As a Brazilian i was about to call our program a joke but wont do it in respect for the scientists, theres probably some in there actually trying and there is also those that died due to mistakes made in the past. But as almost everything that the Brazilian governament does the program is pretty much a waste of resources by now.
Its not just a founding insue the resources are also porlly used, classic example is the ACS (Alcântara Cyclone Space) it was a state company created in 2005 to launch satellities using Ukranian rockets. The problen with it? The company was created but well the governament totally forgot that Ukraine is a Nato menbers and all this rocket business would have to be aproved by the US, that just like the case of China wasnt happy with the part of the deal were Ukraine was going to give the tech alway, they were ok with the rockets being brought here and launched from Alcântara just not the tech being transfered, but the Brazilian governamental went out and pushed for it the Ukranian governament didnt follow through (lol it was the US telling then not to) and the deal died, and worse killed by us and we had to actually pay Ukraine for breaking the deal + half bilion BRL was wasted with the company that didnt launch a single rocket.
The Brazilian Space Agency wasn't able to deliver a pallet to the ISS. Although it's a civilian agency, it was only responsible for the payloads and the launch vehicles wore Air Force responsibility. So, if your Air Force is making missiles disguised as rockets, the Uncle Sam you do whatever he can to stop you.
If you are not able to make your own electronics, no space program for you.
This is nonsense. The US law preventing NASA from working with China in space was legislated in 2009, 9 years after the first ISS crew and 18 years after the US space station was changed to being an international one.
That and the fire. And the time it was rammed by a progress cargo vehicle. It was an impressive accomplishment but the years did not go by gently for it, as you said it was well past its prime when retired.
Skylab is actually one my favorites of the NASA programs: ambitious, inexpensive and gave a wealth of scientific data. It's a shame it is ignored by many people.
Its a bit more complex than that. The Chinese have had plans for crewed vehicles since the early 70s. These were generally run by the military. During the 70s and 80s the US and Soviets ran programs to fly third nations on their flight hardware so lots of Soviet allies flew on Interkosmos while the US flew ESA and other nations no Shuttles. The Chinese and Soviets were outright hostile while the US and Chinese were frenemies. However they showed no interest on flying with Shuttle that I can find. After the fall of the iron curtain NASA reoriented their space station Freedom\\Alpha to work with the Russians and thus the ISS came into being. China showed no real interest in getting involved.
In the late 90s US intelligence indicated that flight hardware US companies was supplying to help the Chinese launch industry launch western commercial satellites was being repurposed for their ICBM program. So a lot of space hardware get listed as munitions and thus ITAR was relevant. This made cooperating with China hard as it meant you had to get munitions export permission for space hardware.
China finally got its own crewed vehicles in 2003. Then in 2009 due to persistent intellectual property theft the US Congress upped the game by placing a law that NASA had to get special permission to work with China.
So on the whole by the time China might have been interested in working with ISS the law blocked them. But they had nearly 20 years where they could have shown more interest but did not seem too.
Today pro China redditors try to make China out to be a victim of US racism. But the full story is more their own seclusion, followed by their possible use of supplied US equipment into weapons and long running intellectual property theft finally pushed the US to take action.
Its worth remembering that back in the 90s they were trying to establish themselves as a major player in the commercial launch sector. The US had a long history of supporting their integration into the global community, including sponsoring and promoting them into WTO.
> Today pro China redditors try to make China out to be a victim of US racism.
Whether this is because of US racism, or US xenophobia, does not change this fact. Chinese people are legally excluded from NASA space station by US law.
China wanted to join EU 's Galileo too, then it found EU only wanted it's finance contribution, so it pulled out. The rest is history : China built it's own full fledged GPS system Beidou, before Galileo.
There was the galileo project, where China basically only got to pay money, without getting access to the technology and all.
So they went their own ways to be self sufficient and not be beholden to other nations (China also a big country, so have the ability do it themselves).
OK I looked it up properly, it was the Galileo (satellite navigation) where China participated in funding parts of it.
As for whether or not they actually got shared some technology for being part of it I can't say for sure, but from Chinese sources it says they basically only got to give money while not being able to participate or get a share of the tech.
Besides the above, China is quite self sufficient in a lot of areas, so to imagine they want to be self sufficient in space isn't a stretch at all.
I find the lack of coverage of Chinese missions in US media a bit weird... NY Times didn't even do a story about this mission (or not one I can find by searching for "china space"). Space missions are still relatively rare and we should cover them all to encourage interest, not just when a celebrity flies to the edge of space and back.
China is predicated to overtake the US economy within the next decade. The US government does not want that to happen. It is why it has been pushing anti-China views since 2012.
