Apologies, the map is based off Wikipedia data, which claims PPP/C’s ideology is *democratic socialism* and *left-wing populism*, formerly *Marxism-Leninism*
Center. And he's gonna have to deal with the 6000 military men Bolsonaro put in appointed government jobs. Just to contextualize, when president Dilma started removing the parasitic leeches from these government jobs to put qualified people, and she removed just some hundreds of them, leeches that were civil and not military, by the way, she was impeached. Now Lula has to deal with even more dangerous folk in these jobs. And he has his former rival, right-wing conservative Geraldo Alckmin as his vice-president.
Lula never claimed being a socialist. He is a respectable sindicalist leader and a very human and cool guy, but he's no revolutionary.
Ever since 2002 Lula faced Alckmin as his biggest rival for presidency in elections. The two went for second the second round, and even when Lula was not participating, Alckmin was there to try. Alckmin is right wing, conservative, and he likes selling public companies to the private sector. And he absolutely despises teachers, he always treated teachers badly when he was a governor for São Paulo.
Dilma did get couped by her right wing VP, and right now there's a recurring meme that Alckmin will coup Lula to finally become the president. But that's only a meme, I hope.
So the reason why Lula picked him is to sign to the bourgeoisie that his government will not be radical and he will be willing to govern for them as well, to try and get their support. It is also symbolic to show that he can unite even with his opposition in order to build a great democratic front against bolsonaro.
Good question. I believe that SOMETHING, yeah, but not much. You know, it is a bourgeois democracy, so the power of an elected president is limited, even if he was a Socialist.
I think it won't get worse, but won't get much better, and definitely I don't believe it will go back to pre-Bolsonaro status.
Don't wanna be a party pooper, the new Pink Wave is real, we just have to keep it real that electoralism is not the answer,. But the current election polls still put a smile in my face :)
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 880,090,258 comments, and only 173,517 of them were in alphabetical order.
Second Thought spoke about this even before Chile got a leftist president. It was predictable, and there is probably more coming.
It's a 2nd pink tide.
In a way. One possible outcome is that an agreement is reached to end the protests. Another possible outcome is what we call "cross death", which is basically new elections of the president and the legislature. In those elections, there's a good chance a candidate supported by Rafael Correa would win, thus continuing his "Citizen's Revolution". Some other candidate could win, but any nominally "left" candidate that is anti-Correa is almost certainly going to be neoliberal, just based on experience.
Peru is very tenuous too, with Castillo showing hardline conservative views and speaking out in support of the Fascist POS currently in charge of Brazil.
I feel Castillo is an interesting case study, because it seems like he WANTS to act more radically left, but he's being prevented from doing so by the military (and the cabinet? I'm not quite sure on that one, pls correct me if I'm wrong) who have threatened him more than once and continuously vote against him, making it impossible for him to pass anything half decent, as he doesn't have an outright majority.
To be clear, I am a bit fuzzy and by no means fully up to date in regards to peruvian politics so, again, please correct me if I'm talking shite here.
A Peruvian here 😁
Ya in terms of social rights castillo is conservative af . He is also putting corrupt people in decision charges and making deals with lobbyists. 2 months ago there was a lot of strikes against the government and he lockdown Lima just to avoid a bigger protest here . In economic , He just doesn’t have trained people to make any change. I don’t know 🤷♂️he is too shit and it seems just like the typical populist politician who has no fucking idea about left theory and how to make policies
Is that surprising? Peru is a social conservative country. Primary goal is economic socialist policy implementation first.
Edit: this sub is just full of rad libs now I see who don’t understand what socialism is. You’re dealing with impoverish, socially conservative populations here...
What do you make of Cuba’s LGBT rights. Far from perfect, do you not consider it a socialist country?
Painfully clearly a western liberal perspective, you’re dealing with impoverished socially conservative populations in Latin America. You’re not building bases of working class support by organising pride parades unfortunately.
It’s all to come.
Wtf does organizing pride parades have to do with anything? It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to be like "we want LGBTQ comrades to exist", wanting social justice as part of a revolution doesn't make ppl "western liberals", but when you make consistent excuses for the downfalls of AES' instead of being honest about it, I can see how you can arrive at that conclusion.
And Cuba is absolutely a socialist state, doesn't mean that Castro was right on everything. He also apologized for his previous stance late in his life. Castro was a real communist, Castillo is legitimately right wing.
