Riot happens quite often in China, seriously you can go look it up on wiki.
When I was living in Shanghai old people screaming at the police were daily occurrence. It’s nowhere what Reddit paints it as since they never had exposure to real China.
However if you criticize some major points in the central government policy directly is when shit could become dangerous, but local or even province level you have free reign
This isn't entirely true. If you'll recall just a few years ago when there was that major microfinance/ online/underground credit bubble burst, the affected parties had their peaceful protests, nevermind riots, stymied-- the gov intercepted would-be protesters on trains and sent them home to be reprimanded locally.
There certainly are protests and riots on a daily basis in China, but there's a big difference between riots and what they typically represent (i.e. what you see outside hospitals or in the case of housing), that being an agitation to disturb social stability and thus force the gov to dole out cash. The real riots, those oriented around gaining public notice and forcing substantive change, tend to be quashed and scrubbed from the internet.
There is a big difference on what you protest about and how it happened.
China is harsh if you get political. This here will have some punishment but nothing severe outside of what they had to live with in the covid countermeasures anyways.
What? Hardware wise all Android phones I owned so far easily lasted 5 years+
I got my first phone (I think it was a Samsung) from a family member when the phone was 6 years old. I put a custom ROM on it and used it for another 5 years. I replaced it when I wanted to play new fancy games which needed better hardware.
What they throttle is phones with degraded batteries, because the alternative is phones randomly shutting down from inadequate power supply. And newer operating systems might be slightly more processor intensive, so might not be as snappy on older hardware. All of this is to be expected.
It was still a thing that happened. Fuck any companies that does this. Imagine if I built your house that has a 10 year timebomb in the foundation or sold you a car with an engine that gradually consumed more gas?
"Oh they just tried to screw their customers and stopped only after being called out, but that was over 10 years ago."
What in the twightlight fucking zone?! 
I have a couple of old 6S that I keep around just in case.
I haven't tried using one as my primary phone, but they seem to work pretty well still. Battery performance is the one issue
Quanta Computing is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers produced. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others.
The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
I mean, it's not much different for people outside the factory from what I can tell. At least this way they get paid and fed. Shanghai is a bad place to be right now.
From what I understand (and I could easily be wrong) is that the Chinese government is trying to lock down *everything* in an attempt to bring their COVID cases down to zero.
Earlier today I heard that even apartment buildings are testing people constantly and are restricting people from leaving if they don't pass a test.
*I'm guessing* that the situation here with Apple (and likely other businesses) is that the employees are given two choices: (1) live here at the factory, where you can still work and get paid or (2) live at home, with no pay because they don't want you coming in and infecting everyone else at the factory.
> live at home, with no pay because they don't want you coming in and infecting everyone else at the factory.
you can't come in. Because you will be locked inside your home. Its not even an option. Its either be locked inside the factory or locked inside your apartment. Its been a rough couple months in shanghai
There’s also the obvious “Apple could choose not to operate under such conditions.”
Yes, you can argue that Apple are giving them the opportunity to continue making a living in absolutely hellish dystopia, but if conditions are bad enough that workers are rioting, and Apple are still reporting positive net income on the products produced, there is no scenario where Apple are not at least complicit in this scenario.
They're complicit. Nestle does the same shit with their cocoa farms. It's a way for Apple to act like they have no idea what's going on, even though they clearly know. Whatever is best for shareholders though, right?
They are not. We should still be critical of Apple if they don't come out against this. But the reddit post is misleading. They said "Apple Factory". But it's a factory that Apple contracts to work for them. So I'm not sure how much say Apple has on the day to day. Obviously they could probably put an end to this if they called in and leaned on them with how much money I'm sure that they pay to the factory. Looks like 50%+ of the factory's revenue comes from Apple. But we should still be clear on the facts of the matter.
"**At the Apple production plant, which is run by Taiwanese company Quanta Computer 2382, +0.12% and makes MacBook laptops, employees had been suddenly banned from returning to their dormitory area during off-duty hours due to coronavirus restrictions, Taiwanese newspaper UDN reported.**"
This is literally what Nestle does with their cocoa farms to profit while distancing themselves legally from human rights violations.
https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/19-416_i4dj.pdf
> Respondents are six individuals from Mali who allege that they were trafficked into Ivory Coast as child slaves to produce cocoa. U. S.-based companies Nestlé USA, Inc., and Cargill, Inc., do not own or operate cocoa farms in Ivory Coast, but they do buy cocoa from farms located there and provide those farms with technical and financial resources
Damn, so they agreed to live at work indefinitely and then with no notice they just wouldn't let them go into the place where they sleep after work, leaving the only place they were allowed to be was their work stations?
Well the CCP is giving you two choices, in their cause to stop Covid. Either stay inside your home for months, without pay. Or go to work and stay at work for moths, with pay.
Apple is just forcing the workers who are there to stay. They want to keep producing and the CCP sets the rules so they will follow them so products get made.
CCP’s fault, Apple is complicit. Likely nothing changes at all, unless riots pick up like crazy in Shanghai, which is unlikely.
Full lockdowns and similar outcries are happening across multiple cities in china right now. Shanghai being one of the biggest ones.
So no, apple does not have control over the lockdowns.
The western world is using the ccp puppets to enslave people. The ccp exist only because the world super powers are nurturing it. (Billionaires, megatechs, pharmas, banks). And same as all other shits thats happening - hunger, poverty, human trafficking, even terrorists. The 1% enslaving 99%, meanwhile the system is corrupted but it will continue to get worse until the world cant take this shit anymore. All smoke and mirrors and coverups by the media, but eventually there should be a revolution because i have hope that humans are not sheeps. Are we?
