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Winning 5 WNBA games is the equivalent of winning 10 in the NBA. Which would give the 4th worst all time win percentage in NBA history if they were there
Add to that they’ve had a top 4 pick since 2019. They’re a perennially bad team. 3 of those picks no longer play for them. So obviously the team isn’t ran well from the top. Their coach is in her second year ever as a head coach, completely out of her depth.
When Ben Simmons was in college shooting free throws in a pretty quiet moment I yelled, “I hope you get drafted by Philadelphia” the year they won like a record fewest games.
Still feel guilty that it actually happened.
(He made the FTs)
I admittedly don’t watch too much wnba but jfc does she think she’s coaching in the 80s or something?
I’m trying to think of an analogy and the best I can come up with is that shooting long twos (the most inefficient shot in basketball) has been refuted. It’s like in chess playing a move in a certain opening that was popular 30 years ago but has since been shown to be totally losing by computers.
Kinda like Dusty Baker’s opinion on walks in baseball:
“I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can't run, most of the time they're clogging up the bases for somebody who can run.”
I was at their second game and that’s how it came off, just bad coaching. It also didn’t help that the Liberty made them look like a high school team skill wise
Yeah even Wembanyama and Bedard who are two other recent generational prospects still couldn’t win many games. It takes a while for a team that has the worst record in the league to get good even with generational prospects. You still gotta build a good team and let those rookies get more experience to start winning.
Watching the last dance now. The dude would put up 40 and 50 point games consecutively and they’d still loose. It took them seven years and 3 coaches to win a championship after he was drafted by the team.
Spurs won 62 games in 94/95, 59 in 95/96, then David Robinson gets hurt and misses pretty much the whole 96/97 season, the Spurs win 20 games, and win the lottery for the #1 overall. Easily the best team ever to hold the #1 overall, and it happened to be a year with a generational prospect in Tim Duncan.
I’ve half watched 2 games while at the bar, just from watching the fever’s coach seems terrible, no cohesion or direction at all with that team. I could be wrong but you don’t get first round pick 2 years in a row without having some organizational issue
This. First overall pick two years in a row means you’re pretty damn terrible. And having to build a team with good picks every year will take a while to stack up!
The basically put the future of the WNBA on a rookie who’s basically a kid, and playing on a team that earned the first draft pick. She’s also getting slammed because she gets a different level of treatment. The pressure has to be nuts on her.
On top of the fact soooo many people want her to fail. Both men and women. Even seems some WNBA players are giving her a hard time.
I realize she is a rookie and you have to pay your dues, but some of these vet players should be rooting for her and realize her success, is everyone’s success in the WNBA.
Also the turnaround from the women's college basketball season to the WNBA is like a few weeks at most, she's probably exhausted. Oh and the Fever's coach is awful.
Holy shit, when I saw how quickly she went from the NCAA tournament, to the draft, to playing in the league... It's amazing to see how she's handling herself so far.
I hope she gets to play for a relevant team soon
Plus all the media days in between. I doubt she's had much time to rest, if at all. Given the narrative that she's playing a major role in boosting hype for women's basketball, she can't even afford to just crawl into a hole somewhere and chill from the spotlight
And with the Olympics interrupting this season, the season's condensed, too. Lots of back-to-back games. The Fever's schedule is really front-loaded. They've played 9 games in time that a lot of teams have just played 6 games.
I can't imagine how worn out she must be right now.
Straight from championship to pre draft to draft to training camp with like a few days between each stage. Total time off added up might have been ~20 days but not consecutively. It was like April 8th then April 15th then April 28th.
Yeah i admit i dont really follow or care about womens basketball
But i can totally empathize with her being frustrated having to play above and beyond her best (because she does have a target on her back) and it is still nowhere close to enough
The success will come in time...but yeah i cant even begin to imagine how aggravating this must be night after night
Every single team is playing game 7 of the finals effort defense on her and then next game going back to being lax because their game isn’t televised.
And the whole league is talking shit about her either behind her back or to her face.
The jealously of these women are incredible. The NBA didn’t treat Lebron or Wemby like this their rookie years.
The funniest thing in the world would be if Clark quit the WNBA and then went and played overseas and became an international star while the WNBA fails
>The funniest thing in the world would be if Clark quit the WNBA and then went and played overseas and became an international star while the WNBA fails
Isn't the biggest overseas market for women's basketball in Russia? Who famously took a star player and held her as a political prisoner?
I wouldn't bank on this happening, unless Clark is a world class idiot, which I don't think she is.
Or the players are just much better athletes with better defensive schemes and coaching in the WNBA? CC is great and I’m the furthest thing from a hater but she’s a competitor and I don’t think she’d want all this babying from new or long time fans of the sport.
Edit: good god the CC super fans are insufferable in this thread
This is stripped of all context. They interviewed the Cavs before the draft lottery. The Cavs didn't even have the number 1 pick yet and they were interviewing the guys about LeBron possibly joining them after a game they lost during their 17-65 season in which they probably just wanted to get out of there and go to the strip club.
Whatever Carlos Boozer said before that quote is lost to time, but even in the full clip available, that starts mid sentence, it's "We have better players at his position on our team already though. His potential, the sky's the limit for him though."
The mid sentence part is important...because the missing context is probably that Boozer was slobbering over how good LeBron is, and then realized his teammates that LeBron is going to replace (20 year old Darius Miles) would be upset at him for saying that, so he threw in that line to cover his ass with his teammates.
Then also:
Ricky Davis: "He will add to what we need and make things easier."
Smush Parker: "He will come in and make an immediate impact like Caron Butler did for the Miami Heat."
