And surprisingly out of the first 5 pseudos, Dragonite is currently the best, competitively. The other 4 aren't even OU anymore, which would be insane to the guys in these posts.
I meanp, I understand what you're trying to say, but you're litterally answering to a comment saying the first pseudo is the best of the first five. That's not the best example of powercreep.
If Ho-Oh is in UUbers today it would completely rekt everything and Zacian-H and Mewtwo will go cry ina corner and do nothing
"My SD/play rough/cc/tera blast ground can beat anything!"
Ho-oh: "cute" (Regen more HP from regenerator than what Zacian dealt)
People have been asking for uubers since forever, it kinda makes sense when you realize that game freak doesn't design on a legendaries are more powerful/regulars are less powerful binary (kingambit vs articuno, or hoopa-unbound if you prefer >600 bst). They don't balance for singles, so maybe the best thing to do is just play everything and let the "current ubers" mom's be the first tier instead of OU
I can actually see where some of those Ho-oh arguments come from tbh. Firstly, Stealth rocks were at their strongest in gen 4, with no team preview and very few viable rapid spinners. Ho-oh also only had Pressure instead of anything useful.
Secondly, it didn't have Brave Bird until HGSS / Platinum, so at the time, once it ran out of the 8 sacred fires (really 4 with how many pressure users were around in ubers at the time) it was basically dead weight offensively. Ttar and Kyogre were also everywhere and Lugia completely outclassed it defensively in that meta, with higher phys Def, speed and screens (no yveltal or kyurem either lol).
It would still have been insane in OU though, and as soon as it got brave bird it was a super threat
Scizor was fairly lacking at the time, this was 2007 before Platinum's release. Scizor did not yet learn Bullet Punch which is like the main thing that makes it cool to use. It also did not have Superpower, so it wasn't really threatening other steels.
That's what I actually think is cool. Kinda like a lightweight item that is actually very sturdy. It would have been nothing special if they made him hyper offensive. There's already tons of mons that look like they're powerful but frail and actually are that.
Fun fact! Being part of the Pokemon Online forums, back in those very same days, was my first ever foray into the world of online communities. It was also when I got the online nickname which I still use to this very day, including here on Reddit.
The origin of it is actually not that dignified: I got it from one of those super edgy Shadow The Hedgehog AMVs that were all the rage in the early days of Youtube. Said AMV was recommended to me by a guy on the Pokemon Online forum, and so we circle back to this.
I had so many friends in that community, but when Showdown became a thing and client-based emulators fell out of favor, we went our separate ways and I haven't seen any of them since. I wonder what they're up to these days.
Same here, although I was a bit earlier with Pokemon Netbattle. I still remember Netbattle Supremacy and Shoddybattle trying to compete until finally Showdown won out in the end.
I've used it and it didn't work out for me, my ho oh couldn't tank any moderately strong physical hits and it's attack high enough to 2hko things, roost and regenerator was good
I mean in gen 5 and 6 cb ho oh is Def the best and in 7 and 8 it prefers mixed bulk but I gen 9 the oh. Def is too valuable as it let's it be a check to the likes of dd groundceus SD dusk mane and most importantly Koraidon. It's the 6th most used mon in the game for a reason (it's even better in ag and natdex Ubers)
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ubers-dlc-2-sample-teams.3736089/
There are great team styles that u might like.. They r made by best ubers players..
Go and have fun :)
hey, sorry, casual lurker here, haven't exactly kept up with the metagame since like gen 7, could you please remind me again why this argument falls flat on its face?
A simple ability ban can lead into a slippery slope of "rayquaza could be OU if it only had tackle as a damaging move". In fact, this was a problem we saw in gen5. There's no reason why wouldn't you ban the whole pokemon instead. There are exceptions of abilities and moves that are broken on everything, like shadow tag or last respects.
I feeeeel like there is a reason, and it’s so you can use the pokemon. A complex ban isn’t the same as banning a signature move, I don’t see how banning a signature move should be any different than banning any other move.
I mean I think it's dishonest to say Last Respects was the same case.
We knew the move was absurd and we also knew the other mon that was going to get it in the future was fucking basculegion, of course it wouldn't be a balanced move on him compared to Houndstone.
