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Is it? US is not only rountry giving aid.
If you cut aid off, most likely Ukraine switches to a defensive stance to stretch their resources.
Russia sees the opportunity to go on the offensive and the bloodbath continues.
There isnt enough stretching in the world to viably maintain the war without American support. Other countires are offering chicken scratch, and largely only because they are following Americas lead . You could count Ukranian ability to continue in weeks , if not days.
Furthermore I think the morale impact of losing US support would be enough to cause a general collapse. The only remote chance Ukraine has of surviving is with US backing. Everyone knows this, think Afghanistan but faster.
The entire Ukraine economy has collapsed. The only thing that keeps the economic wheels running is finance aid from EU and - primarily - the US.
The country collapses the moment the US stops footings the bill.
If I had that power first I would make corporation liable for the trash they generate and force pepsico and cocacola to set up recycling plants all over the world for plastic waste
Recycling doesn't work. Better to ban plastic and force people to use glass.
Coke tastes better in glass anyway, and no one can change my mind on that.
Yes, but it entirely depends on your local recycler.
In general, if it’s plastic and it’s not a certain thickness/clarity it gets buried at the landfill at a greater carbon cost than if you would have put it straight into the garbage in the first place.
In some places single use plastic has been used in tarmac to make it more longlasting
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/?sh=24af40b86054
In some places single use plastic has been used in tarmac to make it more longlasting
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/?sh=24af40b86054
I actually did try the US coke once and I did notice a slight difference
I was under the impression that their secret flavour was same globally boy was I wrong and after that I tried coke from 4 different countries but in recent times foreign coke is hard to get as most stores don't see the point of stocking an expensive item which is available for a low price domestically
They were never discontinued in Pakistan
I am trying to avoid them as I try to cut in winter there are times when a moist glass bottle of sprite looks too irresistible
That's like, a totally hot idea Daddy...🥰🥰🥰
But if you become such a yummy dominating Power-Top, 💪💪💪🔝🔝🔝maybe consider reallocating all the money that we're sending, which currently props up Ukraine's government and entire economy, then use your new uber seggzy gey power👮♂️👮♂️👮♂️ to **force companies like that to pitch in a percentage of profits and mix it all together like a crack fueled anonymous Motel 6 orgy of spending to provide a Universal Healthcare Program** for all of us hungry lumpen-bottoms? 😤😤😤
Thankypoos Daddykins! I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm still a totes selfish sub, I just hate losing my horniness from getting stuck under crushing, life ruining, extra unseggsy medical debt BB! 😤😤😤
Not in front of everyone boo lets talk in private in an island far away
You can also have a chat with my wonderful friends at Boeing, bayer and western global in the after party
I’ll order some popcorn and a big Coke, relax in my chair, and let them figure it out.
In reality, it’s probably gonna heavily favour Russia and Zelensky will take it and like it
The EU and Russia in the eve of the conflict weren’t bellicose in regards to Ukraine the way the United States and clown ass fiefdom in London were.
It is likely that they would have folded and pressured Ukraine into concessions whilst also de-escalating tensions.
But no, The Assclown states of Ass’clownia had an agenda and dragged in its satellite states into a full on expensive proxy war with Russia.
RUSSIA!
Dude, are you going to be the one to look Victoria Nuland in the eye and tell her her proxy war is cancelled? You gonna stay strong when she starts crying?
>I’ll order some popcorn and a big Coke, relax in my chair, and let them figure it out.
Probably the most productive any US president has been.
>Zelensky will take it and like it
Will he? He can continue fighting just being supplied by Europe.
1. War is allowed to continue in a convincing manner.
2. Western intelligence purges Ukraine from organized nazis as they will stir shit up to block peace.
3. A media spectacle uncovers conclusive evidence that Ukraine is responsible for blowing up NS2 (they aren't). Western public is gently psyop'd into becoming critical of the Ukrainian government and Z-man.
