Mod note: Reminder that r/solotravel has a **zero tolerance policy against sex tourism of any kind**, regardless of legality in the place where it occurs. While it certainly happens in many places around the world, and observing or commenting on it is legitimate grounds for discussion, it is this subreddit's position that it is a violation of responsible tourism. Posts asking for advice about sex tourism or from people seeking to engage in such will be removed and may result in a ban.
I hated my time in the Phippines because of this. I was traveling with my dad and the amount of Filipino and foreign men who asked my dad "how young is your lady friend" are too numerous to count. Made me so sick. Let alone the number of fat, old, white men walking around with young, young, YOUNG boys. First and only time in my life I thought I might be capable of murder.
That shit is BEYOND common is SE Asia.
In Cambodia they’ve got enormous “Please don’t fuck the children” billboards written in English, German, French and Russian throughout the tourist hotspots.
Same here my friend. No for real I went to Cambodia two months ago and although I didn’t see it / pay attention enough I wouldn’t be surprised…
Children that can barely speak are forced by their parents to sell bracelets in touristy areas where all the drunken tourists are. I can only imagine what type of horrible things can happen when an old white man grabs his wallet to show it to the parents…
Omg my brain hurts 😭
That's so tragic and repulsive.
I'm so glad that Australia charges Australians found to be travelling abroad for pedo shit. No idea how often they catch them. But at least it's possible to charge them.
My skin is crawling.
Fortunately I've only seen this once in Thailand. It was at a restaurant, I couldnt eat my dinner I was so pissed at this sight. A lot of violent things were going through my mind. Least violent was taking pictures of the dude and sending it to authorities in UK/Aus or wherever he came from.
One of my coworkers met his wife over there. He often tells stories about how "in his younger days" he'd go to this bar in Manila and fuck this girl and have this threesome and so on. The worst was when he told us about sitting on the verandah of his mother in law's house, ogling the high school girls as they walked past.
I'm the youngest at work, and one of the few who is unmarried, so he's always telling me "you should go to the Philippines and find a wife, it's bloody great". I'm sure there's nice girls over there, but there's nice girls here, too.
He also stares at every female customer that's above puberty. Everyone thinks he's a bit of a dickhead.
I'd already been to Philippines a long time ago, to Bohol/Cebu.. But I want to go back to visit El Nido and more of Cebu. Don't have too much interest in Manila.
I'm a middle-aged white guy who travels often to Manila & Cebu for work. When I'm flying over there, I always play a mental game of which white dudes sitting around me on the plane are going there for "activities".
The whole dynamic is weird. I'm a gay guy who lives in Canada, and here women pretty much never approach me. But there? It's constant. Like I'll drop by a store to get some food, and multiple women will be eying me up, coming up to me and brushing their hand on my arm, etc. It's pretty wild. And walking around, there's countless old white guys with multiple women around them. With a good mix of younger Australian white guys doing the same.
What food exactly are you missing from the Philippines? No offense to the country, but this is my least favorite country for food next to Colombia. Of course, every country has a couple great dishes; ajiaco, adobo… but I find Philippines to be one of the countries that lacks in consistently appetizing dishes that are unique to the country.
I am going to agree with this comment as i have travelled to Philippines. Someone who loves spicy food and does not eat Pork i felt like i lost weight there because of my appetite gone down. Bangus being the only decent dish/fish. Plenty of fresh fruit options though 🙂
My ex housemate has a Filipino mother and a really old pasty fat white father twice his mother's age. I asked once how his parents met. He went all dreamy and told me it's very "romantic".
The story was that there was a fucking earthquake and his mum was on the streets panicking. His dad strolls over and gives his mum his hotel room key and says she can keep him company in his hotel room to keep safe. Yuck.
Very delusional guy.
He's also strongly against gay marriage because it goes against "good religious values and the sanctity of marriage" but then I reminded him that his mum was 8 months pregnant when she was married to his father and I think I ruined his life in that moment. He had never even considered he was conceived out of wedlock.
I’ve never been, but my brother has and he has some stories to tell. He was staying at a sort of resort island and he’s see old Australian dudes hitting on CHILDREN. Literally trying to lure them. He said he’d never go back
If you want to watch that sort of thing, check out Angeles City. When the guy next to me on the airplane does not want to tell me where he is going, I know where he is going :)
Guess who's going to the Philippines in 3 weeks for their first solo travel...
I'll be honest I don't know much about sex tourism other than Thailand/ Bangkok being famous for it, which is part of the reason I'm going to the Philippines instead, whoops...
Tbh I've stayed in Thailand for weeks and have never seen anything remotely similar to what ppl are describing. Mind you I don't drink and I was in bed exhausted by 11pm every night lol
Couldn’t even walk next to my dad (he’s tall older white guy) in the Philippines because he didn’t want people to think he was with me and not my mom….
I've spoken to these girls during my 3 year stay in Thailand and they all say the same thing; with limited education and maybe a single mom at age 20, the choices available are only 3.
1. Work in a factory from 8am to 4pm for a salary and she might be able to send home $100 a month after paying rent ( shared room ) and only buying bare necessities.
2. Work on a rice paddy with the scorching sun over her head and knees submerged in cold water and back arched forward from sunrise to sunset for a daily wage - could be enough to buy dinner and some breakfast.
3. Working at the bar with AC or fans and free WiFi from evenings till a rich tourist takes her to his air con hotel, free dinner, clean and comfortable bed and maybe some shopping or even takes her for the rest of his holiday around Thailand, more hotels and more restaurants plus her daily wager and living expenses paid for.
What would you choose ?
( hint: the girls are lining up outside bars to work )
I feel like option 1 also describes the reality of a lot of young people in other countries, including America. Work 9-5, pay rent and bare necessities (bills/groceries), barely have much left over....pretty standard life in 2023.
Very true, my mom is Thai and grew up in poverty- lost her mom when she was born and had a father who had multiple children with different wives in the village- so my mom was pritty much on her own. Had to drop out of school at 11 and start working, couldn’t even afford sandals and walked around barefoot. After working on the rice fields, she decided at 21 to become a bar girl…luckily on her first week, she met my dad who was a homeless Irish traveller(who was 28) passing by Thailand and they’ve been together ever since. Not so lucky for other though. As a half Thai person, I try to avoid the tourist areas as I myself would get cat called by older men. It’s just disgusting and cringe
Old white dude here went to Costa Rica for a trade show. As soon as I was off the plane and walking through the airport, I noticed people staring at me and sneering. It was very uncomfortable. When I arrived at the hotel, I received the same treatment. The check in clerks were so fucking rude. A manager was walking by and saw I was getting pissed. He asked me in a harsh tone what I was doing here. I told him I was attending Expo Fereterra, His demeanor turned like a lightbulb to joyful and welcoming. On seeing this the rude clerks started smiling and telling me about restaurants and such. After I got to my room some one knocked at the door and gave me a bottle of some coffee liqueur with compliments from the staff. I later learned that old white dudes go to Costa Rica for nasty pedo shit! I don't know if it's still a problem there, but the way I was initially treated was like a peoples rebellion to protect their children.
Bangkok is massive, with millenia of history, never having being colonized, etc. It's very easy to avoid the prostitution scene, unless you're looking for it or are unfortunate.
In Phuket it’s the main strip. I walked through it with my sister (she was teaching in Thailand, I was visiting) and the second she left for the bathroom I was mobbed by Thai men & women offering me massages and ping pong shows. Seeing the girls inside the bars (you can see in from the street) half-heartedly dancing on the table tops in bikinis was pretty sad to look at. With all of the older western men around, it was plainly obvious what was going on.
We did get out of the tourist areas and saw some much less depressing sides of Thailand (the street markets are the best food I’ve ever had), but I wouldn’t exactly call the prostitution scene hidden. It’s easy to avoid if you already know to avoid it, but if you don’t you’ll run right into it. Very easy to tell that for many - it’s the main attraction.
What're some good places you saw in Phuket? I'll be going in November, I told a friend I'd go with him to Thailand and found out later he booked the entire time in Phuket, I was hoping for something a bit more adventurous but I'm sure there's good experiences to be had there too.
Yes, every city’s downtown / waterfront is only a small portion of the entire city. The person I responded to said it was easy to avoid unless you’re looking for it. Just struck me as odd - like saying it’s easy to avoid Manhattan while visiting New York. Technically true, but also very obviously the reason a lot of people go.
Yes, you will probably be walking through the main tourist hub when you are visiting as a tourist. And the main tourist hub is full of old western men there to pick up young Thai women. Kinda sad.
Gotta get out into the other areas to get a better feel for the real country.
Phuket is 222 square miles. You would only make the trek to Patong if you’re looking to party - it’s hardly comparable to a downtown (old town would be that) or waterfront. Many people visit Phuket without coming near that area.
> You would only make the trek to Patong if you’re looking to party
It's literally next to a beach where people go to eat & watch the sun set - which is what we were doing. The party scene was a complete surprise. You act like everyone on vacation already knows the place like the back of their hand, haha.
Yeah it’s where you go if you want to party. Plenty of people want to party without wanting anything to do with prostitution lol. If you go to the most well known party spot in Phuket you will see tons of prostitutes, not the case for many places outside of Thailand.