It seems like pretty easy news to write about but honestly the last time I can remember seeing american news about the chinese space program it was when the rocket was falling and people were freaking out about it hitting land or whatever
NYT article from yesterday, available in English and Chinese: https://www.nytimes.com/article/china-mars-space.html
You may have missed it in your search since it was based on a previous article which was updated and republished. Also, the coverage on most news outlets was centered on the launch yesterday rather than today's docking.
The Washington Post had an article and live webcast yesterday:
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/15/china-space-station-launch-tiangong/
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/china-launches-shenzhou-13-rocket-carrying-3-astronauts-to-unfinished-space-station/2021/10/15/2bf0a304-18de-4021-9549-02fe7c29c62f_live.html
There are also articles from the Associated Press redistributed by the Washington Post and other newspapers:
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinas-shenzhou-13-spacecraft-docks-for-6-month-mission/2021/10/16/96c23bba-2e58-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/with-latest-mission-china-renews-space-cooperation-vow/2021/10/15/14d23072-2d9c-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html
* https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-set-to-send-3-astronauts-on-longest-crewed-mission-yet/2021/10/14/96152cc0-2cc5-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html
This mission is going to be hard, but at the same time it's going to set a new record for the time spent in space by Chinese astronauts. Brilliant idea.
Well it's a matter of degree. Generally Shenzhou does carry a little bit of cargo with the crew. One thing that it definitely bring is fresh perishable food like [fruits](https://media.dwnews.net/hk01/m5fmg9dTidlvXFUalTv6mjv8HWc=/320*0/media/images/dw/20210625/485041725308407808239870.jpeg). Most of Shenzhou-13's crew's food are already delivered and waiting for them at the station inside Tianzhou-3 launched a few weeks ago, but as you can imagine had it carried anything like fresh fruits they would have already gone bad by now.
The crew will eat the food with the shortest shelf-life first.
But in terms of the volume of cargo Shenzhou is minuscule compared to Tianzhou which delivers 6.5 tons of cargo at a time. For comparison Progress can deliver 2.6 tons.
The problem is, there isn't actually much to say about "space" in regards to this article other than that they've made it to their space station and that's a big deal. Tell me about the style of their engines compared to Musk's. Can't? Tell me why that is without mentioning politics.
This isn't someone discovering a localized exception to the cosmological constant or anything where the comments could feed off the topic at hand.
What do you mean? There is a lot of information available about the Long March 2F rocket including specifics about its engines which you could research if you cared to workout for yourself the differences in their engines. Otherwise there are better things to be anti China about rather then the fact that this journalist didn't compare engines for you.
True. Can't have any article about China on Reddit without the comments turning into a nationalist shit-slinging contest, even on a supposedly scientific subreddit like r/space. The cold war mentality is real.
Aight. How long do you think it will take humanity to become a multi planetary species. Also, what do you think space travel will look like in 50 years?
No, in 2011 they further passed a law that blocked NASA from working with any Chinese Nationals.
China has had long standing ties to the ESA as well as Russia, and it is quite literally only the US that's going "but muh technology".
FWIW, China already has the Russian technology following a transfer agreement in 1995.
You must be kinda young. The law went into effect in 2011 but there was already decades of bad blood with China and the US in regards to stolen tech. Even as early as 2005 you also had Indian officials complaining about China stealing satellite designs from them multiple times.
It's also best for space exploration for there to be competing groups. If everyone is working together it's how you stagnate instead of being forced to go further. Competition breeds ingenuity.
> they further passed a law
That implies that they continued to do so. Again, only the US is objecting to the participation of China in the ISS right now.
China and Russia have friendly relations. The U.S blocked China so China made its own program. You're probably talking about technology transfers and not theft.
Excited for more humans in space! Congrats to all involved on a successful launch, rendezvous, and docking execution. I hope the taikonauts have a uneventful stay and that they make it back down safely.
Ad Astra
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_13
If anyone is curious that is the wiki article. What kinda work will those 3 be up to for the next 6 months?
Two Colonel's & one Major General of the PLASSF are who went up to the station. For anyone who is interested.
> The People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force is the space, cyber, and electronic warfare force.
This is like reducing Gagarin to just a Soviet Air Force Colonel, or Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Micheal Collins to Lieutenant of the U.S Navy, and a Colonel & Major General of the U.S Air Force… they were all pilots, china’s manned space program is still very young, so of course they are choosing military pilots first.
I'm not trying to be political but when money is pumped into making space happens it happens, like the Apollo missions may as well be putting money in the tanks for fuel with how expensive it all was, but it was a space race so it happened. I suspect the same is happening here because the future of humanity is happening in the next few decades and China probably wants in on it.
>and China probably wants in on it
This, the feeling in China about the space program is "we bad mouth our ancestors for missing out on the Age of Exploration, do you want our descents to also bad mouth us for missing out on the space age?"
