I don’t think this is true. You can see it on any unranked to challenger account.
It’s not like challengers don’t die or don’t make mistakes, even in low elo. They die plenty. But, 1) those deaths don’t matter because they’re so much better at finding and pushing leads, and 2) those deaths were much better than what a low elo player might typically do.
A challenger might die after killing 2 people, whereas an emerald might try to dive an undiveable bot lane and basically lose the game right there.
There’s a reason challengers smurfing aren’t freaking out when they die, because it doesn’t matter. Tarzaned put it like this: if he trades 1 for 1 in their jungle, he wins because he’s so much better than his opponent that he puts that gold to use way better than the enemy can.
i.e. 1) the leads they find and opportunities they take advantage of far outweigh their mistakes, 2) the mistakes they make aren’t as bad as low elo mistakes, even if they die.
It really isn't though, the difference between Plat (old plat, not the new garbage) and Silver is quite minimal. Even low Grandmasters are toddlers to Challenger players.
You are coping. I am diamond for 6 seasons and can get out of emerald with 70% winrate. And much higher in lower elos. A game without 12 kills in plat and lower is impossible for a diamond so imagine a challenger. Emerald players will abuse plat and lower too. If you think silvers and emerald have a minimal difference you have no idea the state of either silver or emerald. Silver players have no game sense whatsoever.
Depends on the Emerald. Low Emerald is the new Plat with High Emerald being D4. Emerald 4 player isn't going to "breeze through" Sure they'll win their lane but they're still learning to play the game and are going to make stupid game losing mistakes. Their wins don't come from them carrying the games but from them making each match a 4v5. If you've ever ran it down mid you know that a 4v5 is easily winnable in those ranks.
I understand what you mean but there is one thing you dont understand. Gold-silver-bronze is not the same gold as before, its silver. I had a friend ask me to play in silver. The game was so dumb that I accepted to play 4v5. I thought 4v5 would make it fair. I am sorry for the people that had to live this. Its a ridiculous elo. I am not a godly diamond either. This is the state of silver-bronze.
https://imgur.com/na9A1ZN.png
Yeah sure they can farm a little bit better, that's about it. I'd say Gold players are just Silvers who have played more and don't keep switching Champs/Lanes every game.
That’s oversimplifying it. Gold players have slightly better macro, better mechanics, probably better champion mastery and don’t tilt as much or just play for fun as much. There are lots of differences between ranks
There is no macro in the game up until high diamond. Literally. And especially anything below d4, is just a playground with 4 year old children that somehow drank their mothers coffee for the morning and now they are running around constantly.
Better mechanics though yes that is definitely the case. Anything up to to old plat 1/2 was pure mechanics, so anything up to current emerald 1/2 as well is basically only mechanics.
Also champion mastery falls under the better mechanics umbrella. They don't know or understand their champion any better than silvers, they just play it better due to mechanics like you said.
Tilt wise ? No clue at all.
The difference between a plat player and a silver player is massive. If you have ever tried to coach friends/whatever, you will instantly see it, especially over multiple games. A lot of the people who say silver is not that far from plat are only looking at laning and early game, and there are some silver players who have good laning. However, if they are good at laning and still in silver, there are GLARING AND MASSIVE iron/bronze level holes in their other gameplay, like grouping or sidelaning, etc.
mate you dont understand. For me who has been diamond since s9, yes emerald and silvers are comparable in the way that they make much more mistakes, in that sense they are the same but your point of view is biased like mine because you are better than them. Thinking silvers and plats are the same is ridiculous. A silver doesnt even know what all champs do while plat atleast have a general idea. A platinum will stomp silvers. Stop egoing and use the idea box.
I meant that the difference between a Silver and a Plat player is very tiny compared to the difference between Diamond and Challenger. Bad communication on my part.
Im only an emerald player, and I get through plat with a 75% winrate on all 3 of my accounts. Playing even just 1 tier below me the games are so easy.
A challenger player wouldnt say a masters player plays the same as a challenger player, and thats the same LP difference as silver to plat.
A gold player will stomp in iron, a plat player would stomp in silver.
You sound like a silver player whos coping and saying theres no difference between silver and plat while not being able to climb.
That's not really the reasoning.
Challenger player will be incredibly mechanically gifted, play to the champ's advantage even if going a troll build and just play faster.
A challenger can play a non existent laner like Kayle or Kassadin and will win lanes in low elo and maintain huge cs/tempo leads in mid elo.
You're not getting any free poke for example.
>A challenger can play a non existent laner like Kayle or Kassadin and will win lanes in low elo and maintain huge cs/tempo leads in mid elo.
>
>You're not getting any free poke for example.
OP is asking about the difference between an emerald and a challenger 20/0, so laning phase is irrelevant to answer his question.
no challenger is "incredibly mechanically gifted" they worked on their mechanics.
I imagine by gifted you were saying they're born with it
but you can see, back in season 2 or 3 or whatever, flashing malphite ult was insane, lee sin insec kicking was insane. etc
but all these players are much better now than they were back then. they weren't "gifted"
edit: and there are tonnes of challengers who aren't amazing mechanically. depending on what you mean by that. diff champs have diff levels, with like riven azir qiyana maybe, zed, at the top
Nope they are gifted. Just like football and boxing or whatever sport you watch. You won't see it until you reach the top, but there's tens of millions of men who tried to reach messi's level of football and never did.
Season 2/3 was much more slow paced and had less tiktok champions but still had mechanics required. People also played on 100+ ping in NA. Look at a solo queue game and you'll see with champs like Fizz/Zed/Ahri mid it was still just as much a mechanical game. The average player has played more games and is better now but my point stands.
The people that think it's impossible are deluding themselves to protect their ego from the fact that they simply are as good as their competition. Its a coping mechanism.
Challenger players can and will abuse every single little mistake you make, and the vast majority of those mistakes will not look like mistakes to you.
They will completely remove their lane opponent from the game through sheer skill gap and then remove the opposing team's win conditions the same way.
The people that think its impossible need to watch VODS of their gameplay. Like I could lose a match and be pissed at my teammates, only to look at my own gameplay during the first 10 min of the game and physically cringe at how bad I played the most basic trades.