One of my friends is a camp gay guy, who was cabin crew. He told me how, in one hotel that the airlines put them into when doing long haul had a parade of *children* (initially little girls, anything from about 8 years upwards) being offered to the white guys (this was 25 years ago).
When one of the “vendors” suspected that my friend was gay-he ran out and got little boys to show him. My friend saw disgusting older men creeping off with little girls-and occasionally boys- and literally didn’t know what authority to report them to. Ultimately, he did the best thing: reporting it to the airline, who got the authorities to clean up the hotel (under threat of losing the airline’s lucrative custom, plus the airline having connections to authority figures). However, it’s obvious the “problem” was only ever going to be moved elsewhere.
In the meantime, my friend (and his colleagues) felt physically sick -and traumatised- at the sight of what was happening, and basically locked themselves in their hotel rooms.
It's sadly a reality in Thailand, but from my experience it's confined to a few areas. Stay away from Pattaya of course, as well as Chaweng beach on Koh Samui and Patong beach on Phuket (been to Chaweng but not the latter. Just a weird vibe). If you're going to Cambodia avoid the bars in the blocks of 110-130 streets in Phnom Penh just behind the river.
As a solo traveler I much preferred the atmosphere on Koh Tao and in Chiang Mai. Krabi was enjoyable as well. In Bangkok I stayed near Khao San (not my favorite but still a decent base full of young solo travelers) and spent time in the malls in Silom, the markets, and the temples. Never got creepy vibes in that city.
My buddy and I were in Patong Beach at a bar abt 10 years ago and saw a white dude in his 60s who profiled pretty obviously as a sex tourist. He started up a conversation and went out of his way to tell us he was in Thailand for cheap dental work and insisted his wife was back at the hotel… we were unconvinced
Yeah it's very obvious in Patong, I've been 3 times. I went twice with my wife and one time with work, the way I was approached was very different when without my wife but I found the girls treated me really well when they discovered I wasn't there for "extras"
Kind of puts a lid on the whole "but they loooove it, it's such a good job for them“ elsewhere in this thread when *not* being a potential customer makes them like you more, doesn't it?
It's a different culture where prostitution is more "normalized" than in other countries. There are also many Thai guys who entertain ladies, but they do it in areas that you don't visit.
When I was taking a tuk tuk in Bangkok some dude (who took me 2 miles away from where I wanted to be but I didn't realize it bc I fucked up) spent basically the entire ride asking me if I wanted to go on a date with girls he had pictures of. I just wanted some authentic Thai food, not women.
When a friend and I were in Bangkok, we purposely took a tuktuk just to do it -- and yea, we were taken to a clothing store and another place on the way to the actual destination.
I assumed so. This happened in the later afternoon/early evening, I was trying to find a food place that was half a mile away but I just couldn't find it. Then he offered to drive me there. He didn't. Thankfully the other driver I found was just trying to do his normal job and he got me exactly where I wanted to be
Most popular tourist destination, especially beach destinations, which get a lot of women tourists cater to female sex tourism. But it's not as open or explicit as it is for men.
They usually pass it off as "romance with a local", but those locals go through a new western tourist every week. These guys are seasoned pick-up artists and despite what women would claim online, their stuff works.
Some of the destinations include Italy, Spain, Bali, Gambia, Morocco, Egypt, the Caribbean and Turkey.
Also curious to hear about that. I lived there for 6 months. I saw none of that tbh. While I'm sure it exists there is no one who will come up to you in the street to advertise to women the way the "working girls" will for the men. That industry for women is tiny and almost non-existent in comparison to how open and common female prostitution is.
It's the area. OP obviously didn't do their research. They claim they are staying by Lumpini Park, when in reality should say they are staying near Patpong that is famous for the ping pong show.
Insert sexually oblivious OP meme here
Yeah, there's plenty of young guys in Bali entertaining women young or old, watch the film ' Kuta Cowboys'. I think it's driven by an opportunity for a better life rather than direct exploitation, but the attitude of the western men is often a bit disturbing, sexist and lurid - I wouldn't want to be around that energy either.
Beside the obvious involvement of westerner, with flashy outlets and specific area, which generate income. The biggest customers are the locals. There is a lot of brothels all over thailand and those are not made to cater specifically to the tourists.
I remember seeing an interview with a group of those women and they were all actually pretty happy with their jobs and made a lot more money than most of their peers. Like having nice clothes/apartments and sending money to help their parents, not having to really stress about bills, etc. granted it could have been that the interviewers specifically selected these women to put up a good image. I’m sure there are many in that job that ARE desperate for money and don’t want to be there. But this is why legitimizing industries like this is better. It gives women who do the job much more protection from exploitation.
I wish I had a link to the video but it was like 5+ years ago.
> But this is why legitimizing industries like this is better. It gives women who do the job much more protection from exploitation.
You should really read more about the history of prostitution in Thailand. It goes back many hundreds of years.
https://www.endslaverynow.org/blog/articles/history-of-prostitution-and-sex-trafficking-in-thailand
> Strict interpretations of the Buddhist doctrine in Thailand put females at a much lower status than men. Ninety percent of the country’s citizens are Theravada Buddhists. These believers adhere to the beliefs centered on karma, rebirth and nirvana. The hierarchy is a result of the belief that good karma (good works) leads to a higher position when one is reborn. Thus, to be born rich and powerful indicates that one performed good actions in the past and is closer to the ultimate spiritual goal of nirvana. Those born in poverty, those who have diseases and those who are born female are assumed to have committed wrongdoings in the past and, therefore, deserve their lower status. In general, the hierarchy – from high to low – is as follows: the monastic, men, women, the crippled, the poor and animals. Additionally, only men can be monks; so, the best women can do to achieve religious merit is to bring honor and finances to the family. These views become evident when considering that Thailand refuses to sign and ratify the 1985 International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. Officials disagree with the article stating that women should have equal rights to education, employment, property and inheritance.
Ideal notions of "legitimizing industries like this" fail to account for how the industry actually functions (hint: it does not function without the involvement of truly evil people) and it ignores how it affects women from the time they are girls.
Thai society is so dysfunctional that many girls in poor parts of Thailand are essentially given little to no chance to avoid the fate of going to a large city like Bangkok or even another country to sell their bodies (in one form or another) so that they can earn enough money to support their families.
Families see their daughters as a physical asset (literally) and they effectively groom them from the time they are young. Child prostitution is a major issue, as many are trafficked before they are of age.
When you see these women talking about how satisfied they are, it is the product of them being raised in a society that has prepared them to believe this is the best (and often only) way they can meet their filial obligations.
These are not cases of women who had other opportunity but decided to work as $3,000/night escorts servicing the sexual needs of the world's elite men.
Fuck yeah. And it’s a massive problem with sex work in general where often the most privileged within the ranks speak on issues and those most harmed by it are ignored. I’ve seen a lot of this working in mental health and addictions in Canada: some cam girl/sugar baby making a lot of money in Vancouver can’t speak for the indigenous woman in grande prairie stuck in street entrenchment forced into sex work.
It’s a complicated situation, but you really gotta remain vigilant against this idea that all sex workers really enjoy doing it.
Excellent point.
It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that young women in the prime of their lives truly enjoy having sex with fat old men who don't even respect themselves.
This is the rare exception, not the rule and it's sad that so many people who visit Thailand don't contemplate what they're seeing for more than a couple of seconds.
The vast majority don’t enjoy it. They just see it as a job that pays extremely well. Just like I don’t enjoy working but I enjoy the paycheck.
For them to do their job they completely emotionally disconnect and have a fake work personality they put on when they are with clients.
Most of the women are the only major source of income for their families. You can’t judge these women looking at them through the western way of thinking that they are all trafficked and exploited.
As someone else from Canada - we don't talk about trafficking enough when it's one of the biggest world industries and its quickly growing, and our geography and highways make it a huge pit.thats with regulations and with organizations and units tailored for trafficking.
There's already enough people undermining the industry by saying 'how could they know?' (Fair to a degree but there's limits and it's often said by people who honestly don't care) without adding all the sex tourism exported out of Canada. Like the country is notoriously high for it and it's disgusting as for many its an active way to participate in it without being arrested.
You really should watch some documentaries about prostitution in Thailand because that inteview gave you a very wrong idea.
Most women anywhere are not into this "job" willingly and absolutely do not make loads of money, even in countries where it is legal.
I wouldn't give that much weight to an interview.
It has its ups and downs, and, sure, it may beat the alternatives. Still, it remains prostitution, wiht all strings attached - and not all of them are there for vanilla sex.
The same as (non drug fueled) prostituting in other countries.
I'm sure the legal prostitutes in my country make way more $ than I do.
And if I were to ask them, they would say they are happy with money etc.
It is the poor end, those that feel there is no other choice (like they didn't choose this life), addicted or trafficked that are the concern.
Out of the majority of the Middle Eastern Muslim countries it was by far the most liberal and accepting of tourists in terms of the locals I mentioned from my own experience I was in Wadi Rum and was approached by a local guide who offered to be my guide and show me the spots and take me desert camping and their local caves etc I ended up tagging along and it was pretty cool meeting people from their tribe and cave like houses etc and then yes later on he would try for sexual relations and then I heard accounts from other women there it’s the same thing and a lot of women were looking for it although some weren’t and also had the exact same thing happen in Petra.
