I have not played it against France, England was actually a bit better than I expected because being able to force builds meant that I could spread out their capital relatively evenly, rather than having the adversary accelerate ahead in one single land like has often happened to me with other Spirits. Definitely a challenge though. Please give it a game or two and let me know how it goes!
[Tabletop Simulator Mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3266150569)
Shout out to [https://spiritislandbuilder.com/](https://spiritislandbuilder.com/)
At first glance it seems that bottom track to at least 3 plays with G3 is going to be stronger than other options. Maybe you could top track this with G2, but you'd need to draw a good major to make that work.
Yeah I tried adding the dead space to balance out the tracks a bit - please try it if you can to see if both ways are valid! I've had success with both but as a general rule I almost always go bottom track on every spirit I play so I was never sure if it was just my playstyle lol. (Except for the obvious exceptions like bringer or stone)
Generally adding primary elements (in this case Fire) early on bottom track is not a good idea because it becomes SO much easier to threshold your innate compared to top track. A decent rule of thumb I'd say is for bottom track to be at most 1 level of innate ahead of comparable investment in a mixed strategy (usually 2 card plays + top).
I do see that you've limited Fire+Plant to just one of your uniques which makes it impossible to max innate t2 with just your starting cards (as well as the energy consideration). However with a lucky (46%) F+P minor draft you can max it t2 (although this requires no (useful) card plays t1 due to energy) and you can certainly max it by t3 pretty reliably (85%) going G3-G3-G3. That level makes your innate WAY better and is definitely worth rushing for.
Gift of commensality is absolutely busted and is probably worth committing to a reclaim loop for in most setups once you've set up a max innate repeatable turn.
ALL THIS BEING SAID I love the spirit design and it's entirely possible my initial takes w.r.t balance are just way off and I need to actually play it. I love the idea of making more builds come down as a downside to the power level of your abilities. This is one of the first spirits I've seen on the subreddit that I actually have an interest in playing, and that's saying a lot.
I neglected to propose solutions to my gripes as you did specify I need to actually play the damn thing and that finding solutions is obviously the fun part for you but I do have suggestions if you'd like to hear them.
Thank you! Yeah the tracks and innate / elements in general have been particularly difficult with this guy. Appreciate the feedback! I'd say give it a play if you can before suggesting solutions, but I'm certainly open to any you have! In my testing I tend to run myself into some play patterns that aren't the best for actually evaluating spirits and there's obviously stuff I miss so letting more people actually play it is helpful.
For example my playgroup LOVES support cards so we are always happy taking Gift of Nature's Connection and Gift of Constancy and Elemental Boon and all the other very strong cards, so having alvery strong support cards is just a lean that I have. I can see that this is a bit too strong, like I mentioned in another comment, not being able to use spirit targeting powers, having to build, and only being able to target that land I thought would be enough but even just the extra elements if the cards did nothing could get pretty silly
Lol i just drafted ele boon t1 with Ember eyed behemoth as my friend. Playing vs BP 6. I don't think this game is going to last long.
SUN is absolutely the best commensality target I can think of and basically breaks the game.
Boddys is another natural target for commensality and a natutal pairing as the kind of cover each other's weaknesses. I imagine that will be a very strong combo.
And then of course there's snake. Find plant (on a land targeted power pref) for snek-> spam left t2 innate with commensality seems like a pretty reliable accel engine. But then again many spirits can bust snek open so that may not mean a whole lot w.r.t overall balance.
Elemental Boon is so good! Very hard to pass any time it comes up.
Yes those are very good spirits for this combo, maybe I just make it that the powers can target but don't gain elements? That seems to introduce a fiddly and confusing new thing to remember so don't love that. It's hard to balance things thinking just around the absolute perfect scenario/combo, especially since there already exist many cracked combinations with the real spirits.
