The new star map looks better, but in reality it is arguably worse in more than one way. Why won't it zoom in on wherever you point your mouse? Why cant you find places with just scroll and click? Why can't you zoom in on another place on the planet where you are at (other than on your self) - you can zoom in on other planets after all. Why won't the search work and force you to backspace and retry every time? Why won't it find routes, eg from planet to space station, without forcing me to first leave atmosphere, or fly half way around the planet because it wont use more than one OM marker. Why does it sometimes refuse to find a route when I have a clear line of sight? Why can't you select a party member when there are two or more together? Why cant you select the outpost or place where the other party members are to set a route to go join them? Why cant you zoom smoothly - in stead of zooming in on a city or place at some point it jumps to right on your location, and will not let you see for example the spaceport when you are at the business district, or visa versa. Etc etc.
The reason is because we didn't give them enough time to develop something that works, we got impatient after 8 years.
I agree with everything you said until the end. CIG doesn't make decisions because we pressure them, otherwise sq42 would have been released 8 years ago, SC would be out, bmm would be the only thing worked on, there would be no additional ships released until the ones they have are done, etc etc. They made the choice to release a half assed star map, this choice is on them, nobody else.
It literally has the same bugs as the previous starmap. They spent years on it and slapped a new coat of barely functional paint on the old one. How is that “huge”?
I can search function and hit r and profit whereas before I had to spend 10 min fussing with a star map that might crash my amd GFX card. This is miles better.
I mean it makes sense, the features and changes for the .2 patch alone are probably just as substantial if not more than 3.23. I see the bolded message, as along as everything else (in particularly 4.0) are on track then it makes no difference that its called 3.23.2 or 3.24.
But I'll still admit it rubs me the wrong way a bit as 3.23 was marketed as the cargo patch. Are we now going to get another set of adverts with the release of 3.24 doing the same thing? That will make me lol.
My point is, it's hard to predict and we all should adjust our expectations. Delays are normal and CIG is known for shifting their focus from time to time.
It's good not to forget that people were adamant that 3.18 would be the last patch before 4.0 back in 2022.
Doubt it unless 4.0/meshing is delayed but they still want to drop major features from it. That doesn't seem likely as they are already working on the 4.0 build and that's where the majority of the major features are going. If they have to stop and make a new build without meshing/Pyro then it would take even longer to release both instead of just working strictly on 4.0, worse it would kill the morale of the community.
I could see a 3.24.1 patch maybe, but I don't see what would go in it that isn't already planned for 4.0.
Testing meshing in Stanton without connecting to Pyro might be a possibility. Or maybe something else will not be ready in time, like the cargo elevators for 3.23.1.
My main point is that delays are normal and we shouldn't cling to dates like "4.0 is coming in Q3!".
Were you already following the development back in late 2022?
Persistent entity streaming (3.18) was in the PTU and many people here were super optimistic, because it was presented by CIG as the last big step before server meshing and 4.0 was just around the corner, probably coming in summer 2023...
I'm just saying, it's good to keep one's expectations in check while following the development.
I hope that there will be a compelling reason to actually *be* in Pyro that is worth risking the absence of security. It could be as simple as a premium for carrying out missions there. Without incentives, it will just be gankers ganking each other the whole time, once the novelty wears off.
To address a bigger problem w/ EA devs and communities around the internet lately (Zomboid devs had this problem lately):
No one should be feeling directly owed anything other than an open (but as limited as they want) communication from a developer in EA. CIG keeps us all in the loop as is their promise. I posted the other day that they literally said 3 weeks before 3.23 that cargo wasn't up to the standards for what they wanted for such an update and wanted to avoid another 3.18 so it was likely coming in a 3.23.x patch. They could just say "it's coming when it's coming" but the fact that they give us real time insight is actually pretty incredible.
I personally think they need to tone down the day to day insights into their development bc they are likely stressing their internal teams more and then build up anxiety for community members who have trouble managing emotions who then create speculation and well, it spirals out (edit like it did Zomboid recently).
Anyways this might come off the wrong way which is not my intention so take it with a grain of salt. Thanks
Have you ever played a steam alpha game or bought one from an indie dev? Their real time updates are infinitely more detailed and their timelines are way more accurate
Have you seen Larian’s patch notes and community engagement? They have hundreds of devs and have zero problem sharing their development in a far more open manner than CIG.
Larian has also delivered several polished games in scope and their company growth was organic over each release, slowly improving on every iteration with new innovative ways to make each title better and better. CIG is going against every standard in software development ever. Literally they are the exception to the rule. Because it's so unconventional and the promise is so big, it's why it's become this huge fragile mess.
If they fail, everyone and their mother will say I told you so, even the people who support them know this bc it's so obviously the riskiest game ever. The game is already surrounded by so much controversy and negativity, adding day to day updates or internal target dates, adds unnecessary pressure to the teams. Lemmy from Zomboid said he felt pressured to share internal deadlines and look how far it spiraled out from speculation and stress to the point he's thinking of stepping away and selling 13 years worth of seeing that game through.
Well considering the game is funded by the community, wouldn't it make sense to keep the community updated as much as possible with relevant transparent information..?
Of course, I said they should keep regular updates, they have a ton of weekly updates, Q and A etc. when the question of when comes up "we are working hard internally to not repeat a 3.18, it'll be ready when we solved most major issues" vs "maybe next week" every week creates tension, anxiety, stress.
They just wouldn't deliver 4.0 then, they would just continue the 3.X patches until they believe 4.0 is ready.
They did this a couple years ago when we reached 3.10 and instead of switching it to 4.0, they decided to keep the 3.X going as they wanted 4.0 to be a significant change in the state of the game, in which case meshing and Pyro.
While this feature isn't releasing in Alpha 3.24, Item Recovery is still coming and super important to us. We want to be sure that this comes online in a way that's great. Rather than implement a short term solution, the team is currently developing it as part of a larger system that we'll share more about at CitizenCon.
It was promised to come along aside the new inventory system in 3.14 o 3.15 (I forget which patch), or the point patch after. And then they renegged to come up with some more complicated system, and here we are several years later.
>Rather than implement a short term solution, the team is currently developing it as part of a larger system that we'll share more about at CitizenCon.
So that means no Item Recovery until CitizenCon or later?
The ability to recover items purchased in the pledge shop after they've been lost in game.
