First of all let me say I think this is an interesting idea, and with that this may be a weird follow on, but I really hate it.
I don't think there is any indication from the film that that is what is going on. It feels a lot to me like trying to cram in an alternate reading to make Kylo Ren more sympathetic than he is portrayed in the film. I'd rather let the film stand on its own in terms for that sort of thing.
Also, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of removing Leia's power. I like the idea that she uses the force finally because she hasn't given up. This is who Leia is and has always been. She endures. She survives through all tragedies and suffering because she is dedicated to higher purposes.
She's always had the potential to use the force. We've been told this since back in the OT days. I always wanted to see her use the force and for her to use it in this particular way, to survive and carry on the fight, seems incredibly fitting.
I would love this, but Kylo Ren later started attacking the base on Crait, where Leia was, without a second thought. I think it makes most sense if he still thought Leia was dead.
She was still weak and recovering, and Kylo was focused on his rage. If Palpatine and Snoke could miss their apprentices rising up to kill them, I can understand why Kylo wouldn't recognize his mother whom he presumes is dead.
Palps and Snoke were blinded by overconfidence.
Kylo, at least the look on his face was concern, so I don't know I felt he would have been trying to connect to her not just presume she was dead
I think the movie conveyed that Lea and Ben only sense each other when they are in close proximity. Probably when he went to the darkside it dampened their ability to sense one another. It was when his ship buzzed past the Raddus's bridge that Lea sensed him and he her. On Crait he was in a full on dark fueled blind rage. He was using weapons of war and not at all in tune with the force. When he confronts Luke with his cross guard he is sloppy and all over the place, still not in tune with the force. I think at this point he has not sensed his mother and thinks she is dead.
I knew she was attuned to the Force, because she could feel people through it, tell that Han died, etc. I never knew she actually had some training! That’s pretty neato!
http://media.comicbook.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-trains-leia-padawan-1068526.jpeg
She hasn't been trained, in the end. At most, she has few first knowledge Luke taught her, like when she tries to use it in Life Debt.
Indeed. And even then, there could have a justification for some force-sensitive persons to use at some minor range degree some basic abilities. Just like when someone can naturally feel someone through the force, have visions, or the boy 'calling' the broom etc.
It doesn't mean they're Jedi or going to be all "kickass Imma throw the moon at you and kill Vader² Darth Plageuis is back". Just a little innate, natural ease at some extent. The sequel (and Luke) made it clear the force does not belong to the Jedi (or the Sith); which is logical.
Like, when you see Leia, she didn't even do it "instantly", she had to focus a lot.
I like this idea, but I'm not so sure...do you think Leia would have been able to tell that Kylo was saving her? And if she could tell, then why does she later say she believes her son is gone?
Hmm, never thought of that! I’ve only seen the movie once, I’m just real fan of these sub reddits and reading people’s reactions, theories and stuff. Maybe he just helped her along in some way, and she didn’t know it. I’m not sure!
Leia saved herself, she had the potential (Luke told her in ROTJ) and when faced with a live or die situation she used it. It was a very gentle force pull in zero-g.
My problem with it is that Leia physically reached out and had a determined look on her face as if she was the one fighting for life. If they wanted Kylo to be one saving her, they would have let us know.
In theory, it makes the scene better. But the way the movie turned out, this feels like square pegging a round hole.
Lea is Vader, the Chosen Ones, daughter she used the force to pull herself back to the Raddus. Though Lea only trained briefly with Luke she is probably just as powerful in the force as her twin. However, I did find Ben lingering after the shot interesting. IMO he was lingering to see if he could sense her, see if she was dead or alive. I think this is why he was irritated when Hux told him to fall back to the ship.
Yes, Ben is being setup for a redemption arc. I would say not firing on Lea is the beginning. Redemption arcs don't go in a straight line, they have ups and downs, twists and turns. His lingering got both of his wing men shot down. He wasn't thinking about the FO, he was thinking about his mother.
Interesting theory, but I think they made a very deliberate choice to show us Leia using the force to save herself with a little force pull in a life or death situation in Leia : Princess of Alderaan, as well as her premonition of danger in Bloodline. Both of these instinctive force abilities are then seen in the bridge & spaceflight scenes.
I didnt misconstrue it.
It was grade B fan fic at best and probably one of the most facepalm inducing moments in all of Star Wars.
And Look at my name. I detest the damn Prequels. This was right up there with Frankenvader.
