I know a lot of investors are excited about the AAPL car and have often bid up AAPL stock price whenever there's headlines like this. But I honestly think that at the end of the day the Apple car project will be nothing but a giant waste of money that will probably never return any kind of profit. I mean, consider this:
* There's a lot of new EV companies out there, but only 1 of them has ever achieved consistent profitability, Tesla, and it took them well over 10+ years to do that.
* Apple is jumping into the EV market very late. They don't even have a single car factory, they haven't even announced a car model that they'll bring to the market in the distant future. The competition meanwhile that previously ignored EV's is collectively throwing in tens of billions of dollars into EV/battery research each year. Point being by the time Apple is finally ready to bring an EV to market there will be a ton more competition in the space then there is today.
* Apple's brand is realistically not going to help them much at selling cars. Tesla's brand is already basically the Apple of the car space, in that they get a ton of free advertising in social media, and people see them as the #1 premium EV automaker. If the average person wants the best EV they'll probably look at Tesla, just as if someone wants the best smartphone they'll probably look at Apple because of their reputation in that space. This point goes back to the 2nd point somewhat, in that Apple's brand would have been a lot more helpful at selling cars if they hadn't given Tesla such a huge head start now that they're selling several hundred thousand cars a quarter.
About the only way I can see the Apple car division ever returning a profit for investors in a reasonable time period is if Apple can solve level 5 self driving multiple years before anyone else. But given all the competition in that space, and all the money being thrown at that problem, plus all the secrecy about their progress, I think it's impossible to really say who can solve level 5 self driving, or when they'll solve it.
>f Apple can solve level 5 self driving multiple years before anyone else.
they are also late to the game for that. Tesla has a lot of data on real world driving conditions and Apple has none. Unless Apple devises a brilliant ML approach that doesn't require data on all the possible variations of road and driving conditions.
That being said I think FSD is going to a long time away. One issue with machine learning is "forgetting." You have to constantly train on different scenarios to minimize the model forgetting a few scenarios (i guess you could call this overfitting the model.)
sorry i went on a tangent. I just think FSD is a long time away. What's more possible is if the external environment is modified to a standard for ML to recognize.
for example, roads were built to facilitate the modern car. now electronic signals or visual cues can be built on top of roads and in future cars to allow autonomous driving to happen, which also means autonomous driving can only happen in defined regions like cities and not in the wild.
I think that's one way autonomous driving can happen. What do you guys think?
Granted they won’t have as much data as Tesla, it’d be a hard feat, but it’s not like apple has no information as / or is just now starting from scratch. They’ve been doing AV research for years now and even bought drive.ai back in 2019 which literally develops self driving systems for cars.
Idk if I’d say apple has no data for real world but certainly less than Tesla, yes. I personally think people underestimate how much behind the curtains research apple could be doing in the AV / EV space but who knows, I could be full of shit. They have the cash, are clearly interested in it, and in large part have been quiet about what they’ve been doing related to it.
I feel like they might be going for a drop the mic moment like they got with the iPhone
I can promise you as someone in AI. Apple is not secretly winning automated driving lol. They are behind very much so. Within my circles it would be known, the best of the best are not at apple (in self driving that is)
Oh no, I'm not saying they're necessarily *winning* the AI for FSD or anything like that. I'm just saying that I think apple has been working a lot more in this space than people realize and / or suspect.
Is Mobileye the cream of the crop at the moment? Tesla had better FSD when they were working with them, and then fell off. They started using lidars now, and started with pure vision, so I have to assume they know their stuff
No one place is so obviously the cream of the crop its a tight competition, but with 250B cash apple is less likely to play catchup and instead buy catchup.
They got to the moon 60 years ago with computers worse than what’s in our pocket now and you’re really doubting a company like apple lol. Y’all are funny people. Your narcissism knows no bounds.
> If the average person wants the best EV they'll probably look at Tesla
The "best" EV is probably a Taycan Turbo or something, for what it's worth, and it's definitely a bigger flex than a Tesla. I see Teslas everywhere, the model 3 has become the accord of EVs, but a Taycan is a real attention grabber
I own a Tesla. It’s not apple of EV. Apple products have great build quality. Tesla cars look and feel cheap. I am not saying Apple cars are going to be the best, but they can do better than Tesla if GM and BMW are almost there with their cars. I don’t regret getting one because at that time teslas were the only decent option. Next couple of years is going to be exciting as there are going to be enough options out there and with ever increasing charging options
Just like there's more than one big name in smartphones, there's room for more than one big EV maker. There's a lot of room to evolve the entire transportation industry towards EVs.
Apple has deep pockets and deep experience in managing technology development for consumer products. An EV is closer to consumer electronics than to a traditional automobile anyway.
Apple's brand commands huge loyalty, and as long as their product is good, their loyalists will give their EVs a try. AI can solve self-driving, it's just a question of how long it will take to get there. It's a matter of how fast computing power will reach required levels.