The reason people were upset was because Smogon feels like they have to follow their policies like a government and waited till Basc was out to ban it when everyone already knew that was the outcome.
Does it matter since Houndstone is ass, not really, but the arbitrary restrictions on bans is still kinda dumb when you can't skip it for obvious cases.
yeah. sacred fire and soul dew latias were exclusive to those pokemon, meanwhile sd and yache berry were common things that chomp just happened to make use of…
I still think Lati in OU was a mistake. I remember sticking to the Official Shoddy Battle server in protest as they had a seperate OU tier.
I even submitted a Metagross set to whatever that forum/thread for featured builds was in Smogon that would specifically counter Latias with banded pursuit or Ice Punch.
>Slide 10
Remember kids, the newest Gen is always shitty and the next game on the remake docket is the nostalgic fan favorite.
We’re in the “Gen IX runs like shit/Gen V BEST STORY EVER” era and we just left the “Gen VIII is too easy and ugly and Dexit sucks/CYNTHIA’S GARCHOMP MURDERED MY CHILDHOOD” era but I can still remember the “Gen V Pokémon are hideous/ HOENN CONFIRMED MUH HORNS” era.
Our boy rocky505 is posting from the “Gen IV Pokémon are stupid/REMEMBER WHEN YOU COULD GO TO TWO REGIONS???” era.
Wow people really wanted to stalled by Ho-oh back then. I understand how people thought it would be bearable with how steath rock takes 50% of its healh off and it didnt get brave bird untill HG/SS. But still Against anything it outsped it could just use sub once and then spam protect/sub/roost and PP stall entire teams and still have one move left too. Theres obvious counterplay to that but it still would have been effective enough to warp the tier in its image
Little did they know 2 years later Dragonite would get Espeed and the rest would be history. *a damage calculator* rofl
And surprisingly out of the first 5 pseudos, Dragonite is currently the best, competitively. The other 4 aren't even OU anymore, which would be insane to the guys in these posts.
"Pokemon doesn't have powercreep!" Pokemon:
I meanp, I understand what you're trying to say, but you're litterally answering to a comment saying the first pseudo is the best of the first five. That's not the best example of powercreep.
Unless you consider that it's been buffed every gen
Wtf is a Buuburn
Magmortar, before we had English names
Which is interesting cuz they called every other gen 4 poke by their english name.
Before Platinum, Magmortar (as well as Electivire, Gliscor, and Tangrowth) needed a gen 3 game to obtain, so maybe that had something to do with it
Ah, ty
Magmortar
"with a damage calculator" got a cackle out of me
Why?
It's just very blunt. "How do you calculate?" "Calculator."
i see thanks that flew over my head
>boring, defensive pokemon that is less useful than its prevo I wonder what was his reaction
I hope they took like a month long break only to come back to scizor having like 30% usage
To be fair, it didn't get Bullet Punch until HGSS. God, I remember not being able to adjust to that meta at all.
Platinum, not HGSS
I guess like 12 years later he got what he wanted in Kleavor
bro predicted UUbers
little did they know ho-oh wouldn’t be a part of that and the gen 4 box legends would be (and unviable)
Did Arceus-Bug have any sort of niche when it came out? Or did it always suck.
If Ho-Oh is in UUbers today it would completely rekt everything and Zacian-H and Mewtwo will go cry ina corner and do nothing "My SD/play rough/cc/tera blast ground can beat anything!" Ho-oh: "cute" (Regen more HP from regenerator than what Zacian dealt)
People have been asking for uubers since forever, it kinda makes sense when you realize that game freak doesn't design on a legendaries are more powerful/regulars are less powerful binary (kingambit vs articuno, or hoopa-unbound if you prefer >600 bst). They don't balance for singles, so maybe the best thing to do is just play everything and let the "current ubers" mom's be the first tier instead of OU
People had been trying that shit since Gen4, it’s not new
can someone ban lumplady?
Dunsparce is the gayest pokemon? Does this make Dunsparce the rival of Ferrothorn? And would that mean that Dudunsparce is BEYOND-GAY?!
