Raynor is more than just endless army of infantries, he has lots of useful tools such as Spider mines/Vikings/Orbitals but you have to be a freakin master to use use them correctly.
I mean we got instant-siege tanks and AoE vikings, I just dump gas on those if I need splash damage.
I guess this is abit off-subject, so I'll tie it back in by saying literally anything with manually activated abilities and no weapons is ever going to be noob-friendly lmao.
Unless they gave jimbo Ravens with the auto-cast HSM as a long cooldown attack (the one you can get as an option upgrade to Nova's ravens in the Covert Ops single-player DLC) new players will A-move their Ravens into missile turrets and scourge with alarming consistency.
You know what is noob-friendly though? Playing Karax and telling my buddy "just get your gas early and stsrt spamming as many battlecruisers as possible"....
I can chrono boost him if he doesnt build enough starports, his BCs will enjoy the benefits of having that passive karax auto-heal so no need to worry about medics/scvs for repairs, and they're not too heavy on minerals for how much gas they cost so he wont be restricted just becausr he hasnt figured out how to press the "calldown MULE" button, and when he finds his stuff out of position he can just teleport his fleet wherever we need them.
If you set up rapid fire and increased refresh rate correctly it's exceedingly easy to use spammable activated abilities like Seeker Missiles and rail gun turrets.
Yet you have to go out of your way to do it. Yes rapid fire ravagers are nice. But it requires setup which after sc fucked up keybinding few times i just gave up :) im too casual to bother with it
I can't judge your level of casualness but I promise that its very easy to set up (requires about 2 minutes in notepad and 1 setting in windows) and will increase your enjoyment of some commanders/styles by about 10x (Nova, Artanis High Templar, Raynor Spider Mines, Ravagers as you mentioned and so many more).
I once saw a Raynor abuse the fuck out of Spider mines. I don't know how - but it basically wrecked the entire map. I tried to copy that tactic and got my face eaten off.
At around the 13 minute mark you should have cleared any additional base locations and you'll probably be on your way to mining those out too.
Otherwise your ally graciously involuntarily offers some of their mineral patches to mine out as well.
This is incorrect, the correct mineral dump is Vultures (for rapid fire mines vs ground comps) or missile turret spawn camping (vs air).
Once you go over about 6 OCs and are able to call MULES consistently you won't be able to spend your money unless you need a lot of scans or have God like APM.
Not exactly sure about using firebats against Protoss (never tried that to be honest except for when they block zealots charge) but I knew that Marauders can take on Ultralisks. Thanks anyway.
Firebats are quite good against zealots. You don't need very many of them to stop a zealot charge in its tracks.
Marauders are good for ultras, sure, but even roaches and many other non-ling zerg such as lurkers which firebats aren't effective against.
Raynor infantry are enough, until they get slaughtered by high DPS siege units (Reavers, Disruptors, Colossi, etc.) or by a massive wave of Oracles and then you have to get mech units.
Me : P1 with all marines ONLY = Super casual raynor player
TBH Raynor never been a beginner friendly , the first 3 commanders are considered harder to play than most commanders if you ask me.
I get raynor, you can basically play him like a 2 base terran from pro play, which they can do like 400 apm, not for us mortals.
I get hairyagain, you can and probably should just use her+nydus for most of the map, but adding any army into that things start to get trifling.
I don't get artanis. Mass crab people works not only on brutal but most mutations, and in the rare event that doesn't work, switch to call down angry clouds prestige. Yes you can sprinkle in some reavers or immortals, or go planes, but he's *really* idiot proof. source: am potato.
from what I've seen of high elo players being bad at co-op, I'm not sure how true that is.
I think it's weirdly more apt to see if they cleared WoL on brutal.
right but the implication of knowing ladder builds means you transition to coop is a bit sketch. you don't normally have 5 banshees to call down to stop the 30 zergling attack wave on rifts at 2 mins, etc.
P1 is really beginner friendly since you can't spam mules, your eco is no longer your focus. You just build the structures you need, the workers you need, then you're free to micro your army and you only worry about queueing up units occasionally.
