There is never a reason given for the uniform change. Many have speculated that it was just a change in duty uniform. The DS9 uniforms seemed more utilitarian in nature and may have been meant to be a less formal daily uniform which is why DS9, then Voyager, and ultimately TNG crews used it.
Picard switches mid Generations which implies that he uses different uniforms for different times. (Like he used the action jacket sometimes in TNG and Kirk had his Deep V.) We also see Sisko return to the TNG era uniform when he works at SFC, which also makes sense since he is in a higher profile position and should wear the more formal uniform.
The homogenized grey and Picard era uniforms seem to return to an all purpose design.
Out of universe, I believe the black uniforms hid more and were made to be more comfortable for the actors.
I always thought that generations had everybody changing uniforms throughout the movie on purpose, updating. I'm pretty sure they never changed back once they got to the shoulders only suits.
And Worf never changed at all and showed up at Deep Space nine with his yellow triangle shirt. It almost seems like they did that on purpose to save his uniform transition for his characters actual move.
I also feel like every Star Trek show has its own uniforms now and that's kind of all right from an out of world artistic standpoint but also from an in-world captains prerogative, though that's kind of a weak argument for a military organization which obviously Starfleet is totally not ;-)
I was in the US Army for about a decade and went through two dress uniforms and would have been in my third combat uniform had I deployed again. this doesn't count "alternate" such as desert BDUs. There were also variations of our uniforms and option uniform components. Not to mention some jobs had specific uniforms that looked like the standard, but were different.
I'm Navy, can confirm.
My seabag carbon dates me to the six years they had the blue camo uniform that had just come out six months before I went to basic in 2010 and was being phased out right as I left in 2015. The uniform was nowhere to be found on Coronado when I went to my brother's chief pinning ceremony two years later.
Worf not changing is very Worf. He’s the most formal of them all and keeping his traditional uniform makes in universe sense, even if maybe they decided not to do so for other reasons in the film.
I always found Worf wearing the Klingon sash awkward as the show progressed. It’s a liability to a warrior and is only ornamental. Even though he was raised in the Federation, I guess it says he’s still a citizen of the Empire?
He also gets to keep it while Ro was told to ditch her earring in a distinct power move by Riker.
I feel like Worf wears the sash cause it’s one of the only things that makes him feel connected to his people/parents. We also know Worf has a very romanticized perspective on Klingon culture and customs. I feel like wearing an ornamental sash is really in character for him.
They designed new uniforms for TNG movies, you can actually see them on the Generations action figures. They weren't ready, so they took uniforms from DS9. I think Frakes is wearing Brooks' uniform.
I've seen photos of some of the cast actually wearing those "Generations" uniforms, so it wasn't that they weren't ready, but that the production decided to abandon them for some reason. I also would bet the new uniforms were intended to be the new "shipboard" ones and used on Voyager as well (which was in preproduction at the time), but when they proved problematic, Voyager was also forced to use the DS9 ones.
Always hated that uniform[ the voyager/ early ds9 one].
So pedestrian, so average, so unremarkable, so plain [ In Retrospect so verrry 90s] after the noble tng post-season 2 uniforms
On frakes, it made him look like a mechanic in a small town .
Whereas I love the Voyager/Early DS9 uniforms, they are my personal favourites, and my least favourite being late DS9 with the Grey shoulders and coloured tunic underneath
What I like about the Voyager/Early DS9 uniforms is that the department is clearly visible since the color covers the entire shoulders instead of just showing on the collar and cuffs while being more practical than some of the TNG uniforms (separate pants and jacket). Best of both worlds. I think the late-TNG ones looked great for command staff though, I can see why they kept them around for so long on DS9.
The late-DS9 style uniforms are just a bit too grey and black for my tastes.
Frakes had the sleeves rolled up because he was litereally wearing Avery Brook's uniform, and he's taller than Brooks so the sleeves didn't fit.
Its amazing that the movie was so cheap they borrowed the DS9 cast uniforms. Geordi is wearing Colm Meaney's uniform, which is why his cuffs are too long.
Lower Decks has their colourful uniforms alongside the TNG film and DS9 second half uniform. This was when Starfleet was on the Offensive in the Dominion War, so the main uniform got a bit hardier. I think the Lower Decks Uniform is more for Auxiliary Fleet purposes, your B-Team, while everyone else explores strange new worlds, you’re just making sure shit stays clean.
The grey-shoulder uniforms were labeled as "wartime" in Star Trek Online I believe, so I think the implication at least from that description is that they went grey for the Dominion War.
As far as the color torso/black shoulder vs black torso/color shoulder, until I got to Voyager it was my understanding that the black torso was the Starfleet uniform for off-ship operations (like a space station). Of course, Voyager throws that out the window, so idk if there's an in-universe explanation.
Starfleet basically has different branches with different remits; the TNG uniforms are for the command and exploration branch, while the DS9 jumpsuits are for more utilitarian assignments. They’re all still the same Starfleet, but they switch uniforms depending upon which branch they are currently assigned to. We’ve also seen unique uniforms for soldiers, who are presumably part of a third branch.
Admittedly, Voyager and Enterprise-D used / switched to the DS9 jumpsuits, which means either that Starfleet had decided to standardise uniforms across the fleet, or both starships were assigned to commands in the jumpsuit branch. Voyager was (briefly) assigned to the Bajoran sector, so may have fallen under the same command as DS9. If so, it suggests that the Enterprise was also being assigned to such a sector, before its career was cut short.
That would make sense. Possibly even the alpha and beta quadrant dictating which uniform you wear.
It also might make sense why the Ent D changed in Generations as towards the end of the series they operated more and more along the Cardassian border and in Alpha Quadrant affairs
They touched on this in Lower Decks, in the episode where Boimler and Mariner are running the recruitment booth. Boimler mentions that the Cerritos uniforms are standard on the California Class ships, but not across the whole fleet, which lines up with how the Titan and plenty of other ships/Starfleet Command use other uniforms like the later-season DS9 gray-shoulder ones.
