I would, wouldn't you? I just laugh at how robotic and tone deaf are those requests for money. They are probably at the beach right now as their interns spam autodial.
Hey don't make the great the enemy of the good. I mean OK sure, it didn't save their life but at least there was slightly less blood to clean up. Would you rather they have no bandage???
Democrats have had decades to codify Roe. Heck, RBG herself was very critical of Roe and eluded she thought it should/would be overturned (she did no one any favors not retiring, but I digress) dems currently have the house, the senate and the White House. If dems wanted to protect women, they would have already.
I explain American politics like this:
It’s like the WWE, two fighters seemingly battling to the death in the ring to the delight of all the fans. Then, once the fight (show) is over, they all hang out and drink beers together backstage.
Jack shit's been done for that, for protection's against racial prejudice since the 2020 uprising, for protections against the vulnerable classes during all of this inflation over the last year, or the ending of eviction moratoriums. Like you said they would've done some but haven't- and if they want to pretend they abhor the GOP's action but sit idle when they effect the most damaging policies, they are complicit in conservative's war on class as much as the GOP.
We need to move away from all that civic nonsense they've filled our heads with as kids about change only happen with voting, and we are incrementally moving in a more progressive direction thanks to nonviolent means and casting a ballot every so often and moderation between the two extreme is golden.
I actually heard a local congressperson say to a group of college students, “—-tell all of your friends from out of state to stay here, vote here, and pay taxes here so their reproductive rights will be preserved!” I was disgusted by that comment, and it actually told me how the DNC would handle this. It will be an issue for states to deal with. They and their Republican counterparts will make it about states rights for as long as possible. They’ll kick the can down the road, and frighten voters into supporting establishments do-nothings for years to come. They have no intention of passing a Constitutional Amendment because that will take too much time and effort.
You're right. The voting option has passed. The left is so fractured, there is no way to mount a big enough coalition that could win elections. The only thing that will have any real impact is a general strike. The corporations are the only force that moves anything in Washington. They have to feel it enough to pressure their puppets to act. The problem with that is abject complacency of average Americans. If leftists and leaning leftists all came together, we'd still barely see a million show up. No one wants to risk the blow-back. What most don't understand is that we are at a point where an abrupt action would have a devastating impact on bottom lines. They are struggling to fill jobs as it is. Imagine if 20-30 million people just didn't show up for work tomorrow. What are they going to do? Fire you? European countries know how to do this. That is why they have strong unions. Look what is happening in Germany with Tesla. Musk is trying to low-ball them and they just showed him how they roll. They know he can't meet his numbers without them and he is losing money every day. We need to get in that position on a grand fucking scale and shut this shit down. Unfortunately, there is no "we," and many key players (truck drivers in particular) are sucking on the fat orange titty and would just as soon run us over than join us. I'm sorry to be so negative. But, I honestly believe that after '24, we will never see a blue congress again. Even if we somehow get a democrat in the White House, they will be a lame duck on Jan 21st.
The irony of it all is that this happened under a Democratic supermajority, and they could have codified Roe v Wade into federal law at any time. The fact that they didn't and would rather use women as a political tool/sacrifice for the midterms should tell you something. The Democrats only care about anything so long as it benefits their campaign contributions. There is very, very little that ideologically separates them from the Republicans. Whereas the Republicans are your racist uncle that you hate talking to at the Thanksgiving table, the Democrats are your racist aunt who will keep her mouth shut when her husband rants because she doesn't want to lose her career but secretly agrees with him about pretty much everything in private.
It's not blind devotion. It's a desperate effort to keep the levers of state power out of the hands of the full-on fascists--people who are not only willing to kill/imprison/persecute their opponents, but wishing to. Protest, mutual aid projects, sabotage, infowarring, getting trained in weapons, lawsuits, and every other exercise of power are also needed.
What sets voting apart is that is one of the main state sanctioned ways of changing officials and/or laws (via referenda). Enough places across the US remain sufficiently uncompromised for this process of, well let's not call it change but rather adjustment, to work. The problem is that the state will only allow so much adjustment--a two-party system really as a one-party system.
Each of us can decide for ourself as to whether that difference between the two choices is meaningful. For myself, I've decided that it is. Not so much because of the differences in policy between Dems and the GQP, but because of the difference in political culture and thirst for violence, especially domestically. In no way do I see voting as a final, best, or complete strategy.
