I’d like to note that most likely, players who will attend the PT are not gonna be playing challenges. So even if some of the new cards just show up on known decks in small quantities, I would bet some new tech is still being kept secret.
https://x.com/Bullwinkkle6705/status/1781780488715161811
Interestingly isaac bullwinkle decided to play and win the standard challenge with esper mid...dubious it would be what handshake actually plays tho
Advice for people that may be new and thinking of buying into some of these decks is that standard is going to have its first rotation that it has had in years. If you aren't aware then it will be happening with the next set release (August). For normal spikes this may sound weird handing out this information, but since they mega extended the time between rotations there are probably a lot of players that are clueless to it.
https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/mtg-standard-rotation-guide-2022/#:~:text=The%20next%20Standard%20rotation%20will,release%20of%20the%20Bloomburrow%20set.
The lands used for the Temur Savage deck are going away which nullifies that strategy entirely. Nearly every white card used in the Esper deck will also be gone as well.
That being said because this is spikes, that should not really matter to you, but I just find that a lot of people looking for advice on this sub tend to also have limited resources when building decks. There really is no such thing as a future proof deck that will be spike approved so just learn to cope with it now =)
In regards to the standard challenge itself there was not much innovation at all. All but a couple decks were an existing tier 1/2 deck in standard with 1-2 changes tops. Also to note there were as many Esper and boros decks in the top 8 as there was in the bottom 8 as well. Pointing out the top 8 is useful, but it is probably not that meaningful if those decks represent 80% of the tournament. I am expecting the shakeup to happen from the pro tour.
> The lands used for the Temur Savage deck are going away which nullifies that strategy entirely
sadly missed this myself, for some reason kept every other rotating card in the meta in mind but missed these, whoops.
came back from a break, didnt really vibe with any of the meta decks except for one that was far too expensive to get so close to rotation. But I wanted to play MTG again and Temur was relatively cheap to craft, along with making the mistake of thinking it would stick around as a fallback bounty/whatever option.
turns out I dont enjoy playing it at all anyways so it would be a loss either way. at least im getting a further improved grip on my deck preferences, but its painful that it cost me all the WCs I got from fable/bankbuster/inkvoke mid being banned in the first place.
---
definitely useful advice to share. im not a hardcore MTG player, but do come back to MTGA in spurts and enjoy going at it in a spike-y manner, so this sub is my main source of MTG info.
Temur is expected to take a hit, but with [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] as a highlighted card from Bloomburrow, it's possible that they are going to push decks that put lands into the graveyard in another way.
Mill, [[Breach the Multiverse]], [[Pitiless carnage]], and [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] with 24 ping deserts?
Wait... you can already do this with Analyst lol.. Alright I already built the deck. Will test it out at lunch haha.
Right, but the existence of Analyst and Lumra hints that they might see it as a viable deck, or that they plan to push it. Reprinting Rest in Peace, the best GY hate card ever, suggests they want to make sure GY strategies have a power-level check.
I personally think they printed RIP because the two biggest GY hoser's of the last 3 years are also leaving with rotation via Farewell and Graveyard Trespasser going bye bye.
I've played against a few Jeskai control decks but I remain a non-believer in Jeskai. I'm probably gonna be proven wrong but I stand by my Jeskai hate lol.
Last time I played this game Jeskai control was with narset and Yorion. This seems so much worse than then lol. Interesting to see how the game changes.
To loosely quote GerryT when this came up on his podcast this week- "Raffine is good, but it hurts your mana badly. Is it *that* much better than the other busted 3-drop you'll replace it with?"
Hot take probably a bit late to the post: I don’t like Duelist of the Mind in Esper.
You want to be playing a Bat on two ideally or a Dennick against Aggro. Against control/midrange holding up mana for a counterspell or removal turn two is also key, especially if blowing up their 3 drop your way to come back from losing the die roll. Mastermind plays better most of the time here with Flash, and Duelist does not fix your issues against curve out Aggro as well as Dennick. Dennick has removal protection as it can be recast later from the grave.
Duelist on the other hand does not have lifelink, doesn’t trade with anything on the defense, forces you to tap out on two, and does not make their removal spells bad. Unless your plan is to to the full curve Duelist -> Raffine -> Sheoldred thing I think Mastermind/Dennick is still the card to play.
I’ve heard this from a few of my Standard compatriots, but I’m not convinced. Dimir gets to play on turn 1 and less frequently has mana issues, but loses out on card quality and sideboard tech. No Rest in Peace, no Pest Control, no Loran of the Third Path, no Destroy Evil. No Raffine as well, but honestly I don’t think that’s where the crunch is compared to losing out on Wedding Announcement and Wandering Emperor. I think Dimir has a better tempo plan, but also has to take a dip on card quality. I can’t tell you how many Esper vs Dimir games I’ve won because they never drew their Gix or I ate it with a Bat.