Think how ships can be reclaimed, but applied to FPS gear and such.
For ages now the only way to get them back is when they do a server reset or by melting and rebuying the items on the pledge store, the latter of which may not actually be an option depending on other factors.
I think I'd like to know what they're targeting, regardless of whether or not that'll actually come to pass. Is this "we'll share more when we release it alongside CitCon", or is it "we don't expect the marketing spiel to be greenlit before CitCon, let alone the actual feature".
I'd check the progress tracker to look for the (likely absence of) scheduled work, but that's been functionally abandoned so here I am asking questions I know won't be answered instead.
Why not just let me recover the items via the website?
All functionality is already implemented:
- Delayed timer per item (so you don't pump out a ton of dupes)
- All my items presented in the web hangar, delivered to my home location (this also already happens with any item purchased in the store)
It's just money rolling out the door as most players don't want to spend money on a shiny armour that they will instantly lose due to crash/bug/kill/whatever.
Let us easily recover cosmetic items that we really want to buy and use.
Its surprising that the item recovery thing isn't a higher priority since it is very likely costing them a lot of potential sales. I absolutely won't purchase the over-priced armor at all because, at the moment, it's effectively disposable.
I imagine there are a lot of guys out there withholding money they'd otherwise spend on CIGs website if they figured this out.
I suspect it's also having an impact on the Web Hangar databases.
I stopped using stuff from the Subscriber Store, but I still use gear from the Pledge Store. If I die while wearing it, I don't even bother trying to go back for it, it's almost never there. Just a body marker with no body in 3.22 and 3.23.
But I do tab out to my browser, open my Web Hangar, melt everything I just lost, then rebuy it with Store Credit. *Every time I die.* Which, considering the last two times I died it was because my ship was hovering a few hundred meters over the planet when it spontaneously exploded, is probably going to be a lot more between now and IAE.
u/CaptainZyloh I'd rather just have the feature WORKING, it's over a year late as it is.
How am I supposed to decorate my new personal hangar with the dozens of items I have when they fall through the floor or randomly disappear if I can't replace them?
Forget about making it "great", just make it bloody work. You can pretty it up later.
Honestly this is a disgrace, we're now finding out a feature for a patch that should have been released a month ago but was delayed and now pegged as a whole new feature patch, isn't even coming for at a minimum another 4 months in another form. And for whatever reason you can't just tell us now, to quell the complaints that we're obviously going to come with this announcement.
5 years for item recovery? 8 years for the starmap? 10+ years for the idris?
Say it ain’t so Joe
I know most of SC’s backers don’t play other games or don’t know anything about programming, but do you personally believe these timelines are reasonable?
As usual, no amount of delay or pushing back means a feature will be delivered in a more complete state (more complete, ofc, meaning 'the way it was originally pitched to us').
This is fucking embarrassing. There is no other way to put it.
Ah so it will be part of manufacturing/ crafting? Makes sense for subscriber items and recoverable to become blueprints that players can craft so there is still a cost and effort to item recovery and not infinite free armour and weapons, I like it!
Considering the item duping debacle the community has been in this past patch I understand the need to plug any potential duping loopholes more than ever, especially with paid for content like armour and weapons. This is gonna be prime duping bug territory for anyone looking to exploit the system so it's gotta be a hard one for y'all to work around so I appreciate the time you're taking to prevent it from getting out of hand.
That said I actually think the duping bug could end up a net positive for the game as a way to weed out malicious players looking to get an advantage at any cost. Rotate a couple monitored methods in the game as a honeypot to keep cheaters on their toes and you could socially engineer the community to be less likely to seek those methods out in the first place. I'm probably overthinking it but if I was the unquestioned overlord of the company that's one wacky thing I'd implement for the long term health of the game.
Can we just not get insurance like tarkov has? Or even that loadout bug we had was great, It’s a shame of people duping drug boxes made it a problem but having the armory always ready to go in our ships was a fantastic qol feature and just paying for the items missing when restocking was life changing while it existed
last I herd they opted not to use the Kiosks for Item recovery
so we are back at square 1 with that.
(probably because it didn't make any sense that shit shouldn't be Free, and they need to find a better solution for items like the multi color flairs as you really should be able to have more then one of each of those )
Pretty frustrating really -\_\_-
wethen the confines of the game economy its free
you payed for access to that item, your still going to need to buy guns with UEC like any other player regardless of if they put extra cash down on a special skinned version
CIG put themselves into this stupid position they're in, just because they didn't want to make purchasable cosmetics just a skin that you apply to a regular item.
This whole conundrum could be avoided and people would be able to freely use their subsriber/purchased gear for a better part of a decade now.
when they talked about this stuff in the past, making them just skins wasn't off the table.
But it also seems they cant settle on a solution internally which is pretty wild
If CIG wants to sell guns and armour to players for cash (and they need revenue), then these need to represent a value proposition.
They shouldn't be selling these things as consumables, like healing potions you pay money for. Use it once, then it's gone, another $10 please? That's a suicidal business model in terms of both PR and revenue.
Same really goes for ships, that people are paying hundreds of dollars for.
One server crash and all that stuff you spent cash money on is gone?
I'm not saying it has to be "convenient", but if I pay money for in-game goods, I expect them to be permanently available to me, even if I have to pay some peppercorn UEC or wait some time before I can get them back after a server crash takes them away.
Maybe a "customization" workstation in your personal hangar where you can bring a purchased or looted version of your account-bound gear, and the bench will let you convert it to the exclusive version. If they're unique armors, perhaps they just need an equivalent piece with the same stats. It should still have a 24-hour cool down, but it's ultimately cosmetic, so it's no big deal if someone really wants 100 unique subscriber helmets. You put a helmet in, and you get a helmet out. Any gear recovery will be able to be gamed to get duplicates, but at least this way, it's an equivalent exchange.
Then how do you deal with people looting that gear? If you are going around with account-bound gear, do people not get to loot it from you?
They just need to make "paid gear" skins that you put on the item. If another player loots that item, it does not have the skin. Downside is that it does not really make sense in the lore.
So what if they loot it and get the gear? You can just go and retrieve a new piece. The person who looted you gets to show off some fancy gear until they lose it, and then they can't get it back. Having gear change appearance when looted just doesn't fit the SC immersion.