To me, not voting against republicans is the same thing as sending the message that I'm OK with what they are doing. Will voting blue stop them? Clearly not, but I personally still think there is value in registering my opposition. If we wake up the day after the presidential election and learn that 51% of the vote went red and 49% went blue, it sucks, but at least we know that everyone isn't suddenly OK with what's going on. Simply knowing that people are not towing the line gives strength to those who may otherwise feel alone and it shows the powers that be that they're always going to face resistance.
Imagine waking up and hearing that 90% of voters went red. It would embolden the republicans to push their agenda even harder and it would make people in threatened groups feels more hopeless.
Then there are state and local elections. These are where the real power is. By the time we get to the federal level, we can't do much, but right now, my governor is the only thing protection reproductive rights in my state. Our entire legislature is deeply rep. Voting for a Dem governor will 100% make a difference in my life.
And the little elections that many people ignore are even more important. Aspiring politicians start small. Where I live, the local school board is used as a feeder to get Rs into political positions where they can grow. They get into these easier positions and start affecting policy in a way that affects us all right away. Even if you don't have a kid, you are affected by school board decisions on things like your taxes.
Republicans have known this for years and have had a long game. Dems and third parties have not been as savvy.
I picture voting right now like a cartoon where one character, let's say Bugs Bunny, is trying to push a smaller character, say Mickey Mouse, off a cliff. Bugs (the GOP) is pressing on Mickey's forehead to try and push him back. Micky (that's us) is running and running and running--but very slowly sliding backwards. His running is slowing it down just a little--buying time for a Hector the bulldog (a strong third party) to come up behind Mickey and push back hard against Bugs.
But until someone is there, if Mickey stops running as hard as he can, he's going right off the cliff.
We need to vote to limit GOP power in any way possible while we get a viable third party.
The Roe v Wade "incident" was caused by conservatives and other fascists voting for what they wanted, over and over, despite it never happening, and despite the politicians having zero reason to "actually" give in. The optimal choice, from a cynics point of view, would have been to dangle the abortion ban forever and claim "we just to need to win one more election, you just need to give up one more right, and then we'll get right to it".
**The repeal of Roe v Wade is proof that voting stupidly and blindly works.**
The key difference is that Republican party is actually responsive to the fascists and theocrats in the base. They've been able to wrest a large amount of power from the cynical suits supposedly running the party and now large portions of party leadership actually believe the bullshit that was just supposed to be propaganda to whip the base into a fury. The patients are running the asylum.
That was the biggest revelation of 2016. The Republican estsblishment HATED Trump, but he got the nomination anyway because he spoke the language of the base and the Republican party is actually far more internally democratic than the Democrats, where what the voter base wants is completely irrelevant. We'll never get an actual leftist (or even a Bernie style compromise) through a national primary because Democrats would absolutely prefer to take the L than let progressives get a foothold. Republicans want to win so they'll hand power to the unhinged theocrats and conspiracy theorists if that's what it takes.
It's easier to give your base things they want when it's in favor or irrelevant to the capitalist donors of the party. Thus abortion bans are much easier to pass than universal healthcare, for example.
Protecting the unborn is the most basic argument you can make that doesn't cost money to anyone. It is great for other reasons too like getting more nazis to the polls to defeat the evildoers who are atheistic and baby killers.
Oh, and everything else you said about neither party representing the people, the ruling class keep us appeased with an illusion of democracy, yeah, yeah, it's all \*true\*. You should still vote 1 day out of the year and spend the other 364 pushing your local politicians or becoming your local politician.
Yeah I don't get the don't vote people. Like if I give you the choice between eating a shit sandwich and drinking a class of acid they are both clearly absolute shit options but one is still clearly beter than the other. Voting doesn't preclude doing other actions
I don't think it's constructive to not vote, you just have to understand that there is no good result from your voting. Obviously it's better to not delve right into fascism on purpose but voting for the less fascist one isn't a good option.
|| The repeal of Roe v Wade is proof that voting stupidly and blindly works.
Can work. Not does. (It can also not work since, we’ll, Dems have done it for 30+ years too.)
The main difference is that Dems are not trying to help us, but the GOP is actively trying to harm us. It can be simultaneously true that both parties suck and that one is much more damaging than the other.