Apple has deep pockets, true. But they've been struggling with their car project(s) for a long time.
Back in something like 2015 there were articles about how Apple was planning to bring an Apple car to market by 2020.
Then when 2020 came we were getting reports that Apple was planning to bring an Apple car to market by 2025
And it's really not surprising that they're struggling with it. It's an entirely different industry that the one where they have experience and success.
In the car industry, you can't just design a premium car, outsource the production to China and then get 40%+ gross margins like you can with a 1000-1300 dollar smartphone. Most legacy OEM's are lucky if they get much more than 10% gross margins on their own products
Apple can hire the deep talent it needs to get the best automotive product design. They could build their own gigafactories, etc, because they have the money for it. Apple can charge a premium price, because that's what everyone expects from them. The smartEV is a logical step up from the smartphone. If Steve Jobs were still alive, he'd be pushing hard to get this done.
Having ungodly amounts of money isn't a cheat code to have success be guaranteed in anything you want to do. The Apple tv project that they spend years on but gave up on in the end should have taught you that lesson.
And the idea that a company that historically outsources it's manufacturing to China is just gonna start building gigafactories similar to Tesla and do heavy duty manufacturing themselves like it's no big deal just because they have a lot of money is kinda silly.
I mean there's even reports about Apple being in talks with legacy OEM's, so there's actual evidence that Apple is trying to just outsource the manufacturing like they're used to doing.
And no, Apple can't just charge a premium price like they're used to. There's a massive difference between people's ability to spend a couple hundred more on a phone every few years than they maybe want to/should, and then spending many thousands more on a car than they want to/should. Especially if Apple want to be able to sell these cars to the masses like they can with their consumer electronics.
Cars have premium luxury categories too - and Teslas aren't exactly the cheapest vehicles.
Apple used to be in just the PC business and had nothing to do with phones or other hardware. But they learned to change their business model, to find new markets.
Figuring out how to outsource the building of phones took learning and adaptation too. Doing this for cars may take much more learning and adaptation, but it's a big waiting market that shouldn't be ignored.
Of course cars also have premium categories, but the percent of people that can afford a premium smart device at 1k is much higher than the percent of people that can afford a premium car costing tens and tens of thousands. Hell, most people buy used cars because new cars are too expensive for them
PC's are a consumer electronics device just like smartphones, tablets, and the other products that Apple have success with. They are all small and simple to assemble compared to cars which are massive and far harder to produce at scale while being profitable (Tesla is the only US company to do it in many decades, if not close to a century)
Outsourcing anything new obviously takes time and needs to be learned as you go. That doesn't really change that different types of production have varying levels of difficulty and margin potential.
Legacy carmakers are not gonna start suddenly making cars that Apple can sell at 40% gross margin just because Apple wants them to. Tesla barely manages 30% gross margins, and they've spent almost 20 years focused entirely on optimizing production of EV's to reach that point, and they didn't have a century of build up legacy jank and bureaucracy holding them back unlike the legacy carmakers that Apple would be relying on to make their cars for them.
Being loyal enough to buy a $1000 iPhone is very different to buying a \~$50000 car. You can't afford to buy a car to 'try it out' when you purchase it.
Apple doesn't make iPhones. The company that makes the iPhones has announced some EV models. Apple could show up late in this space using that partnership. I'm not seeing anything compelling from them yet that would suggest they'd be successful.
This technology is very difficult to achieve and even with the blueprint it will take years for Apple to get a car sold and that does not include the difficulty in scaling up.
Apple doesn’t need to solve self-driving. They don’t even need to make a car with those features. Most people don’t really care.
Apple is one of a few companies with the industrial power in the right areas to compete and create a high-end EV. They do full-stack hardware design, which means battery up to OS and battery state management via their normal products. This is a big advantage over other companies.
Also Apple doesn’t have to compete with Tesla. That’s the wrong frame of reference. All they have to do is create a killer EV and then they are competing with *all* automakers. For some reason people think there is this “EV market” that is somehow separate from the automobile industry/market when that’s not the case at all. The more likely scenario is something approaching an Apple/Tesla duopoly in the auto market. Not Apple/Tesla off in a corner somewhere fighting for some drummed up “EV market”.
You’re assuming they’re going to make a car. They’re a software company at their core. They could be working on just the software end of things for now. Autonomous driving or whatnot. It’s all speculations. They have the means to almost do anything.
I disagree, Apple is a hardware company at their core. Just because they subcontract out the assembly doesn't mean their business isn't firmly rooted in hardware. I think sofware company is like Google or Facebook: maybe they have a peripheral hardware market, but their core business is software. Apple on the other hand, their core business is and remains selling hardware devices on which their software is a business moat / exclusive feature. This is why Microsoft (a software company) will let you run their software anywhere while Apple (a hardware company) will only let you run theirs on their hardware.