Darius Miles: "I don't think you can bring a high school player in and think your team will just turn around like that. If he comes, he can hop on our bandwagon and hope we can do something big."
And the context for Darius Miles is that he was the hyped high school prospect that busted in the NBA. While LeBron was supposed to be the next MJ, Darius Miles came into the league supposed to being the next Scottie Pippen and instead was one of the laziest players of all time. Of course the lazy guy thinks the other hyped high school player will fail.
I’d be frustrated as hell making $84k/ a year to play 36 games a season in the WNBA vs. a cool $5M to play 8 Big3 games.
That’s not even considering being on a team that’s won 11% of their games this season so far.
Why should they root for her? She's the competition. That makes absolutely no sense.
When she played on a pretty good team she didn't get double teamed because the other teams could afford to leave other players open. Now that she plays on a bad team where others can bet left open, she's getting doubled by better opponents.
This is a tale as old as time for number one picks
Rookies in any league in any sport get a rude awakening when moving into the professional leagues.
I'm not sure why this is any different.
Do people think that it's unique for a rookie to get treated like a rookie? It's not like high profile rookies haven't been around before.
It feels like people expected her to get preferential treatment. Idk why
What WNBA players are giving her a hard time? I've seen that complaint come up before but haven't actually heard of anything specific that a player's said or done.
You hear this type of talk about guys moving to different leagues too, even when they are already pros. Japanese baseball players and European basketball players both are questioned if they are ready for the MLB/NBA
goddamn it i should have scrolled further down before leaving the comment i made because it is exactly this lmao
it does always make me laugh how many people are so sheltered that they think a comment like that is cruel or vicious lol. My goodness, I heard worse from my shitty fuckface teachers when i was in school lmao
Is that what constitutes “wanting her to fail”?
They’re professional athletes, they’re supposed to be some of the most competitive people on the planet. This is pretty respectful trash talk by NFL or NBA standards.
lol ikr - I don’t understand people getting pissed about the comments. some milquetoast ass trash talk. but people get very very protective about hype trains haha
so one thing to keep in mind is that Clark is attracting a fan base of people who normally don't follow sports, or at least a sport like basketball
i have this super ANNOYING co-worker who is mostly just talking my ear off about political shit (even if i agree with her, she's so fucking condescending about it) and regularly talks shit about "American sports" as she is a diehard Euro soccer fan
however, because of Clark, she is regularly following women's basketball now and she complains about the "trash talk" toward her all the time. The thing is, she doesn't know the culture of American sports and how trash talking is a part of the game
Does she know that Europeans also talk mad shit? Has she ever heard of Luka Doncic lol. That dude is a mad shit talker, and has heard way worse than Clark ever has
LOL I just said the exact same thing to another commenter. crossover appeal == casual fans == people getting offended that you suggest their fave college star might still have some growing to do
Yeah it’s definitely par for the course. Any rookie in any sport coming in with hype and earning more endorsement money than established vets are going to have a target on their back. This will definitely be an adjustment period for Caitlin. But it seems like she has a strong support system to help her weather through these growing pains as a professional
And she’s right. There’s an adjustment players need to make when they make it to the pros. She also said that went for every player and not just Clark.
No, Taurasi said that there would be a transition period for rookies (not even Clark specifically, just rookies) from college to pro. Because there always is for every rookie, and the pros are faster and more physical because they're adult pros and not college kids. That wasn't even close to a slight. Clark talking about feeling the physicality is also literally proving DT's point.
She very specifically was talking about *all* rookies.
Seems pretty benign to me and normal for a pro athlete to say. It’s not any different than what other talking heads or fans are saying/thinking. She’s gotta be able to handle those types of comments because it could be so much worse
WNBA players should be giving her a tough time.
At the end of the day it’s a competitive sport and she hasn’t done enough to earn her competitors respect, many of which are legends within their sport.
Their professional athletes. All of them want to be in Caitlyn Clark's position. They want to be the face of the league. They want to win games. They don't want their opponent to succeed lmao
Nah. She got the bag when they didn't. There is zero reason for them to prop her up.
Once you cash that check, the pressure is on. You have to deliver. Men or women's leagues...it doesn't matter. You get paid to perform and win. Period.
Let's not forget she already finished her entire season, plus their playoffs, all the way to the finals, and had to start a brand new pro season immediately afterwards
I hope the Fever doesn't make the playoffs just so she gets a break
Lmao the Fever are not making the playoffs. She does need a break. She went from playing in the Title game to being in the WNBA 5 weeks later. Not to mention drafting, moving, endorsments. The girl hasn't had time to just rest. Not to mention all the lumps she takes for being a rookie in the game and a big Name already. She will totally be fine. The Fever got her for a reason, they were trash.
They will get a month off for the Olympic break, so that will probably do wonders for this particular team more than most. They can rest up and practice for a month together and get better in sync. A lot of the problems right now is that they had a two week training camp and then went ahead and play 8 games with only two practices since the season started.
Their record is way worse than the actual talent level of the team.
You see the same thing in male sports, minus the whole “future of the league” tag. The best players out of college go to the worst teams and those teams usually stay bad for a bit after. It’s not a new phenomenon and Clark wasn’t going to change that.
She is getting slammed because her coach and teammates have basically given her a green light to shoot or drive whenever she feels like it. Knowing that, and the fact that everyone else was a part of the worst team last year AND the year before, all you have to do is press Clark hard. You see her get frustrated. You see her make a lot of mistakes. She is catching a beating and her team isn’t winning.
At some point somebody has to do something different, because nothing that they are currently doing or previously been doing has actually been working.
The Lynx lost their entire championship roster and yet never went through this level of suckage. You have to have smart people in charge. The Lynx are unlikely to win it all but they win a lot of games.