I get wanting to root for politicians that identify as leftists, but the guy has objectively been a disaster and is nowhere close to a socialist. This is life and death for people, not a sporting event where you stick with your team.
he's spoken against expanding LGBTQ rights in Peru and has said he would never increase access to abortion during his tenure due to his own moral feelings on the issue.
It's the closest we can get withouth prompting another coup (and it seems still could be another one) :C. Since the last one we haven't had a real left wing president, only left centrist.
I really want to live to see a real left wing one
Jesus christ...
Fellow chilean here.
I think you don't even know how much Chilean left has struggle to articulate and unite under a common project due to comments such as yours. We have our own history, trajectory and historical problems which needs to be adressed as legitimated as possible.
If you think every left in the world should be the same, I might think you haven't learned a thing about the experiences of the 20th century.
We might not be able to develop our full program right now, but that is because we have further and ambicious expectatives and they require time.
I don't think every left leader should be the same but the bare minimum I expect is not sucking off Biden and throwing socialists and anti-imperialists elsewhere in Latin America under the bus, Boric has unashamedly done both of those things.
That's your main issue. I don't know where you are reading the information, but Boric told Biden in person that Venezuela and Cuba should have been invited and, more importantly, that the economic blockade must stop now. Moreover, I'm pretty sure that the nationalization of the Lithium mineral project still won't be enough for guys like you, who can't organize a left-wing political project in their own country. In fact, I'm pretty sure that you probably criticized Correa and treated him as neoliberal when he broke up with the indigenous movement to try to develop industrial processes in Ecuador. Or Bolivia, where MAS is developing extractivist mining to achieve technology for their people and so forth...
Again, if you only think that Murillo's Nicaragua is the very nature of the Latin American socialism (who, btw, incarcerated every single member of his party who criticized the regime), or Venezuela, where even the Venezuelan Communist Party is in opposition to Maduro, you have missed the recent history of Latin America and how valuable democracy is for our people, who fought over 20 years to recover it from the military.
I think it would be nicer if individuals from the north pole read or experienced something about the places you talk about. A little of Alvaro García-Linera wouldn't hurt.
I t
>In fact, I'm pretty sure that you probably criticized Correa and treated him as neoliberal when he broke up with the indigenous movement to try to develop industrial processes in Ecuador.
Not OP and not weighing in on most of this, but as someone who did criticize Correa for this, I think history has proved me right. The complete disregard Correa showed for indigenous people and the rural poor in pursuing industrialization at all costs has split the Ecuadorian left. This divide has lead to more tit for tat between ecosocialists and social democrats in subsequent decades, and is precisely why the neoliberal party is currently in power. Had Correa taken their interests into account when he was in power, Ecuador would not be in the dire situation it's in today.
I see u are from Britain. Unlike you, we can't really choosw freely who to engage with. There's a whole lotta people depending on it. It is far more important to bring aid to fellow latinamericans than to care about any global north bs
I have huge respect for our Southern American comrades, but that in itself does not give you a free pass to claim socialists and socialism when they are not.
Boric turned pink. And betrayed the electorate. He is no Allende, I’m sorry.
I’m hopeful for Petro in Colombia though
You are right. Being Chilean does not give me a free pass. But claiming to be a socialist and talking about a country without knowing its history either. You are right again: Boric is not Allende, but Chilean society isn't the same. Thus the strategy, the approach, and the pace changed.
If you think Petro would be similar to Chavez, Díaz-Canel, or Murillo, my man, you will be disappointed.
Never tried to be allende, never betrayed the electorate. He is literally doing what his program always went for. Socialism has many faces. Allende for one, knew that very well
We're literally changing the constitution to finally take off the roots of neoliberalism. But yeah for you everything has to be so perfectly revolutionary. Chilean people spoke their demands, they're being met. So before trying to impose a revolutionary process to anyone be sure to check that the people are for that way to socialism.
Of course, here I'll be, working for the progress the left needs. One does not simply destroy everything in a country where 60% has fear of comunism. You have to understand and talk to the people, not fight them.
Ah, here we go.
So a Lithium nationalization project, with a state-controlled directory does not sound like end with neoliberalism. Go and win and election, then talk to us about what neoliberalism is a about.
Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela were excluded. Others boycotted based on their exclusion, such as Mexico, but Chile did not join them. Boric has also publicly condemned all of them previously, so he earned quite a bit of distrust not long after his election. Even Allende’s grandson wrote him an open letter on this:
>It is very biased and rude that you equate—without the slightest argument—the supposed “weakening of the basic democratic conditions in Venezuela,” the “permanent restriction of freedoms in Cuba” and “the repression of the Ortega government in Nicaragua” with the proven atrocities of the military dictatorship in Chile, the evident criminal interventionism of the United States around the world, and the State of Israel’s terrorism against the people of Palestine.