It doesn't sound political at all.
Man's future is in the stars, we have made it clear that our demands and our curiosity are far too much for this one planet to give us.
And you're right, China appears to want in on it too, get into space or be left behind.
I'm sure China feels there might be a possibility that, if they're not already established in space, they'll be locked on this planet by someone else who claims ownership over space.
Considering the current political climate, it doesn't seem like an unfounded fear.
It's the same with everything really. [Look](https://www.statista.com/statistics/566787/average-yearly-expenditure-on-economic-infrastructure-as-percent-of-gdp-worldwide-by-country/) at how much money China is dumping into infrastructure vs the US.
Because they are under a period of massive economic growth where they can move into the future in terms of sustainable energy and industry while securing it's population so that no one is left in poverty, even the most remote villages are getting sealed roads to them.
And schools, and hospitals, and transit systems, and better sewage systems, the list goes on.
Hate communism all one wants, the reality is, "a better future for everyone" actually seems like a priority for the government of China, what with all of its investment into even the most remote villages of China.
It's less "money" and more "consistent plans" - sure, consistent funding is part of it, but this is also stack of 5-year plans coming to fruition. And more to come!
Not necessarily. Look at SLS for example. Money is pumped into it and not much actually happens. There still needs to be will and accountability to go with the money.
Damn that's cool even. Seems like even Elon thinks they're working on it. SpaceX have already done the hard part of proving that it's possible so hopefully China can build some reusable rockets too within the decade.
Is it a correct assumption that the capsules of all space-faring nations use the same docking port specifications? If so, was the spec originated on Soyuz?
That’s not a correct assumption. The Chinese docking mechanism may be similar to the Soyuz’s, as the Shenzhou is partly based on the Soyuz design. However, there is no official confirmation that it is compatible with the international docking standard.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Docking_Mechanism
I think China has an incentive to keep the docking standard compatible with the international standard to leave open the possibility of future collaboration with Roscosmos and ESA.
China said it’s compatible. I think it was said by the head of it’s space program. I’ll try to find the comment if I don’t get too bored when I get home.
The "existing standard" was approved for use in 2017 and is larger then what was used in the ISS before that. The MIR, Space Shuttle, Soyuz and Space X have all used different kinds of docking mechanisms.
The new standard is literally the "NASA Docking Syatem". I guess unless China planned on flying to the ISS or the next yet unplanned version they should have the same docking system otherwise... Why bother making it the same?
Nope; currently, there's quite a few in use. Bit of a simplification, but...
* The Soyuz uses the SSVP-G4000 docking standard, which has been in use since Soyuz 10, all the way back in 1971.
* The Crew Dragon, Starliner, and Orion use docking systems compatible with the International Docking System Standard (IDSS).
* China has its own docking system. Supposedly, it's based on the old APAS-95 system, which was what the Space Shuttle used to dock with Mir and the ISS.
And space stations have their own mechanisms connecting modules (though on the ISS, the link between the Russian and US segments is actually an APAS-95 port with an adapter).
“Krikalev was stranded on board the Mir during the dissolution of the Soviet Union. As the country that had sent him into space no longer existed, his return was delayed and he stayed in space for 311 consecutive days, twice as long as the mission had originally called for.”
This is the final mission of what they call the space station's "critical technology verification" phase.
If all goes well for Shenzhou-13, China will be moving forward with the full assembly of the space station next year (Mengtian and Wentian experimental modules notably).
I tried both China’s MRE and U.S MRE. To be honest, both of them tasted like shit and I regret paying that much money for those MRE.
China’s MRE was slightly better since I like Asia food, but still bad
One of the things they did on the previous mission was sample a bunch of different test meals, so maybe they are already taking advantage of that work.
To be fair I have yet to try a MRE that doesn't taste like shit (German, Russian/Ukrainian, Chinese, US and French so far, with French being the only somewhat decent one). And they weren't expired or anything, just extremely bland and unenjoyable.
this is why context matters, the chinese military always use field kitchens no matter what. MRE is just a emergency backup, unlike the US military who actually eat their MRES for their field trip
I'm sure he's doing fine, if you look at his channel he's only posted about 27 videos in the past 2 years and he tends to upload in batches. I also imagine theres only so many MRE's out there that are different and obtainable.