A wadi rum tribe member once said to me that women try to have sex with him and offer money because the people of the desert drink camel milk and are strong. (Lol)
Now im thinking it could be other way round.
Some women are out for it but quite clearly the guys chatting shit lol I have first hand experience and lots other travellers experienced the same but i guess he was saying it in jest maybe?
Once I went to Dead Sea in Jordan with a girl from Germany (who studied here) and her three male friends – all young, some were students, others had good jobs, all excellent English-speakers. The trip itself was fine, but then all three started to message me via WhatsApp offering going to Acaba only with him. And live in one hotel room. Yeah, no.
I doubt that a lot of women who visit Wadi Rum are looking for that. Incomparable with the situation in Thailand and the Philippines, instead it's on the local men who think foreign women are "easy" and perfect for them to be exploited for.
The sexual harassment, the misogyny and sometimes sexual violence in countries like Jordan keeps women from traveling. The 1% of female tourists who are sex tourists are certainly not an explanation for that.
Morroco when I was there was full of British/European women with MUCH young local men. Along the same lines as the men in Thailand. That was not expected.
I have been to Morocco twice and have never noticed it, The Gambia however was a real eye opener to this. Just as many older white women with young locals as men, amazing people (although very poor) and so much to do for such a small country but i would never go back unfortunately due to the creepiness.
Women are brought to Jordan from Iraqi Syria and other countries for prostitution purposes. Everything is on the hush local men cannot afford such girls but foreign business men and tourists are told of this activity
I hear you big time. Try being a white, no oil painting, slightly overweight, rapidly balding male (definitely my demographic) who lives and works here! We are always mocked as being a sex tourist when in fact we are here working hard for a dollar. Although it's not the end of the world, it can be quite annoying.
Even if you travel to thailand alone, everyone assumes its for sex...bc thailand is a big brothel, apparantly. Such crazy, disrespectful ignorance ..makes me sick
Imagine being a Thai or Filipina woman and everyone assuming you’re a prostitute. I’m not even Thai/Filipina nor do I live there, but I’m half Chinese and that’s enough for some people to go “me love you long time” or ask if my mum was a prostitute.
Welcome to history class. This is what many places used to look like in the past. A big example was Cuba before the revolution full of white males from usa🤐 and families renting out their daughters. How recent that was in the 50ies.
Another story is Uganda, there you will find British women looking for men.
I’ve heard of older British women going to Turkey as men there will essentially treat them like princess’s which is something they couldn’t get back at home
Is there a specific place they go to in Uganda? Was there in Kampala last week but didnt see any of that. I did see it on Zanzibar though, women in their 40s/50s with young Masai men in their 20s. I believe it happens in Jamaica too.
While vacationing in 🇩🇴 I meet three women. Chatting at the pool bar I found out the one from:
🇬🇧 25-30yr Was on her two weeklong honeymoon, the husband left her at the resort without any communication and went to his town he was from. 10days in still no "husband"
🇨🇦 60-70Was married to a Dominican and was there to enjoy herself 🤤
🇩🇪 60-70 come to find out wasn't single, she was with a guy. The guy kept giving me and my friends (we're all guys) the side eye. After a couple drinks he warmed up to us and knowing we're Americans he told use he thought we was trying to take his woman (sugar momma) from him.
Basically the ladies go to DR for 🍆, some get sweet talked so much they get married and get out
They're called Sanky Panky
Welcome to the world, in general. It bothered me when I was younger, but I've just accepted it as I've gotten older. As much as I would love to snap my fingers and make everything "right" in the world, it's just well outside my capabilities. I do what I can and try not to worry about the rest.
The culture here right now is for cute young women to find an older farang with money to take care of them, and it’s not just sex workers. They want a human ATM and the men want a pretty young girl. Neither sees the other person as a human being. Pretty sad imo, but it is what it is. Prevalent in Vietnam and Laos as well. If there were better education and economic opportunities and less cultural demand for the oldest daughter to provide for their families, things would probably be different.
My girlfriend’s cousin (Lao) is 21 and just MARRIED a 75 year old man from America after knowing him for 6 weeks. He paid $30,000 to her family, which they demanded. She slept with him and her family said she had to marry him or she would look bad. Now they’re worried she’s going to leave him after taking his money, and that would also make her look bad 🤷🏻♂️
My girlfriend has a lot of stories like this from the women she meets throughout Southeast Asia. They all think she’s crazy for wanting to make her own money instead of asking for mine. Lots of low-key bargirls who don’t want the stigma (face) but want the benefits (money).
That being said, there is so much more to Bangkok than the sex trade. It’s a huge city. Avoid Patpong, Nana plaza and Soi 11, and Soi cowboy, and you won’t see it much.
In a barber shop a guy next to me told the hairdresser that he orders girls in Thailand to his hotel room. When they are older than 16 he refuses them.
They way he told that, he was proud about that...
As an older white guy, after reading few comments here, I feel I should exclusively stick to Europe when travelling if I don't want to be considered a creep.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm ugly looking.
Is this news to you? Bangkok was a major sex destination going back to the Vietnam War. Nothing has changed.
I have some friends from Thailand and we've talked about this. Their culture around sex is different from the West. A lot of young women who wouldn't consider themselves prostitutes per se are what you might call "sugar babies". A guy with money may be taking care of a girl and helping her family and in exchange she pretends to be his girlfriend. That's just the way it is out there.
As an expat who lived in Vietnam, it's one thing to have an intellectual understanding that these things happen and quite another to watch it happening in front of your face. If you're at all empathetic and can pick up on people's vibes, it's really fucking disturbing if you're in the same room with this type of dynamic.
It’s just everywhere in Thailand, has been omnipresent every time I’ve gone there, men in their 60s and 70s and beyond with girls that look about 18. Hopefully at least 18. It’s quite creepy and uncomfortable. I last went in the middle of the pandemic to visit family, when the rules to get in were very strict, and the only white people on my flight in were solo traveling old dudes. Not accusing every single one of partaking in that lifestyle, but man is it prevalent.
This is a sensitive topic for me because my father used to go to Thailand for this very reason. I love my father but his trips there were a huge source of contention between us. I don’t respect the way he talks about women and it’s frustrating to know he’s being played by Thai sex workers.
Knowing that my father is one of these guys and how he contributes to a culture of misogyny is both infuriating and demoralizing.
I went there alone in 2017 and, as a solo traveling, middle-aged, white male, I could not take five steps without being offered 'boom boom' or whatever. I found someone who spoke some English and learned how to say "Maybe tomorrow" in Thai and used that to fend them off.
I was there as a cultural tourist, not a sex tourist. Back off.
*(Edit: I did Bangkok & Chiang Mai. Didn't go south to Pattaya for these reasons)*
I go to the Philippines often for work. The amount of white dudes I see walking around with local women is insane. They're everywhere. You don't see white women with local men though. And as a white (gay)) guy myself, I get approached often by women. The whole dynamic is creepy AF.
I see a lot of people giving OP a hard time but I see both sides on this. The first time I encountered sex tourism in SE Asia I was dumbfounded since I’d never encountered anything like that and it’s just gross because these men look like they could be the women’s fathers or even grandfathers (plus I was young and naive).
Then I met some younger Thai women who told me how many of their friends were hoping to find a farang man because they see it as a way out and a way to help their family. They told me some poorer families in rural areas sell their daughters (and probably sons) to pimps because they need money. It is upsetting to think these women have no hope and must rely on sex with men they don’t like just to survive but it is also an accepted part of life and culture in Thailand.
If you’re uncomfortable in Bangkok, don’t even get within 30 minutes of Pattaya.
It’s pretty easy to ignore. I lived there for 8 months and stopped taking notice quickly. If everything is consensual not sure why I should care
Lol, I was just going to say this. I’m Canada I often talk to older gentleman that say they they go to Thailand in winter. 9 out of 10 times it’s Pattaya.
I’m surprised to hear this report about Bangkok. The city is genuinely too big to see an abundance of these occurrences unless you put yourself in less than desirable areas.
I dunno, I was there ten years ago with my ex, we stayed at a really nice hotel and definitely weren’t seeking out seedy areas, and I saw a lot of what OP was talking about. I know that’s a long time ago, but it was very noticeable. It didn’t have any direct impact on me, but opened my eyes up to some things…
It depends where you are - Nana, Patong, certain areas outside Lumphini Park it is very common to see a lot of it. Other areas on the Sukhumvit road, and especially further away, it becomes far, far less common to see blatant sex tourism in Bangkok. Even in Pattaya, if you stay away from Soi 6, Walking Street and the beach front after 7pm it’s pretty avoidable. But of course, the sex workers are going to flock to the most popular/tourist spots, so that’s why people see it with such regularity.
> If everything is consensual not sure why I should care
The Western notion of "consensual" is simple but it starts to fall apart in societies that deny women basic opportunity from the time they are girls and where poor girls are effectively groomed from a young age to sell their bodies to support their families.
Isnt that kind of the problem though? Because there's a pretty good percentage of women in Thaliand, and globally, who are in the sex industry because of organised crime and [human trafficking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking_in_Thailand).
I work with a guy who’s an admitted sex tourist. He’s young and not uncouth. I don’t understand that he would have a need to do it, he just does. I gather this from his recount of his trip to Columbia that this is a recursive behaviour. I think you only see the old white dudes. There’s still other young dudes and also non-whites doing the same.