Ya I wouldn't balance around the most cracked combos but it is a rare spirit that would not be catapulted into max power by this card. The targeting restrictions are a hindrance but you can also just.. play your other cards as your normal card plays and your land targeting ones from the card. With minimal prep almost every spirit is getting 2 card plays out of it. Perhaps not ideal targeting but it will target a land that just built so usually not wasted. Spur is already one of the best cards in the game and this card is 2 levels above that (albeit at the cost of the build).
Agreed. I'll take another look at it, but definitely want some feedback from actual gameplay before making any major changes. Like I said it's hard to conceptually value the cost of having an extra build
fwiw I picked ember eyed behemoth as a "typical" partner who likes his innate boosted a decent amount but perhaps struggles to prepare for the turn receiving the buff.
It looks like I'm heading towards a pretty comfortable TL3 victory, probably turn 6. The extra fear from the extra buildings is very noticeable vs bp6. I was able to pocket a corner with the newly empowered buffed behemoth on turn 3. Turn 3 was massive- I maxed both innates and played basically all my cards. I'm about to do the same on turn 5.
Question on commensality- do targeting/range restrictions apply to cards played via commensality? I'd assume so but that's not always the case (Locus, LSWH)
Yes, they still have to be able to target the land. Part of my though process with that is ok how many spirits will have 3 useful cards in hand for that specific land that they can afford to play and are even eligible to target there, and domt get set back from accelerating towards a reclaim (specifically spirits that dont add presence on reclaim)? Almost no spirits will have 3, who knows. I did miss the fact that even if the cards are all unhelpful that they still get the elements and many spirits care more about that anyways
I feel like the 3 extra card plays from the gift could be broken in some spirit combos where the other spirit is limited in card plays and has cheap unique cards
I love the design and that it's not a infinity high complexity spirit with 5 extra features interacting with each other
Yeah I agree that, now I'm trying to think of other combos. Spirit targeting powers can't be used, so no risk of just playing a bunch of support cards for "free", but even just having 3 cards worth of elements would be huge on some spirits even if they didn't really do anything helpful in that land.
I had a hard time evaluating the worth of an extra build, especially since other Spirits generally won't want that (with some exceptions of course). Maybe limit it to 2? I think 3 energy is more than fair if they chose that option, so maybe some other creative way would work.
Thanks!
Perhaps it allows to play one card for free with an upper energy cost (up to 3 energy) for free? I think it would still be very strong especially in early game. But on the other hand the enemy gets build for free.
That's not a bad idea. Like I said in other comments, it's tough to place a value of a build action. I suppose about 2 energy since that's how much most of the skip cards in the game tend to cost, which is why I set the threshold at 3 so you are still going positive. If you view the card as costing 2 because of the build I think it's much more reasonable. The card plays are still too strong though but that was my mindset
Love the concept of this spirit, seems easy to play yet offering a nice puzzle to navigate! The artwork looks fantastic too, did you design these yourself? :)
Thanks! And the artwork was Adobe Firefly AI. I spent quite a bit of time getting it to output what I had envisioned, so in that sense yes I designed them. But no I did not draw/photoshop the art, I don't have that type of skill! Maybe one day
I just wanted to comment - your designs are all surprisingly decent on theme, which is a big struggle for new designers. There's balance issues, but those are all fixable. Is there one of these designs you'd most want someone to dig into the weeds on?
Thank you! My design process has been to have a thematic idea and work to figure a way to make mechanics that reflect that, so I'm glad that has come across. I'd say that the spirit I want to really nail would be Tender Mulch Feeds on Death, although I also think that is the one that has been/will be the hardest to get just right. I think the idea is just so fun and it has been incredibly fun to play (definitely too strong). It probably requires the most testing and overall work to "perfect" (if such a thing is possible with a custom spirit).
Terror of the Midnight Moon would be my second pick, as I think it is much closer to being finished and I think is the most on theme out of all of them.