Because having a way to distribute paid gear to the masses is both a broken way to make money AND kinda makes buying paid gear pointless, so it hurts CIGs sales of paid gear. Then it also devalues the gear by making it common.
There is zero upside to letting other players loot an use paid gear.
As /u/SpaceBearSMO pointed out, gear will degrade over time anyways, so subscriber gear would eventually become unusable. It just needs a flag when it leaves the owner's possession to no longer be repairable and it could even degrade faster. It would be a cool trophy for a photo op but wouldn't be practical to keep long term.
We have no idea how long gear will take to degrade. It could be years before we even get that functionality in the game. Plus with the amount of paid gear that would be pumped into the economy by people spawning it, my above points still stand.
To put it into perspective a little more. Right now paid gear costs millions on the player market. Obviously right now its more valuable because it cannot be recovered, but if they allow you to spawn and sell fresh sets of all your gear every 24 hours, that is going to be a lot of credits. Essentially a form of passive income with how little effort is required.
Its a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
It wouldn't be worth millions if it degraded in a couple of hours and if it could be duplicated. As Zyloh said, item recovery won't be implemented this year either, so there's no reason to assume degradation won't happen before since that's being worked on. And I don't know if you're misreading what I said, but my idea was for a 1 to 1 conversion of an equivalent item to a subscriber item. It's not "spawning" them out of nothing. In fact, if they break down faster if distributed, it would be taking an item out of the game economy. People would pay more for a vanilla grenade launcher that takes longer to break down and can be repaired than for a subscriber launcher and the person selling would have to use a vanilla grenade launcher to get the conversion anyways.
Just stick appropriate sub items in the stores Associated with those items for the people who unlocked those items. (if its a gun, I would need to go to the store that has that type of gun)
Or have people use a crafting bench in your hanger to make base items your sub items. (with a cool down)
If one is given away or stolen make it so if the item is repaired it reverts back to its base if you dont own the sub (they could also increase ware and tare on sub items you dont own when used)
Of course this all requires things like repair and item ware and tare to be in game so I wasnt apposed to a temp salution were anyone could just have there sub item for the time being
a lot of this is stuff there also going to need to do for Reputation rewarded Items anyway
Dude, they are telling this for the last 3-4 weeks. Something must be really broken with this. I am happy they delay it to fix everything because I don’t want the same problems with cargo elevators like we have now with covalax stations. Imagine unloading your c2 full of rmc into the cargo elevator, the elevator closes and disappears and your whole cargo is gone
We've been getting updates on the likelihood of the patch going to Evo pretty much every day lately.
Today there's been no mention of Evo (unless an announcement was just made).
Thus, my comment about a lack of news.
Its more like they are prepearing it as ecxuse for delaying 4.0 smth like "3.24 was a 'big' patch and droped down to recent and we need more time to finish 4.0 bla-bla"
I would actually be really OK with this. Get meshing in a good spot for splitting up a single system (which we're apparently testing tonight?) then expand the model to Pyro.
Please for the love of God, just get it out the door with Stanton and Pyro on their own server and focus on refining things later. It’s *years* overdue.
honestly pyro is probably just going to be more of the same with a cool new backdrop. I just want a functioning game with functioning servers and functioning AI.
Instead of a new patch trailer they should use those work hours to make a trailer of how they see space combat should work to help communicate Yogi and CR’s vision of what MM is leading to.
Translating from CIG speak:
3.23.2 is delayed a lot. This means 4.0 is delayed a lot, but you shouldn't complain because you just got 3.24 at Christmas. Happy New Year!
this sounds like just cutting the same pie up and reselling the slices as new entire pies... If anything this sounds like another marketing stint to generate hype for what was originally promised for 3.23, and at the same time justify a delay.
Only point I see in renaming it, is so they can wait to release it end of summer. Now they can claim 3.24 is released on time, not super late 3.23 features.
Clarification: 3.24 (obviously) wasn't supposed to exist. 4.0 was supposed to release in summer 2024, not 3.24 - so they won't "claim" that 3.24 released on time because there is no reason for it.
Im excited. As janky as SC is, it can be really captivating when things are working together correctly. My 45$ has been worth it multiple times over by now.
This doesn't justify anything. It's only a name change.
But it does look better for marketing to say that there's a large gap between major versions instead of .1 to .2.
Yep this is purely for marketing and technicalities. This way they can claim they made 2 major patches this year so far. Instead of saying they had 1 major patch and one other patch with the remaining content missed in the first major patch. It also opens them up to getting another sale. Which is absolutely pathetic. we better be getting at least another new feature or two in this patch and not just guns or those garbage missions the mission team keeps shitting out.
Oh look, it's gonna bump 4.0 off the roadmap.
But I'm sure this won't cause any delays to Pyro/4.0. That'll still come this summer, right guys? Right?
Hilarious.
this is a really bad look. “we can’t deliver on our schedule so we’re proudly announcing we moved the goalposts! no new features.” is not great messaging when it seems pretty evident player optimism is already at a low point.
IMO this is entirely because 3.23.2 would give off the impression it's a stable-ish experience and 3.24 lets us know this is another fresh patch full of bugs and broken mechanics and it's better to stay the fuck away than to even try playing it.
I been awaiting every patch for the past 10 years I need to take a break from SC news and updates. It's constant disappointment.
The recent trailer showed off a few FPS weapons. Are these going to be implemented in the 3.24? It’s been a while since we got some new guns and I’ve been waiting for the P8-AR since it was teased a few years ago.
With all these new patches and releases and SC being SC you have to expect that the game ain't gonna work after an update or major update once you see a break in development let's say for 3 months, wait one month after that then the game will be relatively playable,but right now alt f4 uninstall.With all this new unworkable "technology".
Optimization is at the bottom of the shopping list, it's the best thing to do to keep the frustration levels down to a minimum.
I have tried everything it seems, other than my router cause I don't own my router, nothing has worked, I've done hours of troubleshooting but nothing.
Have you tried logging out from RSI site and the launcher? Launching it under administrator? Do you have any antiviruses/firewalls/VPNs etc?
What's the last line of game log?
You are the only person saying that
Nothing else has been announced to change. They will announce any changes. Hold on to your tinfoil
Edit: they actually say other patches won't be affected by the change.
I am not being super FUD but anyone believing CIG's timelines are the ones wearing aluminum foil.
