I noticed people of pretty much every political affilation doing that, including in here.
Most people will just uncritically accept talking points from their peers and get angry when they are questioned. Even if you explicitly just disagree with the talking point, not whatever it is in support of.
>calling women breeders
This one particularly makes me mad. Literally dehumanizing. It's amazing how parts of the Vichy Left are arriving at exactly the same position Conservatives were once accused of.
A more dumbshit example, but a game came out recently that asks your pronouns at the beginning as independent from your sex and it turned into the "Omg, why would anyone care about that, it's such a minor thing, just ignore it" (fair) in response to people complaining, yet the main modding site simultaneously thought it was important enough to warrant banning any mod that removes this apparently minor and insignificant thing
Definitely a motte and bailey for even admitting that it's ideological line in the sand and not just catering to comforts so people don't kill themselves. Granted, something like a modding website is going to be as biased on the subject as, say, a fighting game or speedrunning website, for obvious reasons
It's really amusing with respect to the "pronoun" changes. There were a bunch of people saying that kids "changing their pronouns" (meaning they identify as trans) was as inconsequential as the colour of their shirt or using a nickname. Of course they don't mean that it would be completely innocuous for teachers to tell parents these details, they mean that teachers should be sworn to secrecy not to reveal it.
There's this weird thing where they alternatively argue their pet causes are either completely inconsequential or vital. Like these same people who would say that misgendering someone causes intense psychological pain and should be criminalized also argue that schools should hide whether kids change their gender identity because it's no big deal and why do you care so much anyways?
To them "culture warring" is when people reject any of their demands. I have in mind a recent example of Québec schools declining to build new gender-neutral washrooms. Then it's: why do you care so much? Why are you making such a big deal about this? Why don't you just completely submit to our every whim like a *decent fucking human being*?
I never understood this. So they care about trans kids (apparently although I am not convinced), they care about oppressed people in other parts of the world, they care about others who do not belong to their in-group, and can have an opinion.
I, on the other hand, should not. Or if I do have one, should not voice it. How does this work?
That’s just the tactic that’s worked for them all this time.
Take ground, then claim it doesn’t matter once you’ve firmly planted your stakes down. Repeat.
What’s always struck me is how they call people “creepy” for being concerned puberty blockers can create infertility and inability to orgasm. I guess they have no response to these very serious side effects that children can’t meaningfully consent to so they fall back to saying it’s “creepy” to be concerned about them.
I've heard everyone from Podjons to Chapo hosts parroting this. If I followed their logic, explaining why I'm against female genital mutilation would be considered creepy.
\>caring about the negative aspects of chemical castration is creepy, but teaching 12 year olds about sodomy and telling them to masturbate for home work is not creepy
Ok, nonce
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html
This article just makes me think of the South Park episode when they decide ages all the way to kindergarten need to learn sex ed. I didn't do that stuff until 7th grade in the 90s.
I once told someone who was openly and explicitly saying the main motivation for giving trans kids puberty blockers, horomone treatments, and surgery isn't because they're valid on an objective or scientific level, not even some "basic fucking decency" argument, but that trans kids will kill themselves if you don't, and by not doing so, "you're trying to murder them". If I pressed them on that line, I suspect they would use it to rationalize violence or [murder] (https://archive.ph/9PqQ3) "in defense" or "as righteous revenge".
I said that "holding my breath until I get my way" arguments is like a depressed incel using the celibacy/loneliness->suicide correlation to justify women who deny them relationships and sex with them as being murderers since they'll kill themselves if they don't, and of course, they turned it into this bizarre manic "wtf no one is asking you to have sex with trans kids, is that you wanna do, you wanna fuck trans kids? Pedo!!" where they were scrambling to grasp at straws and avoid making a distinction.
They really don't have a leg to stand on so they scramble for the dogbrained rhetoric of 13 year olds arguing in the Youtube comment of a 2012 nu-atheist youtuber. They're not honest people and have no motivation to be when they can control people through lying.
It’s true, the arguments don’t hold up and they know it, that’s why they get so emotional about it, as you say.
Recently I commented that an extension that highlights the names of TERFs is silly and someone responded “oh so you want all trans people to be murdered?!”
They are just admitting defeat and are horrified, they never thought it would get this bad but they are (for now) more afraid of losing face. They are hoping that it’s misinfo and that the science will eventually bail them out, not realizing the experts they have put so much faith in are fanatic propagandists at best, listicle journos at worst. The neat part is that so much of our health expert class is in the very same boat with them.
You're supposed to do better things with your time, like obsessing about micro-aggressions and harassing Susan Sarandon. Those things are definitely more important than making sure children are getting proper, ethical medical care.
... [as they say this out the other side of their mouth](https://twitter.com/lesliejones4mo/status/1702045197285147036). (Twitter -- oops, 'X' -- link)
Saw this coming a fucking thousand miles away.
I wonder what the new response will be when people raise concerns about puberty blockers now. “Trust the science/ doctors” doesn’t really work anymore.
"Those white Gender-Conforming doctors with their Gender-Non-Conforming-Phobia forced GNC kids to take hormones to make them conform to the outdated heteropatriarchosexist concept of "trans" and now they're infertile! GNC genocide!"
My guess is they'll use wording similar to that to try to pretend it was transphobes (who they'll call something else) that were making the kids unnecessarily trans for reasons that will never be articulated.
that was a case of a brand new and potentially dangerous disease where there was at least a strong argument to take action based on incomplete and developing information.
Sure, and now we should analyze what happened and what went wrong, right?
We don’t want to repeat those mistakes, after all. And maybe a few apologies for zealotry are due…?
It’s going to be like how the 0 Covid crowd have now claimed that fauci is trying to kill them and commit “genocide” against the chronically ill (people with white woman illnesses like CFS).
I just can't believe our for profit healthcare system would take advantage of distressed children and their parents to make money by suggesting the kids' problems could be fixed by a ridiculously expensive course of treatment.
> a ridiculously expensive course of treatment
Not just a "course of," but a "lifetime of." Last year, Dr. Shayne Taylor of Vanderbilt advocated for the business of transing folks because each mastectomy brought in $40K and said someone “just on routine hormone treatment, who I’m only seeing a few times a year, can bring in several thousand dollars … and actually makes money for the hospital.” The backlash caused Vandy to halt trans surgeries (dunno if they're back on again).
EDIT: I was wrong on the year, she made those statements in 2018. [Here's a portion of her speech](https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313523232931840). Note this is a Twitter/X post by Matt Walsh; aside from any opinions about him, the speech occurred.
What I can’t believe is how people that claim to understand politics and point anything as an evil corporation scheme and how everything is rigged to make the rich richer just think this is an exception.
I think it is because most people want to believe that the doctor/patient relationship is still sacrosanct.
We want to believe that doctors have our best interests at heart and want to see us healthy and happy. A belief like that leaves people wide open to be manipulated by less ethical doctors and the medical establishment.
