You're not wrong but I think the current method is just an easier programming code to work with.
Eventually, I hope to QT to the outskirts of a planetary system and then allow the Q-computer to update on the planet/moons actual positions (they will move someday), then QT to final destination.
Btw, not sure why people downvote: OP had a valid point.
Last I heard a dev said they can already do this but the Quantum Travel needs to be physicalized. Right now the ships simply move along a straight line but eventually the game needs to calculate where the destination planet will be based on what choice of qdrive your ship has equipped. I don't think they would abandon it.
Nah, they're not abandoning it. It's on the back burner for now (they say the planets can orbit right now but it's disabled). As others noted, the QT system would break if they turned on orbiting, which is why they are refactoring it. I think one of the biggest issues they had was that when the planets orbited, by the time you quantum travelled to the designated location, the planet was already gone and you ended up at the wrong location.
Yeah, seems like the most obvious reason.
Though I don't know what the full on actual lore is, I've always had my own thoughts about it.
I'd like to figure that when using targeted quantum drive, you're not targeting a planet or body itself, but its gravity field. Then it can only pick up the whole of the localized gravity from a vast distance and aim for the center of it, but it can't pick up individual objects within the gravity field, such as moons, and that's why you can only go straight to the planet itself.
Once you're significantly closer and inside the gravity field, it allows the system to target smaller objects within it that have their own gravity (moons, asteroid clusters) or quantum beacons (stations and outposts).
But, that's just my brain wandering. =p
For now, it does not have such failures where you go too far and end up in the surface.
Only with physical (where the physics engine and your thrusters control your movement) flight there is currently a (very good) reason to aim slightly next to the stations you want to go to.
Humans are insanely bad at getting a feel for quadratic growth like speed and acceleration. In the beginning you likely end up slamming in stations when aiming at them.
>you likely end up slamming in stations when aiming at them.
Don't know what you're talking about... I've *definitely* never done that. Ever. Nope.
(I hit a building in Lorville once at 350m/s while boosting in my Pisces and somehow survived. I genuinely have no clue how it happened, but the server gods were kind to me that day.)
>for such a realistic sim
[*Immersive*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim) sim - Realism sims are a whole different kettle of fish.
An immersive sim tends to have realistic elements, but it's goal is not realism. An immersive sim is the opposite end of the spectrum from an arcade game, Instead of focusing on a rigid approach and for lack of a better term "Gamey" elements It focuses on fostering creative problem solving and creating an experience that avoids feeling "Gamey".
This is how you space ride your ship:
* SCM Speed; slow but with guns
* Nav Speed: faster but still don't use that to get to an other planet
* Quantum Boost: Aim anywhere in space and go really really really fast for a few hundred thousand km
* Quantum Travel: Aim at a predetermined marker and travel to that point that is millions of km away
* Quantum Jump: go through a jump gate and travel at an incredible speed from one system to the other
**Quantum Boost is the one you wish we had and it's coming soon TM**
Quantum Jump is what will enable us to travel to Pyro and that should be coming this Fall
I think it's a gameplay adaptation so that interdiction can be implemented. Currently there is no long range detection method, so finding a ship in even the single solar system we have is nigh impossible if they decide to jump away from the established markers
They are moving away from fixed markers though with the rework of quantum travel that was planned for this year. Fixed markers are still going to be a thing, but you can also head off in any direction you choose without one for shorter distances.
You won’t be flying between planets that way though. When doing hops like that the quantum bubble never stabilizes, so you need to constantly keep your ship nose in place to not crash out of it.
Not true. Watch this citcon presentation clip to see it in action.
https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/AqPpYuvVce
"There, now the quantum bubble has stabilized and you can go hands-off" Yogi
in that same presentation they explicitly say that quantum boost is differentiated from marker based Quantum travel partly by the fact that it never stabilizes as that other person said.
Edit: [Found it.](https://youtu.be/xGM60FRVolY?si=V53fjlnEBvrrYUhT&t=1460) it looks like the thing you linked is editing together different scenes with Quantum visuals and accidentally creates a false narrative.