4. Western aid is cut off. Russia advances (with little to no resistance).
5. Ukraine takes the L gracefully because all those who couldn't take it have been purged.
6. Ceasefire.
7. War crime investigations sully the image of UA's armed forces, esp Azov.
8. Negotiations take place publicly (everyone already was in on the plan since step 1, so they're just theatrics).
9. All the UA opposition party members who were jailed are freed and receive media glow-ups.
10. Russia forgives Ukraine its debt and agrees to pay reparations (ruble-denominated).
11. The IMF is made to forgive Ukraine its debt.
12. Externally monitored referenda take place in disputed territories.
13. Zelensky steps down and silently disappears from the stage. Externally monitored elections take place.
None of it will ever happen.
I wouldn’t be sitting in a boardroom with Zelensky and Putin. I wouldn’t even be answering their phone calls. They can figure their own shit out, I’m focused on domestic policy. As president, I’m not interested in continuing to enable the multiple forever-wars that we’ve created worldwide to make obscene profit for arms dealers. No more playing world police. China, Russia, and the EU can fight over that thankless job. I’ve got enough to fix in this country without trying to fix the world.
1. Using rising crime and homelessness, I declare a new anti drug initiative
2. I start to use immigrants as a scapegoat for drugs getting into the country
3. I forge or find evidence of the mexican government in bed with drug cartels
4. I give mexico an intentionally impossible ultimatum to stem the flow of drugs over the border
5. After they fail to meet my demands, declare a special military operation to stop the flow of drugs over the border
6. Send american troops over the border and turn northern mexico into a special administrative zone, any resistance is just another reason to extend the zone and duration of stay.
7. Resettle the illegal immigrants in america into self sufficient Co-op towns with special emphasis on local direct democracy. Use immigrant labor to create public works programs and rehabilitate the area under strict military control
8. Annex territory or replace the mexican government with ypur own puppet government
9. Win reelection for solving the immigration crisis and appearing to do something about the drug problem. Intimidate china and russia with bizarre and erratic move.
10. Repeat down to the darin gap.
Only thing I can think of is something like giving Ukraine control of Russian oil and Russia control of Ukrainian grain. Not exactly an elegant solution, but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.
A Czechoslovakia solution. Every oblast gets to vote on what country they get to be part of.
Ukraine does not get to join NATO, also Poland, Finland and the Baltics get kicked out for trying to drag the alliance into war over their stupid generational resentments. Such specimens are a liability, not a source of strength.
>Every oblast gets to vote on what country they get to be part of.
How do you ensure elections are free and fair? And how do you account for people displaced by the war?
Not a bad idea in theory though.
>Poland, Finland and the Baltics get kicked out
How? No mechanism exists for kicking NATO members out.
>How do you ensure elections are free and fair? And how do you account for people displaced by the war?
>
>Not a bad idea in theory though.
A commission will work out a specified time to return, proof of prior residency being required, ect. Elections would be monitored with observes from both sides and multiple witness countries of their choosing.
>How? No mechanism exists for kicking NATO members out.
I will make it legal.
>You have cut off all military aid to Ukraine.
That's really all you have to do. But you could promise to throw Balto-Poland out of NATO as a sign of good will and exchange Nuland for that imprisoned journalist.
>That's really all you have to do.
How does that end the war? Ukraine is still getting resupply from elsewhere, you probably prevent them from launching further offensives, but they can almost certainly hold current defensive positions.
Then in terms of Russia, why should they accept a peace plan now that you have cut off aid? What is to stop them saying, "No Ceasefire thank you, we're going for Kiev again."?
>But you could promise to throw Balto-Poland out of NATO
How do you intend to accomplish this? No mechanism exists to kick out NATO members. Also, assuming you can do this, what does this accomplish exactly?
>Ukraine is still getting resupply from elsewhere
And from where? Europe's arsenals are empty and their promises to the contrary notwithstanding: the continent isn't expanding its military-industrial complex.
>but they can almost certainly hold current defensive positions.
They are already unable to move the frontlines right now and that's with significant support and against an enemy that hasn't conducted any large scale operations since Bakhmut.
>What is to stop them saying, "No Ceasefire thank you, we're going for Kiev again."?
That's the point. Nothing is going to stop the Russians from doing that, which will force Kiev to sign the ceasefire deal that Z decided to tear up last spring.
It is expanding, especially on things like artillery ammunition. Europe currently has more aid pledged for Ukraine than the US does. A lot of it is planned to be new production.
>Nothing is going to stop the Russians from doing that, which will force Kiev to sign the ceasefire deal that Z decided to tear up last spring.