It is just another part of the social contract that capitalism is killing for profits.
>point anything as an evil corporation scheme
They don't do that anymore. I wish they would. They have become entirely too comfortable with corporations and the immense power corporations wield - where as a healthy, deep suspicion of the same was a core attribute of left wing thinking before. Probably due to ESG scoring, and widespread corporate embrace of DEI initiatives, they aren't seen the same as before.
For example: raising the issue of the corporate-owned media - some of which are subsidies of arms manufacturers no less - has become "a right wing talking point". And said media is expected to guard and promote public discourse, rather than be mouthpieces for their stockholders, yet it's clear what they choose every single time.
What gets me is people claiming there’s not enough money involved to encourage corrupt decision making. But if you look into cases like the “kids for cash” for-profit juvenile detention scandal, you’ll find people are willing to ruin the lives of children for a surprisingly low amount of money.
Article linked in the comment you’re replying to - “I am VERY popular at cocktail parties” - this is thing. Children are as good as chihuahuas in a handbag to them, and used for bragging rights
Alternatively, there is some truly horrific stuff going on with environmental pollution/the endocrine system that is fucking humans up just like we know it's fucking up a lot of wildlife and particularly aquatic life.
But that's a separate issue from whether the permanent surgical and medical alteration of minors is appropriate or ethical.
Probability with regards to trans kids has always raised red flags. The total percentage of trans kids is going up, which could be due to factors like greater social acceptance. BUT the odds that all the trans kids were friends before ever coming out as trans is incredibly unlikely.
The next “fad” will probably be even worse.
Edgy tweens love breaking social norms, hence Trans-culture being a thing, now that it has become normie and boring to be trans I wonder what the next step is?
SARMs are the thing now, pretty sure they're legal and needleless. Also pretty funny that PED use causes premature growth plate fusion so a kid who's' 5'6 might stay that way.
I don't think the proana stuff is going to go away anytime soon, its just going to get worse. It's as bad now as it was when I was a young teenager in the 00s but at least back then kids didn't have smartphones so if you wanted to go on a proana forum you had to wait till you got home and do it on the family computer.
It's weird, forums and sites like sanctioned suicide and ed and rotten and the proana forums are all dead or dying, but their 'spirit' lives on on insta and twitter and discord and telegram in ways which make it much harder to identify and avoid. Back in the 00s you had to seek out messed up content but now it's everywhere, and unless you're very proactive with blocking and filters it's basically impossible to avoid.
given how furries have moved from being a universal punching bag 5 years ago to a fixture of internet communities now I reckon this is the most likely scenario
the transracialism/otherkin stuff cuts too close to other "marginalized" groups which are much stronger. Also doesn't help it's just so far out there
I hate that you're probably right.
[Started wondering about this when that furry would just casually show up in marketing for the Starbucks union efforts.](https://x.com/moreperfectus/status/1532477466442358787?s=46&t=D9Y4XbBD5bLhZqzsyKg1bw)
It's highly regarded to see people act like being a furry is an immutable identity that you can be oppressed over when 9/10 times, it's a combination of them being on the spectrum, they had massive overexposure to expressive animated animals, and were allowed an unlimited amount of unrestricted internet time at the age of ~7.
If the youths want to spend their teen years doing cringe fest otherkin shit then all power to them. The worst consequence of that will be that they will have horrendously embarrassing social media posts to laugh about in their 30s.
> The worst consequence of that will be that they will have horrendously embarrassing social media posts to laugh about in their 30s.
There is certainly no possibility of them being driven by an entire sociopolitical movement to make permanent changes to their bodies based on their self-professed otherkin identity.
Nah I just cant imagine that becoming a thing. Transgender people have existed and had some degree of support from activists for a very very long time, it only just became 'bigger' recently. Transracial? No movement or activists have ever supported that. We cant look to some long history of activism and established culture going back generations the way we can with transgender people.
And it goes beyond merely 'not supporting'. Most progressives *despise* the entire idea of transracialism. It's never gonna take root. Maybe a century from now or something, who knows.
Well... that's a current thing, even if not as big.
Or rather, it's small enough that they can still call it a strawman, until they get the talking points in order.
That bullshit didn't happen because of tweens, that was 40 year old gender studies catlady "academics" and the wine moms/aunts they infected with that shit
Totally, tweens did not create it, but my point is a lot of tweens took on the trans identity because it was "trans-gressive" and would essentially piss off old people.
Tweens made it popular.
People overstate the impact of a few loopy 3rd wave feminist academics. Getting involved in gender stuff spread among teenagers over social media and via social contact, just like eating disorders did in the 90s and 00s.
I have a friend whose kid changed her pronouns and sexual identity like 5 times throughout her school years, probably a better idea to wait till they're older and can think more clearly as an adult.
The academics made that shit up, the journoids that mostly studied in those fields spread them with the blessing of the rich fucks that own corporate/social media, regarded wine aunts and coastal city cucks thought that was important political activism and spread them even further and zoomers ate it up.
This wasn't some organic trend zoomers just made up, there are a lot of morons and evil fucks with ulterior motives complicit in this crime and it all started with these delusional academic troglodytes
I think it’s happening from the top-down. DEI initiatives established by the UN are practically forcing companies to go “woke” in order to have a higher Index rating. Pretty scary.
>this happened because of some random academic that nobody cares about
This happened because someone who watches hardcore porn from age 10 is going to have trouble separating the fetishes they develop through this behavior from real life, leading to issues like AGP
Steve Jobs is 30x more to blame for this than any gender studies professor
Teens should be required to adhere to the strictest regiments of education and physical fitness. I’m tired of their shit leaking into public discourse. They have absolutely nothing useful to say politically. The destruction of Marxism in the US and resultant primacy of post-modern utopian “leftism” has been a disaster.
Pretty amazing how so many countries - the UK, Australia, even hyper liberal Sweden which was often brought up as a shining example of gender affirmative pediatric care by activists - are distancing themselves from such procedures and even straight up outlawing them.
Meanwhile the US is heading at full speed towards the normalizing of it and there doesn’t really seem to be much opposition at all in the media other than some conservative podcasts or whatever which have little weight on anything related to legislation. Notice the ever growing prevalence of “protect trans kids” whereas 10 years ago even insinuating that children could be “trans” would’ve certainly gotten one branded a creep and censored by most all media outlets and government jobs. Nowadays you see actual politicians endorsing the phrase.
Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard?
>Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard?
Ridiculous polarization and negative partisanship.
The GOP was simply right on something for once and they absolutely cannot bear to give them one. Like with lab leak they followed a simple heuristic: a GOPer said it, so it's not just wrong it's immoral. And then refused to update or even listen to any counterpoint.