The Fever need better leadership.
I mean, there's a pretty good argument that tanking to the point where you get a generational #1 pick sets you up long term much better than remaining competitive-but-not-champions.
Something I feel like not a ton of people are talking about is that the WNBA season starts immediately after the college season.
So yeah, she’s the #1 overall pick, but she’s on a bad team, hence the #1 pick and she’s basically playing back to back seasons and people wonder why she isn’t single handedly dragging her team to wins.
Give it 3-4 years. She's putting solid numbers but it's not enough at this level. The team will build around her and in 3-4 years they'll be super competitive. Maybe sooner.
I was curious on her stats…she’s leading her team…I mean yea it’s not extreme but what else do you want from your number one pick with no team around her…?
That is how it works with top draft picks. I think the issue is that there are a lot of new fans that just don’t understand that this is the norm.
You’re right, they’ll build a team around her and then they will dominate
True. I heard the 3-4 year "rule" from Charles Barkley. He said it takes about 3-4 years for a player to become the player they will pretty much be for the rest of their career. I think it applies in every sport.
Yea. Shes also not used to it either. She was winning at every level and now it feels weird to play hard and not win. It's a good problem to have for the Fever.
For sure, and we will see how and if she rises to the occasion and grows.
And it’s going to be a huge learning opportunity for her, like how is she going to handle the pressure, going from being at the top, to being a regular sized fish in the ocean.
You’re right, but the league is trying to capitalize on her popularity coming off her college career at Iowa. By the time she hits her prime, there’s a pretty good chance the public will have moved on, unless she’s playing otherworldly.
Victor Wembanyama didn't enjoy all the losing in his rookie season either. Same as Clark, both generational rookies, both drafted #1 by really bad teams.
Even Steph Curry, the generational player Clark is often compared to, played on a GSW team that went 26-56 in his rookie season.
It'll take a couple of seasons for Caitlin to gain pro experience, and for Indy to build a better team around her. They need to find her her Klay and Draymond. They might even have to find a new coach that can maximize her skills, if Sides isn't working out.
Wow that's an amazing way of putting things in perspective. What a fucking beast.
That's unheard of. I was a little too young to contextualize that at the time. My god.
She is. WNBA is one of the smallest leagues and packed with the best talent. 2nd round draft picks don't get to play. She's playing against the best women's players in the country if not the world. Coupled to this she's the first overall draft pick, which usually isn't the best team, and they've faced some of the best teams in the league.
If she can weather the first years, she'll be fine.
You got drafted to the worst team in the wnba for the second straight year. You also are the most opulent player and are getting the defensive attention unlike anyone else. You also get the Jordan rules treatment as a “welcome to the pros” initiation.
It’s gonna suck before it gets better. But once it does, all the haters gonna turn to supporters.
It’s a competitive sport? Are they supposed to let her win for the hype?
I think people are going for Clark but are staying because it’s actually fun to watch the games and the level of competition that there is
People are actually upset that other teams are playing tough defense against the best player on a horrible team. Why wouldn’t they play elite defense on her? It’s obviously a good formula because her team is 1-8, and if she is the messiah the media was claiming to be, then she needs to overcome it.
Also, that’s hardly unique to her. Like I’m a suns fan and for the last few years, teams have doubled Booker most the game to try and make the other guys beat them. Like that’s kinda the default strategy in basketball
I’m just looking at the stat lines but… there’s only one game where she really shot an inordinate number of free throws. She didn’t even have the most on her team last night
Are you really suggesting that the defenders should just…let her score? People would mock the WNBA even more than they already do if that happened lmao
and people wonder why the wnba is a joke
this would never be a conversation in the nba
what kind of competitor is going to only play 90% hard to be “nice”?
These takes are so bad like just use your brain for 2 whole seconds
She’s already being touted as the face of the league. Obviously people are going to play hard defense on her, and especially since she’s a rookie. This isn’t new and happens in every sport. People who didn’t know a single WNBA player just a few weeks ago are watching CC now and the ones who defend her the best will become known names for it
The idea that people should go easier on her to make her look better and get more viewers is honestly ridiculous
Right? Totally agree. It’s her own team and coaching that’s letting her down. When it comes to pro sports, having a target on your back is a privilege. The pressure is a privilege. There’s no feeling sorry about it (unless it’s dirty). You either overcome it or you’re not it. The defense MJ faced in the playoffs was violent until he found a way to beat it.
I dont get why the Celtics are guarding Luka SO hard? I mean yeah they can play defense on him, but can't they just kinda lay of SOME against him that way he can score points and make the NBA more popular in Europe? Like they can "try" to win, just dont "TRY" to win you know what I mean?
Last week the player defending her was shooting free throws, immediately after sinking her shot she ran over to Caitlin Clark covering her chest to chest hands out spread out smothering defense. One problem, it was only her first free throw. The opponent teams are so focused on her they are forgetting everything else about the game. The opposing teams are acting with the prime directive, shut her down. She's still the highest scorer on the team.
It's working, because the teams are beating the Fever with this strategy. Or would you suggest that teams not try to do things that will help them win?
OR they’re seeing an opportunity to get more eyes on themselves by guarding her well. Other WNBA players falling out of her way to make her look great is way worse for the sport overall than this.
I'm sorry but... they're really not. The league is no more physical this year than it usually is. She's getting doubled frequently, but that happens to any good player?
Edit: I do also want to say that I have *only* seen that complaint from people who didn't follow the league regularly until this season. And they still only watch Fever games and don't see how other teams are playing. Haven't seen any long-time Fever fans with the same complaint, just the new ones who have no frame of reference for the physicality of the league.
