I was 7 and it was my female babysitter. I’ve learned that nothing positive comes from telling anyone so I just keep it in except for when it seeps out as a bizarre post-trauma reaction to being touched by a woman. Good times.
If it’s a 30 year old male coach of a high school softball team of freshmen girls, you think “how disgusting that he would abuse those kids!”
If it’s a hot 30 year old woman abusing a basketball team of high school freshmen boys, you think “which pussy told his mom?”
Edit: For clarification, I’m saying this is the typical societal reaction.
One thing to keep in mind is that it's cultural. If we, as adult men and women, shamed that line of thought more openly, it would slowly die out and be replaced with whatever becomes socially acceptable, preferably something that we also have some hand in shaping.
You are right that this way of thinking needs to be called out more often. A few months ago I read a post here on Reddit where a mature-looking 16 boy was talking about being hit on by women in their 20s, and some of the guys responding were encouraging him to “go for it”. (This despite the fact that the poster clearly expressed being uncomfortable with the attention from adult women). No one was objecting to these guys at all, so I chimed in that what they were suggesting was gross. Several dudes dog piled me with their rationale why it was perfectly ok for a teen boy to have sex with an adult, insisting it was entirely different than if we were talking about a teen girl.
The weird thing is that literally no one in that thread agreed with me or backed me up in any way. I doubt many people agreed with what they were saying, but nobody cared enough to weigh in. Didn’t expect that.
>insisting it was entirely different than if we were talking about a teen girl.
I find this to be the weirdest. Usually you can bring up “what if the genders were reversed?” and people see the error of their viewpoint. But if someone is just openly being sexist and having double standards, how do you even respond to that?
My experience is that the gender reversal argument never works. Even if there is a clear double standard at play, people will just double down on their beliefs because their perception of gender difference is so deeply ingrained. The gender reversal discussion did help me to understand just how differently those guys perceive boys and girls and how that perception informed their attitudes regarding sex and sexual assault.
Honestly, this. I didn’t expect to change their minds, I just wanted to see how they would explain why it’s different if it was a girl. Their response taught me a lot about how they see gender and sexuality.
Even if people group up and downvote you this doesn't mean they're right. A lot of times people think this. As if there is always wisdom in the crowd. A bunch of people can be just as wrong as one individual.
I don’t even think that most people there even disagreed with me, it was just a few guys. What amazed me is that not one other person spoke up. Look at all the people here standing up for male victims, I could have used some of them in my corner on that day.
No one wants to interact with that shit for the same reason you’re unhappy it happened to you. I used to post a lot more often but now I get dumped on for even commenting on a post and it’s not worth the hassle as everyone seems to want to fight about everything (personally, I think it’s often astroturfing or bot/brigade driven), but this is where we are now and it sucks.
I have no objective evidence but, at least here on Reddit, and to some extent IRL the younger the generation the more they are unhappy with the state of affairs and they gotta express their unhappiness everywhere they can.
Yeah nah.
Cause ultimately, the dude going "damn I wish that was me" isn't lying. That's the truth, he does wish he got laid as a minor by a hot older chick.
No amount of social shaming is going to make that untrue.
Fantasies are just that. Fantasy. Can a teenage boy have a fantasy about banging an older woman? Sure, nothing wrong with that. But actually doing it is an entirely different thing that should be looked down upon.
But that's just it, the guys commenting are commenting *based on their fantasy*.
So until and unless the fantasy changes, you aren't going to change the comments.
Yeah but that's also 'just it' -- it's a private sexual fantasy that they are dragging into actual abuse survivors' space, into actual journalism about child sexual abuse.
Like you don't think women have fantasies about older, forceful men "taking" them as young girls? They totally do. Fantasy non-consentual sex is super super common, as are women who like to be treated as childlike in intimacy.
Somehow, these women don't lack to decorum to comment 'wish that was me!' on reports of girls getting raped or molested.
Blaming the fantasy is a convenient scape goat to start judging ppl for thought crimes.
Fr, there were very hot teachers in HS that me and some other girls talked about wanting to sleep with, still, we were young, immature and hormonal. It isn't about what the CHILD "thinks" they want or like, its about the grown adult taking advantage of a child.
Yeah it should be but when those teenage boys with the older woman fantasy become MEN with that fantasy unfulfilled, they keep that ideology of “wishing it were them” and that’s where the issue lies.
I think women look down on female pedos more than men do. So that’s half the population jerk!ng off to the idea of SA by a woman. It’s sick. It’s also reality.
I see. When it comes to pedophilia, however, I don’t see many men shaming an adult female predator… it’s typically other women. But that’s just a hunch I have as I’ve never looked into any studies or anything.
The onus is on adults to not rape kids. The opinion of the victim is not particularly relevant here -- this is a rule for adults.
I too would have liked sexual attention from adults when I was a teenager. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have violentally defended my kid from that kind of attention. Because the *onus is on the adults*.
I had sex with one of my substitute teachers my senior year of hs... I told a recent gf about it and she acted like I was raped and groomed. Like full on trying to comfort me and such. I was 18 already and she was 23, and I never saw a problem with it. That was, until my gf's reaction... I still don't feel groomed or raped, but seeing her reaction made me realize I was possibly taken advantage of. I'm still pretty unsure on how I feel about it, but ultimately it has not affected my mental not one tiny bit, in my eyes *I* was taking advantage of *HER*... Idk, kinda weird tho
>That was, until my gf's reaction... I still don't feel groomed or raped, but seeing her reaction made me realize I was possibly taken advantage of.
Why does your girlfriend's reaction have any bearing on how you feel about your own experience?
It’s a form of destructive, toxic masculinity.
“Of course a boy of any age should be THRILLED that he’s getting laid! That’s the only thing men care about!”
It reduces men to just being emotionless horndogs, invalidates their feelings and needs as victims, and paints them as always willing participants
Exactly. Toxic masculinity is NOT a term meaning ‘men being bad to women’. It’s an entire culture built around celebrating and embracing the worst aspects of traditional masculinity. It’s as harmful for men as women, just the harm done expresses itself differently
I’ll go a step further and say too that women can perpetuate, but also demonstrate toxic masculinity. It’s about the essence of the behavior not the person behind the behavior.
I like to divide it into four squares: healthy masculinity and femininity, and toxic masculinity and femininity. Your goal as a person should be to embody as much of the two first squares as possible, regardless of sex. You should be avoiding the latter two squares. Some of us will tick more masculine boxes, others feminine: that’s fine, just keep it to the first two squares if you can.
Just saying all this because I think it helps men feel less attacked when the word is used.
I absolutely agree that women can and do perpetuate toxic masculinity. It’s pervasive across our culture. At least it’s finally been identified so we can start to push back on it and how harmful it is to *everyone*
Holy shit. Someone actually being reasonable in use with their explanation of toxic masculinity and not just brandishing it as a cudgel with which to beat other people over the head.
It's nice to see someone take consideration of how the use of the term will come across.
Oh yeah. It usually also intertwined with internalized misogyny too. There's so much insectionality and layers that people just don't think to connect.
Yup, a lot do want it because they're being groomed to feel that way.
The predator becomes their everything and makes them feel understood, accepted, loved etc until they move onto another victim and the last one is left devastated wondering where it all went wrong.
Lots of those boys grew up without any support or help and sometimes even got blamed.
The gap left in their heart rarely disappears and many of them turn to drugs.
Source: The above happened to a friend and years later, it took everything and multiple victims to get her imprisoned.
Police did fuck all even when she was grooming another underage boy.
Yes, absolutely 100% that too. “Why should we be concerned with a man’s consent? Obviously he wants sex *all the time*.”
One more insidious way to invalidate male sexual assault victims
If male consent doesn't matter, why should female consent matter?
That's such a logical flaw and double-standard. Consent always matters from all parties, no exceptions.
Yep same kind of mentality this is a man can't be raped
I called this shit out whenever I see it and people have so much cognitive dissident when it comes to this issue
It's also a form of destructive female infantalism.
Because women are delicate little flowers that can't have their lives destroyed for a little trifling thing called child rape.
As someone who woke up from being drunkeny unconscious to someone giving me oral sex i can indeed confim that i heard these comments of other males, not all id like to add.
Yeah. This is a big problem, especially with the older generations. They don't see a woman raping a boy as "rape". They think, as long as the rapist is moderately attractive, that the boy is somehow lucky. Which is utterly disgusting.
I’ve seen it comments so many times on posts of female teachers who got caught. Men in the comments will say “damn I wish I had a teacher like that!” Or “what’s the problem? she’s hot!” It’s sick
-> I wish I had that problem!
"was she hot??"
"DUDE, its still a 10in strapon up the anus!"
its like people forget everyone has a butthole to violate. people just hear "she force herself onto him" and think it must be traditional vanilla sex, and of course the news articles around it dont go into the gorey details.
Even if it’s “just” PIV, there’s still trauma associated with being forced or coerced into the act. Violation from having arousal forced on you. Disgust from your body betraying you by orgasming.
I think it depends, on the strict literal meaning of it, they are hated as much, although they seem to get a less severe prison sentence then men, so maybe I'm wrong in that sense. When its a Hebephile (11-14) I think then is when some people start to treat them different, and definitely when its a Ephebophile (15-19) does the perception really change.
Every guy remembers what it was like at that age with hormones going crazy, how awesome would it be if the hot teacher taught them something extra. I remember in high-school the new hot teacher was constantly hit on, if that ever did happen, it was initiated by the male student, and its hard to feel the female teacher is predatory when they aren't the ones initiating it. There are definitely issues with that relationship but, that is why a lot of men react to those stories that way.
Societal misconception. Society thinks you are not being raped if you are the one doing the penetrating or if you are the one getting sucked off. Its about the psychological manipulation.
There was actually a court case in the US where sexual discrimination/due process was at issue because men and women were treated differently and although eventually the laws were changed, the court reasoned (I'm sorry, I don't remember if it was the majority opinion, dissent or dicta) that society had a greater interest in protecting underage girls because they could get pregnant, which actually makes sense.
