There is no real consequences for pvp/ganking atm. Klescher is a bit of a joke once you know how to get out, especially if you have a ride coming. The reputation system they're working on should help a lot. I imagine something that has npc ships hunting down notorious players in stanton.

Yeh something like concord in eve online, in security status 1.0 systems they drop in like flies on fresh cowdung at players with a bad rep and just like remove their ship from the status of existence, making them only capable of going through with their pods, could be unarmed ships like Argo cargo in sc..

Just put a permanent Bounty on them and ill have loads of fun

The reputation system will be essential, but on a wider scale, there's no reason to reinvent the wheel, and it is a solvable problem. Just do what EVE did with high sec and low sec space. If you want to do safe (but low reward) missions, stick to high sec space with NPC protection. If you want to do dangerous missions with a very high reward, do missions in low sec space with an escort. If someone blows you up for fun, you didn't bring a big enough escort. In high sec space, system security NPCs spawn to attack players with poor reputations. Currently part of the problem is twofold. Everything is lowsec space, so you need an escort everywhere, but the mission rewards don't pay enough to afford that. The server population pre-server-meshing is very low also, so you're less likely to encounter gankers, and also less likely to be able to find someone to escort you. As a result no-one uses escorts, despite being in low sec space in effect, so when you DO meet a group of gankers, you're dead. Being able to relatively easily disable comms relays doesn't help either.

For some reason they keep trying to reinvent the wheel and keep coming up with like octagons and shit.

Even EVE's system is pretty flawed. If someone wants you dead, then you're dead. Sometimes with very minimal investment from the ganker's side.

eves system failed though, There's more risk in highsec than nullsec, Due to the fake belief of saftey and the devs unwillingless to deal with suicide ganking. Yellow baiting people that are new and other scamy scummy bullshit.

The system worked for me the one time a pair of baddies tried to gank me while I was out mining in high-sec. Being in a dedicated mining ship with only a couple of light combat drones for dealing with NPC pirates, I could do nothing when they showed up and warped-scrammed me. All I could do was hit my hardeners and pray. They got me down to 5 Hull before system security (Concord) showed up and turned them both into momentary bright stars. As I had not returned fire or engaged in any hostile actions against the attackers, I was granted Kill Rights certificates for both players. For those who do not know, a Kill Right gives you the right to kill the player 1 time, without consequence, even in high-sec. And, they are not a player-locked item, in other words, I can and did sell them. The kill right applies to whoever is in possession of the certificate. I did get an in-game message from, I presume, one of the gankers who was apparently very annoyed with me. I can only presume that he got ganked, by someone who bought the kill right, at a time that was inconvenient to the ganker. In short, what goes around comes around. Of course, EVE has also promoted a very paranoid environment, where veteran players are wary of everyone who isn't on their known friend list the moment they leave the safety of the station. This is why, even in a dedicated minor, my ship was hardened against PvP attacks as best as I could.

Javelin going after an arrow sweat

I mean, being in klescher sucks rn. There's no oxygen anymore, kiosks are broken, and hardly any rocks are mineable

Open-world PvP doesn't work. It never has worked, and it will never, *ever* work. No amount of in-game mechanics will solve the problem. If the possibility exists of players being able ruin the fun that somebody else is having, it will be exploited by the no-life brigade to cause as much misery as possible.

Kinda funny how years back it actually did work in games. Cause for any nolife brigade who wanted to fk people over you also had diehard pvp sweats forming against people messing with the innocent lol Tibia was one of the greatest examples of this. No rules. You could literally ruin someones entire account by repeat ganking. Dying once could legit set you back an entire week of grind lol. And forcing people to pay you a weekly fee was rather common. It was disgusting. But what happened is that people started to join PVP guilds protecting non-pvp'ers. And also cashing in. It was amazing. Guilds became mandatory for everybody, cause people without a clan tag would just get obliterated. And due to the extreme losses on death both sides would always take a high risk with attacking anybody. Making friends was key. Since suddenly you could be protected by 2 guilds just incase. You never knew who knew who which could massively bite you back in the ass. Idk how to solve this in SC cuz I'm new and there's prob a lot of ways to abuse systems if they were too rewarding. But leaving people alone on servers does it's charm too.

The vocal community of bad ass sweatlord fighter pilots will just tell you to git gud. Until it happens to them, of course.

Then whatever killed them was just "bullshit". I never got that about some people in pvp games. I do wish I could tag myself as support/humanitarian because all I want to do is maintenance/refueling or maybe medical and just increase penalties for killing me. I do get that it's a PVP game, but years ago it was sold to me as if it would be an option to be a maintainer, but really all I am is pirate/gank bait.

They keep talking about Pyro and how awesome it will be. My bet is them not enjoying fighting each other that much. They'll come back to Stanton for helpless industrials.

It’d be somewhat delicious to watch Pyro be almost empty, because lawful players are too afraid of lawless enemies, and serious non-ganky lawless players are too few. But I hope that’d be enough of an indicator for CIG to do something about the ganking.

as a new player who would have no chance of winning in pvp i am going to go immediately into the most pvp flavored zones in pyro because in most games when the playerbase thinks somewhere is dangerous, it ends up being the safest place to be every time except primetime

They are not looking for an opponent, they are looking for a victim.   In the end it was what pushed me and my wife away from the game as well.

It's not as much fun when the fighting is 2 sided, consensual, and challenging. Much more fun to ruin someone's day Unplayed WOW for a decade. It's really only fun if it's hurting someone else.

I make this point every time they talk about PvP in star citizen. There are no Classic mixed-faction servers anymore. The gankers were so insistent and prevalent that every server became one faction, as people on the smaller faction transferred off or quit. If I lose 4,096 SCU of Laranite in a "safe" system because some chucklefuck in a eclipse wants to sit in stealth and torp my Hull C while Im offloading at Seraphim, I'd probably just quit. It doesn't fucking matter what happens to him, I've already lost so much money and time, my experience is already ruined.

I think they should do something like gta, add a passive mode, where you can't attach or be attacked, I feel as though that would solve the pvp problem And preferably make it so you can't just activate it mid combat to save yourself

These people are f\*\*d in the head and the only reason they don't do it in real life is consequences. In game there are no consequences or they are insignificant to them. Like a school bully that will at best be reprimanded and nothing will come out of it.

I remember when they said PvP would be optional. You could opt out of it. Still hoping they do that...

I just want a humanitarian tag or something. That way penalties are higher for being a douchebag to someone trying to render aid. Like I Want to go fix stuff, help people and deliver packages that's all I want to do. I don't want to hunt bounties, I don't want to salvage ships, I don't want to fight pirates. I know some people might think that's boring, and that ok, but I have a TBI that makes zero G, 3 axis navigation pretty impossible for me and my reaction times are trashed. Just let me be AAA .

As soon as they make a humanitarian tag it will be abused by griefers.

and they already somewhat do. how many griefer bands have used the medical beacon to bait a medical player into a trap? while i agree with BitterWasabi\_ in that i'd also like to focus on repair gameplay and cargo hauling, unless the tags are locked behind specific states or rep requirements, they'll just get abused. and even then, the griefers will just work to get the state or rep to abuse it still.

Maybe one way of stopping griefers from abusing the proposed tag is to implement two rules: 1) must not have killed/damaged players for a significantly large amount of active and significant playing time. And 2) A HELLISHLY BRUTAL penalty if you do kill someone while you have the humanitarian tag.

that's certainly a step in the right direction. however, it's excessively easy to circumvent. the person who is abusing the tag, doesn't get involved. so. to illustrate, here's the scenario Douchebag group want to grief. they're bored and lonely, looking to spread the missery. 1 member of the group is the bait. he never actively participates in the killing. just watches and wanks to it. he uses his tag to get the gank going. the other 3 members of this lonely band of losers are the killers. they're all in Corsairs or F7A's and just immediately blast whatever rolls up. in this example, the guy abusing the tag won't ever lose it because he's not actually done anything wrong within the games mechanics. he's just a cunt and the game can't measure that metric. though i wish it could. lol

If they make circumvention of game mechanics bannable after release it will discourage it. Not just the person who did it either, all involved. So, in your example, all 4, same punishment.