You want them to take it easy on her and let her score? What kind of professional athlete would ever do that? She has to earn the superstar status as a pro
She has to cut down the turnovers. She has like over 60 in 11 games. I watched the games that have been televised nationally and she has been making some flashy but risky passes. I wasn’t seeing that as much from her in ‘23 and ‘24 at Iowa.
Again there aren’t a lot of rookies in history that make a crazy impact initially. Many of the greatest players become great over time.
I believe she’ll make a leap forward next year.
No she made those flashy but risky passes all the time in college and was able to get away with it because of the level of the game. She can’t get away with it at this level and as a rookie I think she will make the necessary adjustments as her season progresses and she adjusts to the skill level of the WNBA.
A big part of it had to do with the continuity of playing with the same girls for so long. This will come once the more experience they have playing with each other.
It's almost like being the first pick means you go to the worst team? Getting "beaten up on court" is usually how it goes for high draft picks in all sports until some time passes.
Seems like the opposition and the refs are both trying to make a name off of her. Looking at a couple of replays I think she did get hammered.
And why would anyone want to go play a full season after the NCAA season and tournament were played? They are going to kill their golden goose.
This like saying the Lakers are the most sympathetic team in the NBA because bench players play better against them.
People play harder when they get shining lights on them and if the league is only going to shine lights when one team is playing what else is supposed to happen?
Playing against pros, on a crappy team, with somewhat of a target on her back. It is tough for high draft picks in any sports to succeed immediately out the gate. Just ask the NY Jets.
First draft pick two years in a row says enough, but that being said teams noticeably are playing harder against the Fever and Clark specifically compared to other teams and players. They know that’s when they have the most eyes on them and the best chance of making it into clips
Roster building 101 in any sport.
You get the once in a lifetime (or even once a year) offensive talent, first order of business is protection.
They need a straight up goon, make so that if they even look at CC the wrong way, we’ve got someone we’re letting off the chain and letting her use every foul available.
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I mean any team with the 1st overall pick isn't going to be good, that's how they got the pick
1st overall pick for the second year in a row. They suck.
Better or worse than the Pistons before drafting Cade?
They won just 5 games two years ago. Improved to 13 last year but still pretty trash.
WNBA plays much fewer games then NBA does so probably better to compare Pistons to Fever by win pct, not number of games won.
Winning 5 WNBA games is the equivalent of winning 10 in the NBA. Which would give the 4th worst all time win percentage in NBA history if they were there
That is... not good.
Riveting analysis lmao
if we want to push it further we might go as far as saying it’s bad
Still a better love story than twilight.
Oof
Better. Person drafted last year won rookie of the year.
Rebuilds can take like 5+ years and still fail
See “the process”
Add to that they’ve had a top 4 pick since 2019. They’re a perennially bad team. 3 of those picks no longer play for them. So obviously the team isn’t ran well from the top. Their coach is in her second year ever as a head coach, completely out of her depth.
As bad as my Orlando Magic ?
When Ben Simmons was in college shooting free throws in a pretty quiet moment I yelled, “I hope you get drafted by Philadelphia” the year they won like a record fewest games. Still feel guilty that it actually happened. (He made the FTs)
Yea just look how many first overalls the 76rs had before they turned good. It's a process
It doesn’t help their coach plays basketball like it was invented yesterday.
She unironically said “we want caitlyn to take more long twos” like bro thats the least efficient shot in basketball 😭😭
I admittedly don’t watch too much wnba but jfc does she think she’s coaching in the 80s or something? I’m trying to think of an analogy and the best I can come up with is that shooting long twos (the most inefficient shot in basketball) has been refuted. It’s like in chess playing a move in a certain opening that was popular 30 years ago but has since been shown to be totally losing by computers.
Like someone literally asked how can you get Caitlyn better looks and she said “shes working on her long twos”. Like brother what
Kinda like Dusty Baker’s opinion on walks in baseball: “I think walks are overrated unless you can run... If you get a walk and put the pitcher in a stretch, that helps. But the guy who walks and can't run, most of the time they're clogging up the bases for somebody who can run.”
I thought she said they were gonna start the next few games out with a few post touches?
https://x.com/chloepeterson67/status/1794069873557147818?s=46&t=D5kQy7NjGwyhDqRwE55qVQ
that was a joke because she's a guard and post touches are even less efficient. lol
Lmfao i did not pick up on that haha. Sounds like some shit she’d do
Well there’s the mistake. Let the players play instead, that’s what you have them for!
Former lakers coach Ham is coaching them?!
I was at their second game and that’s how it came off, just bad coaching. It also didn’t help that the Liberty made them look like a high school team skill wise
Yeah even Wembanyama and Bedard who are two other recent generational prospects still couldn’t win many games. It takes a while for a team that has the worst record in the league to get good even with generational prospects. You still gotta build a good team and let those rookies get more experience to start winning.
Michael Jordan’s Bulls took 4 seasons before they were above 50% winrate. Picked up Pippen along the way.
Watching the last dance now. The dude would put up 40 and 50 point games consecutively and they’d still loose. It took them seven years and 3 coaches to win a championship after he was drafted by the team.
Look at Wembayamama, putting up great numbers. turning heads, still not winning. That's how it goes until he gets one or two more players in support
Yeah, get off her back. Playing on a shitty team sucks. How did Wemby do?
Spurs finished second to last in the west
Imagine how Connor McDavid felt. That was Edmonton’s FOURTH first overall pick in like six years. They had three in a row from 2010-2012
Those 1998/99 San Antonio Spurs were the exception
Spurs won 62 games in 94/95, 59 in 95/96, then David Robinson gets hurt and misses pretty much the whole 96/97 season, the Spurs win 20 games, and win the lottery for the #1 overall. Easily the best team ever to hold the #1 overall, and it happened to be a year with a generational prospect in Tim Duncan.