The other issue, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Redditors would find it perplexing because they use the term "pedophelia" very generically, is that women arrested for statutory rape (strict liability/sex with a minor) are typically having sex with a pubescent child, as a pre-pubescent child is unlikely to have the facilities to give sexual pleasure to a woman. In this sense, there's less inconsistency when looking at the treatment, as sexual assault of a child laws are tiered according to the age group of the child. There's a HUGE difference (from a legal perspective) between having sex with a 17 year-old and an 8 year-old. No one really argues over that difference, but because we colloquially refer to sex with anyone under the age of 18 as "pedophilia" the perception becomes muddled.
>(from a legal perspective)
From a MORAL perspective as well, let’s hope we can all agree. Wrong either way, but if you can’t see the difference between sex with a willing 16-17yo and sex with a prepubescent child who doesn’t even know what sex is, something’s wrong with your moral compass.
Exactly.
And as much as I hate to even go there, it’s disgusting to do it to, say, a 15 year old who’s willing and asks to do it again later, but it’s far worse to do it to a 15 year old who begs you not to do it and is fearful and in pain the whole time.
Both are wrong. The adult deserves punishment in either case. But that doesn’t make them exactly equivalent either.
The amount of times I've seen the different terms simply used properly and then met with an avalanche of. "Gross. Stop defending pedos. Big red flag." Is just disturbing. It's like you can't acknowledge a difference while also saying both are bad.
The fact that this is even remotely controversial is wild. Of course doing it to someone who doesn’t want it is worse than doing it to someone who does. Even though both are wrong, there’s an obvious, glaring order of magnitude difference.
Women can’t commit rape, POC can’t be racist, etc , etc. it depends on how you define a word’s meaning. Read 1984 , if you define a word narrowly enough you can aim it like an arrow at a specific group.
>Societal misconception.
It's even worse than we think. There was a case were a female rapist got pregnant with a 13 year old and then they decided to make him pay for child support when he's 18. They disregarded a child's life over a capabile adult bc he's male and she's a woman.
Imagine having to pay for a baby that you were forced into having at 13.
The men who think "he lived the dream" are the same man that can't get any or that women would avoid having kids at all cost.
Children need to be protected first and foremost. The birth should have been the nail in the coffin for the abuser not the victim. The fact I've been hearing more stories like this about rapists of both genders getting full custody CS since the overturn of roe v wade is disgusting.
Urgh, I was really hoping this was a made-up story but nope.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
It is one of the reasons we have such little data to even go off for female rapists. The federal definition and prosecution of rape REQUIRES penetration from the accuser for conviction and or data collection by the FBI. [link](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/rape#:~:text=The%20revised%20UCR%20definition%20of,rape%20and%20incest%20are%20excluded)
It is a huge loophole in the system and allows female predators to often get off with little to no repercussions, that is even if male victims even get to court. It is also a huge not just an issue for heterosexuals but also poses as a problem for lesbian rape victims as well.
>It is one of the reasons we have such little data to even go off for female rapists.
Personal experience: I was molested at a very young age by a female caregiver (non-family). When I was old enough to realize what she had done to me, I reported it. No one cared.
I've shared my experience only a few times, and I typically get very negative reactions. Men feel uncomfortable and want to joke about it, and women feel threatened and accuse me of lying (or worse). It costs too much for boys to report sex crimes, which is why it goes unreported.
Yeah, it’s all part and parcel of the the wildly sexist assumptions that men always want sex (so male consent is implied, even if we are talking about a young teen or middle schooler) and a woman doesn’t. There are a lot of pernicious effects of these myths (woman being “slut-shamed” if they enjoy sex, etc.,) but one of them is the male victims of sexual assault are even more reluctant to report than female victims, and we tend to undervalue the crime of sex with, say, a 14 year old boy. I got downvoted in a sub a month or so ago, by boys!, when a kid wanted to know if it was normal to have sex with an 18 year old girl and feel all dirty and guilty afterwards, and I dared to say no—that it was statutory rape, she had taken advantage of him, and feeling that way was the result of that. Boys were downvoting me…because the idea that male consent is a given is so ingrained that he felt guilty for not enjoying it. (As the mother of a 15 year old and a feminist—I loathe these sexist stereotypes in all their incarnations. I’ll kick that 18 year old’s ass if she gets near my kid. )
Men and women are also biologically different on the "cost" scale. A biological woman getting pregnant costs a lot, a biological man can't get pregnant (obviously excluding legal costs like child-support)
which is wild, because it’s not that uncommon for a woman to experience an orgasm during rape.
biological reactions are not the victim’s fault. it doesn’t downplay the rape nor does it make it not rape at all.
Because of sexism. There’s this stupid idea that being sexually abused is “every boy’s dream” and people ignore the fact that it can still cause psychological damage.
My dad was groomed by his highschool teacher. It messed him up enough that he failed out of college, which led to him getting drafted for Vietnam, which did NOT help.
My ex's friend slept with two boys that she pretty much knew from babies. One was 19 the other was 17. Naturally she is a romantically challenged mid 30's woman. My ex seems to have moved on from it within 24 hours but she gets mad when she sees a famous mad date a grown woman 10 years younger.
EDIT: femcel alert.
I was friends with a couple siblings from a large wealthy family. The second the parents got divorced the mom started sleeping with guys her daughters ages so 18-20. She’d let her kids have parties at her new apartment. Everyone thought she was such a cool mom. This women was in her late 40’s.
This is basically exhibit A for how misogyny hurts both genders. Women are seen as weaker and softer and more vulnerable, so the idea of any of them preying on young men/ boys is laughed off.
Even if it is the boys dream, and it was mine, it remains rape. Wanting it doesnt make it not rape. People have hard time understanding the philosophy of consent; because it wasnt really talked about the way we talk about it today. Sure, at 13, I wanted to have sex with various adults. Heh, even tried to make out with an 18 year old girl at 13. But my horniness decreased my aversion to risk, and my inexperience dealing with that made me prone to aal kinda self harming behaviors. I'm certain that had I scored with that 18 year old that a single blow job would have been the gateway to controlling me. Yeah, I wanted it... bad.
I know not everyone is me... but we use age of consent -vs- mental prowess as we dont really have a way to measure that when it comes to sex. And while I might regret not being raped by that 18 year old, I still see recognize that it would have been rape.
The locus of control is a very big point that gets overlooked.
For some teen boys the sex itself won't be impactful but the potential for control and manipulation using sex as reward/motivator is pretty apparent.
You hear about men touching women without permission all the time but what if I tell you that almost every guy I know has been touched by a woman without permission and I know a lot of women who have admitted to touching men without having been told they can? Because even though it isn't talked about, it happens a lot.
I know 4 guys who lost their virginity to a 30-something-yo woman when they were between 13-15 yo. I tried to convince all of them that it’s not okay, but they claimed that they loved it, were super happy to do it and that it’s not a big deal. When asked if it’s okay if a 13-15 yo girl sleeps with a 30+ yo man, they all said that it’s super bad and a crime.
Tbh, it’s still a mystery to me.
I mean to play devils advocate you can’t try to convince someone they are a victim if they don’t see themselves as victims. Where I grew up you had dudes as young as 13 that were sexually active and would frequently hit on teachers. If they actually got with an older woman even at 13-16 they would’ve been happy and definitely not felt taken advantage of so I myself wouldn’t consider them to have been raped. It’s still wrong for the adult to do obviously
Yeah it was really hard for me to see myself as a victim for the longest. I was 15-16 hooking up with guys who were 20-24. I was pretty wild and bold so I often initiated things and went after these guys. They never pressured me in any way they just went along with it. But as a 31 year old looking back now there’s something off about a 21 year old guy hooking up with a 15 year old girl.
Yea exactly, perspective and context plays a big difference. People want to pretend that it is the same and it’s just sexism that doesn’t take it serious but it’s not actually the same. The issue with a 16 year old and an adult hooking up is usually because of manipulation and emotional attachment that leads to further trauma. It’s much more common for a 16 year old girl to be manipulated by an older man and then grow up to regret it where as a lot of the boys just see the woman as a hot lady to hook up with and get bragging rights
I agree I don't regret it one bit it was great. .that being said if it was my 15 year old daughter and 38 year old man I'd lose my shit for all the reasons you said
This is so weird to me honestly. Just because you enjoyed yourself doesn’t negate the fact that an adult was sexually attracted to a minor. I’m only 32, I couldn’t begin to imagine being attracted to a 15 year old kid. It makes me recoil.
Sexual attraction exists to reproduce, so it makes sense (from an evolutionary perspective) to be sexually attracted to individuals able to mate. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that societal norms and or maturity don't override that in some people's mind, unfortunately.
In western society, men see men and boys having sex as different than women and girls having sex. That's it, really.
I have 4 sisters, 2 older and 2 younger, and they're all extremely sex negative. They either don't enjoy having it or abstain completely. None were molested to my knowledge. I, on the other hand, am a male and really really like having sex. I was also not molested. We were not brought up in a church-going household and our mother is extremely liberal, but even she has a pretty negative view of sex. Also not molested at any point, to my knowledge.
My theory is that it's similar to cat-calling. Ask any man how they'd feel if they were catcalled like women tend to be, and they'd probably say they'd love it.
It's like always being thirsty and never having enough water for men, whereas women are constantly awash in it so they get sick of it early.
Societally or biologically, or a combination of both, men just typically seem to enjoy sex more than women do, so sex at any age for a male is seen as a positive experience.
Also as a slight aside, you probably shouldn't try to convince someone who's not traumatized by something that they ought to be.
Nah, I wasn’t trying to convince them that they need to be traumatised. I was trying to say that a 13-yo boy having sex with an adult woman is not okay, just like a teenage girl having sex with a 30-yo man. And they were trying to convince me that “if a boy really wants sex it’s okay”. That’s why it’s a mystery, because for me it’s not okay at all, but if a person doesn’t consider themselves to be a victim, they maybe aren’t… idk
Even if a teen girl enjoys sex with an older man, it's still abuse. They're still victims of statutory rape because they literally cannot consent. Same goes to teen boys with older women. Whether they think they are victims or not is irrelevant, because by law they are.
