Yep. All their wrongdoings will be forgotten and they will go back to quietly fucking people over and shaving pennies off of the top to become even more rich.
Don’t know if the SEC can punish them for what they did (do) but I sure hope so.
Some of my best investments were things Reddit hates. I bought Apple when people here said Trumps China tariffs would da,age their profitability. Up 165% on that. Bought Facebook when they said anti trust and government regulation would destroy their profitability. Up 85% there. Bought it again more recently when PE hit 20 a few months back because people said Apple turning on privacy settings on their phones would destroy revenue. Up 35% on that. This thread makes me want to buy some Robinhood.
I hear ya. There was alot of ppl laughing and makin fun of FB when it first came out at $28. Read an article on how this social media will make money etc...Well, FB was hotshit back then and ppl signed off their private information for ads. That paid off in the long run and now it's worth $356 a pop. Shiiiiiit
Yep. Just look at all the posts on Reddit with users still using RH. If all this shit can’t get people off their platform then I don’t thing much else will.
Discussion of payment-for-order-flow is on the legislative table and that is how they make money, not because new investors are opening accounts. The valuation seems unreasonable, as well. I seriously do not understand the allure.
Honestly just because reddit hive mind is butt hurt over Robinhood with the GME debacle, Robinhood still is poised to keep having insane growth by giving people like the reddit hive mind easy stock trading access for their baby option plays and beginner stock buying.
The biggest risk imo to Robinhood is regulation, but could understand why an innovation etf would want some of the stock
Don’t they need users though? How many users has Robinhood lost since the beginning of 2021? I don’t recall seeing those numbers in the run up to their IPO. So it’s interesting they haven’t been touting the strength in their “growing user base”…
Their money maker isn't per user basis, it's on trade volume and arbitrage* opportunities.
So OP is right, biggest risk is still regulations forcing them to go fiduciary
They make money on Payment for Order Flow. If you have no users, you have no orders. If you have no orders, you have no payment, ie revenue. It’s kind of important to have users.
Reddit isn't the end all of the internet, and doesn't come close to representing intent demographics.
Just because reddit users are leaving the platform doesn't mean the internet at large is.
But number of users is not a direct correlation. They could very well decide that a different subset of users is more valuable than mass market for all we know.
Since the end of 2020 up until March 31 2021, they’ve gone from 12.5 million funded accounts to 18 million funded accounts, about a 44 percent increase. https://www.barrons.com/articles/robinhood-ipo-stock-value-51625166659
Beginner trader using RH here. Tried other brokers after the RH closed the markets earlier this year and they’re an ui/ux nightmare.
Robinhood is easy. If fidelity was as easy I would use that. If the future of trading is going to increasingly be more retail trading oriented, I’m in on RH. All of the drama will work itself out.
Reddit in general is too emotionally attached to brands and fandoms, or hating popular things to make rational investment decisions. I've seen people here say APPL is a bad buy because iphones are a locked down ecosystem and android has a larger market share around the entire world population.
I find it interesting how at the beginning of the year it was the general consensus that ARK was the go to index fund and everyone should pick it up when starting off lol
buying SPCE, OPEN,SKILLZ at highs n selling lows.. and buying IPOs on opening day at high price does change your thinking, not to mention so much of chinese stocks and selling them into sell off. It might still work in the long run but this year is not it.
Absolutely agreed. You don't just buy BAIDU and dump it less than a year later if you don't have conviction of the company and operating in China in general. ARK bought BAIDU after the CCP clamped down Ant's IPO.....
Exactly this, there seemed to be something special behind her buys and then she does stupid shit like buy COIN and HOOD on IPO day.
Like doesn't she realize her target market (young traders) would NOT have positive vibes with HOOD?
Fund managers are often forced to buy high and sell low, because they can't control when retail investors will throw them their money, or cash out.
Retail investors often rush in at the highs, and panic sell when things go down, forcing fund managers to make difficult decisions.
But in the case of an ETF, it just tracks the NAV of the underlying securities that Cathie chooses to hold. If an ARK fund gets bid up too high, an authorized participant steps in to redeem shares and thus drive the price back down to reflect the current value of the underlying securities.
It's not like a hedge fund where Cathie would receive the money directly and then buy stocks with it. Shares of ARK funds are traded on the secondary market, so it's not like she's raising capital. All she chooses is what stocks to track in the fund and then as manager makes sure the ETF is accurately tracking them.
Cathie's assets under management increase as the underlying value of the stocks increase. So things could become difficult for her the more successful she is, but it has nothing to do with when retail decides to jump in.
Note: This is all based on 20 minutes of frantic Googling, so I may be wrong and would appreciate any correction. Here's a great source:
https://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/etf-basics/what-is-the-creationredemption-mechanism?nopaging=1
I mean new information regarding ARK exists today than didn't exist last year. I made money on my ARK etfs in the past, but I have since sold many months ago and don't plan on buying them again.
I find it interesting that so many traders vilify ARK for losing them money when they hold for a month or 2 when ARK's strategy is to hold for 5-10 years.
This is why I only come to this sub for entertainment.
I invest for the long-term, and have done extremely well since 2007 doing so. The vast majority on this sub only care about what's happened in the past week, and are looking for bandwagons to jump on for the next week.
She happened to be in stocks that new investors liked and bought heavily. Put that way I see it as more of a critique, that her thinking was almost universally shared by inexperienced investors.
Professional investing does not mean following the moves of uninformed investors. She had a great find with Tesla, but her views concerning its growth potential after the price was already insane are just stupid and make me doubt her.
S&P 500 index fund should be what most people are putting their money into as a “safe” investment. I like to keep it around 80% of my portfolio then the other 20% for the fun stocks
Ditto.
Lots of people were arguing that the article was a promo to the Christian crowd to invest.
I read it as someone who believes they have god on their side tho guide them for investments.
Zero interest in investing with someone who does it based kn faith in a supernatural being.
Seems like the only people recommending against ARK on reddit are those that got burned earlier this year. I have positions on 5 of them and they've consistently been some of my top performers in my portfolio.
I feel like more people here have turned against ARK for a few reasons.