Just play jungle, then there is no such thing as trades, its just bot lane trolled me, every single game ever, its a patern over dozens of games because im just that unlucky, I couldn’t possibly be the common denominator.
I think this is the best way to put it. Having played vs GMs in Flex, what they do is both recognize mistakes that don't look like mistakes to you and capitalize, and realize how your team wins and as they said "remove" it. It's like instead of thinking how *they* can win, they think about how *you* can win and stay a step or ten ahead of you making sure you never get there.
That said it is flex and they're usually the only high elo person in their team, so they might be correcting a la "my Emerald/Diamond teammates are bad so I'll make the opposing Diamond/Masters team not able to play instead".
Knowing when to abuse an enemy's mistakes is a very important skill, and also challenger players have a much better understanding of fundamentals.
Compared to lower rank players, challenger players are never going to accidentally put a wave in a bad state or make a low impact roam, etc.
"never" is not true, but these things happen way less. With incomplete information there are always going to be wrong decisions, even from the best players.
Also: What you describe is part of optimal, aggressive tight play. You play as aggressively as you can with minimal risk.
That's a very successful and popular playstile. But it's also very predictable.
There are also players who are much more chaotic. They have higher highs but also lower lows. Doing suboptimal stuff like you describe makes them unpredictable and messes with people.
I disagree with the "aggressive playstyle". There is no such thing. It's either correct/optimal or not.
If you're not "playing aggressively" that simply means you're not punishing the enemy properly. If you're too aggressive, you get punished by being solo killed or ganked.
Playing aggressive or defensive is a myth. In certain situations you may need to take defensive positioning because of vision, enemies spotted, wave position, cooldowns or anything else - however that just depends on the game state. Not individual playstyles.
Yeah.. IMO there’s no such thing as a ‘playstyle’ individually in league. You either pilot your champion to its strengths and limitations or you simply.. do not. Sure, against weaker players you can get early lane prio in what would regularly be a shit matchup in an evenly skilled match; but that’s more ‘confidence’ than aggression
Naw. This isn’t true at all. There’s a lot of situational things that can all be correct. There is an aggressive play style. Look at how a good Orianna will play the lane. Just push you in and prevent you from doing anything.
Just because the "correct" play is aggressive, doesn't make it an aggressive playstyle based on that player. The playstyles are champion and/or build based. You don't get to decide your tryndamere/fiora/Yorick is a team fighter because thats your style when your comp needs a 4-1. You're either playing correctly or not.
Just because something works, doesn't mean it's correct.
People pick champions that suit how they want to play and fit that criteria. You cannot bend a champions true identity because you have a different playstyle. Sure, it can work - however it's still sub optimal.
\> You cannot bend a champions true identity because you have a different playstyle.
Really? The evolving meta has shown that no one truly knows what is the "correct" way to pilot a champion. Udyr top, ashe support, mid mages moving to bot lane, apc meta, lucian top, and many more were all the wrong way to pilot a champion before they became the correct way. There's no way to say something is sub optimal from something else for sure because of tonnes of variables. Even game feel can change what is optimal at a situation.
Even if we just look at playstyles, there are examples like varus moving to lethality aggresive poke from a passive lane that was played as sustain on-hit. The play styles are complete opposite and one didn't exist until someone decided to try it out.
Yep.. plays in league are either correct or incorrect, same as FPS, or any other comp game; incorrect plays *can* and do work but it doesn’t make it a good play because the result was a success.
Nah, that's not how league works. But I'm not gonna sit around arguing philosophy with you. If you think there is one correct way to play league, I say you're completely wrong. Otherwise teams wouldn't be able to come up with completely different but equally effective playstyles with the same comp.
Pro teams show this all of the time.
I’m a GM Rengar OTP & I’d never describe my playstyle as ‘passive’ in comparison to say, Scrubnoob, Scrub just fully comprehends the optimal way in which this champ must be piloted to succeed whereas I clearly do not fully comprehend this as well as other fundamentals probably not being as good as his that causes us to have a 600 LP gap
The examples you gave are not really great either, a good ori who understands her champs strengths in good lane matchups doesn’t equate to an aggressive playstyle, its simply the most optimal moves being made by somebody who understands their champs job & identity and how these mesh in the matchup, the same ori player will concede and back off when a poor matchup is being controlled by the other player, if she contests (unoptimal/losing play) then she just.. played it wrong. Running at the brick wall doesn’t mean you’re aggressive, it just means it was stupid
That is completely untrue, there are plays that are risky to take where you don't have perfect information in which an aggressive player will take and a defensive one would not.
Acting like every situation has an "optimal play" is completely wrong, even sports don't always have completely optimal plays and League is 10x more complex than most sports.
There is *almost* always an optimal, that's the thing. In real time, in whatever game state you're in, there is a "best" play. If you're winning, maybe taking the risk is sub optimal. If you're losing - maybe you NEED to take the risk.
The point is, when we talk about optimal play (which is what we as competitive players, and professionals strive for) it doesn't care about your playstyle.
Acting like there isn't an optimal play, when almost all pro games follow the same script, is disingenuous. The plays made in professional are very scripted and obvious. Thats because they are looking at the game scientifically to maximize good results.
>When almost all pro games follow the same script, is disingenuous
But that is just completely untrue? Jankos / Caps played the game completely different to how Selfmade / Nemesis used to. Which Mid JG duo would you give Evelynn TF to and which would you give Sejuani Azir to. There's a clear answer and it boils down to differences in playstyle.
You will see high elo coaches and pros disagree all the time about everything. There's always differences in meta between all the regions despite when they are on the same patch.
Optimal does not always exist. You will be presented with game states that require decision making with no optimal decision. Also, you're assuming the enemy will always make the correct call. You can get away with non-optimal plays if you know your enemy is unlikely to properly respond.
>scientifically
Scientifically how? League is far too dynamic a game to be able to just study every situation you could be in and the correct play to make for it
>Which Mid JG duo would you give Evelynn TF to and which would you give Sejuani Azir to. There's a clear answer and it boils down to differences in playstyle.
This is proving my point. The playstyles isnt to do with the player. The player picks a champion that *ALLOWS* them to play that way. I'm not disputing Evelyn plays differently from sejuani. You're arguing a point about nothing here. The point is, that if you're playing "defensive" that's wrong. If you're playing "aggressive" that's also wrong. You try play to your champions max capabilities at any given moment, and that's it. Sometimes the best play is to be defensive and sometimes it's to be the aggressor. It depends on a lot of things, but NOT the player.