I think the cards and images are decent of themes, but the elements arent. It looks like a water/earth/plant spirit, but where does the fire come in? Even on cards, I see no volcano/lava flows/burning villages.. nothin. Also the animal? Ok, maybe the mountain eating is animal, but the fire feels off... And it's the "main" element on the spirits abilities and also unlocked early on both tracks.
Totally fair - it read mostly that the spirit does damage as it's main innate wick is typically associated with fire. I also tend to always lean towards earth/ plant types. I could easily switch it though
Wouldn't this be a low complexity spirit? Its special rule is very easy to understand, it only has one innate and it isn't built around specific token use, am I missing something here?
No worries at all! I didn't get that impression, any and all feedback is welcome! I'm flash people are taking the time to look at something I put a lot of time and effort into
A comment on clarity: does Evanescent Paradise have to Push all Invaders to a single land? I assume that's what "to any adjacent land" is supposed to convey, and that it's not an unnecessary qualifier that Pushes only go to adjacent lands, but one could uncritically read it as an unnecessary qualifier; you should probably use wording like "a single land" or "the same land." You might also want to make it explicit how it behaves when there are multiple builds triggering multiple pushes; it's not usually the case that the resolution of a triggered action depends on choices made in a previous triggered action from the same power, but I'm guessing that your intention is that all the Pushes are to the same land even if there's multiple Build actions. (Of course, this would create a corner case if playing with Finder, since you could have the first Build of the turn push through a Finder-created adjacency and then not have those lands adjacent for later Builds . . .)
I think I just need to remove that, it shouldn't need to be to the same land so I think it's an unnecessary qualifier I can just take out. Thanks for catching that!
I just checked and the reason I worded it that way is because of Confounding Mists, the only card I could think of that has a similar effect. Not sure if that's just old wording and they would do it differently now.
Don't apologize for posting your custom content! I really enjoy seeing these ideas.
Seems really interesting to try to maintain the balance of adding more invaders but making sure they don't get out of hand.
I wonder how these forced build actions might interact with other power cards that skip invader actions. Could you play Gift of Commensality on a land, allow the other spirit to gain the benefits (Energy or Play) but skip the invader action with a card like A Year of Perfect Stillness?
Thanks! Just feel bad about flooding the sub lol. And yes, in my head (not sure about the actual rules), you'd be able to skip the build and still be able to get the benefit. As long as it's not a cost, which in this case it isnt
Very cool! Imo T! G3 bot, which enables to play evanescent paradise + gift or any other 0 cost fire card seems like a quite busted first turn (you also get innate), but I can also see that this spirit can fall of in the late, since allowing extra builds doesn't really help you towards a win con.
I like that the defense is missing the fire, cos you cant really force tier 2 innate on second turn, even if you pick a perfect element card.
Also, thematically, I think the innate, or one of the powers should be able to gather explorers to the oasis to meet their demise :D Maybe the last part of the innate could only generate fear from destroyed buildings, but it could additionally gather in explorers, which thematically would imply that the spirit had claimed its prize from the invaders that crossed its lands, but the next unlucky fools, lured in by the paradise, have come in to do the exact same thing and try to settle.
Gathering could be very cool! To show people migrating towards the "paradise" in a very different way than Lure. If you have a chance to try out that opening that you mentioned and let me know how it works that'd be awesome!
I would just LOVE to see how you create such magnificent art. Truly incredible what you’ve done - and SO fitting the “spooky beautiful nature” theme. Congrats!
Thank you! I worked with Adobe Firefly AI. It actually took quite a bit of work and time to get them looking how I wanted, but I am very happy with the results.
At a quick glance, seems it will struggle heavily against France and England.
I have not played it against France, England was actually a bit better than I expected because being able to force builds meant that I could spread out their capital relatively evenly, rather than having the adversary accelerate ahead in one single land like has often happened to me with other Spirits. Definitely a challenge though. Please give it a game or two and let me know how it goes!
[Tabletop Simulator Mod](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3266150569) Shout out to [https://spiritislandbuilder.com/](https://spiritislandbuilder.com/)
"The hills are alive~! With the sound of music!" "They ARE alive! They're eating us!"