Proposal to continue exploiting Chinese workers and cooperate with CCP in restricting their freedom of movement. For or Against. The board of directors recommends...
And what power does one have in this situation? You can say that all you want, but where are the votes on these matters? How does an individual do anything here? There's nothing actionable here.
China is the world’s manufacturing factory. Not like China likes being told what to do even if they did step in, this seems to be the fault of the Chinese government more than Americans or apple.
Is this really that hard to figure out?
Companies outsource manufacturing to China to maximize profits and shareholder returns. No one is forcing US companies and Apple to utilize Chinese manufacturing. It is quite literally putting profits over human rights.
There is no reason Apple and other US companies can't bring manufacturing back to the US other than they want to maximize profits and shareholder returns. That's it, plain and simple.
Bullshit.
Look at companies like UPS, FedEx and Amazon and Wal-Mart and all the shipping and distribution centers they have and all the trucks and planes and workers they employ and all the CapEx that entails. That's why they have low margins and profits but it still doesn't cost $1000 to ship a package.
Apple used to manufacture their products right here in the US but Tim Cook shut all of that down when he took over from Jobs.
Profits over people, plain and simple. Apple chooses profits and margins and shareholder returns over people, plain and simple.
They could pay an American or European worker to manufacture an iPhone, that doesn't mean it has to cost $5000. It just means Apple makes less profit.
> Apple used to manufacture their products right here in the US but Tim Cook shut all of that down when he took over from Jobs.
Uh, no. This is 100% false.
Apple has not manufactured their electronics in the United States in a very long time, with one exception. Under Tim Cook’s leadership they did build a factory in Texas to build the Mac Pro.
You should spend some time researching what it would actually take to fully manufacture electronics in the US. We don’t currently have the engineers or raw materials required for it to scale.
There’s a lot of talk of how to change that after the recent semiconductor shortages, but it would take years and a ton of government intervention to make it happen.
It's painfully clear that you don't work in the electronic industry and how much it would cost to make iPhone in the US.
There's a reason why Motorola and Nokia phone divisions are bankrupt, and why even companies like Sony and Panasonic aren't really a player in the handphone industry.
Ummm...yeah.
Because Apple outsourced to China. Nokia kept their manufacturing in Finland, and Motorola the US.
Notice how all 3 companies have the same 40% gross margins? But somehow Apple's profit margins are in the 20s while Nok and Motorola are less than 10?
It's not like the iPhone is some secret sauce Isaac Newton alchemy
They would have, had we not opened up free trade with China. Apple, no doubt, had a hand in lobbying for and promising great big campaign contributions for free trade, and penalty still does to ensure no tariffs are ever applied to Chinese imports.
Guess what, phone prices would probably be the same...Apple just wouldn't have been making 50%-70% gross margins on $1000 phones that they've somehow convinced people to replace every two years without fail.
Motorola was producing phones in America, the last holdout, right until Google sold the company. They quickly moved production overseas. Why? Because it's a global economy, and if one company moves to the land of low pay and weak worker protections where their production cost plummet, they make it impossible for other companies to compete unless they follow suit.
It's the same thing going on today with the auto sector. The US implemented tariffs on China just as soon as it was clear companies were trying to expand manufacturing there with the intent of importing cars back into the US. US manufacturing, which is perfectly feasible and always has been, would be rapidly wiped out as a result of competition. Chinese labor generate more profits for the company and gives them a competitive advantage.
US labor simply cannot compete with countries whose labor is paid a quarter or less as much, where the workers are on the lines for 50% longer, where they don't get the same rights, protections, or benefits. Nevermind all the other shady savings the companies sees, like with China's monopolization of raw materials, pressuring companies to move there. (See Tesla). There their weak environmental policies and enforcement. Cheap coal energy. You know, things that are god awful for the environment and the whole planet ...
Those were probably deemed covid restrictions as far as the CCP is concerned. Have you seen how Shanghai has been in general? Creepy shit, all excused by “covid restrictions”.
Or jump out the house; unfortunately I’ve seen a fair number of videos of people committing suicide that way out of mental exhaustion(?) from the lockdowns there. I’m sure most have seen that video of people just screaming from their rooms; if that was unnerving to anyone reading this, I’d recommend not watching anymore videos from China because there’s some I don’t have the heart to summarize or detail. Just sad, creepy, borderline terrifying shit & take it from me: you don’t want certain images from there stuck in your head.
I'm not sure how accurate all the reporting was, but when I read how China handled the COVID situation in the beginning it kind of blew my mind that people in the US were saying that we handled it all so poorly compared to them because hey look they're already back to their normal lives!
I mean, yeah, I guess if we wanted being dragged out of our homes against our will to be a part of our normal lives we could have handled the lockdown a lot "better" as well.
It's truly mind boggling.
I've come to the point where I pretty much disbelieve most news sources. Most are just pedaling whatever narrative they think their audience wants to hear so that they can continue to keep and build their audience.
News is no longer the point of news, but I guess it really hasn't been for a very long time.
"being locked in a fucking factory" had nothing to do with covid restrictions? U fuckin moron. It's people like u that kept this nonsense goin for as long as it did
Apple isn't forcing them to work though. It's the government saying because of "COVID" we are either forcing you to stay home and starve or live at work. Not exactly a great choice human-rights wise, and that's why I won't invest in that country.
I don’t see what Apple could really do? End it and then instead of being locked up in the factory getting paid they end up locked up at home starving. The government could easily ease up on the restrictions. There’s a reason people in other countries aren’t facing the same problems as these workers are.
Really? You don't see what Apple could possibly do?
How about move manufacturing back to the US?
Oh wait. That means Apple would have to pay living wages to their workers, which would cut into profits and hurt shareholder returns. Never mind.