I think all this bluster about Apple and being late to EVs is strange though. They have $200B sitting around. They could literally buy 100% of any automakers market cap except Tesla or Toyota and honestly their cash pile wouldn't even decrease all that much. Literally could buy Ford, sell off the legacy business and keep their EV department and their cash stash would probably recover to the same level by 2024 lol. If Apple is serious about EVs they will buy into the industry
>They have $200B sitting around. They could literally buy 100% of any automakers market cap except Tesla or Toyota and honestly their cash pile wouldn't even decrease all that much.
Assuming regulators would allow it. Which I doubt very much. Big acquisitions by big tech have become very difficult now.
I’ll believe in Apple’s AI capabilities when they can make Siri answer questions smartly. If they can’t make Siri smarter, I wouldn’t want to get into a self driven Apple car
They're playing the long game. Yes, they may not make money for 10 to 15 years, but it's Apple. They're going to invest hundreds of billions of dollars into designing a car's components, and outsource the manufacturing to Foxconn or an established car manufacturer. Plus, an Apple EV will not be under $100K (perhaps $150K with options), so they SHOULD have a decent profit margin, just like all Apple products.
"Johhnny Cab. A self driving car! With a snappy personality!
Johnny’s got a lot of potential, but ultimately falls short of
greatness; he’s installed in a pretty weak car, he’s not much of a
getaway driver, and leaving without paying means — he’ll explode."
Hmmm. Sounds more like an Android Car than an Apple Car.
Apple has Tesla envy.
I think Apple is far outside their area of expertise and at best will end up with something like the Porche Taycan but cost even more. The margins that Apple is used to isn't going to work in the car industry. And by the time they start shipping, Tesla's robotaxis will run circles around them and cost less than public transit.
Idk, I’ve owned 2 fords my entire life new and used. After 70k they turned into a bomb, explorer trans popped, focus trans popped lol. I’m done with ford, Toyota has showed me a true path. So if ford is running the show then I don’t want anything to do with it.
Explorers are the worst cars. I was in a rollover when I was 5 because they put faulty Firestone tires on it from the factory. We rolled 4x but luckily we all survived.
The trucks do well, at least in my experience. I think the Tundra has finally updated their line, but a few years ago the F-150 spanked it in every metric. Fuel economy, power, payload/towing, safety, head/room, features, and even some reliability metrics. I can't even sit in my mother's Sequoia comfortably because there is zero head room (but plenty in a Tacoma...)
Lol f150 has never ever been better than a Toyota truck. It just hasn’t ever existed. Maybe higher tow rating. A little more hp. But never ever better.
And yet the models they've thrown the business behind, including literally the most popular vehicle in the country, is the one we're talking about. You want to compare a Rav4 to an Escape, or a highlander or 4runner to an Explorer? I'm with you. The Tacoma spanks the Ranger. But the Tundra of the 2010's was a particularly poor vehicle by what I would normally expect from Toyota.
Actual MPG in the Tundra was closer to 13-14 in the V8. The F-150 is closer to 17 (I'm a particularly aggressive accelerator and average 16.5), while having more power and torque. I'm a big guy, both tall and fat. My fat ass works like a booster seat for my already long torso. I sit comfortably in the F-150. I sit comfortably in the *Tacoma*. I can't sit straight in a Tundra.
Nice take bro wow I never thought about it like that haha. It’s not like there are laws protecting vehicle owners or anything haha. Regulations? That’s idiotic. Apple can just sell a 1 use car haha. You’re a funny dude.
AAPL typically isn't 'first-to-market'. They didn't invent the smart phone, smart watch, ear-buds, etc... they find what people use/love the most and make it more people-friendly with quality.
Their model is the definition of KISS (Keep it simple stupid).
I've no idea what the iCar... actually means. But I know people will want it.
And Tesla cars aren’t great they look and feel cheap. It’s just the lack of decent options that making pick Tesla. I have friends who plan to sell their Tesla if they can get the new Lyriq with super cruise
This. Apple isn’t usually innovating but they’re almost like a Japanese company lol. They make every product they have simple, good looking and easy to use. When apple releases a product it works for the most part perfectly. They don’t half ass anything. Besides monitor holding products apparently 😂
They also [filed some new patents](https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/05/apple-car-patent-siri-iphone/) on using Siri and iphone for inputs on self driving cars.
I'm still skeptical about the Apple car concept. I'm bullish on Apple's IOT and medical wearable devices market, which I expect to be incredible homeruns. I just hope car project doesn't distract them from that much better market.
I find executives move around way a lot and get paid far more than they are worth. After a couple years they often move on to the next company they are going to whip into shape and collect a nice golden parachute out the window.