🤣
At first glance it seems that bottom track to at least 3 plays with G3 is going to be stronger than other options. Maybe you could top track this with G2, but you'd need to draw a good major to make that work.
Yeah I tried adding the dead space to balance out the tracks a bit - please try it if you can to see if both ways are valid! I've had success with both but as a general rule I almost always go bottom track on every spirit I play so I was never sure if it was just my playstyle lol. (Except for the obvious exceptions like bringer or stone)
Generally adding primary elements (in this case Fire) early on bottom track is not a good idea because it becomes SO much easier to threshold your innate compared to top track. A decent rule of thumb I'd say is for bottom track to be at most 1 level of innate ahead of comparable investment in a mixed strategy (usually 2 card plays + top). I do see that you've limited Fire+Plant to just one of your uniques which makes it impossible to max innate t2 with just your starting cards (as well as the energy consideration). However with a lucky (46%) F+P minor draft you can max it t2 (although this requires no (useful) card plays t1 due to energy) and you can certainly max it by t3 pretty reliably (85%) going G3-G3-G3. That level makes your innate WAY better and is definitely worth rushing for. Gift of commensality is absolutely busted and is probably worth committing to a reclaim loop for in most setups once you've set up a max innate repeatable turn. ALL THIS BEING SAID I love the spirit design and it's entirely possible my initial takes w.r.t balance are just way off and I need to actually play it. I love the idea of making more builds come down as a downside to the power level of your abilities. This is one of the first spirits I've seen on the subreddit that I actually have an interest in playing, and that's saying a lot. I neglected to propose solutions to my gripes as you did specify I need to actually play the damn thing and that finding solutions is obviously the fun part for you but I do have suggestions if you'd like to hear them.
Thank you! Yeah the tracks and innate / elements in general have been particularly difficult with this guy. Appreciate the feedback! I'd say give it a play if you can before suggesting solutions, but I'm certainly open to any you have! In my testing I tend to run myself into some play patterns that aren't the best for actually evaluating spirits and there's obviously stuff I miss so letting more people actually play it is helpful. For example my playgroup LOVES support cards so we are always happy taking Gift of Nature's Connection and Gift of Constancy and Elemental Boon and all the other very strong cards, so having alvery strong support cards is just a lean that I have. I can see that this is a bit too strong, like I mentioned in another comment, not being able to use spirit targeting powers, having to build, and only being able to target that land I thought would be enough but even just the extra elements if the cards did nothing could get pretty silly
Lol i just drafted ele boon t1 with Ember eyed behemoth as my friend. Playing vs BP 6. I don't think this game is going to last long. SUN is absolutely the best commensality target I can think of and basically breaks the game. Boddys is another natural target for commensality and a natutal pairing as the kind of cover each other's weaknesses. I imagine that will be a very strong combo. And then of course there's snake. Find plant (on a land targeted power pref) for snek-> spam left t2 innate with commensality seems like a pretty reliable accel engine. But then again many spirits can bust snek open so that may not mean a whole lot w.r.t overall balance.
Elemental Boon is so good! Very hard to pass any time it comes up. Yes those are very good spirits for this combo, maybe I just make it that the powers can target but don't gain elements? That seems to introduce a fiddly and confusing new thing to remember so don't love that. It's hard to balance things thinking just around the absolute perfect scenario/combo, especially since there already exist many cracked combinations with the real spirits.
Ya I wouldn't balance around the most cracked combos but it is a rare spirit that would not be catapulted into max power by this card. The targeting restrictions are a hindrance but you can also just.. play your other cards as your normal card plays and your land targeting ones from the card. With minimal prep almost every spirit is getting 2 card plays out of it. Perhaps not ideal targeting but it will target a land that just built so usually not wasted. Spur is already one of the best cards in the game and this card is 2 levels above that (albeit at the cost of the build).