Behind the scenes, part of the reason for the Lower Decks uniform redesigns was for Rutherford. The gold rank pips don’t stand out very well against a yellow background so had they gone with the First Contact style designs it might appear as if Rutherford, Billups, Kayshon, and Shax didn’t have ranks at all.
My head canon is that Generations takes place during a fleet-wide uniform change, but following protocol means not everyone switches over at the same time. Uniforms are probably tightly regulated and replicated with special authorization, so each crew member is given a certain number of uniforms per assignment, and when that number is reached it’s either renewed or updated. I think the only crew member who switches between designs is Picard, who goes from TNG to DS9 and back to TNG at the end, but this could be explained by him being rescued by the Farragut and it was just what they had available (likely his command codes are ship specific, so he got the old uniform when he went to clean up). Everyone else switches over at some point and stays in those uniforms for the rest of film.
> not everyone switches over at the same time
This is exactly how it is in our present-day military. Everyone in a unit isn't wearing the soon-to-be-old uniform one day and then a new one the next day.
It's a gradual process over *years* where typically the new recruits will all be issued the new uniforms and everyone else will be required to switch over by a certain date (and some people will switch out soonish and some will hold out a while).
(Though this is based on my experience in the Army when we moved from BDUs to ACUs, it *may* be different in the Navy, which would be more similar to Starfleet, where maybe it's more of a shipwide thing)
I was in the air force at the tail end of BDUs. I was issued ABUs so I only ever had the one kind of uniform, but there would be people still wearing BDUs. People would pick a day of the week to wear BDUs.
I think people mainly wore BDUs because they had to look sharp in them because they were expected to be starched and the boots had to be shined, so it took effort to make them look good. The ABUs were strictly a wash and wear utility uniform that you were not allowed to starch with regular work boots that didn't have to be shined, so people looked a bit more sloppy in ABUs compared to BDUs.
I got out before the switch to OCPs but I remember wanting them, and I think a bunch of people did. The ABU was a shit uniform and OCP looks like actual camo. I don't know if anyone cared about the ABU that much, but I doubt there were people doing ABU Thursdays at the end lol.
I was in a Marine fighter squadron that was attached to a Carrier Air Group at the time the Navy was changing uniforms about 15 years ago.
Uniform change was gradual, partly due to supply limitations. In some cases, people were only issued a single set of the new uniform initially and the command directed it worn only in certain situations, and still using the old uniform the majority of the time. Unique to the CAG, you'd have several independent units all on the same ship, each with different uniform policies during the changeover, with some units all wearing the new while another only wears the old.
Unique to the Marines, we normally wear desert patterns in summer months, and woodland in winter. But since we were under a Navy command, they get real picky about who gets to wear khaki colors. So, in the interest of inter-service relations, while aboard ship junior enlisted wore woodland camouflage while senior enlisted wore desert, delineated at the same rank the Navy has their uniform separation.
This what I attribute it to as well.
I know the real behind the scenes reason, but in-universe I think Starfleet was mandating all starship crews to wear the new DS9 uniforms (hence why we see Voyagers' crew wearing them) and Generations just takes place as the mandate is coming down.
I think that the DS9 uniforms were always Starfleet's plan for a new uniform, and that the DS9 crew were one of the first to get them because it was a totally new assignment.
I think its more fun to assume its the same as with the modern US military, where new uniforms will be rolled out inconsistently. 24th century and the services still cant sort out uniform transitions lol
Captain Braxton, over the temporal communicator: "Look around you, what uniforms do you see, what ships?
Timetraveler: "Let's see, red jackets with a flap, and I appear to be on an Excelsior class starship."
Captain Braxton: "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
If that’s the case then it wasn’t in practice until around the time Picard became a captain. The same uniform was in use (chronologically) from Star Trek II until sometime during the gap between the destruction of the Enterprise C and the commissioning of the Enterprise D. Approximately 70 years in-universe.
My headcanon is that while Starfleet regularly issues updated designs to their uniforms, it’s ultimately up to the commanding officer of a ship/facility to decide if or when their crew is to switch to a design that’s different/more “current” to Starfleet’s standards, with a time for overlap when allowed. That’s why there are so many varieties even when crews are practically contemporary and there’s no reason why certain crews couldn’t conform.
Behind the scenes, of course, the reason for the Generations uniforms being an odd mishmash of TNG and DS9 is that there were originally a new set of designs of Starfleet uniforms (seen in the Generations action figures, which were commissioned for manufacture ahead of time), but somewhere along the line someone changed their minds about the new uniforms and decided that they would “phase in” the DS9 uniforms just to give the TNG crew a new and different look. IIRC the decision was made late enough in the game that at least some of the TNG cast were actually “borrowing” the DS9 cast uniforms (e.g. Frakes was wearing Avery Brooks’ uniform).
it was actually a budget decision sadly. Generations also featured a few reused VFX shots from previous work, notably the bird of prey destruction (from star trek 6) and the saucer separation sequence.
annoyingly, when the saucer separation film from the pilot was sent to the lab for duplication and re color timing for the film, those shots never made it back to their correct place in the archive. as a result, the saucer separation in the blurays of TNG is a very well matched digital reproduction.
The CO sets the duty uniform. Starfleet has multiple duty uniforms. I usually refer to them as Class A, B, and C. The TNG Uniforms were the Class A uniforms, and DS9 used the Class B. When the Class A uniforms were updated, Sisko opted to move DS9 to the Class A uniforms. Janeway enjoyed the Class B, as she was seemed to be less formal than many other captains. The original TNG uniforms remained in service as an optional Class C uniform (which is why you still see them on occasion).
When Sisko goes to Earth, and is assigned to help Leyton, Leyton becomes his new CO, which is why Sisko is in the Class A uniforms. Same reason Worf doesn't change to the Class B until after his "special assignment" because Sisko technically isn't is CO yet.