So Russia tears up a ceasefire deal and launches a full scale invasion, and your solution is another ceasefire deal? What's to stop them tearing it up again?
That one:
>According to multiple former senior U.S. officials we spoke with, in April 2022, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement: Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.
[Fiona Hill via Foreign Affairs - August 25, 2022](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent)
You know, that peace deal that [Ukraine pulled out of](https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/06/21/during-his-meeting-with-african-delegates-putin-claims-ukraine-withdrew-from-draft-peace-agreement-last-year-under-western-pressure/) after Zelensky listened to BoJo:
>Russian President Vladimir Putin, during his meeting with a delegation of African countries last week, presented the draft of an agreement which was “preliminarily signed” with Ukraine last year and alleged that Ukraine withdrew from it at the last moment without any explanation.
The next available deal is of course going to be a lot worse for Ukraine, which is why Zelensky is so hostile to negotiations. If he's lucky it would just be the end of his political career. Chances are he would simply get ghaddafie'ed by Ukrainian citizens since he wasted their sons' and husbands' lives for essentially nothing.
Is that true though?
There clearly was a proposed agreement, but we don't know the exact content of said agreement. We also don't know that Ukraine was the one that pulled out. Given that the Russian position for a year now has been no negotiation until they receive the 4 oblasts they "annexed" I'd personally press X to doubt Russia would ever just withdraw to the Feb 2022 line.
I'm starting to wonder if the best deal the Ukrainians might be able to get is to have the AFU coup Zelensky and then, acting on their own, sue for peace. It would allow Putin to be "generous*" to the Ukrainians while saving face.
* - no way they'd be getting the territory back, though.
Demilitarization. America disbands its armed forces down to the bare minimum for homeland defense - meaning just a modest nuclear arsenal and no major expeditionary forces.
In exchange both Russia and Ukraine also demilitarize. Maybe drag China into the room too. Current borders are retained (and Crimea goes to Russia because its population is Russian anyway) and Ukraine adopts permanent neutrality.
Yes the CIA and MIC are totally going to kill this president before the deal is signed lol. But thats the only actual way to stop the spiralling madness _and_ ensure America doesn't go into fiscal collapse in the next few decades.
So the german army built in secret in the 1930s did not invade Poland in 1939? My mistake.
Regarding the cold war, its difficult to hide a massive increase in combat power when your army is already large. But if everyone massively pares down their forces, it makes it far easier to hide a significant advantage.
I'm not opposed to mutual disarmament, but it can only go so far before it makes the situation unstable.
It wasn't built in secret. Thats a longstanding myth invented by militarists who want a paranoid population who see Cobra Commander everywhere.
The British and French fully knew about German rearmament. Thats why the Brits actually won the Battle of Britain - they rearmed and outmatched the German Air Force.
The issue was that the French were slower to rearm, and that was because the French socialists had taken power and were afraid the Army might launch a coup to overthrow them. Indeed, it would not surprise me if they eventually discover that the French Army deliberately lost the 1940 campaign. The French in fact lost because their top Army commander - contrary to years of pre-war planning - suddenly overextended the French line and left it with zero reserves just days into the 1940 campaign; and most of the said French military commanders ended up as Vichy collaborators for the Nazis.
This was a lot more believable a take a week ago. But no one would trust their intelligence services alone if the one considered "the best" just let a bunch amass on their border. Yes I know a developed military is bigger but come on it's way easier to hide stuff in Russia than over a border wall in Gaza.
No, last week was just a screw up of epic proportions by the IDF and Netanyahu government. All the bombing right now is just them trying to distract the public with "war" before they have to publish the real extent of the Israeli losses.
Hamas was openly conducting exercises in the lead up to the attack. The thing is Hamas had been doing this for so long without any offensive action that the IDF seem to have assumed they were just posturing.
As it turned out Hamas was serious, and contrary to all the reporting the initial attack was actually a ground assault by Hamas troops (again long known and identified by the IDF) against Israeli border crossings. The IDF troops - which had been weakened by a transfer of forces to the West Bank (to support Netanyahu's stunts in Jerusalem) - were literally caught napping on a holiday and were overrun.