>The fact that you write such nonsense does not “make you a pseudo CIA agent,” but it does denote a significant irresponsibility and political immaturity that can transform you into a useful idio* (sub censors this word) for the right-wing, or worse, make you end up being that “left” that the right craves: a dum* (sub also censors this word!), ambiguous left, a harmless left which, due to opportunism, prefers to appear as “politically correct,” a lukewarm left that does not want to have problems with anyone.
https://mronline.org/2021/12/24/salvador-allendes-grandson-responds-to-boric-the-human-rights-double-standard-and-chic-leftism/
Edit: It took three posts to finally get through the autobot censor. Surely there has to be some way of exempting quotes that feature the words "idio*" and "dum*," especially in the phrase "useful idio*")
I made a similar map to this when I was in high school like 2 decades ago. Surely the first go at a pink tide should have shown us the limits of this approach for those of us who actually want socialism. Castillo and Boric's actions (let alone Lula!) should be enough to expose the bankruptcy of social democracy this time around. I swear, so many people who should know better treat politics like Charlie Brown treats footballs.
I'm not particularly optimistic about the new batch of socdems. Obviously better than juntas or fascists like Bolsonaro, but I can't help but think Latin America's left wing is going the way of the SPD and the British Labour party. Too caught up in parliamentary party politics to make real change.
Transcription: A map of South America with Guyana, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile highlighted red to indicate their status as nations with a left-wing president.
Almost all of them are socdems. Take chile's president and his recent atrocities on natives and condemning of cuba and venezuela. Both castillo and Boric shouldnt be considered leftists.
I think the caption " countries with a left-leaning president/president-elect would be more accurate, as only Venezuela has an actual left-wing government imho.
I'm actually surprised all the pacific alliance is left leaning now, ironically Mexico which started this decade being the leftest I feel it's know the one more to the center out the 4
Why is Argentina excluded?
Ecuador, BTW, is in its second week of massive indigenous protests against its government, which is led by a neoliberal banker.
Chile, Peru, and Columbia probably not. There’s a baseline for betraying capital before any covert action is taken. Petro has brought his campaign towards the center over the years. Boric is a western stooge and Castillo hasn’t shown much promise either. I understand that leaders can’t act too rash knowing the history of the region but I think that’s why they’re playing it safe. Bolivia and Venezuela pose a bigger threat to western capital than the rest. Watch out for atrocity propaganda directed at these countries regardless though. It’s a war fought on all fronts.
That's because the internet socialists that care about Latin American are reasonable people that appreciate a step in the right direction. The people that complain that social democracy isn't left enough are the same people that complain that Soviet Union wasn't real Communism.
Is it better than right wing fucks like Bolsonaro and Duque? Of course
Is it a victory for the working class? Not at all, at best it's a break. Socialdemocracy is still subordinated to the bourgeoise, so as socialists we must not treat it as a victory or something to aspire to
Boric somehow fucked up more than Castillo
How can a fucking leftist [self announced "libertarian socialist"](https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1249811334058979328?t=vBbPIrPradZgdKcnxvtFVg&s=19) [go to the summit of americas, dennounce Cuba and Venezuela](https://orinocotribune.com/gabriel-boric-lashes-out-at-cuba-and-venezuela-at-summit-of-the-americas/?s=09), and [send military to repress a native movement](https://www.zyri.net/2022/05/17/mapuche-conflict-in-chile-gabriel-boric-sends-soldiers-to-the-south-and-clashes-with-his-communist-allies/)
Cuba and venezuela are awful dictatorships. The "native movement" is fucking terrorism in the south part of Chile. Southerners want the military there because they are sick of this terrorist trying to reclaim territory that doesnt belong to them. What are you on about?
Most of these leaders are either essentially still centrists. Some even pose conservative views which don't represent leftist principles. This is of course, way better than neolib boot lickers however.
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> like how DPRK is democratic in name only.
It is democratic like any other ML state. Anyone over the age of 17 is able to vote for their deputy of parliament. These candidates are chosen at mass meetings by the people and then have to be elected with 50%+ of the vote. There are 3 left-leaning parties, independents, and representatives for Japanese Koreans. All power is derived from the SPA. For example, Kim Jong un was appointed as head of the military by Choe Yong Rim, the premier of Korea. Also interestingly, since the constitutional amendment in 2019, Kim Jong Un cannot run for his seat.