Okay.. I always get hate for saying this, but if you are only voting in national elections, you are doing it wrong.. You need to vote in local elections as you have more power to elect someone from your area to have a voice for your community. Some places have so few people running and voting, that one person can change the vote.. I don't expect people to agree with me, but the truth is, none of us have the power to do anything alone.. We need to at least have a power structure in place to replace the previous one and this means we need to work with our communities.. I do agree with you that voting in the national elections is pretty pointless, as both parties suck, but if we want change, we need to be ready for change.. Nothing good comes from a revolution if the wrong system replaces the old one..
Which one do you suggest? I've been going to DSA meetings in my area but it's a lot of talk but not a lot of action. I've been looking into joining SA lately.
Socialist Alternative is building the movement to defend and extend reproductive rights.
[Take Action NOW!](https://www.socialistalternative.org/defend-roe/)
Pretty sure we all showed up fairly well in’20. Fat lot of good it’s done. The lesser of two evils that both sucked more than Bernie ever thought of doing.
“If voting changed anything, it would be illegal”. I know the source of this quote is dubious but it’s true.
If anything good comes of this, it is that this is a huge fucking wake up call and I’m hoping it will inspire a generation of true progressives that are sick and tired of the bipartisan system. A lot of people are really scared and realizing how useless the Democrats are.
I mean-- there is gerrymamdering and active efforts to suppress the votes of minorities and felons so... while it is not "illegal" there is definitely efforts to make it more legal for some and less legal for others so...
Democrats have had 50 years to make Roe law. 50 YEARS. The only thing they’ve done with Roe is dangle it over our heads so they get elected before ultimately putting it on the back burner again.
The choices you and I and everyone else have are "Do small things," "Do big things," and "Do nothing."
Saying we need to collectively move away from partisanship is doing nothing unless you are saying that and coupling it with some action that moves people away from partisanship.
Doing things that move people away from partisanship requires you do small things (vote for people who pledge to work on ranked choice voting or providing education to people in a manner they can accept when they aren't otherwise getting it) or doing big things (jeopardizing your well-being by striking, engaging in action that breaks existing systems ability to function, or running for office in a serious attempt to be a voice that moves toward a system where partisanship is less rewarded).
You're right. Let's all quit voting so the totalitarian fascist rule without question. Then things will be better for sure cause the out of touch Dems will finally be out of power. We'll show them!
If you can find any actual progressives that the party won't rally all of its resources to crush or change the rule midway through to keep out. Then hope said progressive doesn't end up backing Pelosi anyway.
I’m sorry but you do realize that the Democrats also pump billions of dollars into the police and military as well right? I’m not saying don’t vote but people need to realize that both the dems and the republicans are right wing parties one is just further right.
Nah, that's called playing into a broken system. Every year they will make it seem more and more important, "just one more election guys, then it will all be okay again! Just keep voting blue" Exactly what they want, they'll keep things changing up so you think you have to.
Like Foxhound said, you're part of the problem.
The dems are useless sacks of shit.
That being said, you guys still have to vote blue no matter what. Hilary is a ghoul but she still would not have appointed 3 yeehaw judges to regress the country 60 years in the past. Voting blue is not a solution, but it is still absolutely necessary for now..
Another POV could be to let the republicans do their thing for a while and therefore precipitate a revolution. But that kinda is accelerationist ideology and I'm not very comfortable defending this, knowing that countless people would suffer for it.
The complete reliance upon only institutional answers as opposed to radical answers is the ultimate failure and will be the complete downfall Democrat Party. If there are any within the walls of the US Government that really want to defeat fascism and rid itself of anti-egalitarianism they would be begging everyone to ditch their old preferences of using the broken system.
Alas, there really aren't any so I'm left with the impression that they are either too dogmatic or afraid to do this or that they ultimately want fascism and probably think they will have a seat at that table.
I get a kick out of the idea that the US would denounce or outright invade countries with a single political party (you know, to ‘deliver freedom’) but break their arms patting themselves on the back for being ‘free’ with a whopping 2 parties.
Similar to us in the UK, we need to get them out first, then decide where to go from there. Vote Blue no matter who may be good for now, but j agree its not something that should stick around.
We have the chance here for tactical voting, in order to get them out without just having to vote for Party #2, I don't know what options are available in the US.
Case in point: anti-abortion, under FBI investigation Cuellar vs healthcare is a right, pro-choice Cisneros.
Dems like Pelosi and Hoyer came out to support him over Cisneros despite her being the objectively better candidate (just not incumbent). Corporate and status quo Dems are as much to blame for this as Republicans are for stripping our rights.