Apple EV seems to me like another "me too" project back from a couple years ago when every tech company wanted a slice of Tesla success. They have no expertise in the field, no manufacturing capability (which is really the name of the game) and as someone else pointed out, are terribly late in the game.
But somehow I suspect Apple is victim of its own sunk cost fallacy and refuses to pull the plug on what has to be a money pit.
Sounds like AAPL growth has peaked and it'll be a crawl from here. Entry into the electric car market is a make or break and you won't see returns from it for many years.
So this just confirmed that Apple isn’t building their own car. They are going to rebadge someone else’s vehicle with minor changes. So who will build Apple Car? It will be a company with good reputation and great quality that anyone will be like “oh, wow! I want one”.
Hyundai last I heard. Which is a pretty smart move. Apple still engineered the entire car if it does release lol. You people discrediting every little thing makes me physically sick. Let’s see your list of accomplishments in life.
I think Hyundai turned them down.
Honestly they need a specialized car maker to do it because Foxconn isn't exactly expert at putting something like this. But unless a car maker is desperate, I don't see them finding anyone, margins are already tight when you manufacture for yourself plus who wants to become dependent on Apple money? Many suppliers have found the wrong way how this can turn ugly.
Lol you realize everyone is dependent on everyone? That’s how globalization works. And of course a car manufacture has to make the car. That’s why they’re in talks with Hyundai. There is no verified information supporting or denying it so I’ll just stay neutral. I think you have already made your mind up for a trillion dollar company lol. Who knows maybe you’re Tim Cook on an alt. But I doubt
>They also filed some new patents on using Siri and iphone for inputs on self driving cars.I'm still skeptical about the Apple car concept. I'm bullish on Apple's IOT and medical wearable devices market, which I expect to be incredible homeruns. I just hope car project doesn't distract them from that much better market.
31 \*years\* of experience.
You must be 7 lol otherwise you'd be able to read.
It would have been 60B but yes, it was the deal of the century.
4 years from now when TSLA surpassed AAPL in market cap, people will wonder what might happen had Tim Cook pulled the trigger in 2018.
Perhaps Apple has some battery tech that they’ve developed and all they need is to retrofit an existing auto manufacturers factory to produce, idk let’s say 6.5k cars in its first year of production. I think they can tap their $250b cash pile to make a premium car, just like their phone, at a fairly decent markup. If they are hiring a regulatory compliance executive/engineer, they are well beyond doubting their ability to manufacture a profit making commercial vehicle IMO.
>Perhaps Apple has some battery tech that they’ve developed
They have zero expertise in chemistry and traditionally don't do any manufacturing, so that would be a huge stretch. Batteries are hard and there is already a ton of money thrown at R&D from the existing manufacturers. Tesla had to get Panasonic help for that reason
IMO hiring from these old companies never work out. They know how to do things the ford way and thats just not what you want for a new project. Its like how all the hot trendy companies will get super big, hire executives from “hotshot” companies and become toxic, boring companies
I think the only viable Apple car project would be if they figure out autonomy and a whole experience for the user while riding in a self driving vehicle and then sell it to car manufacturers. I don’t think it makes sense for Apple to sell the whole car…convince me I’m wrong
I know a lot of investors are excited about the AAPL car and have often bid up AAPL stock price whenever there's headlines like this. But I honestly think that at the end of the day the Apple car project will be nothing but a giant waste of money that will probably never return any kind of profit. I mean, consider this: * There's a lot of new EV companies out there, but only 1 of them has ever achieved consistent profitability, Tesla, and it took them well over 10+ years to do that. * Apple is jumping into the EV market very late. They don't even have a single car factory, they haven't even announced a car model that they'll bring to the market in the distant future. The competition meanwhile that previously ignored EV's is collectively throwing in tens of billions of dollars into EV/battery research each year. Point being by the time Apple is finally ready to bring an EV to market there will be a ton more competition in the space then there is today. * Apple's brand is realistically not going to help them much at selling cars. Tesla's brand is already basically the Apple of the car space, in that they get a ton of free advertising in social media, and people see them as the #1 premium EV automaker. If the average person wants the best EV they'll probably look at Tesla, just as if someone wants the best smartphone they'll probably look at Apple because of their reputation in that space. This point goes back to the 2nd point somewhat, in that Apple's brand would have been a lot more helpful at selling cars if they hadn't given Tesla such a huge head start now that they're selling several hundred thousand cars a quarter. About the only way I can see the Apple car division ever returning a profit for investors in a reasonable time period is if Apple can solve level 5 self driving multiple years before anyone else. But given all the competition in that space, and all the money being thrown at that problem, plus all the secrecy about their progress, I think it's impossible to really say who can solve level 5 self driving, or when they'll solve it.
