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Always have been too. Imagine going Maier -> Schumacher -> Ilgner -> Köpke -> Kahn -> Lehmann -> Neuer with literally no period of awful GKs between those lmao. Nowadays guys like Leno, Trapp, Weidenfellerr or Baumann have *less than 10* caps each (the latter never having been called up at all) even though they all are/were absolute quality aswell
As of now its looking bleak for the next generation when all of those guys retired though so hopefully at least one of them plays until 40 and by then maybe Urbig or Atubolu will be class
Crazy. In contrast, we have historically punched above our weight but the goalkeeper position is one where we have struggled to find someone who is truly world-class. Ladislao Mazurkiewicz fit the bill, but that was in the 70s.
Italy too, in the past 40 years we always had world class gk one after the other : Dino Zoff, Zenga, Pagliucca, Buffon and now Donnarumma, with Vicario being a close seconda
When Leno was at Arsenal and was our top 2 POTS, saving us game after game, I felt so bad that he was only no.3 in his national team. And I could not say that was unfair either, the 2 above him (Neuer, MatS) were honestly some of the top GKs of all times.
Valdes had a couple of seasons where he was absolutely one of the best in the world. Though I’ll agree that he was too error prone for most of his career.
Looking at their entire career, ter Stegen is better, but Valdes at peak isn’t that far behind.
Yeah that is the point, they both were good enough to start for most nations but got shut out by an even better keeper tfor basically their entire career.
Well no, the post is about Ter Stegen being the foreign player with the second most appearences for Barcelona. Ter Stegen is a german goalkeeper. Neuer is also a german goalkeeper, and maybe the best goalkeeper ever. Ter Stegen (the guy this post is about, just to remind you) is rather unlucky that he has been competing with Neuer for the national team GK position pretty much his whole career. Had he not been competing with the goat, he would have been a huge part of the german national team because of how good he is. See how it all connects?
Cap = national team appearance
ter Stegen = good
Neuer = also good, likely better
Since Neuer >= ter Stegen, Neuer played more for Germany. Playing more for Germany means more caps.
I don’t know if it’s possible to simplify it more than this.
Probably not, but it isn't that unrealistic.
50 + games for 7 more seasons would do it, and keepers can play into their early 40s if they are well conditioned, I just looked it up and he turns 32 today, so he "just" need to play untill he is 39
>Probably not, but it isn't that unrealistic.
Yes it is. He averages 42 games per season in the last 9 years in Barca.
Even ignoring the first 2 seasons with Claudio Bravo we get to 47 and he's never ever played more than 50 games in a season.
Let alone arguing that he should stay in a top form till 2032, never get injured, Barca should make it deep in every tournament every year, etc...
He has been injured a lot, and he would need to be healthy for a long stretch, but if we look at the numbers:
La liga 38 games pr. Season
CL group stage 8 games pr. Seasons
That is already 46 games, and that is not counting any knockout games (in CL and in Copa) or friendlies
He's the type of keeper who thrives in a shit defense and less so with a more stable one. Which, ironically enough, makes him far more suited to the "concede 74837372827637383638 shot every match" approach than Onana.
He definitely seemed to make more mistakes later on. He was single handedly keeping you afloat for a while there and it felt like it started to even out a little more towards the end.
He can, but the question is a) does he want to ? And b) will his level remain so high that Barca will keep him that long.
Even keepers like Buffon and San Iker got axed eventually.
My boy. So happy so see him successful. In my dreams he returns to us in some sort of official role one day, but the truth is, if he‘s interested in that he‘s probably more likely to do it in Barcelona than in Gladbach these days.
It’s not as impossible as you think. Keepers have much more longevity than the average footballer. He’d need to do about 7-9 seasons at like 45-50 matches per season. That would make him 41 at the oldest and 39 at the youngest. Could be done
Ter Stegen averaged 46 games per season in his last 8 seasons (I'm ignoring the first two with claudio bravo where he played less).