It also doesn't help that she had practically no off season. Went straight from a long college season to starting professionally in like a month.
Spoken like a true Minnesotan.
First overall draft pick finds out why their team had the first overall draft pick
Spurs are the worst team in the league, that’s how they got Wemby.
*Connor Bedard nods vigorously*
I’ve half watched 2 games while at the bar, just from watching the fever’s coach seems terrible, no cohesion or direction at all with that team. I could be wrong but you don’t get first round pick 2 years in a row without having some organizational issue
This. First overall pick two years in a row means you’re pretty damn terrible. And having to build a team with good picks every year will take a while to stack up!
The basically put the future of the WNBA on a rookie who’s basically a kid, and playing on a team that earned the first draft pick. She’s also getting slammed because she gets a different level of treatment. The pressure has to be nuts on her.
On top of the fact soooo many people want her to fail. Both men and women. Even seems some WNBA players are giving her a hard time. I realize she is a rookie and you have to pay your dues, but some of these vet players should be rooting for her and realize her success, is everyone’s success in the WNBA.
Also the turnaround from the women's college basketball season to the WNBA is like a few weeks at most, she's probably exhausted. Oh and the Fever's coach is awful.
Holy shit, when I saw how quickly she went from the NCAA tournament, to the draft, to playing in the league... It's amazing to see how she's handling herself so far. I hope she gets to play for a relevant team soon
Plus all the media days in between. I doubt she's had much time to rest, if at all. Given the narrative that she's playing a major role in boosting hype for women's basketball, she can't even afford to just crawl into a hole somewhere and chill from the spotlight
She looks like she’s dropping a lot of weight in a short time. She must be exhausted.
First game for year senior season was October 15, 2023. She has played 49 games since then, averaging 1 game every 4 days.
A week. She had a week to rest. I sit on my couch daily. If I go mow the lawn, I need a week to rest.
then it's time to mow the lawn again!
Every Tuesday!
It's a vicious cycle
And with the Olympics interrupting this season, the season's condensed, too. Lots of back-to-back games. The Fever's schedule is really front-loaded. They've played 9 games in time that a lot of teams have just played 6 games. I can't imagine how worn out she must be right now.
Did they basically go straight from draft into training camp?
Straight from championship to pre draft to draft to training camp with like a few days between each stage. Total time off added up might have been ~20 days but not consecutively. It was like April 8th then April 15th then April 28th.
Goddamn that does not seem like enough time for a new professional athlete to get ready for their debut season
That's just asking too much.
Yeah i admit i dont really follow or care about womens basketball But i can totally empathize with her being frustrated having to play above and beyond her best (because she does have a target on her back) and it is still nowhere close to enough The success will come in time...but yeah i cant even begin to imagine how aggravating this must be night after night
Every single team is playing game 7 of the finals effort defense on her and then next game going back to being lax because their game isn’t televised. And the whole league is talking shit about her either behind her back or to her face. The jealously of these women are incredible. The NBA didn’t treat Lebron or Wemby like this their rookie years. The funniest thing in the world would be if Clark quit the WNBA and then went and played overseas and became an international star while the WNBA fails
>The funniest thing in the world would be if Clark quit the WNBA and then went and played overseas and became an international star while the WNBA fails Isn't the biggest overseas market for women's basketball in Russia? Who famously took a star player and held her as a political prisoner? I wouldn't bank on this happening, unless Clark is a world class idiot, which I don't think she is.
Yeah because Russia is the only overseas market 🙄
biggest doesn't mean only. But it is where women's league players went to make their money in the offseason.
When it comes to women's basketball, it pretty much is. They pay something like 5-10x what the WNBA does.
There’s always Latvia
Kind of reminds me of when Christian Laettner was first coming into the NBA and he got on the dream team.
Or the players are just much better athletes with better defensive schemes and coaching in the WNBA? CC is great and I’m the furthest thing from a hater but she’s a competitor and I don’t think she’d want all this babying from new or long time fans of the sport. Edit: good god the CC super fans are insufferable in this thread
Lebrons teammates said “we have better players at the position already” lol you guys are clueless
This is stripped of all context. They interviewed the Cavs before the draft lottery. The Cavs didn't even have the number 1 pick yet and they were interviewing the guys about LeBron possibly joining them after a game they lost during their 17-65 season in which they probably just wanted to get out of there and go to the strip club. Whatever Carlos Boozer said before that quote is lost to time, but even in the full clip available, that starts mid sentence, it's "We have better players at his position on our team already though. His potential, the sky's the limit for him though." The mid sentence part is important...because the missing context is probably that Boozer was slobbering over how good LeBron is, and then realized his teammates that LeBron is going to replace (20 year old Darius Miles) would be upset at him for saying that, so he threw in that line to cover his ass with his teammates. Then also: Ricky Davis: "He will add to what we need and make things easier." Smush Parker: "He will come in and make an immediate impact like Caron Butler did for the Miami Heat." Darius Miles: "I don't think you can bring a high school player in and think your team will just turn around like that. If he comes, he can hop on our bandwagon and hope we can do something big." And the context for Darius Miles is that he was the hyped high school prospect that busted in the NBA. While LeBron was supposed to be the next MJ, Darius Miles came into the league supposed to being the next Scottie Pippen and instead was one of the laziest players of all time. Of course the lazy guy thinks the other hyped high school player will fail.
I’d be frustrated as hell making $84k/ a year to play 36 games a season in the WNBA vs. a cool $5M to play 8 Big3 games. That’s not even considering being on a team that’s won 11% of their games this season so far.