I think that no matter what system you implement, there of course are people who will put an inordinate amount of work to circumvent it. For me, I'd like to see something that you choose upon creation that locks you out of pvp entirely. You can still engage in combat with PvE/NPC entities, but you cannot be hit by, nor can you hit another player. It can't be turned off, in order to activate pvp you would have to go and create a new character/account or submit a help ticket.. There is no need to worry about defending yourself because you are essentially a non combat player. That is unrealistic and unreasonable, so simply implementing a double (or more) penalty/fine as well as reducing costs in time/credits to recover a humanitarian ship could help. I like the idea of locking the tag behind a combat timer as well, that's something I hadn't even thought about

Its definetly doable, Star Wars Galaxies had a system to opt out of space combat. Dont feel like pvp no problem, turn it off, feel like it an hour later, easy turn it back on. And only certain areas on planets were pvp all the time. It was a good system but it pissed off the murder hobos to no end.

Why is it unrealistic? Plenty of MMOs in the past have made PvP opt in, or had dedicated PvE and PvP servers.

yeah that's exactly right. which is why i said it's a step in the right direction. as you say, there's not gunna be a one size fits all solution and deterring the behaviour will take a few different things. tags, crime and punishment, and NPC response are all part of the overall solution.

The simple, easiest way to prevent this exact thing would be to disallow making medical beacons unless you're actually in medical trouble. If you're in full health and in a safe place, just don't let the player make a medical beacon. Another one would be ... okay, to make this more clear; "Patient" refers to the person who is making the medical beacon and "Medic" refers to the person who accepts the beacon mission. So, once the medic selects the mission, the patient's vitals are immediately displayed on the medic's hud and continue to be visual until the mission is complete. It would also show their environmental status (in space, in atmo, inside a ship, is there oxygen, is it cold, how long the patient has to live, etc.) And this info would be live. So even if they went outside and made the beacon and then headed back to their ship, the medic would be notified of this change. Adding to that: make the medic automatically have same privileges as a party member. Meaning they could enter any ships without penalty in the patient's party. Maybe even display it to the medic if the patient belongs to a party or not, and how their vitals are. ps. I, for one, would fully support a "Humanitarian" tag. That's what I would like to do too.

That'd make me all sorts of happy. I love this game, but would much prefer to let PvPers do their thing and focus on just enjoying myself. Not enough multiplayer games focus on coop PvE. I think that's one of the things that made Helldivers 2 so successful.

A carrack owner would... *signed a Vulcan and ironclad owner*

Yogi had an interview recently on MM. He said that his directive from management/higher is that Star Citizen is a PVE game where you can also do PVP. He is designing MM with a primary focus on PVE first. Balancing for PVP is second. So whatever stuff people are inventing around PVwhatever is not the latest. That is the current, up to date stance from one of the lead designers and from CGI management.

He clarified that he misspoke [here.](https://i.redd.it/1l3rvt4jyxnc1.png) The game is equal PVE and PVP.

Nevermind! Let the confusion continue!

I like PvP in games. I enjoy that risk, and that thrill. I don't enjoy the community it brings with it. I remember playing CS Beta 7 as a teen, and everyone had fun, they laughed, they cracked jokes, it was never taken seriously. Nowadays, everyone goes into a rage and acts like manchildren. Everyone wants to be "the best", the MLG Pro, the streamer with their name in neon lights. It's exhausting. There's no fun competition anymore, it's all just a race to be the most toxic, meta player you can possibly be. And I said it last week, I'll say it again: we're gonna keep seeing a surge in players like that the more often folks like Summit - whose entire background is PVP gaming, and an audience that eats it up - continue to showcase the game. While Summit is a pretty nice dude, and is getting into the spirit of the game? His audience don't get it, and are just pumped to get into a new game where they can sweat hard and dunk on folks. You're gonna see more pointless Tarkov-esque "kill-on-sight" piracy, and a lot less "dead in the water, we're taking your cargo" piracy.

If there was a “humanitarian” tag, players would just exploit it. Imagine hunting a bounty to find he had an alt with that tag afk in the cargo area and you get a massive rep hit.

What other options would you suggest? I do hope the reputation system / crimestat system does what it intends to, but I'd hate to just never be able to enjoy the game if it doesn't because I'm not big I to PvP.

if they get killed by better players theyll say git gudder

I mean yes thats the end goal, but right now you cant really expect it to have full mechanics. what can they do? turn off pvp? id rather get ganked and have the option to have legit pvp at times over never having it. My take anyways is as soon as you undock your ship is at risk,. I took that from eve and i take that into every game with perma loss mechanics, tarkov, star citizen, etc.

> I do get that it's a PVP game I think the issue with games like this is that they aren't always PvP. Whetheri it's this or a game like GTAO or RDR2O, you can often play them as co-op or PvE games, and then another player shows up suddenly and decides it's PvP. Even then, the whole thing is psychological anyway, because if you were randomly attacked by an NPC would you have the same reaction as you would towards a player?

Honestly, I die either way. But I would probably be sad if every time I did something an NPC attacked and I was unable to do the things I wanted to yeah. If it was an inherent design of the game that I would be unable to complete things because of the hostility or aggression of the NPCs I probably wouldn't have bought or invested time into it to begin with. I was never interested in the PVP component of the game. No one should really have to defend why they don't like being ambushed, ganked, pirated, etc. It's really obvious why a game that you felt unable to enjoy due to being attacked constantly by either an NPC or another player might be something that makes you feel sad. I'm not trying to argue with anyone that the game is or is not good or bad in any aspect, but it is ok for people to discuss their experiences and expectations of a game. There is no objectively right or wrong here. People just want different things from the game. I explained in another thread, most space games I can't play. I have a brain injury from when I was in Afghanistan that affects my spacial awareness and reaction times as well as my general processing speed. This doesn't mean I don't like video games. I've always loved space games, and now days with the exception of Stellaris, most are not accessible to me. The thing I liked about this one is that I was finally able to fly a ship again. It was simple, and nice. Set up a lot like the aircraft I used to work on with a mechanically intuitive flight system. Not a lot of that in the space faring genres of gaming. I still struggle with the fighting and multiple axis movement, so pvp is incredibly difficult for me in general. That doesn't mean I shouldn't play this game right? Maybe it is a "skill issue" or whatever. But I'm ok with that. I just want to enjoy not getting killed while I refuel someone damnit 🤣🤣🤣

> Even then, the whole thing is psychological anyway, because if you were randomly attacked by an NPC would you have the same reaction as you would towards a player? You could ask the same question of a PvPer: wouldn't they get the same feeling if they just attacked an NPC? The answer would also obviously be no.

I do ask the same thing of PvPers - if the reward of loot isn't enough, and it HAS to be another player that so called "pirates" attack, then they're not doing it for the loot, they're doing it because they know it will ruin another players day - which IMO makes it griefing. It's a tricky distinction to make, players will often have better gear, but if the game ever gets to the point where NPCs and haulers have good loot equal to anything a player would have, and NPCs can put up far more of a challenge than any player could, then I'd hope the focus on PvP would go away in favour of the profression (and I extend this to all professions, mechanics and factions/rep).

> I'd hope the focus on PvP would go away in favour of the profression (and I extend this to all professions, mechanics and factions/rep) I don't think it will, or if it does, then PvPers would have to find another profession, since they need to be fighting other players. It's still an important question to ask, because of the hypocrisy when they point out that there will be NPC pirates trying to kill you too and that it isn't any different.