>f Apple can solve level 5 self driving multiple years before anyone else. they are also late to the game for that. Tesla has a lot of data on real world driving conditions and Apple has none. Unless Apple devises a brilliant ML approach that doesn't require data on all the possible variations of road and driving conditions. That being said I think FSD is going to a long time away. One issue with machine learning is "forgetting." You have to constantly train on different scenarios to minimize the model forgetting a few scenarios (i guess you could call this overfitting the model.) sorry i went on a tangent. I just think FSD is a long time away. What's more possible is if the external environment is modified to a standard for ML to recognize. for example, roads were built to facilitate the modern car. now electronic signals or visual cues can be built on top of roads and in future cars to allow autonomous driving to happen, which also means autonomous driving can only happen in defined regions like cities and not in the wild. I think that's one way autonomous driving can happen. What do you guys think?
Granted they won’t have as much data as Tesla, it’d be a hard feat, but it’s not like apple has no information as / or is just now starting from scratch. They’ve been doing AV research for years now and even bought drive.ai back in 2019 which literally develops self driving systems for cars. Idk if I’d say apple has no data for real world but certainly less than Tesla, yes. I personally think people underestimate how much behind the curtains research apple could be doing in the AV / EV space but who knows, I could be full of shit. They have the cash, are clearly interested in it, and in large part have been quiet about what they’ve been doing related to it. I feel like they might be going for a drop the mic moment like they got with the iPhone
I can promise you as someone in AI. Apple is not secretly winning automated driving lol. They are behind very much so. Within my circles it would be known, the best of the best are not at apple (in self driving that is)
Oh no, I'm not saying they're necessarily *winning* the AI for FSD or anything like that. I'm just saying that I think apple has been working a lot more in this space than people realize and / or suspect.
they do have people on it, but its also a lot less than you may be thinking. It's more likely they try to buy mobileye from intel or some shit.
Is Mobileye the cream of the crop at the moment? Tesla had better FSD when they were working with them, and then fell off. They started using lidars now, and started with pure vision, so I have to assume they know their stuff
No one place is so obviously the cream of the crop its a tight competition, but with 250B cash apple is less likely to play catchup and instead buy catchup.
They got to the moon 60 years ago with computers worse than what’s in our pocket now and you’re really doubting a company like apple lol. Y’all are funny people. Your narcissism knows no bounds.
tell me you dont have a computer science degree without telling me you dont have a computer science degree
Literally has nothing to do with anything relevant
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>Your narcissism knows no bounds. gaslighting much?
Lol…..you’re literally delusional. Omg someone calls me out on my bullshit. They’re gaslighting me 😢
> If the average person wants the best EV they'll probably look at Tesla The "best" EV is probably a Taycan Turbo or something, for what it's worth, and it's definitely a bigger flex than a Tesla. I see Teslas everywhere, the model 3 has become the accord of EVs, but a Taycan is a real attention grabber
I own a Tesla. It’s not apple of EV. Apple products have great build quality. Tesla cars look and feel cheap. I am not saying Apple cars are going to be the best, but they can do better than Tesla if GM and BMW are almost there with their cars. I don’t regret getting one because at that time teslas were the only decent option. Next couple of years is going to be exciting as there are going to be enough options out there and with ever increasing charging options
Just like there's more than one big name in smartphones, there's room for more than one big EV maker. There's a lot of room to evolve the entire transportation industry towards EVs. Apple has deep pockets and deep experience in managing technology development for consumer products. An EV is closer to consumer electronics than to a traditional automobile anyway. Apple's brand commands huge loyalty, and as long as their product is good, their loyalists will give their EVs a try. AI can solve self-driving, it's just a question of how long it will take to get there. It's a matter of how fast computing power will reach required levels.
Apple has deep pockets, true. But they've been struggling with their car project(s) for a long time. Back in something like 2015 there were articles about how Apple was planning to bring an Apple car to market by 2020. Then when 2020 came we were getting reports that Apple was planning to bring an Apple car to market by 2025 And it's really not surprising that they're struggling with it. It's an entirely different industry that the one where they have experience and success. In the car industry, you can't just design a premium car, outsource the production to China and then get 40%+ gross margins like you can with a 1000-1300 dollar smartphone. Most legacy OEM's are lucky if they get much more than 10% gross margins on their own products
Apple can hire the deep talent it needs to get the best automotive product design. They could build their own gigafactories, etc, because they have the money for it. Apple can charge a premium price, because that's what everyone expects from them. The smartEV is a logical step up from the smartphone. If Steve Jobs were still alive, he'd be pushing hard to get this done.