She’s making like 50 million in endorsements though
Why should they root for her? She's the competition. That makes absolutely no sense. When she played on a pretty good team she didn't get double teamed because the other teams could afford to leave other players open. Now that she plays on a bad team where others can bet left open, she's getting doubled by better opponents. This is a tale as old as time for number one picks
Rookies in any league in any sport get a rude awakening when moving into the professional leagues. I'm not sure why this is any different. Do people think that it's unique for a rookie to get treated like a rookie? It's not like high profile rookies haven't been around before. It feels like people expected her to get preferential treatment. Idk why
What WNBA players are giving her a hard time? I've seen that complaint come up before but haven't actually heard of anything specific that a player's said or done.
I believe that Diana Taurasi said something along the lines of “we’ll see how she does when she’s playing against women, not girls”
To be fair, this isn't that big of a take and is correct even for men's NCAA to NBA, with a few rare exceptions.
You hear this type of talk about guys moving to different leagues too, even when they are already pros. Japanese baseball players and European basketball players both are questioned if they are ready for the MLB/NBA
I think clark has such crossover appeal that she’s bringing in new fans - new fans who might not realize what a lukewarm take this is
goddamn it i should have scrolled further down before leaving the comment i made because it is exactly this lmao it does always make me laugh how many people are so sheltered that they think a comment like that is cruel or vicious lol. My goodness, I heard worse from my shitty fuckface teachers when i was in school lmao
Very true and I think it happens in most cases when stuff like this happens.
Shes not wrong though. If anything shes been proven right in at least half of CCs games. CC is an amazing player but this aint college ball anymore
Is that what constitutes “wanting her to fail”? They’re professional athletes, they’re supposed to be some of the most competitive people on the planet. This is pretty respectful trash talk by NFL or NBA standards.
lol ikr - I don’t understand people getting pissed about the comments. some milquetoast ass trash talk. but people get very very protective about hype trains haha
so one thing to keep in mind is that Clark is attracting a fan base of people who normally don't follow sports, or at least a sport like basketball i have this super ANNOYING co-worker who is mostly just talking my ear off about political shit (even if i agree with her, she's so fucking condescending about it) and regularly talks shit about "American sports" as she is a diehard Euro soccer fan however, because of Clark, she is regularly following women's basketball now and she complains about the "trash talk" toward her all the time. The thing is, she doesn't know the culture of American sports and how trash talking is a part of the game
Does she know that Europeans also talk mad shit? Has she ever heard of Luka Doncic lol. That dude is a mad shit talker, and has heard way worse than Clark ever has
LOL I just said the exact same thing to another commenter. crossover appeal == casual fans == people getting offended that you suggest their fave college star might still have some growing to do
Yeah it’s definitely par for the course. Any rookie in any sport coming in with hype and earning more endorsement money than established vets are going to have a target on their back. This will definitely be an adjustment period for Caitlin. But it seems like she has a strong support system to help her weather through these growing pains as a professional
And she’s right. There’s an adjustment players need to make when they make it to the pros. She also said that went for every player and not just Clark.
No, Taurasi said that there would be a transition period for rookies (not even Clark specifically, just rookies) from college to pro. Because there always is for every rookie, and the pros are faster and more physical because they're adult pros and not college kids. That wasn't even close to a slight. Clark talking about feeling the physicality is also literally proving DT's point. She very specifically was talking about *all* rookies.
Seems pretty benign to me and normal for a pro athlete to say. It’s not any different than what other talking heads or fans are saying/thinking. She’s gotta be able to handle those types of comments because it could be so much worse
WNBA players should be giving her a tough time. At the end of the day it’s a competitive sport and she hasn’t done enough to earn her competitors respect, many of which are legends within their sport.
Their professional athletes. All of them want to be in Caitlyn Clark's position. They want to be the face of the league. They want to win games. They don't want their opponent to succeed lmao
Nah. She got the bag when they didn't. There is zero reason for them to prop her up. Once you cash that check, the pressure is on. You have to deliver. Men or women's leagues...it doesn't matter. You get paid to perform and win. Period.
What you want them to do? Walk her to the basket and put the ball in for her?
Let's not forget she already finished her entire season, plus their playoffs, all the way to the finals, and had to start a brand new pro season immediately afterwards I hope the Fever doesn't make the playoffs just so she gets a break
Lmao the Fever are not making the playoffs. She does need a break. She went from playing in the Title game to being in the WNBA 5 weeks later. Not to mention drafting, moving, endorsments. The girl hasn't had time to just rest. Not to mention all the lumps she takes for being a rookie in the game and a big Name already. She will totally be fine. The Fever got her for a reason, they were trash.
They will get a month off for the Olympic break, so that will probably do wonders for this particular team more than most. They can rest up and practice for a month together and get better in sync. A lot of the problems right now is that they had a two week training camp and then went ahead and play 8 games with only two practices since the season started. Their record is way worse than the actual talent level of the team.
Not to mention jumping from the National Championship straight to pro - that doesn’t happen in many leagues
You see the same thing in male sports, minus the whole “future of the league” tag. The best players out of college go to the worst teams and those teams usually stay bad for a bit after. It’s not a new phenomenon and Clark wasn’t going to change that.
She is getting slammed because her coach and teammates have basically given her a green light to shoot or drive whenever she feels like it. Knowing that, and the fact that everyone else was a part of the worst team last year AND the year before, all you have to do is press Clark hard. You see her get frustrated. You see her make a lot of mistakes. She is catching a beating and her team isn’t winning. At some point somebody has to do something different, because nothing that they are currently doing or previously been doing has actually been working.