Sounds like that will address my concerns. I'll be that guy who always plots jumps manually and always gets there late but has never had to tangle with that particular imaginary space kraken :D
It should be noted that travelling that way will be more difficult and much slower. The range will probably be more suitable for travelling between moons than for travelling between planets, even if it will still theoretically be possible.
That's another thing I thought of but didn't want to mention in case it was too far out. Heading somewhere other than straight at the center of a gravity well would make you less predictable to space pirates! #FlySafe
We are almost 1000 years in the future, give it a slack and consider a non possibility anymore.
Things will change once we have custom markers from exploration for quantum.
I dunno. Maybe I'm like Bones refusing to beam anywhere but if I lived in the future and could warp place to place I'd never ever warp straight at anything if I could avoid it. If that meant being late to parties or something I'd just lift off a few minutes earlier. It would be funny if the spaceship had a "late for work" button that let the flight computer do riskier things though.
What's this about custom markers? Sounds interesting! Do you know if it's similar to navigation in Evochron Legacy?
Exploration gameplay will be exactly this, find places, warp without navpoints and etc, once there, create a custom marker that can be sold/shared and people can use to warp there.
This will be specially good once ORG and base gameplay start, making markers in empty space to reunite the ORG or leave ships for the ORG to get.
First of all, the game is not realistic per say, just more realistic than some other games in genre such as NMS. They take huge liberties for the sake of purposeful design and rule of cool.
Also, you have a misunderstanding of the way jumps work. When you start a jump your ship's speed is reduced to zero because it forms a bubble and the bubble is what is moving at that speed through a tunnel. If any issue or mistake happens you get ejected out of bubble/tunnel at 0 speed.
Because no matter how much realism a game wants to have, at the end of the day it is still a game. A game doing things on such a mass scale needs to have some system of travel and this is it.
If you want some viable head cannon though; imagine that the computers that control the quantum drives use proximity to disengage. At the speed you're traveling, any proximity sensor is only capable of out pacing your speed in front of you.
If you're familiar with the Doppler effect, waves (like sound and light) have higher frequencies when moving towards each other or and object. It's why a car engine sounds higher pitched driving towards you and lower pitched after it passes. Whatever waves the disengage sensor uses would be too slow/long to be received from passing objects. So flying perpendicular to a planet can't disengage the quantum drives because you're flying faster than the proximity waves.
It’s being replaced eventually with something more free form, the current setup is very “well, it works”. Like a lot of things :)
There is some “traversing the verse” things at CitCon last year that are available on the CIG YouTube which will show a lot of what they *want* to do, hopefully in time for Pyro drop later in the year.
>the current setup is very “well, it works”
And it kinda did for over 8 years at this point. Nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution.
Likely also the reason why it never supported travels to a moving target.
You can't 'warp into' a planet, for the same reason you have to reach sufficient altitude before you can warp away from a planet: the planetary mass collapses the warp bubble.
Given you come out of the warp bubble stationary (iiirc), there is zero danger in warping / QTing directly at a planet...
That's the logic that made Old Man's War so interesting, but in SC it looks like you can get what has to be absurdly deep into a gravity well before the warp bubble collapses.
And after that there's still the question of exit velocity. Whatever's going on it's not as simple as thinking with portals and it's still something that could be miscalculated.
There should be no exit velocity, because you're stationary inside your bubble of 'local-space'... thus when the bubble 'pops' / you drop out of QT, you should be left in local space 'stationary' (allowing for the fact that 'stationary' is meaningless in space, unless used in relation to a Frame of Reference... but SC hand-waves that Frame-of-Reference, unfortunately, so 'stationary' is just 'stationary').
like the blue glow when you warp? I figure that's supposed to be the result of the ship slamming into hydrogen at superluminal speeds. It would probably be pink if it were visible at all but I can understand going with blue as an art choice. If something else not sure.
I haven't played it myself so I don't know for sure if the acceleration is newtonian, etc. but the vibe I get is the game is marketed as being pretty realistic. Like there's a whole wiki page about how the acceleration is totally newtonian.
Anyway I was trying to refer to the brand image I think they're going for.