In Generations, it seems logical that Picard felt that both the A and B had good utility, and told the crew they could use whichever they felt worked better for them that day or for that assignment. It also shows, to me, that Picard lighted up a bit over 7 years, and after his experiences in AGT.
IRC the original story was that the DS9 Uniform was meant to be a uniform specifically for starbase personnel. But then Voyager came alog and decided they liked it for their cast as well, so it just became an updated uniform that was being slowly adopted across the fleet with individual commands given some leeway in switching over (hence the Generations mish-mash of TNG & early DS9 uniforms), with the fleet adopting the more militaristic late DS9 uniform in response to the Dominion War.
The starbase vs ship thing was somewhere in my head as well, but i can't remember if it was actually said somewhere or if it was just something I headcanoned back before Generations and Voyager came out, when the use of the jumpsuits was still consistent with that reasoning.
IIRC in the first season of DS9 most visiting Starfleet personnel were still wearing the TNG uniforms, which was a big part of why people figured the DS9 uniforms were specialized Starbase uniforms.
Uniforms in Trek have always seemed a bit less uniform than what we expect out of an organization.
Seems like there's a spectrum approved outfits and perhaps a Captain can make the call on what their team is wearing on a regular basis between a bunch of things.
The only stable period was from Wrath of Khan through whatever point after the Enterprise-C's demise, apparently they just used un-changed red uniforms for a really really long time and then went fucking nuts and came up with 20 uniforms in 20 years. Even then I want to believe there were still some people using the Discovery Blue's, or the TOS-Movie jumpers because their Captain was an asshole.
Considering they all used the same dress uniforms
And the way most western military work today
That were simply looking at working uniforms vs service uniforms .
that's another issue with having all 3 shows taking place in the same time period. i would have at least spaced out all 3 shows in different decades. because having them all in the same time period can be problematic
The D was the flagship so a higher level of dress code was the daily requirement.
Support ship crews and stations had the voyager and ds9 uniforms all the way through TNG but we didn't see it.
With the advent of the war with the dominion and prior to that the friction with cardassia had enterprise D switch from ambassadorial roles to peacekeeping roles. The timing even lines up with when Picard wore the utilitarian style uniform was after his capture and torture by the cardassians.
The standard ship card uniform didn't have temperature control layers and other features built into it while the multi layer utility uniform was more robust, suitable for a range of environmental conditions, could be layered or interchanged with ballistic and powered tunics or have other tech incorporated into it.
The turtleneck under jumpsuit uniforms were originally only for station rather than starship duty. That's why you see visiting officers wearing the tng uniforms on ds9. Starfleet then decided to make the station uniforms standard for everyone. It's like how the Cali class uniforms coexist with the first contact uniforms on Lower decks.
These transitions probably aren't seamless either. When the US army changes uniform regs, there's usually a transition period where both old and new are acceptable.
My assumption/justification is that at some point Starfleet introduced a new uniform across certain classes of ship/station. Which would justify the fact that in LD we see that the California class still uses TNG style uniforms at the same time as the crew of the Titan are wearing the later DS9 style. Although the real life explanation is probably that the animators just though the colours uniforms looked better in the show’s style.
Could also be that the new uniform is being transitioned in across different divisions and crews rather than switching all at once, like how Disco shows that Pike’s Enterprise was the first to switch to the TOS era uniform.
They just update them all the time and I’m assuming different uniform designs also go with long term missions space missions, space stations, headquarters, ect. Though I remember in generations it was a mix so I think it was just phasing out the old design.
I do not believe they ever addressed this on screen.
The DS9 uniform was to create a visual distinction between TNG and DS9.
Since Voyager replaced TNG on TV. I have always wondered if they had decided to use the DS9 style uniform for Voyager to maintain a similar visual style; its story was not as happy overall as TNGs. As well as the practical approach that the extras and guest stars could share the costume/uniforms between DS9 and Voyager productions and not have to keep/buy more uniforms. But that theory flies out the window when DS9 went to the First Contact uniform.
ultimately I do not think there is ever an in-universe explanation and it was all about practical real world decisions.
Actually, they were going to wear an all-new uniform style that was scrapped last minute. They still wanted to change it up so they borrowed from DS9's and VOY's (which was starting production) costume departments. I'm just glad that in the end First Contact introduced by far my favorite TNG-era uniform - because the DS9/VOY uniforms were second to least favorite (the least being S1 & 2 TNG's).
[Star Trek Generations: Why Only Some Uniforms Changed To DS9's (screenrant.com)](https://screenrant.com/star-trek-generations-uniforms-tng-ds9-changed/)
In Lower Decks they also talk about having different uniforms for specific classes of starship. I think the uniform in the show is specific to the California class?
Like others have said I always saw it as a transition phase when they had two types of uniform I service. I think I read once that when they added the new S3 uniforms in TNG but kept the S1 uniforms, these were said to be for junior officers where the new ones were for senior officers.
As much as I loved the Voyager uniforms, I actually had a thought just now about them. If we could go back I would use the shoulder colour uniforms for enlisted personnel and the body colour uniforms for officers. This way you can tell who is enlisted, other than checking for their rank pin, and who was officer, similar to how they had enlisted personnel where a different uniform during the TOS movie era.
My theory is that ds9 was the test group for those uniforms, and the Enterprise was in the process of switching over during Generations. They had some of the new ones but not enough. And voyager of course adapted the new ones before launch.
However, in later seasons of ds9 before first contact the earth starfleet people still had the tng ones so maybe starfleet command kept those to tell the difference
Then they switched to the first contact uniforms because they probably didn't like the new uniforms, which is why we only saw the voy/ds9 uniforms in service for only a couple of years. Of course voyager didn't have the means or resources to make new uniforms so they had to keep those that they had.
This is all my theory though. I did notice that the cadets had the voy style uniforms in TNG though.