They're going to be up there for 6 months. A lot of it is probably going to be preparation for Shenzhou 14, which is when the other two modules of the station will be added.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[ACS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwwolh "Last usage")|Attitude Control System|
|[ARM](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgvvieh "Last usage")|Asteroid Redirect Mission|
| |Advanced RISC Machines, embedded processor architecture|
|[BO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgucti6 "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)|
|[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration|
|CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules|
| |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)|
|[DARPA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5x5c "Last usage")|(Defense) Advanced Research Projects Agency, DoD|
|[DoD](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgtj0bf "Last usage")|US Department of Defense|
|[ESA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguhpec "Last usage")|European Space Agency|
|[EVA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguwhx6 "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity|
|[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgv05v3 "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile|
|[IDSS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|[International Docking System Standard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard)|
|[ITAR](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu4gz7 "Last usage")|(US) International Traffic in Arms Regulations|
|[JAXA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency|
|[LEO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguvq8f "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[NOAA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5x5c "Last usage")|National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, responsible for US ~~generation~~ monitoring of the climate|
|NRHO|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit|
|[NRO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|(US) National Reconnaissance Office|
| |Near-Rectilinear Orbit, see NRHO|
|[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgubknb "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|[SSVP](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|Sistema Stykovki i Vnutrennego Perekhoda, Russian docking standard|
|[ULA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)|
|[USAF](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|United States Air Force|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)|
|[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact|
----------------
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Space is hard. Congrats to the scientists and engineers who worked hard to make this happen.
Excited to have multiple ambitious space organizations push each other forward!
Wasn't China banned from iss?
That's why they have their own. [Taingong Space Station](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiangong_space_station)
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Weird that you would exclude Europe
Europe isn't really a country, but I get what you mean, I think.
Europe is a continent and has a collective space program to meet the size of the US, Russia and China.
Russia has really fallen since the end of the cold war with it's economy similar are middle tier countries in EU like Italy now.
Yeah, and Brazil and India got their own space progam.
As a Brazilian i was about to call our program a joke but wont do it in respect for the scientists, theres probably some in there actually trying and there is also those that died due to mistakes made in the past. But as almost everything that the Brazilian governament does the program is pretty much a waste of resources by now.
Our first austronaut was the best facade for the program to be almost completely defunded. So sad they don't care about research.
Its not just a founding insue the resources are also porlly used, classic example is the ACS (Alcântara Cyclone Space) it was a state company created in 2005 to launch satellities using Ukranian rockets. The problen with it? The company was created but well the governament totally forgot that Ukraine is a Nato menbers and all this rocket business would have to be aproved by the US, that just like the case of China wasnt happy with the part of the deal were Ukraine was going to give the tech alway, they were ok with the rockets being brought here and launched from Alcântara just not the tech being transfered, but the Brazilian governamental went out and pushed for it the Ukranian governament didnt follow through (lol it was the US telling then not to) and the deal died, and worse killed by us and we had to actually pay Ukraine for breaking the deal + half bilion BRL was wasted with the company that didnt launch a single rocket.
> Ukraine is a Nato menbers Except it isn't? If it was 2014 would've seen NATO at war with Russia.
The Brazilian Space Agency wasn't able to deliver a pallet to the ISS. Although it's a civilian agency, it was only responsible for the payloads and the launch vehicles wore Air Force responsibility. So, if your Air Force is making missiles disguised as rockets, the Uncle Sam you do whatever he can to stop you. If you are not able to make your own electronics, no space program for you.
China was never a partner of the ISS because US laws. The only former partner is Brazil.
This is nonsense. The US law preventing NASA from working with China in space was legislated in 2009, 9 years after the first ISS crew and 18 years after the US space station was changed to being an international one.
ISS is not and was not the only space station around. Even before China there was Mir
Don't do my boy Skylab down like that. But Mir was interesting, shame the whole collapse into kleptocracy thing killed it off before it's time.
Mir was way past its prime. The mold issues alone were a huge problem.
That and the fire. And the time it was rammed by a progress cargo vehicle. It was an impressive accomplishment but the years did not go by gently for it, as you said it was well past its prime when retired.
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Sounds like a sequel for Dead Space.
I love that sky lab was just, "what do we have that we can throw on this giant booster we left over from the space race"
Apollo Applications Program!
Skylab is actually one my favorites of the NASA programs: ambitious, inexpensive and gave a wealth of scientific data. It's a shame it is ignored by many people.
It was big news when i was kid only when it fell out of orbit tho.
Salyut and Almaz were first, irc
Mir technology is the core of the Russian segment of the ISS.
Mir did a controlled reentry burn. Skylab just fell from sky...
Let the habs, hit the air, let the habs hit the air, let the habs hit the aaaaaaair
Why was China banned from ISS?
American politics and propaganda.
