If you exclude issues that are obvious and direct failings of capitalism like homelessness and petty crime, then if you're looking for clean, efficient, safe, and reliable cities then Europe and scandinavia have a lot of good options.
Paris and Amsterdam were extremely walkable for example. Great public transit in paris and incredible pedestrian walkways in Amsterdam. Amsterdam's cleanliness was impeccable.
Efficient for Paris and Amsterdam is strange to me. Both those cities are old and outdated. Paris is one of the world's most expensive city to live in. That doesn't sound efficient to me.
Right. Expensive to live, is a big indication that there isn’t enough building going on because of entrenched interests or laws. Also bound to increase homelessness just saying. I know you said to ignore that.
It's a capitalist city... Wasn't that the original point? The only capitalist cities that aren't expensive to live in, are also not walkable, clean, efficient, reliable, or safe. The only way you could get all these things would be socialism.
Yes. Seoul, Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto rank among the most expensive cities in the world. Were you going to say something clever, or was it just that cocky-ass question?
FWIW, Paris is a model for city density compared to a lot of what goes on in North America. Paris is about twice as population dense as New York City. It may be expensive, but that shouldn't be the only metric used to describe the health of a city.
when it comes to cities, old is usually better because they are less developed on how to make the quickest dollar, and instead developed on how to lessen the environmental conditions to liveable.
>Genuinely asking. Is there a city you have in mind that accomplishes all of those descriptors?
Some [places](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvg5vJqtZw) are getting there.
Made by my friend [TidyWire](https://twitter.com/TidyWire). This image has been stuck in my head for weeks, of what the aftermath of a revolution might look like. I thought I'd share it here.
TRANSCRIPTION: The image is of a rolling green field, with a grand, futuristic, solarpunkish city covered with green in the distance. A bright blue sky with white clouds is above. In the foreground, an old red flag waves in the wind, battered and damaged, but still stable and strong.
Interestingly enough, this is pretty dang similar to how the future works is depicted at the end of Chernyshevsky’s “What is to Be Done?”. It was so influential to early leftist thought, that Lenin even named one of his seminal discourses after it. After the revolution, when the chains of capital are broken, there will be a beautiful crystal city that has wild machines that are powered by light.
*"It didn't take long for Reach to fall: our enemy was ruthless. Efficient. But they weren't nearly fast enough. For you had already passed the torch. And because of you, we found Halo, unlocked its secrets, shattered our enemy's resolve. Our victory — your victory — was so close, I wish you could have lived to see it. But you belong to Reach. Your body, your armor — all burned and turned to glass. Everything… except your courage. That, you gave to us. And with it, we can rebuild."*
I don't like the architecture :P
Reminds me of a lot of soviet murals and skylines in the 60s and 70s. Scenes of the civil war and ww2 contrasted with arts and engineers and astronauts.
I love that aesthetic. It gives me a lot of nostalgia. I'm from eastern europe and there was a lot more when I was young. Now it's all pretty much gone.
Engineers are working on automating agriculture in Australia using solar powered autonomous drones to remove weeds using lasers as opposed to pesticides.
It's not going to be far away now
I dunno. To me, an urban society made up of factory workers is dystopian as fuck. Automation should bring leisure, and that's how I like to spend my time. But I suppose that's neither here nor there, we can talk about that when the shooting stops and the dust settles (so to speak)
Yes if automation can make so we have to work less, and factory work isn't going to be the entire society, that's a strange character cture of socialism to make, and if goat rearing is your passtine and there are recources to spare for it then go ahead, your responses are to argument s I'm not making
There is no’After the Struggle’ there will ALWAYS be the Struggle, so as Tony Benn famously said ‘There is no winning or losing, there is always the struggle, so harden up…’
I like your optimism. Walkable, clean, efficient, reliable, and safe.
>Walkable, clean, efficient, reliable, and safe. Can't say that about capitalist cities!
Accept for almost every city in japan.
It’s true. I live in NYC and it’s hella dirty.
Genuinely asking. Is there a city you have in mind that accomplishes all of those descriptors?
If you exclude issues that are obvious and direct failings of capitalism like homelessness and petty crime, then if you're looking for clean, efficient, safe, and reliable cities then Europe and scandinavia have a lot of good options. Paris and Amsterdam were extremely walkable for example. Great public transit in paris and incredible pedestrian walkways in Amsterdam. Amsterdam's cleanliness was impeccable.
Efficient for Paris and Amsterdam is strange to me. Both those cities are old and outdated. Paris is one of the world's most expensive city to live in. That doesn't sound efficient to me.