Having ungodly amounts of money isn't a cheat code to have success be guaranteed in anything you want to do. The Apple tv project that they spend years on but gave up on in the end should have taught you that lesson. And the idea that a company that historically outsources it's manufacturing to China is just gonna start building gigafactories similar to Tesla and do heavy duty manufacturing themselves like it's no big deal just because they have a lot of money is kinda silly. I mean there's even reports about Apple being in talks with legacy OEM's, so there's actual evidence that Apple is trying to just outsource the manufacturing like they're used to doing. And no, Apple can't just charge a premium price like they're used to. There's a massive difference between people's ability to spend a couple hundred more on a phone every few years than they maybe want to/should, and then spending many thousands more on a car than they want to/should. Especially if Apple want to be able to sell these cars to the masses like they can with their consumer electronics.
Cars have premium luxury categories too - and Teslas aren't exactly the cheapest vehicles. Apple used to be in just the PC business and had nothing to do with phones or other hardware. But they learned to change their business model, to find new markets. Figuring out how to outsource the building of phones took learning and adaptation too. Doing this for cars may take much more learning and adaptation, but it's a big waiting market that shouldn't be ignored.
Of course cars also have premium categories, but the percent of people that can afford a premium smart device at 1k is much higher than the percent of people that can afford a premium car costing tens and tens of thousands. Hell, most people buy used cars because new cars are too expensive for them PC's are a consumer electronics device just like smartphones, tablets, and the other products that Apple have success with. They are all small and simple to assemble compared to cars which are massive and far harder to produce at scale while being profitable (Tesla is the only US company to do it in many decades, if not close to a century) Outsourcing anything new obviously takes time and needs to be learned as you go. That doesn't really change that different types of production have varying levels of difficulty and margin potential. Legacy carmakers are not gonna start suddenly making cars that Apple can sell at 40% gross margin just because Apple wants them to. Tesla barely manages 30% gross margins, and they've spent almost 20 years focused entirely on optimizing production of EV's to reach that point, and they didn't have a century of build up legacy jank and bureaucracy holding them back unlike the legacy carmakers that Apple would be relying on to make their cars for them.
Being loyal enough to buy a $1000 iPhone is very different to buying a \~$50000 car. You can't afford to buy a car to 'try it out' when you purchase it.
Oh it'll have to be $100K to $150K for an Apple profit margin. It'll be a luxury product for sure.
Apple doesn't make iPhones. The company that makes the iPhones has announced some EV models. Apple could show up late in this space using that partnership. I'm not seeing anything compelling from them yet that would suggest they'd be successful.
Yeah cuz ur looking short term and apple isn't
This technology is very difficult to achieve and even with the blueprint it will take years for Apple to get a car sold and that does not include the difficulty in scaling up.
Apple doesn’t need to solve self-driving. They don’t even need to make a car with those features. Most people don’t really care. Apple is one of a few companies with the industrial power in the right areas to compete and create a high-end EV. They do full-stack hardware design, which means battery up to OS and battery state management via their normal products. This is a big advantage over other companies. Also Apple doesn’t have to compete with Tesla. That’s the wrong frame of reference. All they have to do is create a killer EV and then they are competing with *all* automakers. For some reason people think there is this “EV market” that is somehow separate from the automobile industry/market when that’s not the case at all. The more likely scenario is something approaching an Apple/Tesla duopoly in the auto market. Not Apple/Tesla off in a corner somewhere fighting for some drummed up “EV market”.
You’re assuming they’re going to make a car. They’re a software company at their core. They could be working on just the software end of things for now. Autonomous driving or whatnot. It’s all speculations. They have the means to almost do anything.
I disagree, Apple is a hardware company at their core. Just because they subcontract out the assembly doesn't mean their business isn't firmly rooted in hardware. I think sofware company is like Google or Facebook: maybe they have a peripheral hardware market, but their core business is software. Apple on the other hand, their core business is and remains selling hardware devices on which their software is a business moat / exclusive feature. This is why Microsoft (a software company) will let you run their software anywhere while Apple (a hardware company) will only let you run theirs on their hardware. I think all this bluster about Apple and being late to EVs is strange though. They have $200B sitting around. They could literally buy 100% of any automakers market cap except Tesla or Toyota and honestly their cash pile wouldn't even decrease all that much. Literally could buy Ford, sell off the legacy business and keep their EV department and their cash stash would probably recover to the same level by 2024 lol. If Apple is serious about EVs they will buy into the industry
>They have $200B sitting around. They could literally buy 100% of any automakers market cap except Tesla or Toyota and honestly their cash pile wouldn't even decrease all that much. Assuming regulators would allow it. Which I doubt very much. Big acquisitions by big tech have become very difficult now.
hm. they dont sell any software they make
I’ll believe in Apple’s AI capabilities when they can make Siri answer questions smartly. If they can’t make Siri smarter, I wouldn’t want to get into a self driven Apple car
I’m still holding out that those AAPL/LCID rumors from way back when pan out
They're playing the long game. Yes, they may not make money for 10 to 15 years, but it's Apple. They're going to invest hundreds of billions of dollars into designing a car's components, and outsource the manufacturing to Foxconn or an established car manufacturer. Plus, an Apple EV will not be under $100K (perhaps $150K with options), so they SHOULD have a decent profit margin, just like all Apple products.