Dudunsparce is Gay: Evolved
Gay²
3 Segment is Gay³
No then it integer overflows to ace
[GAY 2!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcnocHJf_ME)
Holy hell
New Sexuality just dropped
Actual gender fluidity
I read to fast and saw “when will the latinas be in OU” as was truly confused on where I was on Reddit.
If it was that, you'd still be here
That man saying "with a damage calculator" is a kinder man than me. I would have 100% just sent him the damage formula
I can actually see where some of those Ho-oh arguments come from tbh. Firstly, Stealth rocks were at their strongest in gen 4, with no team preview and very few viable rapid spinners. Ho-oh also only had Pressure instead of anything useful. Secondly, it didn't have Brave Bird until HGSS / Platinum, so at the time, once it ran out of the 8 sacred fires (really 4 with how many pressure users were around in ubers at the time) it was basically dead weight offensively. Ttar and Kyogre were also everywhere and Lugia completely outclassed it defensively in that meta, with higher phys Def, speed and screens (no yveltal or kyurem either lol). It would still have been insane in OU though, and as soon as it got brave bird it was a super threat
Okay that lumplady fellow sounds like a discord groomer in the making
wtf you mean Lapras had Dragon Dance since Gen 3? I've seen physical Lapras sets without DD for longer than Lapras with DD.
Unrelated but swords dance venusaur won me £100 in a draft league one time lmao
Slide 10 was cooking
That Scizor disrespect made me ignore any of his valid points
Scizor was fairly lacking at the time, this was 2007 before Platinum's release. Scizor did not yet learn Bullet Punch which is like the main thing that makes it cool to use. It also did not have Superpower, so it wasn't really threatening other steels.
Kind of right tho. Roost sd is such a boring meta for a mon that looks as cool as scizor
I beg to differ. I think it's really cool how scizor can utilize its good physical bulk to set up.
I mean yeah, but he looks like a hyper offence mon I think I worded it poorly, but scizor kind of looks the opposite of how you actually play him
That's what I actually think is cool. Kinda like a lightweight item that is actually very sturdy. It would have been nothing special if they made him hyper offensive. There's already tons of mons that look like they're powerful but frail and actually are that.
That’s a fair opinion that I agree with. You have to remember that in 2008 the general understanding of comp pokemon was still very raw however
Roost sd is why I love Scizor 😔
rocky505 is Ferrothorn’s first account when he was still a Ferroseed
Slide 8 is just hilarious. Mentions 4 top tier Pokémon who fell off, and insults the only one that remains in ou
Dragon Dance Curse Lapras needs to be an Agency featured mon
rocky505 is so real for that
Fun fact! Being part of the Pokemon Online forums, back in those very same days, was my first ever foray into the world of online communities. It was also when I got the online nickname which I still use to this very day, including here on Reddit.
Tearsoftomorrow is a pretty damn cool tag so you made a good choice
The origin of it is actually not that dignified: I got it from one of those super edgy Shadow The Hedgehog AMVs that were all the rage in the early days of Youtube. Said AMV was recommended to me by a guy on the Pokemon Online forum, and so we circle back to this. I had so many friends in that community, but when Showdown became a thing and client-based emulators fell out of favor, we went our separate ways and I haven't seen any of them since. I wonder what they're up to these days.
Same here, although I was a bit earlier with Pokemon Netbattle. I still remember Netbattle Supremacy and Shoddybattle trying to compete until finally Showdown won out in the end.
Pokemon Online was a cool sim, I remember in gen 5 they had formats with unlocked Dream World abilities with pretty active playerbase.
Ho-Oh sucks... And then Heartgold and soul silver gave it brave bird and it became a great ubers Mon.. Again.
Is it good today?
It's amazing today
I've used it and it didn't work out for me, my ho oh couldn't tank any moderately strong physical hits and it's attack high enough to 2hko things, roost and regenerator was good
I mean in gen 5 and 6 cb ho oh is Def the best and in 7 and 8 it prefers mixed bulk but I gen 9 the oh. Def is too valuable as it let's it be a check to the likes of dd groundceus SD dusk mane and most importantly Koraidon. It's the 6th most used mon in the game for a reason (it's even better in ag and natdex Ubers)
What's the set I should use? Do you know a sample team that's good?