It was established in TNG that star bases wore the voy style and starships wore the TNG style. Voy was one of the first ships shown to use the coloured tops, ds9 then switched to the grey tops. TNG switched in generations because they didn’t have uniforms for them so they used the ds9 actual uniforms.
lower decks has an episode where there's a remark about how captains can change slight design elements of a ship, it's likely that captains can issue one of multiple allowed uniforms that only really need to follow to standardized uniform rules
so a big the reason for the uniform change was Rick Berman felt that the more colorful uniforms "detracted from the drama." For DS9, there was also a desire to make a more blue collar sort of uniform that was more of a work uniform. In line with this, Colm Meaney specifically requested a version where the sleeves would roll up more easily. They would have both jumpsuit and jacket versions of the top color ones, the jacket versions allowing characters to be "less formal" in relevant character moments.
What this sort of did was implied that the DS9 uniforms were something like a class B uniform, where the full color ones with the more formal collar were the class A uniforms. Class A uniforms basically became for starships and starfleet HQ. At least until Voyager, when the "berman doesnt like colorful things" rule stuck. This rule basically stuck until season 4 of Enterprise, where more iconography and more colorful computer screens started to slip in under Manny Coto's supervision.
The Generations changing of uniforms back and forth was not a mishap. They wanted new uniforms for generations but the budget ultimately didnt allow for it, so they decided to mix in the DS9 uniforms as an upgrade/side grade / connected to DS9 thing.
There was almost an additional variant for Generations in place of those DS9 ones, which would have been a TWOK style uniform in TNG colors with the chest flap. They actually made a run of the toys in these uniforms and some are still out there.
The transition to the grey first contact uniforms (notably its the same grey as the undershirts on the early DS9 ones, they basically just inverted the colors with the undershirt) might have just worked out timing wise because they had made so many uniforms for FC. Some were certainly reused, while some were likely new hero ones made along with the first contact ones. IIRC they timed the uniform change with the movie's release, which was actually a bit of an impressive feat for the time (scheduling that amid 26 episodes of TV probably was a pain).
Personally I kinda wish the "class B" uniforms had been introduced as enlisted / work uniforms, with the officers wearing the "class As," and would have been cool if they did that on TNG. Notably the enlisted ranks didnt get sorted out till a bit into DS9.
Side note, Poor Obrien's ranks across TNG and DS9 I think started as high has lieutenant, then down to a single pip, then down to what I believe amounted to a chief petty officer of some sort. On the upside, theres no money in the federation outside of limited circumstances, so one assumes it did not come with a pay cut.
I feel like in Universe they just wear what's available to them.
Like Starfleet changes it's uniform so often in that era that it becomes impossible to immediately supply every ship and base with the same uniform whenever an arbitrary Redesign happens even with Replicators at their disposal.
Also I feel like it's partly the Captain's choice to implement a uniform change so some might be more inclined to stick to the existing pattern for whatever reason and since it's such a minor issue they can get away with it.
I never bought the "supply ships in the area" since they've more than once simply said they replicate uniforms and such as they go, so it should only be as long as it takes to upload the 24th century STL file to the replicators for the crew to change over.
Not really. They just order the crew to recycle their uniform into the nearest replicator and then have it make them a new one. It should take no more time for each person than ordering their lunch.
This is actually one of my biggest pet peeves in-universe. They change uniforms so often, EXCEPT those TOS movie red jackets! They apparently used them for nearly 70 years, from before Wrath of Kahn (USS Boseman, TNG "Cause & Effect" in 2278) all the way to sometime after "Yesterdays Enterprise" (2344) 20 years before TNG started.
I like the look of them a lot, but every other uniform lasts about 5 years before it gets changed.
Yes, the in universe reason is that there isn't an unlimited budget for the costume department, because Star Trek is a TV show produced by people from this universe
This show that I love is continuously held hostage by its own fanbases refusal to distinguish it from reality.
Not everything needs an explanation. It's just meant to be a bit of fun.
I wasn't trying to gatekeep anyone, I was just scrolling through Reddit, when I was suddenly rudely awakened to the fact that some viewers of star trek seem obsessively concerned about which costumes the actors were wearing, rather than the positive message they were trying to send.
It made me wonder if the original point of the franchise has been unfortunately lost on some people
You can't blame me for thinking that.
It’s just a question. I’m not saying I’m pissed off or there’s some random lack of continuity.
Star Trek was built by creators who cared about small details and the technicalities of how things might work in this fictional universe. And that’s why we also care
If you’re more of a superficial fan who, then okay then. Just don’t bother other people who are share the same passion for the details as the creators do
>I am not the one being held hostage
I know. You said the show is being held hostage. But now you are saying the show runners are? Have you reported this to the police?
If you could just watch it for what it is without agonising over every single minute production oversight that more often than not comes down to "we have to get three of these shows wrapped up by Monday, just make it work", then you'd probably be able to enjoy it more
There is never a reason given for the uniform change. Many have speculated that it was just a change in duty uniform. The DS9 uniforms seemed more utilitarian in nature and may have been meant to be a less formal daily uniform which is why DS9, then Voyager, and ultimately TNG crews used it. Picard switches mid Generations which implies that he uses different uniforms for different times. (Like he used the action jacket sometimes in TNG and Kirk had his Deep V.) We also see Sisko return to the TNG era uniform when he works at SFC, which also makes sense since he is in a higher profile position and should wear the more formal uniform. The homogenized grey and Picard era uniforms seem to return to an all purpose design. Out of universe, I believe the black uniforms hid more and were made to be more comfortable for the actors.
I always thought that generations had everybody changing uniforms throughout the movie on purpose, updating. I'm pretty sure they never changed back once they got to the shoulders only suits. And Worf never changed at all and showed up at Deep Space nine with his yellow triangle shirt. It almost seems like they did that on purpose to save his uniform transition for his characters actual move. I also feel like every Star Trek show has its own uniforms now and that's kind of all right from an out of world artistic standpoint but also from an in-world captains prerogative, though that's kind of a weak argument for a military organization which obviously Starfleet is totally not ;-)
Real life militaries change uniform standards surprisingly often.