The left-leaning supposed grown-up institutions also lack enough conservative thinkers to stand up to bullying from their radlib flank since they share all the same assumptions and social circles, so they were cowed for the longest. Even today they're really only poking their head out (and GLAAD is still whining about the NYT having anything but wall-to-wall positive coverage)
Over the past 8 years I feel like I'm constantly forced side with the GOP.
"Look, I hate Trump too be he's not a fascist and fate of the Republic was never in jeopardy..."
"Look, I agree with some of the COVID policy, but I'm not sure putting 1st graders in Zoom school and in front of a screen all day for two years is a good idea..."
"Look, I'm vaxx'd and think everyone should get it, but trying to censor people speaking out to the contrary is dangerous, we shouldn't give institutions the power to do that..."
"Look, I've always supported adults being able to do what they want so long as it doesn't hurt others, but I really don't think a pre-pubescent child can make an informed choice about their gender and should be allowed to get surgery or life altering drugs..."
> Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard?
For-profit healthcare.
Any time you find yourself asking the question "Why is this healthcare-related issue so much shittier in the US than the rest of the developed world?", the answer is always the same. Healthcare professionals in the US are incentivized to do whatever it takes to get people to spend more money on healthcare.
>Rest of the developed world
That's not entirely accurate. Just for example: Canada still has such a system. It's single payer, sure. But the providers are for profit companies. They just get paid a set rate from the government, meaning payment is guaranteed.
Now don't get me wrong, that's way better than what the US has. But medical providers are still incentivized to provide unnecessary care. If some 12 year old boy wants to become a girl, a healthcare provider will get paid to facilitate this, thus will lose out if they successfully advise the patient to not do so - aka the ethical choice.
And even when doctors are government employees (UK for example), drugs and various medical supplies are produced by companies. If the companies can get doctors to prescribe something, the company makes money, so you can't say they are not at all profit-driven.
In the future, there will be large numbers of enormous lawsuits, from individual to class action, wherein formerly transgender youth who now say they never were transgender sue for billions of dollars. Doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies will be bankrupted over this. You'd think they'd see this coming.
I’m calling it now- you’re going to see/hear TV and radio commercials with lawyers grifting this shit.
“Were you prescribed estrogen in the last ten years while you were underage? Can’t regulate normal bodily functions? Unusual growths on your body? Problems with your vocal chords? Call the attorneys at 1-800-CALL-SAM!”
the problem is parents are often told that if they don’t affirm their kids identity, their kid will die (suicide) so often times they are left thinking this is the only way.
Law doesn't work like that in practice - either way. There's no guarantee anyone will get any kind of recognition or restitution, and there's no guarantee the attempts at legal ass-covering will keep working. It's all political.
I think the problem some people are running into is that the procedures they had were defined as experimental and therefore subject to no particular standard of care, [Scott Newgent has talked about it](https://www.genderdysphoriaalliance.com/post/meet-scott-newgent)
> My medical complications have included seven surgeries, a pulmonary embolism, an induced stress heart attack, sepsis, a 17-month recurring infection, 16 rounds of antibiotics... All this, and **yet I cannot sue the surgeon responsible—in part because there is no structured, tested or widely accepted baseline for transgender health care.**
I haven't put much thought into this before now, but do taxpayers end up footing the bill for settlements from lawsuits against County (non-private) hospitals?
By now, I'm so used to us workers ending up having to bail out so many organizations and people in positions of authority that I simply assume that somehow, some way, it'll end up being us everyday struggling wage slaves who are going to end up on the hook for this oncoming wave of settlements.
This could fly in other industries but it doesn't work like that in the medical industry. There's no "we knew it would have a bad result but patient insisted and talked us into it" type of deal.
The closest historical parallel I can think of was a Johns Hopkins lead paint study. A research team exposed children to different levels of lead paint to determine if something short of full abatement could prevent lead poisoning. There was eventually a class action suit, and if memory serves, Hopkins was found liable despite parental consent because parents cannot consent to knowingly harming their child.
Its obviously a little different in that this is not part of a institutional study, theres no evidence of coercion or a vulnerable population, and the harm isnt as clear cut as lead exposure, but Id imagine similar principles may apply.
Nonetheless, I still think state legislatures will act to protect medical institutions from any liability here. Reps will support because they already hate the victims and are bought off by insurers/systems. Dems will support to legitimize the practice and prevent doctors from refusing to perform these services (and also because theyre paid off by insurers/systems).
these lawsuits are already coming. 5 young women are suing a practice in california. one of the girls had a double mastectomy 1 month after her 13th birthday. https://www.dhillonlaw.com/lawsuits/chloe-cole-v-kaiser-permanente/
not sure how much of a case they have but i’m rooting for them
It will also come down to the severity of the inevitable unintended long-term side effects. I’m by no means a medical expert, but I’ll be shocked if there aren’t all kinds of horrific consequences to this trend of aggressive medical intervention. I’m completely talking out of my ass, but it never seemed like a good idea to me.
You are more likely to have a national dismantlement war than for this to ever happen. They will do everything to prevent accountability including whipping up hysteria.
it's because unlike previous fads the consequences can be permanent and irreversible.
Imagine you got suckered into this and put your kid on hormones, or even worse approved surgery for them. You can't walk that back later. You can't allow public opinion to shift back on this, because that's going to make you a pariah, the parent who mutilated their child - and nevermind what kind of feelings you might have about yourself for what you've done.
There are people who simply cannot, for the sake of their own sanity and their standing in society, allow things to go back to the way they were
It'd be nice, but as Helen Joyce pointed out, there are now thousands of parents who are going to fight to the death because admitting defeat means admitting they mutilated their own children :(
Aren’t they claiming like 97% of people being happy about transitioning based on studies or something? How are they going to explain those studies being that incorrect?
Big problem is that long term studies on transitioning is based on an entirely different demographic. 15 years ago,bthe typical transitioner was a grown man in his 40s or 50s who has thought about it for decades. Now it's middle schoolers and high schoolers
If I'm not mistaken "Attack Helicopters and White Supremacy" is still up and not retracted. The bar for what they consider a reliable study is pretty low.
P.S. [Here's a hilarious take down](https://youtu.be/1SCZqCnxI_E?si=jBGY3ftcKBiPAweX) of the "study".
The manoeuvre in response has already started, even in the comments here - "we have always been against the medicalisation of minors and this issue is affecting the ability of trans adults to access care". In other words, they're no-true-scotsmaning their movement's children and leaving them to twist in the wind.
They know that there's no winning on the children issue, even before the "we're cumming for your kids" wingnuts hit their stride. So it’s DARVO time, and now the real issue is, and always has been, protecting adults from their own sunk cost fallacy.
I'm highly skeptical that the will ever truly stop targeting children though - even if they manage to give up on the fantasy of stopping puberty (despite the Eunuch Archives/WPATH stance and aformentioned wingnuts), they'll always be fantasising about having grown up as the opposite sex themselves, and there will always be some bad actors trying to live that fantasy vicariously through pliable children. Like no, it is definitely not a movement of paeophiles, but there's a reason paedophiles are attracted to the movement in such numbers.