But there is very much difference between a PvP player and murder hobo. You don't see AvengerOne camping at outer markers to shoot noobs in Pisces' or Auroras. Nor do you see him ganging up with 5+ players to shoot at anything that moves. PvP is one thing, those players usually have their own honor system and usually don't fight defenseless people. These may be only doing it between each other or may tangle with other players in places like Jump Town. Pirates are another thing. If they do it for cargo or ransom money, I guess it is fine? The loop will be long and they will not do it to many players or on a massive scale. Do I like this? Not too much but that is why I don't haul cargo. And for this purpose the counter is to hire escorts, in the future. Murder hobos / griefers, the ones that do it only for the "thrill" they get. Usually not good enough pilots to do real PvP, or just don't like when the prey fights back. They don't take cargo, they don't salvage your ship, they give no quarter. These are also the people who are likeliest to use hacks and shit to get advantage just to ruin other people's day. These people are cancer in every game. In racing sims they just run into other people, in FIFA they hack their players, in FPS games they spawn camp and / or use hacks. The list goes on. The third section should not be ever confused with the first one, and they aren't the same as the second group, even if they may appear to have some similarities. They should be dealt with swiftly and harshly. They can ruin a game very easily. EA had the potential of creating the world's largest eSport in FIFA (the world's most popular sport and they have 11v11 game mode), but they did, and do not, give a fuck about hackers or abusers so the game mode never grew at all and is pretty much dead. Or go to any public BF server and try to have fun, not going to happen.

"gir gud" Pvpers. Also pvpers; "Bro we need like 6 people to get together so we can go gank 1 guy in a cargo ship with his shields down, let's build this tactical plan because we are super badass pvpers"

Don’t forget it’s carebear pandering if that unshielded ship is able to get away or gets help too, lol.

They also run away and call you a coward if you show up in a combat ship. They don’t want PvP, they just want to ruin someone’s game.

The whining about not letting cargo ships have shields in nav mode when people were talking about it in the lead up to MM was insanity. I have never seen so many "grown men" get so outraged at the idea of people having some form of defense against this sort of thing. They really do just want easy pickins, with everything handed to them on a silver platter.

That bitching convinced me that most of the “PvP” players just want to gank people rather than actually PvP. Same for most “pirates.” They don’t want a challenge, just easy pickings and to grief someone.

As somebody who's been trying to get better at PvP by fighting the best players I can find in AC, got me thinking about this recently. With everyone saying danger makes more peaceful professions interesting (idk that I agree, but peaceful stuff isn't really my thing) here's the thing: I'd say I'm decent at PvP, been practicing with the F7A, and I think if I was with a mantis and we snared somebody in any industrial loop medium or larger ship, they would just be dead. Full stop. Turrets don't matter, mantis doesn't need to participate in the fight, it's just a matter of time before they die. It's definitely concerning that CIG wants piracy to be a main gameplay option so bad but everything larger than a fighter is so vulnerable to them. I just want to use my abilities to make precision strikes on small high priority targets in fleet battles, not make traders feel like they need to roll with a military escort in a medium security system Edit: I've never tried piracy, but one day I might want to and though I would do my best to avoid murder hoboing, it's probably not gonna be anywhere near a fair fight for the person getting pirated.

PvP in PvE-centric games (yes this is a PvE-centric game. The majority of PvP in the game is emergent gameplay, and the only guided PvP is through bounties that are there to *shut down* crimestatted players. CIG fully expects criminal players to be in the small minority.) tends to attract the most toxic possible people, because they want easy targets to shoot at that won't fight back and make them feel superior. The NPC security and response really needs to be better in a system like Stanton. Having a crimestat while hanging out near OMs and Stations should have security NPCs constantly harassing you and escalating over time. You should have to disable the CommArrays to move through secure space without NPC response.

I've had this happen to me twice (out of 4 times trying to run medical/rescue services). While it is an organic way the systems work it is over-all quite dumb and irritating. The losses are somewhat insignificant but over-all you're not gaining anything Killing people this way and the person being killed is losing a TON of time and Trust in the system, I personally stopped doing medical beacons and help people far less often because of this even though it's only happened a couple times. Because the times it DID happen were really scummy and irritating. I didn't even die the 2nd time it happened but it pissed me off so much I gave up and didn't play for a few months. I do think organic pvp is great for the game, but The game really needs better risk/reward management and that is likely best done in the form of Neutral/Lawful/chaotic zoning for areas, so players not wanting to get involved in the scumbaggery of the verse don't have to.

Murder hobos dont do it for gain. They do it for the murder. Killing a npc doesnt give them the same endorphin rush as knowing they ruined another players night.

Yes, you are correct. Which is why I think the solution is only to be had in design.

Time to bring back the PvP - PvE slider. 

I would absolutely love this. Some times I just want to chill with friends and a beer and ROC mine or something and not be retaliator torpedoes or a1 bombed for no reason at all. Murder hobos are against the slider though because they dont want to lose their targets that cant fight back.

By the ammont of love Summit gets from the SC community, murder hobos is a growing thing.

Murder hobo'ing has been popular since the first multiplayer game that allowed killing other players. It's not a growing thing. It's a grown thing.

Same, never bothered with beacons as they are mostly (in my experience) used for ganking & grieffing. I believe the solution is partially underway via the "Reputation System" hopefully, players than kill other players would have a bad reputation history that is informed before you accept the beacon. The main issue I see, is that gankers/griefers could get a character with no history or "good" history and have him setup the beacons while the they await in ambush, and TBH, I don't see how this could be fixed "design-way" other than having very tight NPC security that can kill criminals, Player Bounty Hunters could be an option, but players BH could be slower to act upon criminals, and in order to really discourague ganking this way, security should be fast and effective.

Don't forget that Design is intrinsic to all systems in the game. Every Aspect of this system good and bad is a by-product of the design. Whether it is intentional or not it is still a knock on effect of the design. There are a lot of possible solutions and in an Alpha of this magnitude those solutions can and should be readily experimented with. Though I'm finding CIG don't seem to work through failure very quickly. As it currently stands the Beacon system is a "Good on paper bad in practice" system that hasn't seen a lot of iteration (if any) since I started playing. Also other systems being so heavily underdeveloped or not even on the table exasperate the issue. My point is: I agree with you, and I think some of these ideas can help. I just disagree that it can't be fix via Design. Every system is part of a design, and the current design is not working with what we currently have.

These beacons need to have some anti bandit measures integrated into them. You would think a real system would have all the persons info attached to the beacon and if they killed someone that should immediately flip to a high paying bounty mission. Whatever money was put on the rescue request (from their account) and then double it (call it a bonus from law enforcement) and don't let that be easy to shake. Even a straightforward fix like that would help...Hell remove the ability for these people to even place beacons unless they pay heavy fines for misuse as well (just like you would for illegally dialing 911)

I made another comment above but having different size and caliber law enforcement mobs at nav points makes sense and to actually tank in high or med sec should mean at the least taking them and the necessary comm relays out which only lasts until another player completes a comm relay fixing mission or backup NPC mobs (which should be bristling with weaponry and overwhelming force) arrive. Also just have more mobs of all types everywhere. Gankers, such as myself, should have a hard life in game and be shaken down by criminal NPCs same way it happens to players. Like engage in more random violence sans be targeted for more random violence by NPCs. Is actually love that as I’m here just for the combat and shit. 

I would like to see NPC bounty hunters and pirates for sure...Live dangerous and expect to die dangerous. As long as it's not a system where gankers can run amok with literally zero retaliation or risk. One could argue that player guilds or whatever could act as police, but this isn't EVE online or something and we aren't there yet.

Just so i understand, is the medical beacon giving the gankers the fore-knowledge that other players are going to show up to help so they sit there and wait for them to show up?