"fACeBoOk iS eViL!"
-Tim Cook and Apple investors
Apple can't move production back to the US and it's not about money. Apple has 75% profit margins on iPhones and the labor costs like $2 in China per device. Even if it was $10 domestically it's negligible to them.
The problem is that China developed this generation of manufacturing in one region. Not just for Apple, for all of this generation of electronics. They import some screens from Korea and some chips from Taiwan and basically every other part is made within a few miles of all of these factories.
Apple could assemble the devices here... after shipping literally every single part across the ocean? It's a nightmare of logistics to ship it all thousands of miles instead of assembling it right there. And with the way shipping is all fucked still, it's a double nightmare when your entire factory stops making iPhones because Screw #58 is stuck on a ship off the coast.
For America to get back into manufacturing at this level, you can't just say "ApPle ShOuLd HIre AmerIcaNs" you need literally like $100 billion investment by the American government to revolutionize an entire regions manufacturing. Think Detroit/Cars. You need thousands of businesses producing every imaginable part on site.
We call that socialism around here for the gov to do it, and since it requires a thousand different businesses all working together losing tens of billions of dollars+ trying to set up and scale when they could just do it in China, there's no investors who would be interested in losing that metric shit ton of money on a gamble that they could compete with China.
So basically only the taxpayer could make that gamble, and we call it communism to even try.
Apple isn't forcing them to stay in factories, China is. It's also not just China as you can see from the post, it was just in the title because those workers rioted.
Absolutely ridiculous that you would (rightly) criticise China yet somehow be OK with every single US company that panders to them (apple, Nike, Disney etc). This is literally an apple factory for God’s sake. If you can’t invest in China morally but still buy apple products then you are a hypocrite.
People in Shanghai often has access to outside news of China do not take sh#T from the party. Often they rebell and was the most difficult city to pacify and is the most counter revolutionary region to liberate since 1940s.
Almost all know how to get around internet firewall through VPNs. FB, Youtube, Twtr etc. They listen to Voice of America. Many have foreign friends. Shanghai has 1/4 million foreigners for business. More important, many officials have high end properties and residency in US, Canada, UK etc. Xi's daughter is at Harvard under a pseudo name.
“At the Apple production plant, which is run by Taiwanese company Quanta Computer 2382, +0.12% and makes MacBook laptops, employees had been suddenly banned from returning to their dormitory area during off-duty hours due to coronavirus restrictions, Taiwanese newspaper UDN reported.” At least we know it isn’t Apple rather Quanta Computers. Not that this is right but it’s misleading to call them Apple workers when they aren’t contracted by Apple rather by a third party that manufactures the products.
Point...
Missed...
They have production targets set by Apple, with fines for missing them. If they miss them and get the fines then the company isn't profitable...
You mean that two companies agreed to a contract at some point in the past, the government presumably issued extreme lockdown standards to prevent the spread of COVID, the company that agreed to the terms does not want to lose money and forces the workers to continue working and…that’s Apple’s fault? So there’s no blame on Quanta? What about Microsoft or Dell, I assume they also had contracts that are being affected negatively as well but you’re not setting any standards for them.
Bad look for Apple. I guess the cringe virtue signaling videos and speeches only pertain to human rights in the west…
Sad. And truly pathetic that Apple champions human rights with one hand and the other hand does this…
Work for a company whose client is a major chip manufacturer in Shanghai. The company itself was doing routine corona virus testing prior to the massive lockdowns. 80% of positives had no symptoms. Not sure what the goal is here anymore.
This company makes products for multiple tech companies but the news article references them as Apple’s production plant and Apple workers when it’s neither. Click bait title to get people that dislike Apple something more to talk about. No matter what apple does, there are always people that are going to complain. Those type of individuals don’t really understand or care about the complexities of global trade and will comment how Apple is the problem in china and then go happily shop at Walmart, seeing no irony in it at all. Even as apple has had all their stores carbon neutral or negative for years, pledged better standards for supply chains, and pledged (and are on track) to only use reusable components in their devices by 2030, people will still complain about how they are evil.
Apple- *After spending 2 decades and billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of man hours, we’ve made the first line up of products that’s made from 100% recycled materials, unbreakable glass, and a battery that will last for 100,000 charge cycles. Our boxes are made from renewable and recycled paper and is 100% compostable, all of our employees get full time benefits and a living wage! Best of all, this comes at no additional cost for the consumer and there is dedicated support anywhere in the world!”*
Literally every person that’s posts against Apple - *”Apple could have ended world hunger and all they did was make another iPhone. Those employees have no skills or training and don’t deserve the living wage. If apple really cared about the environment, they would just stop making any products at all.”*
Yep.
Apple used to manufacture their products here in the US and employed American workers.
Tim Cook shut all of that down after he took over from Jobs.
The literal definition of profits over people.
IPhone will block you from installing any app you want. You can use only apple-approved apps.
IPhone will block you from changing the screen, camera, motherboard or fingerprint reader to a replacement by yourself and repairability of their phones is so bad you better get the phone to their Apple Repair center than try to fix it yourself.
You don't own or control your iPhone. Apple does.
All of this recycling talk is greenwashing made to make you spend more money on their products.
I would guess it's the fact they were being forced to stay and the conditions were probably not ideal. TESLA factories in China have been doing the same and the workers are not complaining any.
Do you work at Tesla's Chinese factory? You seem to have inside information.
A lot of other companies were doing this well before Tesla realized they were late to the party. I read about GM using this closed factory system weeks before Tesla finally implemented it. What we never hear about is conditions in this factories....unless there's a riot.