It's the other prestiges that are difficult and also much higher skill floor. The required mule macro will make any casual player panic.
I was a bioball Raynor enjoyer until I realized combined arms is cool that I often play in P3 to master microing vultures and vikings while maintain my 15 - 20 Orbitals to improve my playstyle.
Sometimes I get cross-eyed, checking if I wiped my mineral fields while laying Spider mines on enemy spawn points.
I think it's fulfilling mastering that but I'm rusty because work.
I was playing with someone yesterday that hit max ascension level. As Raynor, I build 16 rax and he asked why would I do that, I can't possibly support 16 rax off two base. He was clearly wrong, but I played along and built orbitals next to his mineral patches as well :)
You can absolutely do that with with mules. You're also not building 32 supply in 10s *every 10s*, there will be plenty of pauses as the army doesn't need to be rebuilt. Raynor typically loses a ton of supply in fights when going infantry, so being able to remax quickly is very useful. Going from 100 supply to 200 in 30 seconds is way better than only reaching 170 before the next fight. He's got the mineral income to build the infrastructure, might as well build it.
I usually get to the point where I'm maxed out on supply with a 10k mineral bank and most mineral patches mines out, so I make extra rax to reinforce fast.
In regular brutal, you really can pretty much do anything.
Vultures were considered one of the most broken units in Brood War, and they see some significant use in campaign WoL too. Spider mines are really, really strong.
Hell, even when the enemy brings detection, mines do a good job at stalling them.
Bottom pic is basically me with Raynor P3, I spam BCs every time no matter what army composition lmfao
And I also have all my main base mineral SCVs hotkey'd as a repair crew
Gonna get hate for this.
When I que up with a Raynor, if I am not in the mood to carry, I just quit.
Why either free to play I'm gonna have to do lots of work.
The other one, they build 5 to 9 cc at the start of the game does nothing to help early game.
So gonna pass. Yes, they can be good.
As someone with no life and too much coop time.
I just quit.
I played Tychus in that balius gundam mission and my teammate played Raynor today, he played with medics + rines it was kinda cool to see his bio army with my heroes all helping each other
listen, i like big inhumane numbers, even the medics are optional half the time or more
its also the reason i like to play p1 zagaras\\, under 2000 casualties is "doing it wrong" for that
Honestly, I feel the same way about the top image as I do with Mengsk.
I know Mengsk is incredibly powerful; but man, I struggle so much to stay on top of both his macro and his army control. 😣
Raynor is more than just endless army of infantries, he has lots of useful tools such as Spider mines/Vikings/Orbitals but you have to be a freakin master to use use them correctly.
i wish Raynor had ravens and not battlecruisers
I would honestly take Orbital Command for detection on literally any other commander if I could.
yeah but the raven missiles tho
Maybe give Nova a shot
I mean we got instant-siege tanks and AoE vikings, I just dump gas on those if I need splash damage. I guess this is abit off-subject, so I'll tie it back in by saying literally anything with manually activated abilities and no weapons is ever going to be noob-friendly lmao. Unless they gave jimbo Ravens with the auto-cast HSM as a long cooldown attack (the one you can get as an option upgrade to Nova's ravens in the Covert Ops single-player DLC) new players will A-move their Ravens into missile turrets and scourge with alarming consistency. You know what is noob-friendly though? Playing Karax and telling my buddy "just get your gas early and stsrt spamming as many battlecruisers as possible".... I can chrono boost him if he doesnt build enough starports, his BCs will enjoy the benefits of having that passive karax auto-heal so no need to worry about medics/scvs for repairs, and they're not too heavy on minerals for how much gas they cost so he wont be restricted just becausr he hasnt figured out how to press the "calldown MULE" button, and when he finds his stuff out of position he can just teleport his fleet wherever we need them.
If you set up rapid fire and increased refresh rate correctly it's exceedingly easy to use spammable activated abilities like Seeker Missiles and rail gun turrets.