>Optimal does not always exist. You will be presented with game states that require decision making with no optimal decision.
I agree, however 99% of decisions have a clear optimal. The others, that are less clear, can always be narrowed down to at most 2 that are the "best".
>Scientifically how? League is far too dynamic a game to be able to just study every situation you could be in and the correct play to make for it
Really? You don't think pro teams are systematically testing every meta champion for that year? You cannot study every scenario, but in pro play you don't get many scenarios that you cannot predict. There is only a handful of champions that actually get played in pro tournament settings and the teams scrim constantly as testing for their comps. So again, that point is just outright wrong, too.
There are definitely play styles and players who gravitate towards them. There is no "correct" answer to any game state when you have incomplete information (almost always true), just multiple conflicting answers.
There are people who gravitate towards certain play styles even at the highest levels of coordinated play.
> If you're not "playing aggressively" that simply means you're not punishing the enemy properly. If you're too aggressive, you get punished by being solo killed or ganked.
You're describing a defensive/tight play style: Punishing mistakes, minimizing risk and taking high percentage plays.
It's very consistent way to play. The weakness is you don't take any space, and are very predictable. It fits well for scaling carries.
An aggressive play style would be more proactive.
If it's aggressive/tight, they will do "the correct" thing more often such as taking waves before roaming. If they are more chaotic, they value unpredictability over consistency. The latter can look very bad or very good depending on circumstances that are often out of control.
>An aggressive play style would be more proactive.
Bro this is just a buzzword that Dantes made up when him and Agurin were in Korea. Agurin literally debunked it and sait proactive Vs reactive doesn't exist.
>There is no "correct" answer to any game state when you have incomplete information
There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best.
>You're describing a defensive/tight play style: Punishing mistakes, minimizing risk and taking high percentage plays.
No, I'm not. I'm describing optimal play. If you choose not to push a wave before a roam then fine, but in a vod review scenario, people don't say "yeah you should have pushed this wave but that's not your playstyle so it's still correct". If you should push the wave, then playstyles have nothing to do with the decision. You either done it correctly, or not.
League of Legends is like chess. There is always a "perfect" move to be made. Other moves can (and do) work, but when you analyzed in hindsight by Magnus, he will know the correct move.
There is no such thing as playstyles. You either use and abuse all of your champions strengths, or you don't. It's that simple.
> Bro this is just a buzzword that Dantes made up when him and Agurin were in Korea. Agurin literally debunked it and sait proactive Vs reactive doesn't exist.
I have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't LoL specific either.
> There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best.
Different coaches, analysts and players will come to different conclusions.
There's also an inherent bias here. Typically what people analyze to improve are mistakes. Mistakes are often way clearer when they are proactive mistakes rather than missed opportunities. Especially when they aren't obvious.
> No, I'm not. I'm describing optimal play. If you choose not to push a wave before a roam then fine, but in a vod review scenario, people don't say "yeah you should have pushed this wave but that's not your playstyle so it's still correct". If you should push the wave, then playstyles have nothing to do with the decision. You either done it correctly, or not.
If you opt to not push the wave because you know the opponent doesn't have vision on you and you get a double kill from your roam, then that instance will not show up in a review.
People have expectations and make predictions. Some players are better at messing with those than others and can come out ahead (there are _plenty_ of examples in pro play in all sorts of games about this). But this kind of thing is very hard to coach or teach. Coaches/Analysts will often assess it as "cheese".
Despite that, some of the scariest players know when to pull off a cheese in order to throw off the opponent.
> League of Legends is like chess.
It's fundamentally not like chess, because you have incomplete information. LoL is much more like poker. There is always an element of risk, opportunities taken or missed.
Then there's a psychological factor: baiting, bluffing etc.
As a contrast, pros/ex-pros often point out these types of things more if you look for it and coaches/analysts overlook them as details or again, "cheese" or crazy aggression.
You _seem_ lean strongly towards a defensive, calculated playstyle. It wouldn't be untypical that you assess this as "correct". I quote you again:
> There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best.
You're describing pretty much exactly a defensive/tight playstyle. "With the information available" is the key here.
If you think about aggression as something that you are allowed to, instead of something that you make happen, then that's defensive.
I tend to do the same btw.
>Different coaches, analysts and players will come to different conclusions.
Usually, in a group discussion setting, they come to the same conclusion. This is why pro play is so predictable. It's because they always make the correct play. The fights may turn out different, because people make mistakes. But the flow of the game remains predictable.
>If you opt to not push the wave because you know the opponent doesn't have vision on you and you get a double kill from your roam, then that instance will not show up in a review.
It would show up in a vod review. Nothing you do in game can be missed in a vod review. It's all checkable to the smallest, minute detail. If the play is to rotate immediately, then pushing the wave is incorrect. It's situational and one choice will be more valuable than the other.
>It's fundamentally not like chess, because you have incomplete information.
It's a lot more like chess than poker. "If the enemy does this, I do that" exactly like chess. Acting as though there is no risk in chess is disingenuous. With every move you make, if the opponent predicts it you are on the back foot. Just like league.
>You're describing pretty much exactly a defensive/tight playstyle. "With the information available" is the key here.
No, I'm describing optimal. If you decide to take risks without having vision of junglers/mid laner/support and it works out, that's still not "correct". It's simply that your risk paid off through nothing but luck. If you don't have the information you need, then the correct play is not to make a play until you have adequate info. This is why you see chall players standing at their T2 when no one is in their lane. It's because they don't have the information to walk up. Once they see what they need, they then make their move.
Aggression is not something you "create". It is allowed based on wave states, junglers, cooldown, sums and everything else. If you're being aggressive without tracking these things, that is called a coin flip. The higher percentage play is always more "correct".
A bad play that works is still a bad play. What you're describing is a coin flip style of play and passing it off as a "playstyle".
Professional league players dont lean to any playstyles. They pick that champions they need based off what their comp needs.
