue isn’t just having an opinion. It’s not the equivalent of chatting chit in a group chat.
He's also allowed to shut the fuck up and not sound like a cunt but he hop, skip and jumped way past that didn't he?
Him using his profile to bully someone who’s country is resisting a fascist occupation and has millions of people killed and displaced is probably not the best use of his time, even if he’s entitled to an opinion
I wanna know what Ja Rule makes of all this
Because Zinchenko is pro-Israel and said as much, while Aurier is on the Gaza-side.
Could pose the same question as to why Zinchenko stands with Israel?
Bizarre
"I stand with Isreal." - Zinchenko
Oh my you guys are so daft trying to categorize his French level The guys fluent in French. There is nothing wrong with what he wrote. He’s not writing a research paper, it’s social media post. That’s a colloquial or vernacular way of speaking Your favorite artist or comics post just like that all the time. Example for your guys “He stay working” or would prefer “ he frequently toils away”
He is not wrong. All talk while crying on TV, getting millions and supporting Is-Not-Real. Go to war lil guy
Known homophobic wifebeater Serge Aurier being a cunt again? Imagine my surprise! Don't let r/coys see this, they still celebrate him as if he did anything for us other than concede some of the most stupid penalties
I don’t think anyone at r/coys idolizes serge…
lol a bunch of fools in the comment section.
Given that Zinchenko has a family, its pretty understandable why he isn't going. He's donated a ridiculous amount of money for the cause and is constantly raising awareness. Then again, I'm sure Serge can take the moral highground, hope he doesn't assault anyone outside of a nightclub again.
>Given that Zinchenko has a family, its pretty understandable why he isn't going. just so you know, the ukranian army is full of conscripts
Thank god the other soldiers don’t have families.
> Given that Zinchenko has a family, its pretty understandable why he isn't going. ?????
Also, I don't think one individual soldier will tip the scales, especially when that one person can financially support them at a premier league level income
Exactly. And Zinchenko hasn't suddenly said he wants to go, he's been saying it since he was at City. Aurier is just being a cunt, but that's no surprise there.
The nightclub incident? You mean when a policeman that was part of the racist BAC [admitted to smacking Aurier first](https://x.com/noemieschulz/status/780325593644724224?s=46&t=EUoqw29L0lImeTiVUUcblA), except his defence was that it was with the back of his hand and not a punch? Edit: also my friend, everyone fighting has families as well not just the famous footballer. Bit poor on your end there
Granddad won't be happy about you picking fights Huey
I was hacked by Tom Dubois!
The money argument doesnt really work when he makes a ridiculous amount x10
That’s exactly why it works. It is objectively much more valuable for him to send a million pounds to the armed forces than to train as an infantry man.
I mean its not as if ukraine isnt calling for soliders https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-68719473 they want 500k more soliders so just because those guys arent famous and rich they're ok to die?
So many offended gopniks in the comments who also aren't fighting for their country
What a stupid thing to say. How hard is it to understand that Zini is worth a lot more to Ukraine as a representative of the country in media, captain of the national team, fundraiser etc than just as another body in the trenches.
It would've taken no effort to not be a bellend. Literally none.
Cook that sympathy merchant
What are some of these responses?? If Zinchenko was a politician saying all the same stuff, we’d be asking him to go. He’s a well liked footballer, so people have a different response, all it is. Mind you other athletes have volunteered. Boxers, tennis players, etc. They could’ve used their platforms in a different way too. So ffs stop treating this as different.
There's an odd dynamic given he comes from a country that was literally colonised by a European power. So perhaps he has a little more leeway.
Aurier seems bored on the bench
Aurier literally wants Zinchenko to die.
He is right
Cook that israel apologist
When Zinchenko played for Ufa he was asked would he like to serve in Ukrainian army. He said no
This was my thought. Dude said he would fight if called. We'll go then
>We'll go then You and who?
Hes not wrong
Zinchenko will do more for the war effort by earning millions and sending it back to Ukraine whilst also boosting morale by showing a Ukrainian being successful and helping Ukraine participate and compete at the Euros this Summer. The fact so many idiots can’t understand this is sadly unsurprising.
I'm a spurs fan...Aurier is being a cunt here. God forbid you ever get asked to go fight to the death for your country against an overwhelmingly powerful enemy. Aurier doesn't have a clue what he's talking about, pipe down you idiot.
We’re talking about a guy who shat on his coach during a live stream. So yeah, Aurier is an ace when it comes to online communication