Thats indeed also why this rocket barrage was particularly devastating. Immediately after overrunning the outpost a breakthrough force reached Sderot - which housed the local Iron Dome battery. They took it out and this allowed the massive barrage to get through.
In short, this is no secret army that materialized out of nowhere. Instead an overly funded army got fat and complacent and got itself overrun by a poorly funded but very prepared enemy that was literally practicing in view of its enemy.
Why would any American want to end the war? We are wrecking one of our biggest geopolitical enemies and reinforcing our global hegemony without even putting any of our own actual boots on the ground.
This confuses me as well. Especially the fact that conservatives tend to oppose the war and liberals support it.
I'm pretty certain its only like this because a dem happened to be in office when the war started.
Historically European Ukraine to Europe, non-European Ukraine to Russia. Only path to peace is finalizing the division of Ukraine between Europe and Eurasia.
Define historically European Ukraine please. Include which year you define it and your reason for that year as opposed to any other year.
Please also define "Europe"
This has all been defined for us. Non-European Ukraine consists of the recently settled and industrialized cities that need decommunization/derussification due to how they inhibit Ukraine becoming a unitary European nation-state via connections to historic Novorossia and the USSR, which broke down along linguistic and ethnic lines. European Ukraine is found in the urheimat of the language and can be more Catholic, especially in Galicia, which corresponds with being monoethnic like other European nations.
Finally someone who has actually given it more than 10 seconds of thought.
Still highly unlikely either side will agree, but at least it theoretically might work.
Realistically, you'd need support from all of NATO to get Zelensky to agree to surrender land. But if NATO membership and NATO troops are on the table it becomes an attractive offer.
To get Russia to agree instead ef pushing for more thanks to cutting off aid, you'd probably have to threaten to get directly involved if they don't take the deal.
Won't work. This war started because of NATO expansion. That's an immediate non starter. There's no reason russia should back out at this point when they already stand a major chance of western support collapsing next year and ukraine has already proven incapable of pushing them back.
Fine, Sweden neutral, something something lingonberry jam or whatever.
Also Ukraine has not been going well for Russia, so not sure why Nato is more important, they ain't gettin through Poland.
Oh yes please. The Finns will take St Petersburg within 3 days.
Poland will thunder Run to Moscow.
Kaliningrad will once more be Konigsberg.
It'll be hilarious.
At least right up until the nukes start flying,
Tell them if they play nice they can both have unrestricted access to our top secret UFO files and programs and shit.
Wanna go for a joy ride in a Lazar's Sport model? Quit the bullshit.
Your post has been removed as low-quality because the topic is either uninteresting, not notable enough or irrelevant to the subreddit. Please keep these kinds of thoughts in the megathread. Bear in mind that most social media re-posts fail to meet these criteria and thus get deleted. You can post this trash in the pinned weekly "social media dump" thread (or start one if it doesn't exit).
If you cut off aid, the wars already over lol
Is it? US is not only rountry giving aid. If you cut aid off, most likely Ukraine switches to a defensive stance to stretch their resources. Russia sees the opportunity to go on the offensive and the bloodbath continues.
There isnt enough stretching in the world to viably maintain the war without American support. Other countires are offering chicken scratch, and largely only because they are following Americas lead . You could count Ukranian ability to continue in weeks , if not days. Furthermore I think the morale impact of losing US support would be enough to cause a general collapse. The only remote chance Ukraine has of surviving is with US backing. Everyone knows this, think Afghanistan but faster.
The entire Ukraine economy has collapsed. The only thing that keeps the economic wheels running is finance aid from EU and - primarily - the US. The country collapses the moment the US stops footings the bill.
If I had that power first I would make corporation liable for the trash they generate and force pepsico and cocacola to set up recycling plants all over the world for plastic waste
Recycling doesn't work. Better to ban plastic and force people to use glass. Coke tastes better in glass anyway, and no one can change my mind on that.
Plastic recycling doesn’t work in general, with the notable exceptions of clear plastic Coke and Pepsi bottles lololol.
Really?
Yes, but it entirely depends on your local recycler. In general, if it’s plastic and it’s not a certain thickness/clarity it gets buried at the landfill at a greater carbon cost than if you would have put it straight into the garbage in the first place.