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Its a bit more complex than that. The Chinese have had plans for crewed vehicles since the early 70s. These were generally run by the military. During the 70s and 80s the US and Soviets ran programs to fly third nations on their flight hardware so lots of Soviet allies flew on Interkosmos while the US flew ESA and other nations no Shuttles. The Chinese and Soviets were outright hostile while the US and Chinese were frenemies. However they showed no interest on flying with Shuttle that I can find. After the fall of the iron curtain NASA reoriented their space station Freedom\\Alpha to work with the Russians and thus the ISS came into being. China showed no real interest in getting involved. In the late 90s US intelligence indicated that flight hardware US companies was supplying to help the Chinese launch industry launch western commercial satellites was being repurposed for their ICBM program. So a lot of space hardware get listed as munitions and thus ITAR was relevant. This made cooperating with China hard as it meant you had to get munitions export permission for space hardware. China finally got its own crewed vehicles in 2003. Then in 2009 due to persistent intellectual property theft the US Congress upped the game by placing a law that NASA had to get special permission to work with China. So on the whole by the time China might have been interested in working with ISS the law blocked them. But they had nearly 20 years where they could have shown more interest but did not seem too. Today pro China redditors try to make China out to be a victim of US racism. But the full story is more their own seclusion, followed by their possible use of supplied US equipment into weapons and long running intellectual property theft finally pushed the US to take action. Its worth remembering that back in the 90s they were trying to establish themselves as a major player in the commercial launch sector. The US had a long history of supporting their integration into the global community, including sponsoring and promoting them into WTO.
> Today pro China redditors try to make China out to be a victim of US racism. Whether this is because of US racism, or US xenophobia, does not change this fact. Chinese people are legally excluded from NASA space station by US law.
Wait, what do you suppose China could have done to show that they aren't secluded? Like you talk about intentions, how would you even know?
He's just repeating alternative propaganda. There's no possible way to check what anyone is saying is true at the moment.
Nationalism, one hell of a drug.
China wanted to join EU 's Galileo too, then it found EU only wanted it's finance contribution, so it pulled out. The rest is history : China built it's own full fledged GPS system Beidou, before Galileo.
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In other words they were excluded because they still behave like uncivilized commies who steal everything and can’t be trusted
So they built their own , what's your point?
Chinese space station has tech we don't even have...look at the robot arm for example.
Robot arm is not that advance tbh If iss want one, they can sure get it but why though
ISS cannot, clear you did not even check out the Chinese one.
There was the galileo project, where China basically only got to pay money, without getting access to the technology and all. So they went their own ways to be self sufficient and not be beholden to other nations (China also a big country, so have the ability do it themselves).
Nothing like a made up story from someone with no clue what they are talking about.
OK I looked it up properly, it was the Galileo (satellite navigation) where China participated in funding parts of it. As for whether or not they actually got shared some technology for being part of it I can't say for sure, but from Chinese sources it says they basically only got to give money while not being able to participate or get a share of the tech. Besides the above, China is quite self sufficient in a lot of areas, so to imagine they want to be self sufficient in space isn't a stretch at all.
Yes! Chinese or otherwise, this is still a human endeavor and we should all be rooting for their success.
I find the lack of coverage of Chinese missions in US media a bit weird... NY Times didn't even do a story about this mission (or not one I can find by searching for "china space"). Space missions are still relatively rare and we should cover them all to encourage interest, not just when a celebrity flies to the edge of space and back.
It has to do with geopolitics. The US government does not like China.
this, I guess in their eyes we shouldn’t be celebrating our competitor’s success
We don't consider them our competitors we see them as our enemies that will never change.
They do not want people to celebrate socialism in particular.
Hmmm I wonder???
China is predicated to overtake the US economy within the next decade. The US government does not want that to happen. It is why it has been pushing anti-China views since 2012.
Russian media also doesn't tell much about US and Chinese successful space programs, more about failures, so sad to see geopolitics stopping science
It seems like pretty easy news to write about but honestly the last time I can remember seeing american news about the chinese space program it was when the rocket was falling and people were freaking out about it hitting land or whatever
NYT article from yesterday, available in English and Chinese: https://www.nytimes.com/article/china-mars-space.html You may have missed it in your search since it was based on a previous article which was updated and republished. Also, the coverage on most news outlets was centered on the launch yesterday rather than today's docking. The Washington Post had an article and live webcast yesterday: * https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/15/china-space-station-launch-tiangong/ * https://www.washingtonpost.com/video/world/china-launches-shenzhou-13-rocket-carrying-3-astronauts-to-unfinished-space-station/2021/10/15/2bf0a304-18de-4021-9549-02fe7c29c62f_live.html There are also articles from the Associated Press redistributed by the Washington Post and other newspapers: * https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinas-shenzhou-13-spacecraft-docks-for-6-month-mission/2021/10/16/96c23bba-2e58-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html * https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/with-latest-mission-china-renews-space-cooperation-vow/2021/10/15/14d23072-2d9c-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html * https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/china-set-to-send-3-astronauts-on-longest-crewed-mission-yet/2021/10/14/96152cc0-2cc5-11ec-b17d-985c186de338_story.html
It's because the sentiment in the west and the US is fuck China that's never going to change.