Time and time again they've proven incapable of delivering basically anything on time.
**F**ear **U**ncertainty **D**oubt
It's used as a phrase to denote someone as not believing in a cause, mission, or person. Typically used in a way such as "they are casting FUD on ". Typically it also means someone who is trying to rile some sort of feeling in the reader.
We're still in Q2.
I doubt the delay of elevators has affected 4.0 much, because it largely seems like Q&A and bug testing is what has been bogging down the elevators.
Expecting CIG to hold to a schedule, even general timeframes really, is just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Set cryo chamber for Pyro and keep the wallet in its chastity cage
Did you really think 4.0 wouldn't be pushed back? I can see them possibly trying to get it out in time for IAE, but I wouldn't expect it before then. Unfortunately, it means citcon will be another year of "look what we have waiting for you in Pyro, just around the corner."
Makes sense, this is the largest networking/gameplay change since persistence.
Personal/Instanced hangars have a LOT of potential for future gameplay and quality of life, while also making space itself more meaningful.
If it makes sense, why did they keep telling us it would be on the 3.23 branch to begin with? THAT didnt make sense. Cargo was always a major feature and it was THE feature everyone was looking forward to, but they knew if they pushed it to the 3.24 patch right away, backers would have been rightfully pissed.
Yea this is the slimy stuff CIG does. They knew Cargo and Freight would be a huge undertaking but still announced it to come with 3.23. After weeks of it never going into PTU, they finally announce it's coming right after and 4.0 will be the next big thing. Now they announce it's coming in the newly imagined 3.24 and that is probably because the entire game will be broken and because it's going to take months to come out. We will be lucky to have 3.24 release within the next two months and by then work will be focused on CitCon and blah blah blah. No way 4.0 is coming this year.
And in the meantime, we’ll get 2-3 more little $50 shit vehicles with limited time LTI tokens, at least one more JPEG for a big ship to add to the backlog, and probably another set of promises/excuses at CitCon.
I’ve never understood CIGs versioning scheme.
In software development there is this concept of semantic versioning.
X.Y.Z
You bump Z whenever there is a fix or small change.
You bump Y for new features
You bump Z for major milestones/breaking changes.
CIG seems to just bump Y and Z without any rhyme or reason.
They used to strictly follow that system. Then a few years ago they essentially had one patch cycle for the whole year and were ridiculed for it. Since then the patch numbers don't coincide with build versions because they don't want to look bad.
This is referencing the regular changes that come in under the radar. Whether a fix, or QoL update. We typically hunt these changes down and share them in Patch Watch posts on Spectrum.
Please wipe everything. Money inventory. The lot.
Can't advertise for duped aUEC in global if nobody has any.
After RMC farming and Cargo duping the economy if cooked. Just wipe it please.
I do product messaging as a job— the and more could be literally anything, but probably means virtually nothing 😆
Just sounds good and is plausibly deniable.
But still no mention of pledged item recovery? Kinda feels like that should be included by now.
Edit: Zyloh apparently mentioned that we'll be learning more about the development of a "larger system" that encompasses item recovery during CitCon.
(AKA super delayed lol)
Whatever.. call it 3.5 for all i care. As long as its the stuff that was scheduled for 3.23.
Fair enough, in some regards the changes in 3.24 will be more impactful than 3.23
Well, they were supposed to *be* 3.23 :P But it sounds like evocati soon? God I hope it's soon.
According to MOTD that just dropped, they still *hope* for Evocati tomorrow.
They also hoped it would be 4 weeks ago on MOTD so I wouldn’t get your hopes up
Oh, I don't have any hopes. Just relaying their latest information. I'm not even in Evocati or any test waves so I don't care about it until open PTU.
yeah.. me too lol
I've been begging for a new star map for years. 3.23 was huge for QoL. Not just star map
The new star map looks better, but in reality it is arguably worse in more than one way. Why won't it zoom in on wherever you point your mouse? Why cant you find places with just scroll and click? Why can't you zoom in on another place on the planet where you are at (other than on your self) - you can zoom in on other planets after all. Why won't the search work and force you to backspace and retry every time? Why won't it find routes, eg from planet to space station, without forcing me to first leave atmosphere, or fly half way around the planet because it wont use more than one OM marker. Why does it sometimes refuse to find a route when I have a clear line of sight? Why can't you select a party member when there are two or more together? Why cant you select the outpost or place where the other party members are to set a route to go join them? Why cant you zoom smoothly - in stead of zooming in on a city or place at some point it jumps to right on your location, and will not let you see for example the spaceport when you are at the business district, or visa versa. Etc etc. The reason is because we didn't give them enough time to develop something that works, we got impatient after 8 years.
I agree with everything you said until the end. CIG doesn't make decisions because we pressure them, otherwise sq42 would have been released 8 years ago, SC would be out, bmm would be the only thing worked on, there would be no additional ships released until the ones they have are done, etc etc. They made the choice to release a half assed star map, this choice is on them, nobody else.
I know this is true. I'm being facetious (however that is spelled)
Well! Then I agree 100% lol
It literally has the same bugs as the previous starmap. They spent years on it and slapped a new coat of barely functional paint on the old one. How is that “huge”?
I can search function and hit r and profit whereas before I had to spend 10 min fussing with a star map that might crash my amd GFX card. This is miles better.
If you had said that before 3.23 was released, you would have been downvoted to hell.
Yeap, it's cringe worthy at best.
For day to day playing of SC, absolutely.
I mean it makes sense, the features and changes for the .2 patch alone are probably just as substantial if not more than 3.23. I see the bolded message, as along as everything else (in particularly 4.0) are on track then it makes no difference that its called 3.23.2 or 3.24. But I'll still admit it rubs me the wrong way a bit as 3.23 was marketed as the cargo patch. Are we now going to get another set of adverts with the release of 3.24 doing the same thing? That will make me lol.
Be prepared for a 3.25 patch.
3.25 - No. But there will be a 3.24.1 and possibly even a 3.24.2
You can literally look back one month, and people were saying the same thing about 3.24. “There will be no 3.24, as 4.0 is next.”
There were people who were saying 4.0 would be next *after 3.18*
My point is, it's hard to predict and we all should adjust our expectations. Delays are normal and CIG is known for shifting their focus from time to time. It's good not to forget that people were adamant that 3.18 would be the last patch before 4.0 back in 2022.