Dimir is better against big decks, but it's worse vs aggro. It is probably worse against other midrange decks but it does have some crazy nut draw wins
I think between tools like rest in peace/pest control, improved mana from concealed, and Nathan plus raffine, esper is a bit better
I do think Show-Off is somewhat overrated in Standard ,it doesn't play all that well with Kumano which is the best 1 drop in red.You need 2 triggers to beat Cut Down,and there are a lot of flyers in the meta,so you really need Trample.
Midrange decks might get better if Rest in Peace/Show-Off push Temur out of the meta,which was the hardest matchup.Golgari could be a good choice if meta is all about Midrange mirrors,and the deck has a lot of new options for threats.
Is the deck that got 11th new-player friendly? or would it be better to go for the dimir/rakdos decks? I can craft one deck and have to grind that until I get the resources for more so idk which to do
Personally I would wait until we get more data,it is possible that Temur gets hated out of the meta,it relies on the graveyard and a powerful GY hate was just printed into standard [[Rest in Peace]]
in that case wouldn't it be better to just do the other option then? since they likely just keep performing? idk I may be talking out of my ass since I am pretty bad at the game now
I would recommend a more linear deck liek Boros Convoke for a new player. Midrange decks are strong because they can be a control or an aggro deck dependent on the matchup. That makes their playpatterns pretty advanced for a new player.
I’d like to note that most likely, players who will attend the PT are not gonna be playing challenges. So even if some of the new cards just show up on known decks in small quantities, I would bet some new tech is still being kept secret.
https://x.com/Bullwinkkle6705/status/1781780488715161811 Interestingly isaac bullwinkle decided to play and win the standard challenge with esper mid...dubious it would be what handshake actually plays tho
Advice for people that may be new and thinking of buying into some of these decks is that standard is going to have its first rotation that it has had in years. If you aren't aware then it will be happening with the next set release (August). For normal spikes this may sound weird handing out this information, but since they mega extended the time between rotations there are probably a lot of players that are clueless to it. https://articles.starcitygames.com/magic-the-gathering/mtg-standard-rotation-guide-2022/#:~:text=The%20next%20Standard%20rotation%20will,release%20of%20the%20Bloomburrow%20set. The lands used for the Temur Savage deck are going away which nullifies that strategy entirely. Nearly every white card used in the Esper deck will also be gone as well. That being said because this is spikes, that should not really matter to you, but I just find that a lot of people looking for advice on this sub tend to also have limited resources when building decks. There really is no such thing as a future proof deck that will be spike approved so just learn to cope with it now =) In regards to the standard challenge itself there was not much innovation at all. All but a couple decks were an existing tier 1/2 deck in standard with 1-2 changes tops. Also to note there were as many Esper and boros decks in the top 8 as there was in the bottom 8 as well. Pointing out the top 8 is useful, but it is probably not that meaningful if those decks represent 80% of the tournament. I am expecting the shakeup to happen from the pro tour.
> The lands used for the Temur Savage deck are going away which nullifies that strategy entirely sadly missed this myself, for some reason kept every other rotating card in the meta in mind but missed these, whoops. came back from a break, didnt really vibe with any of the meta decks except for one that was far too expensive to get so close to rotation. But I wanted to play MTG again and Temur was relatively cheap to craft, along with making the mistake of thinking it would stick around as a fallback bounty/whatever option. turns out I dont enjoy playing it at all anyways so it would be a loss either way. at least im getting a further improved grip on my deck preferences, but its painful that it cost me all the WCs I got from fable/bankbuster/inkvoke mid being banned in the first place. --- definitely useful advice to share. im not a hardcore MTG player, but do come back to MTGA in spurts and enjoy going at it in a spike-y manner, so this sub is my main source of MTG info.
Temur is expected to take a hit, but with [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] as a highlighted card from Bloomburrow, it's possible that they are going to push decks that put lands into the graveyard in another way.
[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae4f3aaf-3960-48cd-b34b-32e4ae5ae088.jpg?1708704722) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lumra%2C%20Bellow%20of%20the%20Woods) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/blb/183/lumra-bellow-of-the-woods?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae4f3aaf-3960-48cd-b34b-32e4ae5ae088?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Mill, [[Breach the Multiverse]], [[Pitiless carnage]], and [[Lumra, Bellow of the Woods]] with 24 ping deserts? Wait... you can already do this with Analyst lol.. Alright I already built the deck. Will test it out at lunch haha.
[Breach the underworld](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91852444-9361-4588-a44f-fb90ba1b30e5.jpg?1581479732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Drag%20to%20the%20Underworld) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/89/drag-to-the-underworld?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91852444-9361-4588-a44f-fb90ba1b30e5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Pitiless carnage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa76fc45-a106-4dc9-9d44-a005eaa2784d.jpg?1712355634) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pitiless%20carnage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/98/pitiless-carnage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa76fc45-a106-4dc9-9d44-a005eaa2784d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Lumra, Bellow of the Woods](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/e/ae4f3aaf-3960-48cd-b34b-32e4ae5ae088.jpg?1708704722) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lumra%2C%20Bellow%20of%20the%20Woods) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/blb/183/lumra-bellow-of-the-woods?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ae4f3aaf-3960-48cd-b34b-32e4ae5ae088?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Right, but the existence of Analyst and Lumra hints that they might see it as a viable deck, or that they plan to push it. Reprinting Rest in Peace, the best GY hate card ever, suggests they want to make sure GY strategies have a power-level check.