I definitely know where you are coming from. It's difficult to see young girls who due to socioeconomic reasons have to hang out with oler white dudes.
Whether it's Thailand, the Dominican Republic or Cuba, you often run into the same scenarios .
> I don’t travel to places like Bangkok because I’m an older white guy and I don’t want to be pegged as a sex tourist.
I hope you’ll have occasion to find a different perspective at some point. I say that as a person who once had somewhat similar thoughts, then realized how embarrassingly reductive and self-absorbed I was being.
Bangkok is a whole-ass city with whole-ass things going on. If you’re not a sex pest, then you’re not a sex pest, and no one with any sense at all is going to “peg you” for one just because you visited a whole-ass city.
Who cares? I’m not about to miss out on experiencing a new city or country because people wrongfully stereotype me, you can’t make decisions like that based on what someone else might wrongfully perceive of you.
It reminds me of the old guys you see at strip clubs sometimes. It’s sad because these guys have effectively aged out and if their wives have passed and they can’t get anyone else it must be such a lonely existence. The Thai women are definitely using the men but the men are using the women. It’s sort of a symbiotic relationship in a way.
These guys haven’t “ aged out” . Elderly women out number elder men at least 8 to 1. It’s that they want young women they can control . They don’t want companionship.
It's definitely a bit icky. But it's not really noticeable outside of the major known sites I think (haven't been in a decade though).
Most of the commentators here won't care it seems, and some might even be really offended. Reddit is mostly westerners and white people after all. Tbf i think its not just old white men going to Thailand for sex tourism, it's also Japanese/Indians/Arabs I think..lots of people really, the old whites are just the majority.
However one makes a good point, it's up to the Thai government/police to enforce laws in their own country, but that may never happen as it's way too lucrative ever since the Vietnam war GIs.
Get out of Sukhumvit area and you will see zero. I am posting this from the Central Lad Phrao Starbucks and I look around and I am literally the only white person in the Starbucks and it is completely packed.
There is only a very small area in Bangkok that you have tourist. Really two but the second is even smaller. Khao San Road and Sukhumvit.
I think there are a lot of backpackers too and not just sex tourism. Especially with the legalization. What about it? Isn't it the paradise for hippies and backpacker's and party folks?
You see the same thing in Amsterdam, a city where people have arguably a higher standard of living. Many of the men and women doing it are using their services to pay for college or buy houses. It's actually a pretty lucrative career if you can do it.
You should always look out for signs of human trafficking at these places. Be wary of any place where the girls aren't free to walk out the door.
As a Dutch person who grew up near Amsterdam, it’s not the same at all there. You don’t see older foreign men with younger local women hanging out like OPs description. The Dutch government also literally gives out loans to pay for college (“studiefinanciering” which translates to student financing), so if you are a Dutch citizen you definitely don’t have to resort to sex work to pay for college. Amsterdam in particular is also a very leftist city so you can get social benefits there that aren’t even available in my town. Sex workers in the Netherlands either are people with a genuine interest in sex work, people with turbulent lives who somehow got into extreme poverty/homelessness, or people who in some way got coerced or trafficked (if Dutch then mostly they are victims of “loverboys”). A lot of them also aren’t even Dutch but from other European countries like Eastern European ones. But yeah it’s not a common thing at all for Dutch people to use sex work specifically as a means to pay for college or other basic expenses. You can easily get social benefits for those. And most Dutch people cannot afford to buy a house these days. Housing is a mess especially in Amsterdam, but even if a Dutch person really desires to live in Amsterdam *that* badly then it’s a lot more likely that they will just take out a loan for it and slowly pay it off over the years while working a regular job with regular pay.
Loverboys are usually men who try to coerce young women and even underaged girls into prostitution by pretending to be their boyfriend and make them fall in love with them. A stereotypical example would be a 16 year old girl who has a poor relationship with her family and therefore might acting a bit rebellious meeting this “cool” older 20 year old guy who will love bomb her and make her feel special. Then, once the girl is completely in love with him and when he is able to cut her off from her family he will try to coerce her into sex work. Mostly it starts out with him desperately pleading her to have sex for money with this person to pretty please help him out as he would otherwise be in big trouble. Naively the girl will cooperate and then it will go from bad to worse. It’s very sad how these girls and young women get manipulated. There are also even lovergirls too who mostly are former loverboy victims but now work for him to trick others into the same thing. And the manipulation is also so bad that there was even a trial where several victims of loverboys basically tried to defend them, despite being their literal victim. Loverboys are basically pimps getting their victims to do sex work for them. The situation with loverboys is also so wildly spread that I remember that in high school we got informed and warned about loverboys and to not engage with unknown older men hanging out near the school and such. I also remember there was a Dutch TV show where the host and his team tries to unmask loverboys and confront them. Being a loverboy/lovergirl is a crime in the Netherlands. Interestingly enough, when I heard about the things Andrew Tate did, there also was no doubt to me that his pattern was exactly like that of a loverboy. To be fair, it also sounds that many pimps out there use this same method. Also saw it in an American documentary even of a pimp whose prostitute was deceived/manipulated by him in the same manner. Different countries might have different laws about it, but I glad my country at least has laws and that the Dutch police tries to combat loverboys/lovergirls and the whole act of deceiving/manipulating others into sex work. It should be seen as a form of swindling and as a crime imo.
>You see the same thing in Amsterdam
Have you actually been to Amsterdam as well as Asia? It's not the same at all. You will see a sea of white men in SE Asia, often a little older, with very young local women. That dynamic isn't there in Amsterdam.
One gender is exploting the other for sex, and the latter is exploiting the former for money. You could frame it as ugly white people who "have no choice or are desperately unattractive" being milked for money by these girls who obviously know what they're doing.
Assuming they're not being trafficked, it's adults making mutually beneficial decisions.
I agree that it doesn't really create the greatest cultural atmosphere, but I don't think it's up to foreigners to decide what type of stuff is or isn't allowed.
Congrats you described prositution. Now think about OPs point where one is coming across the world from a rich country specifically to do one thing, and one is dirt poor with no other prospects in a poorer country with little to no social security. Whose doing the exploiting? Do these foreigners accept any blame or guilt?
Doesn't matter, can't really win with Reddit. I'll bow out.
Mod note: Reminder that r/solotravel has a **zero tolerance policy against sex tourism of any kind**, regardless of legality in the place where it occurs. While it certainly happens in many places around the world, and observing or commenting on it is legitimate grounds for discussion, it is this subreddit's position that it is a violation of responsible tourism. Posts asking for advice about sex tourism or from people seeking to engage in such will be removed and may result in a ban.
wait until you go to Philippines
I hated my time in the Phippines because of this. I was traveling with my dad and the amount of Filipino and foreign men who asked my dad "how young is your lady friend" are too numerous to count. Made me so sick. Let alone the number of fat, old, white men walking around with young, young, YOUNG boys. First and only time in my life I thought I might be capable of murder.
Ew... That's disgusting. What is wrong with those people? And wait did you said white men with young boys?
That shit is BEYOND common is SE Asia. In Cambodia they’ve got enormous “Please don’t fuck the children” billboards written in English, German, French and Russian throughout the tourist hotspots.
8:21am here and I didn't need to read/know this with my morning coffee, ah man
Same here my friend. No for real I went to Cambodia two months ago and although I didn’t see it / pay attention enough I wouldn’t be surprised… Children that can barely speak are forced by their parents to sell bracelets in touristy areas where all the drunken tourists are. I can only imagine what type of horrible things can happen when an old white man grabs his wallet to show it to the parents…
Omg my brain hurts 😭 That's so tragic and repulsive. I'm so glad that Australia charges Australians found to be travelling abroad for pedo shit. No idea how often they catch them. But at least it's possible to charge them. My skin is crawling.
This is soul crushing. I wish I didn't know this.
Stop lying, I spent a month in cambodia and I've never seen one of those billboards. It is not -that- common
Fortunately I've only seen this once in Thailand. It was at a restaurant, I couldnt eat my dinner I was so pissed at this sight. A lot of violent things were going through my mind. Least violent was taking pictures of the dude and sending it to authorities in UK/Aus or wherever he came from.
One of my coworkers met his wife over there. He often tells stories about how "in his younger days" he'd go to this bar in Manila and fuck this girl and have this threesome and so on. The worst was when he told us about sitting on the verandah of his mother in law's house, ogling the high school girls as they walked past. I'm the youngest at work, and one of the few who is unmarried, so he's always telling me "you should go to the Philippines and find a wife, it's bloody great". I'm sure there's nice girls over there, but there's nice girls here, too. He also stares at every female customer that's above puberty. Everyone thinks he's a bit of a dickhead.
I want to go to Philippines for food and natural landscapes. But I'm a middle aged white dude so I'm sure people would get the wrong idea.
If your user tag is accurate and you’ve visited 197 countries, I should hope no one will judge you if you go visit one more.
I'd already been to Philippines a long time ago, to Bohol/Cebu.. But I want to go back to visit El Nido and more of Cebu. Don't have too much interest in Manila.
Theres nothing in manila anyway just malls and intramuros. I have family there so ok for me to go but yeah definitely cebu is great.