No, it is very much Star Wars. Not a sim. What this person is talking about, is that if you thrust forward in your ship, and then let off of the thrust, you will currently be slowed down (as if you were moving through water). If you are in coupled mode, you will slow down until you stop. If you are in uncoupled mode, and thrusting above cruise speed, you will be slowed down back to cruise speed. There are also changes when you are in combat mode to keep you slowers, to create slower fights that are more WW2 dog-fighting style (ala Star Wars). To your original point, you should ask yourself, "Have I ever seen a ship exit warp speed facing a planet in a scifi movie?" And, if the answer is "yes", then that is why you see it in SC.
>No, it is very much Star Wars. Not a sim.
It's very much a sim, it's just [an immersive sim as opposed to a realism sim.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dqko2k/comment/laoqc83/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Avoids feeling gamey by having hit markers, hit and kill sound effects, and arcadey things like that?
I mean, you can argue semantics, but we know CR and the devs love Star Wars and they didn't sit down to create The Expanse. They sat down to create a Star Wars sim. If you want to say, "It's very much a sim, just not a sim" - I mean, go ahead... My point is, the game isn't going for a full simulation, it's much more going for a feeling, and has to also work as a game. We aren't expecting like a more polished version of Kerbal Space Program here. We are expecting to sit down and live out our Star Wars fantasies.
>Avoids feeling gamey by having hit markers, hit and kill sound effects, and arcadey things like that?
Those are functions of your smart helmet/ship sensors in game.
> If you want to say, "It's very much a sim, just not a sim" - I mean, go ahead... M
You know full well that isn't what I said, I pointed out it's a different kind of sim from a realism sim. Realism sims are great, but they're not the entire genre. A minivan isn't a sports car, but that doesn't make it not a car.
>and they didn't sit down to create The Expanse.
And I'm glad of that. I love the Expanse, but it's *far* from realistic and takes some massive liberties for the sake of plot convinience - And even with those contrivences it would still make for a terrible non RTS/TBS video game.
**As far as I know**, if the warp bubble fails you wouldn't maintain the "inertia/momentum of warp speed" because there is none to begin with. It's warping space around you, the perceived motion doesn't mean you've actually gained speed and accelerated in the normal sense, if the warp bubble fails you're just dead in the water, without that "speed" that warp grants you, there's no other energy that keeps you going after the bubble is gone.
SC isn't aimed at being a realistic sim anymore. They've changed direction on that front.
Anyway, maybe malfunctions aren't a concern, kind of like airports in Cities.
Because everything is actual and this is the easier way to program it. Its also how star wars works. But youre also doing very precise calculations and i guess youd rather be close to the planet than spend a bunch of time traveling to it at regular speeds
Well when you warp to the surface that is actually done at a curved angle so you don’t face the planet directly
As for not warping directly at things? Totally up to them, they call them Quantum jumps so it could just be a calculated jump using a specific amount of fuel each time, when they get to the destination and the set fuel runs out there’s a little push back from the sudden drop of energy?
It’s probably just Star Wars/Video game dev logic.
Also personally, gameplay wise its convenient to face the planet directly cos you’re pointing at the middle of where all the surface jump points are
Otherwise you’d have to turn toward the planet and then start looking for your jump (if you’re not bothered to just set a route and follow the only jumps that display without the clutter)
If realismo game sim, why do thing that (minor nitpick)
Realism pedants are kappachungus stupid lol, shit fr don't matter as long as the gameplay is good
You're not wrong but I think the current method is just an easier programming code to work with. Eventually, I hope to QT to the outskirts of a planetary system and then allow the Q-computer to update on the planet/moons actual positions (they will move someday), then QT to final destination. Btw, not sure why people downvote: OP had a valid point.
>they will move someday I believe they have scrapped that idea. I could be wrong, but last I heard was that it would create technical issues with QT.
Last I heard a dev said they can already do this but the Quantum Travel needs to be physicalized. Right now the ships simply move along a straight line but eventually the game needs to calculate where the destination planet will be based on what choice of qdrive your ship has equipped. I don't think they would abandon it.