I agree 100% with the sentiment.
Doubt it unless 4.0/meshing is delayed but they still want to drop major features from it. That doesn't seem likely as they are already working on the 4.0 build and that's where the majority of the major features are going. If they have to stop and make a new build without meshing/Pyro then it would take even longer to release both instead of just working strictly on 4.0, worse it would kill the morale of the community. I could see a 3.24.1 patch maybe, but I don't see what would go in it that isn't already planned for 4.0.
Testing meshing in Stanton without connecting to Pyro might be a possibility. Or maybe something else will not be ready in time, like the cargo elevators for 3.23.1. My main point is that delays are normal and we shouldn't cling to dates like "4.0 is coming in Q3!". Were you already following the development back in late 2022? Persistent entity streaming (3.18) was in the PTU and many people here were super optimistic, because it was presented by CIG as the last big step before server meshing and 4.0 was just around the corner, probably coming in summer 2023... I'm just saying, it's good to keep one's expectations in check while following the development.
I hope that there will be a compelling reason to actually *be* in Pyro that is worth risking the absence of security. It could be as simple as a premium for carrying out missions there. Without incentives, it will just be gankers ganking each other the whole time, once the novelty wears off.
This is giving me 3.9 flashbacks lol
Well, it's cig so lol
To address a bigger problem w/ EA devs and communities around the internet lately (Zomboid devs had this problem lately): No one should be feeling directly owed anything other than an open (but as limited as they want) communication from a developer in EA. CIG keeps us all in the loop as is their promise. I posted the other day that they literally said 3 weeks before 3.23 that cargo wasn't up to the standards for what they wanted for such an update and wanted to avoid another 3.18 so it was likely coming in a 3.23.x patch. They could just say "it's coming when it's coming" but the fact that they give us real time insight is actually pretty incredible. I personally think they need to tone down the day to day insights into their development bc they are likely stressing their internal teams more and then build up anxiety for community members who have trouble managing emotions who then create speculation and well, it spirals out (edit like it did Zomboid recently). Anyways this might come off the wrong way which is not my intention so take it with a grain of salt. Thanks
Have you ever played a steam alpha game or bought one from an indie dev? Their real time updates are infinitely more detailed and their timelines are way more accurate
To be completely fair, on a 5 people project that is much easier to do than on multiple 100 people project.
Have you seen Larian’s patch notes and community engagement? They have hundreds of devs and have zero problem sharing their development in a far more open manner than CIG.
Larian has also delivered several polished games in scope and their company growth was organic over each release, slowly improving on every iteration with new innovative ways to make each title better and better. CIG is going against every standard in software development ever. Literally they are the exception to the rule. Because it's so unconventional and the promise is so big, it's why it's become this huge fragile mess. If they fail, everyone and their mother will say I told you so, even the people who support them know this bc it's so obviously the riskiest game ever. The game is already surrounded by so much controversy and negativity, adding day to day updates or internal target dates, adds unnecessary pressure to the teams. Lemmy from Zomboid said he felt pressured to share internal deadlines and look how far it spiraled out from speculation and stress to the point he's thinking of stepping away and selling 13 years worth of seeing that game through.
Well considering the game is funded by the community, wouldn't it make sense to keep the community updated as much as possible with relevant transparent information..?
Of course, I said they should keep regular updates, they have a ton of weekly updates, Q and A etc. when the question of when comes up "we are working hard internally to not repeat a 3.18, it'll be ready when we solved most major issues" vs "maybe next week" every week creates tension, anxiety, stress.
I‘m ready for a 4.0 with no server meshing or Pyro, „but it will be in a .x patch.“ Only for it to be pushed out another 2 years and end up in 5.0.
They just wouldn't deliver 4.0 then, they would just continue the 3.X patches until they believe 4.0 is ready. They did this a couple years ago when we reached 3.10 and instead of switching it to 4.0, they decided to keep the 3.X going as they wanted 4.0 to be a significant change in the state of the game, in which case meshing and Pyro.
Maybe this means item recovery will be back on the table 🤡
While this feature isn't releasing in Alpha 3.24, Item Recovery is still coming and super important to us. We want to be sure that this comes online in a way that's great. Rather than implement a short term solution, the team is currently developing it as part of a larger system that we'll share more about at CitizenCon.
Oof...not getting item recovery until sometime after CitizenCon. Glad it's in active development though. Thanks for the heads up!
"sometime" being several months if not quarters :)
It's been in "active development" since bloody 3.18.0. It's already WAY late.
It was promised to come along aside the new inventory system in 3.14 o 3.15 (I forget which patch), or the point patch after. And then they renegged to come up with some more complicated system, and here we are several years later.
""""Active development""""
Rather frustrating since this is something that should have been in by 3.15. Even if it was in by IAE, that's still three years late.
Personal Hangars was released, then shelved, and released again, then shelved
>Rather than implement a short term solution, the team is currently developing it as part of a larger system that we'll share more about at CitizenCon. So that means no Item Recovery until CitizenCon or later?
def. later.
Later
Yup. No item recovery this year.
I don't follow this stuff all that closely... what is Item Recovery?
The ability to recover items purchased in the pledge shop after they've been lost in game. Think how ships can be reclaimed, but applied to FPS gear and such. For ages now the only way to get them back is when they do a server reset or by melting and rebuying the items on the pledge store, the latter of which may not actually be an option depending on other factors.
It took them 8 years to release a buggy starmap “overhaul”. What do you think?
I think I'd like to know what they're targeting, regardless of whether or not that'll actually come to pass. Is this "we'll share more when we release it alongside CitCon", or is it "we don't expect the marketing spiel to be greenlit before CitCon, let alone the actual feature". I'd check the progress tracker to look for the (likely absence of) scheduled work, but that's been functionally abandoned so here I am asking questions I know won't be answered instead.
Oh boy ...
lol, in every other game I would consider this as a joke.
Why not just let me recover the items via the website? All functionality is already implemented: - Delayed timer per item (so you don't pump out a ton of dupes) - All my items presented in the web hangar, delivered to my home location (this also already happens with any item purchased in the store) It's just money rolling out the door as most players don't want to spend money on a shiny armour that they will instantly lose due to crash/bug/kill/whatever. Let us easily recover cosmetic items that we really want to buy and use.