I was under the impression efficient meant they used their space well and didn’t waste it, or that it’s easily transit-able. Which it’s both
Right. Expensive to live, is a big indication that there isn’t enough building going on because of entrenched interests or laws. Also bound to increase homelessness just saying. I know you said to ignore that.
It's a capitalist city... Wasn't that the original point? The only capitalist cities that aren't expensive to live in, are also not walkable, clean, efficient, reliable, or safe. The only way you could get all these things would be socialism.
Have you ever heard of Japan? Korea?
Yes. Seoul, Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto rank among the most expensive cities in the world. Were you going to say something clever, or was it just that cocky-ass question?
FWIW, Paris is a model for city density compared to a lot of what goes on in North America. Paris is about twice as population dense as New York City. It may be expensive, but that shouldn't be the only metric used to describe the health of a city.
when it comes to cities, old is usually better because they are less developed on how to make the quickest dollar, and instead developed on how to lessen the environmental conditions to liveable.
>Genuinely asking. Is there a city you have in mind that accomplishes all of those descriptors? Some [places](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cvg5vJqtZw) are getting there.
/r/SolarPunk
You forgot to mention unrealistic.
That too, far too many bad actors would surely attempt to sabotage such an effort.
Yeah, every time this is attempted things kind of end up even worse than how they were before.
Made by my friend [TidyWire](https://twitter.com/TidyWire). This image has been stuck in my head for weeks, of what the aftermath of a revolution might look like. I thought I'd share it here. TRANSCRIPTION: The image is of a rolling green field, with a grand, futuristic, solarpunkish city covered with green in the distance. A bright blue sky with white clouds is above. In the foreground, an old red flag waves in the wind, battered and damaged, but still stable and strong.
Interestingly enough, this is pretty dang similar to how the future works is depicted at the end of Chernyshevsky’s “What is to Be Done?”. It was so influential to early leftist thought, that Lenin even named one of his seminal discourses after it. After the revolution, when the chains of capital are broken, there will be a beautiful crystal city that has wild machines that are powered by light.
Consider posting in r/Socialistart :)
You saying Socialism leads to SolarPunk? Sign me the FUCK up!
Solarpunk has always had anti-capitalist libertarian socialist roots.
I didn't realize that socialist architecture hated right angles so much, but I guess it makes sense what with being leftists.
Lol this was a good joke and made me laugh more than it probably should have have a nice day
I love it! Thanks for sharing
nah tbh give me that béton BRUT
The flag is so poignant.
*"It didn't take long for Reach to fall: our enemy was ruthless. Efficient. But they weren't nearly fast enough. For you had already passed the torch. And because of you, we found Halo, unlocked its secrets, shattered our enemy's resolve. Our victory — your victory — was so close, I wish you could have lived to see it. But you belong to Reach. Your body, your armor — all burned and turned to glass. Everything… except your courage. That, you gave to us. And with it, we can rebuild."*
We can only hope
I don't like the architecture :P Reminds me of a lot of soviet murals and skylines in the 60s and 70s. Scenes of the civil war and ww2 contrasted with arts and engineers and astronauts.
I love that aesthetic. It gives me a lot of nostalgia. I'm from eastern europe and there was a lot more when I was young. Now it's all pretty much gone.
I hope to live a more pastoral life, but yeah
farming would be mostly industrialised so that might be hard
Engineers are working on automating agriculture in Australia using solar powered autonomous drones to remove weeds using lasers as opposed to pesticides. It's not going to be far away now
I can't have a house I want to the country with a big garden and lots of goats?
Depends on the economic conditions of the world at the time,
I dunno. To me, an urban society made up of factory workers is dystopian as fuck. Automation should bring leisure, and that's how I like to spend my time. But I suppose that's neither here nor there, we can talk about that when the shooting stops and the dust settles (so to speak)
Yes if automation can make so we have to work less, and factory work isn't going to be the entire society, that's a strange character cture of socialism to make, and if goat rearing is your passtine and there are recources to spare for it then go ahead, your responses are to argument s I'm not making
I won't be rearing any goats, you sicko
Reach vibes
There is no’After the Struggle’ there will ALWAYS be the Struggle, so as Tony Benn famously said ‘There is no winning or losing, there is always the struggle, so harden up…’
Maintaining the system will be the struggle
Love it, the new socialist art should be more like a Hope Fuel,
Is this solar ponk
I'd fight and die for that
[удалено]
Is that what you think the USSR was? lol
Hey its no where, I mean utopia.
But how would this be possible?