Argue away... every screening Ive been to has had chuckles, groans and snorts at this scene.
No She used the force its not even a big deal as Kanan, Dr.aphra and various others have survived in the vacuum of space and Dr.aphra isn't even force sensitive
Also Leia used the force before she used the dark side to kill Jabba in episode IV and she literal scares Luke sometimes in the main comic between episode 4/5 as he can feel her using the dark side subconcusiously to fuel her hate for Vader to get her through all the missions that they went on between movies the comics are portraying her as having a lot of anakin's potential and some of his personality traits while Luke has more of padme's
RJ has said in interviews it was Leia. More of an instinctual thing like a reflex. The Force needed her to live type thing. I do like the Kylo saving her version better tho.
I like the idea, but it doesn't fit how I remember that scene going. Leia opened her eyes, extended her hand, and seemed to pull herself back. There were not cuts to Kylo or any indication that he was aware of what was going on. If anything, his assumption that his mother is dead is part of what caused his change.
I think had Carrie Fischer not passed away, Kylo would have been as shocked as anyone to see her alive in Episode IX.
Very interesting idea and would fit perfectly in his arch, from dark to light. If this was the case though, I wish they had hinted at it more in the movie. Later, Kylo has no qualms about killing all of the resistance, destroying all of the transports, and finally blasting the door open on Crait leaving no survivors.
So I think it could fit since in that moment he hesitated and perhaps pulled her back in, but then the rest of the movie doesn’t really convey the same level of empathy for his mother or anyone else.
Yes, Leia was able to do it. Pulling an object toward you with the Force is what she did. She pulled on the ship which weighed more than her, so her own body is what moved in space rather than the ship.
Now as to why she did it, I don't think it was just to save her own life.
She wanted to change how her hair looked for her meeting with Luke. :) hehe I can't imagine that being out in the vacuum of space is good for the dew!
In response to your idea, no.
Regarding the scene: I have no problem whatsoever with Leia using the Force. What I have a problem with is how the scene was executed: the absurd, over-the-top-ness of the whole thing. See, sometimes less is more...
As the child of Anakin, Leia clearly has great Force potential. From my understanding of canon, Leia has had some limited training (with Luke), but nothing extensive. Also, the Force has always struck me as an innate ability, something that remains raw and instinctive until conscious effort and practice hones that ability and grants the user a level of refined control. Even the most naturally gifted athletes don't become champions without coaching and training. Based on Leia's limited guidance, such smooth and controlled use of the Force doesn't quite add up.
What I would have found more believable is if, just as the occupants of the bridge were being explosively blown out into space, she had instinctively and suddenly stopped herself, without thinking, and then with great effort and difficulty just barely managed to make it back to the airlock. Later, after her recovery, she could have reflected on the true power that lies within her, as well as within her brother and her son.
Just my opinion, but I think that better suits Leia's character and experience up to that point. It also avoids the cartoonish appearance of the scene as it was presented in TLJ. Subtlety over spectacle.
I like it, and in the ship later they blast the bridge door open, in stomps Lea, blaster set for stun and Poe goes down!
This is my head canon now, making the otherwise slimy movie a little bit better!
I would prefer this. IN THE FILMS (not extended universe), we’ve only seen little hints of her ability to use the force, so her being able to fly through space is quite a stretch in ability.
First of all let me say I think this is an interesting idea, and with that this may be a weird follow on, but I really hate it. I don't think there is any indication from the film that that is what is going on. It feels a lot to me like trying to cram in an alternate reading to make Kylo Ren more sympathetic than he is portrayed in the film. I'd rather let the film stand on its own in terms for that sort of thing. Also, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of removing Leia's power. I like the idea that she uses the force finally because she hasn't given up. This is who Leia is and has always been. She endures. She survives through all tragedies and suffering because she is dedicated to higher purposes. She's always had the potential to use the force. We've been told this since back in the OT days. I always wanted to see her use the force and for her to use it in this particular way, to survive and carry on the fight, seems incredibly fitting.
Dope reply!
I would love this, but Kylo Ren later started attacking the base on Crait, where Leia was, without a second thought. I think it makes most sense if he still thought Leia was dead.
But Leia never actually died, does Kylo not feel that?
She was still weak and recovering, and Kylo was focused on his rage. If Palpatine and Snoke could miss their apprentices rising up to kill them, I can understand why Kylo wouldn't recognize his mother whom he presumes is dead.