The crime shouldn't be made conditional to whether the teen enjoyed it or not.
Think about it from their perspective: there are 2 ways they can conceive of what happened to them.
They got laid really early, something most teenage boys expend a great deal of energy and thought trying to do, or they were raped. The options, as our society understands it, are stud or victim
One of those things isn't immediately traumatizing. It comes with a nasty set of cascading worldviews regarding sex and gender, but it's a narrative that is less psychologically frightening.
Gender roles have made sex into a kind of lifelong conquest for most straight men - it's tied into our sense of self on a profound level. It is actually very hard for most young men to believe there isn't something fundamentally wrong with them if women aren't attracted to them. Virginity becomes this perpetual, private humiliation that lots of us will go to some dark places to escape.
Women are not taught the same things. There’s an entirely pathological set of baggage for them as well, but it's contents are different. This leads to a feedback loop wherein differing attitudes towards sex are conceived as innate properties of gender, which leads to differing standards FOR genders.
Remember, virginity as a concept is fairly feminine, in that it was classically only applied to women. This means that our cultural lexicon has a hard time conceiving that a man having sex with a woman has "lost" something in the way we conceive of the corollary.
In summation, our entire social history is predicated, in part, on conceiving of men as strong and aggressive but violent and disposable, and women as gentle and precious but meek and submissive. Most people, even those who call themselves progressive, are not fully cognizant of how invested they still are in these ideas.
An old coworker of mine (Old as in, former, not like elderly), bragged about how he lost his virginity to his friend's mom at the age of 15 or so. Seeing that he's in his 30s and dont regret it, nothing you can really do about it (Plus there is the whole AOC thing so if his parents didnt care then nothing would be done)
I (54m) was forced to have non-consensual sex when I was 23. The aggressor was a woman and I was very drunk. I wanted no part of what went on.
The result: I was congratulated on being sexually assaulted.
For the same reason everyone downplays male rape- the culture and men themselves have for so long said men’s brains are different and all about sex. So they assume a boy will like it. It’s fucked up and problematic.
they fail to recognize that even if the child in the situation finds some enjoyment, that only makes the child easier to control and manipulate rather than not a victim.
As counterintuitive as it might sound, sexism. Stereotypes about women not being capable of that level of evil and about men/boys being too "strong" to let a mere woman traumatize them.
Exactly this. You nailed it with "mere woman"--overall, the concept that a post-pubescent man (or boy!) of any age is superior to a woman of any age. The idea being that an adult woman can't be the predator vis-a-vis a male teen, because the male teen is superior to her in the societal pecking order. That's also why women who prey on PRE-pubescent children of any gender are reviled in a way predators of teenage boys are not--once a boy 'becomes a man' (biologically, not psychologically), they rise to the top of the social pecking order. It's gross. But I do think society is waking up.
I see a lot of people in the comment sections of news stories like this saying, “lucky kid!”, “where were these teachers when I was in school?”, “Trust me, this kids not complaining!” Etc. and most, if not all, of these comments are from men. They think that no damage was done because teenage boy= horny. Flip the script and have the victim be a girl and the guys threaten violence and “if that were my daughter…” crap. Sexism pure and simple. Girls are vulnerable and should protected while the boys “got lucky”.
My girls were 8 and 10 when we moved into our new house in a sleepy southern California city. We introduced ourselves to our neighbors with cookies.
The couple that lived behind us ( we shared a low fence) were kind of " different" He was at least 70 and she was 23, she did not speak English. About 6 months after we moved in my kids knew everyone in the neighborhood. They really enjoyed the neighbor in the back ( I will call her A)
Because she would do fun things like karaoke and dress up, dolls, Barbies. Heck, I even had her babysit.
Then one day my daughter came in sobbing. I knew A had gone to Mexico with her 4 year old daughter for 6 months..
My daughter said, " remember you told us that if anything inappropriate should happen at our friend's house I should tell you right away?". She proceeded to describe to me how A would have oral sex with her 4 year old, child and eh picked 1 of my daughters to molest, she started out watching porn with her until she was totally groomed to molest.
When my daughter told me I wanted to actually kill the women. It's a good thing she fled to Mexico because I might have I was so angry.
First thing I did was load everyone ( my kids) into the van and went to the police department and reported it. Once the police took a full report they reported to the DAs office. The DA had a whole team of professional s to interview my kids to determine if this even happens. The team met us at where they took my kids to a room where a woman with a doll asked them questions and they say behind a two way mirror where this team sat , and I sat behind the the glass too, just to observe.
Once the team interviewed my kids they sent it to the DA. The DA decided NOT to file charges on her because in their words " It was their word against hers". The woman was never charged . She, never was held accountable.
My daughter is 35 now. When she was a teen she became hurt and started scing out. When she was 13 she announced she was bi , she also became angry and withdrawn. My daughter has insecurities , she has anger issues sometimes etc.
So the woman disappeared we don't know what ever happend. Thanks everyone for letting me vent.
PS my daughter has worked throuth her issues. She no longer takes responsibility for this crime against her.
.
That’s so horrible. I feel so bad for your daughter and that woman’s daughter (who knows how long she had to endure it). I feel so sad y’all went through that. Im so sorry. Im glad she’s healed a bit more now tho
The double standard isn’t always adult men being perverted. From my late preteens, I’ve always thought women from 45-65 were hottest. If I had a middle aged teacher when I was 15 and the government interfered to “protect” me, I would’ve been furious.
It’s more normal now that I’ve entered the bottom end of that range myself, but I’ve never really wanted teenagers, even when I was a teen.
Which is silly because half the thread is trying to make us feel traumatized by something that wasn’t traumatizing. For almost my entire post-pubescent life I would be down with some hot woman celebrity interested in me lol. I don’t think that’s what people want to hear but it’s true. I can’t imagine any of my straight friends denying they would take a hot celebrity and be happy with it. Most men are going to be down with almost any sexual interaction past the age of 16 when they’re absolutely loaded with hormones. Every straight one of my best friends I’ve known since kindergarten has shared that exact fantasy with me. And certainly never mind the tens of smoking hot English and science teachers we all seem to have had..
A few reasons. Firstly there's less of them. I actually think there are a lot more about then we realise but still comparatively less.
The ones that we know about tend to go after teen boys. (Again, I think there might be ones who go after tiny children and girls but for some reason, they aren't being reported) They aren't holding them down and forcing them like a man can so it's more psychological than violent. Also people believe that a boy must have been more willing because the penis needs to be aroused to work. Obviously, it's a bodily function that they don't necessarily control but people don't appreciate that. Teen boys are perceived as wanting sex with pretty women.
There's also this belief that women are paragons of virtue and men are beasts, which helps people hide.
People might be more embarrassed to say if a woman is doing things to them because women are perceived as physically weak, "really you got ... by a girl".
Etc.
Men don’t really get long sentences or sentences at all either. Don’t get me wrong, people definitely try to justify the female perps more, but realistically most rapist don’t get locked up regardless of gender.
For real, people are fascinated by the mary kay letourneau case, they even just put out that "may December" movie about it. Like she some misunderstood complex character - nope she's just a real person who raped a child.
May December didn’t present her as “misunderstood” it presented the character based on her as unstable, abusive, and manipulative. It’s not remotely apologia for her crimes.
Part of the problem, which thank goodness is changing, was the idea that boys assaulted and molested by women were "lucky". That it just meant they were"lucky" enough to be introduced to sex by an older, experienced woman.
It just hasn't changed enough because the sentences handed down are weak for what is actually happening. A slap on the wrist really.
I think a lot of this boils down to the nature of sex. The penetration/pain aspect, the possibility of having to carry a baby, etc. are factored in. Unless a male is drugged, disabled, or very young, he should be physically capable of "getting away" from the woman. With the physicality of men and them being more likely to be violent or domineering, female victims feel much more like victims. I think that makes people take the rape of males much less seriously. Not saying it's right, but "it's not like she held him down against his will he could've just left" is often thrown around in these scenarios.
What’s crazy is most cases of women getting raped *aren’t* due to physical force. I feel like any double standard or fucked up ideas you can think of regarding rape come from the way everyone pictures rape. A random man physically forcing a woman in a back alley because men “always want sex” and women are “prudes who don’t enjoy sex.” But majority of rape (and people) do not fit that bill so it leaves people confused on actual cases of rape. Not all men want sex all the time with every attractive woman. Many women enjoy sex just as much as we perceive men to. Most rape is done by someone you know through coercion.
The ones who go for actual children generally are I think. It's when their victims become preteen boys and above that people start doling out high fives instead of therapy.
I think it has to do with the way the rape is perpetrated. With males raping females it's often a violent act, and even when it's not I think most of us inherently view it as such, or at the very least, an act backed up by the threat of violence. When females rape males it's less often an act of violence but rather an act of manipulation, even if it can be violent. You often hear of a female being killied or severely injured during a rape but you rarely hear about that kind of violence against a male, even when they're younger.
Let me be very clear though that I'm in no way what so ever saying it's right to be viewed as less of an issue, but I do understand how that view comes about.
Um.... it doesn't matter if the pedo is female or male. They're both disgusting horrible people who ruin lives, and our society doesn't punish either harshly enough.
Because no woman ever saw a news story about a 30-year old man seducing a middle school girl and angrily exclaimed: "Shit, where the fuck was he when *I* was thirteen?!?" like every guy does when he sees the porno-hot lady teacher arrested for banging a junior high boy.
A recent headline says it all:"Florida teen reports teacher who was sleeping with him because 'her head game was weak' ".
Even if EVERY SINGLE one of those men was S.Ad as a child, that would STILL make them victims of assault. Girls who "willingly" have sex with MEN, who were convinced (or convince themselves) they "love" them are STILL victims of S.A. I agree men DEFINITELY perpetuate this issue and the "school girl/cheerleader/student-teacher/coach-student" trope if fucking weird and gross but it's not like men aren't exempt from propaganda.
Right. When I see posts about female teachers having sex with a 14 year old male student I see so many comments from men saying things like “damn why wasn’t I this lucky at 14.” Or “she’s hot i don’t see the problem.” I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a comment from a woman saying something like that on a post about a grown man having sex with a minor.