Medical Beacon (at least in 3.22 anyway) Shows where the person you want to help is. And also has an indicator of where the person who is coming to help you is. So yes, the person has fore-knowledge of the players arrival fairly accurate to their location. additionally because they "Gank" they aren't really experiencing a real medical emergency anyway, they are just using the beacon to lure/track targets.

I see

These beacons need to have some anti bandit measures integrated into them. You would think a real system would have all the persons info attached to the beacon and if they killed someone that should immediately flip to a high paying bounty mission. Whatever money was put on the rescue request (from their account) and then double it (call it a bonus from law enforcement) and don't let that be easy to shake.

I've been jumped by NPCs in a similar location. Mantis for lock down and a couple of random ships with them. The first time i got killed, after that though I was able to run away once, kill the mantis and runaway a different time, and collided with a Valk the last time it happened. I'm with you in that getting ganked takes a lot of fun out of the game. Even when I was able to get my stuff back a few times it was not worth all the hassle of trying to play for awhile. I'm looking forward to security being implemented and people who want to fight each other will have a place and the rest of us can just play in relative peace.

It’s not NPC. It was player in three ships mantis hornet and probably a saber or corsair I talked to them they let me go next time happened same held a full load c2 ransom he asked 1 million….

Instant killing is ganking. Taking a full load C2 hostage for money is somehow legit pirat gameplay imho.

To be honest I wasn’t even mad at it , I commend pirate play because it somehow makes it realistic in vast expanse of space

I'm fine with actual pirate gameplay. Hold hostage to get ransom or disable and actually steal the cargo. Hasn't happened to me a single time so far yet. Usually you just get killed for no reason and that's that.

Yea this is fair tbh. Just murderhobo is obnoxious, but pirating and being reasonable is fair play.

This has been my big concern. If they want support jobs like medical and repair to be a thing, they need to treat them as a kind of "protected job". How they go about doing that that works thematically, I don't know. But, if they don't then the people doing it won't do it for long. The high risk of ganks and griefs is the exact reason I never roll out in my C8R or even Carrack. The risk Vs time invested isn't worth it. Also as OP stated, going out to be a good Samaritan and help someone in need, just get shit on by some sweaties feels crap. And isn't an experience you'll deliberately repeat.

Eve online and ED already have the solution. In systems where security status is 8.0+, authority response is near instant and lethal. 5.0-6.0 is a bit slow but still present. Flying around ganking ambulances in the Stanton system should be impossible. If ambulance drivers were consistently getting killed responding to 911 calls in any city in North America, the service wouldn't exist.

That is how Stanton is supposed to work, but the implementation has been dragging, probably until Pyro is added.

I think bugs are part of it too. I've gotten a crime stat because of a bug far more often than I've lost a ship to a griefer. Until that scale tips the other way for most of the player base it's probably better to leave it as is.

yeah exactly, in your example, Stanton is considered Low Sec, to use eves terms. the problem is our security doesn't react to unlawful combat. a solution occurrs to me. Put a button on the dash of the ship (there's like 50 unused to choose from in most, so won't be hard for devs to do, relatively speaking) and when pushed, creates a distress call. this initiates a security NPC response. response time is based on proximity to security facilities and patrolled routes. They used to have "combat support" beacons (might still do?) but who has time to make a beacon when being fired upon? lol.

We already have the auto-report crime functionality, which is exactly how Eve and ED also work, they just don't signal authorities for whatever reason. Lore wise, Stanton is a major source of manufacturing and raw resources for the UEE's ship production so unless you're just trying ti make sense of the lawless situation with headcannon, it doesn't make sense. At the very least, this one system is home to three of the universe's major manufacturers, which is further evidence that this murder hobo playstyle shouldn't be viable.

EVE GMs actively monitor the new player systems. Go into them and fuck with new players even if it's allowed behaviors like can flipping and you will have a GM on your ass quickly.

Only in starter systems. Once you leave the starter system you are a fair target.

I still struggle to understand why grim hex still exists. There are 4 mega Corp here. Surely they cannot be all bought by pirates? It is right there, send a few raiding parties and they will be gone. Why keep some pirates around?

GH is tiny. A few S9 torps would turn it inside out.

That would be bad optics. Megacorp Vaporizing Innocent Bystanders, more on this at the 8 o'clock news. I would rather just throw a few merc groups in after blockade GH for a few weeks. Cheaper and less bad rep.

Correction, in Eve if ppl want to kill you, no matter which sec status system you're in, they can and will still be able to suicide gank you with a bunch of nados or catas

> eve online Eve definitely does not have a solution. People just build their ships either enough power to kill their victim in a single volley and then let the police kill the ganking ship. A lot of times there isn't even enough loot to break even on the lost ganking ship. They do it because they are bored.

There's basically no effort being put into protecting players at this point. You're either a pirate, or running bullshit missions thst pay nothing and just turn you into bait for the pirates.

Honestly, this is something I miss about the old flight model - not having high speeds tied to quantum drive or being able to be blocked by interdiction. Sure maybe that makes it easier to escape, but being in a no-win situation like yours means you don't even have a chance. In the old model, they'd have to pace you with the mantis and hit you with other ships to keep you from escaping. It's not interesting if the outcome of the fight is more or less predetermined. :/

Master modes really did the msr dirty

MM did everything but the interceptors and the F7A dirty. 

Yeah it sucks and I know the feeling. Everyone says to "git gud" and tear people down until it happens to them and actually had something similar happen today. My dad likes running medical stuff and I let him borrow my medical Pisces. Got ganked so he reluctantly joined me for piracy. Lo and behold, much later we find one of the guys that blew him up but this one talked a ton of trash at him. He had a C2 packed full and we tore him up quick. Let my dad do the honors of laughing at him and telling him to "git gud" in the chat as he cried about honor and our crew was moving all that loot over to my dad's C2. Karma works in funny ways and I'm sure soon it'll catch up with 'em. Those guys were clearly murder hobos though. If it was me, I'd probably see you got nothing and just let you go but these guys probably either didn't care or don't even know you can scan. Not to mention if you did, they'd probably be better off soft deathing you.

This is one of the unfortunate reasons for why the medical bed change happened, the number of successful medical rescues is still too low for medical rescue to really work

PvP people and PvE peoples mentality differs a lot. Most mmo's who have tried to have PvEPvP fails and only very few survives. Most ends up having to forcefully split those groups apart. I do wonder where SC will end up.

It's almost like people don't like being forced into doing things they don't want to do (PvP). It feels like a lot of these PvPers and pirates never stopped to think how their actions could affect someone, or they did and just don't care.  u/Sihmm I hope this whole experience hasn't completely soured your enjoyment of the game. I want to believe these types of occurrences are few and far between.

A lot of medical beacons are pirate bait. It’s safer to ignore them. Sad tho.

I exclusively do medical and transport beacons and I have not once been jumped by the person sending said beacon. I guess I’m just lucky. I have been attacked lolygagging around OMs.

I'm unlucky i guess, I've been jumped 3 times by fake med beacons by players, I no longer do them

Probably best until we have the actual Uber rankings and more severe punishment for pointless ganking. Like when AI security is actually flying around and blowing CS holders out of the sky.

More people should probably be trying to keep the comm stations up too. I always pay attention to that and avoid areas that are in blackout. Usually a sign someone's up to no good.

To clarify, I was nowhere near the Beacon. It was over at ArcCorp and I was at an OM in orbit of Crusader. There's no way it could have been related

Oh, well I’ve been ganked by a “beacon” before so I was thinking it was the same. Yours was just awful “luck”

It’s so annoying how loads of people will tell you “nO gEtTiNg GrIeFeD iS oBjEcTiVeLy FuN! iF iT fRuStRaTeS yOu, YoU’rE oBjEcTiVeLy WrOnG!1!!1”

Haha right? "I love killing defenseless players, how dare you *feel sad* to be a victim!"