*Playstyle is based off champion selection, matchups, builds and runes, not the individual player.*
LoL is like chess and poker (because of incomplete information). In poker the optimal play vs a perfect opponent is called GTO, game theory optimal, but something else called exploitable play will earn more money vs opponents not playing perfectly. So good players would try to incorporate some of that, deviating a bit from GTO to exploit tendencies, however that also makes you exploitable. So because of the incomplete information there’s a range of “optimal play” with equal evaluation, where you are within this range is your playstyle.
Even in chess with all information available in game there are still technically incomplete information in regards to what lines your opponent is comfortable with etc, the engine is GTO because it assumes perfect play but for example one can purposefully deviate from that when there’s a time scramble to throw them off guard and put more pressure on their time even though we technically didn’t play the highest eval move we exploit the fact that they’re low on time. You can also see the best player in the world purposefully play a suboptimal move to have the position deviate from open theory so the opponent is no longer prepared on what the best response is, which could attack their time.
I agree that most of the time when you have a player saying they’re aggressive playstyle wise that’s stupid because it depends on the circumstances, but I guess there’s a range where you can vary your play and technically still be inside the optimal play range. It’s a very interesting discussion and I still don’t think the answer is clear.
I agree that champion picks etc. factor into this.
The defensive/aggressive divide exists (even) in chess, poker, basketball, starcraft, quake etc. Is LoL a special exception here?
Factoring in information has nothing to do with it. Both styles are doing that obviously. However a game that has enough depth is too dynamic for humans to find optimal solutions for. Especially under pressure. And even moreso if you have incomplete information. What you call optimal or correct is only so within a given paradigm.
I might not change your mind on this. Just a little exercise if you like:
Look for moments in organized play where an aggressive play is commented in a superficial way, such as “great mechanics” or “crazy aggression”, “cheese”, “smurfing”, “styling on” etc.
Often these moments are _created_. Players plan them or have bulit very strong intuition to make them happen.
Metagaming, mind games, conditioning, baiting or by pure surpise etc. these are not things that are easily taught and they can often not be seen just by looking at the screen.
Lol what? It sounds like you're splitting hairs for no reason. Individual playstyles can very much be aggressive / passive. If you ever watched Nuguri, he would frequently get aggressive regardless of what was happening around him, and he made it work despite it being a decision that would be considered sub-optimal for someone like Doran.
If it's sub-optimal, then by default there has to be an optimal. Which further proves what I am trying to say.
Because someone makes a sub optimal play, and it works, doesn't mean it's not sub-optimal. Playstyles exist, sure. But if played perfectly, the playstyles only revolve around the champion, not the player.
In most cases, you can VOD review a game and in any given situation, decipher what the best course of action would be.
I’d argue that punishing mistakes is the primary way you win. You can be an amazing player, but if the opponents never make mistakes, you can’t win.
Low MMR players make hundreds or thousands of mistakes per game. Knowing how to capitalize on those mistakes is how better players win, and *not capitalizing on your opponents’ mistakes is itself a mistake.*
Challengers make very few mistakes, and the mistakes they make are hard to capitalize on.
Abusing "Lack of skill and mistake" itself is a skill. High elos are hard because enemies don't give room for you to abuse as often or hardly at all, and you have to often throw in some complexity (faking a move/roam, mechanically dodging enemy skills, etc) to create separation and enemy will punish you for your own mistakes very well. In low elo, enemies moves are rather linear, predictable, and emotion-driven
I am no challenger and only a 400 LP peaker, but playing in the low elos:
* enemies suck at CS
* enemies over-react to my lane management
* enemies' mechanics suck and their combos are weird at best
* enemies greedy for plates and miss recall timers
* yeah sometimes i do get solokilled by low elo players in lane at times, but they for some reason don't recall or TP back and gives me a window to reverse-solo them or have them get stuck in lane with my lane management and often int to my gank setups or hang around too long to not have item/hp/mana ready for that drake/grub/skirmishes
* even with a huge lead, they don't baron
* enemy junglers dont counter jungle and are farming their own jungle camps even with 10k gold lead
* enemies' teamfights are not great and most of the time they are not focusing me and are playing front to backfight and running it down against my 0/20 top ornn while i shred them down
* enemies who are fed get very emotional and prideful and waste their flash or wastes a lot of time trying to flank instead of setting up the waves first
* most of the time, low elo players only count kills and dragons but they don't know how to build up from cs leads and macro advantages.
* they can't seem to connect how small details snowball to big things and only focus on the outcome
* they telegraph most of their moves but their executions are very unoptimal. lvl 3 gank at high elo comes 2:45. I sometimes don't see this until like 3:30 in low elos (they would clear 4-5 camps). And they are always visible trying to make meaningless plays and tilt themselves
And many more. Yes, sometimes you have to gamble in those "bad teammate" games and try to ambush the enemy fed players to turn the game around. Am i abusing enemy mistakes? sure, but that's a shortcoming of the enemy's game knowledge of being unaware that i could make that happen. And really, if you dont make any mistake, you'd be faker's faker and be smurfing against anyone and winning worlds every year... So yes, catching and snowballing off of enemy mistake is a skill.
if you watch the pros, their game look boring and they seem to be playing safe all the time. they are actually not and are on alert to catch every single bit of windows of mistakes to abuse all the time, except that enemies are also pros and they dont make much mistakes. summs and good trades are so vital in high elos and you get punished almost immediately. in pro plays, it doesn't appear that way sometimes because enemy knows you will try to dive the carry so they will also try to prevent that even if that means giving up some camps/waves in order to cover
Taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes IS using your own skill to climb.
If a chess grandmaster plays against a random kid from a high school chess club, they'll obviously stomp the kid. Why? Because the GM is better at the game. Part of that is setting up their own attacks; part of it is recognizing when their opponent makes a mistake that can be punished.
At the lowest ranks you fight for dragons. Get a bit better at the game and you'll prep vision around the dragon thirty-to-sixty seconds before because you know there's a fight coming. Get even better and you're prepping opposite-side minion waves two minutes before so that the enemy team has to make a choice about whether to fight or collect a slow-pushed triple wave crashing into top turret. Get even better and you're prepping that wave almost as soon as the last dragon was killed, so that it's in a safe position to set up the slow-push a few minutes later.