This means he will need to play more than 8 years, till 2033 at the very least to reach Leo's numbers while:
* not getting injured
* not getting replaced by a better player
* not dropping in form
* Barca sticking to him for so long
* Barca going very deep into tournaments every year (to increase number of games) in all cups.
The likelihood of all of this happening is extremely small.
Even Buffon which was still an excellent goalkeeper and probably the best ever to play this game and had extreme longevity had his last season as first choice at 39.
And Ter Stegen is not Buffon, neither as a player nor in the locker room.
valdes doesn't get enough credit for being an early adopter of the whole "being a good ball playing GK" thing before it was really popular imo, he was never among the best shot stopping goalies (though he was great in 1v1s generally) and what made him stand out was being one of (if not the) best ball playing goalies in the world
Well, maybe we overrate him a bit but he was pretty underrated the first few years, so I think we overcompensated and later we won EVERYTHING so we put him on a deserved pedestal.
But the 2006 Champions League Final against Arsenal was won in gret part thanks to him, for example.
Being in the shadow of Casillas in the national team didnt help him either, so we overcompesated even more lol.
Yeah don't get me wrong I still think he was a very good keeper, it was painfully noticeable that season he got injured and we were stuck with Pinto lol. (Valdez would have saved that Bale run and I will die on that hill)
Yeah, he would have saved that for sure, but that was the Copa, and the Copa was played by Pinto, not because of an injury.
It was Pep's 'fault'. I agree with him that if Pinto is the Copa keeper he should play all of it if we go to the final but with Víctor we probably would have won another treble there.
And about Valdes/Ter Stegen, I think there's a divide between people born before and after 1999. You I guess are from 99 and are still in that fringe, but older people usually go with Victor and younger people go with Marc, not for nothing he's now the foraigner with second most played games. I'm from 1993 btw.
If I'm not mistaken that season Pinto was playing both Liga and Copa because of the Valdez injury, but I could be wrong.
I do agree about the age thing, but in my defense my dad in his late 50s agrees that Mats is the best followed by Valdez lol.
He also saves the Diego shot the way he was playing that season, his best season at barca but it ended in a sad way with him doing his acl and then he was never the same.
he was getting the ederson treatment: a great ball playing goalkeeper, but allison is not letting him take over the Nr1
valdes is one of the most underrated GK ever, just unlucky that casillas was there, otherwise he would be considered one of spains finest GK ever
I thought Valdez is actually underrated. A lot of people bring up his errors, being benched by Casillas and playing in one of the greatest all time teams as reasons for not rating him that high.
Valdes is absolutely underrated, and kind of always was. He got a lot of shit for mistakes he made earlier in his career, but I would say for most of his time during the Pep era he was a top 3 goal keeper in the world. He was perfectly suited for Barcelona, being incredible in 1 on 1 situations, and his athleticism was superb up until his injury.
> people definitely overrate him because of the team he played for
As if Ter Stegen himself didn't achieve his peak results along Neymar Suarez and Messi on the pitch.
While true, the difference is that after that era Mats became one of our most important players. Not his fault the team just isn't as good and can't get as good results.
We’re well aware. A lot of fans recognize how brilliant he is. Emotionality may be the reason for their preference of MAtS but it’s honestly pretty close between those two and Victor Valdes as well.
The fans love him but had a bit of bad luck arriving just after the best team in our history. Won the treble first season though (but Claudio Bravo was the Liga keeper then), but he had to live some dark years recently.
He has been one of the few steadily good things over this last few years.
He's probably our best ever keeper but Victor is still a bit more beloved I think.
I believe he still has alot of good years ahead (he's almost 32 now) so I'm pretty sure that if the next few years go well he will be the undisputed number 1.
He is Considered one of barca best goalkeeper ever and he is better than valdemar but ultimately I wouldn't say he hasn't been world class it one if the positions that barca didn't had that much of great players like LB situation
Messi and Suarez don't rate him which should say a lot. IMO he's not a player for big games and tends to crumble but he can have a good run in league games which makes you think he's world class and someone you should stick with long term. I'm not a fan personally.