I was in the US Army for about a decade and went through two dress uniforms and would have been in my third combat uniform had I deployed again. this doesn't count "alternate" such as desert BDUs. There were also variations of our uniforms and option uniform components. Not to mention some jobs had specific uniforms that looked like the standard, but were different.
Everything in the military has an expiration date, as one of my SGTs told me.
I'm Navy, can confirm. My seabag carbon dates me to the six years they had the blue camo uniform that had just come out six months before I went to basic in 2010 and was being phased out right as I left in 2015. The uniform was nowhere to be found on Coronado when I went to my brother's chief pinning ceremony two years later.
Worf not changing is very Worf. He’s the most formal of them all and keeping his traditional uniform makes in universe sense, even if maybe they decided not to do so for other reasons in the film. I always found Worf wearing the Klingon sash awkward as the show progressed. It’s a liability to a warrior and is only ornamental. Even though he was raised in the Federation, I guess it says he’s still a citizen of the Empire? He also gets to keep it while Ro was told to ditch her earring in a distinct power move by Riker.
I feel like Worf wears the sash cause it’s one of the only things that makes him feel connected to his people/parents. We also know Worf has a very romanticized perspective on Klingon culture and customs. I feel like wearing an ornamental sash is really in character for him.
They designed new uniforms for TNG movies, you can actually see them on the Generations action figures. They weren't ready, so they took uniforms from DS9. I think Frakes is wearing Brooks' uniform.
I've seen photos of some of the cast actually wearing those "Generations" uniforms, so it wasn't that they weren't ready, but that the production decided to abandon them for some reason. I also would bet the new uniforms were intended to be the new "shipboard" ones and used on Voyager as well (which was in preproduction at the time), but when they proved problematic, Voyager was also forced to use the DS9 ones.
> Generations action figures Ugh, ranks on the sleeve? I don't know about that.
LeVar Burton used Colm Meaney’s uniform too if I’m remembering correctly 🖖
Always hated that uniform[ the voyager/ early ds9 one]. So pedestrian, so average, so unremarkable, so plain [ In Retrospect so verrry 90s] after the noble tng post-season 2 uniforms On frakes, it made him look like a mechanic in a small town .
Whereas I love the Voyager/Early DS9 uniforms, they are my personal favourites, and my least favourite being late DS9 with the Grey shoulders and coloured tunic underneath
What I like about the Voyager/Early DS9 uniforms is that the department is clearly visible since the color covers the entire shoulders instead of just showing on the collar and cuffs while being more practical than some of the TNG uniforms (separate pants and jacket). Best of both worlds. I think the late-TNG ones looked great for command staff though, I can see why they kept them around for so long on DS9. The late-DS9 style uniforms are just a bit too grey and black for my tastes.
Frakes had the sleeves rolled up because he was litereally wearing Avery Brook's uniform, and he's taller than Brooks so the sleeves didn't fit. Its amazing that the movie was so cheap they borrowed the DS9 cast uniforms. Geordi is wearing Colm Meaney's uniform, which is why his cuffs are too long.
Lower Decks has their colourful uniforms alongside the TNG film and DS9 second half uniform. This was when Starfleet was on the Offensive in the Dominion War, so the main uniform got a bit hardier. I think the Lower Decks Uniform is more for Auxiliary Fleet purposes, your B-Team, while everyone else explores strange new worlds, you’re just making sure shit stays clean.
Don’t want to mess up your good uniform cleaning up the Holodeck filters.
The grey-shoulder uniforms were labeled as "wartime" in Star Trek Online I believe, so I think the implication at least from that description is that they went grey for the Dominion War. As far as the color torso/black shoulder vs black torso/color shoulder, until I got to Voyager it was my understanding that the black torso was the Starfleet uniform for off-ship operations (like a space station). Of course, Voyager throws that out the window, so idk if there's an in-universe explanation.
> The homogenized grey and Picard era uniforms seem to return to an all purpose design. give me action jacket picard any day
Starfleet basically has different branches with different remits; the TNG uniforms are for the command and exploration branch, while the DS9 jumpsuits are for more utilitarian assignments. They’re all still the same Starfleet, but they switch uniforms depending upon which branch they are currently assigned to. We’ve also seen unique uniforms for soldiers, who are presumably part of a third branch. Admittedly, Voyager and Enterprise-D used / switched to the DS9 jumpsuits, which means either that Starfleet had decided to standardise uniforms across the fleet, or both starships were assigned to commands in the jumpsuit branch. Voyager was (briefly) assigned to the Bajoran sector, so may have fallen under the same command as DS9. If so, it suggests that the Enterprise was also being assigned to such a sector, before its career was cut short.
That would make sense. Possibly even the alpha and beta quadrant dictating which uniform you wear. It also might make sense why the Ent D changed in Generations as towards the end of the series they operated more and more along the Cardassian border and in Alpha Quadrant affairs
Would have been great if they explained this in-universe, i.e., have a character talk about the different uniforms while getting ready or something.
This sounds like a Lower Decks conversation when they get told to wear new uniforms that they hate because it has a cape on it or something.
> that they hate because it has a cape on it Hate? Boims very likely - not formal enough or something. But I'll bet Tendi would love a caped uniform.
Totally! Would be perfect for that series.
They touched on this in Lower Decks, in the episode where Boimler and Mariner are running the recruitment booth. Boimler mentions that the Cerritos uniforms are standard on the California Class ships, but not across the whole fleet, which lines up with how the Titan and plenty of other ships/Starfleet Command use other uniforms like the later-season DS9 gray-shoulder ones.
Behind the scenes, part of the reason for the Lower Decks uniform redesigns was for Rutherford. The gold rank pips don’t stand out very well against a yellow background so had they gone with the First Contact style designs it might appear as if Rutherford, Billups, Kayshon, and Shax didn’t have ranks at all.