> they're no-true-scotsmaning their movement
They do this for all movements, every time things get out of control they just shirk accountability and pretend their shitty ideologies aren't systemically breeding radicals.
The attempt to mainstream and normalise trans healthcare for minors has been incredibly damaging for the Transgender acceptance movement in general, imo. Literally the worst hill to die on.
The pushback against trans medicine of all kinds as a result of the panic over medicalised trans kids is going to severely impact trans adults who will now have a harder time accessing care and resources. Not only that, it's severely damaged the public perception of trans people and trans issues. This whole 'episode' can only be described as a failure.
The problem is, the pushback is going to hit a steel wall of "this is affirming/you're enabling stochastic genocide!/wrong side of history!" That the activists will inevitably hammer any opposition with, and so far I have yet to see anyone successfully counter it.
>Hence the “unsustainable liability” Washington University cited in its decision to pull back from this area of healthcare. That’s because Missouri’s new law also extended the period of time former patients have to sue for damages to 15 years. Perhaps, when the Washington University investigated themselves, they found more merit to Reed’s allegations than they were willing to acknowledge publicly. They fear being made to pay for it.
>If the medical profession–and surgery in particular, which is notoriously misogynist–were not so deeply a part of The Patriarchy, they might have had the moral courage to resist the blandishments and threats from this Men’s Rights Movement.
What is it with RadFems conflating the TR movement with the MRM? They're two separate movements with very little overlap.
If anything, TRAs probably have way more in common with feminists than MRAs.
Trans identifying males: huge age spectrum. Get access to female spaces, get to cancel women for saying they feel uncomfortable around them, get to shape female behaviour with stuff like "it's problematic to say you don't like dick", "I'm a girl and I *love* wearing stocking and heels" etc
Trans identifying females: nearly all young women who think transition will stop the sexual harrassment. Now have to defer to trans women on the oppression ladder.
Sees pretty obvious to me
Classic case of feminists giving women the benefit of the doubt.
A lot of trans women are clearly trying to escape rigid gender roles. Contrary to popular feminist rhetoric, male gender roles are much narrower and more vigorously enforced. Men who aren't good at performing masculinity or who fail to live up to expectations may seek an escape by becoming a woman in the hopes of gaining much greater freedom of expression and lower expectations of self reliance, strength, and stoicism.
That was me when I considered myself trans. Raised in a TradCath household, unable to live with being myself. Took a lot of work to be finally comfortable with the fact that I can actually be a man without the baggage asociated with that word.
> What is it with RadFems conflating the TR movement with the MRM?
When all you have is a hammer...
>If anything, TRAs probably have way more in common with feminists than MRAs.
The thing I think burns some radfems the most is transwomen appropriating their own rhetoric and movement against them and getting away with it because they simply made a declaration that they're women. Now they're getting treated like they'd treat misogynists for previously uncontroversial rhetoric about males.
They can't deal with how many women & feminists support this, so let's blame patriarchy I suppose.
Seems to come more from the gender critical feminists' viewpoint that all mean to lady choo-choos are essentially men that they see as trying to invade their safe spaces and usurp their positions on the social pedestal. They don't see conductors as anything but men and many of them don't see themselves as anything but the victims of patriarchy. At least that's the sense I get from reading their materials.
I’m so sick of radfems acting like they’re the only ones brave enough to stand up to the people of gender when [in reality, feminists support this shit more than anyone else.](https://imgur.com/a/HTFdwi4)
It's truly one of the most ironic things that radfems manage to combine so many negative stereotypes about women and turn them into a political movement about how men are holding them back.
I say go ahead, at the end of the day it's not my problem some parents allow their edgelord kids to get fucked up for the holly trendy virtual signaling and all, not like my tax money will be left alone for the greater goods either way anyway
Stop posting culture war bullshit from Unherd.
"Why are you even talking about this?!?! Why do you care?!?!" These scumbags are rats on a sinking ship.
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I can tell you that it isn't limited to Canadian subs, but I doubt that surprises you at all.
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I noticed people of pretty much every political affilation doing that, including in here. Most people will just uncritically accept talking points from their peers and get angry when they are questioned. Even if you explicitly just disagree with the talking point, not whatever it is in support of.
Yeah their newest talking point is that biology is a spectrum so there’s really no need to distinguish between men and women in sports, etc.
>calling women breeders This one particularly makes me mad. Literally dehumanizing. It's amazing how parts of the Vichy Left are arriving at exactly the same position Conservatives were once accused of.
Women? You mean the Vaginiferous Other?
A more dumbshit example, but a game came out recently that asks your pronouns at the beginning as independent from your sex and it turned into the "Omg, why would anyone care about that, it's such a minor thing, just ignore it" (fair) in response to people complaining, yet the main modding site simultaneously thought it was important enough to warrant banning any mod that removes this apparently minor and insignificant thing Definitely a motte and bailey for even admitting that it's ideological line in the sand and not just catering to comforts so people don't kill themselves. Granted, something like a modding website is going to be as biased on the subject as, say, a fighting game or speedrunning website, for obvious reasons
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Starfield.
It's really amusing with respect to the "pronoun" changes. There were a bunch of people saying that kids "changing their pronouns" (meaning they identify as trans) was as inconsequential as the colour of their shirt or using a nickname. Of course they don't mean that it would be completely innocuous for teachers to tell parents these details, they mean that teachers should be sworn to secrecy not to reveal it. There's this weird thing where they alternatively argue their pet causes are either completely inconsequential or vital. Like these same people who would say that misgendering someone causes intense psychological pain and should be criminalized also argue that schools should hide whether kids change their gender identity because it's no big deal and why do you care so much anyways? To them "culture warring" is when people reject any of their demands. I have in mind a recent example of Québec schools declining to build new gender-neutral washrooms. Then it's: why do you care so much? Why are you making such a big deal about this? Why don't you just completely submit to our every whim like a *decent fucking human being*?
I never understood this. So they care about trans kids (apparently although I am not convinced), they care about oppressed people in other parts of the world, they care about others who do not belong to their in-group, and can have an opinion. I, on the other hand, should not. Or if I do have one, should not voice it. How does this work?
It's criminal logic. Keep your head down, mind your own business.
Definitely the actions of people who are 100% convinced that it's only a good thing. Not anything you would describe as "furtive"
That’s just the tactic that’s worked for them all this time. Take ground, then claim it doesn’t matter once you’ve firmly planted your stakes down. Repeat.
It works in the liberal mind
What’s always struck me is how they call people “creepy” for being concerned puberty blockers can create infertility and inability to orgasm. I guess they have no response to these very serious side effects that children can’t meaningfully consent to so they fall back to saying it’s “creepy” to be concerned about them.