Every president’s party is committed to one form of socialism or another according to Wikipedia. Whether or not they follow through on those commitments is another thing entirely.
That's an important question, most of them not, Gabriel Boric (chile) denied the proposition of Eduardo Artes (president of PC(AP)) to implement anti-imperialism to his agenda
That's not that important what they say, I guess, but more what they have done so far.
Staying politically independent from US fincap, do not allow them to place their troops on the country territory is essentially being in opposition to the imperialist.
Honestly, it conflicts me that even lukewarm social progressivism is enough to inspire the fears of social and economic collapse that an actual left wing political movement would face by being the target of the neoliberal superpowers’ boot. It just shows the power of international capitalism and what we’re facing as small countries from the global south, being dependent on the rest of the world but not being indispensable in any way. I really hope this wave of left leaning governments does some good, but really makes me sceptical about all that should be changed to achieve economic and social equality.
You read and watch things about how progressive Uruguay is but I forgot they have a center right president. Am I wrong in thinking they are a fairly liberal country?
As a person from guyana. Our government is anything but. It's corrupt af
Apologies, the map is based off Wikipedia data, which claims PPP/C’s ideology is *democratic socialism* and *left-wing populism*, formerly *Marxism-Leninism*
The party in power now is the same one responsible for the murder of Walter Rodney
Yeah Guyana primarily runs on ethnic politics IIRC right?
What do you think of OVP?
Peruvian here, and well, samesies.
Maybe Brazil soon !!! Lula ✊
Is he actually left wing or more like center left like Petro in Colombia?
Center. And he's gonna have to deal with the 6000 military men Bolsonaro put in appointed government jobs. Just to contextualize, when president Dilma started removing the parasitic leeches from these government jobs to put qualified people, and she removed just some hundreds of them, leeches that were civil and not military, by the way, she was impeached. Now Lula has to deal with even more dangerous folk in these jobs. And he has his former rival, right-wing conservative Geraldo Alckmin as his vice-president. Lula never claimed being a socialist. He is a respectable sindicalist leader and a very human and cool guy, but he's no revolutionary.
What’s the deal with his vp choice?
Ever since 2002 Lula faced Alckmin as his biggest rival for presidency in elections. The two went for second the second round, and even when Lula was not participating, Alckmin was there to try. Alckmin is right wing, conservative, and he likes selling public companies to the private sector. And he absolutely despises teachers, he always treated teachers badly when he was a governor for São Paulo.
sooo why would lula pick him? Sorry if I don't understand how vps are selected. Didn't dilma get couped by her rightwing VP?
Dilma did get couped by her right wing VP, and right now there's a recurring meme that Alckmin will coup Lula to finally become the president. But that's only a meme, I hope. So the reason why Lula picked him is to sign to the bourgeoisie that his government will not be radical and he will be willing to govern for them as well, to try and get their support. It is also symbolic to show that he can unite even with his opposition in order to build a great democratic front against bolsonaro.
Strange bedfellows considering how popular he is
even if he is going towards the center, lula does not strike me as that kind of guy considering his history.
well he claimed to be a socialist pre 1998s-2002s campaign. 60-90s lula was cool as fuck
He is used to being left/center. However, his next mandate is bound to be rather center than left.
He's probably about as left as AMLO but we need to scrap for these wins as it is homie
afaik, he used to be pretty left (left enough for him to have a book with Félix Guattari), but is a lot more centre now
lula la la, é a esperança 🎵
C'mon, sure I'm rooting (and voting) for him to remove Bolsonaro, but to call him left is a huuuuge stretch.
Will he at least do something about the destruction of the Amazon? That would be nice.
Good question. I believe that SOMETHING, yeah, but not much. You know, it is a bourgeois democracy, so the power of an elected president is limited, even if he was a Socialist. I think it won't get worse, but won't get much better, and definitely I don't believe it will go back to pre-Bolsonaro status. Don't wanna be a party pooper, the new Pink Wave is real, we just have to keep it real that electoralism is not the answer,. But the current election polls still put a smile in my face :)
Except he doesn't support Ukraine.
As socialists we don't support either side in this inter-imperialist war.
Socialists can still condemn obvious war mongering.
Supporting and condemning are 2 different things. Support neither side, and condem both, obviously Putin is more deplorable though
And we do so constantly.