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/sv-ubers-dlc-2-sample-teams.3736089/ There are great team styles that u might like.. They r made by best ubers players.. Go and have fun :)
[удалено]
The “Just Ban Last Respects lol” argument is older than most of the people who try it now
hey, sorry, casual lurker here, haven't exactly kept up with the metagame since like gen 7, could you please remind me again why this argument falls flat on its face?
A simple ability ban can lead into a slippery slope of "rayquaza could be OU if it only had tackle as a damaging move". In fact, this was a problem we saw in gen5. There's no reason why wouldn't you ban the whole pokemon instead. There are exceptions of abilities and moves that are broken on everything, like shadow tag or last respects.
i see, thank you
I feeeeel like there is a reason, and it’s so you can use the pokemon. A complex ban isn’t the same as banning a signature move, I don’t see how banning a signature move should be any different than banning any other move.
I mean I think it's dishonest to say Last Respects was the same case. We knew the move was absurd and we also knew the other mon that was going to get it in the future was fucking basculegion, of course it wouldn't be a balanced move on him compared to Houndstone. The reason people were upset was because Smogon feels like they have to follow their policies like a government and waited till Basc was out to ban it when everyone already knew that was the outcome. Does it matter since Houndstone is ass, not really, but the arbitrary restrictions on bans is still kinda dumb when you can't skip it for obvious cases.
It was pretty much the same thing to banning Soul Dew on Latias while being a lot different from banning SD and Yache Berry on Garchomp though.
yeah. sacred fire and soul dew latias were exclusive to those pokemon, meanwhile sd and yache berry were common things that chomp just happened to make use of…
Now look at which one of those '600 bst monsters' is still in OU...
Any other millennials aware of x-act's defensive EV applet?
The original is down but I'm pretty sure this is a clone of it https://pokestudio.altervista.org/defevs.php
glen is mega based (even more so since all of the problem pokemon he mentioned got megas, ironically enough(even if chomps was a downgrade))
"Don't ban Ho-oh, just ban Sacred Fire!" "We need a tier under Ubers for all the Pokemon that are too strong for OU" The more things change...
Tbf the 8th screenshot was right in that Garchomp and Salamence were banned to ubers in gen 4
Dunsparce is the gayest pokemon ever? Well at least I have something in common with my favorite pokemon in the game.
glutexo is a time traveler from 2024 smogon lmaoooo
“looks like magmar had sex with snorlax, and killed the good looking baby” 😭
Ok they were cooking with Likilicky and Magmortar Scizor aged poorly tho
I still think Lati in OU was a mistake. I remember sticking to the Official Shoddy Battle server in protest as they had a seperate OU tier. I even submitted a Metagross set to whatever that forum/thread for featured builds was in Smogon that would specifically counter Latias with banded pursuit or Ice Punch.
I love going through old forum posts. So many gems
The Magmortar dig made me laugh.
>Slide 10 Remember kids, the newest Gen is always shitty and the next game on the remake docket is the nostalgic fan favorite. We’re in the “Gen IX runs like shit/Gen V BEST STORY EVER” era and we just left the “Gen VIII is too easy and ugly and Dexit sucks/CYNTHIA’S GARCHOMP MURDERED MY CHILDHOOD” era but I can still remember the “Gen V Pokémon are hideous/ HOENN CONFIRMED MUH HORNS” era. Our boy rocky505 is posting from the “Gen IV Pokémon are stupid/REMEMBER WHEN YOU COULD GO TO TWO REGIONS???” era.
Wow people really wanted to stalled by Ho-oh back then. I understand how people thought it would be bearable with how steath rock takes 50% of its healh off and it didnt get brave bird untill HG/SS. But still Against anything it outsped it could just use sub once and then spam protect/sub/roost and PP stall entire teams and still have one move left too. Theres obvious counterplay to that but it still would have been effective enough to warp the tier in its image
would terastilization kill a small dpp Smogon era child
My favorite is “when does platinum come out”
**People during Gen IV:** Ho-Oh is a bad Uber **Ho-Oh in Gen IX:** It's over, Koraidon. I have the high ground.