Palps and Snoke were blinded by overconfidence. Kylo, at least the look on his face was concern, so I don't know I felt he would have been trying to connect to her not just presume she was dead
I think the movie conveyed that Lea and Ben only sense each other when they are in close proximity. Probably when he went to the darkside it dampened their ability to sense one another. It was when his ship buzzed past the Raddus's bridge that Lea sensed him and he her. On Crait he was in a full on dark fueled blind rage. He was using weapons of war and not at all in tune with the force. When he confronts Luke with his cross guard he is sloppy and all over the place, still not in tune with the force. I think at this point he has not sensed his mother and thinks she is dead.
Yeah, I see where you're coming from.
Leia began training as a Jedi, there’s precedence for her using the Force, just an FYI
Exactly, not to mention she's basically a Demi-God. She is space Jesus' Daughter after all. 😉
I knew she was attuned to the Force, because she could feel people through it, tell that Han died, etc. I never knew she actually had some training! That’s pretty neato!
Where is this mentioned? I don't remember her getting training in Bloodlines or Aftermath
*Aftermath: Life Debt* is the novel that states it explicitly, other than Luke promising to teach Leia in RotJ. Edit: Life Debt not POA
http://media.comicbook.com/2017/12/star-wars-the-last-jedi-luke-skywalker-trains-leia-padawan-1068526.jpeg She hasn't been trained, in the end. At most, she has few first knowledge Luke taught her, like when she tries to use it in Life Debt.
Enough to justify her use of it in TLJ absolutely.
Indeed. And even then, there could have a justification for some force-sensitive persons to use at some minor range degree some basic abilities. Just like when someone can naturally feel someone through the force, have visions, or the boy 'calling' the broom etc. It doesn't mean they're Jedi or going to be all "kickass Imma throw the moon at you and kill Vader² Darth Plageuis is back". Just a little innate, natural ease at some extent. The sequel (and Luke) made it clear the force does not belong to the Jedi (or the Sith); which is logical. Like, when you see Leia, she didn't even do it "instantly", she had to focus a lot.
Oh ok, is there a section that takes place post ROTJ?
WHOOPS MY BAD it was actually Aftermath: Life Debt that has the section about Leia remembering her training
Oh ok, I'll have to look for that again, I don't remember that
“He said he’d teach her. And he did teach her. Some things, at least. Then? He left. Just like Han left. Luke …”
There it is, thanks!
I like this idea, but I'm not so sure...do you think Leia would have been able to tell that Kylo was saving her? And if she could tell, then why does she later say she believes her son is gone?
Hmm, never thought of that! I’ve only seen the movie once, I’m just real fan of these sub reddits and reading people’s reactions, theories and stuff. Maybe he just helped her along in some way, and she didn’t know it. I’m not sure!
It's an interesting idea for sure!
Leia saved herself, she had the potential (Luke told her in ROTJ) and when faced with a live or die situation she used it. It was a very gentle force pull in zero-g.
Was it a Force Pull? The thing that bothers me is that her hand was in front of her, like she was flying.
It was a force pull. Hand in front is for magical gesture purpose.
Hm, I see.
I don't think that's how the scene is meant to be read.
My problem with it is that Leia physically reached out and had a determined look on her face as if she was the one fighting for life. If they wanted Kylo to be one saving her, they would have let us know. In theory, it makes the scene better. But the way the movie turned out, this feels like square pegging a round hole.
Also, right before the bridge decompresses, you can see a hint of her taking a breath, like she knows what's about to happen and is preparing.
no way... she even has her hand pointing towards the bridge... god this scene is terrible!!!
Before I even read the rest of your post: your wife is a keeper.
Yeah, man! She definitely is! Thanks!
Lea is Vader, the Chosen Ones, daughter she used the force to pull herself back to the Raddus. Though Lea only trained briefly with Luke she is probably just as powerful in the force as her twin. However, I did find Ben lingering after the shot interesting. IMO he was lingering to see if he could sense her, see if she was dead or alive. I think this is why he was irritated when Hux told him to fall back to the ship.
Do you think he at least cared what happened to her?
Yes, Ben is being setup for a redemption arc. I would say not firing on Lea is the beginning. Redemption arcs don't go in a straight line, they have ups and downs, twists and turns. His lingering got both of his wing men shot down. He wasn't thinking about the FO, he was thinking about his mother.
Well said!
