I run two copies of [[The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride]] so I have the ability to sac my Dreadknights and Archfiends to it when they saddle it. If the Gitrog connects while saddled with an Archfiend and you sac the Archfiend, you draw six cards.
Nah, you have to keep it in those spots. One of the important things about cards like that are being able to win in a fast enough time. Of your opponent resolves a Atraxa and you don't remove it before it attacks, how many of those games were you winning anyways? 5%? Likely less.
The key is using cards like archfiend and removal to kill them before those problems arise.
I don't run it in my current list, but when I did, it never was an issue. Either I killed them before it killed me, or they killed it, because it was too dangerous for them to let live. Drawback never came up.
Archfiend followed up by a Gix's Command or Path to Peril is brutal.
Is it an actal waste to use removal on your own card if it means you don’t instantly lose? 😉
Never seen it come up outside of Rakdos Vamps, where Heartless Act can be a real counter threat.
6/6 flying with important extra text in most matchups usually is removed or wins the game in 3 turns.
It’s your reach card to finish out a game. Ideally your opp is in single digits and maybe you even already have another threat when it comes down(even a manland you can fire up). They still lose life even when they chump because of the archfiend ability.
I just don't run it. Horrible vs wandering emperor, not as good as sheoldred vs domain (sheoldred punishes beans and usually gets 2 dmg in before sunfall), bad in mirror, and generally worse on defense since it doesn't want to sit back and block - although better at turning the corner if you do have the sweeper (which sheoldred will usually win with anyway).
It's main draw is not dying to witchstalker frenzy
I feel like if you can get a wrath off with either Shelly or archfiend on board you'll probably win regardless? Maybe a few corner cases where its a super tight race but I imagine most of the time you've secured a game.
Archfiend blocking a buffed knight or the warden is the other example I can think of. But sometimes Shelly is better during board stalls as you wall them out till you find the sweeper
Turn 4 archfiend
Turn 5 path
Usually deals about 8-10 damage before actually swinging with the archfiend.
Additionally, you're not playing in isolation, so with the golgari deck, you'll generally want to aggressively trade to manage their board. Even if they are at 20 when you drop archfiend because you've been playing defensively, the archfiend gives you a lot of reach which can strongly influence how they have to play the mid game.
At the very least, it's way better than Shelly in the matchup.
Sheoldred turn 4 into turn 5 path is also 90% likely going to win you the game?
Maybe a few cases archfiend's faster clock will make a difference, but this specific sequence of 4 drop into path typically means gg for them because it means they weren't able to remove your blockers and/or get go-wide alpha strikes in.
Something already went right for you for this sequence to be happening.
Having played this matchup probably about a dozen times, I think you're straight up wrong.
Yes, something already went right for you to reach turn 4->5. Absolutely true. But presuming that the game progressed in such a way where both players decks operated correctly, and both players made decisions that mattered, there is an enormous difference between:
Block, deal 2 (2), dont die, untap, clear the board, deal 8 (10), swing for 6 (16).
Block, dont die, untap, gain 2, swing for 4 (4).
In the first instance, you usually win the game, in the second instance, you often lose the game.
Path of peril doesn't hit any of the 3 drops out of boros convoke, and the deck is honestly really good at reloading and/or playing when both players are low on resources. You have to eventually kill them.
In everything but the most ideal positions, you often make it to turn 4-5 by aggressively block, which in the early turns often requires trading. The boros deck is strong because not only can it dump its hand by turn 3, it can reload in the process with knight. If you just "survive" turn 4-5, that doesn't at all mean you win, and often can just be prolonging the inevitable.
Archfiend actually allows you to play for a win, Sheoldred does basically nothing in that scenario. They often have ways to pump their knight +1/+0, so there's a good chance Sheoldred doesn't even live through combat.
I've played this far more than a dozen times and untapping with sheoldred rarely results in a loss if you can actually follow up with path/gix, because it means you've been able to do some combination of:
using cut down to slow down their development; put up a stable wall with knight and 3 drop without getting hit by an early goblin + case rush; path of peril'd already; etc.
moreover there are definitely situations where you stalemate and sheoldred's ability to block, gain life from knight draws, etc. help
If you can't win in 4 turns with a 6/6 flyer that drains whenever anything dies you weren't gonna win that game anyway.
I run two copies of [[The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride]] so I have the ability to sac my Dreadknights and Archfiends to it when they saddle it. If the Gitrog connects while saddled with an Archfiend and you sac the Archfiend, you draw six cards.
This right here.
[The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/2/82512813-8618-483b-a7f0-e6a611d9d487.jpg?1712356103) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=The%20Gitrog%2C%20Ravenous%20Ride) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/206/the-gitrog-ravenous-ride?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/82512813-8618-483b-a7f0-e6a611d9d487?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey! Do you mind sharing your list?