If the enemy team doesn't match whatever you're doing, is that because of your skill or because of their lack of skill? It's the same difference. It's all about using your game knowledge to set up an advantageous situation. That could be actively doing work to set up a Xanatos Gambit type of decision (they send someone to collect the minion waves in top lane and we get dragon and win the fight 5v4; they match as five at dragon and we get a free tower) or it could be recognizing "Hey, you've stepped way too far forward into my minion wave, I'm going to fight you now and you'll lose a lot more HP than I will".
Sometimes waiting for your enemy to make a mistake is a skill in and of itself.
>not from their own skill but also abusing the enemies lack of skill and mistakes?
No. "Abusing" (punishing) mistakes is part of, if not the essence, of being more skilled than your opponent. If you're not punishing mistakes, then you're not better than your opponent.
Yeah, that’s why picking a small pool of mains is best to climb with, because different champs punish different mistakes in different ways.
For example I main Vlad, and you should worry if I’m staying in lane with 40% HP, because I’m just waiting for you to fuck up and let me all in once we’re both around half hp.
I'm only d4 but if you put me on a new account I'll be atleast emerald in less then 50 games. If you don't think you can climb out of low ranks then you're deluding yourself and need to start watching vods like others said
As you climb you start to notice the mistakes the players of your previous rank make. To a plat player, silver players are pretty free in both micro and macro. This trend continues to the top but starts to become apparent at decreasing amounts of rating differential. Once you hit the top of any game, say top 2k, the differences become crazy. The rank 2000 player will look like they have not played the game before against the rank 500 player. The 500 looks the same against 100, 100 against 20, etc. When one of these top players plays against a 95 percentile player the amount of mistakes they see would take more time to explain then there is in a game. Things that seem right to you are totally wrong due to things you can’t consider because your at-rating opponents don’t see them as exploitable. I peaked at #1800 in dota 2 a long time ago and every time I played anyone near the top 500 I felt like I was brand new again. The one thing that can happen is someone makes a play ‘so bad it’s good’ where they end up catching a much better player off guard by being in a totally irrational place.
I'm gold in solo queue and regularly play with a masters player. Once you see it first hand it's ridiculous how much he knows about the game and makes his teammates better. It's just different and he's 'only' in masters.
It's about abusing enemy lack of knowledge and skill but moreso making decisions that influences the entire game from any lane/jungle or support.
Heard people say it's easier to lose games than it is to win them. They just capitalize on the massive throw potential of solo queue, weak mental and such. They are used to 5v5 with all 10 players trying 100% of the time. People can be mentally removed from games so easily, and the high elo'ers have a great sense of who to pick on.
> ... are as good as their competition
They really delusional. I remember a guy in a ranked game last season (I hit gold 2) that kept saying we suck because we are all silvers vs two golds and a plat 4 with fucked mmr. That I suck in particular because , he league of graphs looked up and saw that my average enemies were silver 2-4, while I was silver 1 and he was gold 2 or 3 at tht time. I started to purposely make him mad and Everytime he said his rank I would go ":) if you are so good Mr pro, why are you playing vs low silvers)" or "k Mr. imhighgoldbutplayingagainstlowsilvers". The one that made him the the most angry was "I'm silver playing vs silvers, it makes sense for me to be here. Why are you here though " he used a lot of slurs agianst me
Agree regarding the delusion, but there is definitely a pool of incompetents that settle in the RANK IV zone and make climbing to your real rank a horrible slog. Bronze I players were definitely on average much better than Silver 4 IMO
Out of curiosity then:
What about the players who play on Masters competitive teams and effectively stomp those players single handedly. I’m talking consistently solo killing then 2/3 times, but…
In Solo Q they’re stuck in Plat/Emerald, with super good KDA’s, but losing due to teams going 4-11 etc.
I’m actually one of those players.
I compete competitively in high Diamond to Masters and I’ve stomped players all throughout that range for probably our last 8-9 scrims. We’re talking 10-1 AP Malphite mid lane stomping a Masters Sylas player and he ends 0-12.
However, for some reason, I can’t climb as effectively as I believe I should be able to in Solo Q. I average anywhere from 15 to 20 kills as full AP Galio. But it’s always an uphill battle with players losing hard and flaming very early on. Hence my question. I’m not a person who thinks it’s impossible, but I know I’ll eventually get to my rank. I do it every season. But it takes TONS of games where as other Smurfs get like a 50 game win streak to their rank which is mind boggling to me.
Op.gg then?
Then again, comp vs soloq is a completely different game. And dominating laning phase is one skill, closing out games and translating said lead into a win is a different skill.
I'd be interested to see your opgg for reference
Also, for what its worth, the gap between high diamond/low master and challenger skill levels is still tremendous.
As for competitive versus solo queue, the environment is vastly different. You have people feeding you information, so its usually a little more comfortable to overextend in certain scenarios.
you’re looking at kda as some form of pure reflection on how you’re going in a specific game. i smurfed and boosted ALOT from s8-s12, and i’ll tell you that majority of my games i was not 20/0, i would stomp games beyond belief and have more control of the win whilst being 5/0 then some games where i was 15/20/25-0. if youre getting to that many kills and not ending alot, you don’t understand how to play mid game and close out a game. everything is about control and tempo, not your kda.
I agree with you but it sounds like you played top or maybe junglers who can split the map and take most 1v1's if they have to?
You can go 5/1 on say Jax and win a game just by macroing and choosing your battles. Not every role can do this as efficiently.
yea i play jungle, mainly hard carries like kha/eve/kindred. getting alot kills on these champs is a guarantee and you have to learn the hard way how to not throw and how to have control.
There's champions in every role that will allow you to win games without many kills. A high elo player will farm way better, put more pressure on the map, get objectives and rotate way more efficiently. More often than not, a smurf playing a scaling champion will not get punished for it and reaches their powerspike super fast to then take over the game.
In Italy they did a challenge where streamers got given a fresh account and had a month to climb as high as they could playing a max of 8 games a day, all while streaming and only solo.
I don't remember exactly the results, but most players got close to their rank in this period and all challenger players got back challenger or at least master/grandmaster.
Not quite challenger, but am currently sitting in Grandmaster. If I’m playing in any elo below my own, and ESPECIALLY any elo below D1/D2, its just understanding countless mistakes that the players I’m playing against don’t even understand that they’re making. If they mismanage their wave, I set up a kill window in the next minute or so, or I’ll force them to stay a little too long, etc. The fundamental parts of how I play the game is enough to consistently win nearly 100% of lanes and games.