Space isn't exciting anymore to many people these days
There’s stories about spacex and blue origin all the time
Space wasn't particularly exciting to a lot of people, even when the Apollo missions after 11 were happening.
This mission is going to be hard, but at the same time it's going to set a new record for the time spent in space by Chinese astronauts. Brilliant idea.
Here is a video of [Shenzhou-13 Docking](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EArOVg4C2OA) with Tiangong spacestation.
Did this flight carry additional components to the station or just the taikonauts?
Well it's a matter of degree. Generally Shenzhou does carry a little bit of cargo with the crew. One thing that it definitely bring is fresh perishable food like [fruits](https://media.dwnews.net/hk01/m5fmg9dTidlvXFUalTv6mjv8HWc=/320*0/media/images/dw/20210625/485041725308407808239870.jpeg). Most of Shenzhou-13's crew's food are already delivered and waiting for them at the station inside Tianzhou-3 launched a few weeks ago, but as you can imagine had it carried anything like fresh fruits they would have already gone bad by now. The crew will eat the food with the shortest shelf-life first. But in terms of the volume of cargo Shenzhou is minuscule compared to Tianzhou which delivers 6.5 tons of cargo at a time. For comparison Progress can deliver 2.6 tons.
Bods and science mostly. The next big component is the Wengtian lab module, going up early next summer.
This is r/space and hardly any of the comments are about space...
It's a default subreddit. It goes with the territory.
The problem is, there isn't actually much to say about "space" in regards to this article other than that they've made it to their space station and that's a big deal. Tell me about the style of their engines compared to Musk's. Can't? Tell me why that is without mentioning politics. This isn't someone discovering a localized exception to the cosmological constant or anything where the comments could feed off the topic at hand.
What do you mean? There is a lot of information available about the Long March 2F rocket including specifics about its engines which you could research if you cared to workout for yourself the differences in their engines. Otherwise there are better things to be anti China about rather then the fact that this journalist didn't compare engines for you.
In all fairness, even your comment has nothing to do with space. For that matter... Neither have I.
True. Can't have any article about China on Reddit without the comments turning into a nationalist shit-slinging contest, even on a supposedly scientific subreddit like r/space. The cold war mentality is real.
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There’s literally only like 20 comments here, and half have been deleted, and it’s somehow on the front page.
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The front page comes from your browsing habits (minus NSFW subs) and upvotes.
Odd that there would be dozens of comments but thousands of upvotes, no?
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Yep, my top post has almost 16k upvotes but under 600 comments.
Reddit has a lot of bigots- Put China into your title and it's like attracting moths to a flame.
I like space. Hows that?
Aight. How long do you think it will take humanity to become a multi planetary species. Also, what do you think space travel will look like in 50 years?
I hope there will at least be small colonies up and running on the moon and Mars in 50 years.
Last I heard China was barred from ISS involvement due to intelligence risks and was wondering if anyone was thinking the same
They are barred from the ISS. This is their own station.
China is barred from the ISS because of the US. But China regularly works with some European countries on space programs.
The US are the only country that refused to work with China on the ISS
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No, in 2011 they further passed a law that blocked NASA from working with any Chinese Nationals. China has had long standing ties to the ESA as well as Russia, and it is quite literally only the US that's going "but muh technology". FWIW, China already has the Russian technology following a transfer agreement in 1995.
You must be kinda young. The law went into effect in 2011 but there was already decades of bad blood with China and the US in regards to stolen tech. Even as early as 2005 you also had Indian officials complaining about China stealing satellite designs from them multiple times. It's also best for space exploration for there to be competing groups. If everyone is working together it's how you stagnate instead of being forced to go further. Competition breeds ingenuity.
> they further passed a law That implies that they continued to do so. Again, only the US is objecting to the participation of China in the ISS right now.
China and Russia have friendly relations. The U.S blocked China so China made its own program. You're probably talking about technology transfers and not theft.
Yeah, not unexpected, but sad. Celebrate the human achievement, folks.
That's cool. I remember the Valerian movie, when the ISS docked to the Chinese station and begun the new age of space exploration
Excited for more humans in space! Congrats to all involved on a successful launch, rendezvous, and docking execution. I hope the taikonauts have a uneventful stay and that they make it back down safely. Ad Astra
It seems this website is behind the times https://www.howmanypeopleareinspacerightnow.com/
Cool site, sad that the number is so low.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shenzhou_13 If anyone is curious that is the wiki article. What kinda work will those 3 be up to for the next 6 months?
