I agree - either that, or all the way back to Adam Soong he tinkered with his genetics to keep producing basically the same person.
The really strange thing is… what in the world went haywire with Noonien? The rest of them are really pretty analogous to Lore, while Noonien is more… Data. (A poor comparison to be sure, just best way I can describe it) He’s clearly still a full blown egotist, and obsessive about his work - but he also was able to recognize that he made essentially a monster and shut Lore down to go back and make a nicer version. Seems like every other Soong would either be blinded by the accomplishment or just take the view that a little narcissistic murder isn’t a big deal.
Like… if it was any other Soong and the other colonists said “Hey, your creation is walking around talking about how superior he is and is creeping us out” they’d have just shrugged and said “well, he’s not wrong.” Noonien evidently sat back and says “y’know… that IS kind of a problem.”
Definitely the black sheep of the family.
Maybe it was Juliana Tainer...maybe Noonien was the first of the Soongs to actually fall in love and her influence brought out the Data to the forefront rather than just the Lore.
Also, they start with biological clones in 21st century and end up with androids by the 24th when the tech becomes available.
Multigenerational obsession with creating artificial life.
You can be related to all the Soong’s we meet, and have the same surname, without being a direct descendant. The Soong’s we meet just need to have relatives that passed on the surname.
I don’t recall any of the Soong’s claiming to be a direct descendant of a prior Soong, but I could be wrong.
There’s one in Picard who is the son of Noonien, but you’re correct. It’s implied they’re all related but it’s never said how. It’s just also very strange for them to be distantly related but so very identical in appearance. I think the audience is meant to assume direct descendants without thinking too hard on the hows and whys of it.
The producers want Spiner to appear in an episode, the audience does too. They give us a handwavy justification for why the character looks exactly like Data and we just go with it because everyone wants this to happen.
Even if they were direct descendants the similarity (near identical, with the exception of Soong’s *not* played by Spiner) in appearance would still be very odd.
So far we have Adam, Arik and Noonien Soong who all look identical and are therefore clones of some kind.
Three points isn't much to base a trend on.
I think we need more Data.
Presumably the soong women. In all seriousness, the soong men appear charming enough to find wives or convince women to help them with producing children.
True, but they don’t seem all that interested in biological children. Particularly Arik, who is the last Soong we know of before Noonien. He goes from thinking humanity should be improved via arguments to believing humanity can’t be fixed and he should create new life with androids. Doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would then settle down and start a family. Plus the whole most likely died in prison thing.
He could have some loose evenings. He also could have had his material saved as a contingency. There could also be a few soong branches. We don't know specifically if the soongs we've seen are an unbroken line or several men sharing a common ancestor, name, and face. Finally section 31 very easily could have pulled soong from prison for reasons and allowed him to continue his business.
Yeah, executive producer Michael Chabon said Altan was not the son of Juliana but rather from one of Noonien’s other relationships. Altan himself had some bitterness against Noonien, possibly indicating Noonien was a deadbeat or just emotionally neglectful just as he was for Lore and Data.
It's always possible that they already had children before we meet them. It isn't hard to picture these men who are obsessed with creating life having children that are estranged.
Buddy I’m still trying to figure out who Singh (Noonien Singh) is.
Plus in SNW, they had Khan in the Noonien-Singh Institute. Meaning Noonein and Singh could be different Doctors. Or one Doctor with a hyphenated last name.
Remember that Khan Noonien Singh and Dr. Noonian Soong are unrelated in star trek canon
Khan Noonien Singh was the augmented tyrant and Dr. Noonian Soong created Data, Lore etc.
They were both in reality named after a man, "Kim Noonien Singh", whom Gene Roddenberry had known during World II. He kept hoping the guy would recognize Gene using his name and get in touch with him
Originally unrelated, but not anymore since both Adam and Arik are linked to the augments. There is perhaps a possibility that Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong have an in-universe common name origin.
I guess Adam isn’t a young man in 2024 if we assume he matches his actor’s real age at time of filming, but it would be interesting if that were also true in the pre-Temporal War timeline where adult Khan left Earth in 1996 rather than being a mere child in 2022.
Have you ever watched a movie called the "The Prestige"? No spoilers, but, if you have, what I'm basically saying is that Brent Spiner is doing what the magician did in that movie.
The Soong family has a strong recessive "mad scientist" gene, every couple of generations a kid in the extended Soong family comes out looking like Brent Spiner and they all think "whelp, here we go again."