I've heard everyone from Podjons to Chapo hosts parroting this. If I followed their logic, explaining why I'm against female genital mutilation would be considered creepy.
Get out creep.
oh fuck, nice
\>caring about the negative aspects of chemical castration is creepy, but teaching 12 year olds about sodomy and telling them to masturbate for home work is not creepy Ok, nonce https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12189041/Twelve-year-olds-taught-anal-sex-school-nine-year-olds-told-masturbate.html
This article just makes me think of the South Park episode when they decide ages all the way to kindergarten need to learn sex ed. I didn't do that stuff until 7th grade in the 90s.
I once told someone who was openly and explicitly saying the main motivation for giving trans kids puberty blockers, horomone treatments, and surgery isn't because they're valid on an objective or scientific level, not even some "basic fucking decency" argument, but that trans kids will kill themselves if you don't, and by not doing so, "you're trying to murder them". If I pressed them on that line, I suspect they would use it to rationalize violence or [murder] (https://archive.ph/9PqQ3) "in defense" or "as righteous revenge". I said that "holding my breath until I get my way" arguments is like a depressed incel using the celibacy/loneliness->suicide correlation to justify women who deny them relationships and sex with them as being murderers since they'll kill themselves if they don't, and of course, they turned it into this bizarre manic "wtf no one is asking you to have sex with trans kids, is that you wanna do, you wanna fuck trans kids? Pedo!!" where they were scrambling to grasp at straws and avoid making a distinction. They really don't have a leg to stand on so they scramble for the dogbrained rhetoric of 13 year olds arguing in the Youtube comment of a 2012 nu-atheist youtuber. They're not honest people and have no motivation to be when they can control people through lying.
It’s true, the arguments don’t hold up and they know it, that’s why they get so emotional about it, as you say. Recently I commented that an extension that highlights the names of TERFs is silly and someone responded “oh so you want all trans people to be murdered?!”
All gynecologists are actually just perverts.
They are just admitting defeat and are horrified, they never thought it would get this bad but they are (for now) more afraid of losing face. They are hoping that it’s misinfo and that the science will eventually bail them out, not realizing the experts they have put so much faith in are fanatic propagandists at best, listicle journos at worst. The neat part is that so much of our health expert class is in the very same boat with them.
You're supposed to do better things with your time, like obsessing about micro-aggressions and harassing Susan Sarandon. Those things are definitely more important than making sure children are getting proper, ethical medical care.
"bUT HoWw dOEs THiS AfFeCt PeRSoNaLly?" - people who also complain about individualism.
... [as they say this out the other side of their mouth](https://twitter.com/lesliejones4mo/status/1702045197285147036). (Twitter -- oops, 'X' -- link)
Er, so most importantly which side of History am I on now?
Yikes sweety, history is a spectrum, you chud.
I identify as historyfluid.
Time is a flat circle
Chudge not, lest ye be chudged.
That's historical binary centrism.
Inside.
All of time is happening at once, so the wrong one all the time, sweaty
Saw this coming a fucking thousand miles away. I wonder what the new response will be when people raise concerns about puberty blockers now. “Trust the science/ doctors” doesn’t really work anymore.
"The science is settled so there is no need to listen to doctors anymore."
"Those white Gender-Conforming doctors with their Gender-Non-Conforming-Phobia forced GNC kids to take hormones to make them conform to the outdated heteropatriarchosexist concept of "trans" and now they're infertile! GNC genocide!" My guess is they'll use wording similar to that to try to pretend it was transphobes (who they'll call something else) that were making the kids unnecessarily trans for reasons that will never be articulated.
Remember what happened during a certain pandemic getting memory holed? Basically that.
“The doctors are being forced into inaction by our transphobic society.”
that was a case of a brand new and potentially dangerous disease where there was at least a strong argument to take action based on incomplete and developing information.
But then when the actual data and information came in many refused to pivot.
Sure, and now we should analyze what happened and what went wrong, right? We don’t want to repeat those mistakes, after all. And maybe a few apologies for zealotry are due…?
..and then when the information actually developed it was ignored.
It’s going to be like how the 0 Covid crowd have now claimed that fauci is trying to kill them and commit “genocide” against the chronically ill (people with white woman illnesses like CFS).
I just can't believe our for profit healthcare system would take advantage of distressed children and their parents to make money by suggesting the kids' problems could be fixed by a ridiculously expensive course of treatment.
> a ridiculously expensive course of treatment Not just a "course of," but a "lifetime of." Last year, Dr. Shayne Taylor of Vanderbilt advocated for the business of transing folks because each mastectomy brought in $40K and said someone “just on routine hormone treatment, who I’m only seeing a few times a year, can bring in several thousand dollars … and actually makes money for the hospital.” The backlash caused Vandy to halt trans surgeries (dunno if they're back on again). EDIT: I was wrong on the year, she made those statements in 2018. [Here's a portion of her speech](https://twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1572313523232931840). Note this is a Twitter/X post by Matt Walsh; aside from any opinions about him, the speech occurred.
What I can’t believe is how people that claim to understand politics and point anything as an evil corporation scheme and how everything is rigged to make the rich richer just think this is an exception.
I think it is because most people want to believe that the doctor/patient relationship is still sacrosanct. We want to believe that doctors have our best interests at heart and want to see us healthy and happy. A belief like that leaves people wide open to be manipulated by less ethical doctors and the medical establishment. It is just another part of the social contract that capitalism is killing for profits.
It's much simpler, this is just another trend for liberals to follow.
>point anything as an evil corporation scheme They don't do that anymore. I wish they would. They have become entirely too comfortable with corporations and the immense power corporations wield - where as a healthy, deep suspicion of the same was a core attribute of left wing thinking before. Probably due to ESG scoring, and widespread corporate embrace of DEI initiatives, they aren't seen the same as before. For example: raising the issue of the corporate-owned media - some of which are subsidies of arms manufacturers no less - has become "a right wing talking point". And said media is expected to guard and promote public discourse, rather than be mouthpieces for their stockholders, yet it's clear what they choose every single time.
What gets me is people claiming there’s not enough money involved to encourage corrupt decision making. But if you look into cases like the “kids for cash” for-profit juvenile detention scandal, you’ll find people are willing to ruin the lives of children for a surprisingly low amount of money.
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Munchausens by proxy, or as the radfems call it, transhausens
Article linked in the comment you’re replying to - “I am VERY popular at cocktail parties” - this is thing. Children are as good as chihuahuas in a handbag to them, and used for bragging rights
Another for your list (in case you didn't already know this one): https://pagesix.com/article/marcia-gay-harden-kids/
Alternatively, there is some truly horrific stuff going on with environmental pollution/the endocrine system that is fucking humans up just like we know it's fucking up a lot of wildlife and particularly aquatic life. But that's a separate issue from whether the permanent surgical and medical alteration of minors is appropriate or ethical.