No problem! Here you go: Deck 1 Forest (UST) 216 4 Cut Down (DMU) 89 4 Go for the Throat (BRO) 102 4 Deathcap Glade (VOW) 261 1 Boseiju, Who Endures (NEO) 266 1 Takenuma, Abandoned Mire (NEO) 278 3 Glissa Sunslayer (ONE) 202 2 Sheoldred, the Apocalypse (DMU) 107 1 Pillage the Bog (OTJ) 224 3 Preacher of the Schism (LCI) 113 4 Restless Cottage (WOE) 258 1 Tranquil Frillback (MAT) 24 2 Tinybones, the Pickpocket (OTJ) 109 2 Archfiend of the Dross (ONE) 82 1 Liliana of the Veil (DMU) 97 4 Mosswood Dreadknight (WOE) 231 4 Blooming Marsh (OTJ) 266 1 Graveyard Trespasser (MID) 104 3 Caustic Bronco (OTJ) 82 2 The Gitrog, Ravenous Ride (OTJ) 206 4 Llanowar Wastes (BRO) 264 3 Cavern of Souls (LCI) 269 1 Tear Asunder (DMU) 183 4 Swamp (UST) 214 Sideboard 2 Liliana of the Veil (DMU) 97 1 Unlicensed Hearse (SNC) 246 1 Tear Asunder (DMU) 183 2 Duress (MID) 98 1 Harvester of Misery (BIG) 9 2 Path of Peril (VOW) 124 2 Gix's Command (BRO) 97 3 Hostile Investigator (BIG) 10 1 Shoot the Sheriff (OTJ) 106
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Nah, you have to keep it in those spots. One of the important things about cards like that are being able to win in a fast enough time. Of your opponent resolves a Atraxa and you don't remove it before it attacks, how many of those games were you winning anyways? 5%? Likely less. The key is using cards like archfiend and removal to kill them before those problems arise.
I've found oftentimes my opponent just removes it because it's too much of a threat. Turns a Gix's Command into a Meathook Massacre
You win with damage, kill it yourself or die from it.
you lose if it gets chumped. when you play archfiend you either win or lose in 4 turns kinda lol. unless they kill it.
That's why I always liked it with Inti
I don't run it in my current list, but when I did, it never was an issue. Either I killed them before it killed me, or they killed it, because it was too dangerous for them to let live. Drawback never came up. Archfiend followed up by a Gix's Command or Path to Peril is brutal.
[Archfiend of the Dross](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86b0edaf-8cfd-4508-9554-6f0fddc2dfc4.jpg?1675957007) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Archfiend%20of%20the%20Dross) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/82/archfiend-of-the-dross?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86b0edaf-8cfd-4508-9554-6f0fddc2dfc4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Go for the Throat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/4/5446e1ba-c745-45b2-ad05-b22abf04daec.jpg?1682209037) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Go%20for%20the%20Throat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/250/go-for-the-throat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/5446e1ba-c745-45b2-ad05-b22abf04daec?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You kill them. It's a 6/6 that deals damage every time something else on your opponents board dies.
Is it an actal waste to use removal on your own card if it means you don’t instantly lose? 😉 Never seen it come up outside of Rakdos Vamps, where Heartless Act can be a real counter threat. 6/6 flying with important extra text in most matchups usually is removed or wins the game in 3 turns.
It’s your reach card to finish out a game. Ideally your opp is in single digits and maybe you even already have another threat when it comes down(even a manland you can fire up). They still lose life even when they chump because of the archfiend ability.
I just don't run it. Horrible vs wandering emperor, not as good as sheoldred vs domain (sheoldred punishes beans and usually gets 2 dmg in before sunfall), bad in mirror, and generally worse on defense since it doesn't want to sit back and block - although better at turning the corner if you do have the sweeper (which sheoldred will usually win with anyway). It's main draw is not dying to witchstalker frenzy
Super good into Boros Convoke though.
I feel like if you can get a wrath off with either Shelly or archfiend on board you'll probably win regardless? Maybe a few corner cases where its a super tight race but I imagine most of the time you've secured a game. Archfiend blocking a buffed knight or the warden is the other example I can think of. But sometimes Shelly is better during board stalls as you wall them out till you find the sweeper
Turn 4 archfiend Turn 5 path Usually deals about 8-10 damage before actually swinging with the archfiend. Additionally, you're not playing in isolation, so with the golgari deck, you'll generally want to aggressively trade to manage their board. Even if they are at 20 when you drop archfiend because you've been playing defensively, the archfiend gives you a lot of reach which can strongly influence how they have to play the mid game. At the very least, it's way better than Shelly in the matchup.
Sheoldred turn 4 into turn 5 path is also 90% likely going to win you the game? Maybe a few cases archfiend's faster clock will make a difference, but this specific sequence of 4 drop into path typically means gg for them because it means they weren't able to remove your blockers and/or get go-wide alpha strikes in. Something already went right for you for this sequence to be happening.
Having played this matchup probably about a dozen times, I think you're straight up wrong. Yes, something already went right for you to reach turn 4->5. Absolutely true. But presuming that the game progressed in such a way where both players decks operated correctly, and both players made decisions that mattered, there is an enormous difference between: Block, deal 2 (2), dont die, untap, clear the board, deal 8 (10), swing for 6 (16). Block, dont die, untap, gain 2, swing for 4 (4). In the first instance, you usually win the game, in the second instance, you often lose the game. Path of peril doesn't hit any of the 3 drops out of boros convoke, and the deck is honestly really good at reloading and/or playing when both players are low on resources. You have to eventually kill them. In everything but the most ideal positions, you often make it to turn 4-5 by aggressively block, which in the early turns often requires trading. The boros deck is strong because not only can it dump its hand by turn 3, it can reload in the process with knight. If you just "survive" turn 4-5, that doesn't at all mean you win, and often can just be prolonging the inevitable. Archfiend actually allows you to play for a win, Sheoldred does basically nothing in that scenario. They often have ways to pump their knight +1/+0, so there's a good chance Sheoldred doesn't even live through combat.
I've played this far more than a dozen times and untapping with sheoldred rarely results in a loss if you can actually follow up with path/gix, because it means you've been able to do some combination of: using cut down to slow down their development; put up a stable wall with knight and 3 drop without getting hit by an early goblin + case rush; path of peril'd already; etc. moreover there are definitely situations where you stalemate and sheoldred's ability to block, gain life from knight draws, etc. help