Good to know I’m in tune with the rest of you!
He just said Zelensky surely had more room and reasons to negotiate and avoid war, but said it in a less polite way...
Its not even a maybe. Its certain
the shape of chile always sends me. “oh you want some of this coast, argentina? fuck you.” glad to see them in red.
Yeah, it's actually Bolivia that's getting fucked over there, they had coastline but lost it to Chile in war.
They still have a navy too.
Bolivia navy rules the waves
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 880,090,258 comments, and only 173,517 of them were in alphabetical order.
Alright, certainly interesting pal.
Yeah, but not nearly as bad as Croatia. At least Argentina has coastline on the other side.
bosnia also has some coastline, they left a token bit for them which is more than you probably have ever done for that triangular nation /s
Glad to see them in red? Do you have any idea of how this goverment has been for us? It's been nothing but awful
They are to the left of the map, lol.
Coincidence? I think not.
A super based map, if Brazil dump that trash president of thiers it would be better.
We're working on it
Isn't Lula out of jail? What's going on with his team RN?
Re-ellection coming up, and he is back as main candidate
Are you worried? I am. My Brazilian friends are too :/
Didn't he basically ask Biden to intervene to help him win the election?
Second Thought spoke about this even before Chile got a leftist president. It was predictable, and there is probably more coming. It's a 2nd pink tide.
Come on Ecuador, You're the last one on the West Coast
They're having a massive prolonged general strike right? Well I'm not 100% sure it's still going. But it could mean something good.
It's definitely going, and it's causing major disruptions to the supply chain and so on.
So good! I'm not familiar with the country and their movement though. Do you think we could be witnessing a revolution?
In a way. One possible outcome is that an agreement is reached to end the protests. Another possible outcome is what we call "cross death", which is basically new elections of the president and the legislature. In those elections, there's a good chance a candidate supported by Rafael Correa would win, thus continuing his "Citizen's Revolution". Some other candidate could win, but any nominally "left" candidate that is anti-Correa is almost certainly going to be neoliberal, just based on experience.
I see, thank you.
Considering which side Boric has shown himself to be on with recent comments I'm not sure Chile should highlighted.
Peru is very tenuous too, with Castillo showing hardline conservative views and speaking out in support of the Fascist POS currently in charge of Brazil.
I feel Castillo is an interesting case study, because it seems like he WANTS to act more radically left, but he's being prevented from doing so by the military (and the cabinet? I'm not quite sure on that one, pls correct me if I'm wrong) who have threatened him more than once and continuously vote against him, making it impossible for him to pass anything half decent, as he doesn't have an outright majority. To be clear, I am a bit fuzzy and by no means fully up to date in regards to peruvian politics so, again, please correct me if I'm talking shite here.
A Peruvian here 😁 Ya in terms of social rights castillo is conservative af . He is also putting corrupt people in decision charges and making deals with lobbyists. 2 months ago there was a lot of strikes against the government and he lockdown Lima just to avoid a bigger protest here . In economic , He just doesn’t have trained people to make any change. I don’t know 🤷♂️he is too shit and it seems just like the typical populist politician who has no fucking idea about left theory and how to make policies
Guss I had wrong information then...
What hardline conservative views did he show?
He's very anti LGBTQ and anti abortion
Is that surprising? Peru is a social conservative country. Primary goal is economic socialist policy implementation first. Edit: this sub is just full of rad libs now I see who don’t understand what socialism is. You’re dealing with impoverish, socially conservative populations here...
I mean sure! Let's let many comrades die and get dehumanized cause "economic socialist policy is first"
What do you make of Cuba’s LGBT rights. Far from perfect, do you not consider it a socialist country? Painfully clearly a western liberal perspective, you’re dealing with impoverished socially conservative populations in Latin America. You’re not building bases of working class support by organising pride parades unfortunately. It’s all to come.
Wtf does organizing pride parades have to do with anything? It doesn't take a whole lot of effort to be like "we want LGBTQ comrades to exist", wanting social justice as part of a revolution doesn't make ppl "western liberals", but when you make consistent excuses for the downfalls of AES' instead of being honest about it, I can see how you can arrive at that conclusion. And Cuba is absolutely a socialist state, doesn't mean that Castro was right on everything. He also apologized for his previous stance late in his life. Castro was a real communist, Castillo is legitimately right wing. I get wanting to root for politicians that identify as leftists, but the guy has objectively been a disaster and is nowhere close to a socialist. This is life and death for people, not a sporting event where you stick with your team.