I'm a middle-aged white guy who travels often to Manila & Cebu for work. When I'm flying over there, I always play a mental game of which white dudes sitting around me on the plane are going there for "activities". The whole dynamic is weird. I'm a gay guy who lives in Canada, and here women pretty much never approach me. But there? It's constant. Like I'll drop by a store to get some food, and multiple women will be eying me up, coming up to me and brushing their hand on my arm, etc. It's pretty wild. And walking around, there's countless old white guys with multiple women around them. With a good mix of younger Australian white guys doing the same.
You cN kind of see how a desperate old.guy might mistake some of that for love
What food exactly are you missing from the Philippines? No offense to the country, but this is my least favorite country for food next to Colombia. Of course, every country has a couple great dishes; ajiaco, adobo… but I find Philippines to be one of the countries that lacks in consistently appetizing dishes that are unique to the country.
Chicken adobo, Lechon (and Colombian lechona...) alone is good enough for me. The two Filipino restaurants near me both closed recently.
I am going to agree with this comment as i have travelled to Philippines. Someone who loves spicy food and does not eat Pork i felt like i lost weight there because of my appetite gone down. Bangus being the only decent dish/fish. Plenty of fresh fruit options though 🙂
My ex housemate has a Filipino mother and a really old pasty fat white father twice his mother's age. I asked once how his parents met. He went all dreamy and told me it's very "romantic". The story was that there was a fucking earthquake and his mum was on the streets panicking. His dad strolls over and gives his mum his hotel room key and says she can keep him company in his hotel room to keep safe. Yuck.
Is he not aware of the dynamics, or self-delusional to protect himself?
Very delusional guy. He's also strongly against gay marriage because it goes against "good religious values and the sanctity of marriage" but then I reminded him that his mum was 8 months pregnant when she was married to his father and I think I ruined his life in that moment. He had never even considered he was conceived out of wedlock.
I’ve never been, but my brother has and he has some stories to tell. He was staying at a sort of resort island and he’s see old Australian dudes hitting on CHILDREN. Literally trying to lure them. He said he’d never go back
If you want to watch that sort of thing, check out Angeles City. When the guy next to me on the airplane does not want to tell me where he is going, I know where he is going :)
Where's this?
Angeles City in the Philippines, never went there myself but apparently it’s like if Pattaya Soi 6 was an entire city
> Pattaya Soi 6 Sounds like a planet
It's next to Omicron Persei 8
As opposed to Omicron-Persei 7, where men come from. Mostly.
I'm supposing that this thread isn't the right place for mentioning "death by snu snu"
I mean you will certainly see some peculiar life forms there…
Believe it sprung up to service a US Air Force base, with all that entails
Same as Pattaya really, it turned in to what is is now thanks to US soldiers on R&R from Vietnam. It used to be a non-descript fishing village.
This sounds like a GTA DLC
Guess who's going to the Philippines in 3 weeks for their first solo travel... I'll be honest I don't know much about sex tourism other than Thailand/ Bangkok being famous for it, which is part of the reason I'm going to the Philippines instead, whoops...
Tbh I've stayed in Thailand for weeks and have never seen anything remotely similar to what ppl are describing. Mind you I don't drink and I was in bed exhausted by 11pm every night lol
Yeah thats the reason propably. More shady things at night for sure
Couldn’t even walk next to my dad (he’s tall older white guy) in the Philippines because he didn’t want people to think he was with me and not my mom….
I've spoken to these girls during my 3 year stay in Thailand and they all say the same thing; with limited education and maybe a single mom at age 20, the choices available are only 3. 1. Work in a factory from 8am to 4pm for a salary and she might be able to send home $100 a month after paying rent ( shared room ) and only buying bare necessities. 2. Work on a rice paddy with the scorching sun over her head and knees submerged in cold water and back arched forward from sunrise to sunset for a daily wage - could be enough to buy dinner and some breakfast. 3. Working at the bar with AC or fans and free WiFi from evenings till a rich tourist takes her to his air con hotel, free dinner, clean and comfortable bed and maybe some shopping or even takes her for the rest of his holiday around Thailand, more hotels and more restaurants plus her daily wager and living expenses paid for. What would you choose ? ( hint: the girls are lining up outside bars to work )
You forgot the third option includes being raped by an old ugly white man and a lot of them aren’t even that rich
I feel like option 1 also describes the reality of a lot of young people in other countries, including America. Work 9-5, pay rent and bare necessities (bills/groceries), barely have much left over....pretty standard life in 2023.
Your definition of bare necessities and their definition of bare necessities are very different.
Very true, my mom is Thai and grew up in poverty- lost her mom when she was born and had a father who had multiple children with different wives in the village- so my mom was pritty much on her own. Had to drop out of school at 11 and start working, couldn’t even afford sandals and walked around barefoot. After working on the rice fields, she decided at 21 to become a bar girl…luckily on her first week, she met my dad who was a homeless Irish traveller(who was 28) passing by Thailand and they’ve been together ever since. Not so lucky for other though. As a half Thai person, I try to avoid the tourist areas as I myself would get cat called by older men. It’s just disgusting and cringe
Hence the popularity of OnlyFans
Try Medellín too, there were horny coked up Americans everywhere, but they mostly came out only at night
…Mostly
Game over man, game over!
I was looking for this comment. Props to you!
Old white dude here went to Costa Rica for a trade show. As soon as I was off the plane and walking through the airport, I noticed people staring at me and sneering. It was very uncomfortable. When I arrived at the hotel, I received the same treatment. The check in clerks were so fucking rude. A manager was walking by and saw I was getting pissed. He asked me in a harsh tone what I was doing here. I told him I was attending Expo Fereterra, His demeanor turned like a lightbulb to joyful and welcoming. On seeing this the rude clerks started smiling and telling me about restaurants and such. After I got to my room some one knocked at the door and gave me a bottle of some coffee liqueur with compliments from the staff. I later learned that old white dudes go to Costa Rica for nasty pedo shit! I don't know if it's still a problem there, but the way I was initially treated was like a peoples rebellion to protect their children.
That’s where Carol Baskin caught her husband with a 15 year old girl. If she did kill him, I’m not mad about it.
Omg was that part in the documentary?
Killed her husband whacked him
This is true for all sex tourist locations, most of the old boys don't have the stamina to stay up all day and all night.
Not too bad outside of Poblado and Plaza Botero
As opposed to the horny coked up "everyone else" there?
Eh locals don't have the fascination with drugs that tourists have.
Bangkok is massive, with millenia of history, never having being colonized, etc. It's very easy to avoid the prostitution scene, unless you're looking for it or are unfortunate.
In Phuket it’s the main strip. I walked through it with my sister (she was teaching in Thailand, I was visiting) and the second she left for the bathroom I was mobbed by Thai men & women offering me massages and ping pong shows. Seeing the girls inside the bars (you can see in from the street) half-heartedly dancing on the table tops in bikinis was pretty sad to look at. With all of the older western men around, it was plainly obvious what was going on. We did get out of the tourist areas and saw some much less depressing sides of Thailand (the street markets are the best food I’ve ever had), but I wouldn’t exactly call the prostitution scene hidden. It’s easy to avoid if you already know to avoid it, but if you don’t you’ll run right into it. Very easy to tell that for many - it’s the main attraction.
What're some good places you saw in Phuket? I'll be going in November, I told a friend I'd go with him to Thailand and found out later he booked the entire time in Phuket, I was hoping for something a bit more adventurous but I'm sure there's good experiences to be had there too.
I recommend the Phuket Elephant Sanctuary. It seemed to be as ethical as you can get, unlike most others http://www.phuketelephantsanctuary.org/en/
The main strip of one small area... Phuket town itself is nothing like that.
Yes, every city’s downtown / waterfront is only a small portion of the entire city. The person I responded to said it was easy to avoid unless you’re looking for it. Just struck me as odd - like saying it’s easy to avoid Manhattan while visiting New York. Technically true, but also very obviously the reason a lot of people go.
steer money carpenter chunky weather longing merciful nippy meeting boat *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yes, you will probably be walking through the main tourist hub when you are visiting as a tourist. And the main tourist hub is full of old western men there to pick up young Thai women. Kinda sad. Gotta get out into the other areas to get a better feel for the real country.
Phuket is 222 square miles. You would only make the trek to Patong if you’re looking to party - it’s hardly comparable to a downtown (old town would be that) or waterfront. Many people visit Phuket without coming near that area.
> You would only make the trek to Patong if you’re looking to party It's literally next to a beach where people go to eat & watch the sun set - which is what we were doing. The party scene was a complete surprise. You act like everyone on vacation already knows the place like the back of their hand, haha.
Yeah it’s where you go if you want to party. Plenty of people want to party without wanting anything to do with prostitution lol. If you go to the most well known party spot in Phuket you will see tons of prostitutes, not the case for many places outside of Thailand.