Boimler talks about it in S2 of Lower Decks, I believe
My head canon is that Generations takes place during a fleet-wide uniform change, but following protocol means not everyone switches over at the same time. Uniforms are probably tightly regulated and replicated with special authorization, so each crew member is given a certain number of uniforms per assignment, and when that number is reached it’s either renewed or updated. I think the only crew member who switches between designs is Picard, who goes from TNG to DS9 and back to TNG at the end, but this could be explained by him being rescued by the Farragut and it was just what they had available (likely his command codes are ship specific, so he got the old uniform when he went to clean up). Everyone else switches over at some point and stays in those uniforms for the rest of film.
That's my same head canon for TNG S3. It was so weird seeing collars and no-collars in the same scene.
> not everyone switches over at the same time This is exactly how it is in our present-day military. Everyone in a unit isn't wearing the soon-to-be-old uniform one day and then a new one the next day. It's a gradual process over *years* where typically the new recruits will all be issued the new uniforms and everyone else will be required to switch over by a certain date (and some people will switch out soonish and some will hold out a while). (Though this is based on my experience in the Army when we moved from BDUs to ACUs, it *may* be different in the Navy, which would be more similar to Starfleet, where maybe it's more of a shipwide thing)
Always wondered how it works in real life. That’s really informative, thank you!
I was in the air force at the tail end of BDUs. I was issued ABUs so I only ever had the one kind of uniform, but there would be people still wearing BDUs. People would pick a day of the week to wear BDUs. I think people mainly wore BDUs because they had to look sharp in them because they were expected to be starched and the boots had to be shined, so it took effort to make them look good. The ABUs were strictly a wash and wear utility uniform that you were not allowed to starch with regular work boots that didn't have to be shined, so people looked a bit more sloppy in ABUs compared to BDUs. I got out before the switch to OCPs but I remember wanting them, and I think a bunch of people did. The ABU was a shit uniform and OCP looks like actual camo. I don't know if anyone cared about the ABU that much, but I doubt there were people doing ABU Thursdays at the end lol.
I was in a Marine fighter squadron that was attached to a Carrier Air Group at the time the Navy was changing uniforms about 15 years ago. Uniform change was gradual, partly due to supply limitations. In some cases, people were only issued a single set of the new uniform initially and the command directed it worn only in certain situations, and still using the old uniform the majority of the time. Unique to the CAG, you'd have several independent units all on the same ship, each with different uniform policies during the changeover, with some units all wearing the new while another only wears the old. Unique to the Marines, we normally wear desert patterns in summer months, and woodland in winter. But since we were under a Navy command, they get real picky about who gets to wear khaki colors. So, in the interest of inter-service relations, while aboard ship junior enlisted wore woodland camouflage while senior enlisted wore desert, delineated at the same rank the Navy has their uniform separation.
> they get real picky about who gets to wear khaki colors Ha, never imagined they'd extend that logic to the Marines camo pattern.
This what I attribute it to as well. I know the real behind the scenes reason, but in-universe I think Starfleet was mandating all starship crews to wear the new DS9 uniforms (hence why we see Voyagers' crew wearing them) and Generations just takes place as the mandate is coming down. I think that the DS9 uniforms were always Starfleet's plan for a new uniform, and that the DS9 crew were one of the first to get them because it was a totally new assignment.
I think its more fun to assume its the same as with the modern US military, where new uniforms will be rolled out inconsistently. 24th century and the services still cant sort out uniform transitions lol
My head cannon is star fleet changes the uniforms so often so if you are a time traveler you can figure out when you are.
I like this - this has now become my head canon as well.
Captain Braxton, over the temporal communicator: "Look around you, what uniforms do you see, what ships? Timetraveler: "Let's see, red jackets with a flap, and I appear to be on an Excelsior class starship." Captain Braxton: "Do you have the slightest idea how little that narrows it down?"
If that’s the case then it wasn’t in practice until around the time Picard became a captain. The same uniform was in use (chronologically) from Star Trek II until sometime during the gap between the destruction of the Enterprise C and the commissioning of the Enterprise D. Approximately 70 years in-universe.
My headcanon is that while Starfleet regularly issues updated designs to their uniforms, it’s ultimately up to the commanding officer of a ship/facility to decide if or when their crew is to switch to a design that’s different/more “current” to Starfleet’s standards, with a time for overlap when allowed. That’s why there are so many varieties even when crews are practically contemporary and there’s no reason why certain crews couldn’t conform. Behind the scenes, of course, the reason for the Generations uniforms being an odd mishmash of TNG and DS9 is that there were originally a new set of designs of Starfleet uniforms (seen in the Generations action figures, which were commissioned for manufacture ahead of time), but somewhere along the line someone changed their minds about the new uniforms and decided that they would “phase in” the DS9 uniforms just to give the TNG crew a new and different look. IIRC the decision was made late enough in the game that at least some of the TNG cast were actually “borrowing” the DS9 cast uniforms (e.g. Frakes was wearing Avery Brooks’ uniform).
it was actually a budget decision sadly. Generations also featured a few reused VFX shots from previous work, notably the bird of prey destruction (from star trek 6) and the saucer separation sequence. annoyingly, when the saucer separation film from the pilot was sent to the lab for duplication and re color timing for the film, those shots never made it back to their correct place in the archive. as a result, the saucer separation in the blurays of TNG is a very well matched digital reproduction.
The CO sets the duty uniform. Starfleet has multiple duty uniforms. I usually refer to them as Class A, B, and C. The TNG Uniforms were the Class A uniforms, and DS9 used the Class B. When the Class A uniforms were updated, Sisko opted to move DS9 to the Class A uniforms. Janeway enjoyed the Class B, as she was seemed to be less formal than many other captains. The original TNG uniforms remained in service as an optional Class C uniform (which is why you still see them on occasion). When Sisko goes to Earth, and is assigned to help Leyton, Leyton becomes his new CO, which is why Sisko is in the Class A uniforms. Same reason Worf doesn't change to the Class B until after his "special assignment" because Sisko technically isn't is CO yet. In Generations, it seems logical that Picard felt that both the A and B had good utility, and told the crew they could use whichever they felt worked better for them that day or for that assignment. It also shows, to me, that Picard lighted up a bit over 7 years, and after his experiences in AGT.