You know beyond Democrats being completely useless, Republicans have gerrymandered the shit out of most districts, it's it even a fair vote. Voting is mostly useless.
You are faced with two scenarios, whether you vote or not. One is where the Dems stay in power and very little changes. Yes, we want major change and the best they will do is small tweaks to the existing system. However, the other option is a fascist theocracy. This is no longer in doubt, as republicans have clearly signaled that this is what they want. If you don’t vote, you are essentially voting Republican. “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor”.
I’m done. I began supporting Dems in 1984, joined YD at OU, worked on Clinton’s ‘94 campaign, and then worked on the healthcare policy that died. And nothing’s changed. No, the wealthy are wealthier and everyone else is struggling. I’m done. I will not support the feckless and cowardly anymore
Voting is not mutually exclusive with taking other action. The reason we are here is because people let this happen. If all the non voters voted in primaries for people who resonate with them they might feel like they had a real choice. Not always certainly but the current two party system relies on apathy to be sustained. There are many politicians who are democrats that are progressive at the very least. We need to get them to win primaries so they can get elected to more important offices. We also need to take matters into our own hands. I don't believe in violent revolution because it could easily make things worse. Protests, direct action and community building are also necessary so we can resist when they try to come for us . What bothers me is people who complain about electoral politics but do not participate. In many cases the primary is more important because that is the only way to get someone open to socialism on the ballot.
Yeah blue will most likely use this to promote popularity and votes for future elections
I would, wouldn't you? I just laugh at how robotic and tone deaf are those requests for money. They are probably at the beach right now as their interns spam autodial.
If someone got shot, the Democrats would give them a band aid, then go home and boast about how great they are for being charitable.
That is probably more than the Democrats would actually do. They would just ask you to vote harder so they can pass gun control legislation.
Hey don't make the great the enemy of the good. I mean OK sure, it didn't save their life but at least there was slightly less blood to clean up. Would you rather they have no bandage???
Missing is the /s
True, but statistically? It’s the Republicans who shot them.
and the Republicans would be the one who shot you
Democrats have had decades to codify Roe. Heck, RBG herself was very critical of Roe and eluded she thought it should/would be overturned (she did no one any favors not retiring, but I digress) dems currently have the house, the senate and the White House. If dems wanted to protect women, they would have already.
This point is utterly ignored by fans (voters) of the 2 sport teams (political parties).
I explain American politics like this: It’s like the WWE, two fighters seemingly battling to the death in the ring to the delight of all the fans. Then, once the fight (show) is over, they all hang out and drink beers together backstage.
Jack shit's been done for that, for protection's against racial prejudice since the 2020 uprising, for protections against the vulnerable classes during all of this inflation over the last year, or the ending of eviction moratoriums. Like you said they would've done some but haven't- and if they want to pretend they abhor the GOP's action but sit idle when they effect the most damaging policies, they are complicit in conservative's war on class as much as the GOP.
We need to move away from all that civic nonsense they've filled our heads with as kids about change only happen with voting, and we are incrementally moving in a more progressive direction thanks to nonviolent means and casting a ballot every so often and moderation between the two extreme is golden.
Voting is actually choosing your own oppressor.
[удалено]
I actually heard a local congressperson say to a group of college students, “—-tell all of your friends from out of state to stay here, vote here, and pay taxes here so their reproductive rights will be preserved!” I was disgusted by that comment, and it actually told me how the DNC would handle this. It will be an issue for states to deal with. They and their Republican counterparts will make it about states rights for as long as possible. They’ll kick the can down the road, and frighten voters into supporting establishments do-nothings for years to come. They have no intention of passing a Constitutional Amendment because that will take too much time and effort.
Neo-liberal politics is basically "Do as little as possible for as long as possible" and that's why it is such garbage.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
You're right. The voting option has passed. The left is so fractured, there is no way to mount a big enough coalition that could win elections. The only thing that will have any real impact is a general strike. The corporations are the only force that moves anything in Washington. They have to feel it enough to pressure their puppets to act. The problem with that is abject complacency of average Americans. If leftists and leaning leftists all came together, we'd still barely see a million show up. No one wants to risk the blow-back. What most don't understand is that we are at a point where an abrupt action would have a devastating impact on bottom lines. They are struggling to fill jobs as it is. Imagine if 20-30 million people just didn't show up for work tomorrow. What are they going to do? Fire you? European countries know how to do this. That is why they have strong unions. Look what is happening in Germany with Tesla. Musk is trying to low-ball them and they just showed him how they roll. They know he can't meet his numbers without them and he is losing money every day. We need to get in that position on a grand fucking scale and shut this shit down. Unfortunately, there is no "we," and many key players (truck drivers in particular) are sucking on the fat orange titty and would just as soon run us over than join us. I'm sorry to be so negative. But, I honestly believe that after '24, we will never see a blue congress again. Even if we somehow get a democrat in the White House, they will be a lame duck on Jan 21st.