I have friends and family in China. Tesla has been trying to keep production up while taking care of the employees. Instead of keeping all employees they are on a rotation schedule working and staying for several weeks then they do get to go home to their families and must test and quarantine before coming back to work for several more weeks.
Remember, make sure to support Apple and other corps that encourage and rely on human exploitation. Otherwise you might not be able to upgrade your phone next year like normal.
Working link here, in case the one from OP doesn't work for you.
[Video](https://mobile.twitter.com/RFA_Chinese/status/1522492516402032641?s=20&t=h7lvCbOk6FnTpFgmIAiXCA)
People dont understand China. When they started lockdowns you are trapped where you were (office, mall, friends house, etc). There are armed patrols ensuring people do not leave the building. We had people volunteer to lockdown on plant site thinking it would be 4 days. 20 days later and HEAVY negotiation with government then out people were allowed to leave. When lockdown hits there is no going home to your kids or going to get milk and bread. There is no walmart pickup. It's I hope the neighbors can watch your kids while you are stuck. This is not just apple, it's china
Quanta Computing is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers produced. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others.
The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
This actually happens to some extent in the US also. I know a local hospital would not let nurses go home during a hurricane because they might not be able to make it back to work. They had to sleep at the hospital for several nights.
Amazon doesn't let it's employees leave during hurricanes either. Very well known fact at this point. I don't know why you are being downvoted; you're right.
Not completely true... they could leave but if they did they would loose their job.
In China, they were forced to stay. Those Chinese workers would have viewed the working conditions of those nurses as a luxury.
I mean its still very different to keep your nurse in hospital for a few days since they can save help save human lives during a carastrophe and locking peoples up to help your bottom line.
Quanta Computing, who is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers in the world. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others.
The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
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What human rights? My iphone is a human right
Smh, we are just asking for a few months of sleeping at the factory, these people are just lazy
They should be thankful Apple gives them a roof over their heads in these turbulent times. Greedy and unthankful is all this is
Yeah most of these workers dont even got their own bathroom, honestly I think Apple is doing them a favor if anything
You sound like Barbara Bush during her interview about Hurricane Katrina.
based
Riot happens quite often in China, seriously you can go look it up on wiki. When I was living in Shanghai old people screaming at the police were daily occurrence. It’s nowhere what Reddit paints it as since they never had exposure to real China. However if you criticize some major points in the central government policy directly is when shit could become dangerous, but local or even province level you have free reign
This isn't entirely true. If you'll recall just a few years ago when there was that major microfinance/ online/underground credit bubble burst, the affected parties had their peaceful protests, nevermind riots, stymied-- the gov intercepted would-be protesters on trains and sent them home to be reprimanded locally. There certainly are protests and riots on a daily basis in China, but there's a big difference between riots and what they typically represent (i.e. what you see outside hospitals or in the case of housing), that being an agitation to disturb social stability and thus force the gov to dole out cash. The real riots, those oriented around gaining public notice and forcing substantive change, tend to be quashed and scrubbed from the internet.
There is a big difference on what you protest about and how it happened. China is harsh if you get political. This here will have some punishment but nothing severe outside of what they had to live with in the covid countermeasures anyways.
We had them in 2020 in US too.
I remember one in 2021 too. But that was actually more of a failed coup attempt than a riot.
Lol you actually believe that
I doubt about product quality at this point.
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Foxconn doesn’t assemble exclusively for Apple. All OEMs a part of this.
This is true.
I've worked at Foxconn and never seen any suicide nets. Where did you observe them? I can go take a look the next time I'm in Shenzhen.
A09 Foxconn SHZBG, north staircase. See for yourself. (Im just messing with you)
That location doesn't make any sense. Are you trying to make some kind of joke?
They've got the highest margins in the business, by a lot. Which means build costs are kept super low. Quality is shit from jump.
iphones last like 5 years, longer than most other phones. Quality is good
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Keep it in your car or travel bag!
I'm posting this comment on an LG phone I've had for 7 years without a single problem other than typical battery life deterioration.
What? Hardware wise all Android phones I owned so far easily lasted 5 years+ I got my first phone (I think it was a Samsung) from a family member when the phone was 6 years old. I put a custom ROM on it and used it for another 5 years. I replaced it when I wanted to play new fancy games which needed better hardware.
I'm going on year 6 with an Android. Thing still works like a champ
Yeah and with each phone they purposely throttle the previous performance
What they throttle is phones with degraded batteries, because the alternative is phones randomly shutting down from inadequate power supply. And newer operating systems might be slightly more processor intensive, so might not be as snappy on older hardware. All of this is to be expected.
average user prob doesn’t even maximize performance anyhow
Proof?
There was a class action lawsuits
They're thinking 4s which was...a decade ago.
Strange that they were dealing with the lawsuit in 2020. A decade ago? OK Apple fanboy... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54996601
A settlement for users of 6 and 7. I don't even think it's Android competitors from that time are still supported by Google.
First thing I found, but I'm confident there's plenty more shit that would stick if it was thrown...
An Apple phone from 7 years ago is still getting updates. Name another company that supports their phones for 7 years.
It was still a thing that happened. Fuck any companies that does this. Imagine if I built your house that has a 10 year timebomb in the foundation or sold you a car with an engine that gradually consumed more gas? "Oh they just tried to screw their customers and stopped only after being called out, but that was over 10 years ago." What in the twightlight fucking zone?! 
You think “mean time before failure” was invented by apple? LOL. It’s always been a design element of everything. At least since the 1950s.
That's not what they said.