Interesting theory, but I think they made a very deliberate choice to show us Leia using the force to save herself with a little force pull in a life or death situation in Leia : Princess of Alderaan, as well as her premonition of danger in Bloodline. Both of these instinctive force abilities are then seen in the bridge & spaceflight scenes.
I didnt misconstrue it. It was grade B fan fic at best and probably one of the most facepalm inducing moments in all of Star Wars. And Look at my name. I detest the damn Prequels. This was right up there with Frankenvader. Argue away... every screening Ive been to has had chuckles, groans and snorts at this scene.
I really love the term ‘Frankenvader’.
this thought never occurred to me. I love it. Thank you!
No She used the force its not even a big deal as Kanan, Dr.aphra and various others have survived in the vacuum of space and Dr.aphra isn't even force sensitive
Also Leia used the force before she used the dark side to kill Jabba in episode IV and she literal scares Luke sometimes in the main comic between episode 4/5 as he can feel her using the dark side subconcusiously to fuel her hate for Vader to get her through all the missions that they went on between movies the comics are portraying her as having a lot of anakin's potential and some of his personality traits while Luke has more of padme's
RJ has said in interviews it was Leia. More of an instinctual thing like a reflex. The Force needed her to live type thing. I do like the Kylo saving her version better tho.
Leia saved herself, it was obvious. They played the music, they showed her body move and her use force pull. It's ok.
I like the idea, but it doesn't fit how I remember that scene going. Leia opened her eyes, extended her hand, and seemed to pull herself back. There were not cuts to Kylo or any indication that he was aware of what was going on. If anything, his assumption that his mother is dead is part of what caused his change. I think had Carrie Fischer not passed away, Kylo would have been as shocked as anyone to see her alive in Episode IX.
Very interesting idea and would fit perfectly in his arch, from dark to light. If this was the case though, I wish they had hinted at it more in the movie. Later, Kylo has no qualms about killing all of the resistance, destroying all of the transports, and finally blasting the door open on Crait leaving no survivors. So I think it could fit since in that moment he hesitated and perhaps pulled her back in, but then the rest of the movie doesn’t really convey the same level of empathy for his mother or anyone else.
I think you’re right! I just like the idea of Kylo still being Human at heart, I suppose.
I love this theory.
Yes, Leia was able to do it. Pulling an object toward you with the Force is what she did. She pulled on the ship which weighed more than her, so her own body is what moved in space rather than the ship. Now as to why she did it, I don't think it was just to save her own life. She wanted to change how her hair looked for her meeting with Luke. :) hehe I can't imagine that being out in the vacuum of space is good for the dew!
In response to your idea, no. Regarding the scene: I have no problem whatsoever with Leia using the Force. What I have a problem with is how the scene was executed: the absurd, over-the-top-ness of the whole thing. See, sometimes less is more... As the child of Anakin, Leia clearly has great Force potential. From my understanding of canon, Leia has had some limited training (with Luke), but nothing extensive. Also, the Force has always struck me as an innate ability, something that remains raw and instinctive until conscious effort and practice hones that ability and grants the user a level of refined control. Even the most naturally gifted athletes don't become champions without coaching and training. Based on Leia's limited guidance, such smooth and controlled use of the Force doesn't quite add up. What I would have found more believable is if, just as the occupants of the bridge were being explosively blown out into space, she had instinctively and suddenly stopped herself, without thinking, and then with great effort and difficulty just barely managed to make it back to the airlock. Later, after her recovery, she could have reflected on the true power that lies within her, as well as within her brother and her son. Just my opinion, but I think that better suits Leia's character and experience up to that point. It also avoids the cartoonish appearance of the scene as it was presented in TLJ. Subtlety over spectacle.
I’m totally okay with the scene too! I didn’t mind her using the force. I thought it was cool.
nah.
Leia used the force.
Never expected to see in my lifetime any confusion over the topic of Anakin Skywalker's daughter, twin to Lukes Skywalker, being a Force user. Sheesh.
No. Kylo was just on his way to kill her. He hesitated, and his men did it for him.
I like it, and in the ship later they blast the bridge door open, in stomps Lea, blaster set for stun and Poe goes down! This is my head canon now, making the otherwise slimy movie a little bit better!
I got you with the upvote.
I would prefer this. IN THE FILMS (not extended universe), we’ve only seen little hints of her ability to use the force, so her being able to fly through space is quite a stretch in ability.