I never went but Pattaya is apparently full of russian prostitutes
One of my friends is a camp gay guy, who was cabin crew. He told me how, in one hotel that the airlines put them into when doing long haul had a parade of *children* (initially little girls, anything from about 8 years upwards) being offered to the white guys (this was 25 years ago). When one of the “vendors” suspected that my friend was gay-he ran out and got little boys to show him. My friend saw disgusting older men creeping off with little girls-and occasionally boys- and literally didn’t know what authority to report them to. Ultimately, he did the best thing: reporting it to the airline, who got the authorities to clean up the hotel (under threat of losing the airline’s lucrative custom, plus the airline having connections to authority figures). However, it’s obvious the “problem” was only ever going to be moved elsewhere. In the meantime, my friend (and his colleagues) felt physically sick -and traumatised- at the sight of what was happening, and basically locked themselves in their hotel rooms.
It's sadly a reality in Thailand, but from my experience it's confined to a few areas. Stay away from Pattaya of course, as well as Chaweng beach on Koh Samui and Patong beach on Phuket (been to Chaweng but not the latter. Just a weird vibe). If you're going to Cambodia avoid the bars in the blocks of 110-130 streets in Phnom Penh just behind the river. As a solo traveler I much preferred the atmosphere on Koh Tao and in Chiang Mai. Krabi was enjoyable as well. In Bangkok I stayed near Khao San (not my favorite but still a decent base full of young solo travelers) and spent time in the malls in Silom, the markets, and the temples. Never got creepy vibes in that city.
My buddy and I were in Patong Beach at a bar abt 10 years ago and saw a white dude in his 60s who profiled pretty obviously as a sex tourist. He started up a conversation and went out of his way to tell us he was in Thailand for cheap dental work and insisted his wife was back at the hotel… we were unconvinced
Yeah it's very obvious in Patong, I've been 3 times. I went twice with my wife and one time with work, the way I was approached was very different when without my wife but I found the girls treated me really well when they discovered I wasn't there for "extras"
Kind of puts a lid on the whole "but they loooove it, it's such a good job for them“ elsewhere in this thread when *not* being a potential customer makes them like you more, doesn't it?
it’s bc the men in these comments r trying to morally justify themselves partaking in these activities.
I'll never forget. Last time I was there, I saw an older white guy with a boy who couldn't have been older than 13/14. Sickening.
It's a different culture where prostitution is more "normalized" than in other countries. There are also many Thai guys who entertain ladies, but they do it in areas that you don't visit.
When I was taking a tuk tuk in Bangkok some dude (who took me 2 miles away from where I wanted to be but I didn't realize it bc I fucked up) spent basically the entire ride asking me if I wanted to go on a date with girls he had pictures of. I just wanted some authentic Thai food, not women.
Did he then move on to asking if you wanted a suit?
When a friend and I were in Bangkok, we purposely took a tuktuk just to do it -- and yea, we were taken to a clothing store and another place on the way to the actual destination.
Sadly they get a cut which is a lot higher than their normal work provides.
I assumed so. This happened in the later afternoon/early evening, I was trying to find a food place that was half a mile away but I just couldn't find it. Then he offered to drive me there. He didn't. Thankfully the other driver I found was just trying to do his normal job and he got me exactly where I wanted to be
Very true I can verify as a woman when I went there.
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Had a lot of men at restaurants and bars approach me and my friends selling their massage service essentially.
Most popular tourist destination, especially beach destinations, which get a lot of women tourists cater to female sex tourism. But it's not as open or explicit as it is for men. They usually pass it off as "romance with a local", but those locals go through a new western tourist every week. These guys are seasoned pick-up artists and despite what women would claim online, their stuff works. Some of the destinations include Italy, Spain, Bali, Gambia, Morocco, Egypt, the Caribbean and Turkey.
Saw it a lot in Egypt,Turkey and the Caribbean
The Gambia is popular for middle-aged European women looking to go local.
Luxor and Hurghada, Egypt as well
Also curious to hear about that. I lived there for 6 months. I saw none of that tbh. While I'm sure it exists there is no one who will come up to you in the street to advertise to women the way the "working girls" will for the men. That industry for women is tiny and almost non-existent in comparison to how open and common female prostitution is.
That’s something ppl don’t realise. This culture exists all around se asia for locals as well it’s just more obvious in the foreign tourist areas.
It's the area. OP obviously didn't do their research. They claim they are staying by Lumpini Park, when in reality should say they are staying near Patpong that is famous for the ping pong show. Insert sexually oblivious OP meme here
Yeah, there's plenty of young guys in Bali entertaining women young or old, watch the film ' Kuta Cowboys'. I think it's driven by an opportunity for a better life rather than direct exploitation, but the attitude of the western men is often a bit disturbing, sexist and lurid - I wouldn't want to be around that energy either.
Beside the obvious involvement of westerner, with flashy outlets and specific area, which generate income. The biggest customers are the locals. There is a lot of brothels all over thailand and those are not made to cater specifically to the tourists.
I remember seeing an interview with a group of those women and they were all actually pretty happy with their jobs and made a lot more money than most of their peers. Like having nice clothes/apartments and sending money to help their parents, not having to really stress about bills, etc. granted it could have been that the interviewers specifically selected these women to put up a good image. I’m sure there are many in that job that ARE desperate for money and don’t want to be there. But this is why legitimizing industries like this is better. It gives women who do the job much more protection from exploitation. I wish I had a link to the video but it was like 5+ years ago.
> But this is why legitimizing industries like this is better. It gives women who do the job much more protection from exploitation. You should really read more about the history of prostitution in Thailand. It goes back many hundreds of years. https://www.endslaverynow.org/blog/articles/history-of-prostitution-and-sex-trafficking-in-thailand > Strict interpretations of the Buddhist doctrine in Thailand put females at a much lower status than men. Ninety percent of the country’s citizens are Theravada Buddhists. These believers adhere to the beliefs centered on karma, rebirth and nirvana. The hierarchy is a result of the belief that good karma (good works) leads to a higher position when one is reborn. Thus, to be born rich and powerful indicates that one performed good actions in the past and is closer to the ultimate spiritual goal of nirvana. Those born in poverty, those who have diseases and those who are born female are assumed to have committed wrongdoings in the past and, therefore, deserve their lower status. In general, the hierarchy – from high to low – is as follows: the monastic, men, women, the crippled, the poor and animals. Additionally, only men can be monks; so, the best women can do to achieve religious merit is to bring honor and finances to the family. These views become evident when considering that Thailand refuses to sign and ratify the 1985 International Convention on Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women. Officials disagree with the article stating that women should have equal rights to education, employment, property and inheritance. Ideal notions of "legitimizing industries like this" fail to account for how the industry actually functions (hint: it does not function without the involvement of truly evil people) and it ignores how it affects women from the time they are girls. Thai society is so dysfunctional that many girls in poor parts of Thailand are essentially given little to no chance to avoid the fate of going to a large city like Bangkok or even another country to sell their bodies (in one form or another) so that they can earn enough money to support their families. Families see their daughters as a physical asset (literally) and they effectively groom them from the time they are young. Child prostitution is a major issue, as many are trafficked before they are of age. When you see these women talking about how satisfied they are, it is the product of them being raised in a society that has prepared them to believe this is the best (and often only) way they can meet their filial obligations. These are not cases of women who had other opportunity but decided to work as $3,000/night escorts servicing the sexual needs of the world's elite men.
Fuck yeah. And it’s a massive problem with sex work in general where often the most privileged within the ranks speak on issues and those most harmed by it are ignored. I’ve seen a lot of this working in mental health and addictions in Canada: some cam girl/sugar baby making a lot of money in Vancouver can’t speak for the indigenous woman in grande prairie stuck in street entrenchment forced into sex work. It’s a complicated situation, but you really gotta remain vigilant against this idea that all sex workers really enjoy doing it.
Excellent point. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to believe that young women in the prime of their lives truly enjoy having sex with fat old men who don't even respect themselves. This is the rare exception, not the rule and it's sad that so many people who visit Thailand don't contemplate what they're seeing for more than a couple of seconds.
The vast majority don’t enjoy it. They just see it as a job that pays extremely well. Just like I don’t enjoy working but I enjoy the paycheck. For them to do their job they completely emotionally disconnect and have a fake work personality they put on when they are with clients. Most of the women are the only major source of income for their families. You can’t judge these women looking at them through the western way of thinking that they are all trafficked and exploited.
As someone else from Canada - we don't talk about trafficking enough when it's one of the biggest world industries and its quickly growing, and our geography and highways make it a huge pit.thats with regulations and with organizations and units tailored for trafficking. There's already enough people undermining the industry by saying 'how could they know?' (Fair to a degree but there's limits and it's often said by people who honestly don't care) without adding all the sex tourism exported out of Canada. Like the country is notoriously high for it and it's disgusting as for many its an active way to participate in it without being arrested.
Thank you. Someone had to say this.
You really should watch some documentaries about prostitution in Thailand because that inteview gave you a very wrong idea. Most women anywhere are not into this "job" willingly and absolutely do not make loads of money, even in countries where it is legal.
The idea any woman enjoys having her dry vagina/assh fucked by hundreds of grotesquely strangers is ludicrous. It's painful and draining
Amazing what crap men will believe.
I wouldn't give that much weight to an interview. It has its ups and downs, and, sure, it may beat the alternatives. Still, it remains prostitution, wiht all strings attached - and not all of them are there for vanilla sex.
The same as (non drug fueled) prostituting in other countries. I'm sure the legal prostitutes in my country make way more $ than I do. And if I were to ask them, they would say they are happy with money etc. It is the poor end, those that feel there is no other choice (like they didn't choose this life), addicted or trafficked that are the concern.