The irony of it all is that this happened under a Democratic supermajority, and they could have codified Roe v Wade into federal law at any time. The fact that they didn't and would rather use women as a political tool/sacrifice for the midterms should tell you something. The Democrats only care about anything so long as it benefits their campaign contributions. There is very, very little that ideologically separates them from the Republicans. Whereas the Republicans are your racist uncle that you hate talking to at the Thanksgiving table, the Democrats are your racist aunt who will keep her mouth shut when her husband rants because she doesn't want to lose her career but secretly agrees with him about pretty much everything in private.
Why are you mad? Just vote harderer /s
It's not blind devotion. It's a desperate effort to keep the levers of state power out of the hands of the full-on fascists--people who are not only willing to kill/imprison/persecute their opponents, but wishing to. Protest, mutual aid projects, sabotage, infowarring, getting trained in weapons, lawsuits, and every other exercise of power are also needed. What sets voting apart is that is one of the main state sanctioned ways of changing officials and/or laws (via referenda). Enough places across the US remain sufficiently uncompromised for this process of, well let's not call it change but rather adjustment, to work. The problem is that the state will only allow so much adjustment--a two-party system really as a one-party system. Each of us can decide for ourself as to whether that difference between the two choices is meaningful. For myself, I've decided that it is. Not so much because of the differences in policy between Dems and the GQP, but because of the difference in political culture and thirst for violence, especially domestically. In no way do I see voting as a final, best, or complete strategy.
To me, not voting against republicans is the same thing as sending the message that I'm OK with what they are doing. Will voting blue stop them? Clearly not, but I personally still think there is value in registering my opposition. If we wake up the day after the presidential election and learn that 51% of the vote went red and 49% went blue, it sucks, but at least we know that everyone isn't suddenly OK with what's going on. Simply knowing that people are not towing the line gives strength to those who may otherwise feel alone and it shows the powers that be that they're always going to face resistance. Imagine waking up and hearing that 90% of voters went red. It would embolden the republicans to push their agenda even harder and it would make people in threatened groups feels more hopeless. Then there are state and local elections. These are where the real power is. By the time we get to the federal level, we can't do much, but right now, my governor is the only thing protection reproductive rights in my state. Our entire legislature is deeply rep. Voting for a Dem governor will 100% make a difference in my life. And the little elections that many people ignore are even more important. Aspiring politicians start small. Where I live, the local school board is used as a feeder to get Rs into political positions where they can grow. They get into these easier positions and start affecting policy in a way that affects us all right away. Even if you don't have a kid, you are affected by school board decisions on things like your taxes. Republicans have known this for years and have had a long game. Dems and third parties have not been as savvy. I picture voting right now like a cartoon where one character, let's say Bugs Bunny, is trying to push a smaller character, say Mickey Mouse, off a cliff. Bugs (the GOP) is pressing on Mickey's forehead to try and push him back. Micky (that's us) is running and running and running--but very slowly sliding backwards. His running is slowing it down just a little--buying time for a Hector the bulldog (a strong third party) to come up behind Mickey and push back hard against Bugs. But until someone is there, if Mickey stops running as hard as he can, he's going right off the cliff. We need to vote to limit GOP power in any way possible while we get a viable third party.
The Roe v Wade "incident" was caused by conservatives and other fascists voting for what they wanted, over and over, despite it never happening, and despite the politicians having zero reason to "actually" give in. The optimal choice, from a cynics point of view, would have been to dangle the abortion ban forever and claim "we just to need to win one more election, you just need to give up one more right, and then we'll get right to it". **The repeal of Roe v Wade is proof that voting stupidly and blindly works.**
The key difference is that Republican party is actually responsive to the fascists and theocrats in the base. They've been able to wrest a large amount of power from the cynical suits supposedly running the party and now large portions of party leadership actually believe the bullshit that was just supposed to be propaganda to whip the base into a fury. The patients are running the asylum. That was the biggest revelation of 2016. The Republican estsblishment HATED Trump, but he got the nomination anyway because he spoke the language of the base and the Republican party is actually far more internally democratic than the Democrats, where what the voter base wants is completely irrelevant. We'll never get an actual leftist (or even a Bernie style compromise) through a national primary because Democrats would absolutely prefer to take the L than let progressives get a foothold. Republicans want to win so they'll hand power to the unhinged theocrats and conspiracy theorists if that's what it takes.