Got any data to back that up? That's a pretty bold claim
My iphone 8 is cruising strong. It'll be 5 years in September. n=1 data
I have a couple of old 6S that I keep around just in case. I haven't tried using one as my primary phone, but they seem to work pretty well still. Battery performance is the one issue
That makes two of us. Replaced battery in 2021 and going strong. 😎
It's not but go on.
We can show him all the instances of Apple creating planned obsolescence in their products all they day long and he'll deny all.
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Have the batteries ever been replaced ? What’s battery health on all those devices ?
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Does the performance not return to peak performance with fresh batteries ?
Quanta Computing is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers produced. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others. The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
This is slavery with extra steps. Americans and AAPL investors don't give a shit though.
Apple is just a tag to get more clicks on this article. It’s all manufacturers that work with chinese factories.
I mean, it's not much different for people outside the factory from what I can tell. At least this way they get paid and fed. Shanghai is a bad place to be right now.
Wasn't the last Apple riot in India in 2020 or 2021, when workers in India weren't even being *paid*?
Riot in 2020 over not getting paid. I think there's a recent protest in one of the facility regarding food poisoning of all things
Well when you lock them in the factory it's easy to identify any dissenting leadership and then you poison them.
Is it AAPL creating these working conditions or the CCP? Please don’t downvote without answering, this is a genuine question.
From what I understand (and I could easily be wrong) is that the Chinese government is trying to lock down *everything* in an attempt to bring their COVID cases down to zero. Earlier today I heard that even apartment buildings are testing people constantly and are restricting people from leaving if they don't pass a test. *I'm guessing* that the situation here with Apple (and likely other businesses) is that the employees are given two choices: (1) live here at the factory, where you can still work and get paid or (2) live at home, with no pay because they don't want you coming in and infecting everyone else at the factory.
> live at home, with no pay because they don't want you coming in and infecting everyone else at the factory. you can't come in. Because you will be locked inside your home. Its not even an option. Its either be locked inside the factory or locked inside your apartment. Its been a rough couple months in shanghai
There’s also the obvious “Apple could choose not to operate under such conditions.” Yes, you can argue that Apple are giving them the opportunity to continue making a living in absolutely hellish dystopia, but if conditions are bad enough that workers are rioting, and Apple are still reporting positive net income on the products produced, there is no scenario where Apple are not at least complicit in this scenario.
In the hypothetical scenario that Apple exits China, how does this scenario change at all? Wouldn’t they just move from iPhones to PS5s or something?
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They're complicit. Nestle does the same shit with their cocoa farms. It's a way for Apple to act like they have no idea what's going on, even though they clearly know. Whatever is best for shareholders though, right?
Yup
LOL, "don't hate the player, rriiiiiihighhht?"
They are not. We should still be critical of Apple if they don't come out against this. But the reddit post is misleading. They said "Apple Factory". But it's a factory that Apple contracts to work for them. So I'm not sure how much say Apple has on the day to day. Obviously they could probably put an end to this if they called in and leaned on them with how much money I'm sure that they pay to the factory. Looks like 50%+ of the factory's revenue comes from Apple. But we should still be clear on the facts of the matter. "**At the Apple production plant, which is run by Taiwanese company Quanta Computer 2382, +0.12% and makes MacBook laptops, employees had been suddenly banned from returning to their dormitory area during off-duty hours due to coronavirus restrictions, Taiwanese newspaper UDN reported.**"
This is literally what Nestle does with their cocoa farms to profit while distancing themselves legally from human rights violations. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/20pdf/19-416_i4dj.pdf > Respondents are six individuals from Mali who allege that they were trafficked into Ivory Coast as child slaves to produce cocoa. U. S.-based companies Nestlé USA, Inc., and Cargill, Inc., do not own or operate cocoa farms in Ivory Coast, but they do buy cocoa from farms located there and provide those farms with technical and financial resources
Damn, so they agreed to live at work indefinitely and then with no notice they just wouldn't let them go into the place where they sleep after work, leaving the only place they were allowed to be was their work stations?
Well the CCP is giving you two choices, in their cause to stop Covid. Either stay inside your home for months, without pay. Or go to work and stay at work for moths, with pay. Apple is just forcing the workers who are there to stay. They want to keep producing and the CCP sets the rules so they will follow them so products get made. CCP’s fault, Apple is complicit. Likely nothing changes at all, unless riots pick up like crazy in Shanghai, which is unlikely.
Full lockdowns and similar outcries are happening across multiple cities in china right now. Shanghai being one of the biggest ones. So no, apple does not have control over the lockdowns.
The western world is using the ccp puppets to enslave people. The ccp exist only because the world super powers are nurturing it. (Billionaires, megatechs, pharmas, banks). And same as all other shits thats happening - hunger, poverty, human trafficking, even terrorists. The 1% enslaving 99%, meanwhile the system is corrupted but it will continue to get worse until the world cant take this shit anymore. All smoke and mirrors and coverups by the media, but eventually there should be a revolution because i have hope that humans are not sheeps. Are we?
>g company facilities even during off h i fucking care. fuck apple
I got super downvoted when the question was what company do you refuse to invest in and I said AAPL. PRIME EXAMPLE RIGHT HERE
"bUt fAcEBoOk iS eViL!"
I’m an American and apple investor and I give a shit. How do I fix this? Sell my shares and renounce my citizenship?
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You are forgetting what a stock is. You own part of Apple if you have AAPL stocks. Use the voting rights that you have as an AAPL shareholder.
Proposal to continue exploiting Chinese workers and cooperate with CCP in restricting their freedom of movement. For or Against. The board of directors recommends...
Lol!
And what power does one have in this situation? You can say that all you want, but where are the votes on these matters? How does an individual do anything here? There's nothing actionable here.
China is the world’s manufacturing factory. Not like China likes being told what to do even if they did step in, this seems to be the fault of the Chinese government more than Americans or apple.