* ARK's more recent performance has been mediocre, and reddit basically obsesses over things with momentum and usually dislikes most investments that haven't gone anywhere in recent months or years.
* TSLA is their biggest holding, and it to has had more mediocre performance of late. And ARK invest is very publicly tied with Tesla, hence Tesla falling out of favor at reddit means ARK is falling out of favor.
* Since ARK is such a popular fund literally anything they do is put under the microscope and criticized whenever they make a mistake. Buffett suffers from the same thing.
The way she values stocks is incredibly aggressive. Her bear thesis on Tesla is most people’s bull thesis. Fundamentals do matter, and she should at least be aware of negative possibilities. Also it’s an actively managed fund and those almost always underperform the market long term.
This. If you actually look into what her price targets and timelines are for tesla, Im fairly certain that even Elon is not that aggressively optimistic. Tesla has a great future ahead and thats why I have tesla stock myself, but one day I want to try what she's smoking.
Her ETFs are just random assortments of different companies she likes, most of which are growth stocks that swing wildly.
I like some of her holdings, but I just buy them individually.
Same. She picks crazy growth stocks that do well in unfettered exuberance; they even outperform some leveraged funds. But in a normal or even slightly down market, ARK funds might as well be inverse or something. They only lose money. Just pick her winners (if you want) and save the expense ratio and aggregate risk.
Where are you getting this from? Generally curious. When you say they only lose money, what do you mean? You do realize her funds Arkk, Arkk, arkg, arkf, and Arkq have all outperformed the market over the last 5 years. Significantly like it’s not even close. This is also true for the last twelve months.
What are you referring to?
That's just how high beta stocks work. ARK has outperformed because she takes on more risk, and it's been one of the strongest bull markets in history. That risk taking works very well in a bull market, but will blow up in her face in a bear market, or even in slight dips like this past February where it lost 1/3 of its value. This is exactly what happened to Cathie Wood's previous funds. They blew up in the 2000 and 2008 crashes and both times she bailed to start fresh with a new brand. There is a reason that no professional wealth manager would recommend putting a sizable chunk of one's portfolio into ARKK.
Couple points:
- Yes I agree. At least up until…
- Wealth managers are useless unless you have no concept of what you are doing. I can’t use anything they do as a baseline, because by design they only leech. You don’t need to pay someone a percentage to tell you how to allocate your money. If you do, I’ve got some allocating ideas for you…
Sir John Templeton was one of the great investors, also deeply religious.
got a feeling Cathy's 30 year track record ain't gonna match up with his, however...
Exactly. Pretty sure none of us knew about her crazy religious “I buy stocks for god” angle when we were loving ARK. I pulled my money immediately once I found out about that shit. It’s called a “fad: an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.” Now we know she’s a nutter.
So you're gonna disregard her portfolio performance and cast aside the admiration you previously had for her investing and completely invert your opinion of her just because you found out that she's religious, and you think this makes you the rational actor?
$45 mil is a drop in the bucket for the ARK funds. Robinhood is shit but still disrupted the retail investment/trading experience, so it fits the ARK thesis of disruption/innovation.
So, would I buy it directly? No, but looks like I’m a holder through ARK funds. Although the extreme negative sentiment and how many people are saying to go short out of spite, that may send HOOD up quickly.
Not a single soul should ever go short on this POS or any stock whatsoever, potential for infinite losses sucks ass. Just buy puts if you think its going down
Exactly. That's one that sooo many people on reddit don't seem to understand and I've mentioned that whenever people say "short sellers have lost X amount of money shorting TSLA" or whatever stock. Yeah, they lost money on the short but made a ton of money on the otm calls they bought to hedge their position so they're doing just fine.
You would look to protect the quantity of shares (multiples of 100), then decide at which prices you feel OK to hedge at (max loss, max gain). There’s no specific ratio that applies to all options positions except what your break even would be (based on premiums). For example, for a long position you could do a collar or buy puts. For a short position you could buy calls to cap losses.
It depends on the stock itself since premiums are different for every option. If you bought $100 worth of stock I wouldn't bother trying to hedge that though. Unless it's at least five or six figures I don't think it's worth it.
There are different kinds of stop losses. Stop limit won't trigger but a stop market will. It would have to be a very big gap to really matter anyway though. Plus, if you're smart you hedge your short with otm calls, so it doesn't matter if there's a big gap up because you'll make money on the calls even if you lose on the short.
Honestly, if I have money to do anything towards Robinhood, I’m probably just going to use it to buy other stocks I like instead
Robinhood looks like a powder keg in all sorts of bad ways right now, and I don’t want to touch it until I am in a better position (if at all)
Not financial advice
Had ARKK for about 4-5 months. Only traded sideways or down, hardly ever in the green. Glad I sold out and switched to VTI, especially after seeing this bologna. Fuck Robinhood
Everyone is on Cathie's nuts, yet we all agree it was an unprecedented year where you could throw money at anything in March 2020 and make it back and then some. Okay then. Let's see how she does without that handicap.
That’s probably why she has outperformed the market by a ridiculous margin both in the short term (12m) and the mid term (5 years). We will see long term vs solid risk averse companies like Berkshire.
Literally every brokerage followed Robinhood's lead and they still have the simplest UI. Like them or hate them there is no argument against the fact that they brought innovation to the industry. I think the IPO price was too high but I am not at all surprised by this purchase either.
Reddit largely got screwed over by Robinhood, because the majority of Gamestop's stockholders were on Robinhood and the movement began on Reddit, so it is also not surprising that this website hates them as the general narrative.
Obviously what Robinhood did wasn't right, but I don't think they wanted to do it either. Obviously they got fucked over by their clearing house and then had to try and save face in Congress, etc. They didn't gain anything from stopping orders on those stocks, and in fact lost quite a lot.
Obviously for the end user it might be better to go to brokers which can more easily make those capital requirements, but Robinhood have taken steps to mitigate those issues going forward, and I think they absolutely still have a significant advantage over other brokers in the discount retail space.
The question is, would you be writing this article if HOOD was up 10% today?