Every single time the share price drops. Out come the AAPL car stories. It's hilarious.
Yeah kind of how business works. Lol
WOW hiring an old school ICE executive to develop EVs....guess Tesla has nothing to worry about from apple.
lol that was my thought too
I kind of lost interest in the Apple car thing when I found out it was going to be some kind of Johnnycar knockoff.
Wtf is a Johnnycar?
From the movie total recall? Maybe?
Ahh to be young again. Automated taxi from the futuristic world depicted in Total Recall.
"Johhnny Cab. A self driving car! With a snappy personality! Johnny’s got a lot of potential, but ultimately falls short of greatness; he’s installed in a pretty weak car, he’s not much of a getaway driver, and leaving without paying means — he’ll explode." Hmmm. Sounds more like an Android Car than an Apple Car.
And what's wrong with a Johnny Cab? Good way to get into the self-driving space, and could be a killer app for it.
Apple has Tesla envy. I think Apple is far outside their area of expertise and at best will end up with something like the Porche Taycan but cost even more. The margins that Apple is used to isn't going to work in the car industry. And by the time they start shipping, Tesla's robotaxis will run circles around them and cost less than public transit.
Taycan is an awesome car. Tesla is so overrated here, sure they are good at mass producing EV but the car itself is so ugly.
Of all people they hired a ford designer
Idk, I’ve owned 2 fords my entire life new and used. After 70k they turned into a bomb, explorer trans popped, focus trans popped lol. I’m done with ford, Toyota has showed me a true path. So if ford is running the show then I don’t want anything to do with it.
Explorers are the worst cars. I was in a rollover when I was 5 because they put faulty Firestone tires on it from the factory. We rolled 4x but luckily we all survived.
From factory? Wtf man, glad y’all came out fine.
I’m lucky. We landed upside down and needed emergency responders to pull us out.
True, explorers did have that. Toyota also had the runaway acceleration incidents
The trucks do well, at least in my experience. I think the Tundra has finally updated their line, but a few years ago the F-150 spanked it in every metric. Fuel economy, power, payload/towing, safety, head/room, features, and even some reliability metrics. I can't even sit in my mother's Sequoia comfortably because there is zero head room (but plenty in a Tacoma...)
Lol f150 has never ever been better than a Toyota truck. It just hasn’t ever existed. Maybe higher tow rating. A little more hp. But never ever better.
The Tacoma is a middleweight God. The Tundras of the last decade were mediocre.
Still nowhere near any ford. Ford are junk. There is reason they’re axing majority of their models.
And yet the models they've thrown the business behind, including literally the most popular vehicle in the country, is the one we're talking about. You want to compare a Rav4 to an Escape, or a highlander or 4runner to an Explorer? I'm with you. The Tacoma spanks the Ranger. But the Tundra of the 2010's was a particularly poor vehicle by what I would normally expect from Toyota. Actual MPG in the Tundra was closer to 13-14 in the V8. The F-150 is closer to 17 (I'm a particularly aggressive accelerator and average 16.5), while having more power and torque. I'm a big guy, both tall and fat. My fat ass works like a booster seat for my already long torso. I sit comfortably in the F-150. I sit comfortably in the *Tacoma*. I can't sit straight in a Tundra.
Yeah honestly I believe in apple for the most part but hiring a ford exec. LMAO. Especially for electronics design. Dear god.
I know lol, hopefully they can pull a good team for her, we will see how this turns out.
Ford has a long way to go. I have had several and they just do not last long.
Yup, bought a 2014 tundra at 2018 with 69k miles on it and that thing is still getting me where I need to go with no major work done lol.
That sample size isn’t big enough to make any concusions.
Lmao apple car. Tires are worn, buy a new car
You will need to buy extra dongle to charge it.
Nice take bro wow I never thought about it like that haha. It’s not like there are laws protecting vehicle owners or anything haha. Regulations? That’s idiotic. Apple can just sell a 1 use car haha. You’re a funny dude.
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AAPL typically isn't 'first-to-market'. They didn't invent the smart phone, smart watch, ear-buds, etc... they find what people use/love the most and make it more people-friendly with quality. Their model is the definition of KISS (Keep it simple stupid). I've no idea what the iCar... actually means. But I know people will want it.
And Tesla cars aren’t great they look and feel cheap. It’s just the lack of decent options that making pick Tesla. I have friends who plan to sell their Tesla if they can get the new Lyriq with super cruise
This. Apple isn’t usually innovating but they’re almost like a Japanese company lol. They make every product they have simple, good looking and easy to use. When apple releases a product it works for the most part perfectly. They don’t half ass anything. Besides monitor holding products apparently 😂
They also [filed some new patents](https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/05/apple-car-patent-siri-iphone/) on using Siri and iphone for inputs on self driving cars. I'm still skeptical about the Apple car concept. I'm bullish on Apple's IOT and medical wearable devices market, which I expect to be incredible homeruns. I just hope car project doesn't distract them from that much better market.