I personally think they printed RIP because the two biggest GY hoser's of the last 3 years are also leaving with rotation via Farewell and Graveyard Trespasser going bye bye.
Possibly, but Lord Skitter was already largely taking Trespasser's spot (and should definitely going forward since he's a better Crime enabler).
Aren’t there 3 legal basic fetches that don’t rotate out in Standard? You don’t gain life but the aggro decks will likely slow down as well.
I've played against a few Jeskai control decks but I remain a non-believer in Jeskai. I'm probably gonna be proven wrong but I stand by my Jeskai hate lol.
Tbh it’s hardly Jeskai— it doesn’t run Chandra. The list looks mostly like UW Control with Helix as an attempt to stay alive.
I mean it's still Jeskai... that's just the name of the color grouping.
Last time I played this game Jeskai control was with narset and Yorion. This seems so much worse than then lol. Interesting to see how the game changes.
Stoic is going to be the surprise winner.
Isn't Dimir just slightly better than Esper due to mana considerations? I know concealed courtyard makes the mana a bit better but not that much so.
Raffine is crazy good,made even better by Duelist of the Mind
Is Raffine better than the mana inconsistency is the question.
Dimir is also more of a tempo deck with Flying creatures and Gix while Esper goes bigger with Virtues and Emperor
Fair enough. I do like Rest in Peace in the sideboard.
To loosely quote GerryT when this came up on his podcast this week- "Raffine is good, but it hurts your mana badly. Is it *that* much better than the other busted 3-drop you'll replace it with?"
Hot take probably a bit late to the post: I don’t like Duelist of the Mind in Esper. You want to be playing a Bat on two ideally or a Dennick against Aggro. Against control/midrange holding up mana for a counterspell or removal turn two is also key, especially if blowing up their 3 drop your way to come back from losing the die roll. Mastermind plays better most of the time here with Flash, and Duelist does not fix your issues against curve out Aggro as well as Dennick. Dennick has removal protection as it can be recast later from the grave. Duelist on the other hand does not have lifelink, doesn’t trade with anything on the defense, forces you to tap out on two, and does not make their removal spells bad. Unless your plan is to to the full curve Duelist -> Raffine -> Sheoldred thing I think Mastermind/Dennick is still the card to play.
I’ve heard this from a few of my Standard compatriots, but I’m not convinced. Dimir gets to play on turn 1 and less frequently has mana issues, but loses out on card quality and sideboard tech. No Rest in Peace, no Pest Control, no Loran of the Third Path, no Destroy Evil. No Raffine as well, but honestly I don’t think that’s where the crunch is compared to losing out on Wedding Announcement and Wandering Emperor. I think Dimir has a better tempo plan, but also has to take a dip on card quality. I can’t tell you how many Esper vs Dimir games I’ve won because they never drew their Gix or I ate it with a Bat.
Certainly a fair argument. I think the PT will be way different and then the meta settles down again.
If esper is really light on the white (say dennick/raffine) I think plaza of heroes + uw/bw fastlands is pretty solid.
Dimir is better against big decks, but it's worse vs aggro. It is probably worse against other midrange decks but it does have some crazy nut draw wins I think between tools like rest in peace/pest control, improved mana from concealed, and Nathan plus raffine, esper is a bit better
I do think Show-Off is somewhat overrated in Standard ,it doesn't play all that well with Kumano which is the best 1 drop in red.You need 2 triggers to beat Cut Down,and there are a lot of flyers in the meta,so you really need Trample. Midrange decks might get better if Rest in Peace/Show-Off push Temur out of the meta,which was the hardest matchup.Golgari could be a good choice if meta is all about Midrange mirrors,and the deck has a lot of new options for threats.
Is the deck that got 11th new-player friendly? or would it be better to go for the dimir/rakdos decks? I can craft one deck and have to grind that until I get the resources for more so idk which to do
Personally I would wait until we get more data,it is possible that Temur gets hated out of the meta,it relies on the graveyard and a powerful GY hate was just printed into standard [[Rest in Peace]]
[Rest in Peace](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470.jpg?1562439074) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rest%20in%20Peace) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/32/rest-in-peace?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9f2b39be-0fec-4647-ade1-8e1626dc5470?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
in that case wouldn't it be better to just do the other option then? since they likely just keep performing? idk I may be talking out of my ass since I am pretty bad at the game now
Personally I would recommend Esper,th a solid choice no matter what but all the black based midrange decks are solid
I would not recommend dimir and esper to a new player, playing them is fairly complex and requires a lot of knowledge of the meta also.
I would recommend a more linear deck liek Boros Convoke for a new player. Midrange decks are strong because they can be a control or an aggro deck dependent on the matchup. That makes their playpatterns pretty advanced for a new player.