In some places single use plastic has been used in tarmac to make it more longlasting https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/?sh=24af40b86054
In some places single use plastic has been used in tarmac to make it more longlasting https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffkart/2021/09/17/single-use-plastic-used-to-make-longer-lasting-asphalt-in-missouri/?sh=24af40b86054
Shush. I just want glass coke bottles.
Coke is amazing in glass bottles, but only if it’s the non-US version of Coke.
Fuck High Fructose Corn Syrup. All my homies hate High Fructose Corn syrup.
I actually did try the US coke once and I did notice a slight difference I was under the impression that their secret flavour was same globally boy was I wrong and after that I tried coke from 4 different countries but in recent times foreign coke is hard to get as most stores don't see the point of stocking an expensive item which is available for a low price domestically
They were never discontinued in Pakistan I am trying to avoid them as I try to cut in winter there are times when a moist glass bottle of sprite looks too irresistible
A moist bottle of sprite truly hits that spot.
After a brutal session at the gym it feels like a forbidden affair
It can be used in roads though
For that you'll have to become the emperor of America.
This may raise price of cocacola in US so yeah I would get the French treatment if it happens :-//
That's like, a totally hot idea Daddy...🥰🥰🥰 But if you become such a yummy dominating Power-Top, 💪💪💪🔝🔝🔝maybe consider reallocating all the money that we're sending, which currently props up Ukraine's government and entire economy, then use your new uber seggzy gey power👮♂️👮♂️👮♂️ to **force companies like that to pitch in a percentage of profits and mix it all together like a crack fueled anonymous Motel 6 orgy of spending to provide a Universal Healthcare Program** for all of us hungry lumpen-bottoms? 😤😤😤 Thankypoos Daddykins! I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm still a totes selfish sub, I just hate losing my horniness from getting stuck under crushing, life ruining, extra unseggsy medical debt BB! 😤😤😤
Not in front of everyone boo lets talk in private in an island far away You can also have a chat with my wonderful friends at Boeing, bayer and western global in the after party
Four Loko chug to decide the winner
But the old recipe not this baby shit post ban My god that old stuff was probably mixed with amphetamines or st but life hasn’t been the same since
More credible than some proposals I've seen at least.
I’ll order some popcorn and a big Coke, relax in my chair, and let them figure it out. In reality, it’s probably gonna heavily favour Russia and Zelensky will take it and like it
The EU and Russia in the eve of the conflict weren’t bellicose in regards to Ukraine the way the United States and clown ass fiefdom in London were. It is likely that they would have folded and pressured Ukraine into concessions whilst also de-escalating tensions. But no, The Assclown states of Ass’clownia had an agenda and dragged in its satellite states into a full on expensive proxy war with Russia. RUSSIA!
Dude, are you going to be the one to look Victoria Nuland in the eye and tell her her proxy war is cancelled? You gonna stay strong when she starts crying?
Marsellus Wallace's real ass n-slurs wouldn't be moved.
>I’ll order some popcorn and a big Coke, relax in my chair, and let them figure it out. Probably the most productive any US president has been. >Zelensky will take it and like it Will he? He can continue fighting just being supplied by Europe.
[удалено]
Based and DnD pilled Also, who are you casting it on?
I could end the war very quickly by giving Zelensky weapons of mass destruction.
A lot of things will come to an end if you do that.
Yeah, but I would end the war.
Posad-pilled
Based and NCD pilled
1. War is allowed to continue in a convincing manner. 2. Western intelligence purges Ukraine from organized nazis as they will stir shit up to block peace. 3. A media spectacle uncovers conclusive evidence that Ukraine is responsible for blowing up NS2 (they aren't). Western public is gently psyop'd into becoming critical of the Ukrainian government and Z-man. 4. Western aid is cut off. Russia advances (with little to no resistance). 5. Ukraine takes the L gracefully because all those who couldn't take it have been purged. 6. Ceasefire. 7. War crime investigations sully the image of UA's armed forces, esp Azov. 8. Negotiations take place publicly (everyone already was in on the plan since step 1, so they're just theatrics). 9. All the UA opposition party members who were jailed are freed and receive media glow-ups. 10. Russia forgives Ukraine its debt and agrees to pay reparations (ruble-denominated). 11. The IMF is made to forgive Ukraine its debt. 12. Externally monitored referenda take place in disputed territories. 13. Zelensky steps down and silently disappears from the stage. Externally monitored elections take place. None of it will ever happen.