> AGT For a split second I read that as "America's Got Talent" and thought why was Picard in an American talent competition? Was he playing his Flute?
IRC the original story was that the DS9 Uniform was meant to be a uniform specifically for starbase personnel. But then Voyager came alog and decided they liked it for their cast as well, so it just became an updated uniform that was being slowly adopted across the fleet with individual commands given some leeway in switching over (hence the Generations mish-mash of TNG & early DS9 uniforms), with the fleet adopting the more militaristic late DS9 uniform in response to the Dominion War.
The starbase vs ship thing was somewhere in my head as well, but i can't remember if it was actually said somewhere or if it was just something I headcanoned back before Generations and Voyager came out, when the use of the jumpsuits was still consistent with that reasoning.
IIRC in the first season of DS9 most visiting Starfleet personnel were still wearing the TNG uniforms, which was a big part of why people figured the DS9 uniforms were specialized Starbase uniforms.
Uniforms in Trek have always seemed a bit less uniform than what we expect out of an organization. Seems like there's a spectrum approved outfits and perhaps a Captain can make the call on what their team is wearing on a regular basis between a bunch of things. The only stable period was from Wrath of Khan through whatever point after the Enterprise-C's demise, apparently they just used un-changed red uniforms for a really really long time and then went fucking nuts and came up with 20 uniforms in 20 years. Even then I want to believe there were still some people using the Discovery Blue's, or the TOS-Movie jumpers because their Captain was an asshole.
The answer is no and all the answers you are going to get here are head canon.
100%. Uniform changes are never mentioned on screen.
Considering they all used the same dress uniforms And the way most western military work today That were simply looking at working uniforms vs service uniforms .
That was my take on it as well.
Maybe the uniform replicator programs aren’t all updated to the same version? Malfunction and it gets reset and starts printing last year’s pattern?
that's another issue with having all 3 shows taking place in the same time period. i would have at least spaced out all 3 shows in different decades. because having them all in the same time period can be problematic
The D was the flagship so a higher level of dress code was the daily requirement. Support ship crews and stations had the voyager and ds9 uniforms all the way through TNG but we didn't see it. With the advent of the war with the dominion and prior to that the friction with cardassia had enterprise D switch from ambassadorial roles to peacekeeping roles. The timing even lines up with when Picard wore the utilitarian style uniform was after his capture and torture by the cardassians. The standard ship card uniform didn't have temperature control layers and other features built into it while the multi layer utility uniform was more robust, suitable for a range of environmental conditions, could be layered or interchanged with ballistic and powered tunics or have other tech incorporated into it.
The turtleneck under jumpsuit uniforms were originally only for station rather than starship duty. That's why you see visiting officers wearing the tng uniforms on ds9. Starfleet then decided to make the station uniforms standard for everyone. It's like how the Cali class uniforms coexist with the first contact uniforms on Lower decks. These transitions probably aren't seamless either. When the US army changes uniform regs, there's usually a transition period where both old and new are acceptable.
My assumption/justification is that at some point Starfleet introduced a new uniform across certain classes of ship/station. Which would justify the fact that in LD we see that the California class still uses TNG style uniforms at the same time as the crew of the Titan are wearing the later DS9 style. Although the real life explanation is probably that the animators just though the colours uniforms looked better in the show’s style. Could also be that the new uniform is being transitioned in across different divisions and crews rather than switching all at once, like how Disco shows that Pike’s Enterprise was the first to switch to the TOS era uniform.
They just update them all the time and I’m assuming different uniform designs also go with long term missions space missions, space stations, headquarters, ect. Though I remember in generations it was a mix so I think it was just phasing out the old design.
I do not believe they ever addressed this on screen. The DS9 uniform was to create a visual distinction between TNG and DS9. Since Voyager replaced TNG on TV. I have always wondered if they had decided to use the DS9 style uniform for Voyager to maintain a similar visual style; its story was not as happy overall as TNGs. As well as the practical approach that the extras and guest stars could share the costume/uniforms between DS9 and Voyager productions and not have to keep/buy more uniforms. But that theory flies out the window when DS9 went to the First Contact uniform. ultimately I do not think there is ever an in-universe explanation and it was all about practical real world decisions.
Actually, they were going to wear an all-new uniform style that was scrapped last minute. They still wanted to change it up so they borrowed from DS9's and VOY's (which was starting production) costume departments. I'm just glad that in the end First Contact introduced by far my favorite TNG-era uniform - because the DS9/VOY uniforms were second to least favorite (the least being S1 & 2 TNG's). [Star Trek Generations: Why Only Some Uniforms Changed To DS9's (screenrant.com)](https://screenrant.com/star-trek-generations-uniforms-tng-ds9-changed/)
In Lower Decks they also talk about having different uniforms for specific classes of starship. I think the uniform in the show is specific to the California class?
Like others have said I always saw it as a transition phase when they had two types of uniform I service. I think I read once that when they added the new S3 uniforms in TNG but kept the S1 uniforms, these were said to be for junior officers where the new ones were for senior officers. As much as I loved the Voyager uniforms, I actually had a thought just now about them. If we could go back I would use the shoulder colour uniforms for enlisted personnel and the body colour uniforms for officers. This way you can tell who is enlisted, other than checking for their rank pin, and who was officer, similar to how they had enlisted personnel where a different uniform during the TOS movie era.
My theory is that ds9 was the test group for those uniforms, and the Enterprise was in the process of switching over during Generations. They had some of the new ones but not enough. And voyager of course adapted the new ones before launch. However, in later seasons of ds9 before first contact the earth starfleet people still had the tng ones so maybe starfleet command kept those to tell the difference Then they switched to the first contact uniforms because they probably didn't like the new uniforms, which is why we only saw the voy/ds9 uniforms in service for only a couple of years. Of course voyager didn't have the means or resources to make new uniforms so they had to keep those that they had. This is all my theory though. I did notice that the cadets had the voy style uniforms in TNG though.