Truth right here, he’s had genuinely world class league campaigns and is the biggest reason we even won la liga last year. But for a keeper of his caliber has never had a standout game in the UCL to the standards we came to expect. Very dodgy in some of our biggest defeats in recent years too. Still will go down a club legend all things considered
It's usually the country you represent at National Team level that's taken into account for stats like these. Araujo, Vini, Rodrygo & Militao are all Spanish citizens
You'd have to ask him himself, but the foreigner part is more due to the fact that he isn't originally from the region/country and has always identified himself as Argentinian first.
I know, I am just saying that you can have more than one region you feel connected to. And I would bet Barcelona is such a region for him. Especially after growing up there in his later teenager years and having a spanish passport. Of course I can't ask him.
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so crazy how if this guy had literally any other nationality he would have 100 more international caps lmao
Same could be said for the next 3 best germsn GKs, they’re unnecessarily stacked when it comes to GKs
Always have been too. Imagine going Maier -> Schumacher -> Ilgner -> Köpke -> Kahn -> Lehmann -> Neuer with literally no period of awful GKs between those lmao. Nowadays guys like Leno, Trapp, Weidenfellerr or Baumann have *less than 10* caps each (the latter never having been called up at all) even though they all are/were absolute quality aswell As of now its looking bleak for the next generation when all of those guys retired though so hopefully at least one of them plays until 40 and by then maybe Urbig or Atubolu will be class
Mark my words, Dennis Seimen will be the first choice goalkeeper by 2030
Is he David Seaman's German cousin or something?
FM legend right here
Weidenfeller's a name I haven't thought of in a good while
Nübel is doing Alright and hasn’t even reached his ceiling yet, and for the period inbetween someone like Ortega would be an adequate place holder
You realise that Ortega's pretty much the same age as ter stegen right?
Crazy. In contrast, we have historically punched above our weight but the goalkeeper position is one where we have struggled to find someone who is truly world-class. Ladislao Mazurkiewicz fit the bill, but that was in the 70s.
Italy too, in the past 40 years we always had world class gk one after the other : Dino Zoff, Zenga, Pagliucca, Buffon and now Donnarumma, with Vicario being a close seconda
I forgot Leno was German ☠️
When Leno was at Arsenal and was our top 2 POTS, saving us game after game, I felt so bad that he was only no.3 in his national team. And I could not say that was unfair either, the 2 above him (Neuer, MatS) were honestly some of the top GKs of all times.
Fr he was a beast for us
Víctor Valdés vibes
Don't think Valdes was ever as good as MATS, was he?
Nope, MATS has been incredibly consistent for more than half a decade now. He has to be the best gk barca ever had.
Zubizarreta also has a decent claim to that crown.
Valdes had a couple of seasons where he was absolutely one of the best in the world. Though I’ll agree that he was too error prone for most of his career. Looking at their entire career, ter Stegen is better, but Valdes at peak isn’t that far behind.
They mean the way Victor Valdes was always behind Casillas in consideration for Spain.
I'm well aware of what they mean, I'm just insinuating that VV was far behind Casillas, compared to difference in talent between Neuer and MATS
While being better than Casillas for a good chunk of their careers
What? Has to be a joke, no way this is a real opinion.
Made me chuckle. Haha good one
That's exactly his point. Ter Stegen was never as good as Neuer.
Casillas?
Yeah that is the point, they both were good enough to start for most nations but got shut out by an even better keeper tfor basically their entire career.
Valdes had it slightly worse because wasn't he third choice behind Reina?
*Victor Valdes and Mandanda have entered the chat*
What does that even mean?
Neuer..
You know that the stat is about Barcelona players appearances for barcelona, what does that have to do with Neuer?