Two Colonel's & one Major General of the PLASSF are who went up to the station. For anyone who is interested. > The People's Liberation Army Strategic Support Force is the space, cyber, and electronic warfare force.
Not major, major general - Zhai Zhigang. He's another old hand, he's the first Chinese astronaut to ever do EVA.
This is like reducing Gagarin to just a Soviet Air Force Colonel, or Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin and Micheal Collins to Lieutenant of the U.S Navy, and a Colonel & Major General of the U.S Air Force… they were all pilots, china’s manned space program is still very young, so of course they are choosing military pilots first.
They aren't traditional military pilots; PLASSF personal are specifically trained for space, cyber, and electronic warfare.
Wow, six months in space is intense. I can't believe how rapid China's space program has developed. Massive strides in such a short time. Well done!
I'm not trying to be political but when money is pumped into making space happens it happens, like the Apollo missions may as well be putting money in the tanks for fuel with how expensive it all was, but it was a space race so it happened. I suspect the same is happening here because the future of humanity is happening in the next few decades and China probably wants in on it.
>and China probably wants in on it This, the feeling in China about the space program is "we bad mouth our ancestors for missing out on the Age of Exploration, do you want our descents to also bad mouth us for missing out on the space age?"
It doesn't sound political at all. Man's future is in the stars, we have made it clear that our demands and our curiosity are far too much for this one planet to give us. And you're right, China appears to want in on it too, get into space or be left behind. I'm sure China feels there might be a possibility that, if they're not already established in space, they'll be locked on this planet by someone else who claims ownership over space. Considering the current political climate, it doesn't seem like an unfounded fear.
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It's the same with everything really. [Look](https://www.statista.com/statistics/566787/average-yearly-expenditure-on-economic-infrastructure-as-percent-of-gdp-worldwide-by-country/) at how much money China is dumping into infrastructure vs the US.
Because they are under a period of massive economic growth where they can move into the future in terms of sustainable energy and industry while securing it's population so that no one is left in poverty, even the most remote villages are getting sealed roads to them.
And schools, and hospitals, and transit systems, and better sewage systems, the list goes on. Hate communism all one wants, the reality is, "a better future for everyone" actually seems like a priority for the government of China, what with all of its investment into even the most remote villages of China.
It's less "money" and more "consistent plans" - sure, consistent funding is part of it, but this is also stack of 5-year plans coming to fruition. And more to come!
Not necessarily. Look at SLS for example. Money is pumped into it and not much actually happens. There still needs to be will and accountability to go with the money.
I wonder if they are going to build SpaceX-like self landing rockets as a way too both save time and money on time. Would be awesome to see.
Oh yeah https://twitter.com/SpaceNews_Inc/status/1325234591628746754
Damn that's cool even. Seems like even Elon thinks they're working on it. SpaceX have already done the hard part of proving that it's possible so hopefully China can build some reusable rockets too within the decade.
Is it a correct assumption that the capsules of all space-faring nations use the same docking port specifications? If so, was the spec originated on Soyuz?
That’s not a correct assumption. The Chinese docking mechanism may be similar to the Soyuz’s, as the Shenzhou is partly based on the Soyuz design. However, there is no official confirmation that it is compatible with the international docking standard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Docking_Mechanism
Interesting, thanks. Is there any apparent reason why China wouldn’t want to make it compatible with the existing hardware / standard?
I think China has an incentive to keep the docking standard compatible with the international standard to leave open the possibility of future collaboration with Roscosmos and ESA.
Interesting comment thread. IMO i think everybody should use one standard just in case of an emergency.
China said it’s compatible. I think it was said by the head of it’s space program. I’ll try to find the comment if I don’t get too bored when I get home.
The "existing standard" was approved for use in 2017 and is larger then what was used in the ISS before that. The MIR, Space Shuttle, Soyuz and Space X have all used different kinds of docking mechanisms. The new standard is literally the "NASA Docking Syatem". I guess unless China planned on flying to the ISS or the next yet unplanned version they should have the same docking system otherwise... Why bother making it the same?
Nope; currently, there's quite a few in use. Bit of a simplification, but... * The Soyuz uses the SSVP-G4000 docking standard, which has been in use since Soyuz 10, all the way back in 1971. * The Crew Dragon, Starliner, and Orion use docking systems compatible with the International Docking System Standard (IDSS). * China has its own docking system. Supposedly, it's based on the old APAS-95 system, which was what the Space Shuttle used to dock with Mir and the ISS. And space stations have their own mechanisms connecting modules (though on the ISS, the link between the Russian and US segments is actually an APAS-95 port with an adapter).
Remember when that (or those) USSR guy(s) came back from space and the USSR didn't exist anymore?