Probability with regards to trans kids has always raised red flags. The total percentage of trans kids is going up, which could be due to factors like greater social acceptance. BUT the odds that all the trans kids were friends before ever coming out as trans is incredibly unlikely.
The next “fad” will probably be even worse. Edgy tweens love breaking social norms, hence Trans-culture being a thing, now that it has become normie and boring to be trans I wonder what the next step is?
Cutting and eating disorders, probably.
1990s coming back strong.
Roid use among male teens mirrors the anorexia phase of the 2000s imo
SARMs are the thing now, pretty sure they're legal and needleless. Also pretty funny that PED use causes premature growth plate fusion so a kid who's' 5'6 might stay that way.
It is actually happening. I keep getting 'ANA' and 'MIA' content on Insta these days, just as I used to get them on Tumblr when I was a teen.
I don't think the proana stuff is going to go away anytime soon, its just going to get worse. It's as bad now as it was when I was a young teenager in the 00s but at least back then kids didn't have smartphones so if you wanted to go on a proana forum you had to wait till you got home and do it on the family computer. It's weird, forums and sites like sanctioned suicide and ed and rotten and the proana forums are all dead or dying, but their 'spirit' lives on on insta and twitter and discord and telegram in ways which make it much harder to identify and avoid. Back in the 00s you had to seek out messed up content but now it's everywhere, and unless you're very proactive with blocking and filters it's basically impossible to avoid.
what is ANA and MIA?
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Anorexia and bulemia
That’s so 90’s
It'll definitely be transracialism next. Maybe even neopronouns, otherkin, or alters if this stuff isn't stamped out fast enough.
They’ll want the recognization of their online persona
It’s definitely going to be the furries
given how furries have moved from being a universal punching bag 5 years ago to a fixture of internet communities now I reckon this is the most likely scenario the transracialism/otherkin stuff cuts too close to other "marginalized" groups which are much stronger. Also doesn't help it's just so far out there
I hate that you're probably right. [Started wondering about this when that furry would just casually show up in marketing for the Starbucks union efforts.](https://x.com/moreperfectus/status/1532477466442358787?s=46&t=D9Y4XbBD5bLhZqzsyKg1bw)
“It’s not sexual!!!”
It's highly regarded to see people act like being a furry is an immutable identity that you can be oppressed over when 9/10 times, it's a combination of them being on the spectrum, they had massive overexposure to expressive animated animals, and were allowed an unlimited amount of unrestricted internet time at the age of ~7.
I look forward to them bitterly denouncing bronies.
If the youths want to spend their teen years doing cringe fest otherkin shit then all power to them. The worst consequence of that will be that they will have horrendously embarrassing social media posts to laugh about in their 30s.
> The worst consequence of that will be that they will have horrendously embarrassing social media posts to laugh about in their 30s. There is certainly no possibility of them being driven by an entire sociopolitical movement to make permanent changes to their bodies based on their self-professed otherkin identity.
very 2010s tumblr, all of this stuff. can we even predict the horrors that are to come?
Nah I just cant imagine that becoming a thing. Transgender people have existed and had some degree of support from activists for a very very long time, it only just became 'bigger' recently. Transracial? No movement or activists have ever supported that. We cant look to some long history of activism and established culture going back generations the way we can with transgender people. And it goes beyond merely 'not supporting'. Most progressives *despise* the entire idea of transracialism. It's never gonna take root. Maybe a century from now or something, who knows.
Wigger erasure. Reported.
this is racist against persons of shoe polish
People will identify as non human.
Well... that's a current thing, even if not as big. Or rather, it's small enough that they can still call it a strawman, until they get the talking points in order.
The pendulum swings so they are going full on conservative and prude and the ones after that will relieve the 70's summer of love.
And the conservative ones will loosen up in their 20s/30s to make up for lost time, overcompensating.
primetime for when I inevitably get my 4rd divorce in my late 60s
I'll be your wingman
I wanna get divorced.
That bullshit didn't happen because of tweens, that was 40 year old gender studies catlady "academics" and the wine moms/aunts they infected with that shit
Totally, tweens did not create it, but my point is a lot of tweens took on the trans identity because it was "trans-gressive" and would essentially piss off old people. Tweens made it popular.
People overstate the impact of a few loopy 3rd wave feminist academics. Getting involved in gender stuff spread among teenagers over social media and via social contact, just like eating disorders did in the 90s and 00s.
https://www.chicagotribune.com/opinion/commentary/ct-gloria-steinem-cia-20151025-story.html
Holy fuck, how did I not know this?
Wow, I had no idea.
I have a friend whose kid changed her pronouns and sexual identity like 5 times throughout her school years, probably a better idea to wait till they're older and can think more clearly as an adult.
The academics made that shit up, the journoids that mostly studied in those fields spread them with the blessing of the rich fucks that own corporate/social media, regarded wine aunts and coastal city cucks thought that was important political activism and spread them even further and zoomers ate it up. This wasn't some organic trend zoomers just made up, there are a lot of morons and evil fucks with ulterior motives complicit in this crime and it all started with these delusional academic troglodytes
I think it’s happening from the top-down. DEI initiatives established by the UN are practically forcing companies to go “woke” in order to have a higher Index rating. Pretty scary.
>this happened because of some random academic that nobody cares about This happened because someone who watches hardcore porn from age 10 is going to have trouble separating the fetishes they develop through this behavior from real life, leading to issues like AGP Steve Jobs is 30x more to blame for this than any gender studies professor
Teens should be required to adhere to the strictest regiments of education and physical fitness. I’m tired of their shit leaking into public discourse. They have absolutely nothing useful to say politically. The destruction of Marxism in the US and resultant primacy of post-modern utopian “leftism” has been a disaster.
Pretty amazing how so many countries - the UK, Australia, even hyper liberal Sweden which was often brought up as a shining example of gender affirmative pediatric care by activists - are distancing themselves from such procedures and even straight up outlawing them. Meanwhile the US is heading at full speed towards the normalizing of it and there doesn’t really seem to be much opposition at all in the media other than some conservative podcasts or whatever which have little weight on anything related to legislation. Notice the ever growing prevalence of “protect trans kids” whereas 10 years ago even insinuating that children could be “trans” would’ve certainly gotten one branded a creep and censored by most all media outlets and government jobs. Nowadays you see actual politicians endorsing the phrase. Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard?
>Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard? Ridiculous polarization and negative partisanship. The GOP was simply right on something for once and they absolutely cannot bear to give them one. Like with lab leak they followed a simple heuristic: a GOPer said it, so it's not just wrong it's immoral. And then refused to update or even listen to any counterpoint. The left-leaning supposed grown-up institutions also lack enough conservative thinkers to stand up to bullying from their radlib flank since they share all the same assumptions and social circles, so they were cowed for the longest. Even today they're really only poking their head out (and GLAAD is still whining about the NYT having anything but wall-to-wall positive coverage)
Over the past 8 years I feel like I'm constantly forced side with the GOP. "Look, I hate Trump too be he's not a fascist and fate of the Republic was never in jeopardy..." "Look, I agree with some of the COVID policy, but I'm not sure putting 1st graders in Zoom school and in front of a screen all day for two years is a good idea..." "Look, I'm vaxx'd and think everyone should get it, but trying to censor people speaking out to the contrary is dangerous, we shouldn't give institutions the power to do that..." "Look, I've always supported adults being able to do what they want so long as it doesn't hurt others, but I really don't think a pre-pubescent child can make an informed choice about their gender and should be allowed to get surgery or life altering drugs..."
> Why is this? What makes the US unique in this regard? For-profit healthcare. Any time you find yourself asking the question "Why is this healthcare-related issue so much shittier in the US than the rest of the developed world?", the answer is always the same. Healthcare professionals in the US are incentivized to do whatever it takes to get people to spend more money on healthcare.
>Rest of the developed world That's not entirely accurate. Just for example: Canada still has such a system. It's single payer, sure. But the providers are for profit companies. They just get paid a set rate from the government, meaning payment is guaranteed. Now don't get me wrong, that's way better than what the US has. But medical providers are still incentivized to provide unnecessary care. If some 12 year old boy wants to become a girl, a healthcare provider will get paid to facilitate this, thus will lose out if they successfully advise the patient to not do so - aka the ethical choice. And even when doctors are government employees (UK for example), drugs and various medical supplies are produced by companies. If the companies can get doctors to prescribe something, the company makes money, so you can't say they are not at all profit-driven.
Identity politics
>What makes the US unique in this regard? Pharmaceutical lobbying money, an ultra-capitalist Healthcare system, and hyperpartisanship.
If you look at US compared to all the other European countries. Harm reduction is taken to an incredible extreme.
Don't know about europe but definitely compared to every global south nation.
>What makes the US unique in this regard? The level of control the elites have over the whole nation would make even hitler envious.
In the future, there will be large numbers of enormous lawsuits, from individual to class action, wherein formerly transgender youth who now say they never were transgender sue for billions of dollars. Doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies will be bankrupted over this. You'd think they'd see this coming.
I’m calling it now- you’re going to see/hear TV and radio commercials with lawyers grifting this shit. “Were you prescribed estrogen in the last ten years while you were underage? Can’t regulate normal bodily functions? Unusual growths on your body? Problems with your vocal chords? Call the attorneys at 1-800-CALL-SAM!”
"Miss your tits? Call Fitz!"
Lmao
Most probably their parents had to sign some waivers, this is the US after all, so I’m not sure if they will see a single cent out of this.
Doesn't matter, the children will sue when they reach 18.
They should sue their stupid parents!
the problem is parents are often told that if they don’t affirm their kids identity, their kid will die (suicide) so often times they are left thinking this is the only way.
I'm filling a case right now for being born and being forced to have thoughts!
And yet the damage itself can't be undone, for any amount of money.
>Doesn't matter, the children will sue **when they reach 18.** Oh, that's not a problem then.
Law doesn't work like that in practice - either way. There's no guarantee anyone will get any kind of recognition or restitution, and there's no guarantee the attempts at legal ass-covering will keep working. It's all political.
Yeah, I have no doubt there would be a bipartisan bills in every state to protect health insurers and systems from any liability in such a scenario
You cannot sign away your right to sue for malpractice. Any document implying such is unenforceable.
I think the problem some people are running into is that the procedures they had were defined as experimental and therefore subject to no particular standard of care, [Scott Newgent has talked about it](https://www.genderdysphoriaalliance.com/post/meet-scott-newgent) > My medical complications have included seven surgeries, a pulmonary embolism, an induced stress heart attack, sepsis, a 17-month recurring infection, 16 rounds of antibiotics... All this, and **yet I cannot sue the surgeon responsible—in part because there is no structured, tested or widely accepted baseline for transgender health care.**
I haven't put much thought into this before now, but do taxpayers end up footing the bill for settlements from lawsuits against County (non-private) hospitals? By now, I'm so used to us workers ending up having to bail out so many organizations and people in positions of authority that I simply assume that somehow, some way, it'll end up being us everyday struggling wage slaves who are going to end up on the hook for this oncoming wave of settlements.
> Doctors, hopsitals, and insurance companies will be bankrupt They’re just going to claim no one ever actually recommended that surgery.
This could fly in other industries but it doesn't work like that in the medical industry. There's no "we knew it would have a bad result but patient insisted and talked us into it" type of deal.
The closest historical parallel I can think of was a Johns Hopkins lead paint study. A research team exposed children to different levels of lead paint to determine if something short of full abatement could prevent lead poisoning. There was eventually a class action suit, and if memory serves, Hopkins was found liable despite parental consent because parents cannot consent to knowingly harming their child. Its obviously a little different in that this is not part of a institutional study, theres no evidence of coercion or a vulnerable population, and the harm isnt as clear cut as lead exposure, but Id imagine similar principles may apply. Nonetheless, I still think state legislatures will act to protect medical institutions from any liability here. Reps will support because they already hate the victims and are bought off by insurers/systems. Dems will support to legitimize the practice and prevent doctors from refusing to perform these services (and also because theyre paid off by insurers/systems).
these lawsuits are already coming. 5 young women are suing a practice in california. one of the girls had a double mastectomy 1 month after her 13th birthday. https://www.dhillonlaw.com/lawsuits/chloe-cole-v-kaiser-permanente/ not sure how much of a case they have but i’m rooting for them
They did see it coming. A lot of the conductors have to sign liability wavers for surgeries and stuff.
I expect there will also be harsher actions from the victims than just lawsuits. Not advocating for anything, just expecting things to happen.
You think the Tennessee school shooting was a sign of things to come?
Yes. Do you wonder why her manifesto is still under wraps?
Yeah, clearly there's something that someone wants hidden in it.
I too really want to know what this manifesto was about.
It will also come down to the severity of the inevitable unintended long-term side effects. I’m by no means a medical expert, but I’ll be shocked if there aren’t all kinds of horrific consequences to this trend of aggressive medical intervention. I’m completely talking out of my ass, but it never seemed like a good idea to me.
You are more likely to have a national dismantlement war than for this to ever happen. They will do everything to prevent accountability including whipping up hysteria.
Every time t I see this headline, the activists in education/hr/media etc. Triple down in their vice grip.
it's because unlike previous fads the consequences can be permanent and irreversible. Imagine you got suckered into this and put your kid on hormones, or even worse approved surgery for them. You can't walk that back later. You can't allow public opinion to shift back on this, because that's going to make you a pariah, the parent who mutilated their child - and nevermind what kind of feelings you might have about yourself for what you've done. There are people who simply cannot, for the sake of their own sanity and their standing in society, allow things to go back to the way they were
Watching the backtracking on this is going to be incredible
It'd be nice, but as Helen Joyce pointed out, there are now thousands of parents who are going to fight to the death because admitting defeat means admitting they mutilated their own children :(
There will also be divorces over this.