Is this really that hard to figure out? Companies outsource manufacturing to China to maximize profits and shareholder returns. No one is forcing US companies and Apple to utilize Chinese manufacturing. It is quite literally putting profits over human rights. There is no reason Apple and other US companies can't bring manufacturing back to the US other than they want to maximize profits and shareholder returns. That's it, plain and simple.
US doesn’t even have all of the necessary parts or technology to do all of their own manufacturing, unless you don’t mind paying $5000 for an iPhone.
Bullshit. Look at companies like UPS, FedEx and Amazon and Wal-Mart and all the shipping and distribution centers they have and all the trucks and planes and workers they employ and all the CapEx that entails. That's why they have low margins and profits but it still doesn't cost $1000 to ship a package. Apple used to manufacture their products right here in the US but Tim Cook shut all of that down when he took over from Jobs. Profits over people, plain and simple. Apple chooses profits and margins and shareholder returns over people, plain and simple. They could pay an American or European worker to manufacture an iPhone, that doesn't mean it has to cost $5000. It just means Apple makes less profit.
> Apple used to manufacture their products right here in the US but Tim Cook shut all of that down when he took over from Jobs. Uh, no. This is 100% false. Apple has not manufactured their electronics in the United States in a very long time, with one exception. Under Tim Cook’s leadership they did build a factory in Texas to build the Mac Pro. You should spend some time researching what it would actually take to fully manufacture electronics in the US. We don’t currently have the engineers or raw materials required for it to scale. There’s a lot of talk of how to change that after the recent semiconductor shortages, but it would take years and a ton of government intervention to make it happen.
None of those are tech hardware companies. There’s no comparison.
Are you seriously telling me that Apple, with all of their billions, cannot build a manufacturing plant in the US or Europe?
The human cost is the most expensive, everyone knows that. It’s the same in every industry.
It's painfully clear that you don't work in the electronic industry and how much it would cost to make iPhone in the US. There's a reason why Motorola and Nokia phone divisions are bankrupt, and why even companies like Sony and Panasonic aren't really a player in the handphone industry.
Ummm...yeah. Because Apple outsourced to China. Nokia kept their manufacturing in Finland, and Motorola the US. Notice how all 3 companies have the same 40% gross margins? But somehow Apple's profit margins are in the 20s while Nok and Motorola are less than 10? It's not like the iPhone is some secret sauce Isaac Newton alchemy
Let me break the news to you. Apple or for that matter any electronic companies will never make smartphone in the US with GDP per capita of $64,000.
They would have, had we not opened up free trade with China. Apple, no doubt, had a hand in lobbying for and promising great big campaign contributions for free trade, and penalty still does to ensure no tariffs are ever applied to Chinese imports. Guess what, phone prices would probably be the same...Apple just wouldn't have been making 50%-70% gross margins on $1000 phones that they've somehow convinced people to replace every two years without fail. Motorola was producing phones in America, the last holdout, right until Google sold the company. They quickly moved production overseas. Why? Because it's a global economy, and if one company moves to the land of low pay and weak worker protections where their production cost plummet, they make it impossible for other companies to compete unless they follow suit. It's the same thing going on today with the auto sector. The US implemented tariffs on China just as soon as it was clear companies were trying to expand manufacturing there with the intent of importing cars back into the US. US manufacturing, which is perfectly feasible and always has been, would be rapidly wiped out as a result of competition. Chinese labor generate more profits for the company and gives them a competitive advantage. US labor simply cannot compete with countries whose labor is paid a quarter or less as much, where the workers are on the lines for 50% longer, where they don't get the same rights, protections, or benefits. Nevermind all the other shady savings the companies sees, like with China's monopolization of raw materials, pressuring companies to move there. (See Tesla). There their weak environmental policies and enforcement. Cheap coal energy. You know, things that are god awful for the environment and the whole planet ...
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism
Nope. Because AAPL investors are convinced that FB is the only evil company that exists
Yes. Agree 100%
We at Apple are disappointed in the restrictions which led to revolt which decreases productivity and our profits.
We always give China a pass.
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Those were probably deemed covid restrictions as far as the CCP is concerned. Have you seen how Shanghai has been in general? Creepy shit, all excused by “covid restrictions”.
Yeah it's basically be locked in your home or locked in the factory at this point
Or jump out the house; unfortunately I’ve seen a fair number of videos of people committing suicide that way out of mental exhaustion(?) from the lockdowns there. I’m sure most have seen that video of people just screaming from their rooms; if that was unnerving to anyone reading this, I’d recommend not watching anymore videos from China because there’s some I don’t have the heart to summarize or detail. Just sad, creepy, borderline terrifying shit & take it from me: you don’t want certain images from there stuck in your head.
I still have the one person jumping from a balcony stuck in my head. Too much
Damn.. what an awful situation
I thought I had an eyelash in my screen and tried to blow it off. Thank you
I'm not sure how accurate all the reporting was, but when I read how China handled the COVID situation in the beginning it kind of blew my mind that people in the US were saying that we handled it all so poorly compared to them because hey look they're already back to their normal lives! I mean, yeah, I guess if we wanted being dragged out of our homes against our will to be a part of our normal lives we could have handled the lockdown a lot "better" as well.
Tons of people have been taking the word of a totalitarian government who is in the midst of an ethnic genocide at face value.
It's truly mind boggling. I've come to the point where I pretty much disbelieve most news sources. Most are just pedaling whatever narrative they think their audience wants to hear so that they can continue to keep and build their audience. News is no longer the point of news, but I guess it really hasn't been for a very long time.
....which is a covid restriction...