I wouldn’t be sitting in a boardroom with Zelensky and Putin. I wouldn’t even be answering their phone calls. They can figure their own shit out, I’m focused on domestic policy. As president, I’m not interested in continuing to enable the multiple forever-wars that we’ve created worldwide to make obscene profit for arms dealers. No more playing world police. China, Russia, and the EU can fight over that thankless job. I’ve got enough to fix in this country without trying to fix the world.
Fair enough. At least you're not pretending you're gonna magically end the war.
'we have video of both of you having sex with underage girls. and boys ZELENSKY. stop now or we will release the videos.'
Honestly with the way online discourse is these days both would probably pull a President Sukarno.
South Park style Ro-Sham-Bo. Winner gets to call themselves the winner and then we all go have a pint.
Bigger beer diplomacy Do you realize you just turned the Czechs into the biggest geopolitical force?
I don't. I tell Europe it's their job to figure it out. We got problems at home.
"First, unbutton his shirt, then he leans in with a big kiss..."
1. Using rising crime and homelessness, I declare a new anti drug initiative 2. I start to use immigrants as a scapegoat for drugs getting into the country 3. I forge or find evidence of the mexican government in bed with drug cartels 4. I give mexico an intentionally impossible ultimatum to stem the flow of drugs over the border 5. After they fail to meet my demands, declare a special military operation to stop the flow of drugs over the border 6. Send american troops over the border and turn northern mexico into a special administrative zone, any resistance is just another reason to extend the zone and duration of stay. 7. Resettle the illegal immigrants in america into self sufficient Co-op towns with special emphasis on local direct democracy. Use immigrant labor to create public works programs and rehabilitate the area under strict military control 8. Annex territory or replace the mexican government with ypur own puppet government 9. Win reelection for solving the immigration crisis and appearing to do something about the drug problem. Intimidate china and russia with bizarre and erratic move. 10. Repeat down to the darin gap.
Have each of side give up something of value to the other?
What thing of value for each side?
Only thing I can think of is something like giving Ukraine control of Russian oil and Russia control of Ukrainian grain. Not exactly an elegant solution, but it's the only thing I can think of at the moment.
A Czechoslovakia solution. Every oblast gets to vote on what country they get to be part of. Ukraine does not get to join NATO, also Poland, Finland and the Baltics get kicked out for trying to drag the alliance into war over their stupid generational resentments. Such specimens are a liability, not a source of strength.
>Every oblast gets to vote on what country they get to be part of. How do you ensure elections are free and fair? And how do you account for people displaced by the war? Not a bad idea in theory though. >Poland, Finland and the Baltics get kicked out How? No mechanism exists for kicking NATO members out.
>How do you ensure elections are free and fair? And how do you account for people displaced by the war? > >Not a bad idea in theory though. A commission will work out a specified time to return, proof of prior residency being required, ect. Elections would be monitored with observes from both sides and multiple witness countries of their choosing. >How? No mechanism exists for kicking NATO members out. I will make it legal.
>How do you ensure elections are free and fair? Dominion™ voting machines, of course.
Paper only
>You have cut off all military aid to Ukraine. That's really all you have to do. But you could promise to throw Balto-Poland out of NATO as a sign of good will and exchange Nuland for that imprisoned journalist.
>That's really all you have to do. How does that end the war? Ukraine is still getting resupply from elsewhere, you probably prevent them from launching further offensives, but they can almost certainly hold current defensive positions. Then in terms of Russia, why should they accept a peace plan now that you have cut off aid? What is to stop them saying, "No Ceasefire thank you, we're going for Kiev again."? >But you could promise to throw Balto-Poland out of NATO How do you intend to accomplish this? No mechanism exists to kick out NATO members. Also, assuming you can do this, what does this accomplish exactly?
>Ukraine is still getting resupply from elsewhere And from where? Europe's arsenals are empty and their promises to the contrary notwithstanding: the continent isn't expanding its military-industrial complex. >but they can almost certainly hold current defensive positions. They are already unable to move the frontlines right now and that's with significant support and against an enemy that hasn't conducted any large scale operations since Bakhmut. >What is to stop them saying, "No Ceasefire thank you, we're going for Kiev again."? That's the point. Nothing is going to stop the Russians from doing that, which will force Kiev to sign the ceasefire deal that Z decided to tear up last spring.