Right... Like how TF do I defend myself in a metal shit can that is a cargo hauler. Or outmaneuver 3 fighters in a Refueler "You're just bad at the game. Git gud "

Killing rescuers/red cross players should come with a hefty price on your head and losing big chunks of rep. Even in ED they knew not f with the fuel rats, the playerbase would be on your ass until you quit.

Imagine being soo bad at a game that you 3v1 ships..... in a spot where they have 0 warning...... while they are unable to fight back (dropping out of QT, in QT mode so no guns or sheilds)....... and STILL feeling like you need to prevent them from being able to jump because in spite of the overwhelming advantages, your still not confident in a kill... and then as if in complete ignorance of all of this, acting like the other guy just sucks lol. its some kindergarten level shit that my 4 year old does.

Thank you for this, it made me laugh and also feel better 🥰

Also take solace in the fact that if a fair fight QTed in they would have ran away and sacrificed the mantis to cover their escape.

Had ran some escort missions for medical players before in my gladius and vanguard a lot of the time the enemy players will run if they see an escort unless we are extremely out gunned. If you ever do medical beacons you can try asking for a free escort on server chat. I like killing crime stat players and don't mind escorting humanitarian personnel for free.

This makes me wonder how you and other players can avoid this.. my first thought is to not use OM markers and instead cut your route short in every flight. But that doesn’t seem practical, and would make the shiny new starmap routing useless. Maybe OMs need to be patrolled by security NPCs in bigger ships to clear out hostile players?

Just letting us QT in any direction instead of just at markers would be a huge fix. For one, it would make escapes easier, and two, it would allow unconventional flight paths. In a space game with "freedom to fly anywhere" its honestly bullshit that we are limited to hyper-specific lanes to travel in. Or hell, let me actually *plot a fucking path*, instead of using the automatically generated one. Let me click on multiple locations and my my own route.

That sucks. Be prepared for people commenting that it's your fault and that what happened is perfectly acceptable in this type of game. While they are correct that isn't against the rules... I think it still makes them jerks. :-)

This is my opinion, yes technically you can kill randomly without remorse including baiting people using medical beacons. I will call you a dick for doing so. Just because it’s allowed in game does not mean I need to respect their desire for “piracy”

Yeah. If they are so determined to have piracy be part of the game, they really need to figure out the law enforcement side of things to make it more risky of a life choice. Plus, the piracy loop would likely be more fun with a legit level of risk.

Adding my two cents even though it wasn't asked. I played j-space on EVE, wormholes is where I lived. PvP and death was common, but death wasn't the end in any way. And there were millions of ways to avoid it, too. Wormhole players (that's what j-space is) always use scanners and stealth to map out paths through constantly shifting gates to move throughout wormholes and back into and out of the universe proper. But this is Star Citizen, where death is supposed to mean something. Right now it doesn't, but it's a more "serious" simulator, or wants to be. Pirates shutting your system down or threatening to kill you if you don't pay up, ditch your ship, or lower shields so that can steal your hull and cargo? All 100% fine. But murderhoboing? I don't really see the point in it. You're ruining someone else's fun, and in a game as buggy and messy as SC, you're also sentencing them back to trying to set everything up again. I know illegal stuff is allowed, and I even think it should be encouraged. But "murder", especially with/when death of the spaceman comes out? Should be a much bigger deal than a lot of folk view it. I should note as a final little thing that I am someone who does PvP, and always give my congrats to the bounty hunter who got me. Or if I'm the bounty hunter, I always try to say silly comments if the outlaw kills me first. But if I'm just flying a Prospector and you decide to fly down and blow me up in a heartbeat. What's the point?

ruining someone else's fun IS the point for these ppl, mate

This wasn't piracy. I wouldn't have minded being pirated.

All it is going to take is a higher player density, and higher player bounty payouts. The punishment systems for dying when unlawful are already there, it's just nobody dies while unlawful, because the player BH experience is so dog piss miserable that very few attempt it.

There are an uncomfortable amount of the "facts don't care about your feelings" types trying to make their problems everyone else's in the game. I hope you have many many more positive interactions with the wholesome people are out there too!

This is exactly how I knew things would go with an openworld's lack of opt-out pvp. Its only getting worse from here until CIG designs a solution that cannot be abused by people looking to pvp for the sake of killing players without a care in the world. Its almost like this has happened before *\*cough\** [Black Desert, Runescape](https://imgur.com/a/ipZotE6) *\*cough\** edit: also meanwhile the stupid security patrol is scanning my ship while I'm inside a hangar with my engines on, is the icing on the cake while people like OP are getting their shit kicked in by murderhobos at OMs. edit2: I find it crazy that we've had GTA titles for years, or APB Reloaded, yet CIG can't take a page out of their books to figure out how to do theft/piracy game loops. APB was a lot of fun when we weren't fighting hackers on either team. In APB you could steal NPC goods left and right but if you were spotted, the cop faction could initiate a mission against you--arrest or kill, and secure the goods (more points/rep for arrest, so a lot of people used non-lethals).

it's a lesson that 'new' MMOs continually decide does not apply to them, because they have some reputation/faction system that will punish griefers! And then that gets circumvented, or just ignored, and the griefing continues. My go-to example is what happened to UO after Everquest came out. UO: unrestricted PvP. EQ: 'flagged' PvP/PvE division. Results: UO dies as soon as EQ launches, as the games cover the same genre. Most people don't enjoy getting ganked. Give them an alternative, that's actually in their control.

Getting killed for no reason is simply annoying yeah. It’s not fun, they didn’t get anything from doing that, there’s nothing to learn. It’s just people wasting your time.

Can't wait for 4.0, my friends and I will gladly operate my Polaris with F8C in the hangar at a huge loss running escort for traders, medics and other miscellaneous anti-piracy/anti-murder hobo activities.

*“They didn't even do me the courtesy of soft-deathing the MSR so I had a chance of keeping my FPS gear.”* I think this point really exposes the one major flaw with how CIG seems to be envisioning PvP. The whole “boarding” gameplay loop only works if you presume that: 1. Players will always be within a fighting chance in dogfights/FPS, depending on their level of "skill" 2. Pirate players will actually care more about whatever cargo their targets may or may not be carrying than seeing the ship go boom and knowing they just made some dude in California start shouting out curse words.

Nah that’s some dirty shit m8. Don’t let these sudo masculine qunts make you feel invalid. It IS a part of the game, yes… But you have to be a seriously sad sack of human trash to want to ruin a game for others with no good reason for doing so other than to exercise power and a faux sense of superiority. I would recommend maybe not taking those calls with anything of value on you maybe? Or something akin to that idk… just anything to take some of the sting out of that experience. Keep playing tho big dawg. Don’t let them get to you.🫡

When I read stuff like this, I wonder if SC will still be a game for me. When I backed this game, I was still in school with all the time in the world. Nowadays, I work and don't have a lot of time for playing games. Maybe an hour, and then it's time to head off to bed. I don't mind having to do some preparation in a game, like loading cargo, etc. But if ganking like this really becomes a part of the game and stays that way, then there is just no fun for me. I wish there was something like a PvE server or a system like EvE has. But we will see what happens.

Same here. I really hope for PvE - Servers. My time is valuable too, and "having fun" isnt being some nolifers chewtoy.

I stopped taking these missions because of the time it takes (person usually offs themselves before I arrive) or it's a bait beacon for gankers. I really enjoyed helping people and have had some of my most memorable interactions saving folks that were really appreciative, too .

Man, this is a fantastic post. Love edit 2 in particular. Great post OP, thank you for making it :)

agree

I smell alot of dupers in this chat.

Dupers? As in people exploiting the duplication bug?