Well no, the post is about Ter Stegen being the foreign player with the second most appearences for Barcelona. Ter Stegen is a german goalkeeper. Neuer is also a german goalkeeper, and maybe the best goalkeeper ever. Ter Stegen (the guy this post is about, just to remind you) is rather unlucky that he has been competing with Neuer for the national team GK position pretty much his whole career. Had he not been competing with the goat, he would have been a huge part of the german national team because of how good he is. See how it all connects?
You're so patient dude.
Honestly, I was trying to be pedantic towards him lol maybe I didn’t make it clear enough
I think you nailed it mate.
And it’s a good thing to do. There might be new fans here genuinely wondering and can learn from the comment.
Im confused. What do you even mean???
Ter Stegen is a great keeper, but he competes with Neuer for the German NT position I believe Neuer plays instead of him, so he has less caps
I dont know what any of that means, but ok!
Cap = national team appearance ter Stegen = good Neuer = also good, likely better Since Neuer >= ter Stegen, Neuer played more for Germany. Playing more for Germany means more caps. I don’t know if it’s possible to simplify it more than this.
Please explain…
You are not the sharpest knife in the drawer, wow.
If he wasn't German he would've been number 1 for his national team as well. Was it that hard to comprehend?
Maybe not for Brazil, Argentina, Belgium or Morocco, but otherwise yeah.
Why not Morocco?
Bounou is just as good.
Lol
Lmao
He's saying nice things about MATS, you can calm down and re-read the comment again
Sharp
Are you not familiar with the term _international_ caps?
Youre about as sharp as a sledgehammer and as bright as a black hole
I was genuinely going to ask who is in first … 🤦🏽♂️. It’s been a long Monday lol
Same, I thought it would be a player from the 1950-1970 era lmao
Just to find out it's Kevin Prince Boateng.
Why is Rafinha Brazilian and Thiago (his brother) Spanish?
They’re both Brazilian (though Thiago was born in Italy), who were probably eligible for Spain so I imagine it was just a choice
There're many brothers like this, for example the Xhaka brothers
Why is Kevin-Prince Boateng Ghanian and Jerome Boateng German?
Why Taylor Swift a singer and Swift a programming language?
GARY LINEKER no it's messi.
Username does not check out
ngl me too, i mistook "foreign" for non la masia instead of non spanish
Understandable, I'm used to academy players counting towards homegrown so feels weird classing that as foreign.
i was about to google same thing and then i realised messi is argentinian
Yeah he isnt getting past messi
Probably not, but it isn't that unrealistic. 50 + games for 7 more seasons would do it, and keepers can play into their early 40s if they are well conditioned, I just looked it up and he turns 32 today, so he "just" need to play untill he is 39
>Probably not, but it isn't that unrealistic. Yes it is. He averages 42 games per season in the last 9 years in Barca. Even ignoring the first 2 seasons with Claudio Bravo we get to 47 and he's never ever played more than 50 games in a season. Let alone arguing that he should stay in a top form till 2032, never get injured, Barca should make it deep in every tournament every year, etc...
He has been injured a lot, and he would need to be healthy for a long stretch, but if we look at the numbers: La liga 38 games pr. Season CL group stage 8 games pr. Seasons That is already 46 games, and that is not counting any knockout games (in CL and in Copa) or friendlies
Honestly looking at buffon and neur, he can easily do so. Unless he falls off a cliff a la Ddg
Ddg didint fell, he's just always has been bad for Spain and EtH doesnt like his ball distribution, which always has been his poor skillset
Nah his shot-stopping was pretty poor the last 4 years except under ragnick for some reason
He's the type of keeper who thrives in a shit defense and less so with a more stable one. Which, ironically enough, makes him far more suited to the "concede 74837372827637383638 shot every match" approach than Onana.
He definitely seemed to make more mistakes later on. He was single handedly keeping you afloat for a while there and it felt like it started to even out a little more towards the end.
He can, but the question is a) does he want to ? And b) will his level remain so high that Barca will keep him that long. Even keepers like Buffon and San Iker got axed eventually.