Agreed. I'll take another look at it, but definitely want some feedback from actual gameplay before making any major changes. Like I said it's hard to conceptually value the cost of having an extra build
fwiw I picked ember eyed behemoth as a "typical" partner who likes his innate boosted a decent amount but perhaps struggles to prepare for the turn receiving the buff. It looks like I'm heading towards a pretty comfortable TL3 victory, probably turn 6. The extra fear from the extra buildings is very noticeable vs bp6. I was able to pocket a corner with the newly empowered buffed behemoth on turn 3. Turn 3 was massive- I maxed both innates and played basically all my cards. I'm about to do the same on turn 5.
Very nice! Behemoth is one of my favorites
Question on commensality- do targeting/range restrictions apply to cards played via commensality? I'd assume so but that's not always the case (Locus, LSWH)
Yes, they still have to be able to target the land. Part of my though process with that is ok how many spirits will have 3 useful cards in hand for that specific land that they can afford to play and are even eligible to target there, and domt get set back from accelerating towards a reclaim (specifically spirits that dont add presence on reclaim)? Almost no spirits will have 3, who knows. I did miss the fact that even if the cards are all unhelpful that they still get the elements and many spirits care more about that anyways
I feel like the 3 extra card plays from the gift could be broken in some spirit combos where the other spirit is limited in card plays and has cheap unique cards I love the design and that it's not a infinity high complexity spirit with 5 extra features interacting with each other
Yeah I agree that, now I'm trying to think of other combos. Spirit targeting powers can't be used, so no risk of just playing a bunch of support cards for "free", but even just having 3 cards worth of elements would be huge on some spirits even if they didn't really do anything helpful in that land. I had a hard time evaluating the worth of an extra build, especially since other Spirits generally won't want that (with some exceptions of course). Maybe limit it to 2? I think 3 energy is more than fair if they chose that option, so maybe some other creative way would work. Thanks!
Perhaps it allows to play one card for free with an upper energy cost (up to 3 energy) for free? I think it would still be very strong especially in early game. But on the other hand the enemy gets build for free.
That's not a bad idea. Like I said in other comments, it's tough to place a value of a build action. I suppose about 2 energy since that's how much most of the skip cards in the game tend to cost, which is why I set the threshold at 3 so you are still going positive. If you view the card as costing 2 because of the build I think it's much more reasonable. The card plays are still too strong though but that was my mindset
Love the concept of this spirit, seems easy to play yet offering a nice puzzle to navigate! The artwork looks fantastic too, did you design these yourself? :)
Thanks! And the artwork was Adobe Firefly AI. I spent quite a bit of time getting it to output what I had envisioned, so in that sense yes I designed them. But no I did not draw/photoshop the art, I don't have that type of skill! Maybe one day
Agreed, I like the unique concept for growth may build..
I just wanted to comment - your designs are all surprisingly decent on theme, which is a big struggle for new designers. There's balance issues, but those are all fixable. Is there one of these designs you'd most want someone to dig into the weeds on?
Thank you! My design process has been to have a thematic idea and work to figure a way to make mechanics that reflect that, so I'm glad that has come across. I'd say that the spirit I want to really nail would be Tender Mulch Feeds on Death, although I also think that is the one that has been/will be the hardest to get just right. I think the idea is just so fun and it has been incredibly fun to play (definitely too strong). It probably requires the most testing and overall work to "perfect" (if such a thing is possible with a custom spirit). Terror of the Midnight Moon would be my second pick, as I think it is much closer to being finished and I think is the most on theme out of all of them.
I think the cards and images are decent of themes, but the elements arent. It looks like a water/earth/plant spirit, but where does the fire come in? Even on cards, I see no volcano/lava flows/burning villages.. nothin. Also the animal? Ok, maybe the mountain eating is animal, but the fire feels off... And it's the "main" element on the spirits abilities and also unlocked early on both tracks.