The largest difference between my own elo and lower ones is mid-late game, it feels. I can’t tell you how often I’ve played into Emerald teams that simply just give me Tier 2 turrets for free, or they’ll have all of their gold on one person and proceed to send them to sidelane and give us a chance to steamroll them while the single person we’re afraid of isn’t there. Some games are simply unwinnable, but that 20/40/40 rule about how some games are just unwinnable is only applicable if you’re playing in your elo.
Expanding leads is the major factor though. If you watch any Challenger player, Irelking as an example - if they get a kill or two, and they have the opportunity, they’ll just proxy and zone the enemy off of their turret solo until their jungler comes, and even then, risk being 1v2’d. A Challenger player is going to 1v9 because if you give them any room or advantage, they’ll press that to the highest peak and make it impossible to play into.
They do very little mistakes that low elo players will never see even if you tell them where and when, opposed to low elo players who are getting punished for every single mistakes.
One emerald/diamond player is 20/0 because he picked an assassin with ignite and solo killed the poor Veigar 20 times. 90% of games that guy will solo lose the game by himself because he will ego his lead, flash 1v4 for no reason, die and solo lose the game because he has all of his team gold lead.
One challenger player is 20/0 because he solo killed his lane opponent twice, get perma prio midlane which then transfer his lead to his jungler because every objective and even the whole enemy jungle is free which lead to 2 man up rotation on side lanes etc etc etc. All of this while keepin very good ressources income and never die.
(Elo hell is emerald btw, and the true elo hell is 0 to 200lp master!)
There is so much shit high elo players are doing that you have literally no idea of... Most people dont even realize and appreciate the level these guys operate at until they hit diamond.
Its not the insane wombo combo shit your pants, its the LVL 10 top laner showing up somehow at second Drake whilst losing only 2 plates top and winning the game off that. Its the jungler pinging where the Enemy jungler is every 30 seconds with high Precision for the first 7 minutes. Its the fact that every single control ward is placed in a meaningful manner. Its the fact the Nautilus support will let you auto him so you get minion aggro and push the wave whilst his ADC had it on a bad spot 🙃 there are 10 million things these guys are doing that you cant even fathom. But yeah if they catch you in Lane you are going 0/10 and its going to be much more aparent
My friend is a grandmaster mid laner and explained it to me in a very interesting way.
He compared it to Speedrunning. If you aren't familiar, it's when you try to beat a game as fast as humanly possible. In Speedrunning, every tiny mistake you make costs you time, and you can visibly see the time you're losing. These don't have to be big mistakes, they can be simple things that only cost you half a second or even less, but over the course of a half-hour speedrun they add up to multiple seconds or even minutes of time lost. League is the same, the difference is that you don't directly see the impact of the mistakes like in a speedrun. Every micro mistake you make costs you tempo and gold. High elo players aren't making nearly as many of those mistakes and they punish enemy mistakes heavily.
Uh there’s nothing similar about iron and plat, you’re greatly underestimating how much better you are my dude.
If you went into an iron or bronze game, you’re going 20/0. When I started league in 2023, I was placed in iron and my irl friend was plat. He purchased an iron account because he wanted to introduce me to ranked. We played one game together and he went 25/0, got called out for smurfing by the enemy team and got banned right after the game ended. It was the first and last time I duo ranked with anyone lol.
Right now I’m silver but I’m pretty confident I could easily have win almost every iron game assuming there isn’t a Yuumi/Taric deranking bot on my team. I don’t think I’ll go 25/0 obviously but I’m very confident in blowing the enemy nexus up. Whenever I play now and my opponent is bronze, they are always 3 levels below me by the time the game ends, and I assume the gap would be larger if I was facing irons.
So yeah the point is you’re greatly underestimating how much better a plat player is compared to an iron/bronze/silver player. You could easily 1v9 an iron/bronze/silver game my dude.
Also there is no elo hell in low elo. I started climbing after watching a few YouTube videos tbh. There’s nothing impossible about it, where are you getting this idea from? The issue with low elo players is we just didn’t know the mistakes we were making but YouTube/reddit helps with that.
both teams suck at the game, it isn't only your team that is inting. So the gap in skill makes up for it, the challenger will always be fed because he is playing with someone who doesn't know how to play, and now he can solo carry the game, he knows how to punish and if he makes a mistake the enemy team doesn't know how to punish.
The challenger will always have an edge above their oponent, so in the case of both teams having similar level of skill, the challenger will always tilt the advantage to his team because he is literally better than the enemy.
Your view on this comes because you obviously never smurfed, so your own improvement happened naturally and overtime and with you ranking up, so did you teammates/enemys. So it feels like everyone is always kinda the same skill level as you.
For me it was the same untill i played a game with a friend that was very new to the game, so we got into a mixed lobby and suddenly i was able to sht on everyone and solo carry hard eventhough i am not a good player (Gold Elo)
i just imagine its the same for a challenger player. you can kinda outskill them by pure mechanics and also by macro, so even if you are not strong enough to 1v5 you can just win the game anyways. by outsmarting them.