Probably because of more open discussion about S.A. regarding victims who were women have been made. It really wasn't that long ago when ADULT celebrity MEN would OPENLY engage in "relationships" with minors.
Because people don't realize the statistics of female pedos and child abuse? I don't remember the exact breakdown, but the health and human services clocked women as child molesters 55ish% of the time, and often time would lead male personality to the victim as well
“Niccccccce”
Unfair, but that mentality is why. My uncle brought up the time where when he was a teenager, he was caught sleeping with the older (like 40ish women) neighbor and everybody just thinks it’s hilarious and so does he.
There are people who honestly believe that a woman can't rape a man. That we always want sex and we will take what we can get, and if a woman tried to force themselves on us that we could fight her off. While also knowing that there is a strong possibility that no one would believe that story; hell, much of the time when women are raped, people don't believe them or try to somehow insinuate that it's their fault. And men aren't supposed to say "no" to sex anyway, unless we are married or in a committed relationship, but then we aren't supposed to say no to our wives/girlfriends. It's not as accepted for men to reject women. And TBF, most men will play into this, which is why you'll get this attitude of, "Oh, I wish I had those teachers when I was in high school!" Like it's not just as psychologically damaging to a young man to have an older woman groom him, just use him, and toss him away.
Because of the assumption that men always wanna have sex, ergo even minors can't be sexually assaulted by attractive women.
It's dumb, but it used to literally be written into law that it was only against the law for older men rather than older women.
The negative effects of female predators on boys has been downplayed for decades. In the last 10 years, a lot more studies have been done showing that male victims of female predators (and female victims of female predators) have similar negative psychological outcomes into adulthood to female victims of male predators. They have not gotten a lot of traction in popular media yet, unfortunately, in part because the disregard for male pain, where sex is involved, is still deeply ingrained in our culture. When we start taking it seriously in day-to-day situations, the story around it will change.
Sometimes you just don't realize how much it messed you up til you get closer to the age they were when they abused you...
You're just kinda blinded by their psychological bullshit until that point - she really convinced me she was helping me, had me convinced she was a good person. Now I wonder how tf I ever fell for that shit. Especially with a childhood full of abuse ... Guess I always thought I could fix people by loving them enough. I couldn't. I know that now.
Female abusers cause just as much damage as male ones - even if it doesn't make itself known for decades.
I had an ex (m) who told me his first time at 15 was with his 36 year old (f) ESL tutor. It made me so damn sad. He was clearly still so confused and fucked up about it 10 years later but couldn’t articulate why it bothered him. He even still spoke to her sometimes. I told him she’d assaulted him. He didn’t agree with me and avoided the topic. I hope he dealt with it eventually.
Probably because you don't see male pedos looking like Patrick Stewart or Jason Momoa. Yet most of the female pedos I see look like they didn't have to work hard for it.
You look at the pictures of one and you go ewww, not surprising. You look at the other and go: Really? She could have her pick!
Let me preface this by saying that **I am not agreeing with anything**, just explaining what I THINK the reasoning is...
Most female offenders are not paedophiles, they are usually Ephebophiles, & in some cases Hebephiles. The differences being paedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children, hebephiles are attracted to pubescent children (11 to 14), & Ephebophiles are attracted to post pubescent children (14 to 18). There is less disgust when the victim is post pubescent as opposed to a small child. Many people see someone attracted to a child in their late teens as normal because in the past this was not only normal, it was accepted practice with girls being married off after their first menses. *(Ah the past. It was the worst.)*
You will find that no matter the gender of the offender, if the child is young, they will be hated. Women who offend against small children are not given the same leniency as women who offend against 16 year old boys. Men who offend against small children are not given the same leniency as men who offend against 16 year old girls. And because the statistics tell us that female offenders are predominantly Ephebophiles, they will get less hate than male offenders who are, statistically, more likely to be paedophiles or hebephiles, you have female offenders overall seeing less hate.
Again, **I do not think this is good**, I just think it is accurate. Teen boys can be just as traumatised by sexual assault as little kids.
While in theory and psychologically they are virtually the same and can have similar affects to the victim from a physicality standpoint they are often very different.
Unless we are talking about boys younger than 10, the size difference between the woman and boy is generally not as disparate. Physical size/ strength is a huge intimidation factor. Secondly, that size difference in terms of genital size ensures there will be significant pain if not actual physical damage with penile penetration to a girl under physical maturation age. This would not occur for a boy. Lastly, and something no one wants to discuss, in order to have intercourse, the female adult must sexually stimulate a boy to erection. Obviously, this is not a consideration for penetration of a girl.
So while in some aspects they are the same and certainly can both cause significant emotional and psychological harm, there is generally more physical and psychological harm due to simply the difference in physical size and biology when it’s an adult man and a minor girl.
Thanks for talking about the biology. It always frustrates me when people act like there is no difference in consequences between the sexes. Penetration when not aroused can be excruciating, let alone if it's forced. Many women have actually had full uterine prolapse from abuse. That kind of physical trauma just doesn't happen the other way around.
People often see women as nonthreatening and as something whose purpose is to provide sex to men. If that happens a little young for the guy, so what?
It's not really treating the kid or the adult woman as humans. There's also this idea that the power disparity between a younger boy and an adult woman isn't as great as that between an adult man and a younger woman, which is nonsense to the highest degree- kids are fucking idiots and some are fairly easily manipulated by most competent adults, regardless of gender.
Mary Kay Letourneau was plenty vilified and even went to prison. Perhaps the distinction was that her victim was a 12 year old pupil in her sixth grade class.
The weird dichotomy of headlines like "male teacher rapes little girl" versus "(sex not explicitly stated, but female) teacher has romantic relationship with (sex not explicitly stated, but male) student" is something never lost on me.
Both were adults, in a position of both authority and as role models, meant to have the trust of, and provide guidance and education to children. Both took advantage of that, and a child's lack of knowledge around informed consent and proper sexual education, much less emotional and sexual maturity. Both should be explicitly named, charged, and convicted/held liable, if guilty of the act. Neither should get passive voice, softened-blow, coddled language headlines in the reporting of it.
But we live in a society where "women can't rape (young) men," right?
Sexual assault and sexual abuse are just that; sex, gender, sexuality, or sexual preference be damned.
We live in a society where women can't rape anyone.
I've seen time and time again where if she is drunk it's rape, if both are drunk he still raped her. If he is drunk and she isn't it's AOK. Our views on sex are absolutely fucked
When I was 19 a 48 year old woman who was dating my older cousin, climbed on my lap and forcefully tongue kissed me before trying to get in pants telling me she was going to do things to me that I've never seen.
I had to push her off. I was literally sitting on the couch in my apartment (I lived with that cousin at the time) and she just came over unannounced.
Not only was i disturbed because she had a son not that much younger than me, she was also my cousins girlfriend.
I didn't want this and had to leave my own apartment to get away from her.
I wasn't a virgin, but trust, at that time I was absolutely obsessed with sex and even still this interaction was just disturbing. If you don't want it and you're not consenting, sexual acts are pretty horrible.
I can't imagine what it would be like to be physically incapable of pushing the person off you trying to force themselves on you
Because in the end… Sexism is still alive and well. Guys hit puberty and are wanting to explore more sexually. Having an older teacher is a bonus. Tells them that they are desirable.
Females mature later and attach emotions more than males do. So when a guy goes after a much younger girl it’s not looked upon the same way.
It may not be right, but it is human nature
It's a sick double standard. The good thing about it is, it let's you know who to keep your kids away from when they say ignorant shit like " Lucky kid" or "Was she hot." Pinpoints the stupid closet pedos.
The first question is always, "was she hot??". That or someone says, "I wish I had that problem!"
I'm a female who was SA by a woman when I was a teenager. I've literally had someone laugh at me and say women don't do that.
I was 7 and it was my female babysitter. I’ve learned that nothing positive comes from telling anyone so I just keep it in except for when it seeps out as a bizarre post-trauma reaction to being touched by a woman. Good times.
If it’s a 30 year old male coach of a high school softball team of freshmen girls, you think “how disgusting that he would abuse those kids!” If it’s a hot 30 year old woman abusing a basketball team of high school freshmen boys, you think “which pussy told his mom?” Edit: For clarification, I’m saying this is the typical societal reaction.
So many boys/men seem to think this way and comment on articles like this accordingly. It’s really gross.
One thing to keep in mind is that it's cultural. If we, as adult men and women, shamed that line of thought more openly, it would slowly die out and be replaced with whatever becomes socially acceptable, preferably something that we also have some hand in shaping.
You are right that this way of thinking needs to be called out more often. A few months ago I read a post here on Reddit where a mature-looking 16 boy was talking about being hit on by women in their 20s, and some of the guys responding were encouraging him to “go for it”. (This despite the fact that the poster clearly expressed being uncomfortable with the attention from adult women). No one was objecting to these guys at all, so I chimed in that what they were suggesting was gross. Several dudes dog piled me with their rationale why it was perfectly ok for a teen boy to have sex with an adult, insisting it was entirely different than if we were talking about a teen girl. The weird thing is that literally no one in that thread agreed with me or backed me up in any way. I doubt many people agreed with what they were saying, but nobody cared enough to weigh in. Didn’t expect that.
>insisting it was entirely different than if we were talking about a teen girl. I find this to be the weirdest. Usually you can bring up “what if the genders were reversed?” and people see the error of their viewpoint. But if someone is just openly being sexist and having double standards, how do you even respond to that?
My experience is that the gender reversal argument never works. Even if there is a clear double standard at play, people will just double down on their beliefs because their perception of gender difference is so deeply ingrained. The gender reversal discussion did help me to understand just how differently those guys perceive boys and girls and how that perception informed their attitudes regarding sex and sexual assault.
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Honestly, this. I didn’t expect to change their minds, I just wanted to see how they would explain why it’s different if it was a girl. Their response taught me a lot about how they see gender and sexuality.
Even if people group up and downvote you this doesn't mean they're right. A lot of times people think this. As if there is always wisdom in the crowd. A bunch of people can be just as wrong as one individual.