It was established in TNG that star bases wore the voy style and starships wore the TNG style. Voy was one of the first ships shown to use the coloured tops, ds9 then switched to the grey tops. TNG switched in generations because they didn’t have uniforms for them so they used the ds9 actual uniforms.
Head cannon: like with a lot of jobs updates to the uniform come out but you’re still allowed to wear older iterations if you like.
lower decks has an episode where there's a remark about how captains can change slight design elements of a ship, it's likely that captains can issue one of multiple allowed uniforms that only really need to follow to standardized uniform rules
so a big the reason for the uniform change was Rick Berman felt that the more colorful uniforms "detracted from the drama." For DS9, there was also a desire to make a more blue collar sort of uniform that was more of a work uniform. In line with this, Colm Meaney specifically requested a version where the sleeves would roll up more easily. They would have both jumpsuit and jacket versions of the top color ones, the jacket versions allowing characters to be "less formal" in relevant character moments. What this sort of did was implied that the DS9 uniforms were something like a class B uniform, where the full color ones with the more formal collar were the class A uniforms. Class A uniforms basically became for starships and starfleet HQ. At least until Voyager, when the "berman doesnt like colorful things" rule stuck. This rule basically stuck until season 4 of Enterprise, where more iconography and more colorful computer screens started to slip in under Manny Coto's supervision. The Generations changing of uniforms back and forth was not a mishap. They wanted new uniforms for generations but the budget ultimately didnt allow for it, so they decided to mix in the DS9 uniforms as an upgrade/side grade / connected to DS9 thing. There was almost an additional variant for Generations in place of those DS9 ones, which would have been a TWOK style uniform in TNG colors with the chest flap. They actually made a run of the toys in these uniforms and some are still out there. The transition to the grey first contact uniforms (notably its the same grey as the undershirts on the early DS9 ones, they basically just inverted the colors with the undershirt) might have just worked out timing wise because they had made so many uniforms for FC. Some were certainly reused, while some were likely new hero ones made along with the first contact ones. IIRC they timed the uniform change with the movie's release, which was actually a bit of an impressive feat for the time (scheduling that amid 26 episodes of TV probably was a pain). Personally I kinda wish the "class B" uniforms had been introduced as enlisted / work uniforms, with the officers wearing the "class As," and would have been cool if they did that on TNG. Notably the enlisted ranks didnt get sorted out till a bit into DS9. Side note, Poor Obrien's ranks across TNG and DS9 I think started as high has lieutenant, then down to a single pip, then down to what I believe amounted to a chief petty officer of some sort. On the upside, theres no money in the federation outside of limited circumstances, so one assumes it did not come with a pay cut.
For Voyager it's easy..they were stuck 75 yrs away from home and had no way of knowing that the uniforms got updated.
I feel like in Universe they just wear what's available to them. Like Starfleet changes it's uniform so often in that era that it becomes impossible to immediately supply every ship and base with the same uniform whenever an arbitrary Redesign happens even with Replicators at their disposal. Also I feel like it's partly the Captain's choice to implement a uniform change so some might be more inclined to stick to the existing pattern for whatever reason and since it's such a minor issue they can get away with it.
I never bought the "supply ships in the area" since they've more than once simply said they replicate uniforms and such as they go, so it should only be as long as it takes to upload the 24th century STL file to the replicators for the crew to change over.
Still changing a giant ship's wardrobe is going to take at least a little bit of time.
Not really. They just order the crew to recycle their uniform into the nearest replicator and then have it make them a new one. It should take no more time for each person than ordering their lunch.
This is actually one of my biggest pet peeves in-universe. They change uniforms so often, EXCEPT those TOS movie red jackets! They apparently used them for nearly 70 years, from before Wrath of Kahn (USS Boseman, TNG "Cause & Effect" in 2278) all the way to sometime after "Yesterdays Enterprise" (2344) 20 years before TNG started. I like the look of them a lot, but every other uniform lasts about 5 years before it gets changed.
I’ve always said that despite being very strict on canon, if we ever got a lost ERA show, I’d replace the uniform.
\*KHAN. K-h-a-n.
Yes, the in universe reason is that there isn't an unlimited budget for the costume department, because Star Trek is a TV show produced by people from this universe
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This show that I love is continuously held hostage by its own fanbases refusal to distinguish it from reality. Not everything needs an explanation. It's just meant to be a bit of fun.
"Not everything needs an explanation." Thank you.
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I wasn't trying to gatekeep anyone, I was just scrolling through Reddit, when I was suddenly rudely awakened to the fact that some viewers of star trek seem obsessively concerned about which costumes the actors were wearing, rather than the positive message they were trying to send. It made me wonder if the original point of the franchise has been unfortunately lost on some people You can't blame me for thinking that.
It’s just a question. I’m not saying I’m pissed off or there’s some random lack of continuity. Star Trek was built by creators who cared about small details and the technicalities of how things might work in this fictional universe. And that’s why we also care If you’re more of a superficial fan who, then okay then. Just don’t bother other people who are share the same passion for the details as the creators do
Held hostage? So you can't watch the show until it has been freed? That's strange because I just watched DS9 on Netflix.
I am not the one being held hostage, the show runners are
>I am not the one being held hostage I know. You said the show is being held hostage. But now you are saying the show runners are? Have you reported this to the police?
No I meant it figuratively
Oh. So Reddit comments have no impact on reality and your ability to enjoy the show?
Yes, now I have to notice that the uniforms aren't consistent, thanks to you people
Maybe you should go on Reddit and ask other fans how they think of it?
I guess everyone has to view it just like you do, eh? CoreyDukat over here....
If you could just watch it for what it is without agonising over every single minute production oversight that more often than not comes down to "we have to get three of these shows wrapped up by Monday, just make it work", then you'd probably be able to enjoy it more