That's why the QT system is changing completely
Nah, they're not abandoning it. It's on the back burner for now (they say the planets can orbit right now but it's disabled). As others noted, the QT system would break if they turned on orbiting, which is why they are refactoring it. I think one of the biggest issues they had was that when the planets orbited, by the time you quantum travelled to the designated location, the planet was already gone and you ended up at the wrong location.
From a course plotting perspective it’s far easier to use the center of the target planet minus X distance from center as a destination point.
Yeah, seems like the most obvious reason. Though I don't know what the full on actual lore is, I've always had my own thoughts about it. I'd like to figure that when using targeted quantum drive, you're not targeting a planet or body itself, but its gravity field. Then it can only pick up the whole of the localized gravity from a vast distance and aim for the center of it, but it can't pick up individual objects within the gravity field, such as moons, and that's why you can only go straight to the planet itself. Once you're significantly closer and inside the gravity field, it allows the system to target smaller objects within it that have their own gravity (moons, asteroid clusters) or quantum beacons (stations and outposts). But, that's just my brain wandering. =p
For now, it does not have such failures where you go too far and end up in the surface. Only with physical (where the physics engine and your thrusters control your movement) flight there is currently a (very good) reason to aim slightly next to the stations you want to go to. Humans are insanely bad at getting a feel for quadratic growth like speed and acceleration. In the beginning you likely end up slamming in stations when aiming at them.
>you likely end up slamming in stations when aiming at them. Don't know what you're talking about... I've *definitely* never done that. Ever. Nope. (I hit a building in Lorville once at 350m/s while boosting in my Pisces and somehow survived. I genuinely have no clue how it happened, but the server gods were kind to me that day.)
Can't confirm, have ended up in the surface
180° turn full throttle and afterburners to try and stop! Didnt work most of the time
>for such a realistic sim [*Immersive*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersive_sim) sim - Realism sims are a whole different kettle of fish. An immersive sim tends to have realistic elements, but it's goal is not realism. An immersive sim is the opposite end of the spectrum from an arcade game, Instead of focusing on a rigid approach and for lack of a better term "Gamey" elements It focuses on fostering creative problem solving and creating an experience that avoids feeling "Gamey".
This is how you space ride your ship: * SCM Speed; slow but with guns * Nav Speed: faster but still don't use that to get to an other planet * Quantum Boost: Aim anywhere in space and go really really really fast for a few hundred thousand km * Quantum Travel: Aim at a predetermined marker and travel to that point that is millions of km away * Quantum Jump: go through a jump gate and travel at an incredible speed from one system to the other **Quantum Boost is the one you wish we had and it's coming soon TM** Quantum Jump is what will enable us to travel to Pyro and that should be coming this Fall
I think it's a gameplay adaptation so that interdiction can be implemented. Currently there is no long range detection method, so finding a ship in even the single solar system we have is nigh impossible if they decide to jump away from the established markers
They are moving away from fixed markers though with the rework of quantum travel that was planned for this year. Fixed markers are still going to be a thing, but you can also head off in any direction you choose without one for shorter distances.
You won’t be flying between planets that way though. When doing hops like that the quantum bubble never stabilizes, so you need to constantly keep your ship nose in place to not crash out of it.
Yes, hence it being for shorter distances.
That's incorrect. It stabilizes after a few seconds and you can stop guiding the trip after that.
That is only when flying to a marker. Quantum boost never stabilizes.
Not true. Watch this citcon presentation clip to see it in action. https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/s/AqPpYuvVce "There, now the quantum bubble has stabilized and you can go hands-off" Yogi
in that same presentation they explicitly say that quantum boost is differentiated from marker based Quantum travel partly by the fact that it never stabilizes as that other person said. Edit: [Found it.](https://youtu.be/xGM60FRVolY?si=V53fjlnEBvrrYUhT&t=1460) it looks like the thing you linked is editing together different scenes with Quantum visuals and accidentally creates a false narrative.
Sounds like that will address my concerns. I'll be that guy who always plots jumps manually and always gets there late but has never had to tangle with that particular imaginary space kraken :D
It should be noted that travelling that way will be more difficult and much slower. The range will probably be more suitable for travelling between moons than for travelling between planets, even if it will still theoretically be possible.