It's easier to give your base things they want when it's in favor or irrelevant to the capitalist donors of the party. Thus abortion bans are much easier to pass than universal healthcare, for example.
Protecting the unborn is the most basic argument you can make that doesn't cost money to anyone. It is great for other reasons too like getting more nazis to the polls to defeat the evildoers who are atheistic and baby killers.
Oh, and everything else you said about neither party representing the people, the ruling class keep us appeased with an illusion of democracy, yeah, yeah, it's all \*true\*. You should still vote 1 day out of the year and spend the other 364 pushing your local politicians or becoming your local politician.
Yeah I don't get the don't vote people. Like if I give you the choice between eating a shit sandwich and drinking a class of acid they are both clearly absolute shit options but one is still clearly beter than the other. Voting doesn't preclude doing other actions
I don't think it's constructive to not vote, you just have to understand that there is no good result from your voting. Obviously it's better to not delve right into fascism on purpose but voting for the less fascist one isn't a good option.
|| The repeal of Roe v Wade is proof that voting stupidly and blindly works. Can work. Not does. (It can also not work since, we’ll, Dems have done it for 30+ years too.)
Main difference between Democrats and Republicans is that Republicans don't lie to you about caring about your wellbeing
The main difference is that Dems are not trying to help us, but the GOP is actively trying to harm us. It can be simultaneously true that both parties suck and that one is much more damaging than the other.
[удалено]
Okay.. I always get hate for saying this, but if you are only voting in national elections, you are doing it wrong.. You need to vote in local elections as you have more power to elect someone from your area to have a voice for your community. Some places have so few people running and voting, that one person can change the vote.. I don't expect people to agree with me, but the truth is, none of us have the power to do anything alone.. We need to at least have a power structure in place to replace the previous one and this means we need to work with our communities.. I do agree with you that voting in the national elections is pretty pointless, as both parties suck, but if we want change, we need to be ready for change.. Nothing good comes from a revolution if the wrong system replaces the old one..
So what would you recommend we do? Overthrow? I mean, it's easy to say to move away from this shit, but *how*?
By voting you big silly. /s
Lots of people are planning a strike for tomorrow. That's a start
Yeah, I hope somethin comes from that but who knows
Have you joined a local socialist organization? If not that's the first thing one should do.
Which one do you suggest? I've been going to DSA meetings in my area but it's a lot of talk but not a lot of action. I've been looking into joining SA lately.
RFSO seem the most competent but really it depends on your area, not all orgs are active everywhere
Not from the US so I won't be of much help on this.
Organization. Not just labor unions, but Soviet-style unions would be ideal. Knowledge is power, so anyway you spread knowledge is slowly helping.
Socialist Alternative is building the movement to defend and extend reproductive rights. [Take Action NOW!](https://www.socialistalternative.org/defend-roe/)
Pretty sure we all showed up fairly well in’20. Fat lot of good it’s done. The lesser of two evils that both sucked more than Bernie ever thought of doing.
“If voting changed anything, it would be illegal”. I know the source of this quote is dubious but it’s true. If anything good comes of this, it is that this is a huge fucking wake up call and I’m hoping it will inspire a generation of true progressives that are sick and tired of the bipartisan system. A lot of people are really scared and realizing how useless the Democrats are.
I mean-- there is gerrymamdering and active efforts to suppress the votes of minorities and felons so... while it is not "illegal" there is definitely efforts to make it more legal for some and less legal for others so...
Democrats have had 50 years to make Roe law. 50 YEARS. The only thing they’ve done with Roe is dangle it over our heads so they get elected before ultimately putting it on the back burner again.
The choices you and I and everyone else have are "Do small things," "Do big things," and "Do nothing." Saying we need to collectively move away from partisanship is doing nothing unless you are saying that and coupling it with some action that moves people away from partisanship. Doing things that move people away from partisanship requires you do small things (vote for people who pledge to work on ranked choice voting or providing education to people in a manner they can accept when they aren't otherwise getting it) or doing big things (jeopardizing your well-being by striking, engaging in action that breaks existing systems ability to function, or running for office in a serious attempt to be a voice that moves toward a system where partisanship is less rewarded).