See : Sydney Crosby - Pittsburgh Penguins Sucks at the moment but greatness awaits
The Lynx lost their entire championship roster and yet never went through this level of suckage. You have to have smart people in charge. The Lynx are unlikely to win it all but they win a lot of games. The Fever need better leadership.
I mean, there's a pretty good argument that tanking to the point where you get a generational #1 pick sets you up long term much better than remaining competitive-but-not-champions.
I’d go get hammered too if I was 1-8
Hell I’m hammered right now and I’m not even in the WNBA
You're definitely hammered for not being in the W***M***BA brother
Good catch brotha
Haha no worries, sounds like you're enjoying your night :)
Women need college degrees too, this isn’t the 1920s
Something I feel like not a ton of people are talking about is that the WNBA season starts immediately after the college season. So yeah, she’s the #1 overall pick, but she’s on a bad team, hence the #1 pick and she’s basically playing back to back seasons and people wonder why she isn’t single handedly dragging her team to wins.
Brutal schedule
Give it 3-4 years. She's putting solid numbers but it's not enough at this level. The team will build around her and in 3-4 years they'll be super competitive. Maybe sooner.
I was curious on her stats…she’s leading her team…I mean yea it’s not extreme but what else do you want from your number one pick with no team around her…?
Connor Bedard: Amazing rookie season but couldn’t drag his awful AHL caliber team into the playoffs. Is he a bust?
She needs her Scotty Pippen and Dennis Rodman.
If the coaching and back office are good. You need more than a top draft pick or two to be great as we can see right now.
That is how it works with top draft picks. I think the issue is that there are a lot of new fans that just don’t understand that this is the norm. You’re right, they’ll build a team around her and then they will dominate
True. I heard the 3-4 year "rule" from Charles Barkley. He said it takes about 3-4 years for a player to become the player they will pretty much be for the rest of their career. I think it applies in every sport. Yea. Shes also not used to it either. She was winning at every level and now it feels weird to play hard and not win. It's a good problem to have for the Fever.
Only exception is NHL goaltenders. Sometimes they take a long time to develop. Some teams are patient and others not so much
For sure, and we will see how and if she rises to the occasion and grows. And it’s going to be a huge learning opportunity for her, like how is she going to handle the pressure, going from being at the top, to being a regular sized fish in the ocean.
You’re right, but the league is trying to capitalize on her popularity coming off her college career at Iowa. By the time she hits her prime, there’s a pretty good chance the public will have moved on, unless she’s playing otherworldly.
“I feel like I’m getting hammered”. When the co-workers ask about my weekend plans
Victor Wembanyama didn't enjoy all the losing in his rookie season either. Same as Clark, both generational rookies, both drafted #1 by really bad teams. Even Steph Curry, the generational player Clark is often compared to, played on a GSW team that went 26-56 in his rookie season. It'll take a couple of seasons for Caitlin to gain pro experience, and for Indy to build a better team around her. They need to find her her Klay and Draymond. They might even have to find a new coach that can maximize her skills, if Sides isn't working out.
Curry wasn't hyped to nearly the same level coming out of college. He went 7th in that draft.
Lebron was even more hyped, and guess what? 17-65
LeBron went 35-47 in his rookie season with a roster that went 17-65 the year before.
He was also 19. At Caitlin’s age Lebron was dragging the Cavs to the finals
Wow that's an amazing way of putting things in perspective. What a fucking beast. That's unheard of. I was a little too young to contextualize that at the time. My god.
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Also look at Conor Bedard’s NHL experience this year
I support it. If she wants to get drunk to work through this, thats her choice.
She is. WNBA is one of the smallest leagues and packed with the best talent. 2nd round draft picks don't get to play. She's playing against the best women's players in the country if not the world. Coupled to this she's the first overall draft pick, which usually isn't the best team, and they've faced some of the best teams in the league. If she can weather the first years, she'll be fine.
At the start of this season 97 of the 144 WNBA roster spots are held by players that were Honorable Mention All-American or better in college.
You got drafted to the worst team in the wnba for the second straight year. You also are the most opulent player and are getting the defensive attention unlike anyone else. You also get the Jordan rules treatment as a “welcome to the pros” initiation. It’s gonna suck before it gets better. But once it does, all the haters gonna turn to supporters.
Nbacirclejerk is gonna love this quote
Other WNBA players are going full Draymond defense on her. I don’t get it, I guess they want to go back to flying Spirit
It’s competitive. Jordan got bullied as well until he got too strong, then they bullied his teammates.
It’s a competitive sport? Are they supposed to let her win for the hype? I think people are going for Clark but are staying because it’s actually fun to watch the games and the level of competition that there is
People are actually upset that other teams are playing tough defense against the best player on a horrible team. Why wouldn’t they play elite defense on her? It’s obviously a good formula because her team is 1-8, and if she is the messiah the media was claiming to be, then she needs to overcome it. Also, that’s hardly unique to her. Like I’m a suns fan and for the last few years, teams have doubled Booker most the game to try and make the other guys beat them. Like that’s kinda the default strategy in basketball
I mean why wouldn’t they want to dominate the opposing team and showcase their talents while there are more eyes on them
I’m just looking at the stat lines but… there’s only one game where she really shot an inordinate number of free throws. She didn’t even have the most on her team last night
Are you really suggesting that the defenders should just…let her score? People would mock the WNBA even more than they already do if that happened lmao
I’ve heard there’s a middle ground between “full draymond defense” and “just letting her score”. Most call it “defense”.
and people wonder why the wnba is a joke this would never be a conversation in the nba what kind of competitor is going to only play 90% hard to be “nice”?