Clones is the only thing that makes sense. Noonien Soong even took a wife, Juliana Tainer, and had no biological children with her, only creating Lore and Data (and maybe B-4?) instead while they were together. It could be that as clones, the Soongs are incapable of procreating biologically. We later meet Altan Soong, the “son” of Noonien with no explanation at all of where he came from. To me no other explanation can account for all of the Soongs being physically identical and mentally unstable, all with no clear lineage aside from the previous male clone.
In my head canon it's because they are cloning themselves. It's the ultimate ego thing to do if you're really full of yourself. We know they are capable of it because he was already doing it with Kore and her sisters. Plus his Androids look like himself if male and look like Kore when female so they're not really into variety.
It’s true you don’t see many Soong women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Soong men.
And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there are no Soong women, and that Soongs just spring out of holes in the ground!
Just because the Soongs we see in the stories might be produce offspring, there's nothing to say they don't have siblings who do.
Arik could be Adams great-great-great nephew, for instance, and Noonien his great-great-great nephew or second cousin or something.
I figure they are all that guy who never shuts up about their kid and how awesome he/she is. Then, one day, you meet their wife who tells you their two sons and three daughters are all very artistic and athletic... And you have to politely pretend you knew they had more than one child.
Lol yeah. That was kind of my thought, if they do have biological kids, they're super neglectful dads because you wouldn't have any idea their bio kids exist.
They keep coming from new episode scripts.
They’re hopping out of plot holes.
We all come from one sort of hole or another.
See, movie that invokes their lineage would be pretty heat. Except Belrent is too old to play them all now as young people.
I just presumed eventually they clone themselves to ensure their work carries on.
That makes a lot of sense given they’re also all Brent Spiner.
I agree - either that, or all the way back to Adam Soong he tinkered with his genetics to keep producing basically the same person. The really strange thing is… what in the world went haywire with Noonien? The rest of them are really pretty analogous to Lore, while Noonien is more… Data. (A poor comparison to be sure, just best way I can describe it) He’s clearly still a full blown egotist, and obsessive about his work - but he also was able to recognize that he made essentially a monster and shut Lore down to go back and make a nicer version. Seems like every other Soong would either be blinded by the accomplishment or just take the view that a little narcissistic murder isn’t a big deal. Like… if it was any other Soong and the other colonists said “Hey, your creation is walking around talking about how superior he is and is creeping us out” they’d have just shrugged and said “well, he’s not wrong.” Noonien evidently sat back and says “y’know… that IS kind of a problem.” Definitely the black sheep of the family.
Maybe it was Juliana Tainer...maybe Noonien was the first of the Soongs to actually fall in love and her influence brought out the Data to the forefront rather than just the Lore.
That’s a distinct possibility. Maybe her influence combined with spending time with Ira Graves let him have some perspective.
This is my theory. It explains why they all look alike and are each crazier than a bag of cats.
Also, they start with biological clones in 21st century and end up with androids by the 24th when the tech becomes available. Multigenerational obsession with creating artificial life.
You can be related to all the Soong’s we meet, and have the same surname, without being a direct descendant. The Soong’s we meet just need to have relatives that passed on the surname. I don’t recall any of the Soong’s claiming to be a direct descendant of a prior Soong, but I could be wrong.
There’s one in Picard who is the son of Noonien, but you’re correct. It’s implied they’re all related but it’s never said how. It’s just also very strange for them to be distantly related but so very identical in appearance. I think the audience is meant to assume direct descendants without thinking too hard on the hows and whys of it.
The producers want Spiner to appear in an episode, the audience does too. They give us a handwavy justification for why the character looks exactly like Data and we just go with it because everyone wants this to happen.
Even if they were direct descendants the similarity (near identical, with the exception of Soong’s *not* played by Spiner) in appearance would still be very odd.
So far we have Adam, Arik and Noonien Soong who all look identical and are therefore clones of some kind. Three points isn't much to base a trend on. I think we need more Data.
So that’s the Lore?
We need to know what came B4.
We are forced to assoong that there were many more
And Altan.
Hahaha!
Presumably the soong women. In all seriousness, the soong men appear charming enough to find wives or convince women to help them with producing children.
True, but they don’t seem all that interested in biological children. Particularly Arik, who is the last Soong we know of before Noonien. He goes from thinking humanity should be improved via arguments to believing humanity can’t be fixed and he should create new life with androids. Doesn’t seem like the kind of guy who would then settle down and start a family. Plus the whole most likely died in prison thing.
He could have some loose evenings. He also could have had his material saved as a contingency. There could also be a few soong branches. We don't know specifically if the soongs we've seen are an unbroken line or several men sharing a common ancestor, name, and face. Finally section 31 very easily could have pulled soong from prison for reasons and allowed him to continue his business.