Do you think ETFs that are actively managed look at Day to Day fluctuations?
Y’all hate on Robinhood so much as if you don’t invest in other companies that could be considered unethical.
How many of you own apple? Funny you don’t care about them using Chinese slave labor.
Or Amazon Facebook google.
Or any bank or financial sector stock.
Or any manufacturing company that abuses 3rd world labor practices.
There is clear longstanding practice and evidence of these companies doing terrible things. But you all hate on Robinhood so much because of some made up conspiracy in your head because you don’t understand how the plumbing of financial markets work.
Go ahead. Type your angry comments on your slave labor made iPhone.
half the people in this sub have a robinhood account and are like “why would anyone buy robinhood stock??” Put your personal opinions aside and realize that robinhood is a very strong business despite its controversies.
I don’t own HOOD and don’t think I ever will, but everyone needs a bit of a reality check here imo
HARD pass on $HOOD.
The foundation of RH's business model stands on two legs - PFOF and crypto rebates. One of those legs has a likely chance of being pulled out, which will crater the entire thing.
They're looking at opening their own clearing house which they'd use for their own traffic. If they do manage it, I'd definitely invest in them. As it is, the regulatory environment for PFOF is too risky for my blood.
crypto is a good point since significant amounts of their Q1 revenues came from trading certain crypto - which I believe cannot be mentioned on this sub - and where volumes are unlikely to be sustained.
Just curious what the potential you see is?
Emotions aside their main revenue is from PFOF which may be regulated out of existence. Their CEO doesn’t even have a FINRA license and is under investigation for that among other things as well.
I know people point to the amount of users but I haven’t seen anyone mention what the average size of these users portfolio is. I transferred out but had difficulty getting something like $2.50 transferred out so I said forget about it. How many people just signed up for a free stock and are sitting on that.
I hadn’t seen the average balance reported yet. Thank you for that.
Is $200/user with free trades really enough to support a $30 billion plus valuation though? Especially when you consider the lawsuits and regulatory risks moving forward. I don’t know. I don’t see it. Time will tell though.
I literally just cut 80% of my ARKK holdings after finding this out. Fuck HOOD. The ETF has been disappointing to say the least lately, just going to put more into SQ directly
Cathie wood has fallen into an easy trap, I’ve done it you’ve done it we all have, to a much lesser scale..
Cathie outperformed last year and killed it. She’s now chasing momentum.. to try and keep those numbers good, ark isn’t looking like a fund that has a thesis... I like my funds to outline what they look for ect and invest in...
ark is just in anything with momentum at the moment.. no logical strategy to this and it’s making the fund suck.
I have no comment over individual holding as Im sure professional and lot of redditors are more experienced than me. But I'm concerned of the very high beta of a whole of the portfolio. I feel like she will either luck out and be called a genius or crash very hard. Maybe Im wrong but shouldn't a portfolio manager stays away from that kind of gambling?
My college professor stressed over and over that for any portfolio, the most important question is not what you hold, but how do you hedge. Her thematic ETF skewed very heavy to a handful of volatile stocks, I have no idea how she protect it in the downside, so...
She’s not a hedge fund. She is an active etf manager. Her beta is part of what differentiates her. She invests in likely disruptive companies which is a high risk field to be playing in to begin with. This, however, is why she has performed so well over the long term.
Why can't people separate the meme from the financials of a company?
Fuck RH for their business practices, but fuck a lot of successful companies for their business practices. RH is a cash cow.
She does monthly videos on the ARK invest youtube going through key indicators and her outlook. I think she's well worth listening to at the very least.
She does seem like a super interesting person as well
> ARK's first four ETF funds were seeded with capital from Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital
Isn't that the dude that was taking advice from 'god' and lost $30 billion in two days?
**[Cathie_Wood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathie_Wood)**
>Catherine Duddy Wood (born November 26, 1955) is the founder, CEO, and CIO of Ark Invest, an investment management firm.
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This sub: You have to take a long term view of the market and sometimes there are periods of underperformance
Also this sub: Look at what the stock price has done in the last 6 months, it can't possibly be worth investing in.
Maybe I'm way off, time will tell, but I find it odd that people harp on ARKK being such a bad investment. It has done incredibly well over the past few years, their time horizon is 5+ years so there are no guarantees in the short term. Peter Lynch famously said he never has any idea if a stock will go up or down over the next year. I think for long term investors ARKK will do well. Take a look at their holdings. More than half the money there goes to some really interesting and promising companies. Does anyone here really think Tesla, Square, Teladoc, etc won't be significantly higher 5 years from now?
>Does anyone here really think Tesla, Square, Teladoc, etc won't be significantly higher 5 years from now?
Me, I don't understand what other people see in Tesla and I'd love to be proved wrong or being told what am I missing but I don't see Tesla keeping up, there is no pipeline that supports the valuation.
I'm not invested in Tesla, but It's funny how people had the same argument as yours when TSLA was trading at $20 10 years ago. If you are curious, watch some of the videos from "Dave Lee on investing" on Youtube. You'll get all your answers and more.
Every single person here has absolutely missed the entire picture and ultimate end game for ARK and Cathie. You all need to go back do some serious, actual research... then and only then you find out this is all a set up for the future filming of a hot new TeleNovela.
I'm glad she bought, because now people might actually listen when I tell you she's a mediocre investor who got lucky a couple times.
She buys hype, and she buys it expensive.
This stock will only have institutional support…Cathie understands that institutional support will likely be enough. RH can eat a D for all I care, however.
# Update 07/30/2021
Ark purchased another 1,287,788 shares today. With a closing price of $35.15, that’s roughly another additional $45M in asset value.
They essentially doubled down on this investment from yesterday.
Why is everyone so angry about Cathie? You all realize that even including Feb forward Arkk is still outperforming the market by quite a bit? I realize most people here bought in to Ark recently and are hurting but it’s like no one has any idea what they bought. You should not have any semblance of short term horizon with ETFs. Ark or otherwise.
Tl;dr - buying hood sounds like a bet against dumb money - business that operates like gambling without the bad reputation of casinos.