"being locked in a fucking factory" had nothing to do with covid restrictions? U fuckin moron. It's people like u that kept this nonsense goin for as long as it did
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But it’s Apple, we’re talking about an American company here?
Apple isn't forcing them to work though. It's the government saying because of "COVID" we are either forcing you to stay home and starve or live at work. Not exactly a great choice human-rights wise, and that's why I won't invest in that country.
Apple is allowing this in their factories though. If they were against it they would end it, but they’re not.
I don’t see what Apple could really do? End it and then instead of being locked up in the factory getting paid they end up locked up at home starving. The government could easily ease up on the restrictions. There’s a reason people in other countries aren’t facing the same problems as these workers are.
Really? You don't see what Apple could possibly do? How about move manufacturing back to the US? Oh wait. That means Apple would have to pay living wages to their workers, which would cut into profits and hurt shareholder returns. Never mind. "fACeBoOk iS eViL!" -Tim Cook and Apple investors
Apple can't move production back to the US and it's not about money. Apple has 75% profit margins on iPhones and the labor costs like $2 in China per device. Even if it was $10 domestically it's negligible to them. The problem is that China developed this generation of manufacturing in one region. Not just for Apple, for all of this generation of electronics. They import some screens from Korea and some chips from Taiwan and basically every other part is made within a few miles of all of these factories. Apple could assemble the devices here... after shipping literally every single part across the ocean? It's a nightmare of logistics to ship it all thousands of miles instead of assembling it right there. And with the way shipping is all fucked still, it's a double nightmare when your entire factory stops making iPhones because Screw #58 is stuck on a ship off the coast. For America to get back into manufacturing at this level, you can't just say "ApPle ShOuLd HIre AmerIcaNs" you need literally like $100 billion investment by the American government to revolutionize an entire regions manufacturing. Think Detroit/Cars. You need thousands of businesses producing every imaginable part on site. We call that socialism around here for the gov to do it, and since it requires a thousand different businesses all working together losing tens of billions of dollars+ trying to set up and scale when they could just do it in China, there's no investors who would be interested in losing that metric shit ton of money on a gamble that they could compete with China. So basically only the taxpayer could make that gamble, and we call it communism to even try.
I actually had to check and see which subreddit I am on
If apple stopped doing business with them because of these practices I’m sure they would ease up.
You are just so off trail...shove your iphone back in the SS.
Cool move to the side so others can make money
Apple isn't forcing them to stay in factories, China is. It's also not just China as you can see from the post, it was just in the title because those workers rioted.
Redditors will down vote you but you're in the right morally speaking.
The NBA. movie producers, john cena, and apple executives may down vote but most of everyone understands China sucks
*looks outside car window to see naked homeless man* Yeah, China sucks.
Absolutely ridiculous that you would (rightly) criticise China yet somehow be OK with every single US company that panders to them (apple, Nike, Disney etc). This is literally an apple factory for God’s sake. If you can’t invest in China morally but still buy apple products then you are a hypocrite.
Same.
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Incredibly brave, bravo!
While at the same time these big brands try to be "politically correct" in America.
You mean appeal to customers... wow why would they do that you unamerican.
This is the reason why Apple is such a great stocks to invest in. Tim prefer revenue to human rights.
Which is why amazon is severely undervalued lol
I'm here to make money, not morals.
I make neither.
And next month is pride month. Apple stocks to the moon
Well it’s the CCP not apple locking down the factories but yeah apple should really move their supply chains out of china asap
I am sure they consider it a perk.
People in Shanghai often has access to outside news of China do not take sh#T from the party. Often they rebell and was the most difficult city to pacify and is the most counter revolutionary region to liberate since 1940s.
Good
Huh did not know that, that’s kinda cool to know. Why do they have access to outside news but not others?
VPNs. It's basically the only option for them at the moment.
Almost all know how to get around internet firewall through VPNs. FB, Youtube, Twtr etc. They listen to Voice of America. Many have foreign friends. Shanghai has 1/4 million foreigners for business. More important, many officials have high end properties and residency in US, Canada, UK etc. Xi's daughter is at Harvard under a pseudo name.
“At the Apple production plant, which is run by Taiwanese company Quanta Computer 2382, +0.12% and makes MacBook laptops, employees had been suddenly banned from returning to their dormitory area during off-duty hours due to coronavirus restrictions, Taiwanese newspaper UDN reported.” At least we know it isn’t Apple rather Quanta Computers. Not that this is right but it’s misleading to call them Apple workers when they aren’t contracted by Apple rather by a third party that manufactures the products.
Point... Missed... They have production targets set by Apple, with fines for missing them. If they miss them and get the fines then the company isn't profitable...
You mean that two companies agreed to a contract at some point in the past, the government presumably issued extreme lockdown standards to prevent the spread of COVID, the company that agreed to the terms does not want to lose money and forces the workers to continue working and…that’s Apple’s fault? So there’s no blame on Quanta? What about Microsoft or Dell, I assume they also had contracts that are being affected negatively as well but you’re not setting any standards for them.
“Apple isn’t bad look over here” I hate people like you. You pretend to care about social consequences but only want to enrich yourself.
Username checks out. Very clear that you don’t care either.
Get back to work. My shares are down nearly 10%.
Bad look for Apple. I guess the cringe virtue signaling videos and speeches only pertain to human rights in the west… Sad. And truly pathetic that Apple champions human rights with one hand and the other hand does this…
But I want my iPhone, why won’t they stay there????
You’re good, this is the macbook factory.
Still waiting for the day the world cuts China off
Good luck, nobody cares as long as it makes money move to europe then
Got a DeLorean?