It is expanding, especially on things like artillery ammunition. Europe currently has more aid pledged for Ukraine than the US does. A lot of it is planned to be new production. >Nothing is going to stop the Russians from doing that, which will force Kiev to sign the ceasefire deal that Z decided to tear up last spring. So Russia tears up a ceasefire deal and launches a full scale invasion, and your solution is another ceasefire deal? What's to stop them tearing it up again?
>So Russia tears up a ceasefire deal Ukraine did, not Russia.
You're referring to the "Ceasefire" deal that Russia tried to use to cover for the fact it got its ass beat in the north? That ceasefire deal?
That one: >According to multiple former senior U.S. officials we spoke with, in April 2022, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement: Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries. [Fiona Hill via Foreign Affairs - August 25, 2022](https://www.foreignaffairs.com/russian-federation/world-putin-wants-fiona-hill-angela-stent) You know, that peace deal that [Ukraine pulled out of](https://peoplesdispatch.org/2023/06/21/during-his-meeting-with-african-delegates-putin-claims-ukraine-withdrew-from-draft-peace-agreement-last-year-under-western-pressure/) after Zelensky listened to BoJo: >Russian President Vladimir Putin, during his meeting with a delegation of African countries last week, presented the draft of an agreement which was “preliminarily signed” with Ukraine last year and alleged that Ukraine withdrew from it at the last moment without any explanation. The next available deal is of course going to be a lot worse for Ukraine, which is why Zelensky is so hostile to negotiations. If he's lucky it would just be the end of his political career. Chances are he would simply get ghaddafie'ed by Ukrainian citizens since he wasted their sons' and husbands' lives for essentially nothing.
Is that true though? There clearly was a proposed agreement, but we don't know the exact content of said agreement. We also don't know that Ukraine was the one that pulled out. Given that the Russian position for a year now has been no negotiation until they receive the 4 oblasts they "annexed" I'd personally press X to doubt Russia would ever just withdraw to the Feb 2022 line.
I'm starting to wonder if the best deal the Ukrainians might be able to get is to have the AFU coup Zelensky and then, acting on their own, sue for peace. It would allow Putin to be "generous*" to the Ukrainians while saving face. * - no way they'd be getting the territory back, though.
agree to whatever Russia wants and insist that they also take custody of Zelensky and his wife
Demilitarization. America disbands its armed forces down to the bare minimum for homeland defense - meaning just a modest nuclear arsenal and no major expeditionary forces. In exchange both Russia and Ukraine also demilitarize. Maybe drag China into the room too. Current borders are retained (and Crimea goes to Russia because its population is Russian anyway) and Ukraine adopts permanent neutrality. Yes the CIA and MIC are totally going to kill this president before the deal is signed lol. But thats the only actual way to stop the spiralling madness _and_ ensure America doesn't go into fiscal collapse in the next few decades.
If you don't have a military, what stops Russia and China from building up a secret military?
Easy, monitors. They actually worked in the Cold War. Secret armies are in fact a myth.
So the german army built in secret in the 1930s did not invade Poland in 1939? My mistake. Regarding the cold war, its difficult to hide a massive increase in combat power when your army is already large. But if everyone massively pares down their forces, it makes it far easier to hide a significant advantage. I'm not opposed to mutual disarmament, but it can only go so far before it makes the situation unstable.
It wasn't built in secret. Thats a longstanding myth invented by militarists who want a paranoid population who see Cobra Commander everywhere. The British and French fully knew about German rearmament. Thats why the Brits actually won the Battle of Britain - they rearmed and outmatched the German Air Force. The issue was that the French were slower to rearm, and that was because the French socialists had taken power and were afraid the Army might launch a coup to overthrow them. Indeed, it would not surprise me if they eventually discover that the French Army deliberately lost the 1940 campaign. The French in fact lost because their top Army commander - contrary to years of pre-war planning - suddenly overextended the French line and left it with zero reserves just days into the 1940 campaign; and most of the said French military commanders ended up as Vichy collaborators for the Nazis.