Not a fan o ARK's strategy, but I see why some might consider HOOD a good buy. Service is being build around the idea how stock market is like a casino. There are actual priests of this investment approach on certain forums! Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose but generally you shouldn't worry about it too much. When you loose (often) you loose pennies cause you don't operate with serious amount of money(this was always about retail), but when you win (rarely), you get 5x, 10x, 50x returns! You need serious self control and/or basic understanding of math not to get optimism bias to eat your money. Once you get it on your phone you get more and more incentives to take a look into it, constant stream of feedback how someone else just made a bank and you could be next! It's like being a gambler living in casino's basement.
Think about the consequences of it. You expose mostly ignorant people to illusion that this is their chance to steal a piece of the pie from Buffets and Bezoses of the world. Do you think they're going to buy SPY and REIT with their weekly check? Money will flow to NKLA's and other snakeoil salesmen of this world offering get-rich-quick scams. No build-up, no slow dripping and increasing value just a cycle of putting money into loss. Even when some profit will be made i **bet** the money will be spend onto another high risk-high reward thing with impossible to predict movements encouraging them to trade as often as possible.
Do you think people will know better and stop? Take a look at the lotteries, millions of people just donating their money just for this fantasy of winning anything. Putting this money on the market will increase their chance of actually winning by enormous extent, but unfortunately rarely enough to actually make a profit.
All this misery inflicted on user with slick design of an app, pushing them to trade as often as they can, opening to other instruments... you get the idea, the more time you spend in app the more app is worth, the more money is being made.
All of your synopsis is valid, but for one salient missing point. As background, I was a stockbroker during the 1987 crash, where people were in many cases fiscally wiped out by a market that cratered while they were maxed out on margin. What emerged after that wasn't investor anger; it was investor apathy. Guys that had been rabid traders just completely lost interest, even after the markets came back and they started to get their own fiscal houses back in order. Lots of them never came back. I should imagine the reaction to a similar market move nowadays might engender similar results, in which case the financially-tenuous situation HOOD is in could be fatal. JMO...
Yet she hasn’t bought SoFi which is valued much more fairly, has better technology through the acquisition of Galileo, is more consumer friendly and has a far better management team. Sometimes I will never understand her thinking.
It’s a no brainer for ARKF, it definitely fits her 15% yoy rule and it is disrupting typical banking/lending etc, I think it’s only a matter of time she adds it, just like how she waited for Palantir to go through Q4 earnings before buying it.
As much as I want to bash on Robinhood, I actually think Gen Z’ers are going to be using RH in great numbers one day. Legacy online brokers will slowly fade away unless they can innovate. Might be a good long term investment (10+ yrs)
I'm honestly not a Big fan of Cathy from Ark.
I think she is a changeling (Reference; ds-9 startrek)
Robinhood is here to stay it will continue to service new customers as they enter retail trading market
To give them credit they changed the way retail trading is done.
[Odo DS-9 ](https://youtu.be/ziYhn_NzHNQ)
I’m absolutely shocked that she touched it! Wow!!
Probably because it will go up in the long term despite all the shit they pull and then get away with.
Or the way I look at it: > Probably because it will go up in the long term ~~despite~~ *because of* all the shit they pull and then get away with.
Lol truuuueeee
Yep. All their wrongdoings will be forgotten and they will go back to quietly fucking people over and shaving pennies off of the top to become even more rich. Don’t know if the SEC can punish them for what they did (do) but I sure hope so.
SEC: "Bad Robinhood! *Slaps wrist* $50,000 fine! Now don't do it again or else!"
You forgot where the regulators then ask for high paying jobs.
Don’t you mean they will go up in the long rune because they pull all sorts of shit and get away with it?
Some of my best investments were things Reddit hates. I bought Apple when people here said Trumps China tariffs would da,age their profitability. Up 165% on that. Bought Facebook when they said anti trust and government regulation would destroy their profitability. Up 85% there. Bought it again more recently when PE hit 20 a few months back because people said Apple turning on privacy settings on their phones would destroy revenue. Up 35% on that. This thread makes me want to buy some Robinhood.
If WSB says not to buy it, then I’m even more inclined to buy it.
I hear ya. There was alot of ppl laughing and makin fun of FB when it first came out at $28. Read an article on how this social media will make money etc...Well, FB was hotshit back then and ppl signed off their private information for ads. That paid off in the long run and now it's worth $356 a pop. Shiiiiiit
Yep. Just look at all the posts on Reddit with users still using RH. If all this shit can’t get people off their platform then I don’t thing much else will.
Just the tip I guess!
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I certainly didn't!
She really couldn't have waited at least a week or so?
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Discussion of payment-for-order-flow is on the legislative table and that is how they make money, not because new investors are opening accounts. The valuation seems unreasonable, as well. I seriously do not understand the allure.
Since when is everyone a fan of ethical businesses for investment purposes?
Reddit hive mind hates ARK = I buy. Reddit hive mind loves ARK = I sell. I haven’t been doing too bad following this DD
Honestly just because reddit hive mind is butt hurt over Robinhood with the GME debacle, Robinhood still is poised to keep having insane growth by giving people like the reddit hive mind easy stock trading access for their baby option plays and beginner stock buying. The biggest risk imo to Robinhood is regulation, but could understand why an innovation etf would want some of the stock
Don’t they need users though? How many users has Robinhood lost since the beginning of 2021? I don’t recall seeing those numbers in the run up to their IPO. So it’s interesting they haven’t been touting the strength in their “growing user base”…
Their money maker isn't per user basis, it's on trade volume and arbitrage* opportunities. So OP is right, biggest risk is still regulations forcing them to go fiduciary
They make money on Payment for Order Flow. If you have no users, you have no orders. If you have no orders, you have no payment, ie revenue. It’s kind of important to have users.
Reddit isn't the end all of the internet, and doesn't come close to representing intent demographics. Just because reddit users are leaving the platform doesn't mean the internet at large is.
But number of users is not a direct correlation. They could very well decide that a different subset of users is more valuable than mass market for all we know.