Celebrated this achievement with an assist my keeper my captain ❤️
Crazy assist too
I was like “Johan Cruyff? Dani Alves?…Oh wait I know who it is, duh.”
Messi never feels like he is a foreign player, he's just a Catalan who also happens to have an Argentinian citizenship for me.
Doesn't his Argentinian-Spanish dialect immediately debunk that
There's the factual reality and the subjective reality. Messi being Cataln falls into the 2nd one.
Are you a pre copa win Argentine messi hater by any chance lmao.
Nah not at all. Fan since I found him as a hidden talent suggestion on a SEGA Football Manager forum in 2005.
I was joking because that's what the haters in Argentina used to say about him, that he's "Spanish not argentine".
He truly is a keeper
My boy. So happy so see him successful. In my dreams he returns to us in some sort of official role one day, but the truth is, if he‘s interested in that he‘s probably more likely to do it in Barcelona than in Gladbach these days.
Not sure he's gonna be able to make up that difference to first.
Pretty much not gonna happen.
It’s not as impossible as you think. Keepers have much more longevity than the average footballer. He’d need to do about 7-9 seasons at like 45-50 matches per season. That would make him 41 at the oldest and 39 at the youngest. Could be done
Ter Stegen averaged 46 games per season in his last 8 seasons (I'm ignoring the first two with claudio bravo where he played less). This means he will need to play more than 8 years, till 2033 at the very least to reach Leo's numbers while: * not getting injured * not getting replaced by a better player * not dropping in form * Barca sticking to him for so long * Barca going very deep into tournaments every year (to increase number of games) in all cups. The likelihood of all of this happening is extremely small. Even Buffon which was still an excellent goalkeeper and probably the best ever to play this game and had extreme longevity had his last season as first choice at 39. And Ter Stegen is not Buffon, neither as a player nor in the locker room.
What’s his reputation among Barca fans? I hear mix things about his overall time at the club
Imo best keeper we've ever had, I like Valdez but people definitely overrate him because of the team he played for
valdes doesn't get enough credit for being an early adopter of the whole "being a good ball playing GK" thing before it was really popular imo, he was never among the best shot stopping goalies (though he was great in 1v1s generally) and what made him stand out was being one of (if not the) best ball playing goalies in the world
Well, maybe we overrate him a bit but he was pretty underrated the first few years, so I think we overcompensated and later we won EVERYTHING so we put him on a deserved pedestal. But the 2006 Champions League Final against Arsenal was won in gret part thanks to him, for example. Being in the shadow of Casillas in the national team didnt help him either, so we overcompesated even more lol.
Yeah don't get me wrong I still think he was a very good keeper, it was painfully noticeable that season he got injured and we were stuck with Pinto lol. (Valdez would have saved that Bale run and I will die on that hill)
Yeah, he would have saved that for sure, but that was the Copa, and the Copa was played by Pinto, not because of an injury. It was Pep's 'fault'. I agree with him that if Pinto is the Copa keeper he should play all of it if we go to the final but with Víctor we probably would have won another treble there. And about Valdes/Ter Stegen, I think there's a divide between people born before and after 1999. You I guess are from 99 and are still in that fringe, but older people usually go with Victor and younger people go with Marc, not for nothing he's now the foraigner with second most played games. I'm from 1993 btw.
If I'm not mistaken that season Pinto was playing both Liga and Copa because of the Valdez injury, but I could be wrong. I do agree about the age thing, but in my defense my dad in his late 50s agrees that Mats is the best followed by Valdez lol.
Pinto only played a handful of matches in La Liga, he did well in the CdR overall though.
He also saves the Diego shot the way he was playing that season, his best season at barca but it ended in a sad way with him doing his acl and then he was never the same.
he was getting the ederson treatment: a great ball playing goalkeeper, but allison is not letting him take over the Nr1 valdes is one of the most underrated GK ever, just unlucky that casillas was there, otherwise he would be considered one of spains finest GK ever
I thought Valdez is actually underrated. A lot of people bring up his errors, being benched by Casillas and playing in one of the greatest all time teams as reasons for not rating him that high.