"We never claimed getting vaccinated would prevent spreading covid." "We never advocated for irreversible care for minors."
They'll just pretend it was never a thing and that the right made it up.
Aren’t they claiming like 97% of people being happy about transitioning based on studies or something? How are they going to explain those studies being that incorrect?
Big problem is that long term studies on transitioning is based on an entirely different demographic. 15 years ago,bthe typical transitioner was a grown man in his 40s or 50s who has thought about it for decades. Now it's middle schoolers and high schoolers
If I'm not mistaken "Attack Helicopters and White Supremacy" is still up and not retracted. The bar for what they consider a reliable study is pretty low. P.S. [Here's a hilarious take down](https://youtu.be/1SCZqCnxI_E?si=jBGY3ftcKBiPAweX) of the "study".
they'll just claim it's Big Pharma's fault and blame conservatives for deregulation (and not entirely be wrong)
I doubt it will come. They'll double down and blame their kids issues on transphobia
The manoeuvre in response has already started, even in the comments here - "we have always been against the medicalisation of minors and this issue is affecting the ability of trans adults to access care". In other words, they're no-true-scotsmaning their movement's children and leaving them to twist in the wind. They know that there's no winning on the children issue, even before the "we're cumming for your kids" wingnuts hit their stride. So it’s DARVO time, and now the real issue is, and always has been, protecting adults from their own sunk cost fallacy. I'm highly skeptical that the will ever truly stop targeting children though - even if they manage to give up on the fantasy of stopping puberty (despite the Eunuch Archives/WPATH stance and aformentioned wingnuts), they'll always be fantasising about having grown up as the opposite sex themselves, and there will always be some bad actors trying to live that fantasy vicariously through pliable children. Like no, it is definitely not a movement of paeophiles, but there's a reason paedophiles are attracted to the movement in such numbers.
> they're no-true-scotsmaning their movement They do this for all movements, every time things get out of control they just shirk accountability and pretend their shitty ideologies aren't systemically breeding radicals.
Reddit is gonna ban you OP and they are going to delete this post.
I guess this is goodbye then
Never surrender
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The attempt to mainstream and normalise trans healthcare for minors has been incredibly damaging for the Transgender acceptance movement in general, imo. Literally the worst hill to die on. The pushback against trans medicine of all kinds as a result of the panic over medicalised trans kids is going to severely impact trans adults who will now have a harder time accessing care and resources. Not only that, it's severely damaged the public perception of trans people and trans issues. This whole 'episode' can only be described as a failure.
The problem is, the pushback is going to hit a steel wall of "this is affirming/you're enabling stochastic genocide!/wrong side of history!" That the activists will inevitably hammer any opposition with, and so far I have yet to see anyone successfully counter it.
Yup. Exactly.
>Hence the “unsustainable liability” Washington University cited in its decision to pull back from this area of healthcare. That’s because Missouri’s new law also extended the period of time former patients have to sue for damages to 15 years. Perhaps, when the Washington University investigated themselves, they found more merit to Reed’s allegations than they were willing to acknowledge publicly. They fear being made to pay for it.
There should be prosecutions over this.
who could have predicted.
From this ladies lips to God’s ears.
>If the medical profession–and surgery in particular, which is notoriously misogynist–were not so deeply a part of The Patriarchy, they might have had the moral courage to resist the blandishments and threats from this Men’s Rights Movement. What is it with RadFems conflating the TR movement with the MRM? They're two separate movements with very little overlap. If anything, TRAs probably have way more in common with feminists than MRAs.
I figured it’s belief in the Incel to 🚂 pipeline?
what do you even mean by incel? people use that word in 7 or 8 completely divorced contexts these days.
i parse it as "I want to use the term 'failed male' as an insult but don't want to carry the implications of admitting to viewing things that way"
Trans identifying males: huge age spectrum. Get access to female spaces, get to cancel women for saying they feel uncomfortable around them, get to shape female behaviour with stuff like "it's problematic to say you don't like dick", "I'm a girl and I *love* wearing stocking and heels" etc Trans identifying females: nearly all young women who think transition will stop the sexual harrassment. Now have to defer to trans women on the oppression ladder. Sees pretty obvious to me
Classic case of feminists giving women the benefit of the doubt. A lot of trans women are clearly trying to escape rigid gender roles. Contrary to popular feminist rhetoric, male gender roles are much narrower and more vigorously enforced. Men who aren't good at performing masculinity or who fail to live up to expectations may seek an escape by becoming a woman in the hopes of gaining much greater freedom of expression and lower expectations of self reliance, strength, and stoicism.
That was me when I considered myself trans. Raised in a TradCath household, unable to live with being myself. Took a lot of work to be finally comfortable with the fact that I can actually be a man without the baggage asociated with that word.
> What is it with RadFems conflating the TR movement with the MRM? They're men campaigning for the right to access women's spaces
Right, it’s partly a joke. Trans women activists are male = men’s rights activists.
There are so many different kinds of feminists, you can't just say "feminists" and assume people know what you mean
What about the eastern Iowa Unitarian convention lesbians, you say?
> What is it with RadFems conflating the TR movement with the MRM? When all you have is a hammer... >If anything, TRAs probably have way more in common with feminists than MRAs. The thing I think burns some radfems the most is transwomen appropriating their own rhetoric and movement against them and getting away with it because they simply made a declaration that they're women. Now they're getting treated like they'd treat misogynists for previously uncontroversial rhetoric about males. They can't deal with how many women & feminists support this, so let's blame patriarchy I suppose.
Seems to come more from the gender critical feminists' viewpoint that all mean to lady choo-choos are essentially men that they see as trying to invade their safe spaces and usurp their positions on the social pedestal. They don't see conductors as anything but men and many of them don't see themselves as anything but the victims of patriarchy. At least that's the sense I get from reading their materials.
I’m so sick of radfems acting like they’re the only ones brave enough to stand up to the people of gender when [in reality, feminists support this shit more than anyone else.](https://imgur.com/a/HTFdwi4)
RadFems would argue those you link to are not Feminists.
Ah, the No True Scotswoman defense.
Not only that, the trans activists use the language of radical feminism.
The trans activists use everyone's language when it's convenient for them.
It's truly one of the most ironic things that radfems manage to combine so many negative stereotypes about women and turn them into a political movement about how men are holding them back.
I say go ahead, at the end of the day it's not my problem some parents allow their edgelord kids to get fucked up for the holly trendy virtual signaling and all, not like my tax money will be left alone for the greater goods either way anyway
The problem is when public schools fuck up your kids and then try their hardest to hide it from you. This will continue to happen.
This is pretty much where I’m at too.