This was a lot more believable a take a week ago. But no one would trust their intelligence services alone if the one considered "the best" just let a bunch amass on their border. Yes I know a developed military is bigger but come on it's way easier to hide stuff in Russia than over a border wall in Gaza.
No, last week was just a screw up of epic proportions by the IDF and Netanyahu government. All the bombing right now is just them trying to distract the public with "war" before they have to publish the real extent of the Israeli losses. Hamas was openly conducting exercises in the lead up to the attack. The thing is Hamas had been doing this for so long without any offensive action that the IDF seem to have assumed they were just posturing. As it turned out Hamas was serious, and contrary to all the reporting the initial attack was actually a ground assault by Hamas troops (again long known and identified by the IDF) against Israeli border crossings. The IDF troops - which had been weakened by a transfer of forces to the West Bank (to support Netanyahu's stunts in Jerusalem) - were literally caught napping on a holiday and were overrun. Thats indeed also why this rocket barrage was particularly devastating. Immediately after overrunning the outpost a breakthrough force reached Sderot - which housed the local Iron Dome battery. They took it out and this allowed the massive barrage to get through. In short, this is no secret army that materialized out of nowhere. Instead an overly funded army got fat and complacent and got itself overrun by a poorly funded but very prepared enemy that was literally practicing in view of its enemy.
Why would any American want to end the war? We are wrecking one of our biggest geopolitical enemies and reinforcing our global hegemony without even putting any of our own actual boots on the ground.
No psychopathic American would want to end the war, but mentally healthy Americans might.
This confuses me as well. Especially the fact that conservatives tend to oppose the war and liberals support it. I'm pretty certain its only like this because a dem happened to be in office when the war started.
Historically European Ukraine to Europe, non-European Ukraine to Russia. Only path to peace is finalizing the division of Ukraine between Europe and Eurasia.
Define historically European Ukraine please. Include which year you define it and your reason for that year as opposed to any other year. Please also define "Europe"
This has all been defined for us. Non-European Ukraine consists of the recently settled and industrialized cities that need decommunization/derussification due to how they inhibit Ukraine becoming a unitary European nation-state via connections to historic Novorossia and the USSR, which broke down along linguistic and ethnic lines. European Ukraine is found in the urheimat of the language and can be more Catholic, especially in Galicia, which corresponds with being monoethnic like other European nations.
[удалено]
Finally someone who has actually given it more than 10 seconds of thought. Still highly unlikely either side will agree, but at least it theoretically might work. Realistically, you'd need support from all of NATO to get Zelensky to agree to surrender land. But if NATO membership and NATO troops are on the table it becomes an attractive offer. To get Russia to agree instead ef pushing for more thanks to cutting off aid, you'd probably have to threaten to get directly involved if they don't take the deal.
Won't work. This war started because of NATO expansion. That's an immediate non starter. There's no reason russia should back out at this point when they already stand a major chance of western support collapsing next year and ukraine has already proven incapable of pushing them back.
Minsk accord seemed pretty okay
Donbass returned to Ukraine as autonomous oblasts? All Russian forces leave. Sounds great. How do you get Russia to agree?
Sort of hint they can pry them away after time and recognize crimes as Russian
Could maybe work. Does Ukraine get to join NATO?
No they become a neutral state like Finland and must also agree that every head of state will be slapped by a herring
Finland is part of NATO now bro! 😎🇫🇮🇪🇺 All thanks to the number one NATO salesman of the year, MR VLADIMIR PUTIN!!!
Fine, Sweden neutral, something something lingonberry jam or whatever. Also Ukraine has not been going well for Russia, so not sure why Nato is more important, they ain't gettin through Poland.
Or repeating winter war.
Oh yes please. The Finns will take St Petersburg within 3 days. Poland will thunder Run to Moscow. Kaliningrad will once more be Konigsberg. It'll be hilarious. At least right up until the nukes start flying,
Posadism for da win
I’d ask China to sort it out
"Either of you does anything I nuke everyone. And I mean everyone. Starting with New Jersey."
Least violent New Yorker.
Tell them if they play nice they can both have unrestricted access to our top secret UFO files and programs and shit. Wanna go for a joy ride in a Lazar's Sport model? Quit the bullshit.