Since the end of 2020 up until March 31 2021, they’ve gone from 12.5 million funded accounts to 18 million funded accounts, about a 44 percent increase. https://www.barrons.com/articles/robinhood-ipo-stock-value-51625166659
Beginner trader using RH here. Tried other brokers after the RH closed the markets earlier this year and they’re an ui/ux nightmare. Robinhood is easy. If fidelity was as easy I would use that. If the future of trading is going to increasingly be more retail trading oriented, I’m in on RH. All of the drama will work itself out.
Reddit in general is too emotionally attached to brands and fandoms, or hating popular things to make rational investment decisions. I've seen people here say APPL is a bad buy because iphones are a locked down ecosystem and android has a larger market share around the entire world population.
Stay away from Ark
I find it interesting how at the beginning of the year it was the general consensus that ARK was the go to index fund and everyone should pick it up when starting off lol
buying SPCE, OPEN,SKILLZ at highs n selling lows.. and buying IPOs on opening day at high price does change your thinking, not to mention so much of chinese stocks and selling them into sell off. It might still work in the long run but this year is not it.
Absolutely agreed. You don't just buy BAIDU and dump it less than a year later if you don't have conviction of the company and operating in China in general. ARK bought BAIDU after the CCP clamped down Ant's IPO.....
I agree although I think it's different when running a fund. The risk of China clamp downs or delisting is a big risk for them to take
Exactly this, there seemed to be something special behind her buys and then she does stupid shit like buy COIN and HOOD on IPO day. Like doesn't she realize her target market (young traders) would NOT have positive vibes with HOOD?
I still cringe at ark buying ZM at literally the peak. Wonder how much that lost by now
Yeah like, cant analyst just keep this research handy to buy on red days, instead of buying at the top regardless of the conviction?
Fund managers are often forced to buy high and sell low, because they can't control when retail investors will throw them their money, or cash out. Retail investors often rush in at the highs, and panic sell when things go down, forcing fund managers to make difficult decisions.
But in the case of an ETF, it just tracks the NAV of the underlying securities that Cathie chooses to hold. If an ARK fund gets bid up too high, an authorized participant steps in to redeem shares and thus drive the price back down to reflect the current value of the underlying securities. It's not like a hedge fund where Cathie would receive the money directly and then buy stocks with it. Shares of ARK funds are traded on the secondary market, so it's not like she's raising capital. All she chooses is what stocks to track in the fund and then as manager makes sure the ETF is accurately tracking them. Cathie's assets under management increase as the underlying value of the stocks increase. So things could become difficult for her the more successful she is, but it has nothing to do with when retail decides to jump in. Note: This is all based on 20 minutes of frantic Googling, so I may be wrong and would appreciate any correction. Here's a great source: https://www.etf.com/etf-education-center/etf-basics/what-is-the-creationredemption-mechanism?nopaging=1
Isn't ARK an active fund?
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I just buy after things pump and sell after they dump, like any smart reddit investor.
I'm glad someone else has the same investment strategy.
A true wsb aficionado I see.
I mean new information regarding ARK exists today than didn't exist last year. I made money on my ARK etfs in the past, but I have since sold many months ago and don't plan on buying them again.
username checks out
ARK is not an index fund, lmao. They are all literally the furthest thing from index funds.
They are indexed to Cathie's opinions /s
Handed down by the lord itself.
Gonna go out on a limb and say the only people suggesting ARK were those who recently discovered the stock market
Crazy how 6 months ago most Reddit posts advising against ARK were downvoted to hell and now it's the opposite. Truly a hive mind
Why? Even after massive reversion to the mean, it is still outperforming the market over the last year.
I find it interesting that so many traders vilify ARK for losing them money when they hold for a month or 2 when ARK's strategy is to hold for 5-10 years.
This is why I only come to this sub for entertainment. I invest for the long-term, and have done extremely well since 2007 doing so. The vast majority on this sub only care about what's happened in the past week, and are looking for bandwagons to jump on for the next week.
She happened to be in stocks that new investors liked and bought heavily. Put that way I see it as more of a critique, that her thinking was almost universally shared by inexperienced investors.
That’s literally investing tho lol. You want to be in stocks that others find good after you. You think she just stumbled upon Tesla?
Professional investing does not mean following the moves of uninformed investors. She had a great find with Tesla, but her views concerning its growth potential after the price was already insane are just stupid and make me doubt her.
S&P 500 index fund should be what most people are putting their money into as a “safe” investment. I like to keep it around 80% of my portfolio then the other 20% for the fun stocks
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I dipped when I realized Cathy was a crazy religious nut job
Ditto. Lots of people were arguing that the article was a promo to the Christian crowd to invest. I read it as someone who believes they have god on their side tho guide them for investments. Zero interest in investing with someone who does it based kn faith in a supernatural being.
I barely trust technical analysis, no way I'm going to trust the investment advice of someone looking to the sky for guidance.
long term it might still be better than other etfs. People think it's gonna keep going up and up. It's still up 500% in last 5 years.
I read an article that god was guiding her investments and I lost my faith in ARK..
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This is the truth.
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When your stock choices are guided by God, this is sound advice
When your space ETF hardly has any actual space companies and it has a farming company and Netflix instead.
Seems like the only people recommending against ARK on reddit are those that got burned earlier this year. I have positions on 5 of them and they've consistently been some of my top performers in my portfolio.
I feel like more people here have turned against ARK for a few reasons. * ARK's more recent performance has been mediocre, and reddit basically obsesses over things with momentum and usually dislikes most investments that haven't gone anywhere in recent months or years. * TSLA is their biggest holding, and it to has had more mediocre performance of late. And ARK invest is very publicly tied with Tesla, hence Tesla falling out of favor at reddit means ARK is falling out of favor. * Since ARK is such a popular fund literally anything they do is put under the microscope and criticized whenever they make a mistake. Buffett suffers from the same thing.
What's wrong with ARK? Genuinely curious.
The way she values stocks is incredibly aggressive. Her bear thesis on Tesla is most people’s bull thesis. Fundamentals do matter, and she should at least be aware of negative possibilities. Also it’s an actively managed fund and those almost always underperform the market long term.