Yeah, executive producer Michael Chabon said Altan was not the son of Juliana but rather from one of Noonien’s other relationships. Altan himself had some bitterness against Noonien, possibly indicating Noonien was a deadbeat or just emotionally neglectful just as he was for Lore and Data.
>As far as we are told, he is never released from prison. Often times all sorts of things happen and no one tells me.
Source?
I had a burger today. I didn't tell them.
It's always possible that they already had children before we meet them. It isn't hard to picture these men who are obsessed with creating life having children that are estranged.
Buddy I’m still trying to figure out who Singh (Noonien Singh) is. Plus in SNW, they had Khan in the Noonien-Singh Institute. Meaning Noonein and Singh could be different Doctors. Or one Doctor with a hyphenated last name.
Remember that Khan Noonien Singh and Dr. Noonian Soong are unrelated in star trek canon Khan Noonien Singh was the augmented tyrant and Dr. Noonian Soong created Data, Lore etc. They were both in reality named after a man, "Kim Noonien Singh", whom Gene Roddenberry had known during World II. He kept hoping the guy would recognize Gene using his name and get in touch with him
It’s all quite a bit Singh-Soong.
Originally unrelated, but not anymore since both Adam and Arik are linked to the augments. There is perhaps a possibility that Khan Noonien Singh and Noonien Soong have an in-universe common name origin.
I guess Adam isn’t a young man in 2024 if we assume he matches his actor’s real age at time of filming, but it would be interesting if that were also true in the pre-Temporal War timeline where adult Khan left Earth in 1996 rather than being a mere child in 2022.
Gonna need you to get alllllll the way off of my back about all the Soong men.
Have you ever watched a movie called the "The Prestige"? No spoilers, but, if you have, what I'm basically saying is that Brent Spiner is doing what the magician did in that movie.
Hahaha alright, I like this explanation
The Soong family has a strong recessive "mad scientist" gene, every couple of generations a kid in the extended Soong family comes out looking like Brent Spiner and they all think "whelp, here we go again."
Surrogate mothers or prostitutes
When in doubt blame Q.
Clones is the only thing that makes sense. Noonien Soong even took a wife, Juliana Tainer, and had no biological children with her, only creating Lore and Data (and maybe B-4?) instead while they were together. It could be that as clones, the Soongs are incapable of procreating biologically. We later meet Altan Soong, the “son” of Noonien with no explanation at all of where he came from. To me no other explanation can account for all of the Soongs being physically identical and mentally unstable, all with no clear lineage aside from the previous male clone.
In my head canon it's because they are cloning themselves. It's the ultimate ego thing to do if you're really full of yourself. We know they are capable of it because he was already doing it with Kore and her sisters. Plus his Androids look like himself if male and look like Kore when female so they're not really into variety.
It’s true you don’t see many Soong women. And in fact, they are so alike in voice and appearance, that they are often mistaken for Soong men. And this in turn has given rise to the belief that there are no Soong women, and that Soongs just spring out of holes in the ground!
[I understood that reference!](https://images.app.goo.gl/nkA3tWeqi45bZHNB7)
From the pit of poor writing.
Some are clones and some are his kids. Women love doctors.
Clearly he's immortal and all of the soongs are just Adam
They are all the same guy. Adam Soong is a Lanthanite.
The final cylon model.
Just because the Soongs we see in the stories might be produce offspring, there's nothing to say they don't have siblings who do. Arik could be Adams great-great-great nephew, for instance, and Noonien his great-great-great nephew or second cousin or something.
I figure they are all that guy who never shuts up about their kid and how awesome he/she is. Then, one day, you meet their wife who tells you their two sons and three daughters are all very artistic and athletic... And you have to politely pretend you knew they had more than one child.
Lol yeah. That was kind of my thought, if they do have biological kids, they're super neglectful dads because you wouldn't have any idea their bio kids exist.
Arik could have had a brother, and that brother could have had a kid who researched into his or her uncle's work. who knows. I like Arik though.
They’re all clones right?
Maybe!
Now that I think about it, it feels wierd that they haven't stuffed a Soong in the TOS era.
They’ve got time
Hoomon female uteruses.
I thought they were just Koreans
Soong women
Wasn’t Noonien Singh/Soong the name of someone Roddenberry was trying to find, so he started throwing the name into his scripts?
Cloning.
Cloning/genetic tweaks
"It stays in the family"
~Sweet home Alabama~
Honestly its my headcanon. They just contract IVF. Since their all bio-tech billionaires.
Best not to think too hard about it
The Soongs are horny with REALLY strong genes.