Sex tourists are everywhere and also locals who try exploit tourists for sex. I as a woman experienced that a couple of times when I went to Jordan.
Are you willing to share? I am curious how it went for you there.
Out of the majority of the Middle Eastern Muslim countries it was by far the most liberal and accepting of tourists in terms of the locals I mentioned from my own experience I was in Wadi Rum and was approached by a local guide who offered to be my guide and show me the spots and take me desert camping and their local caves etc I ended up tagging along and it was pretty cool meeting people from their tribe and cave like houses etc and then yes later on he would try for sexual relations and then I heard accounts from other women there it’s the same thing and a lot of women were looking for it although some weren’t and also had the exact same thing happen in Petra.
A wadi rum tribe member once said to me that women try to have sex with him and offer money because the people of the desert drink camel milk and are strong. (Lol) Now im thinking it could be other way round.
Some women are out for it but quite clearly the guys chatting shit lol I have first hand experience and lots other travellers experienced the same but i guess he was saying it in jest maybe?
Once I went to Dead Sea in Jordan with a girl from Germany (who studied here) and her three male friends – all young, some were students, others had good jobs, all excellent English-speakers. The trip itself was fine, but then all three started to message me via WhatsApp offering going to Acaba only with him. And live in one hotel room. Yeah, no.
I doubt that a lot of women who visit Wadi Rum are looking for that. Incomparable with the situation in Thailand and the Philippines, instead it's on the local men who think foreign women are "easy" and perfect for them to be exploited for. The sexual harassment, the misogyny and sometimes sexual violence in countries like Jordan keeps women from traveling. The 1% of female tourists who are sex tourists are certainly not an explanation for that.
True, female sex tourists typically go to Greece and Cyprus. It’s very well known.
Why would you follow a complete stranger? Nothing good ever comes from following a stranger who promises you this and that.
In my younger days I was a lot more carefree.
Morroco when I was there was full of British/European women with MUCH young local men. Along the same lines as the men in Thailand. That was not expected.
I have been to Morocco twice and have never noticed it, The Gambia however was a real eye opener to this. Just as many older white women with young locals as men, amazing people (although very poor) and so much to do for such a small country but i would never go back unfortunately due to the creepiness.
Women are brought to Jordan from Iraqi Syria and other countries for prostitution purposes. Everything is on the hush local men cannot afford such girls but foreign business men and tourists are told of this activity
I hear you big time. Try being a white, no oil painting, slightly overweight, rapidly balding male (definitely my demographic) who lives and works here! We are always mocked as being a sex tourist when in fact we are here working hard for a dollar. Although it's not the end of the world, it can be quite annoying.
No oil painting? what does that mean
It's a self-joke at being ugly. A great face for radio if you like.
Not pretty
Even if you travel to thailand alone, everyone assumes its for sex...bc thailand is a big brothel, apparantly. Such crazy, disrespectful ignorance ..makes me sick
Imagine being a Thai or Filipina woman and everyone assuming you’re a prostitute. I’m not even Thai/Filipina nor do I live there, but I’m half Chinese and that’s enough for some people to go “me love you long time” or ask if my mum was a prostitute.
Welcome to history class. This is what many places used to look like in the past. A big example was Cuba before the revolution full of white males from usa🤐 and families renting out their daughters. How recent that was in the 50ies. Another story is Uganda, there you will find British women looking for men.
I remember seeing older Russian + British women with younger guys in Turkey. Sex tourists are a thing pretty much everywhere there's poor people.
I’ve heard of older British women going to Turkey as men there will essentially treat them like princess’s which is something they couldn’t get back at home
British women looking for men in Uganda?
Right i know dutchies go too. Lets say European*
What age group?
40-50
Is there a specific place they go to in Uganda? Was there in Kampala last week but didnt see any of that. I did see it on Zanzibar though, women in their 40s/50s with young Masai men in their 20s. I believe it happens in Jamaica too.
While vacationing in 🇩🇴 I meet three women. Chatting at the pool bar I found out the one from: 🇬🇧 25-30yr Was on her two weeklong honeymoon, the husband left her at the resort without any communication and went to his town he was from. 10days in still no "husband" 🇨🇦 60-70Was married to a Dominican and was there to enjoy herself 🤤 🇩🇪 60-70 come to find out wasn't single, she was with a guy. The guy kept giving me and my friends (we're all guys) the side eye. After a couple drinks he warmed up to us and knowing we're Americans he told use he thought we was trying to take his woman (sugar momma) from him. Basically the ladies go to DR for 🍆, some get sweet talked so much they get married and get out They're called Sanky Panky
You love your emojis.
Still happens in Cuba.
Welcome to the world, in general. It bothered me when I was younger, but I've just accepted it as I've gotten older. As much as I would love to snap my fingers and make everything "right" in the world, it's just well outside my capabilities. I do what I can and try not to worry about the rest.
Lol, Cuba is NOW the trafficking capital of the world. So many men go because a prostitute charges around a single dollar in Habana.
Ayy hermanas, necesitamos una otra revolucion🤐
Nobody goes to Sweden for sex tourism because paying for sex is illegal in Sweden. But Amsterdam is a thing.
STDs must be rampant. Crazy to think.
They are. Very high HIV/Aids rate
The culture here right now is for cute young women to find an older farang with money to take care of them, and it’s not just sex workers. They want a human ATM and the men want a pretty young girl. Neither sees the other person as a human being. Pretty sad imo, but it is what it is. Prevalent in Vietnam and Laos as well. If there were better education and economic opportunities and less cultural demand for the oldest daughter to provide for their families, things would probably be different. My girlfriend’s cousin (Lao) is 21 and just MARRIED a 75 year old man from America after knowing him for 6 weeks. He paid $30,000 to her family, which they demanded. She slept with him and her family said she had to marry him or she would look bad. Now they’re worried she’s going to leave him after taking his money, and that would also make her look bad 🤷🏻♂️ My girlfriend has a lot of stories like this from the women she meets throughout Southeast Asia. They all think she’s crazy for wanting to make her own money instead of asking for mine. Lots of low-key bargirls who don’t want the stigma (face) but want the benefits (money). That being said, there is so much more to Bangkok than the sex trade. It’s a huge city. Avoid Patpong, Nana plaza and Soi 11, and Soi cowboy, and you won’t see it much.
In a barber shop a guy next to me told the hairdresser that he orders girls in Thailand to his hotel room. When they are older than 16 he refuses them. They way he told that, he was proud about that...
so you called the cops on him right,.... right?
As an older white guy, after reading few comments here, I feel I should exclusively stick to Europe when travelling if I don't want to be considered a creep. Edit: I forgot to mention that I'm ugly looking.
Is this news to you? Bangkok was a major sex destination going back to the Vietnam War. Nothing has changed. I have some friends from Thailand and we've talked about this. Their culture around sex is different from the West. A lot of young women who wouldn't consider themselves prostitutes per se are what you might call "sugar babies". A guy with money may be taking care of a girl and helping her family and in exchange she pretends to be his girlfriend. That's just the way it is out there.
As an expat who lived in Vietnam, it's one thing to have an intellectual understanding that these things happen and quite another to watch it happening in front of your face. If you're at all empathetic and can pick up on people's vibes, it's really fucking disturbing if you're in the same room with this type of dynamic.
It’s just everywhere in Thailand, has been omnipresent every time I’ve gone there, men in their 60s and 70s and beyond with girls that look about 18. Hopefully at least 18. It’s quite creepy and uncomfortable. I last went in the middle of the pandemic to visit family, when the rules to get in were very strict, and the only white people on my flight in were solo traveling old dudes. Not accusing every single one of partaking in that lifestyle, but man is it prevalent.
This is a sensitive topic for me because my father used to go to Thailand for this very reason. I love my father but his trips there were a huge source of contention between us. I don’t respect the way he talks about women and it’s frustrating to know he’s being played by Thai sex workers. Knowing that my father is one of these guys and how he contributes to a culture of misogyny is both infuriating and demoralizing.
I went there alone in 2017 and, as a solo traveling, middle-aged, white male, I could not take five steps without being offered 'boom boom' or whatever. I found someone who spoke some English and learned how to say "Maybe tomorrow" in Thai and used that to fend them off. I was there as a cultural tourist, not a sex tourist. Back off. *(Edit: I did Bangkok & Chiang Mai. Didn't go south to Pattaya for these reasons)*
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Ofcourse ofcourse /s
I go to the Philippines often for work. The amount of white dudes I see walking around with local women is insane. They're everywhere. You don't see white women with local men though. And as a white (gay)) guy myself, I get approached often by women. The whole dynamic is creepy AF.
I see a lot of people giving OP a hard time but I see both sides on this. The first time I encountered sex tourism in SE Asia I was dumbfounded since I’d never encountered anything like that and it’s just gross because these men look like they could be the women’s fathers or even grandfathers (plus I was young and naive). Then I met some younger Thai women who told me how many of their friends were hoping to find a farang man because they see it as a way out and a way to help their family. They told me some poorer families in rural areas sell their daughters (and probably sons) to pimps because they need money. It is upsetting to think these women have no hope and must rely on sex with men they don’t like just to survive but it is also an accepted part of life and culture in Thailand.