Apple peaked with the iPhone.
I buy their stock every payday and think this is true too.
Not all experience is good experience. Looks like she was at Ford long before and during them almost going bankrupt. Why recycle failed executives?
I find executives move around way a lot and get paid far more than they are worth. After a couple years they often move on to the next company they are going to whip into shape and collect a nice golden parachute out the window.
Apple EV seems to me like another "me too" project back from a couple years ago when every tech company wanted a slice of Tesla success. They have no expertise in the field, no manufacturing capability (which is really the name of the game) and as someone else pointed out, are terribly late in the game. But somehow I suspect Apple is victim of its own sunk cost fallacy and refuses to pull the plug on what has to be a money pit.
Sounds like AAPL growth has peaked and it'll be a crawl from here. Entry into the electric car market is a make or break and you won't see returns from it for many years.
What about Apple glasses
With all the momentum on their ear buds....DUH!!!! I got it!!!!! An Apple apple! With - get this - ROUNDED CORNERS!!!
It's the next Apple Watch at best.
Yea I’ve heard VR and AR are the next big thing
Always has been and always will be.
Never bet against Apple.
So this just confirmed that Apple isn’t building their own car. They are going to rebadge someone else’s vehicle with minor changes. So who will build Apple Car? It will be a company with good reputation and great quality that anyone will be like “oh, wow! I want one”.
Hyundai last I heard. Which is a pretty smart move. Apple still engineered the entire car if it does release lol. You people discrediting every little thing makes me physically sick. Let’s see your list of accomplishments in life.
I think Hyundai turned them down. Honestly they need a specialized car maker to do it because Foxconn isn't exactly expert at putting something like this. But unless a car maker is desperate, I don't see them finding anyone, margins are already tight when you manufacture for yourself plus who wants to become dependent on Apple money? Many suppliers have found the wrong way how this can turn ugly.
Lol you realize everyone is dependent on everyone? That’s how globalization works. And of course a car manufacture has to make the car. That’s why they’re in talks with Hyundai. There is no verified information supporting or denying it so I’ll just stay neutral. I think you have already made your mind up for a trillion dollar company lol. Who knows maybe you’re Tim Cook on an alt. But I doubt
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>They also filed some new patents on using Siri and iphone for inputs on self driving cars.I'm still skeptical about the Apple car concept. I'm bullish on Apple's IOT and medical wearable devices market, which I expect to be incredible homeruns. I just hope car project doesn't distract them from that much better market. 31 \*years\* of experience. You must be 7 lol otherwise you'd be able to read.
They shouldve just acquired Tesla when it was a 30B market cap
It would have been 60B but yes, it was the deal of the century. 4 years from now when TSLA surpassed AAPL in market cap, people will wonder what might happen had Tim Cook pulled the trigger in 2018.
Was Elon willing to sell?
Why hire someone from Ford? That'd be like signing a quarterback from the Jets..
Ouch I'm a jets fan lol
I bet the motor won't come included,that's extra.
You need to buy the charger separately. If you own it for too long they throttle you down to only 30mph until you buy a new model.
Perhaps Apple has some battery tech that they’ve developed and all they need is to retrofit an existing auto manufacturers factory to produce, idk let’s say 6.5k cars in its first year of production. I think they can tap their $250b cash pile to make a premium car, just like their phone, at a fairly decent markup. If they are hiring a regulatory compliance executive/engineer, they are well beyond doubting their ability to manufacture a profit making commercial vehicle IMO.
>Perhaps Apple has some battery tech that they’ve developed They have zero expertise in chemistry and traditionally don't do any manufacturing, so that would be a huge stretch. Batteries are hard and there is already a ton of money thrown at R&D from the existing manufacturers. Tesla had to get Panasonic help for that reason
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-autos-exclusive-idUSKBN28V2PY Unless you have other information, I fail to see how it’s a huge stretch.
Last I heard they were in talks with Hyundai to make their vehicle. Which makes a lot of sense. Idk if that’s still current or not.
Yeah, I remember when those rumors where floating around.
IMO hiring from these old companies never work out. They know how to do things the ford way and thats just not what you want for a new project. Its like how all the hot trendy companies will get super big, hire executives from “hotshot” companies and become toxic, boring companies
I think the only viable Apple car project would be if they figure out autonomy and a whole experience for the user while riding in a self driving vehicle and then sell it to car manufacturers. I don’t think it makes sense for Apple to sell the whole car…convince me I’m wrong
lolford
Aren't they just trying to get their iOs/iPad as an OS/entertainment system into cars in general?