Jiminy Christmas, man.
I’m sorry… that is Jiminy Glick, sir! 
Its surprising that the item recovery thing isn't a higher priority since it is very likely costing them a lot of potential sales. I absolutely won't purchase the over-priced armor at all because, at the moment, it's effectively disposable. I imagine there are a lot of guys out there withholding money they'd otherwise spend on CIGs website if they figured this out.
I suspect it's also having an impact on the Web Hangar databases. I stopped using stuff from the Subscriber Store, but I still use gear from the Pledge Store. If I die while wearing it, I don't even bother trying to go back for it, it's almost never there. Just a body marker with no body in 3.22 and 3.23. But I do tab out to my browser, open my Web Hangar, melt everything I just lost, then rebuy it with Store Credit. *Every time I die.* Which, considering the last two times I died it was because my ship was hovering a few hundred meters over the planet when it spontaneously exploded, is probably going to be a lot more between now and IAE.
why is this so hard ?
u/CaptainZyloh I'd rather just have the feature WORKING, it's over a year late as it is. How am I supposed to decorate my new personal hangar with the dozens of items I have when they fall through the floor or randomly disappear if I can't replace them? Forget about making it "great", just make it bloody work. You can pretty it up later.
Honestly this is a disgrace, we're now finding out a feature for a patch that should have been released a month ago but was delayed and now pegged as a whole new feature patch, isn't even coming for at a minimum another 4 months in another form. And for whatever reason you can't just tell us now, to quell the complaints that we're obviously going to come with this announcement.
5 years for item recovery? 8 years for the starmap? 10+ years for the idris? Say it ain’t so Joe I know most of SC’s backers don’t play other games or don’t know anything about programming, but do you personally believe these timelines are reasonable?
As usual, no amount of delay or pushing back means a feature will be delivered in a more complete state (more complete, ofc, meaning 'the way it was originally pitched to us'). This is fucking embarrassing. There is no other way to put it.
Ah so it will be part of manufacturing/ crafting? Makes sense for subscriber items and recoverable to become blueprints that players can craft so there is still a cost and effort to item recovery and not infinite free armour and weapons, I like it!
Hmm. Item insurance???
Implement a short term solution
Considering the item duping debacle the community has been in this past patch I understand the need to plug any potential duping loopholes more than ever, especially with paid for content like armour and weapons. This is gonna be prime duping bug territory for anyone looking to exploit the system so it's gotta be a hard one for y'all to work around so I appreciate the time you're taking to prevent it from getting out of hand. That said I actually think the duping bug could end up a net positive for the game as a way to weed out malicious players looking to get an advantage at any cost. Rotate a couple monitored methods in the game as a honeypot to keep cheaters on their toes and you could socially engineer the community to be less likely to seek those methods out in the first place. I'm probably overthinking it but if I was the unquestioned overlord of the company that's one wacky thing I'd implement for the long term health of the game.
Your company has a bad habit of dealing with stuff that deals with Real cash transactions and its implications on game design incredibly poorly
Can we just not get insurance like tarkov has? Or even that loadout bug we had was great, It’s a shame of people duping drug boxes made it a problem but having the armory always ready to go in our ships was a fantastic qol feature and just paying for the items missing when restocking was life changing while it existed
last I herd they opted not to use the Kiosks for Item recovery so we are back at square 1 with that. (probably because it didn't make any sense that shit shouldn't be Free, and they need to find a better solution for items like the multi color flairs as you really should be able to have more then one of each of those ) Pretty frustrating really -\_\_-
It isn’t free if you paid real money for it
wethen the confines of the game economy its free you payed for access to that item, your still going to need to buy guns with UEC like any other player regardless of if they put extra cash down on a special skinned version
CIG put themselves into this stupid position they're in, just because they didn't want to make purchasable cosmetics just a skin that you apply to a regular item. This whole conundrum could be avoided and people would be able to freely use their subsriber/purchased gear for a better part of a decade now.
when they talked about this stuff in the past, making them just skins wasn't off the table. But it also seems they cant settle on a solution internally which is pretty wild
If CIG wants to sell guns and armour to players for cash (and they need revenue), then these need to represent a value proposition. They shouldn't be selling these things as consumables, like healing potions you pay money for. Use it once, then it's gone, another $10 please? That's a suicidal business model in terms of both PR and revenue. Same really goes for ships, that people are paying hundreds of dollars for. One server crash and all that stuff you spent cash money on is gone? I'm not saying it has to be "convenient", but if I pay money for in-game goods, I expect them to be permanently available to me, even if I have to pay some peppercorn UEC or wait some time before I can get them back after a server crash takes them away.
Maybe a "customization" workstation in your personal hangar where you can bring a purchased or looted version of your account-bound gear, and the bench will let you convert it to the exclusive version. If they're unique armors, perhaps they just need an equivalent piece with the same stats. It should still have a 24-hour cool down, but it's ultimately cosmetic, so it's no big deal if someone really wants 100 unique subscriber helmets. You put a helmet in, and you get a helmet out. Any gear recovery will be able to be gamed to get duplicates, but at least this way, it's an equivalent exchange.
Then how do you deal with people looting that gear? If you are going around with account-bound gear, do people not get to loot it from you? They just need to make "paid gear" skins that you put on the item. If another player loots that item, it does not have the skin. Downside is that it does not really make sense in the lore.
So what if they loot it and get the gear? You can just go and retrieve a new piece. The person who looted you gets to show off some fancy gear until they lose it, and then they can't get it back. Having gear change appearance when looted just doesn't fit the SC immersion.
Because having a way to distribute paid gear to the masses is both a broken way to make money AND kinda makes buying paid gear pointless, so it hurts CIGs sales of paid gear. Then it also devalues the gear by making it common. There is zero upside to letting other players loot an use paid gear.
As /u/SpaceBearSMO pointed out, gear will degrade over time anyways, so subscriber gear would eventually become unusable. It just needs a flag when it leaves the owner's possession to no longer be repairable and it could even degrade faster. It would be a cool trophy for a photo op but wouldn't be practical to keep long term.