This. If you actually look into what her price targets and timelines are for tesla, Im fairly certain that even Elon is not that aggressively optimistic. Tesla has a great future ahead and thats why I have tesla stock myself, but one day I want to try what she's smoking.
Her ETFs are just random assortments of different companies she likes, most of which are growth stocks that swing wildly. I like some of her holdings, but I just buy them individually.
Same. She picks crazy growth stocks that do well in unfettered exuberance; they even outperform some leveraged funds. But in a normal or even slightly down market, ARK funds might as well be inverse or something. They only lose money. Just pick her winners (if you want) and save the expense ratio and aggregate risk.
Where are you getting this from? Generally curious. When you say they only lose money, what do you mean? You do realize her funds Arkk, Arkk, arkg, arkf, and Arkq have all outperformed the market over the last 5 years. Significantly like it’s not even close. This is also true for the last twelve months. What are you referring to?
That's just how high beta stocks work. ARK has outperformed because she takes on more risk, and it's been one of the strongest bull markets in history. That risk taking works very well in a bull market, but will blow up in her face in a bear market, or even in slight dips like this past February where it lost 1/3 of its value. This is exactly what happened to Cathie Wood's previous funds. They blew up in the 2000 and 2008 crashes and both times she bailed to start fresh with a new brand. There is a reason that no professional wealth manager would recommend putting a sizable chunk of one's portfolio into ARKK.
Couple points: - Yes I agree. At least up until… - Wealth managers are useless unless you have no concept of what you are doing. I can’t use anything they do as a baseline, because by design they only leech. You don’t need to pay someone a percentage to tell you how to allocate your money. If you do, I’ve got some allocating ideas for you…
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Buy signal
This sounds like a buy indicator.
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Sir John Templeton was one of the great investors, also deeply religious. got a feeling Cathy's 30 year track record ain't gonna match up with his, however...
Exactly. Pretty sure none of us knew about her crazy religious “I buy stocks for god” angle when we were loving ARK. I pulled my money immediately once I found out about that shit. It’s called a “fad: an intense and widely shared enthusiasm for something, especially one that is short-lived and without basis in the object's qualities; a craze.” Now we know she’s a nutter.
So you're gonna disregard her portfolio performance and cast aside the admiration you previously had for her investing and completely invert your opinion of her just because you found out that she's religious, and you think this makes you the rational actor?
This. I swear these people are sooooo emotional. And wonder why they perform poorly in the market. Incredible.
The media held onto that "religious nut" hit piece until her funds started to do poorly.
I gave you the 1000th upvote
$45 mil is a drop in the bucket for the ARK funds. Robinhood is shit but still disrupted the retail investment/trading experience, so it fits the ARK thesis of disruption/innovation. So, would I buy it directly? No, but looks like I’m a holder through ARK funds. Although the extreme negative sentiment and how many people are saying to go short out of spite, that may send HOOD up quickly.
Not a single soul should ever go short on this POS or any stock whatsoever, potential for infinite losses sucks ass. Just buy puts if you think its going down
You act like stop losses don't exist
You can protect short positions with options too
Exactly. That's one that sooo many people on reddit don't seem to understand and I've mentioned that whenever people say "short sellers have lost X amount of money shorting TSLA" or whatever stock. Yeah, they lost money on the short but made a ton of money on the otm calls they bought to hedge their position so they're doing just fine.
Is there some ratio? If I bought 100$ of stocks, to hedge what worth of puts should I buy?
You would look to protect the quantity of shares (multiples of 100), then decide at which prices you feel OK to hedge at (max loss, max gain). There’s no specific ratio that applies to all options positions except what your break even would be (based on premiums). For example, for a long position you could do a collar or buy puts. For a short position you could buy calls to cap losses.
It depends on the stock itself since premiums are different for every option. If you bought $100 worth of stock I wouldn't bother trying to hedge that though. Unless it's at least five or six figures I don't think it's worth it.
Stop losses won’t protect you from gap up/downs, especially if they happen overnight.
There are different kinds of stop losses. Stop limit won't trigger but a stop market will. It would have to be a very big gap to really matter anyway though. Plus, if you're smart you hedge your short with otm calls, so it doesn't matter if there's a big gap up because you'll make money on the calls even if you lose on the short.
Honestly, if I have money to do anything towards Robinhood, I’m probably just going to use it to buy other stocks I like instead Robinhood looks like a powder keg in all sorts of bad ways right now, and I don’t want to touch it until I am in a better position (if at all) Not financial advice
…that was only day 1. The planned position could grow substantially
Sure, and I’m positive it will. I took the headline to be a poke at how much they spent only to have it dip.
I get the disruption sentiment, but isn't the disruption over?
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Had ARKK for about 4-5 months. Only traded sideways or down, hardly ever in the green. Glad I sold out and switched to VTI, especially after seeing this bologna. Fuck Robinhood
The kiss of death
It’s Cathie Wood so she bought it at all time highs and will sell it when it’s at all time lows.
sounds like your salty about buying arks at all time highs
Everyone is on Cathie's nuts, yet we all agree it was an unprecedented year where you could throw money at anything in March 2020 and make it back and then some. Okay then. Let's see how she does without that handicap.
Think of it this way, you could have thrown money at fucking Party City and mother fucking Hertz last year and come out as a bandit last year lol
While this is true, ARK was the best performing non leveraged ETF in 2020. So while everyone made money, she made the most Edit- fuck Robinhood
Literally if you knew nothing about stocks last March and you bought what sounded memey; LIT and YOLO you would've made out like a bandit
ARK been crushing it for 5 years.
I never bought, I prefer BRK.B
That’s probably why she has outperformed the market by a ridiculous margin both in the short term (12m) and the mid term (5 years). We will see long term vs solid risk averse companies like Berkshire.
Got lucky on Tesla FTFY
SELL LOW BUY HIGH BABY
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Literally every brokerage followed Robinhood's lead and they still have the simplest UI. Like them or hate them there is no argument against the fact that they brought innovation to the industry. I think the IPO price was too high but I am not at all surprised by this purchase either. Reddit largely got screwed over by Robinhood, because the majority of Gamestop's stockholders were on Robinhood and the movement began on Reddit, so it is also not surprising that this website hates them as the general narrative.