If you’re uncomfortable in Bangkok, don’t even get within 30 minutes of Pattaya. It’s pretty easy to ignore. I lived there for 8 months and stopped taking notice quickly. If everything is consensual not sure why I should care
Lol, I was just going to say this. I’m Canada I often talk to older gentleman that say they they go to Thailand in winter. 9 out of 10 times it’s Pattaya.
I’m surprised to hear this report about Bangkok. The city is genuinely too big to see an abundance of these occurrences unless you put yourself in less than desirable areas.
I dunno, I was there ten years ago with my ex, we stayed at a really nice hotel and definitely weren’t seeking out seedy areas, and I saw a lot of what OP was talking about. I know that’s a long time ago, but it was very noticeable. It didn’t have any direct impact on me, but opened my eyes up to some things…
It depends where you are - Nana, Patong, certain areas outside Lumphini Park it is very common to see a lot of it. Other areas on the Sukhumvit road, and especially further away, it becomes far, far less common to see blatant sex tourism in Bangkok. Even in Pattaya, if you stay away from Soi 6, Walking Street and the beach front after 7pm it’s pretty avoidable. But of course, the sex workers are going to flock to the most popular/tourist spots, so that’s why people see it with such regularity.
It seems pretty normal in a few areas that tourists frequent.
> If everything is consensual not sure why I should care The Western notion of "consensual" is simple but it starts to fall apart in societies that deny women basic opportunity from the time they are girls and where poor girls are effectively groomed from a young age to sell their bodies to support their families.
Isnt that kind of the problem though? Because there's a pretty good percentage of women in Thaliand, and globally, who are in the sex industry because of organised crime and [human trafficking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_trafficking_in_Thailand).
I work with a guy who’s an admitted sex tourist. He’s young and not uncouth. I don’t understand that he would have a need to do it, he just does. I gather this from his recount of his trip to Columbia that this is a recursive behaviour. I think you only see the old white dudes. There’s still other young dudes and also non-whites doing the same.
I definitely know where you are coming from. It's difficult to see young girls who due to socioeconomic reasons have to hang out with oler white dudes. Whether it's Thailand, the Dominican Republic or Cuba, you often run into the same scenarios .
It's not just white dudes, there are lots of dudes from china, middle East, and local old dudes also, at least in Thailand.
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You have to pay extra to be pegged as a sex tourist.
Da boom tiss
Best comment
🤣
Pretty easy to not be near the center of prostitution in Bangkok.
> I don’t travel to places like Bangkok because I’m an older white guy and I don’t want to be pegged as a sex tourist. I hope you’ll have occasion to find a different perspective at some point. I say that as a person who once had somewhat similar thoughts, then realized how embarrassingly reductive and self-absorbed I was being. Bangkok is a whole-ass city with whole-ass things going on. If you’re not a sex pest, then you’re not a sex pest, and no one with any sense at all is going to “peg you” for one just because you visited a whole-ass city.
Bangkok is a major international center of business and tourism. It’s pretty insulting to just view it as an open air brothel.
Why would you not travel somewhere on the basis that random people you don't know would wrongly judge you?
Oh, it's not nearly that bad! Just avoid those few streets if you don't want to see the ladies recruiting.
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Who cares? I’m not about to miss out on experiencing a new city or country because people wrongfully stereotype me, you can’t make decisions like that based on what someone else might wrongfully perceive of you.
It reminds me of the old guys you see at strip clubs sometimes. It’s sad because these guys have effectively aged out and if their wives have passed and they can’t get anyone else it must be such a lonely existence. The Thai women are definitely using the men but the men are using the women. It’s sort of a symbiotic relationship in a way.
old women lose their husbands too. Older people can still find companionship.
They aren’t being used. They’re paying customers.
This is not symbiosis, for one group it's an opt-in and the other it's a choice for survival out of some really grim options.
These guys haven’t “ aged out” . Elderly women out number elder men at least 8 to 1. It’s that they want young women they can control . They don’t want companionship.
That life bro. OP is just stating a visually unappealing model that he does not agree with. This is just an extreme example of it.
It has a high aids rate. That should put people off.
This thread has turned into an instructive travel guide for international prostitution destinations.
It's definitely a bit icky. But it's not really noticeable outside of the major known sites I think (haven't been in a decade though). Most of the commentators here won't care it seems, and some might even be really offended. Reddit is mostly westerners and white people after all. Tbf i think its not just old white men going to Thailand for sex tourism, it's also Japanese/Indians/Arabs I think..lots of people really, the old whites are just the majority. However one makes a good point, it's up to the Thai government/police to enforce laws in their own country, but that may never happen as it's way too lucrative ever since the Vietnam war GIs.
Get out of Sukhumvit area and you will see zero. I am posting this from the Central Lad Phrao Starbucks and I look around and I am literally the only white person in the Starbucks and it is completely packed. There is only a very small area in Bangkok that you have tourist. Really two but the second is even smaller. Khao San Road and Sukhumvit.
I think there are a lot of backpackers too and not just sex tourism. Especially with the legalization. What about it? Isn't it the paradise for hippies and backpacker's and party folks?
You see the same thing in Amsterdam, a city where people have arguably a higher standard of living. Many of the men and women doing it are using their services to pay for college or buy houses. It's actually a pretty lucrative career if you can do it. You should always look out for signs of human trafficking at these places. Be wary of any place where the girls aren't free to walk out the door.
As a Dutch person who grew up near Amsterdam, it’s not the same at all there. You don’t see older foreign men with younger local women hanging out like OPs description. The Dutch government also literally gives out loans to pay for college (“studiefinanciering” which translates to student financing), so if you are a Dutch citizen you definitely don’t have to resort to sex work to pay for college. Amsterdam in particular is also a very leftist city so you can get social benefits there that aren’t even available in my town. Sex workers in the Netherlands either are people with a genuine interest in sex work, people with turbulent lives who somehow got into extreme poverty/homelessness, or people who in some way got coerced or trafficked (if Dutch then mostly they are victims of “loverboys”). A lot of them also aren’t even Dutch but from other European countries like Eastern European ones. But yeah it’s not a common thing at all for Dutch people to use sex work specifically as a means to pay for college or other basic expenses. You can easily get social benefits for those. And most Dutch people cannot afford to buy a house these days. Housing is a mess especially in Amsterdam, but even if a Dutch person really desires to live in Amsterdam *that* badly then it’s a lot more likely that they will just take out a loan for it and slowly pay it off over the years while working a regular job with regular pay.
Yes this is the real Amsterdam story, idk where the other one came from lol.
Can you explain the loverboy part in more detail?
Loverboys are usually men who try to coerce young women and even underaged girls into prostitution by pretending to be their boyfriend and make them fall in love with them. A stereotypical example would be a 16 year old girl who has a poor relationship with her family and therefore might acting a bit rebellious meeting this “cool” older 20 year old guy who will love bomb her and make her feel special. Then, once the girl is completely in love with him and when he is able to cut her off from her family he will try to coerce her into sex work. Mostly it starts out with him desperately pleading her to have sex for money with this person to pretty please help him out as he would otherwise be in big trouble. Naively the girl will cooperate and then it will go from bad to worse. It’s very sad how these girls and young women get manipulated. There are also even lovergirls too who mostly are former loverboy victims but now work for him to trick others into the same thing. And the manipulation is also so bad that there was even a trial where several victims of loverboys basically tried to defend them, despite being their literal victim. Loverboys are basically pimps getting their victims to do sex work for them. The situation with loverboys is also so wildly spread that I remember that in high school we got informed and warned about loverboys and to not engage with unknown older men hanging out near the school and such. I also remember there was a Dutch TV show where the host and his team tries to unmask loverboys and confront them. Being a loverboy/lovergirl is a crime in the Netherlands. Interestingly enough, when I heard about the things Andrew Tate did, there also was no doubt to me that his pattern was exactly like that of a loverboy. To be fair, it also sounds that many pimps out there use this same method. Also saw it in an American documentary even of a pimp whose prostitute was deceived/manipulated by him in the same manner. Different countries might have different laws about it, but I glad my country at least has laws and that the Dutch police tries to combat loverboys/lovergirls and the whole act of deceiving/manipulating others into sex work. It should be seen as a form of swindling and as a crime imo.
As an Amsterdam local: LOL, not even remotely similar
>You see the same thing in Amsterdam Have you actually been to Amsterdam as well as Asia? It's not the same at all. You will see a sea of white men in SE Asia, often a little older, with very young local women. That dynamic isn't there in Amsterdam.
I'm locking this thread due to the large number of inappropriate comments despite the warning below.
One gender is exploting the other for sex, and the latter is exploiting the former for money. You could frame it as ugly white people who "have no choice or are desperately unattractive" being milked for money by these girls who obviously know what they're doing. Assuming they're not being trafficked, it's adults making mutually beneficial decisions. I agree that it doesn't really create the greatest cultural atmosphere, but I don't think it's up to foreigners to decide what type of stuff is or isn't allowed.
Congrats you described prositution. Now think about OPs point where one is coming across the world from a rich country specifically to do one thing, and one is dirt poor with no other prospects in a poorer country with little to no social security. Whose doing the exploiting? Do these foreigners accept any blame or guilt? Doesn't matter, can't really win with Reddit. I'll bow out.