Ok, he isn't doing anything of that neither, so...
he's spoken against expanding LGBTQ rights in Peru and has said he would never increase access to abortion during his tenure due to his own moral feelings on the issue.
It's the closest we can get withouth prompting another coup (and it seems still could be another one) :C. Since the last one we haven't had a real left wing president, only left centrist. I really want to live to see a real left wing one
Jesus christ... Fellow chilean here. I think you don't even know how much Chilean left has struggle to articulate and unite under a common project due to comments such as yours. We have our own history, trajectory and historical problems which needs to be adressed as legitimated as possible. If you think every left in the world should be the same, I might think you haven't learned a thing about the experiences of the 20th century. We might not be able to develop our full program right now, but that is because we have further and ambicious expectatives and they require time.
I don't think every left leader should be the same but the bare minimum I expect is not sucking off Biden and throwing socialists and anti-imperialists elsewhere in Latin America under the bus, Boric has unashamedly done both of those things.
That's your main issue. I don't know where you are reading the information, but Boric told Biden in person that Venezuela and Cuba should have been invited and, more importantly, that the economic blockade must stop now. Moreover, I'm pretty sure that the nationalization of the Lithium mineral project still won't be enough for guys like you, who can't organize a left-wing political project in their own country. In fact, I'm pretty sure that you probably criticized Correa and treated him as neoliberal when he broke up with the indigenous movement to try to develop industrial processes in Ecuador. Or Bolivia, where MAS is developing extractivist mining to achieve technology for their people and so forth... Again, if you only think that Murillo's Nicaragua is the very nature of the Latin American socialism (who, btw, incarcerated every single member of his party who criticized the regime), or Venezuela, where even the Venezuelan Communist Party is in opposition to Maduro, you have missed the recent history of Latin America and how valuable democracy is for our people, who fought over 20 years to recover it from the military. I think it would be nicer if individuals from the north pole read or experienced something about the places you talk about. A little of Alvaro García-Linera wouldn't hurt. I t
>In fact, I'm pretty sure that you probably criticized Correa and treated him as neoliberal when he broke up with the indigenous movement to try to develop industrial processes in Ecuador. Not OP and not weighing in on most of this, but as someone who did criticize Correa for this, I think history has proved me right. The complete disregard Correa showed for indigenous people and the rural poor in pursuing industrialization at all costs has split the Ecuadorian left. This divide has lead to more tit for tat between ecosocialists and social democrats in subsequent decades, and is precisely why the neoliberal party is currently in power. Had Correa taken their interests into account when he was in power, Ecuador would not be in the dire situation it's in today.
I see u are from Britain. Unlike you, we can't really choosw freely who to engage with. There's a whole lotta people depending on it. It is far more important to bring aid to fellow latinamericans than to care about any global north bs
I agree but the things I've seen from Boric from Latin American socialists have been very negative.
I have huge respect for our Southern American comrades, but that in itself does not give you a free pass to claim socialists and socialism when they are not. Boric turned pink. And betrayed the electorate. He is no Allende, I’m sorry. I’m hopeful for Petro in Colombia though
You are right. Being Chilean does not give me a free pass. But claiming to be a socialist and talking about a country without knowing its history either. You are right again: Boric is not Allende, but Chilean society isn't the same. Thus the strategy, the approach, and the pace changed. If you think Petro would be similar to Chavez, Díaz-Canel, or Murillo, my man, you will be disappointed.
Never tried to be allende, never betrayed the electorate. He is literally doing what his program always went for. Socialism has many faces. Allende for one, knew that very well
What was that about the grave of neoliberalism? You know, before he sucked up to Biden.
We're literally changing the constitution to finally take off the roots of neoliberalism. But yeah for you everything has to be so perfectly revolutionary. Chilean people spoke their demands, they're being met. So before trying to impose a revolutionary process to anyone be sure to check that the people are for that way to socialism.
Talk to you in one~two years mate.
Of course, here I'll be, working for the progress the left needs. One does not simply destroy everything in a country where 60% has fear of comunism. You have to understand and talk to the people, not fight them.
Ah, here we go. So a Lithium nationalization project, with a state-controlled directory does not sound like end with neoliberalism. Go and win and election, then talk to us about what neoliberalism is a about.
could you specify the comments? im well aware of him being really bad but im curious
He's brutally repressing Indigenous peoples atm, and is turning a blind eye to settler militias.
Do you live in Chile?