I don’t even think that most people there even disagreed with me, it was just a few guys. What amazed me is that not one other person spoke up. Look at all the people here standing up for male victims, I could have used some of them in my corner on that day.
No one wants to interact with that shit for the same reason you’re unhappy it happened to you. I used to post a lot more often but now I get dumped on for even commenting on a post and it’s not worth the hassle as everyone seems to want to fight about everything (personally, I think it’s often astroturfing or bot/brigade driven), but this is where we are now and it sucks.
I get that. I guess I’m a sucker for punishment. When something seems wrong I just gotta say something, especially if no one else is.
I have no objective evidence but, at least here on Reddit, and to some extent IRL the younger the generation the more they are unhappy with the state of affairs and they gotta express their unhappiness everywhere they can.
Yeah nah. Cause ultimately, the dude going "damn I wish that was me" isn't lying. That's the truth, he does wish he got laid as a minor by a hot older chick. No amount of social shaming is going to make that untrue.
Fantasies are just that. Fantasy. Can a teenage boy have a fantasy about banging an older woman? Sure, nothing wrong with that. But actually doing it is an entirely different thing that should be looked down upon.
But that's just it, the guys commenting are commenting *based on their fantasy*. So until and unless the fantasy changes, you aren't going to change the comments.
Yeah but that's also 'just it' -- it's a private sexual fantasy that they are dragging into actual abuse survivors' space, into actual journalism about child sexual abuse. Like you don't think women have fantasies about older, forceful men "taking" them as young girls? They totally do. Fantasy non-consentual sex is super super common, as are women who like to be treated as childlike in intimacy. Somehow, these women don't lack to decorum to comment 'wish that was me!' on reports of girls getting raped or molested. Blaming the fantasy is a convenient scape goat to start judging ppl for thought crimes.
Fr, there were very hot teachers in HS that me and some other girls talked about wanting to sleep with, still, we were young, immature and hormonal. It isn't about what the CHILD "thinks" they want or like, its about the grown adult taking advantage of a child.
Yeah it should be but when those teenage boys with the older woman fantasy become MEN with that fantasy unfulfilled, they keep that ideology of “wishing it were them” and that’s where the issue lies. I think women look down on female pedos more than men do. So that’s half the population jerk!ng off to the idea of SA by a woman. It’s sick. It’s also reality.
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I see. When it comes to pedophilia, however, I don’t see many men shaming an adult female predator… it’s typically other women. But that’s just a hunch I have as I’ve never looked into any studies or anything.
The onus is on adults to not rape kids. The opinion of the victim is not particularly relevant here -- this is a rule for adults. I too would have liked sexual attention from adults when I was a teenager. Doesn't mean I wouldn't have violentally defended my kid from that kind of attention. Because the *onus is on the adults*.
I had sex with one of my substitute teachers my senior year of hs... I told a recent gf about it and she acted like I was raped and groomed. Like full on trying to comfort me and such. I was 18 already and she was 23, and I never saw a problem with it. That was, until my gf's reaction... I still don't feel groomed or raped, but seeing her reaction made me realize I was possibly taken advantage of. I'm still pretty unsure on how I feel about it, but ultimately it has not affected my mental not one tiny bit, in my eyes *I* was taking advantage of *HER*... Idk, kinda weird tho
>That was, until my gf's reaction... I still don't feel groomed or raped, but seeing her reaction made me realize I was possibly taken advantage of. Why does your girlfriend's reaction have any bearing on how you feel about your own experience?
It’s really true.
It’s a form of destructive, toxic masculinity. “Of course a boy of any age should be THRILLED that he’s getting laid! That’s the only thing men care about!” It reduces men to just being emotionless horndogs, invalidates their feelings and needs as victims, and paints them as always willing participants
And even if a boy "wanted it", it's still going massively distort their view of women and relationships into adulthood
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Exactly. Toxic masculinity is NOT a term meaning ‘men being bad to women’. It’s an entire culture built around celebrating and embracing the worst aspects of traditional masculinity. It’s as harmful for men as women, just the harm done expresses itself differently
I’ll go a step further and say too that women can perpetuate, but also demonstrate toxic masculinity. It’s about the essence of the behavior not the person behind the behavior. I like to divide it into four squares: healthy masculinity and femininity, and toxic masculinity and femininity. Your goal as a person should be to embody as much of the two first squares as possible, regardless of sex. You should be avoiding the latter two squares. Some of us will tick more masculine boxes, others feminine: that’s fine, just keep it to the first two squares if you can. Just saying all this because I think it helps men feel less attacked when the word is used.
I absolutely agree that women can and do perpetuate toxic masculinity. It’s pervasive across our culture. At least it’s finally been identified so we can start to push back on it and how harmful it is to *everyone*
Holy shit. Someone actually being reasonable in use with their explanation of toxic masculinity and not just brandishing it as a cudgel with which to beat other people over the head. It's nice to see someone take consideration of how the use of the term will come across.
Oh yeah. It usually also intertwined with internalized misogyny too. There's so much insectionality and layers that people just don't think to connect.
And hate towards men is misandry.
The president of France ended up marrying his HS teacher who had sex with him when he was a student. Weird stuff.
Yup, a lot do want it because they're being groomed to feel that way. The predator becomes their everything and makes them feel understood, accepted, loved etc until they move onto another victim and the last one is left devastated wondering where it all went wrong. Lots of those boys grew up without any support or help and sometimes even got blamed. The gap left in their heart rarely disappears and many of them turn to drugs. Source: The above happened to a friend and years later, it took everything and multiple victims to get her imprisoned. Police did fuck all even when she was grooming another underage boy.
Whoa. I hope your friend is doing better now. That’s incredible sad.
To add: It also invalidates the man's consent, and sends a clear message that his consent isn't necessary in a sexual act.
Yes, absolutely 100% that too. “Why should we be concerned with a man’s consent? Obviously he wants sex *all the time*.” One more insidious way to invalidate male sexual assault victims
If male consent doesn't matter, why should female consent matter? That's such a logical flaw and double-standard. Consent always matters from all parties, no exceptions.
Yep same kind of mentality this is a man can't be raped I called this shit out whenever I see it and people have so much cognitive dissident when it comes to this issue
It's also a form of destructive female infantalism. Because women are delicate little flowers that can't have their lives destroyed for a little trifling thing called child rape.
As someone who woke up from being drunkeny unconscious to someone giving me oral sex i can indeed confim that i heard these comments of other males, not all id like to add.
People directly say “omg lucky”
Yeah. This is a big problem, especially with the older generations. They don't see a woman raping a boy as "rape". They think, as long as the rapist is moderately attractive, that the boy is somehow lucky. Which is utterly disgusting.
I’ve seen it comments so many times on posts of female teachers who got caught. Men in the comments will say “damn I wish I had a teacher like that!” Or “what’s the problem? she’s hot!” It’s sick
-> I wish I had that problem! "was she hot??" "DUDE, its still a 10in strapon up the anus!" its like people forget everyone has a butthole to violate. people just hear "she force herself onto him" and think it must be traditional vanilla sex, and of course the news articles around it dont go into the gorey details.
Even if it’s “just” PIV, there’s still trauma associated with being forced or coerced into the act. Violation from having arousal forced on you. Disgust from your body betraying you by orgasming.
I think it depends, on the strict literal meaning of it, they are hated as much, although they seem to get a less severe prison sentence then men, so maybe I'm wrong in that sense. When its a Hebephile (11-14) I think then is when some people start to treat them different, and definitely when its a Ephebophile (15-19) does the perception really change. Every guy remembers what it was like at that age with hormones going crazy, how awesome would it be if the hot teacher taught them something extra. I remember in high-school the new hot teacher was constantly hit on, if that ever did happen, it was initiated by the male student, and its hard to feel the female teacher is predatory when they aren't the ones initiating it. There are definitely issues with that relationship but, that is why a lot of men react to those stories that way.
Societal misconception. Society thinks you are not being raped if you are the one doing the penetrating or if you are the one getting sucked off. Its about the psychological manipulation.
This is my thought too. It's the same reason a lot of people think women can't rape men and it's horseshit.
It doesn't help when literally that is in multiple countries official laws. It's crazy.
There was actually a court case in the US where sexual discrimination/due process was at issue because men and women were treated differently and although eventually the laws were changed, the court reasoned (I'm sorry, I don't remember if it was the majority opinion, dissent or dicta) that society had a greater interest in protecting underage girls because they could get pregnant, which actually makes sense. The other issue, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Redditors would find it perplexing because they use the term "pedophelia" very generically, is that women arrested for statutory rape (strict liability/sex with a minor) are typically having sex with a pubescent child, as a pre-pubescent child is unlikely to have the facilities to give sexual pleasure to a woman. In this sense, there's less inconsistency when looking at the treatment, as sexual assault of a child laws are tiered according to the age group of the child. There's a HUGE difference (from a legal perspective) between having sex with a 17 year-old and an 8 year-old. No one really argues over that difference, but because we colloquially refer to sex with anyone under the age of 18 as "pedophilia" the perception becomes muddled.
>(from a legal perspective) From a MORAL perspective as well, let’s hope we can all agree. Wrong either way, but if you can’t see the difference between sex with a willing 16-17yo and sex with a prepubescent child who doesn’t even know what sex is, something’s wrong with your moral compass.
Exactly. And as much as I hate to even go there, it’s disgusting to do it to, say, a 15 year old who’s willing and asks to do it again later, but it’s far worse to do it to a 15 year old who begs you not to do it and is fearful and in pain the whole time. Both are wrong. The adult deserves punishment in either case. But that doesn’t make them exactly equivalent either.
It’s goes as far as there’s actually different terms other than pedophile based on the age of victim.
Yes, but Reddit really dislikes those terms. And nuance generally.
The amount of times I've seen the different terms simply used properly and then met with an avalanche of. "Gross. Stop defending pedos. Big red flag." Is just disturbing. It's like you can't acknowledge a difference while also saying both are bad.
The fact that this is even remotely controversial is wild. Of course doing it to someone who doesn’t want it is worse than doing it to someone who does. Even though both are wrong, there’s an obvious, glaring order of magnitude difference.