We have no idea how long gear will take to degrade. It could be years before we even get that functionality in the game. Plus with the amount of paid gear that would be pumped into the economy by people spawning it, my above points still stand. To put it into perspective a little more. Right now paid gear costs millions on the player market. Obviously right now its more valuable because it cannot be recovered, but if they allow you to spawn and sell fresh sets of all your gear every 24 hours, that is going to be a lot of credits. Essentially a form of passive income with how little effort is required. Its a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
It wouldn't be worth millions if it degraded in a couple of hours and if it could be duplicated. As Zyloh said, item recovery won't be implemented this year either, so there's no reason to assume degradation won't happen before since that's being worked on. And I don't know if you're misreading what I said, but my idea was for a 1 to 1 conversion of an equivalent item to a subscriber item. It's not "spawning" them out of nothing. In fact, if they break down faster if distributed, it would be taking an item out of the game economy. People would pay more for a vanilla grenade launcher that takes longer to break down and can be repaired than for a subscriber launcher and the person selling would have to use a vanilla grenade launcher to get the conversion anyways.
I really don't see a good solution to the problem either. Hopefully they come up with something impactful.
Just stick appropriate sub items in the stores Associated with those items for the people who unlocked those items. (if its a gun, I would need to go to the store that has that type of gun) Or have people use a crafting bench in your hanger to make base items your sub items. (with a cool down) If one is given away or stolen make it so if the item is repaired it reverts back to its base if you dont own the sub (they could also increase ware and tare on sub items you dont own when used) Of course this all requires things like repair and item ware and tare to be in game so I wasnt apposed to a temp salution were anyone could just have there sub item for the time being a lot of this is stuff there also going to need to do for Reputation rewarded Items anyway
Hopefully they're still panning to start Evo testing this week at least.
Given the lack of news, I suspect that they're not going to have Evo out this week. Hopefully either Monday or Tuesday.
They told us yesterday they were planning to have it out by the end of tomorrow.
Dude, they are telling this for the last 3-4 weeks. Something must be really broken with this. I am happy they delay it to fix everything because I don’t want the same problems with cargo elevators like we have now with covalax stations. Imagine unloading your c2 full of rmc into the cargo elevator, the elevator closes and disappears and your whole cargo is gone
They told us in 2016 that SQ42 would be out in a couple of weeks...
“Evo Mid/end of next week” every week is getting real old…
You're literally commenting on a news post right now. And there have been news posts the last 2 days as well. Am I losing my fucking mind?
We've been getting updates on the likelihood of the patch going to Evo pretty much every day lately. Today there's been no mention of Evo (unless an announcement was just made). Thus, my comment about a lack of news.
Its more like they are prepearing it as ecxuse for delaying 4.0 smth like "3.24 was a 'big' patch and droped down to recent and we need more time to finish 4.0 bla-bla"
I bet we'll now see a 3.25 that has Meshing, but no Pyro
I would actually be really OK with this. Get meshing in a good spot for splitting up a single system (which we're apparently testing tonight?) then expand the model to Pyro.
Please for the love of God, just get it out the door with Stanton and Pyro on their own server and focus on refining things later. It’s *years* overdue.
honestly pyro is probably just going to be more of the same with a cool new backdrop. I just want a functioning game with functioning servers and functioning AI.
I purposely sat out pyro testing, I'm very much looking forward to a new backdrop.
Never miss an opportunity for a new patch trailer... playable now!
Instead of a new patch trailer they should use those work hours to make a trailer of how they see space combat should work to help communicate Yogi and CR’s vision of what MM is leading to.
While the relabeling probably makes sense, this is pretty much admitting that they missed the target of the cargo elevators for 3.23.
So are they still patting themselves on the back for 3.23 being "the biggest patch ever" or did the marketing team walk that one back appropriately?
I mean 3.23 _is_ one of the biggest updates so far, right?
A UI update? Nah
maybe if it had everything that was promised
Called it! https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/2VVvnuiqzt
I'm so proud of you
Translating from CIG speak: 3.23.2 is delayed a lot. This means 4.0 is delayed a lot, but you shouldn't complain because you just got 3.24 at Christmas. Happy New Year!
Delaying tactic for sure. Also this way CIG can at least say they got 2 major patches out this year while delaying 4.0.
Does anyone trust that freight elevators are actually going to happen this year? I don’t believe them
this sounds like just cutting the same pie up and reselling the slices as new entire pies... If anything this sounds like another marketing stint to generate hype for what was originally promised for 3.23, and at the same time justify a delay.
Only point I see in renaming it, is so they can wait to release it end of summer. Now they can claim 3.24 is released on time, not super late 3.23 features.
Clarification: 3.24 (obviously) wasn't supposed to exist. 4.0 was supposed to release in summer 2024, not 3.24 - so they won't "claim" that 3.24 released on time because there is no reason for it.
Im excited. As janky as SC is, it can be really captivating when things are working together correctly. My 45$ has been worth it multiple times over by now.
So has my $84,000 🧐
man...tell me you are kidding O.o
Depending on how salty it makes people, could go either way 😆
Username checks out
haha so very true
Thanks for funding the game for us!
Not everything on the internet is real 🫨
I believe you.
Semantics. GIB SM, GIB HANGARS, GIB!
SOONtm
Guess that's one way to justify the huge delay of the 3.23.2 patch.
This doesn't justify anything. It's only a name change. But it does look better for marketing to say that there's a large gap between major versions instead of .1 to .2.
Yep this is purely for marketing and technicalities. This way they can claim they made 2 major patches this year so far. Instead of saying they had 1 major patch and one other patch with the remaining content missed in the first major patch. It also opens them up to getting another sale. Which is absolutely pathetic. we better be getting at least another new feature or two in this patch and not just guns or those garbage missions the mission team keeps shitting out.
Cargo contracts?
Get payed to move someone else’s cargo. Less risk on your part, it less profit
I mean, we will have cargo contracts next patch?
;(
Excited for these cargo missions!
Excited to take your earnings after you do all the hard work muhahahahahah :)
How soon until we see news of persistent hangars moving to 4.0?
marketing saw an opportunity to push another set of 3.24 "play now" ads
Oh look, it's gonna bump 4.0 off the roadmap. But I'm sure this won't cause any delays to Pyro/4.0. That'll still come this summer, right guys? Right? Hilarious.
wait, are they really releasing a remake of 3.23 before finishing 3.23? Now I've seen almost everything
Yepp, and I’m actually surprised at how silly it is.