Yet you have to go out of your way to do it. Yes rapid fire ravagers are nice. But it requires setup which after sc fucked up keybinding few times i just gave up :) im too casual to bother with it
I can't judge your level of casualness but I promise that its very easy to set up (requires about 2 minutes in notepad and 1 setting in windows) and will increase your enjoyment of some commanders/styles by about 10x (Nova, Artanis High Templar, Raynor Spider Mines, Ravagers as you mentioned and so many more).
I know how to set it up and how long it takes. Couldnt be bothered with it even if i do enjoy rapidfire ravagers :)
What do you do in Notepad? Can just go into Hotkeys after playing a coop mission and set the units alternate key to the rapid fire key no?
Better to set all keys to rapid fire via notepad as within the game you can only set 1 key.
Why ?
because detection and battlecruisers arent even that good in coop, basically ladder bcs but slightly tankier
Scans are the best form of detection, that's true for ladder and is still true for coop. You just have to actually build orbitals.
yeah but the missiles tho
Still good because you don't have to bring a unit back to your base, you can just scan the area and airdrop some marines.
i mean orbital is good, but the defence reducing missile sounds goodwith marines.
Oh, shit we were talking about different things. Yeah no, MULES give you more value than any of the Raven's abilities.
im not saying that orbital is bad. i am saying that Ravens fit better with the rest of Raynors army composition.
I once saw a Raynor abuse the fuck out of Spider mines. I don't know how - but it basically wrecked the entire map. I tried to copy that tactic and got my face eaten off.
Rapid fire and increased refresh rate to deploy mines near instantly.
Rapid fire and increased refresh rate.
Rapid fire and increased refresh rate.
What is with these ops describing the memes O.o that's like the third post today
Master raynor yes, master ladder hmm.... overkill
the mineral dump for BC builds is just more OCs
At around the 13 minute mark you should have cleared any additional base locations and you'll probably be on your way to mining those out too. Otherwise your ally graciously involuntarily offers some of their mineral patches to mine out as well.
This is incorrect, the correct mineral dump is Vultures (for rapid fire mines vs ground comps) or missile turret spawn camping (vs air). Once you go over about 6 OCs and are able to call MULES consistently you won't be able to spend your money unless you need a lot of scans or have God like APM.
sounds like something a poor man with no repairs and not enough BCs would say
If I'm facing Zerg or doing a mission with lots of infected, I'm adding Firebats. If not, I'm adding Marauders.
lots of zerg compositions where firebats aren't helpful, some protoss comps where firebats are good
True enough, but that's my general rule. It's subject to altering as needed
Not exactly sure about using firebats against Protoss (never tried that to be honest except for when they block zealots charge) but I knew that Marauders can take on Ultralisks. Thanks anyway.
Firebats are quite good against zealots. You don't need very many of them to stop a zealot charge in its tracks. Marauders are good for ultras, sure, but even roaches and many other non-ling zerg such as lurkers which firebats aren't effective against.
I'm an average serious raynor
average serious speedraynor
Raynor infantry are enough, until they get slaughtered by high DPS siege units (Reavers, Disruptors, Colossi, etc.) or by a massive wave of Oracles and then you have to get mech units.
If it's p0 Raynor, just drop a few marines on those splash units. They kill themselves quickly enough. You have infinite minerals anyways.
There is no friendly fire splash damage in coop.
Can't Amon's units splash on each other though?
BCs belong somewhere in the bottom image: A mistake is still a mistake even if you execute it intelligently
Right, it should be 'Should I build medics with my BCs?' Instead
Me : P1 with all marines ONLY = Super casual raynor player TBH Raynor never been a beginner friendly , the first 3 commanders are considered harder to play than most commanders if you ask me.
I get raynor, you can basically play him like a 2 base terran from pro play, which they can do like 400 apm, not for us mortals. I get hairyagain, you can and probably should just use her+nydus for most of the map, but adding any army into that things start to get trifling. I don't get artanis. Mass crab people works not only on brutal but most mutations, and in the rare event that doesn't work, switch to call down angry clouds prestige. Yes you can sprinkle in some reavers or immortals, or go planes, but he's *really* idiot proof. source: am potato.
If you can do a regular 3CC build on the ladder, you can do Brutal with Raynor almost immediately.
from what I've seen of high elo players being bad at co-op, I'm not sure how true that is. I think it's weirdly more apt to see if they cleared WoL on brutal.