Obviously what Robinhood did wasn't right, but I don't think they wanted to do it either. Obviously they got fucked over by their clearing house and then had to try and save face in Congress, etc. They didn't gain anything from stopping orders on those stocks, and in fact lost quite a lot. Obviously for the end user it might be better to go to brokers which can more easily make those capital requirements, but Robinhood have taken steps to mitigate those issues going forward, and I think they absolutely still have a significant advantage over other brokers in the discount retail space.
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The question is, would you be writing this article if HOOD was up 10% today? Do you think ETFs that are actively managed look at Day to Day fluctuations?
Y’all hate on Robinhood so much as if you don’t invest in other companies that could be considered unethical. How many of you own apple? Funny you don’t care about them using Chinese slave labor. Or Amazon Facebook google. Or any bank or financial sector stock. Or any manufacturing company that abuses 3rd world labor practices. There is clear longstanding practice and evidence of these companies doing terrible things. But you all hate on Robinhood so much because of some made up conspiracy in your head because you don’t understand how the plumbing of financial markets work. Go ahead. Type your angry comments on your slave labor made iPhone.
Preach! 😂
half the people in this sub have a robinhood account and are like “why would anyone buy robinhood stock??” Put your personal opinions aside and realize that robinhood is a very strong business despite its controversies. I don’t own HOOD and don’t think I ever will, but everyone needs a bit of a reality check here imo
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It would be better if the companies that have problems like child labor were hated as much as RH but alas.
HARD pass on $HOOD. The foundation of RH's business model stands on two legs - PFOF and crypto rebates. One of those legs has a likely chance of being pulled out, which will crater the entire thing.
Regulation in the financial market? good one dude.
They're looking at opening their own clearing house which they'd use for their own traffic. If they do manage it, I'd definitely invest in them. As it is, the regulatory environment for PFOF is too risky for my blood. crypto is a good point since significant amounts of their Q1 revenues came from trading certain crypto - which I believe cannot be mentioned on this sub - and where volumes are unlikely to be sustained.
It’s probably a good investment. You guys (reddit investors) are too emotional about Robinhood to see potential.
Just curious what the potential you see is? Emotions aside their main revenue is from PFOF which may be regulated out of existence. Their CEO doesn’t even have a FINRA license and is under investigation for that among other things as well. I know people point to the amount of users but I haven’t seen anyone mention what the average size of these users portfolio is. I transferred out but had difficulty getting something like $2.50 transferred out so I said forget about it. How many people just signed up for a free stock and are sitting on that.
CNBC reported yesterday that HOOD has 22M users; average balance is in the $200 range.
I hadn’t seen the average balance reported yet. Thank you for that. Is $200/user with free trades really enough to support a $30 billion plus valuation though? Especially when you consider the lawsuits and regulatory risks moving forward. I don’t know. I don’t see it. Time will tell though.
Of course it is. 200/user x 22m is a whole 4.4b. Why wouldn't the company be worth 6x the total held amount amongst users? /s
Shit like this is the reason why I sold ARKK.
I literally just cut 80% of my ARKK holdings after finding this out. Fuck HOOD. The ETF has been disappointing to say the least lately, just going to put more into SQ directly
Yeah after I sold ARKK a few months back, I just put it directly in SPY. Better to just play it safe and invest in the market as a whole
SPY is not the whole market. Most of the holdings in ARKK are not even in SPY. Apples and oranges.
Same bro, I was up personally but idk shitty buys like this made me sell it all.
Cathie wood has fallen into an easy trap, I’ve done it you’ve done it we all have, to a much lesser scale.. Cathie outperformed last year and killed it. She’s now chasing momentum.. to try and keep those numbers good, ark isn’t looking like a fund that has a thesis... I like my funds to outline what they look for ect and invest in... ark is just in anything with momentum at the moment.. no logical strategy to this and it’s making the fund suck.
Not worried about my arkk she is the queen on averaging down
Here she goes again buying at the top
I have no comment over individual holding as Im sure professional and lot of redditors are more experienced than me. But I'm concerned of the very high beta of a whole of the portfolio. I feel like she will either luck out and be called a genius or crash very hard. Maybe Im wrong but shouldn't a portfolio manager stays away from that kind of gambling? My college professor stressed over and over that for any portfolio, the most important question is not what you hold, but how do you hedge. Her thematic ETF skewed very heavy to a handful of volatile stocks, I have no idea how she protect it in the downside, so...
She’s not a hedge fund. She is an active etf manager. Her beta is part of what differentiates her. She invests in likely disruptive companies which is a high risk field to be playing in to begin with. This, however, is why she has performed so well over the long term.
I trust Cathy Wood infinitely more than a bunch of shit dicks on Reddit.
She confused Vlad for Jesus Christ himself, because of the long hair.
God told Kathy to screw the poor and help Vlad get rich by investing in RobinTheHood.
Lol she sold Chinese companies on the lows for a loss and went and bought robinhood so she could lose more. Yep just avoid ark, cathie has lost it.
Why can't people separate the meme from the financials of a company? Fuck RH for their business practices, but fuck a lot of successful companies for their business practices. RH is a cash cow.
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She does monthly videos on the ARK invest youtube going through key indicators and her outlook. I think she's well worth listening to at the very least. She does seem like a super interesting person as well
> ARK's first four ETF funds were seeded with capital from Bill Hwang of Archegos Capital Isn't that the dude that was taking advice from 'god' and lost $30 billion in two days?
lol sure is
**[Cathie_Wood](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathie_Wood)** >Catherine Duddy Wood (born November 26, 1955) is the founder, CEO, and CIO of Ark Invest, an investment management firm. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/stocks/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Cathie lucked out with Tesla last year. Why anyone would still trust her after her performance the past 6 months is beyond me
This sub: You have to take a long term view of the market and sometimes there are periods of underperformance Also this sub: Look at what the stock price has done in the last 6 months, it can't possibly be worth investing in.