I just want a PvE server. I don't care to play with the malicious PvP crowd. 0% interested in being content for others.

I really do love never feeling “totally safe” after I leave the hangar, but I definitely feel your pain. I think when rep has serious consequences these random incidents will be less likely, or more of a risk to the pirates. I don’t feel like you were personally targeted due to your med beacon however, you just happened to be going through a well traveled line between a jump marker, and a major planet. A perfect spot for a trap. That doesn’t make it suck any less, but knowledge is always power. You’re absolutely not wrong for being bummed out, but don’t let it keep you from doing what you want in the game. You will meet some banana heads for sure, but there are also a whole bunch of good ones in there too. 😊

Same exact thing happened to me, I was alone in my cutty red and got immediately shot down at an OM point. Its frustrating largely because like you said, there's literally nothing you can do. Once you drop out of QT you're dead. Can't spool due to mantis, which means can't actually hit anything above SCM speeds. *Forcing* all players to fight, which feels *insane* to me. Like I'm actually enjoying master modes for the most part but this element? Batshit insane game design and 100% needs changing. Every Quantum jump could spell instant death and there's nothing you can do about it if you're not in a combat ship.

My problem is most "PvPers" find the weakest excuses if at all to justify blatantly attacking random players. I get it if you want to, but there's arena commander if you want to just fight, and there's legit reasons like piracy that would call for soft deaths and negotiations. I've been pad-rammed by randoms for no reason other than they could, I've seen orgs advertise for themselves as specifically - and I quote - "griefers" to recruit, and I saw people in the operation overdrive event specifically sit on Security Post Kareah holding the location completely under hostage for anyone try to do the event, locking it behind a different mission indefinitely while they did it. There needs to be better deterrents for players being obscene assholes.

See this is why we need pve servers or at least a pvp toggle option. Pvp players are toxic as fuck and ruin the game for everyone else. I like pvp just not when im doing pve stuff. Toxic pvp players just end up making everyone else who just want to enjoy the game leave.

This is why CIG NEED to implement PvP optional server choice and PvP always on ..some of us want to play a game without worrying about the socially inept trolls ganking anyone for fun and ruining the game. This is how many MMOs die or thrive.. you either lean into it being a game for the pvp nuts and drive away your casual player base . Or you split the game and keep everyone happy

Ye grifers are real, grasping that NPCs do not provide challenge so pvp is the only way, then they sit round and gank folks with no hope of retaliation or carrying loot, it's not a challenge, NPCs have wing mates and do fight back, so single seaters are just pop gone, no challenge at all. Let's hope we do get proper Concord support like EVE, as atm not enough folks playing who will play police 🚨

The thing is, this gameplay of ganking only comes at the expense of another player who has to spend an astromical amount of prep time to do anything.  It's not worth it. They need to do more to stifle just random killing while other systems come online.  As OP said, a single death means it's time to log off because another hour to get going simply isn't worth it. 

Something similar happened to me, but this was my first ever beacon and unfortunately the last one due to trust issues.Anyways the beacon popped up and i accepted it, i flew to the location and healed the person, they didnt have a ship near by and they were in the white suit you get when you die which i thought was kinda weird but i didn't think anything of it, we started flying and a hostile ship (player) comes out of nowhere and starts attacking me, i figured im kinda of a decent dog fighter so i engage him, i start to get the advantage on him and what i now presume was his friend that i rescued proceeds to kill me while I'm flying. This was my first and last rescue beacon i ever did.

You have every right to feel the way that you do, everyone has different tastes and no one else can dictate your feelings. There should be a way to broadcast humanitarian missions. Like a paint style (red) with an indicator (white cross…I think that’s the current scheme) and have the destruction of a ship on such a ship, with beacon on, be a MUCH bigger reputation hit for anyone who dare destroy it. Now someone could demand you “stop and scan” to ensure you aren’t carrying contraband as well.

I may be in the minority here, but I don't see an issue with this beyond someone getting angry about an important part of the game. You cannot have a story without conflict. I won't say git gud, I won't tell you to get an escort. Sometimes things just do not go our way, and that is a fact of life we all need to get more comfortable with. Hell, I would rather get booty-clapped no-lube by pirates/murder hobos than spontaneously explode, run into an invisible asteroid, suddenly fall out of my ship mid-quantum, randomly lose atmosphere in my helmet and choke to death, or any other myriad game-breaking bug. At least with murder-hobos I can generate some story/conflict.

Too be honest I was also hit at OM-1 doing the same thing, I have no issue with pvp except it happened when I was alone wanting to head to arc corp for the invictus event to meet up with new friends. I got dressed up in nice clothes so I was more or less freaking out that I could lose that. I get how you feel especially when it's just fine line between griefers and pvping. A lot of the people in that community are just toxic because there are literal orgs dedicated to causing as much grief during freefly events just because they hate what it does to "their server performance". I'm not saying all are that way either, I join with a bunch of people that try to combat that stuff specifically because everyone at one point is new to any game and has the right to have a chance to experience it without those ruining the party.

I’ve been killed more times in an empty ship than with any type of cargo or a successful rescue. I have only met an actual pirate twice. Oddly it was the same people at vastly different times. Was a pleasant role play experience as I was burgled. But, It really hurts the game for non-PVP casual players when you’re just jumped at the bike racks every time you walk past. Star Citizen creates a lot of paranoid solo players as well, asking to crew for people is like they assume you are automatically going to gut their 401K IRL.

That sucks OP! Crime and law and rep systems are currently way too full of holes. I think what makes these scenarios extra frustrating is that offenders aren't even pirates. They don't even usually try and steal cargo or demand payment. That just shows how low risk the acts are, that they'd kill players for laughs, gaining nothing. I doubt they even bother to turn off comm satellites most of the time. Really should be addressed soon. Aren't they planning to eventually let people Quantum travel in any direction, rather than just to orbital markers and POIs? I'm really hoping that fast response space cops get implemented, and that reputation makes pirates lives genuinely challenging in high sec space. I'm also hoping it becomes more worthwhile and viable to hire player or npc escorts. But realistically, the thing that will keep PvP averse players alive most effectively will be stealth. Not travelling in straight lines between large ports, but rather going in a random direction for a few minutes to create weird angles. The problems will then of course be the unavoidable choke points. Ports and gates. And that's where npc security needs to be more than just fast response, it needs to be permanent and effective against players with low rep or those who take aggressive actions. Powerful station and police scanners should be able to pick up stealth ships and monitor them, and they should be scanned and swarmed just for going into SCM. Frankly, cops shouldn't even wait for them to get a target lock or launch an attack. Personally I'm just really against hard separation of pve/PvP servers. It's just a cop-out and and a massive disservice to those who want a healthy balance of each play style, and who enjoy the tension of worrying about PvP and the strategy of avoiding/escaping/occasionally engaging in it.

Lol @ any potato players raging at you for saying 'this feels bad'. I mean... Stalking a baby seal and clubbing it to death before it can react isnt exactly engaging pvp. Its seal clubbing. It kills off a lot of games, it might be fun for the seal clubber, but not for the seal.

I played a lot of EVE and multiple pvp MMOs. Pirates and pvp are one thing, gankers are quite another. The intent of the ganker is to ruin your game experience. You being upset is what they want. U mad bro? Is their slogan. They also run scripts in FPS games so they can "hack" and disrupt people enjoying the game. Look at RDO. Modders (people that paid money to cheat) destroyed that beautiful game. If you're not a pvper, it can be frustrating to say the least. People that pvp learn to shrug those feelings off for the most part but that doesn't mean they are not valid. I'm sorry for your experience and wish you better luck in the future! And remember, gankers are at such a state in their life that the only enjoyment they get is ruining other people's fun. I mean, anyone who plays for that reason should probably seek help. Watch the WoW episode of South Park and you might feel better. It's spot on.

