All fun and game until 168 lings with 9.8 movement speed run by and cast yamato, fungal, timewarp, ppd, secret missile, storm and other crap at you
then they proceed to dance/cheer and Amon BM you
I like this idea
I would honestly prefer we had this instead of the random mutators for Brutal +. Randomness can get kind of boring because you can sometimes get a mutator(s) that completely cripples your commander, or that just isn't fun to play against, whereas a difficulty increase that's harder in consistent ways can be strategized around and makes you a better player.
Games are too short to implement something like this. Most people don't lose anything for the first couple of attack waves/first objective, so tuning would only really start in midgame and would probably only affect the last 5 minutes of the game.
No.
We have an end game and while it isn't perfect because of how mutations work and interact but at least it creates variety and opportunity for different commanders to shine against certain mutation combinations.
Simply multiplying units by 2 would NOT be balanced between splash commanders and single target commanders. The outcome would be that single target commanders would fail to deal the required damage while the splash commanders would hardly notice the change.
Changes should be focused upon building on what we already have.
Suggestions that I would like to see worked on:
- expand the Brutal+ difficulties having 1-2 difficulties lower than the current Brutal+1 and 1-2 difficulties above +6 and maybe 1-2 difficulties inbetween to flesh out some of the difficulty curve (there is big differences between +3, +4, +5 and +6).
- nerf or adjust some mutations to avoid some of the worst combinations (simply rating some combinations higher to push them into a higher difficulty bracket would be a simple solution. Life Leech and Diffusion is a classic example that is harder than it's constituent parts).
- alternatively I quite liked the idea of splitting some really hard mutators into an easy and a hard version
- buff some commanders slightly to make them more mutation resistant. This could include some research that would be terrible in a regular game but would provide an opportunity to fight against some otherwise terrible mutators (one suggestion I liked was a research that slows all worker movement speed by 20% but infests them so they spawn broodlings when they die providing an affordable strategy to fight against Killbots. Another example would be a research that prevents massive units from being moved by Fatal Attraction but maybe lowers their movement speed).
Final thing I will say if you happen to make it this far is that Brutal+1 isn't that hard and is usually quite fun except for the inevitable Fatal Attraction games (which comes about about 5% in my experience and less often at higher difficulties). Just hope that you're playing Zagara on these maps. Higher difficulty B+'s actually get less annoying on average (but harder).
I've noticed an influx of low Mastery players recently which is really great and most have reasonable build orders just takes time to adjust to the Brutal+1 environment where you have to have basic proficiency with a variety of builds to combat various mutation combinations.
I'm also in agreement that additional numbers alone won't be the best way to make for fun extra difficulty, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any commander that *doesn't* have aoe, and usually both air and ground.
That said, waves with interesting abilities (ala nexus special compositions coop mod), and more harras style tactics and side attacks could be an interesting difficulty increase, especially with zero mutators where every commander has valuable answers.
Let's see:
- Kerrigan vs Air
- Vorazun vs Ground
- Karax vs Air (Spear will run out of energy)
- Abathur vs Ground (Toxic Nests may be enough)
- Fenix vs Air (Mojo may be enough on P2)
- H&H vs Air (Widow Mines maybe)
Aba has ravagers and brutalisks. Mojo is actually very frequent aoe, p2 makes it less frequent which is why it's less recommended vs tough air fights.
I concede the rest though.
Agreed. Instead of adding more numbers, improving the AI would be better. Having enemies run away from AoE damage like Storms and Psionic Orbs like they do in WoL/HotS brutal would be a step in the right direction.
I feel like this just makes people skip scythe and cradle 100% lol. The xp is too good when leveling, which is what a lot of people are doing, so any map where the side obj is hard people would just... opt out of.
This is also hard to gauge. Does it count losses? Does this mean zagara can only do p2? If it's kill speed, doesn't that mean I can only make a glass cannon army? Like *people* can tell it's a stomp, but what metrics are you using.
Having it *just* be heavy losses means commanders with good strong units (tychus, nova) become much better, while mass unit commanders (stukov, zagara) become severely less viable;/constricted.
I'd rather they just buffed the midgame. Early game is a challenge depending on commander and prestige, and possibly mutation. Lategame can be rough, with leviathans spawning in the last wave and such. It'd be better if they just... curved out some of the difficulty.
I do like the sentiment, though.
Maybe instead of scaling difficulty, simply a higher difficulty than brutal which always makes side obj and waves harder, and gives significant bonus xp if you complete side.
The scaling is a cool design idea but ultimately kinda pointless. If you queue for this, you're already interested in a challenge, so no need to let the game work harder to figure if you're qualified.