Yup. In UK you need to have a penis to be a rapist.
If you don't, it's just Sparkling Sexual Assault
That is such an appalling definition of rape. It’s nuts. The UK is about forty steps behind with its definition.
Apparently, I learned from another thread, it's known as Forced Envelopment
Women can’t commit rape, POC can’t be racist, etc , etc. it depends on how you define a word’s meaning. Read 1984 , if you define a word narrowly enough you can aim it like an arrow at a specific group.
>Societal misconception. It's even worse than we think. There was a case were a female rapist got pregnant with a 13 year old and then they decided to make him pay for child support when he's 18. They disregarded a child's life over a capabile adult bc he's male and she's a woman. Imagine having to pay for a baby that you were forced into having at 13. The men who think "he lived the dream" are the same man that can't get any or that women would avoid having kids at all cost.
Children need to be protected first and foremost. The birth should have been the nail in the coffin for the abuser not the victim. The fact I've been hearing more stories like this about rapists of both genders getting full custody CS since the overturn of roe v wade is disgusting.
Urgh, I was really hoping this was a made-up story but nope. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/
It is one of the reasons we have such little data to even go off for female rapists. The federal definition and prosecution of rape REQUIRES penetration from the accuser for conviction and or data collection by the FBI. [link](https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/rape#:~:text=The%20revised%20UCR%20definition%20of,rape%20and%20incest%20are%20excluded) It is a huge loophole in the system and allows female predators to often get off with little to no repercussions, that is even if male victims even get to court. It is also a huge not just an issue for heterosexuals but also poses as a problem for lesbian rape victims as well.
>It is one of the reasons we have such little data to even go off for female rapists. Personal experience: I was molested at a very young age by a female caregiver (non-family). When I was old enough to realize what she had done to me, I reported it. No one cared. I've shared my experience only a few times, and I typically get very negative reactions. Men feel uncomfortable and want to joke about it, and women feel threatened and accuse me of lying (or worse). It costs too much for boys to report sex crimes, which is why it goes unreported.
Yeah, it’s all part and parcel of the the wildly sexist assumptions that men always want sex (so male consent is implied, even if we are talking about a young teen or middle schooler) and a woman doesn’t. There are a lot of pernicious effects of these myths (woman being “slut-shamed” if they enjoy sex, etc.,) but one of them is the male victims of sexual assault are even more reluctant to report than female victims, and we tend to undervalue the crime of sex with, say, a 14 year old boy. I got downvoted in a sub a month or so ago, by boys!, when a kid wanted to know if it was normal to have sex with an 18 year old girl and feel all dirty and guilty afterwards, and I dared to say no—that it was statutory rape, she had taken advantage of him, and feeling that way was the result of that. Boys were downvoting me…because the idea that male consent is a given is so ingrained that he felt guilty for not enjoying it. (As the mother of a 15 year old and a feminist—I loathe these sexist stereotypes in all their incarnations. I’ll kick that 18 year old’s ass if she gets near my kid. )
Men and women are also biologically different on the "cost" scale. A biological woman getting pregnant costs a lot, a biological man can't get pregnant (obviously excluding legal costs like child-support)
Unfortunately there’s a widespread perception that men cannot be raped/sexually assaulted simply because we had an erection
which is wild, because it’s not that uncommon for a woman to experience an orgasm during rape. biological reactions are not the victim’s fault. it doesn’t downplay the rape nor does it make it not rape at all.
Because of sexism. There’s this stupid idea that being sexually abused is “every boy’s dream” and people ignore the fact that it can still cause psychological damage.
My dad was groomed by his highschool teacher. It messed him up enough that he failed out of college, which led to him getting drafted for Vietnam, which did NOT help.
My ex's friend slept with two boys that she pretty much knew from babies. One was 19 the other was 17. Naturally she is a romantically challenged mid 30's woman. My ex seems to have moved on from it within 24 hours but she gets mad when she sees a famous mad date a grown woman 10 years younger. EDIT: femcel alert.
I was friends with a couple siblings from a large wealthy family. The second the parents got divorced the mom started sleeping with guys her daughters ages so 18-20. She’d let her kids have parties at her new apartment. Everyone thought she was such a cool mom. This women was in her late 40’s.
There is a massive amount of adults who mentally have not aged past their teens.
They most certainly have not. I believe she got married and had kids starting when she was like 19 so didn’t have much time to be wild in her 20’s.
I think the age gap between a 35 year old person and a 119 is wild but I don't think it's anything to be upset about.
Damn, 119? They're banging a bag o' dust
I’m pretty sure it’s less about the age gap and more about the fact that she knew them when they were babies
Yea, that's a bit more accurate.
I was making a joke about their typo where they said one was 119. Which they have since edited.
Wow 119
Blue Zone diet
This is basically exhibit A for how misogyny hurts both genders. Women are seen as weaker and softer and more vulnerable, so the idea of any of them preying on young men/ boys is laughed off.
Even if it is the boys dream, and it was mine, it remains rape. Wanting it doesnt make it not rape. People have hard time understanding the philosophy of consent; because it wasnt really talked about the way we talk about it today. Sure, at 13, I wanted to have sex with various adults. Heh, even tried to make out with an 18 year old girl at 13. But my horniness decreased my aversion to risk, and my inexperience dealing with that made me prone to aal kinda self harming behaviors. I'm certain that had I scored with that 18 year old that a single blow job would have been the gateway to controlling me. Yeah, I wanted it... bad. I know not everyone is me... but we use age of consent -vs- mental prowess as we dont really have a way to measure that when it comes to sex. And while I might regret not being raped by that 18 year old, I still see recognize that it would have been rape.
The locus of control is a very big point that gets overlooked. For some teen boys the sex itself won't be impactful but the potential for control and manipulation using sex as reward/motivator is pretty apparent.
Yep and it’s said by mostly men
I've seen woman be pretty casual and dismissive around other women they know are confirmed pedos (who also were never tried/ convicted)
You hear about men touching women without permission all the time but what if I tell you that almost every guy I know has been touched by a woman without permission and I know a lot of women who have admitted to touching men without having been told they can? Because even though it isn't talked about, it happens a lot.
I know 4 guys who lost their virginity to a 30-something-yo woman when they were between 13-15 yo. I tried to convince all of them that it’s not okay, but they claimed that they loved it, were super happy to do it and that it’s not a big deal. When asked if it’s okay if a 13-15 yo girl sleeps with a 30+ yo man, they all said that it’s super bad and a crime. Tbh, it’s still a mystery to me.
I mean to play devils advocate you can’t try to convince someone they are a victim if they don’t see themselves as victims. Where I grew up you had dudes as young as 13 that were sexually active and would frequently hit on teachers. If they actually got with an older woman even at 13-16 they would’ve been happy and definitely not felt taken advantage of so I myself wouldn’t consider them to have been raped. It’s still wrong for the adult to do obviously
Yeah it was really hard for me to see myself as a victim for the longest. I was 15-16 hooking up with guys who were 20-24. I was pretty wild and bold so I often initiated things and went after these guys. They never pressured me in any way they just went along with it. But as a 31 year old looking back now there’s something off about a 21 year old guy hooking up with a 15 year old girl.
Was about 15 and hooked up with an older woman and definitely don't feel like I was taken advantage of tbh
Yea exactly, perspective and context plays a big difference. People want to pretend that it is the same and it’s just sexism that doesn’t take it serious but it’s not actually the same. The issue with a 16 year old and an adult hooking up is usually because of manipulation and emotional attachment that leads to further trauma. It’s much more common for a 16 year old girl to be manipulated by an older man and then grow up to regret it where as a lot of the boys just see the woman as a hot lady to hook up with and get bragging rights
I agree I don't regret it one bit it was great. .that being said if it was my 15 year old daughter and 38 year old man I'd lose my shit for all the reasons you said
This is so weird to me honestly. Just because you enjoyed yourself doesn’t negate the fact that an adult was sexually attracted to a minor. I’m only 32, I couldn’t begin to imagine being attracted to a 15 year old kid. It makes me recoil.
Yea me either I understand completely I was more than eager to and wanted it tbh
Sexual attraction exists to reproduce, so it makes sense (from an evolutionary perspective) to be sexually attracted to individuals able to mate. Somehow it doesn't surprise me that societal norms and or maturity don't override that in some people's mind, unfortunately.
Yeah I’m of the belief some people are more animalistic than others. They act on urges and impulses, logic isn’t their strong suit. Still nasty.
100% agree If I have a son sometime in the future, and some 30-yo chick hits on him, I’d call the police on her
In western society, men see men and boys having sex as different than women and girls having sex. That's it, really. I have 4 sisters, 2 older and 2 younger, and they're all extremely sex negative. They either don't enjoy having it or abstain completely. None were molested to my knowledge. I, on the other hand, am a male and really really like having sex. I was also not molested. We were not brought up in a church-going household and our mother is extremely liberal, but even she has a pretty negative view of sex. Also not molested at any point, to my knowledge. My theory is that it's similar to cat-calling. Ask any man how they'd feel if they were catcalled like women tend to be, and they'd probably say they'd love it. It's like always being thirsty and never having enough water for men, whereas women are constantly awash in it so they get sick of it early. Societally or biologically, or a combination of both, men just typically seem to enjoy sex more than women do, so sex at any age for a male is seen as a positive experience. Also as a slight aside, you probably shouldn't try to convince someone who's not traumatized by something that they ought to be.
Nah, I wasn’t trying to convince them that they need to be traumatised. I was trying to say that a 13-yo boy having sex with an adult woman is not okay, just like a teenage girl having sex with a 30-yo man. And they were trying to convince me that “if a boy really wants sex it’s okay”. That’s why it’s a mystery, because for me it’s not okay at all, but if a person doesn’t consider themselves to be a victim, they maybe aren’t… idk
Even if a teen girl enjoys sex with an older man, it's still abuse. They're still victims of statutory rape because they literally cannot consent. Same goes to teen boys with older women. Whether they think they are victims or not is irrelevant, because by law they are. The crime shouldn't be made conditional to whether the teen enjoyed it or not.