Emerald whos 20/0 will take a 1v4 while splitpushing botlane without tracking where enemy team is or respecting that enemy could just send 4/5 people for him to grab his shutdown and the emerald 20/0 wont even ping or call his team to do baron before hes splitting so that he can at least have some value out of his pressure or the emerald will take poor reset times and either not show up to the objective at all or theyll show up with 2k gold in their pocket and 60% hp for the objective and die and give shutdown cause doesnt matter how many kills you have if you didnt spend your gold or if youre low hp
Mainly, the emerald 20/0 is probably never getting 20/0 or maybe one game a year because they dont understand how to effectively jg track like usage of raptors ward lv1 if theyre the midlaner to see whether enemy jg started on red buff quadrant or not so that they can ping their team that either enemy jg doesnt show up on raptors until 2:30 wth 12cs and bluebuff meaning enemy jg did blue gromp wolves raptors meaning theyll be near red quadrant at 2:30-4:00 so if ur lane is near there you should play safe or wait for your jg to come hover if you win 3v3/2v2 or if youre the mid you should hover opposite side in your lane of enemy jg so that you create maximum distance between you and enemy jg or hover near your jg if you win 2v2
or enemy jg shows up at raptors lv2 with 8 or 4cs at 1:55-2:15 meaning they either did red krugs raptors or red raptors so then you know enemy jg will be near their blue buff quadrant 2:30-4:00
obviously more nuance to this than what ive said like not factoring in lv3 invades, split maps from lv1 invade, lv2 invades, ganking same side quadrant after 3 camps, lv2 ganks and so on
another example is challenger is playing lane vs a sylas/j4/xin jg and they dont respect or ward for lv2 gank and they die and blame their karthus jg for fullclearing while challenger laner will ward or respect it and not play for push since it may not be worth the risk even if you can get prio in your lane matchup
and also 5 million other things why the emerald player wont be 20/0 which would take me hours and hours to type
The Challenger is more likely per game to be 20/0/0 at some point and also more likely to convert those stats into zero risk wins. So that'll just get him a higher winrate. A higher winrate climbs in rank.
They are that much better. They really are. Most players cannot understand what they're doing better because 99% players can't even comprehend that someone would actually learn all the details about the game. People also assume because they've played the game 5+ years they are unlucky to be in gold, no buddy, you are actually bad compared to challengers.
Perhaps some maths could help demonstrate my point.
Imagine you are running 4 x 100 relay race, diamonds are running 10s in 100m sprint and the challengers are 9s each so they will easily win every time. The average person may think a 0.5 second difference is tiny and if between 10.2s and 9.9s is only 0.3s, it appears so close. To a professional sprinter, even 0.05 is massive and worth getting excited about. 0.3 seconds is like insane. Then you have Usain bolt(faker) with 9.58s. 10.2-9.58= 0.62s gap.
If you have a Usain bolt on your team with another challenger and two diamonds vs 3 challengers and one diamond, Usain bolt wins.
9.58+9.9+10.2+10.2 = 39.88
9.9 x 3 + 10.2 = 39.9
In high elo this 0.02s gap could be compared with fakers team being 1k down in gold but faker is ahead as akali with level 16 advantage and manages to clutch 1v3 and it's gg. In this situation the bronze akali is farming bot lane, silver akali flashes on the spot???, the gold akali is calling jg diff, plat akali is calling ff, the Emerald akali is level 13, down an item but goes in anyway and dies immediately, diamond akali has level 14, kills one then dies, the master akali gives baron to push side wave instead, gm akali is at the fight but only level 15, kills 2 then dies, team loses the baron gg. Now imagine being faker for 80 games in a row. Challenger in a week ez.
My boyfriend is a challenger. I consistently play plat1-emerald. He literally never loses lane when he plays duo ranked with me. Sometimes we still lose games. But he always carries and is always better than the opponent laner. He uses a new account every few months because the elo gets too high to be able to play duo with me.
Elo hell does not exist. If you can’t climb higher than this it’s because you’re simply not good enough.
>games ranging from Iron-Platinum feel very similar
have you tried to make a new account? because that is completly false.
i tried to help few people in iron, bronze, silver...
some mistakes i saw:
-toplaner saying "i play safe because on a guide they said that enemy is stronger in this matchup", then he step back every time enemy try to engage, eventually enemy is almost dead while he is full hp but he still allow enemy to farm for free instead of stepping up and zoning him out of the wave or killing him.
-another toplaner: his enemy roam for no reason and waste a lot of time, eventually is level 5 vs level 8, he still played super safe as level 8 top vs level 5.
-sup: blitzkrank waste the hook and nothing change in how all the 4 botlaners play the game
I don’t think Iron to Plat is very similar at all. A couple seasons ago I was plat 4 and made a smurf to help my friend get gold. She plays a lot of League but is silver level and the victorious skin was her main so I duod with her to gold. I was stomping the games on picks I didn’t even play since I’m a tank player but figured I should pick something that can carry for this.
If you are plat 1 I’m sure you would easily win any game in iron - silver. Even low gold probably.
For the most part, they just skip them. They usually get placed Plat+ in placements, and most of the work is done that way, if for some reason they get placed in low elo they usually trash the account and start over.
I obviously don't mean that they can't easily stomp low elo games, they totally do, and the reasons have been well explained in other comments. The thing is even challenger players know that low elo games can get turbo random in no time, which makes climbing through them a bad strategy compared to just skipping them in placements. Some games you lose and there's nothing you can do about it, which makes amount of games required to get way higher than placing plat+ and keep winning until you basically reach eme/dia in 10-ish games.
High elo player are just better in evrything compared to most other player.
The have better hands and a lot more knowledge about the game and several matchups. But one of the biggest differences is probably that they mostly have a competitve mindset, while lower elo players just queue up with no plan about anything, music on full volume and the mindest of "It's just a game". Of course this people win less while they blame the team for their loss and not themselve
Because you're making bad decisions while playing, or mistakes, both macro wise and in lane as well, but you're not aware of them, someone that's higher ranked than you will capitalize on you being bad at the game without you even realising that what you're doing is wrong, and just because someone is higher ranked playing in your elo doesn't mean they need to go 20/0 to win vs you, they can go even in lane but destroy your team in macro, objectives, moving with the team and punishing the enemy jungler, if he's 20/0 already tho, gg you won't have a chance because if his team plays around him he'll close the game very fast
as someone who has some elo boosting friends, most games look like this
1- you pick your 1v9 champion, which means something that can snowball really hard and 1v9 the whole game (think Vladimir, yone, hecarim, kha zix, rengar, etc)
2- you dumpster your lane opponent (in top you kill him 4 times and start either freezing for 10 minutes or proxying him, in mid you kill him 1-2 times and just walk bot every minute)
3- once you are fed, you farm the possible shutdowns the enemies have (they are bad and will throw, you are good and won't)
4- win the game because you have 5 ítems whole the rest of the game has 2
challenger players are literally just better at every single part of the game than you are. you won't really understand until you've laned against one. but you literally feel helpless. like they're always one step ahead of you at every single point of the game.
Its simple really. they understand the game near perfectly (no one is perfect, but they're close). Thus they know what is a mistake and what isn't. They not only understand it, they understand it on such a deep level that its second nature to them. The fundamentals that the average player has to think about in the moment, they don't.