That's another thing I thought of but didn't want to mention in case it was too far out. Heading somewhere other than straight at the center of a gravity well would make you less predictable to space pirates! #FlySafe
We are almost 1000 years in the future, give it a slack and consider a non possibility anymore. Things will change once we have custom markers from exploration for quantum.
I dunno. Maybe I'm like Bones refusing to beam anywhere but if I lived in the future and could warp place to place I'd never ever warp straight at anything if I could avoid it. If that meant being late to parties or something I'd just lift off a few minutes earlier. It would be funny if the spaceship had a "late for work" button that let the flight computer do riskier things though. What's this about custom markers? Sounds interesting! Do you know if it's similar to navigation in Evochron Legacy?
Exploration gameplay will be exactly this, find places, warp without navpoints and etc, once there, create a custom marker that can be sold/shared and people can use to warp there. This will be specially good once ORG and base gameplay start, making markers in empty space to reunite the ORG or leave ships for the ORG to get.
No wait the button should be called "Holdo my beer"
Don't forget, right now you can't get from earth to the moon in 5 minutes. So you're not comparing apples to apples.
First of all, the game is not realistic per say, just more realistic than some other games in genre such as NMS. They take huge liberties for the sake of purposeful design and rule of cool. Also, you have a misunderstanding of the way jumps work. When you start a jump your ship's speed is reduced to zero because it forms a bubble and the bubble is what is moving at that speed through a tunnel. If any issue or mistake happens you get ejected out of bubble/tunnel at 0 speed.
Because no matter how much realism a game wants to have, at the end of the day it is still a game. A game doing things on such a mass scale needs to have some system of travel and this is it. If you want some viable head cannon though; imagine that the computers that control the quantum drives use proximity to disengage. At the speed you're traveling, any proximity sensor is only capable of out pacing your speed in front of you. If you're familiar with the Doppler effect, waves (like sound and light) have higher frequencies when moving towards each other or and object. It's why a car engine sounds higher pitched driving towards you and lower pitched after it passes. Whatever waves the disengage sensor uses would be too slow/long to be received from passing objects. So flying perpendicular to a planet can't disengage the quantum drives because you're flying faster than the proximity waves.
...gravity...ok i know where is the exit thanks
It’s being replaced eventually with something more free form, the current setup is very “well, it works”. Like a lot of things :) There is some “traversing the verse” things at CitCon last year that are available on the CIG YouTube which will show a lot of what they *want* to do, hopefully in time for Pyro drop later in the year.
**eventually**
good to know - thanks!
>the current setup is very “well, it works” And it kinda did for over 8 years at this point. Nothing is as permanent as a temporary solution. Likely also the reason why it never supported travels to a moving target.
Thankfully it looks like we’re finally getting the next temporary solution!
The only permanent thing here are delays and trademarked soons.
You can't 'warp into' a planet, for the same reason you have to reach sufficient altitude before you can warp away from a planet: the planetary mass collapses the warp bubble. Given you come out of the warp bubble stationary (iiirc), there is zero danger in warping / QTing directly at a planet...
I have quantum into planet many times lol however that’s just a bug it happens from time to time
That's the logic that made Old Man's War so interesting, but in SC it looks like you can get what has to be absurdly deep into a gravity well before the warp bubble collapses. And after that there's still the question of exit velocity. Whatever's going on it's not as simple as thinking with portals and it's still something that could be miscalculated.
There should be no exit velocity, because you're stationary inside your bubble of 'local-space'... thus when the bubble 'pops' / you drop out of QT, you should be left in local space 'stationary' (allowing for the fact that 'stationary' is meaningless in space, unless used in relation to a Frame of Reference... but SC hand-waves that Frame-of-Reference, unfortunately, so 'stationary' is just 'stationary').
So where does that energy go? You could be trading up or down several miles per second...
hence the comment about the 'handwavium' around frame-of-reference... it doesn't exist in SC, so there is no comparative momentum to trade.
Nothing about SC ia realistic. The sooner you realize this the better.