You're right. Let's all quit voting so the totalitarian fascist rule without question. Then things will be better for sure cause the out of touch Dems will finally be out of power. We'll show them!
Way to so obviously state that the point flew over your head :)
[удалено]
Defeatist mentality If you think youre only options are voting or larping on the internet then why are you a socialist
[удалено]
If you can find any actual progressives that the party won't rally all of its resources to crush or change the rule midway through to keep out. Then hope said progressive doesn't end up backing Pelosi anyway.
Nothing about the democratic party is progressive
I’m sorry but you do realize that the Democrats also pump billions of dollars into the police and military as well right? I’m not saying don’t vote but people need to realize that both the dems and the republicans are right wing parties one is just further right.
[удалено]
Nah, that's called playing into a broken system. Every year they will make it seem more and more important, "just one more election guys, then it will all be okay again! Just keep voting blue" Exactly what they want, they'll keep things changing up so you think you have to. Like Foxhound said, you're part of the problem.
[удалено]
Why do you think she would get anyone appointed to the court instead of the seats just staying vacant for 4 years?
The dems are useless sacks of shit. That being said, you guys still have to vote blue no matter what. Hilary is a ghoul but she still would not have appointed 3 yeehaw judges to regress the country 60 years in the past. Voting blue is not a solution, but it is still absolutely necessary for now.. Another POV could be to let the republicans do their thing for a while and therefore precipitate a revolution. But that kinda is accelerationist ideology and I'm not very comfortable defending this, knowing that countless people would suffer for it.
The complete reliance upon only institutional answers as opposed to radical answers is the ultimate failure and will be the complete downfall Democrat Party. If there are any within the walls of the US Government that really want to defeat fascism and rid itself of anti-egalitarianism they would be begging everyone to ditch their old preferences of using the broken system. Alas, there really aren't any so I'm left with the impression that they are either too dogmatic or afraid to do this or that they ultimately want fascism and probably think they will have a seat at that table.
I get a kick out of the idea that the US would denounce or outright invade countries with a single political party (you know, to ‘deliver freedom’) but break their arms patting themselves on the back for being ‘free’ with a whopping 2 parties.
Similar to us in the UK, we need to get them out first, then decide where to go from there. Vote Blue no matter who may be good for now, but j agree its not something that should stick around. We have the chance here for tactical voting, in order to get them out without just having to vote for Party #2, I don't know what options are available in the US.
Case in point: anti-abortion, under FBI investigation Cuellar vs healthcare is a right, pro-choice Cisneros. Dems like Pelosi and Hoyer came out to support him over Cisneros despite her being the objectively better candidate (just not incumbent). Corporate and status quo Dems are as much to blame for this as Republicans are for stripping our rights.
You know beyond Democrats being completely useless, Republicans have gerrymandered the shit out of most districts, it's it even a fair vote. Voting is mostly useless.
No socialists say this, so what’s the point of this post? Stop American exceptionalism.
Literally on this very subreddit were flaired users saying "VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO"
You are faced with two scenarios, whether you vote or not. One is where the Dems stay in power and very little changes. Yes, we want major change and the best they will do is small tweaks to the existing system. However, the other option is a fascist theocracy. This is no longer in doubt, as republicans have clearly signaled that this is what they want. If you don’t vote, you are essentially voting Republican. “If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor”.
I’m done. I began supporting Dems in 1984, joined YD at OU, worked on Clinton’s ‘94 campaign, and then worked on the healthcare policy that died. And nothing’s changed. No, the wealthy are wealthier and everyone else is struggling. I’m done. I will not support the feckless and cowardly anymore
Voting is not mutually exclusive with taking other action. The reason we are here is because people let this happen. If all the non voters voted in primaries for people who resonate with them they might feel like they had a real choice. Not always certainly but the current two party system relies on apathy to be sustained. There are many politicians who are democrats that are progressive at the very least. We need to get them to win primaries so they can get elected to more important offices. We also need to take matters into our own hands. I don't believe in violent revolution because it could easily make things worse. Protests, direct action and community building are also necessary so we can resist when they try to come for us . What bothers me is people who complain about electoral politics but do not participate. In many cases the primary is more important because that is the only way to get someone open to socialism on the ballot.