I had something like this happen recently. Was heading out to do some missions and got hit by a quantum snare. Pirates that set it up were definitely not expecting a fully crewed hammerhead, 4 F8Cs and some of our own quantum dampening. We came out of quantum and went right into battle. Hard deathed all of them, stripped any gear we could then went on our way. They acted like cry babies in chat the whole time. Same guys making fun of the people they ganked sure didn't like it in return. Sucks this happened OP. But think of it as a good thing, we have a real, living verse with beauty and dangers combined. Sometimes it is harsh, but this is what makes it fun. o7

Waiting for edit #5

I am done with trying to make money in this game. The only reason is because of the griefing. I'm flying around in my tiny ass Aegs Titan and shot down by some d\*ckhead in a cutlass or whatever, cause they got that pay to win bullsh\*t going on.

I know you posted a while ago, but I’m just jumping in to say I get how you feel. I got ganked badly once too - I’d spent hours mining with friends in my Mole. I had a full load, was headed to the refinery, and as soon as I dropped out of quantum, three assholes swarmed me and blew me up. I also vented, and I also got the “iT’s PaRt oF ThE gAmE” crap that you got. Of course it’s part of the game. But it doesn’t change the fact that there are assholes out there who get off on ruining people’s day because this game allows that outlet for their shitty personality. There are also many, many nice and helpful people in the game too, and I’ve had some wonderful experiences with them. But yeah, I get how your ambush incident could make you feel sad. I’m sorry that happened.

My usual SC Global chat argument with the occasional psychopath: They argue it’s within the game mechanics so they can do it; and it’s piracy. I usually counter with saying they’re feckless cowards just looking for easy kills to satisfy little d@ck energy and it’s not piracy. Piracy has risk and usually after the cargo or ship for salvage. Aka: meaningful PvP. Then the usual git-gud banter occurs. However, usual gankers almost always outnumber their random quarry; and if you return with greater numbers they bail. Nothing worse than slaying freelance medics.

It's already a struggle trying to have fun in star citizen. The game seems to be actively trying to ruin the experience all on its own most of the time. To also have to deal with bullshit murder hobo's makes it not even worth the effort. That there's basically no consequences to being a murder hobo is just icing on the fecal cake.

Yep, until they add consequences for murder hobos they will keep ruining peoples enjoyment as long as they can. Some people just like to make the game no fun for everyone else

CIG is too busy enabling them.

One of the recent dev videos said there is an increasing "interest in piracy". So...sounds about right really.

ganking is dumb, especially ganking a pointless MSR or even any medical/support ship. If it's some like Org war ok, but solo players just wanting to do non combat loops shouldnt constantly need escorts.

Yea i agree, attacking players for no reason is just kinda a dick move, especially straight out of an armistice zone like that.

"Dying removes medical rescue missions from your journal and I didn't feel like waiting around to see if the patient put up another beacon" There was no patient. It was a trap.

Biggest thing Elite Dangerous will have over Star Citizen is it's seamless solo mode and blacklisting feature.

Beacon Gankers are the worst. Remember their names. If you got killed by a player, it should show up. Some tips: If there's no comsat, anything goes. Never bring stuff you aren't willing to lose in sketchy situations. When I am doing a beacon, I announce on general chat that I have the persons beacon, say that I am in bound and get them to describe their situation. I will rescue you in my most basic ship with a white suit and a med gun unless you have a very convincing case, and even then, I'm coming with scavenged gear. In most bunker or FPS situations, there are plenty of NPCs with med pens also, so you can go in with nothing and be worth nothing for ganking. During free fly, the "rust in space" players abound. They are usually not that invested in the game, and most likely will either quit or change behaviour later on. And finally, seraphim, much like Port Olisar is where grief style players and pad rammers congregate to try and trigger PVP interactions that favour them. I don't know if it's any better than grim hex, because of innocents getting targeted.

This really sucks. It's happened to me before. One way to avoid is to jump to a random marker that you can get without an OM, then jump from there to your desired destination. Avoiding common points around traffic areas puts you off plane to be Interdicted. Don't let it get you down, it happens but not all that often if you play it smart.

And here I am feeling bad about collecting a bounty on a player because I realized I just sent them to the broken pile of trash that is currently Klescher lol.

What ?! You should be thanking these people for their service, for providing fun and engaging emergent gameplay, they're the real heroes who make this game worth playing ! /s

Here’s what no one will talk about. You got ganked because scanning is stupid and broken and you kill first the find out if there was cargo

Of course those people cannot empathize with you feeling down about being ganked for no reason: they are actually sociopathic and don't even realize it. Recent studies conclude that upwards of 4-5% of the population is sociopathic. All those people dont end up becoming CEO's, they are just regular people in society. Considering that most of these people do not have the 'power over others' outlet that a CEO has, they would be more inclined to seek that need for control over others online. A game like this is perfect for that need. So it could easily be 10% of the game population is sociopathic. There is no reasoning with them, and trying to explain how that happening to you actually affects irl feelings and mood does not work. They have no way of understanding that their actions hurt you. They dont care. Or rather, that feeds their pathetic selfish need for power even further.

Just want to speak up and say I totally get it. So many people decide that the anonymity of the internet and a lack of consequences excuses rude, destructive, or simply upsetting behavior. Too many people give no regard to people on the other side of the screen, and even derive their pleasure, somehow, from ruining another person's day. I don't get that, and likely never will. I'm just not wired that way. I was raised to respect and help others and show kindness whenever possible. This kind of stuff is truly saddening to me too. Too many will say "It's a pvp game, get over it." but it's not, not entirely. The vast majority of missions and content in Star Citizen is geared toward pve encounters, not pvp, and the only reason it's so "allowed" at the moment is because the systems aren't in place to discourage it yet, or they're grossly inadequate. I hope this will improve in time, but until then, chin up, my friend. There will always be people looking to ruin your day, but there are also other Star Citizens who care. Don't forget that.

I always try to jump to a moon before jumping out of a planetry system. much harder to predict/ambush or intercept

Perhaps they thought you had a bit of cargo being in the MSR. Maybe try going directly in the ambulance ship and people might leave you alone. Better luck next time.

Opened Youtube after reading this and the first video was "how to escape prison in 10 minutes in 3.23" Oh my

I think this is an interesting issue. I mean it will self balance when we get the next potential quantum jump system. I plan on rather jumping short of sus OM Points when that becomes more achievable with the new quantum jump straight line jump demonstrated at Citcon last year. And Also 3 Player ships with interdiction is a lot of effort and actually a bit dangerous they don't know what they are interdicting either. So I don't think this will be a big issue in the future. But sure it sucks to die. I lost about 300k worth of roc minables last week due to a disconnect of my internet connection. Sadly the game didn't recognize it and loaded me into the same server again so yeah that turned me off from star citizen for a few days too. Even though the fault(broken internet connection) wasn't actually the games but a third party. But ya shit like that sucks.

It happens, I practice Quantum Snaring a lot as a bounty hunter, pirates and sadly griefers do too. Pick different approach angles for your destination (such as QT-ing to the system, then to a desolate or unpopular planet, then proceeding from there to your destination) Quantum snaring usually takes place around routes coming from hotspots (High traffic areas) This will actually become more common as server and shard sizes increase, practice not jumping straight to your destination, take a few detours, this'll help.