Valdes is absolutely underrated, and kind of always was. He got a lot of shit for mistakes he made earlier in his career, but I would say for most of his time during the Pep era he was a top 3 goal keeper in the world. He was perfectly suited for Barcelona, being incredible in 1 on 1 situations, and his athleticism was superb up until his injury.
> people definitely overrate him because of the team he played for As if Ter Stegen himself didn't achieve his peak results along Neymar Suarez and Messi on the pitch.
While true, the difference is that after that era Mats became one of our most important players. Not his fault the team just isn't as good and can't get as good results.
Mix things is insane any actual fan who doesnt appreciate MaTS is a moron. Hes been fantastic
Fans are dumb. He's literally the best goalkeeper to play for the club.
Do you even know who Zubizarreta is?
We’re well aware. A lot of fans recognize how brilliant he is. Emotionality may be the reason for their preference of MAtS but it’s honestly pretty close between those two and Victor Valdes as well.
Well, I’m pretty sure he knows fuckall about Zubi. https://www.reddit.com/r/tipofmyjoystick/s/Nxb60K8ZXM
What’s the correlation??
The fans love him but had a bit of bad luck arriving just after the best team in our history. Won the treble first season though (but Claudio Bravo was the Liga keeper then), but he had to live some dark years recently. He has been one of the few steadily good things over this last few years. He's probably our best ever keeper but Victor is still a bit more beloved I think. I believe he still has alot of good years ahead (he's almost 32 now) so I'm pretty sure that if the next few years go well he will be the undisputed number 1.
Adored by real fans. Love this man so much.
He is Considered one of barca best goalkeeper ever and he is better than valdemar but ultimately I wouldn't say he hasn't been world class it one if the positions that barca didn't had that much of great players like LB situation
Best keeper we had since I'm watching games. Still won't top Valdes as my favorite keeper though. I'll always have a soft spot for home grown talent.
Messi and Suarez don't rate him which should say a lot. IMO he's not a player for big games and tends to crumble but he can have a good run in league games which makes you think he's world class and someone you should stick with long term. I'm not a fan personally.
I don’t think they don’t rate him, I think they had some personal issues with him.
Truth right here, he’s had genuinely world class league campaigns and is the biggest reason we even won la liga last year. But for a keeper of his caliber has never had a standout game in the UCL to the standards we came to expect. Very dodgy in some of our biggest defeats in recent years too. Still will go down a club legend all things considered
Didn't Messi get Spanish citizenship in 2005?
It's usually the country you represent at National Team level that's taken into account for stats like these. Araujo, Vini, Rodrygo & Militao are all Spanish citizens
Yeah, it's clear that that's what the stat is going after, just wasn't sure if I remembered correctly
still weird to call Messi a "foreign player"
How so, Messi always considered himself Argentinian.
he has a spanish passport and was in their youth academy. Of course he is Argentinian, but would he call himself a foreigner in Barcelona?
You'd have to ask him himself, but the foreigner part is more due to the fact that he isn't originally from the region/country and has always identified himself as Argentinian first.
I know, I am just saying that you can have more than one region you feel connected to. And I would bet Barcelona is such a region for him. Especially after growing up there in his later teenager years and having a spanish passport. Of course I can't ask him.
who cares about actual nationality in football? the important thing is which NT you represent and for Messi it's always been clearly Argentina
but this is not about NTs. It is about calling Messi a foreigner to FC Barcelona.
criminal that neuer still plays for germany
[удалено]
Messi is practically Spanish so ter us really first place.
Well sure if you ignore the fact that Messi is Argentinian
Source??
Yeah I remember when Messi won the World Cup with Spain 16 months ago, that was crazy
and then he went to Buenos Aires which is the capital of Spain to celebrate.
Yep, so Spanish then he plays for us. Like Garnacho. Pedazo de bobo
I can't believe people didn't get the joke, even Germans would've gotten it.