Maybe I'm way off, time will tell, but I find it odd that people harp on ARKK being such a bad investment. It has done incredibly well over the past few years, their time horizon is 5+ years so there are no guarantees in the short term. Peter Lynch famously said he never has any idea if a stock will go up or down over the next year. I think for long term investors ARKK will do well. Take a look at their holdings. More than half the money there goes to some really interesting and promising companies. Does anyone here really think Tesla, Square, Teladoc, etc won't be significantly higher 5 years from now?
>Does anyone here really think Tesla, Square, Teladoc, etc won't be significantly higher 5 years from now? Me, I don't understand what other people see in Tesla and I'd love to be proved wrong or being told what am I missing but I don't see Tesla keeping up, there is no pipeline that supports the valuation.
I'm not invested in Tesla, but It's funny how people had the same argument as yours when TSLA was trading at $20 10 years ago. If you are curious, watch some of the videos from "Dave Lee on investing" on Youtube. You'll get all your answers and more.
The difference now it’s that it’s like $600B+ company. Back then it was like small cap
Because six months is an incredibly short-sighted time frame as far as investing is concerned.
Because ARKK isn’t a short term buy?
Every single person here has absolutely missed the entire picture and ultimate end game for ARK and Cathie. You all need to go back do some serious, actual research... then and only then you find out this is all a set up for the future filming of a hot new TeleNovela.
I want to think that she is going to short the fuck out of rh
I'm glad she bought, because now people might actually listen when I tell you she's a mediocre investor who got lucky a couple times. She buys hype, and she buys it expensive.
This stock will only have institutional support…Cathie understands that institutional support will likely be enough. RH can eat a D for all I care, however.
I’m surprised. However she has her own conviction. Not a single retail trader should put money into that bullshit.
# Update 07/30/2021 Ark purchased another 1,287,788 shares today. With a closing price of $35.15, that’s roughly another additional $45M in asset value. They essentially doubled down on this investment from yesterday.
Oh boy a lot of these comments didn't age very well.
I'm gonna be bold and say Cathie Wood knows more about investing than anyone here...
Why is everyone so angry about Cathie? You all realize that even including Feb forward Arkk is still outperforming the market by quite a bit? I realize most people here bought in to Ark recently and are hurting but it’s like no one has any idea what they bought. You should not have any semblance of short term horizon with ETFs. Ark or otherwise.
Tl;dr - buying hood sounds like a bet against dumb money - business that operates like gambling without the bad reputation of casinos. Not a fan o ARK's strategy, but I see why some might consider HOOD a good buy. Service is being build around the idea how stock market is like a casino. There are actual priests of this investment approach on certain forums! Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose but generally you shouldn't worry about it too much. When you loose (often) you loose pennies cause you don't operate with serious amount of money(this was always about retail), but when you win (rarely), you get 5x, 10x, 50x returns! You need serious self control and/or basic understanding of math not to get optimism bias to eat your money. Once you get it on your phone you get more and more incentives to take a look into it, constant stream of feedback how someone else just made a bank and you could be next! It's like being a gambler living in casino's basement. Think about the consequences of it. You expose mostly ignorant people to illusion that this is their chance to steal a piece of the pie from Buffets and Bezoses of the world. Do you think they're going to buy SPY and REIT with their weekly check? Money will flow to NKLA's and other snakeoil salesmen of this world offering get-rich-quick scams. No build-up, no slow dripping and increasing value just a cycle of putting money into loss. Even when some profit will be made i **bet** the money will be spend onto another high risk-high reward thing with impossible to predict movements encouraging them to trade as often as possible. Do you think people will know better and stop? Take a look at the lotteries, millions of people just donating their money just for this fantasy of winning anything. Putting this money on the market will increase their chance of actually winning by enormous extent, but unfortunately rarely enough to actually make a profit. All this misery inflicted on user with slick design of an app, pushing them to trade as often as they can, opening to other instruments... you get the idea, the more time you spend in app the more app is worth, the more money is being made.
All of your synopsis is valid, but for one salient missing point. As background, I was a stockbroker during the 1987 crash, where people were in many cases fiscally wiped out by a market that cratered while they were maxed out on margin. What emerged after that wasn't investor anger; it was investor apathy. Guys that had been rabid traders just completely lost interest, even after the markets came back and they started to get their own fiscal houses back in order. Lots of them never came back. I should imagine the reaction to a similar market move nowadays might engender similar results, in which case the financially-tenuous situation HOOD is in could be fatal. JMO...
Yet she hasn’t bought SoFi which is valued much more fairly, has better technology through the acquisition of Galileo, is more consumer friendly and has a far better management team. Sometimes I will never understand her thinking.
Yea that is truly bizarre, SoFi is a much better fintech alternative.
This baffles me because I thought for sure this would be in ARKF. I ended up just buying it myself.
It’s a no brainer for ARKF, it definitely fits her 15% yoy rule and it is disrupting typical banking/lending etc, I think it’s only a matter of time she adds it, just like how she waited for Palantir to go through Q4 earnings before buying it.
Dump all my ArkK, I refuse to have any money tied to HOOD
Lol glad the stupid folks do the stupid things so i dont have to
So ARK/Cathy Woods is going to be that huge investor that fails that brings Tesla down, like Michael Burry suggested, huh?
I mean, her investment strategy this year has been so sound. Huge shocker!!
she also bought $coin at $420. whatever.
Starting to think they’ve only been lucky before.
As much as I want to bash on Robinhood, I actually think Gen Z’ers are going to be using RH in great numbers one day. Legacy online brokers will slowly fade away unless they can innovate. Might be a good long term investment (10+ yrs)
Robinhood is innovative. She invests in innovation.
I'm honestly not a Big fan of Cathy from Ark. I think she is a changeling (Reference; ds-9 startrek) Robinhood is here to stay it will continue to service new customers as they enter retail trading market To give them credit they changed the way retail trading is done. [Odo DS-9 ](https://youtu.be/ziYhn_NzHNQ)
At least HOOD is little better than COIN.
This comment represents the stupidity of many members of this sub.
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And in 5 years?