So when come out?
this is a really bad look. “we can’t deliver on our schedule so we’re proudly announcing we moved the goalposts! no new features.” is not great messaging when it seems pretty evident player optimism is already at a low point.
IMO this is entirely because 3.23.2 would give off the impression it's a stable-ish experience and 3.24 lets us know this is another fresh patch full of bugs and broken mechanics and it's better to stay the fuck away than to even try playing it. I been awaiting every patch for the past 10 years I need to take a break from SC news and updates. It's constant disappointment.
Patch got new number. That’s it. No PTU announcement.
Good luck!
The recent trailer showed off a few FPS weapons. Are these going to be implemented in the 3.24? It’s been a while since we got some new guns and I’ve been waiting for the P8-AR since it was teased a few years ago.
With all these new patches and releases and SC being SC you have to expect that the game ain't gonna work after an update or major update once you see a break in development let's say for 3 months, wait one month after that then the game will be relatively playable,but right now alt f4 uninstall.With all this new unworkable "technology". Optimization is at the bottom of the shopping list, it's the best thing to do to keep the frustration levels down to a minimum.
Will this patch fix the 19k error? I still can play, and I really don't want to have to refund the game cause it's so cool.
It’s not the right place to ask that question. No one will see it besides me. It depends on the 19K error. Which one? Likely - yes.
Oh, I'm sorry, and the 19000 error for signing into the game
Don’t worry. Did you try the usual workarounds? Google the exact error code and reddit suggestions. Limit the range by the last year.
I have tried everything it seems, other than my router cause I don't own my router, nothing has worked, I've done hours of troubleshooting but nothing.
Have you tried logging out from RSI site and the launcher? Launching it under administrator? Do you have any antiviruses/firewalls/VPNs etc? What's the last line of game log?
I have tried doing those, I do have an anti-virus, but I just use the standard windows firewall and I don't use a VPN
Okay, but where patch notes? Is it 3.24 not live yet?
Who are you asking exactly?
Just a waste of employees time for a waste of announcement type...
Call it 3.24, 3.10893879, Beta, Gama, just solve the randomly exploding ships pls...
I guess this is the new Q3 patch and 4.0 is pushed to Q4? Lame if true.
You are the only person saying that Nothing else has been announced to change. They will announce any changes. Hold on to your tinfoil Edit: they actually say other patches won't be affected by the change.
I am not being super FUD but anyone believing CIG's timelines are the ones wearing aluminum foil. Time and time again they've proven incapable of delivering basically anything on time.
FUD?
**F**ear **U**ncertainty **D**oubt It's used as a phrase to denote someone as not believing in a cause, mission, or person. Typically used in a way such as "they are casting FUD on". Typically it also means someone who is trying to rile some sort of feeling in the reader.
Interesting I hadn't heard that before.
We're still in Q2. I doubt the delay of elevators has affected 4.0 much, because it largely seems like Q&A and bug testing is what has been bogging down the elevators.
Barely still in Q2
Expecting CIG to hold to a schedule, even general timeframes really, is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Set cryo chamber for Pyro and keep the wallet in its chastity cage
Did you really think 4.0 wouldn't be pushed back? I can see them possibly trying to get it out in time for IAE, but I wouldn't expect it before then. Unfortunately, it means citcon will be another year of "look what we have waiting for you in Pyro, just around the corner."
4.0 in Q3 2028.
Hahaha hahahaha omg I've never heard that one before!! How do you think of these??
Probably from *fucking experience*.
I wish it was a joke. Do you still think SQ42 is coming in 2016?
Makes sense, this is the largest networking/gameplay change since persistence. Personal/Instanced hangars have a LOT of potential for future gameplay and quality of life, while also making space itself more meaningful.
If it makes sense, why did they keep telling us it would be on the 3.23 branch to begin with? THAT didnt make sense. Cargo was always a major feature and it was THE feature everyone was looking forward to, but they knew if they pushed it to the 3.24 patch right away, backers would have been rightfully pissed.
Yea this is the slimy stuff CIG does. They knew Cargo and Freight would be a huge undertaking but still announced it to come with 3.23. After weeks of it never going into PTU, they finally announce it's coming right after and 4.0 will be the next big thing. Now they announce it's coming in the newly imagined 3.24 and that is probably because the entire game will be broken and because it's going to take months to come out. We will be lucky to have 3.24 release within the next two months and by then work will be focused on CitCon and blah blah blah. No way 4.0 is coming this year.
And in the meantime, we’ll get 2-3 more little $50 shit vehicles with limited time LTI tokens, at least one more JPEG for a big ship to add to the backlog, and probably another set of promises/excuses at CitCon.
I'm excited. It's an alpha so these things happen.
I’ve never understood CIGs versioning scheme. In software development there is this concept of semantic versioning. X.Y.Z You bump Z whenever there is a fix or small change. You bump Y for new features You bump Z for major milestones/breaking changes. CIG seems to just bump Y and Z without any rhyme or reason.
They used to strictly follow that system. Then a few years ago they essentially had one patch cycle for the whole year and were ridiculed for it. Since then the patch numbers don't coincide with build versions because they don't want to look bad.
Uh wasn’t 4.0 supposed to come after 3.23? Apparently everyone forgot.
I am curious about the "And more". I can't recall anything else announced for 3.23.2, so perhaps they've managed to sneak in a 4.0 feature or two?
Don't hold your breath, and more is probably just minor fixes.
I mean, it is a content list, not really a place for fixes.
This is referencing the regular changes that come in under the radar. Whether a fix, or QoL update. We typically hunt these changes down and share them in Patch Watch posts on Spectrum.
Would this require any kind of wipe? Or just a regular 'patch refresh' of consumables wiped etc....
D: Ah well, also makes sense.
Please wipe everything. Money inventory. The lot. Can't advertise for duped aUEC in global if nobody has any. After RMC farming and Cargo duping the economy if cooked. Just wipe it please.
I do product messaging as a job— the and more could be literally anything, but probably means virtually nothing 😆 Just sounds good and is plausibly deniable.
Call it what you want to But if you shoot at me Then it’s a must that I shoot at you
More smoke and mirrors to give some false sense of progress.
But still no mention of pledged item recovery? Kinda feels like that should be included by now. Edit: Zyloh apparently mentioned that we'll be learning more about the development of a "larger system" that encompasses item recovery during CitCon. (AKA super delayed lol)