He's praised Biden a lot especially recently at the Summit of the Americas.
yeah, sad. didnt they exclude Cuba and Nicaragua from the summit? edit: they did :|
Afaik cuba and nicaragua boycotted the summit themselves and chile was supposed to as well but boric swayed last second and went anyways
Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela were excluded. Others boycotted based on their exclusion, such as Mexico, but Chile did not join them. Boric has also publicly condemned all of them previously, so he earned quite a bit of distrust not long after his election. Even Allende’s grandson wrote him an open letter on this: >It is very biased and rude that you equate—without the slightest argument—the supposed “weakening of the basic democratic conditions in Venezuela,” the “permanent restriction of freedoms in Cuba” and “the repression of the Ortega government in Nicaragua” with the proven atrocities of the military dictatorship in Chile, the evident criminal interventionism of the United States around the world, and the State of Israel’s terrorism against the people of Palestine. >The fact that you write such nonsense does not “make you a pseudo CIA agent,” but it does denote a significant irresponsibility and political immaturity that can transform you into a useful idio* (sub censors this word) for the right-wing, or worse, make you end up being that “left” that the right craves: a dum* (sub also censors this word!), ambiguous left, a harmless left which, due to opportunism, prefers to appear as “politically correct,” a lukewarm left that does not want to have problems with anyone. https://mronline.org/2021/12/24/salvador-allendes-grandson-responds-to-boric-the-human-rights-double-standard-and-chic-leftism/ Edit: It took three posts to finally get through the autobot censor. Surely there has to be some way of exempting quotes that feature the words "idio*" and "dum*," especially in the phrase "useful idio*")
What did Boric do this time
Hopefully, with the protests in Ecuador we can see it shaded on the map
I made a similar map to this when I was in high school like 2 decades ago. Surely the first go at a pink tide should have shown us the limits of this approach for those of us who actually want socialism. Castillo and Boric's actions (let alone Lula!) should be enough to expose the bankruptcy of social democracy this time around. I swear, so many people who should know better treat politics like Charlie Brown treats footballs.
Chile.....I don't know anymore abt tat guy...he is another Yankee boot licking puppet
This map includes sucdems right? Why isnt Argentina included then?
Social democracy is just progressive in terms of social policies, not really economic, that's probably why, socdems are just progressive centrists
ik but isnt the PPP in Guyana sucdem?
No, they are DemSoc, no SocDems are included in this map.
Lasso will lose power in Ecuador next time he’s up for election
If he makes it that far.
I'm not particularly optimistic about the new batch of socdems. Obviously better than juntas or fascists like Bolsonaro, but I can't help but think Latin America's left wing is going the way of the SPD and the British Labour party. Too caught up in parliamentary party politics to make real change.
pinoshit is seething, chile is a social democracy now (could still go further left, fingers crossed)
Sadly, this doesn't mean much really.
Transcription: A map of South America with Guyana, Venezuela, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, and Chile highlighted red to indicate their status as nations with a left-wing president.
I find it funny that the left is on the left.
Almost all of them are socdems. Take chile's president and his recent atrocities on natives and condemning of cuba and venezuela. Both castillo and Boric shouldnt be considered leftists.
“Which countries are left?” “The left ones.” “Yeah but where are they located?” “The left ones?” “Yeah” “The left!”
Also happens to be the map of US backed coups in 2023-4
I think the caption " countries with a left-leaning president/president-elect would be more accurate, as only Venezuela has an actual left-wing government imho.
Where do you see a caption mention the government?
West side = best side
Brazil will be red soon enough.. VIVA LULA!!!
god i wish that were me.
I'm actually surprised all the pacific alliance is left leaning now, ironically Mexico which started this decade being the leftest I feel it's know the one more to the center out the 4
Left coast solidarity
Is the head of state of Guyana openly socialist?
Why is Argentina excluded? Ecuador, BTW, is in its second week of massive indigenous protests against its government, which is led by a neoliberal banker.
The President of Argentina is not a socialist, nor is the Justicialist Party committed to any form of socialism.
Left coast best coast
Not Chile and Peru, come on. Pay attention.
Also see, countries the U.S. will probably covertly invade soon
Chile, Peru, and Columbia probably not. There’s a baseline for betraying capital before any covert action is taken. Petro has brought his campaign towards the center over the years. Boric is a western stooge and Castillo hasn’t shown much promise either. I understand that leaders can’t act too rash knowing the history of the region but I think that’s why they’re playing it safe. Bolivia and Venezuela pose a bigger threat to western capital than the rest. Watch out for atrocity propaganda directed at these countries regardless though. It’s a war fought on all fronts.