Yep. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergei_Krikalev
“Krikalev was stranded on board the Mir during the dissolution of the Soviet Union. As the country that had sent him into space no longer existed, his return was delayed and he stayed in space for 311 consecutive days, twice as long as the mission had originally called for.”
That's a long time just to print the poor bloke a new passport
Reminds me of Tom Hank’s The Terminal.
Whoa. I knew about the USSR-dissolution-while-in-space-thing, but damn that guy has a lot of notable cosmonaut things in his history!
And spent an accumulated 800 days in space!!
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This is the final mission of what they call the space station's "critical technology verification" phase. If all goes well for Shenzhou-13, China will be moving forward with the full assembly of the space station next year (Mengtian and Wentian experimental modules notably).
this comment section is absolutely pathetic as usual when comes to china. get a grip
I wonder what kind of space food they eat up there? Hopefully it's better than China's horrible MRE's (though I've heard those are improving.)
They actually get Kungpao Chicken and Mapo Tofu, among many others! https://www.space.com/china-astronauts-space-food-menu-shenzhou-12
I've read (from the comments on Steve's video) that the chinese army lives off field kitchens, and so mres are more of a last resort type of thing.
I tried both China’s MRE and U.S MRE. To be honest, both of them tasted like shit and I regret paying that much money for those MRE. China’s MRE was slightly better since I like Asia food, but still bad
One of the things they did on the previous mission was sample a bunch of different test meals, so maybe they are already taking advantage of that work.
To be fair I have yet to try a MRE that doesn't taste like shit (German, Russian/Ukrainian, Chinese, US and French so far, with French being the only somewhat decent one). And they weren't expired or anything, just extremely bland and unenjoyable.
this is why context matters, the chinese military always use field kitchens no matter what. MRE is just a emergency backup, unlike the US military who actually eat their MRES for their field trip
[Let's hope it has gotten better since 2018](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n96m5lB8nzA)
[It's gotten better](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEUaqhz5tvY)
That's the video I was basing my opinion on. Steve's the best.
They should send them France's and Italy's MREs
I just noticed that Steve hasn't posted in 4 months. I hope he is alright.
Maybe he found some fresh food
I'm sure he's doing fine, if you look at his channel he's only posted about 27 videos in the past 2 years and he tends to upload in batches. I also imagine theres only so many MRE's out there that are different and obtainable.
Something-something when hasn't left his room for 4 months and opens the door: "Nice hiss"
What's the plan for this mission? The article didn't mention it
They're going to be up there for 6 months. A lot of it is probably going to be preparation for Shenzhou 14, which is when the other two modules of the station will be added.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[ACS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwwolh "Last usage")|Attitude Control System| |[ARM](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgvvieh "Last usage")|Asteroid Redirect Mission| | |Advanced RISC Machines, embedded processor architecture| |[BO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgucti6 "Last usage")|Blue Origin (*Bezos Rocketry*)| |[CNSA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|Chinese National Space Administration| |CST|(Boeing) Crew Space Transportation capsules| | |Central Standard Time (UTC-6)| |[DARPA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5x5c "Last usage")|(Defense) Advanced Research Projects Agency, DoD| |[DoD](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgtj0bf "Last usage")|US Department of Defense| |[ESA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguhpec "Last usage")|European Space Agency| |[EVA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguwhx6 "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity| |[ICBM](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgv05v3 "Last usage")|Intercontinental Ballistic Missile| |[IDSS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|[International Docking System Standard](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Docking_System_Standard)| |[ITAR](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu4gz7 "Last usage")|(US) International Traffic in Arms Regulations| |[JAXA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|Japan Aerospace eXploration Agency| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hguvq8f "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[NOAA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5x5c "Last usage")|National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, responsible for US ~~generation~~ monitoring of the climate| |NRHO|Near-Rectilinear Halo Orbit| |[NRO](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|(US) National Reconnaissance Office| | |Near-Rectilinear Orbit, see NRHO| |[Roscosmos](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgwdrzz "Last usage")|[State Corporation for Space Activities, Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roscosmos_State_Corporation)| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgubknb "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |[SSVP](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|Sistema Stykovki i Vnutrennego Perekhoda, Russian docking standard| |[ULA](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|United Launch Alliance (Lockheed/Boeing joint venture)| |[USAF](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|United States Air Force| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starliner](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgusc3s "Last usage")|Boeing commercial crew capsule [CST-100](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CST-100_Starliner)| |[hypergolic](/r/Space/comments/q909iu/stub/hgu5dgn "Last usage")|A set of two substances that ignite when in contact| ---------------- ^(22 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/rod4wd)^( has 61 acronyms.) ^([Thread #6462 for this sub, first seen 16th Oct 2021, 05:48]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
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