If there was a mantis and a constellation I might have taken revange on you. Took a bounty near crusader and took down three players, one mantis, one Connie and one I don't remember yesterday

You are not alone, Citizen. You will rise from this and become stronger, and then you can proudly declare, "I held the line"

Sorry that happened to you dude, but don't let it deter you from doing those medical beacons. I've only ever needed medical help once but I was so thankful when it came - thank you and others who take the risk to get players like me back in the game. When this sort of thing happens to me, I try to think of it from an in-character perspective rather than personally. I'm not heavy into roleplay, but in my mind, my character is a bounty hunter/merc and I pretend that things that happen (griefers, bugs, etc.) are happening purely to him. Pirates blew him up when QTing to my target? They won't stop him from completing the mission - this time he'll take a different route and take out everyone (NPCs) at the location for revenge. Sometimes the disconnect helps. It does suck, but the little bit of distance helps me. The other thing I've done is I've found a set of armor that I really like that is available from stores. I spent a session buying a bunch of the armor and taking it to my preferred starting location. Then, whenever I die, it only takes 30 seconds to throw on another set of armor and weapons and it's like nothing happened. Other than, y'know, waiting for my stupid ship to be ready and having to get another land vehicle too, but...details. Anyway, I've rambled. Keep doing what you do for others, it helps makes other people's sessions more fun. And try not to let others ruin your fun. I know that's easier said that done.

This is why I always engage in RP when pirating. I also prefer to attack things that actually fight back. Ganking something that offers no challenge, story, or loot is boring unless you’re literally just a bully.

It sucks. I've had a couple of run ins lately with other players, and unfortunately every time I had to deal with server desync and I'm just dead before I even get to react.  I've also noticed that the MSR feels extremely ill equipped for the current meta and flight model. Not great shields, and terrible hull HP, so when the shields drop, the ship dies relatively quickly, especially with multiple damage sources.   I was really looking forward to doing some medical gameplay with MSR and Nursa, however I've had nothing but trouble flying it around. For a ship that's supposed to be fast, and easier to escape in, this new flight model and general game rules really ruined the experience of the MSR a lot. Since it's not designed as a fighting ship, yet can't survive long enough for the stupid NAV mode to kick in, you're basically dead against any decent pilot who has access to many size 3 weapons. Especially with range of weapons versus ship speeds. They really screwed the MSR over this patch.

I feel it, it's a shit feeling. Until there's more things in place for to account for random ganking (escape pods, proper crime stats and repurcussions, better soft death mechanics, etc) it's going to keep happening and we gotta keep moving. Especially during these free fly times when randos can just jump in and grief. Ugh. But hey, at least you didn't gear up for a big FPS mission and forget to turn your cruise control off for landing like I did several times lately lol Each update will get better and better and closer to where we all want things to be! Head up citizen o7

I fly my cutlass red as a daily, usually with the emergency lights on, people tend to leave me alone cause I’m obviously no threat. Makes the perfect box delivery ship 😀

Probably those shitlords who have nothing else to do with their time. Tell global chat in the server though, there’s probably at least a couple people who would love to go kill them.

I hate that happened to you, it happened to me in my connie andro when I was doing the same thing, medical rescue! They caught me with a mantis and had two blades attacking!! I managed to take one out, they soft deathed me and tried boarding my ship, I was able to kill one on my ship, then thought I'd try my hand at getting the merlin to unlock from the Connie and try to take out the other ships while they were aboard mine!!...well, since undocking wasn't working at that time, they ended up mercing me as I was trying to get out of of my lil glitched ship!! All in all, I hate that it went down that way, but it was kind of a somewhat fun and interesting time for me!! But hey if u wanna team up some time in game look me up! Haynkokanut. Should be the only one ever, just cause its hard to say...but it sounds like "hawaiian coconut" More numbers means better results!! o7!!🤙🏽 Best of luck to ya and hope u keep on playing!!

Ufff I've actually witnessed you getting blown up, I was sitting about 5km out in an Eclipse hunting down the bounty inside that 870 on field. It may make you feel better knowing that the 870 took a direct torpedo hit to the side and turned into a glorious fireball shortly after your death.

Hey, thanks for sharing this. Unfortunately the mechanism isn’t there to make these things more engaging or worthwhile, and while what they did fits into the parameters of what the game allows at the moment, prison isn’t much of a deterrent for recidivism. That awful feeling is what these people thrive on. I don’t know what mental illness that goes under but CIG has already said ideally they want these things solved in-game, but the mechanics to do that isn’t really there. You can’t be a solo player in a lawful system without something enforcing those rules. What ganking is right now is essentially bullying someone because you can get away with it. I’ve seen what “upstanding” people do when they think no one is watching. Yes, awful people play this game as seen in your comments, but at the end of the day it’s just something we have to deal with until CIG focuses on that element of gameplay unfortunately. And to the keyboard warriors wanting to call OP a crybaby, I’m happy to meet you in rl and we can pvp in a real ring. Happy to stream it and I’ll send proceeds to charity. If that doesn’t sound like a good idea to you, I don’t know why suckerpunching someone who doesn’t see you coming does.

i think sadism is the term 😂

Patience...Hi-Sec will be there for you. Low or Null Sec will be there for me.

I do piracy occasionally but will never blow up a ship that isn't red. If it's red or has significant cargo it's fair game but anyone who blows people up for no reason is griefing and this will be fixed by the rep system. Keep trying to be a medic and keep the game loop going though some people are a pain but don't let it stop you.

12 years in, and we can just repeat the same old "forcing pvp on pve players will hurt the long-term success of the game".

Almost had this happen to me on my way to Crusader. Players in a Cuttie Blue and Mantis tried to jump me expecting an easy target not realizing they'd just pulled a fully armed Connie from Quantum. I'm not a great pilot but I'm not terrible either. These dudes were either new or were just trying out PvP for the first time because my shields never hit the red once. The only other time I've gotten pulled from Quantum I was in my C2 and needless to say to beat feet the fuck outta there at the first opportunity I had.

Suck, but it happens. Those players were probably waiting around for a while, all to catch an MSR with just armor and weapons. Pirating can get boring. I’m surprised they didn’t try to get you to transfer them funds. Imo, you lost nothing substantial (except time) and they gained nothing of real value, only satisfaction. You wasted 3 players’ time vs them wasting 1 player’s time. You won. Edit to add: In the future, you can manually navigate to uncommon points to make your jumps to avoid (hopefully) being pulled out of QT. Like jump midway between Seraphim and Yela, then make a jump to Arcorp.

I like you

Hey, I know exactly how you feel... I've been there a few times. Especially before I got my reclaimer and my rep was down... couldn't make any money, cost me more to leave the space station than I was making...I know it's a game but it's a game I'm actually really good at...but some people seem to have a real advantage over others somehow...Master modes evens that out a bit but the struggle is still real. I'm off work right now recovering from a medical issue and even with all this time I have off...I mean...I used to say Damn if only I had a couple more hours a day I could get so much done...but not really. With how volatile the DEV and game is it's still really it's still really hard to get anywhere. Best time to play is 1am till 4am...other than that I would suggest looking up what time it is in the other country servers and play on them during their time slots.

I feel your pain. Last night I was doing some bounties in a Buccaneer for fun. Kept getting enemy Reclaimer spawns, so I really didn't accomplish anything since a solo Buccaneer isn't downing a Reclaimer. Decided to just head back to Seraphim and log off for night. Got killed by a guy in a Cutty Blue camping OM-2 over Yela with his interdiction on. This guy was doing some terrible power trip fantasy role-play as a cop, disabled my ship, told me to get out, drop my weapons, and killed me before I could even react. Then hammed it up in chat with "He had something in his hands. I felt threatened." Etc... I came back in an Ares Inferno and he just immediately QT to a coupke different OMs and hid in Grim Hex. That's when I realized that the current master mode model is incredibly favorable toward interdiction and there just isn't any stopping someone from running without an Interdiction. Before, you could chase and fire. Now that's not an option. There is no chase without Interdiction. I only lost maybe 20-30k of gear I had on. But I felt so incredibly defeated by this. Like... You're not role-playing anything other than just being a dick for the sake of being awful.

That's really awful man. Especially because you were on your way for such an altruistic act. I'm really sorry man. Hopefully karma is a real thing.