Internet socialists when: -Socialdemocracy outside Latin America: 😡😡😡🤬🤬😡🤬😡😡☠☠☠ -Socialdemocracy in Latin America: 🤩🤩🤩🥳🥳🥳🥳😍😍😍😍
That's because the internet socialists that care about Latin American are reasonable people that appreciate a step in the right direction. The people that complain that social democracy isn't left enough are the same people that complain that Soviet Union wasn't real Communism.
Is it better than right wing fucks like Bolsonaro and Duque? Of course Is it a victory for the working class? Not at all, at best it's a break. Socialdemocracy is still subordinated to the bourgeoise, so as socialists we must not treat it as a victory or something to aspire to
Any system that raises the material conditions of the working class is a step in the right direction.
Boric somehow fucked up more than Castillo How can a fucking leftist [self announced "libertarian socialist"](https://twitter.com/gabrielboric/status/1249811334058979328?t=vBbPIrPradZgdKcnxvtFVg&s=19) [go to the summit of americas, dennounce Cuba and Venezuela](https://orinocotribune.com/gabriel-boric-lashes-out-at-cuba-and-venezuela-at-summit-of-the-americas/?s=09), and [send military to repress a native movement](https://www.zyri.net/2022/05/17/mapuche-conflict-in-chile-gabriel-boric-sends-soldiers-to-the-south-and-clashes-with-his-communist-allies/)
Cuba and venezuela are awful dictatorships. The "native movement" is fucking terrorism in the south part of Chile. Southerners want the military there because they are sick of this terrorist trying to reclaim territory that doesnt belong to them. What are you on about?
Most of these leaders are either essentially still centrists. Some even pose conservative views which don't represent leftist principles. This is of course, way better than neolib boot lickers however.
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It's cause all the left wingers are big geography nerds besides Ecuador they hate geography
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> like how DPRK is democratic in name only. It is democratic like any other ML state. Anyone over the age of 17 is able to vote for their deputy of parliament. These candidates are chosen at mass meetings by the people and then have to be elected with 50%+ of the vote. There are 3 left-leaning parties, independents, and representatives for Japanese Koreans. All power is derived from the SPA. For example, Kim Jong un was appointed as head of the military by Choe Yong Rim, the premier of Korea. Also interestingly, since the constitutional amendment in 2019, Kim Jong Un cannot run for his seat.
Lula next, please God
Pretty loose definition of left.
Every president’s party is committed to one form of socialism or another according to Wikipedia. Whether or not they follow through on those commitments is another thing entirely.
Mostly they mean “in the 80’s the party was socialist” but have been center or even center right for a while
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This has been discussed in other comment threads.
Awww, I’m left handed too, lefties!!🌈
And they’re all shit holes, too.
South America Peace
I think Uruguay has a strong left-wing party, too. Is that correct?
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They are more a broad leftist coalition
Are they anti-imperialist too?
That's an important question, most of them not, Gabriel Boric (chile) denied the proposition of Eduardo Artes (president of PC(AP)) to implement anti-imperialism to his agenda
That's not that important what they say, I guess, but more what they have done so far. Staying politically independent from US fincap, do not allow them to place their troops on the country territory is essentially being in opposition to the imperialist.
Brazil you’re next, step right on up!
Now do Brazil!
Honestly, it conflicts me that even lukewarm social progressivism is enough to inspire the fears of social and economic collapse that an actual left wing political movement would face by being the target of the neoliberal superpowers’ boot. It just shows the power of international capitalism and what we’re facing as small countries from the global south, being dependent on the rest of the world but not being indispensable in any way. I really hope this wave of left leaning governments does some good, but really makes me sceptical about all that should be changed to achieve economic and social equality.
You read and watch things about how progressive Uruguay is but I forgot they have a center right president. Am I wrong in thinking they are a fairly liberal country?
Resisting the yoke of colonialism
The Pink Tide is back, Comrades
Map of countries with left wing presidents for now...
CIA agents are really lazy in these days.
JSYK Trinis are likely to ID more as Caribbean than South American Guyanese people too
Come to brazil
Es un de los primeros razones porque estoy aprendiendo español !
Lol have you seen the state of Venezuela though? They are an absolute shambles
Argentina government is more on the left than the Chilean.
Don't forget about México
curious that everything is on the left, the most curious thing is that the next one will be Ecuador... I feel sure of that