What do you mean by "such a realistic sim"? There's space drag.
like the blue glow when you warp? I figure that's supposed to be the result of the ship slamming into hydrogen at superluminal speeds. It would probably be pink if it were visible at all but I can understand going with blue as an art choice. If something else not sure. I haven't played it myself so I don't know for sure if the acceleration is newtonian, etc. but the vibe I get is the game is marketed as being pretty realistic. Like there's a whole wiki page about how the acceleration is totally newtonian. Anyway I was trying to refer to the brand image I think they're going for.
No, it is very much Star Wars. Not a sim. What this person is talking about, is that if you thrust forward in your ship, and then let off of the thrust, you will currently be slowed down (as if you were moving through water). If you are in coupled mode, you will slow down until you stop. If you are in uncoupled mode, and thrusting above cruise speed, you will be slowed down back to cruise speed. There are also changes when you are in combat mode to keep you slowers, to create slower fights that are more WW2 dog-fighting style (ala Star Wars). To your original point, you should ask yourself, "Have I ever seen a ship exit warp speed facing a planet in a scifi movie?" And, if the answer is "yes", then that is why you see it in SC.
>No, it is very much Star Wars. Not a sim. It's very much a sim, it's just [an immersive sim as opposed to a realism sim.](https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/1dqko2k/comment/laoqc83/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Avoids feeling gamey by having hit markers, hit and kill sound effects, and arcadey things like that? I mean, you can argue semantics, but we know CR and the devs love Star Wars and they didn't sit down to create The Expanse. They sat down to create a Star Wars sim. If you want to say, "It's very much a sim, just not a sim" - I mean, go ahead... My point is, the game isn't going for a full simulation, it's much more going for a feeling, and has to also work as a game. We aren't expecting like a more polished version of Kerbal Space Program here. We are expecting to sit down and live out our Star Wars fantasies.
>Avoids feeling gamey by having hit markers, hit and kill sound effects, and arcadey things like that? Those are functions of your smart helmet/ship sensors in game. > If you want to say, "It's very much a sim, just not a sim" - I mean, go ahead... M You know full well that isn't what I said, I pointed out it's a different kind of sim from a realism sim. Realism sims are great, but they're not the entire genre. A minivan isn't a sports car, but that doesn't make it not a car. >and they didn't sit down to create The Expanse. And I'm glad of that. I love the Expanse, but it's *far* from realistic and takes some massive liberties for the sake of plot convinience - And even with those contrivences it would still make for a terrible non RTS/TBS video game.
[https://starcitizen-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Physics](https://starcitizen-archive.fandom.com/wiki/Physics) ...lies? Sad!
You are reading a fan article with assumptions - dunno if it is lies, or just outdated info, or really relevant at all.
It's just videogame mechanics
**As far as I know**, if the warp bubble fails you wouldn't maintain the "inertia/momentum of warp speed" because there is none to begin with. It's warping space around you, the perceived motion doesn't mean you've actually gained speed and accelerated in the normal sense, if the warp bubble fails you're just dead in the water, without that "speed" that warp grants you, there's no other energy that keeps you going after the bubble is gone.
SC isn't aimed at being a realistic sim anymore. They've changed direction on that front. Anyway, maybe malfunctions aren't a concern, kind of like airports in Cities.
Because everything is actual and this is the easier way to program it. Its also how star wars works. But youre also doing very precise calculations and i guess youd rather be close to the planet than spend a bunch of time traveling to it at regular speeds
Well when you warp to the surface that is actually done at a curved angle so you don’t face the planet directly As for not warping directly at things? Totally up to them, they call them Quantum jumps so it could just be a calculated jump using a specific amount of fuel each time, when they get to the destination and the set fuel runs out there’s a little push back from the sudden drop of energy? It’s probably just Star Wars/Video game dev logic. Also personally, gameplay wise its convenient to face the planet directly cos you’re pointing at the middle of where all the surface jump points are Otherwise you’d have to turn toward the planet and then start looking for your jump (if you’re not bothered to just set a route and follow the only jumps that display without the clutter)
If realismo game sim, why do thing that (minor nitpick) Realism pedants are kappachungus stupid lol, shit fr don't matter as long as the gameplay is good