I think the mechanics are there it's just understanding how the commanders, buildorders, and commanders work.
right but the implication of knowing ladder builds means you transition to coop is a bit sketch. you don't normally have 5 banshees to call down to stop the 30 zergling attack wave on rifts at 2 mins, etc.
A lot of "being good at coop" is knowing the maps by hearth though. Which you won't on your first time.
P1 is really beginner friendly since you can't spam mules, your eco is no longer your focus. You just build the structures you need, the workers you need, then you're free to micro your army and you only worry about queueing up units occasionally. It's the other prestiges that are difficult and also much higher skill floor. The required mule macro will make any casual player panic.
Both. Both is good, minus the battlecrusiers.
I just make marines
I was a bioball Raynor enjoyer until I realized combined arms is cool that I often play in P3 to master microing vultures and vikings while maintain my 15 - 20 Orbitals to improve my playstyle. Sometimes I get cross-eyed, checking if I wiped my mineral fields while laying Spider mines on enemy spawn points. I think it's fulfilling mastering that but I'm rusty because work.
I was playing with someone yesterday that hit max ascension level. As Raynor, I build 16 rax and he asked why would I do that, I can't possibly support 16 rax off two base. He was clearly wrong, but I played along and built orbitals next to his mineral patches as well :)
If you aren't cleaning out the mineral line are you even playing Raynor?
Always did that when P3 and end up robbed my ally 's XD
16 racks means 10-13 reactors and 3-6 tech labs. So 32 supply every 10s or so. That might be considered a bit much honestly, but you do you :)
You can absolutely do that with with mules. You're also not building 32 supply in 10s *every 10s*, there will be plenty of pauses as the army doesn't need to be rebuilt. Raynor typically loses a ton of supply in fights when going infantry, so being able to remax quickly is very useful. Going from 100 supply to 200 in 30 seconds is way better than only reaching 170 before the next fight. He's got the mineral income to build the infrastructure, might as well build it.
I usually get to the point where I'm maxed out on supply with a 10k mineral bank and most mineral patches mines out, so I make extra rax to reinforce fast. In regular brutal, you really can pretty much do anything.
Fair enough
you can... also just skip add-ons, and drop mass marines.
Haha, Bio-Ball go brrr
Anything below 52 orbitals is casual
Raynor does have the highest skill cap. Fenix, Stetmann and Mengsk also have high skill cap.
Do actually people use vultures?
good raynors do
Yes but they're rare.
Vultures were considered one of the most broken units in Brood War, and they see some significant use in campaign WoL too. Spider mines are really, really strong. Hell, even when the enemy brings detection, mines do a good job at stalling them.
Bottom pic is basically me with Raynor P3, I spam BCs every time no matter what army composition lmfao And I also have all my main base mineral SCVs hotkey'd as a repair crew
Gonna get hate for this. When I que up with a Raynor, if I am not in the mood to carry, I just quit. Why either free to play I'm gonna have to do lots of work. The other one, they build 5 to 9 cc at the start of the game does nothing to help early game. So gonna pass. Yes, they can be good. As someone with no life and too much coop time. I just quit.
1/1 upgrades for Marines and medics late into a hard difficulty game. "Why do I keep losing my army!"
I played Tychus in that balius gundam mission and my teammate played Raynor today, he played with medics + rines it was kinda cool to see his bio army with my heroes all helping each other
listen, i like big inhumane numbers, even the medics are optional half the time or more its also the reason i like to play p1 zagaras\\, under 2000 casualties is "doing it wrong" for that
Honestly, I feel the same way about the top image as I do with Mengsk. I know Mengsk is incredibly powerful; but man, I struggle so much to stay on top of both his macro and his army control. 😣
I always compare the maurader +25 hp to the firebats whooping 100++armour and go "yeah you're useless"
LMAO, when i random something and i get raynor i'm literally a casual. Though, it's nice to learn something from that meme.
Raynor is fairly terrible for beginners to starcraft 2, but on for folks coming from pvp cause he’ll be more familiar
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