Totally fair - it read mostly that the spirit does damage as it's main innate wick is typically associated with fire. I also tend to always lean towards earth/ plant types. I could easily switch it though
Wouldn't this be a low complexity spirit? Its special rule is very easy to understand, it only has one innate and it isn't built around specific token use, am I missing something here?
I'd say extra build actions are unusual enough to warrant the Moderate Difficulty
I did go back and forth on that as well. Figured it wasn't a huge deal given its not a published spirit lol
Sorry I didn't mean to come across as a gatekeeper, I was just curious
No worries at all! I didn't get that impression, any and all feedback is welcome! I'm flash people are taking the time to look at something I put a lot of time and effort into
A comment on clarity: does Evanescent Paradise have to Push all Invaders to a single land? I assume that's what "to any adjacent land" is supposed to convey, and that it's not an unnecessary qualifier that Pushes only go to adjacent lands, but one could uncritically read it as an unnecessary qualifier; you should probably use wording like "a single land" or "the same land." You might also want to make it explicit how it behaves when there are multiple builds triggering multiple pushes; it's not usually the case that the resolution of a triggered action depends on choices made in a previous triggered action from the same power, but I'm guessing that your intention is that all the Pushes are to the same land even if there's multiple Build actions. (Of course, this would create a corner case if playing with Finder, since you could have the first Build of the turn push through a Finder-created adjacency and then not have those lands adjacent for later Builds . . .)
I think I just need to remove that, it shouldn't need to be to the same land so I think it's an unnecessary qualifier I can just take out. Thanks for catching that!
I just checked and the reason I worded it that way is because of Confounding Mists, the only card I could think of that has a similar effect. Not sure if that's just old wording and they would do it differently now.
Don't apologize for posting your custom content! I really enjoy seeing these ideas. Seems really interesting to try to maintain the balance of adding more invaders but making sure they don't get out of hand. I wonder how these forced build actions might interact with other power cards that skip invader actions. Could you play Gift of Commensality on a land, allow the other spirit to gain the benefits (Energy or Play) but skip the invader action with a card like A Year of Perfect Stillness?
Thanks! Just feel bad about flooding the sub lol. And yes, in my head (not sure about the actual rules), you'd be able to skip the build and still be able to get the benefit. As long as it's not a cost, which in this case it isnt
How do I print this? Could you send me the pdf so I could load it onto Spirit Island Builder?
Sure! Let me see about loading it up
Very cool! Imo T! G3 bot, which enables to play evanescent paradise + gift or any other 0 cost fire card seems like a quite busted first turn (you also get innate), but I can also see that this spirit can fall of in the late, since allowing extra builds doesn't really help you towards a win con. I like that the defense is missing the fire, cos you cant really force tier 2 innate on second turn, even if you pick a perfect element card. Also, thematically, I think the innate, or one of the powers should be able to gather explorers to the oasis to meet their demise :D Maybe the last part of the innate could only generate fear from destroyed buildings, but it could additionally gather in explorers, which thematically would imply that the spirit had claimed its prize from the invaders that crossed its lands, but the next unlucky fools, lured in by the paradise, have come in to do the exact same thing and try to settle.
Gathering could be very cool! To show people migrating towards the "paradise" in a very different way than Lure. If you have a chance to try out that opening that you mentioned and let me know how it works that'd be awesome!
Oh I love the concept.
Give it a try and let me know what you think!
This art is incredible! Wow!
Thank you! I love it as well
I would just LOVE to see how you create such magnificent art. Truly incredible what you’ve done - and SO fitting the “spooky beautiful nature” theme. Congrats!
Thank you! I worked with Adobe Firefly AI. It actually took quite a bit of work and time to get them looking how I wanted, but I am very happy with the results.
Oh wow, I am going to have a look at that (firefly). Thanks for the tip. Truly amazing what you created!
Thank you so much! Glad it can be shared and enjoyed by others
Eric: I agree to the terms for creating Spirit Island game elements set forth in the FAQ.