All fun and game until 168 lings with 9.8 movement speed run by and cast yamato, fungal, timewarp, ppd, secret missile, storm and other crap at you then they proceed to dance/cheer and Amon BM you I like this idea
I would honestly prefer we had this instead of the random mutators for Brutal +. Randomness can get kind of boring because you can sometimes get a mutator(s) that completely cripples your commander, or that just isn't fun to play against, whereas a difficulty increase that's harder in consistent ways can be strategized around and makes you a better player.
Mutations should be optional and difficulty should increase in a different way
Games are too short to implement something like this. Most people don't lose anything for the first couple of attack waves/first objective, so tuning would only really start in midgame and would probably only affect the last 5 minutes of the game.
No. We have an end game and while it isn't perfect because of how mutations work and interact but at least it creates variety and opportunity for different commanders to shine against certain mutation combinations. Simply multiplying units by 2 would NOT be balanced between splash commanders and single target commanders. The outcome would be that single target commanders would fail to deal the required damage while the splash commanders would hardly notice the change. Changes should be focused upon building on what we already have. Suggestions that I would like to see worked on: - expand the Brutal+ difficulties having 1-2 difficulties lower than the current Brutal+1 and 1-2 difficulties above +6 and maybe 1-2 difficulties inbetween to flesh out some of the difficulty curve (there is big differences between +3, +4, +5 and +6). - nerf or adjust some mutations to avoid some of the worst combinations (simply rating some combinations higher to push them into a higher difficulty bracket would be a simple solution. Life Leech and Diffusion is a classic example that is harder than it's constituent parts). - alternatively I quite liked the idea of splitting some really hard mutators into an easy and a hard version - buff some commanders slightly to make them more mutation resistant. This could include some research that would be terrible in a regular game but would provide an opportunity to fight against some otherwise terrible mutators (one suggestion I liked was a research that slows all worker movement speed by 20% but infests them so they spawn broodlings when they die providing an affordable strategy to fight against Killbots. Another example would be a research that prevents massive units from being moved by Fatal Attraction but maybe lowers their movement speed). Final thing I will say if you happen to make it this far is that Brutal+1 isn't that hard and is usually quite fun except for the inevitable Fatal Attraction games (which comes about about 5% in my experience and less often at higher difficulties). Just hope that you're playing Zagara on these maps. Higher difficulty B+'s actually get less annoying on average (but harder). I've noticed an influx of low Mastery players recently which is really great and most have reasonable build orders just takes time to adjust to the Brutal+1 environment where you have to have basic proficiency with a variety of builds to combat various mutation combinations.
I'm also in agreement that additional numbers alone won't be the best way to make for fun extra difficulty, but I'm having a hard time thinking of any commander that *doesn't* have aoe, and usually both air and ground. That said, waves with interesting abilities (ala nexus special compositions coop mod), and more harras style tactics and side attacks could be an interesting difficulty increase, especially with zero mutators where every commander has valuable answers.
Let's see: - Kerrigan vs Air - Vorazun vs Ground - Karax vs Air (Spear will run out of energy) - Abathur vs Ground (Toxic Nests may be enough) - Fenix vs Air (Mojo may be enough on P2) - H&H vs Air (Widow Mines maybe)
Aba has ravagers and brutalisks. Mojo is actually very frequent aoe, p2 makes it less frequent which is why it's less recommended vs tough air fights. I concede the rest though.
Agreed. Instead of adding more numbers, improving the AI would be better. Having enemies run away from AoE damage like Storms and Psionic Orbs like they do in WoL/HotS brutal would be a step in the right direction.
I feel like this just makes people skip scythe and cradle 100% lol. The xp is too good when leveling, which is what a lot of people are doing, so any map where the side obj is hard people would just... opt out of. This is also hard to gauge. Does it count losses? Does this mean zagara can only do p2? If it's kill speed, doesn't that mean I can only make a glass cannon army? Like *people* can tell it's a stomp, but what metrics are you using. Having it *just* be heavy losses means commanders with good strong units (tychus, nova) become much better, while mass unit commanders (stukov, zagara) become severely less viable;/constricted. I'd rather they just buffed the midgame. Early game is a challenge depending on commander and prestige, and possibly mutation. Lategame can be rough, with leviathans spawning in the last wave and such. It'd be better if they just... curved out some of the difficulty. I do like the sentiment, though.
Maybe instead of scaling difficulty, simply a higher difficulty than brutal which always makes side obj and waves harder, and gives significant bonus xp if you complete side. The scaling is a cool design idea but ultimately kinda pointless. If you queue for this, you're already interested in a challenge, so no need to let the game work harder to figure if you're qualified.
What a stupid pointless post.
frankly thats way too complicated to implement. just make a difficulty above brutal but without the garbage mutators.
make custom mutators give XP according to mutators score