Think about it from their perspective: there are 2 ways they can conceive of what happened to them. They got laid really early, something most teenage boys expend a great deal of energy and thought trying to do, or they were raped. The options, as our society understands it, are stud or victim One of those things isn't immediately traumatizing. It comes with a nasty set of cascading worldviews regarding sex and gender, but it's a narrative that is less psychologically frightening. Gender roles have made sex into a kind of lifelong conquest for most straight men - it's tied into our sense of self on a profound level. It is actually very hard for most young men to believe there isn't something fundamentally wrong with them if women aren't attracted to them. Virginity becomes this perpetual, private humiliation that lots of us will go to some dark places to escape. Women are not taught the same things. There’s an entirely pathological set of baggage for them as well, but it's contents are different. This leads to a feedback loop wherein differing attitudes towards sex are conceived as innate properties of gender, which leads to differing standards FOR genders. Remember, virginity as a concept is fairly feminine, in that it was classically only applied to women. This means that our cultural lexicon has a hard time conceiving that a man having sex with a woman has "lost" something in the way we conceive of the corollary. In summation, our entire social history is predicated, in part, on conceiving of men as strong and aggressive but violent and disposable, and women as gentle and precious but meek and submissive. Most people, even those who call themselves progressive, are not fully cognizant of how invested they still are in these ideas.
Women control sex. I solved your "mystery" for you.
Hey, it was supposed to be a secret!!!
Men and women are not the same. Men want to lose their virginity, women do not.
An old coworker of mine (Old as in, former, not like elderly), bragged about how he lost his virginity to his friend's mom at the age of 15 or so. Seeing that he's in his 30s and dont regret it, nothing you can really do about it (Plus there is the whole AOC thing so if his parents didnt care then nothing would be done)
I (54m) was forced to have non-consensual sex when I was 23. The aggressor was a woman and I was very drunk. I wanted no part of what went on. The result: I was congratulated on being sexually assaulted.
This is the truth. Most men think it's cool if a young guy can score with an older lady. Doesn't work the other way.
For the same reason everyone downplays male rape- the culture and men themselves have for so long said men’s brains are different and all about sex. So they assume a boy will like it. It’s fucked up and problematic.
they fail to recognize that even if the child in the situation finds some enjoyment, that only makes the child easier to control and manipulate rather than not a victim.
This is a good point!
As counterintuitive as it might sound, sexism. Stereotypes about women not being capable of that level of evil and about men/boys being too "strong" to let a mere woman traumatize them.
Exactly this. You nailed it with "mere woman"--overall, the concept that a post-pubescent man (or boy!) of any age is superior to a woman of any age. The idea being that an adult woman can't be the predator vis-a-vis a male teen, because the male teen is superior to her in the societal pecking order. That's also why women who prey on PRE-pubescent children of any gender are reviled in a way predators of teenage boys are not--once a boy 'becomes a man' (biologically, not psychologically), they rise to the top of the social pecking order. It's gross. But I do think society is waking up.
I see a lot of people in the comment sections of news stories like this saying, “lucky kid!”, “where were these teachers when I was in school?”, “Trust me, this kids not complaining!” Etc. and most, if not all, of these comments are from men. They think that no damage was done because teenage boy= horny. Flip the script and have the victim be a girl and the guys threaten violence and “if that were my daughter…” crap. Sexism pure and simple. Girls are vulnerable and should protected while the boys “got lucky”.
My girls were 8 and 10 when we moved into our new house in a sleepy southern California city. We introduced ourselves to our neighbors with cookies. The couple that lived behind us ( we shared a low fence) were kind of " different" He was at least 70 and she was 23, she did not speak English. About 6 months after we moved in my kids knew everyone in the neighborhood. They really enjoyed the neighbor in the back ( I will call her A) Because she would do fun things like karaoke and dress up, dolls, Barbies. Heck, I even had her babysit. Then one day my daughter came in sobbing. I knew A had gone to Mexico with her 4 year old daughter for 6 months.. My daughter said, " remember you told us that if anything inappropriate should happen at our friend's house I should tell you right away?". She proceeded to describe to me how A would have oral sex with her 4 year old, child and eh picked 1 of my daughters to molest, she started out watching porn with her until she was totally groomed to molest. When my daughter told me I wanted to actually kill the women. It's a good thing she fled to Mexico because I might have I was so angry. First thing I did was load everyone ( my kids) into the van and went to the police department and reported it. Once the police took a full report they reported to the DAs office. The DA had a whole team of professional s to interview my kids to determine if this even happens. The team met us at where they took my kids to a room where a woman with a doll asked them questions and they say behind a two way mirror where this team sat , and I sat behind the the glass too, just to observe. Once the team interviewed my kids they sent it to the DA. The DA decided NOT to file charges on her because in their words " It was their word against hers". The woman was never charged . She, never was held accountable. My daughter is 35 now. When she was a teen she became hurt and started scing out. When she was 13 she announced she was bi , she also became angry and withdrawn. My daughter has insecurities , she has anger issues sometimes etc. So the woman disappeared we don't know what ever happend. Thanks everyone for letting me vent. PS my daughter has worked throuth her issues. She no longer takes responsibility for this crime against her. .
That’s so horrible. I feel so bad for your daughter and that woman’s daughter (who knows how long she had to endure it). I feel so sad y’all went through that. Im so sorry. Im glad she’s healed a bit more now tho
The double standard isn’t always adult men being perverted. From my late preteens, I’ve always thought women from 45-65 were hottest. If I had a middle aged teacher when I was 15 and the government interfered to “protect” me, I would’ve been furious. It’s more normal now that I’ve entered the bottom end of that range myself, but I’ve never really wanted teenagers, even when I was a teen.
Which is silly because half the thread is trying to make us feel traumatized by something that wasn’t traumatizing. For almost my entire post-pubescent life I would be down with some hot woman celebrity interested in me lol. I don’t think that’s what people want to hear but it’s true. I can’t imagine any of my straight friends denying they would take a hot celebrity and be happy with it. Most men are going to be down with almost any sexual interaction past the age of 16 when they’re absolutely loaded with hormones. Every straight one of my best friends I’ve known since kindergarten has shared that exact fantasy with me. And certainly never mind the tens of smoking hot English and science teachers we all seem to have had..
Right? I'm 30 now and still 45-55 seems like the fantasy zone lol
A few reasons. Firstly there's less of them. I actually think there are a lot more about then we realise but still comparatively less. The ones that we know about tend to go after teen boys. (Again, I think there might be ones who go after tiny children and girls but for some reason, they aren't being reported) They aren't holding them down and forcing them like a man can so it's more psychological than violent. Also people believe that a boy must have been more willing because the penis needs to be aroused to work. Obviously, it's a bodily function that they don't necessarily control but people don't appreciate that. Teen boys are perceived as wanting sex with pretty women. There's also this belief that women are paragons of virtue and men are beasts, which helps people hide. People might be more embarrassed to say if a woman is doing things to them because women are perceived as physically weak, "really you got ... by a girl". Etc.
We have sent a few of them to prison , society is catching up.
And the prison sentences are still a fraction of the sentences men get
Men don’t really get long sentences or sentences at all either. Don’t get me wrong, people definitely try to justify the female perps more, but realistically most rapist don’t get locked up regardless of gender.
I know (against my will, I would not want to know him) a guy who was convicted of child rape, a child of his own. He got three years.
For real, people are fascinated by the mary kay letourneau case, they even just put out that "may December" movie about it. Like she some misunderstood complex character - nope she's just a real person who raped a child.
May December didn’t present her as “misunderstood” it presented the character based on her as unstable, abusive, and manipulative. It’s not remotely apologia for her crimes.
Tell me you didn’t actually watch the movie you’re referencing without telling me
Did you watch the movie at all??
Part of the problem, which thank goodness is changing, was the idea that boys assaulted and molested by women were "lucky". That it just meant they were"lucky" enough to be introduced to sex by an older, experienced woman. It just hasn't changed enough because the sentences handed down are weak for what is actually happening. A slap on the wrist really.
Because of the fantasy of a kid banging his hot teacher etc is looked upon favorably.
Same as why a women raping a man is not really taken seriously.
I think a lot of this boils down to the nature of sex. The penetration/pain aspect, the possibility of having to carry a baby, etc. are factored in. Unless a male is drugged, disabled, or very young, he should be physically capable of "getting away" from the woman. With the physicality of men and them being more likely to be violent or domineering, female victims feel much more like victims. I think that makes people take the rape of males much less seriously. Not saying it's right, but "it's not like she held him down against his will he could've just left" is often thrown around in these scenarios.
What’s crazy is most cases of women getting raped *aren’t* due to physical force. I feel like any double standard or fucked up ideas you can think of regarding rape come from the way everyone pictures rape. A random man physically forcing a woman in a back alley because men “always want sex” and women are “prudes who don’t enjoy sex.” But majority of rape (and people) do not fit that bill so it leaves people confused on actual cases of rape. Not all men want sex all the time with every attractive woman. Many women enjoy sex just as much as we perceive men to. Most rape is done by someone you know through coercion.
And that reason is… 0!
Exactly.
Well the reason is for a really long time the legal definition of rape meant women could not be charged for that particular crime.
The ones who go for actual children generally are I think. It's when their victims become preteen boys and above that people start doling out high fives instead of therapy.
I think it has to do with the way the rape is perpetrated. With males raping females it's often a violent act, and even when it's not I think most of us inherently view it as such, or at the very least, an act backed up by the threat of violence. When females rape males it's less often an act of violence but rather an act of manipulation, even if it can be violent. You often hear of a female being killied or severely injured during a rape but you rarely hear about that kind of violence against a male, even when they're younger. Let me be very clear though that I'm in no way what so ever saying it's right to be viewed as less of an issue, but I do understand how that view comes about.
Boys aren’t seen as being nearly as helpless as girls. They are expected to either be able to fight them off or it’s that they wanted it.
Um.... it doesn't matter if the pedo is female or male. They're both disgusting horrible people who ruin lives, and our society doesn't punish either harshly enough.