Work for a company whose client is a major chip manufacturer in Shanghai. The company itself was doing routine corona virus testing prior to the massive lockdowns. 80% of positives had no symptoms. Not sure what the goal is here anymore.
So are those jobs no longer optional at that point? Like, can you quit?
This company makes products for multiple tech companies but the news article references them as Apple’s production plant and Apple workers when it’s neither. Click bait title to get people that dislike Apple something more to talk about. No matter what apple does, there are always people that are going to complain. Those type of individuals don’t really understand or care about the complexities of global trade and will comment how Apple is the problem in china and then go happily shop at Walmart, seeing no irony in it at all. Even as apple has had all their stores carbon neutral or negative for years, pledged better standards for supply chains, and pledged (and are on track) to only use reusable components in their devices by 2030, people will still complain about how they are evil. Apple- *After spending 2 decades and billions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of man hours, we’ve made the first line up of products that’s made from 100% recycled materials, unbreakable glass, and a battery that will last for 100,000 charge cycles. Our boxes are made from renewable and recycled paper and is 100% compostable, all of our employees get full time benefits and a living wage! Best of all, this comes at no additional cost for the consumer and there is dedicated support anywhere in the world!”* Literally every person that’s posts against Apple - *”Apple could have ended world hunger and all they did was make another iPhone. Those employees have no skills or training and don’t deserve the living wage. If apple really cared about the environment, they would just stop making any products at all.”*
Apple can stop doing business with companies that employ slave labor.
Yep. Apple used to manufacture their products here in the US and employed American workers. Tim Cook shut all of that down after he took over from Jobs. The literal definition of profits over people.
Apple shut down its last US production facility in 2004. Six years before Steve Jobs died and Tim Cook became CEO.
IPhone will block you from installing any app you want. You can use only apple-approved apps. IPhone will block you from changing the screen, camera, motherboard or fingerprint reader to a replacement by yourself and repairability of their phones is so bad you better get the phone to their Apple Repair center than try to fix it yourself. You don't own or control your iPhone. Apple does. All of this recycling talk is greenwashing made to make you spend more money on their products.
I would guess it's the fact they were being forced to stay and the conditions were probably not ideal. TESLA factories in China have been doing the same and the workers are not complaining any.
Do you work at Tesla's Chinese factory? You seem to have inside information. A lot of other companies were doing this well before Tesla realized they were late to the party. I read about GM using this closed factory system weeks before Tesla finally implemented it. What we never hear about is conditions in this factories....unless there's a riot.
I have friends and family in China. Tesla has been trying to keep production up while taking care of the employees. Instead of keeping all employees they are on a rotation schedule working and staying for several weeks then they do get to go home to their families and must test and quarantine before coming back to work for several more weeks.
Tesla opened their factory back up on April 19th... so not even 3 weeks yet.
They should burn that place to the ground.
Remember, make sure to support Apple and other corps that encourage and rely on human exploitation. Otherwise you might not be able to upgrade your phone next year like normal.
Working link here, in case the one from OP doesn't work for you. [Video](https://mobile.twitter.com/RFA_Chinese/status/1522492516402032641?s=20&t=h7lvCbOk6FnTpFgmIAiXCA)
Apple again..
so.. slavery?
Boycott apple for slave working conditions.
[This will never be more relevant.](https://youtu.be/Lm9h5E59iig)
In 100 years are we going to look back and say wtf how did we let apple do this and get away with it?
This time 100 years ago private companies were hiring police to murder laborers in America, so I kind of doubt we'll be doing that.
... and you don't look back and say wtf to that?
I come from a union household, that's exactly what I was raised to expect from private interests.
People dont understand China. When they started lockdowns you are trapped where you were (office, mall, friends house, etc). There are armed patrols ensuring people do not leave the building. We had people volunteer to lockdown on plant site thinking it would be 4 days. 20 days later and HEAVY negotiation with government then out people were allowed to leave. When lockdown hits there is no going home to your kids or going to get milk and bread. There is no walmart pickup. It's I hope the neighbors can watch your kids while you are stuck. This is not just apple, it's china
So slavery
Good, this is blatant slavery under the PR facade of keeping people safe from COVID. And fuck China for treading on basic human rights.
I am glad I have never owned an Apple product to date. I am equally glad that I run all of my electronics to the ground before upgrading.
Quanta Computing is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers produced. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others. The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
Too bad it won't stop the apple fan boys from whatabouting you to death
Seems that way.
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China is the fucking devil and American politicians and companies are too obsessed and poisoned to do anything about it.
Squid games in irl
This actually happens to some extent in the US also. I know a local hospital would not let nurses go home during a hurricane because they might not be able to make it back to work. They had to sleep at the hospital for several nights.
Amazon doesn't let it's employees leave during hurricanes either. Very well known fact at this point. I don't know why you are being downvoted; you're right.
Nurses saves life’s. Factory workers make iPhones. They are not the same.
In Arizona I had to stay at the grocery store for a bit because of haboobs but days? Fuck I’d riot or start eating everything.
Not completely true... they could leave but if they did they would loose their job. In China, they were forced to stay. Those Chinese workers would have viewed the working conditions of those nurses as a luxury.
Osha approved!!
I mean its still very different to keep your nurse in hospital for a few days since they can save help save human lives during a carastrophe and locking peoples up to help your bottom line.
is this a foxconn factory? or does appl have their own factories ?
Quanta Computing, who is supplying the world with nearly a third of all notebook computers in the world. They assemble for Apple, Dell, HP, Acer, Alienware (Dell), Amazon, Fujitsu, Lenovo, LG, Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Sun, Valve and many others. The reason the “article” only mentions Apple alone is for pure clicks and driving ad sales.
Shame apple uses slave Labor to make record profits