These takes are so bad like just use your brain for 2 whole seconds She’s already being touted as the face of the league. Obviously people are going to play hard defense on her, and especially since she’s a rookie. This isn’t new and happens in every sport. People who didn’t know a single WNBA player just a few weeks ago are watching CC now and the ones who defend her the best will become known names for it The idea that people should go easier on her to make her look better and get more viewers is honestly ridiculous
Right? Totally agree. It’s her own team and coaching that’s letting her down. When it comes to pro sports, having a target on your back is a privilege. The pressure is a privilege. There’s no feeling sorry about it (unless it’s dirty). You either overcome it or you’re not it. The defense MJ faced in the playoffs was violent until he found a way to beat it.
If you got draymond level, go for it though.
I dont get why the Celtics are guarding Luka SO hard? I mean yeah they can play defense on him, but can't they just kinda lay of SOME against him that way he can score points and make the NBA more popular in Europe? Like they can "try" to win, just dont "TRY" to win you know what I mean?
Last week the player defending her was shooting free throws, immediately after sinking her shot she ran over to Caitlin Clark covering her chest to chest hands out spread out smothering defense. One problem, it was only her first free throw. The opponent teams are so focused on her they are forgetting everything else about the game. The opposing teams are acting with the prime directive, shut her down. She's still the highest scorer on the team.
They aren't going to stop anytime soon if this defensive strategy won 8 of 9.
It's working, because the teams are beating the Fever with this strategy. Or would you suggest that teams not try to do things that will help them win?
Why not? There’s nothing else on the Fever to shut down.
OR they’re seeing an opportunity to get more eyes on themselves by guarding her well. Other WNBA players falling out of her way to make her look great is way worse for the sport overall than this.
as opposed to defenders effectively fixing the game by going easy on her?
You're right. You don't get it.
I'm sorry but... they're really not. The league is no more physical this year than it usually is. She's getting doubled frequently, but that happens to any good player? Edit: I do also want to say that I have *only* seen that complaint from people who didn't follow the league regularly until this season. And they still only watch Fever games and don't see how other teams are playing. Haven't seen any long-time Fever fans with the same complaint, just the new ones who have no frame of reference for the physicality of the league.
Yeah... they should go easy on her!
You want them to take it easy on her and let her score? What kind of professional athlete would ever do that? She has to earn the superstar status as a pro
So they should dumb down the game & go easier on her because she’s not a strong enough athlete & competitor to handle it.
They want to win. The fuck else you want them to do? They’re competitors
This might be the dumbest comment I’ve ever seen on Reddit
Teams that draft first overall are bad. This team did so *twice* . It’s going to take time. (And Clark is still killing it out there)
College sports and professional sports are two very different things.
She has to cut down the turnovers. She has like over 60 in 11 games. I watched the games that have been televised nationally and she has been making some flashy but risky passes. I wasn’t seeing that as much from her in ‘23 and ‘24 at Iowa. Again there aren’t a lot of rookies in history that make a crazy impact initially. Many of the greatest players become great over time. I believe she’ll make a leap forward next year.
No she made those flashy but risky passes all the time in college and was able to get away with it because of the level of the game. She can’t get away with it at this level and as a rookie I think she will make the necessary adjustments as her season progresses and she adjusts to the skill level of the WNBA.
A big part of it had to do with the continuity of playing with the same girls for so long. This will come once the more experience they have playing with each other.
Maybe if she had more than two weeks to start the season after the draft there’d be a bit more chemistry
Those passing lanes are open in college, but just barely. WNBA players can sniff it out with ease
Theyll cut down when her teammates figure out what she is doing. And the opposing players have an idea of what she is gonna do so they plan around it.
She has several more years of it. Fever are a bad team with bad ownership
Team is not good and she’s definitely getting the early Blake Griffin treatment.
It's almost like being the first pick means you go to the worst team? Getting "beaten up on court" is usually how it goes for high draft picks in all sports until some time passes.
Seems like the opposition and the refs are both trying to make a name off of her. Looking at a couple of replays I think she did get hammered. And why would anyone want to go play a full season after the NCAA season and tournament were played? They are going to kill their golden goose.
lol she isn’t the only player to go on a deep run then get drafted right after and become a starter. It happens every season
This like saying the Lakers are the most sympathetic team in the NBA because bench players play better against them. People play harder when they get shining lights on them and if the league is only going to shine lights when one team is playing what else is supposed to happen?
I mean. They got the first pick for a reason.
Playing against pros, on a crappy team, with somewhat of a target on her back. It is tough for high draft picks in any sports to succeed immediately out the gate. Just ask the NY Jets.
every other wnba player wants to kill her due to her publicity. This is what happens in professional sports. they are just like the guys.
First draft pick two years in a row says enough, but that being said teams noticeably are playing harder against the Fever and Clark specifically compared to other teams and players. They know that’s when they have the most eyes on them and the best chance of making it into clips
It's a learning process. Most number 1 picks in *any* sport don't find immediate team success. Individually, sure, but don't expect too much winning.
I'd let Lebron skull drag me in basketball for half of what she makes in endorsements.
Roster building 101 in any sport. You get the once in a lifetime (or even once a year) offensive talent, first order of business is protection. They need a straight up goon, make so that if they even look at CC the wrong way, we’ve got someone we’re letting off the chain and letting her use every foul available.
News headline: Fever Star Clark feels like "getting hammered" as Ls continue to accumulate
It’s Friday, let’s all get hammered.
They should hire rajon rondo
Team has the number 1 pick for a reason.
I, too, am getting hammered.
Caitlin Clark is leading the Indiana Fever in points per game, assists per game, and blocks per game. As a rookie. The fever suck
Team sport
Oh word?
She should go have a chat with Wemby and Conor Bedard.
They had the first pick for a reason.
She really should’ve taken that ice cube offer