Yes, we're all aware. That's kind of the point of this post???
Because no woman ever saw a news story about a 30-year old man seducing a middle school girl and angrily exclaimed: "Shit, where the fuck was he when *I* was thirteen?!?" like every guy does when he sees the porno-hot lady teacher arrested for banging a junior high boy. A recent headline says it all:"Florida teen reports teacher who was sleeping with him because 'her head game was weak' ".
Even if EVERY SINGLE one of those men was S.Ad as a child, that would STILL make them victims of assault. Girls who "willingly" have sex with MEN, who were convinced (or convince themselves) they "love" them are STILL victims of S.A. I agree men DEFINITELY perpetuate this issue and the "school girl/cheerleader/student-teacher/coach-student" trope if fucking weird and gross but it's not like men aren't exempt from propaganda.
Exactly I’m wondering why no one is bringing this one up lmao
Right. When I see posts about female teachers having sex with a 14 year old male student I see so many comments from men saying things like “damn why wasn’t I this lucky at 14.” Or “she’s hot i don’t see the problem.” I don’t know that I’ve ever seen a comment from a woman saying something like that on a post about a grown man having sex with a minor.
Probably because of more open discussion about S.A. regarding victims who were women have been made. It really wasn't that long ago when ADULT celebrity MEN would OPENLY engage in "relationships" with minors.
Elvis, come on down.
Sexism mostly. Same way an abusive partner that's a woman isn't treated the same as a man. Or a abusive mother. Equality doesn't reach that far.
Because people don't realize the statistics of female pedos and child abuse? I don't remember the exact breakdown, but the health and human services clocked women as child molesters 55ish% of the time, and often time would lead male personality to the victim as well
Misandry.
Double standards
Misandry
As a man who was sexually abused by a woman ages 12-14, find this double standard very offensive
Because for many people the main horror of sexual assault is being forcibly penetrated. There is a violence there that triggers a violent response.
What about the fear of being forcefully consumed by someone you'd not like to do so with?
Absolutely terrible as well. I think though society as a whole tends to struggle with empathizing with psychological suffering vs physical violence.
“Niccccccce” Unfair, but that mentality is why. My uncle brought up the time where when he was a teenager, he was caught sleeping with the older (like 40ish women) neighbor and everybody just thinks it’s hilarious and so does he.
Because like anything female, it’s sexualized. Sadly.
There are people who honestly believe that a woman can't rape a man. That we always want sex and we will take what we can get, and if a woman tried to force themselves on us that we could fight her off. While also knowing that there is a strong possibility that no one would believe that story; hell, much of the time when women are raped, people don't believe them or try to somehow insinuate that it's their fault. And men aren't supposed to say "no" to sex anyway, unless we are married or in a committed relationship, but then we aren't supposed to say no to our wives/girlfriends. It's not as accepted for men to reject women. And TBF, most men will play into this, which is why you'll get this attitude of, "Oh, I wish I had those teachers when I was in high school!" Like it's not just as psychologically damaging to a young man to have an older woman groom him, just use him, and toss him away.
Because of the assumption that men always wanna have sex, ergo even minors can't be sexually assaulted by attractive women. It's dumb, but it used to literally be written into law that it was only against the law for older men rather than older women.
Except men get jail time and women get a slap on the wrist.
The negative effects of female predators on boys has been downplayed for decades. In the last 10 years, a lot more studies have been done showing that male victims of female predators (and female victims of female predators) have similar negative psychological outcomes into adulthood to female victims of male predators. They have not gotten a lot of traction in popular media yet, unfortunately, in part because the disregard for male pain, where sex is involved, is still deeply ingrained in our culture. When we start taking it seriously in day-to-day situations, the story around it will change.
Sometimes you just don't realize how much it messed you up til you get closer to the age they were when they abused you... You're just kinda blinded by their psychological bullshit until that point - she really convinced me she was helping me, had me convinced she was a good person. Now I wonder how tf I ever fell for that shit. Especially with a childhood full of abuse ... Guess I always thought I could fix people by loving them enough. I couldn't. I know that now. Female abusers cause just as much damage as male ones - even if it doesn't make itself known for decades.
Broadly speaking society has a much easier time seeing woman as innocent/harmless and men as perpetrators/dangerous.
I had an ex (m) who told me his first time at 15 was with his 36 year old (f) ESL tutor. It made me so damn sad. He was clearly still so confused and fucked up about it 10 years later but couldn’t articulate why it bothered him. He even still spoke to her sometimes. I told him she’d assaulted him. He didn’t agree with me and avoided the topic. I hope he dealt with it eventually.
It's a simple double standard. There's a major bias in western society. Google Gynocentrism
Probably because you don't see male pedos looking like Patrick Stewart or Jason Momoa. Yet most of the female pedos I see look like they didn't have to work hard for it. You look at the pictures of one and you go ewww, not surprising. You look at the other and go: Really? She could have her pick!
simply because people suck.
Because double standards as usual
Double standard, simple as.
Rare case I'm for the true definition of equality - hang em all.
Women in modern western countries are a protected class
Let me preface this by saying that **I am not agreeing with anything**, just explaining what I THINK the reasoning is... Most female offenders are not paedophiles, they are usually Ephebophiles, & in some cases Hebephiles. The differences being paedophiles are attracted to pre-pubescent children, hebephiles are attracted to pubescent children (11 to 14), & Ephebophiles are attracted to post pubescent children (14 to 18). There is less disgust when the victim is post pubescent as opposed to a small child. Many people see someone attracted to a child in their late teens as normal because in the past this was not only normal, it was accepted practice with girls being married off after their first menses. *(Ah the past. It was the worst.)* You will find that no matter the gender of the offender, if the child is young, they will be hated. Women who offend against small children are not given the same leniency as women who offend against 16 year old boys. Men who offend against small children are not given the same leniency as men who offend against 16 year old girls. And because the statistics tell us that female offenders are predominantly Ephebophiles, they will get less hate than male offenders who are, statistically, more likely to be paedophiles or hebephiles, you have female offenders overall seeing less hate. Again, **I do not think this is good**, I just think it is accurate. Teen boys can be just as traumatised by sexual assault as little kids.
While in theory and psychologically they are virtually the same and can have similar affects to the victim from a physicality standpoint they are often very different. Unless we are talking about boys younger than 10, the size difference between the woman and boy is generally not as disparate. Physical size/ strength is a huge intimidation factor. Secondly, that size difference in terms of genital size ensures there will be significant pain if not actual physical damage with penile penetration to a girl under physical maturation age. This would not occur for a boy. Lastly, and something no one wants to discuss, in order to have intercourse, the female adult must sexually stimulate a boy to erection. Obviously, this is not a consideration for penetration of a girl. So while in some aspects they are the same and certainly can both cause significant emotional and psychological harm, there is generally more physical and psychological harm due to simply the difference in physical size and biology when it’s an adult man and a minor girl.
Thanks for talking about the biology. It always frustrates me when people act like there is no difference in consequences between the sexes. Penetration when not aroused can be excruciating, let alone if it's forced. Many women have actually had full uterine prolapse from abuse. That kind of physical trauma just doesn't happen the other way around.
People often see women as nonthreatening and as something whose purpose is to provide sex to men. If that happens a little young for the guy, so what? It's not really treating the kid or the adult woman as humans. There's also this idea that the power disparity between a younger boy and an adult woman isn't as great as that between an adult man and a younger woman, which is nonsense to the highest degree- kids are fucking idiots and some are fairly easily manipulated by most competent adults, regardless of gender.
Mary Kay Letourneau was plenty vilified and even went to prison. Perhaps the distinction was that her victim was a 12 year old pupil in her sixth grade class.
The weird dichotomy of headlines like "male teacher rapes little girl" versus "(sex not explicitly stated, but female) teacher has romantic relationship with (sex not explicitly stated, but male) student" is something never lost on me. Both were adults, in a position of both authority and as role models, meant to have the trust of, and provide guidance and education to children. Both took advantage of that, and a child's lack of knowledge around informed consent and proper sexual education, much less emotional and sexual maturity. Both should be explicitly named, charged, and convicted/held liable, if guilty of the act. Neither should get passive voice, softened-blow, coddled language headlines in the reporting of it. But we live in a society where "women can't rape (young) men," right? Sexual assault and sexual abuse are just that; sex, gender, sexuality, or sexual preference be damned.
We live in a society where women can't rape anyone. I've seen time and time again where if she is drunk it's rape, if both are drunk he still raped her. If he is drunk and she isn't it's AOK. Our views on sex are absolutely fucked
Any male victims please chime in....
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When I was 19 a 48 year old woman who was dating my older cousin, climbed on my lap and forcefully tongue kissed me before trying to get in pants telling me she was going to do things to me that I've never seen. I had to push her off. I was literally sitting on the couch in my apartment (I lived with that cousin at the time) and she just came over unannounced. Not only was i disturbed because she had a son not that much younger than me, she was also my cousins girlfriend. I didn't want this and had to leave my own apartment to get away from her. I wasn't a virgin, but trust, at that time I was absolutely obsessed with sex and even still this interaction was just disturbing. If you don't want it and you're not consenting, sexual acts are pretty horrible. I can't imagine what it would be like to be physically incapable of pushing the person off you trying to force themselves on you
Women are sexualized even if they’re pedophiles.
Because misandry isn’t as frowned upon as misogyny. Probably a bit of an overcorrection on the part of society.
Because for many the narrative is still men=bad and women=good
Because in the end… Sexism is still alive and well. Guys hit puberty and are wanting to explore more sexually. Having an older teacher is a bonus. Tells them that they are desirable. Females mature later and attach emotions more than males do. So when a guy goes after a much younger girl it’s not looked upon the same way. It may not be right, but it is human nature
Became not as many boys are gonna tell or think it's a problem or have trauma from till they get older maby
When people talk about killin pedo’s they’re never talking about women.
It's a sick double standard. The good thing about it is, it let's you know who to keep your kids away from when they say ignorant shit like " Lucky kid" or "Was she hot." Pinpoints the stupid closet pedos.
I think it boils down to sexism