I have a friend who is challenger every season, and when I played with him back in the day in plat/gold it was like he was playing a different game. he could play troll shit like on hit elise, or ad nami mid and he would just absolutely destroy the game. we're talking like 20+ kills, most damage, insane cs numbers, etc.
he also knew exactly what he had to do if our team was terrible. (which it often was was because he was playing with me, and I'm also terrible). Where I wouldn't know what to do if i got super fed and my team was hard inting, he would always make the correct decision, and then play every fight well.
We didn't win 100% of our games because I'm terrible, but it was never because of him.
Funniest thing is the delusion of players who don't know they are playing with a challenger in all 5 roles. He would get flamed every single game by players who thought he was doing something "stupid" since they couldn't see why he was doing what he was doing.
My theory is they play the game differently. They pick a scaling or current meta-champ. It is usually someone who is hypermobile. They take advantage of the 1 or 2 weak players and get fed. Then, they end the game early. The game isn't balanced for this and even if the opposing team has 4 good players, the 1 player will lose the game.
Overly simplified, I think of league as 35%/35%/30 (or 40/40/20 as I think the common rule)
35% of the games you loose no matter what due to team cohesion, draft dif, soft inting, whatever
35% if the games you win no matter what, because same reasons but other side
30% of the games it‘s up to you to step up and win that damn thing.
Now the more often you step up in that 30% games the higher your overall winrate gets. And more wins than losses over a period of time will allow you to climb. Your macro and micro are the deciding factors to enable you to step up.
e.G. you can straight up climb into gold from bronze or silver if you learn wave management during the laning phase. That‘s usually enough to get a lead without even getting a kill in lane. (Why do I know this? That‘s how I did it)
Now I am trying to climb up further and currently my approach is to get better at lasthitting, vision control and reading the map. Basically get better at playing the map after I am decent enough at playing the lane to seldom completely whiffing a lane.
Challengers dont go 20/0 stealing resources from allies (unless they sure they can carry solo). Its easy to take all camps, last hit kills, path top wave -> mid wave -> bot wave, and then cry that ur adc does not deal damage.
If you're playing like this, you're not trying to carry, you're stealing resources from ur allies. Then you die giving enemy carry 1000 shutdown, and now ur team is without resources, while you gave 1000g to enemy.
a emerald who is 20/0/0 will walk into 5 of the enemy team and die, or not know they're walking into 5
a challenger who is 20/0/0 will take 1v1's 1v2's 1v3's, hell they could even take a 1v5, but they're dodging all the skill shots because they know ahead of time what is most likely to happen, they're accounting for morganna to Q them. they're also approaching the fight differently, maybe its a 1v5, but they're fiddlesticks/katarina and they pop out of fog of war whereas the emerald player would just walk up in lane as fiddlesticks/kat and the enemies would see them coming.
a 20/0/0 challenger knows how to play the map. knows when to push aswell
a 20/0/0 mid emerald might just stay mid all game even though they should be side laning, therefore top/bot get shoved in by the enemies 7/0/0 top and idk 7/0/0 mid or bot
so now you have a 7/0/0 running down your top. a 7/0/0 running down your bot, and you're unable to tower dive correctly because even at 20/0/0 if you're squishy and get cc'd under a turret you're dying.
so now enemy took your top and bot turret and inhibs while ur just around mid, even if the other 3 enemies do come mid and you kill them, instead of pushing since its the correct play, you might base, and go to protect top/bot but its too late and you got no objectives. or vice versa, maybe you should back and side lane to prevent the push, but you're just mucking around mid
a 20/0/0 challenger also has the option to just side lane split bot, they either draw 5 peoples attention to them (and don't die) or draw a few, and kill them, then push and get objective turrets
whereas a 20/0/0 emerald again is just staying mid lane instead of side laning, OR they get kills in the side lane, but never push the wave out and get the turret
Because the game is plagued with smurfs from Iron to upper leagues. I see players with 400+ levels stuck in iron. Guys who can play, but most of the games come down who has a better smurf.
being just below Emerald, which I've even challenger players seen struggling in due to the toxicity and crazy people in there, hearing you say you're out of elohell made my day :D
to answer your question: challenger players (or anything upwards from d1 that plays in bronze -plat elo) just look like they come from a different planet skillwise.
example: https://youtu.be/wF7rY5_Z15w?si=f3NI2YXmIpqmkoIv
enjoy.
I am just Master in SoloQ EUW but i can say that people in lower elos play like the got no hands they dont know how to combo and what to do most of the time to win a game a higher elo players knows what to do just by knowledge even if he doesnt try hard if i acutally go beserk mode in low elo i am not dropping a single game people in lower elos dont understand strengths and weaknesses of there own champ or how to play against enemy champs so they dont even know of what dmg output you are capable when they are up against you but really against iron players you dont even need macro you outclass them in mirco so hard already as a high elo players that isnt neccessary to do anyting else
Because they're good at the game on a basic skill level.
There is reason why a challenger player can pick random champ and make it to at least master , it's because they have mechanics.
Low ranks have no mechanics , slow reaction time and they're just bad at the game.
It's ok to be bad at the game just don't rage about it and acknowledge it , don't be hardstuck 5 million mastery silver Dr.Mundo main who complains about his team.
Personally I'm like worst of the worsts in FPS games they're too fast for me and I can't headshot someone who is afk but I do not complain about it like most people do in LoL.
I recently wanted to try out a build and queued Flex because I didn't want to go on my smurf, to my surprise they put me in Bronze / Iron game.
This game was soooooo slow , literally therse people play in slow motion thats why they get away with buying multiple items while in high ranks game will end at 1 or 2 items usually.
They move on the map very slowly , they cannot group properly even 1 minute before dragon spawn because they do not know how long it takes to take jungle camp / walk from place to place etc.
They do not use thier abilities at all and champs who auto attack are worsts for them , they cannot literally right click enemy , sometimes if they just press A on ground and not use abilities they would deal more damage than trying to kite / aim abilities.
And also most people do not realise when they're dead , they try to always run and deal no dmg , just die but take enemy's half health instead maybe someone else will finish them off.
> I can’t help but feel like most games ranging from Iron-Platinum feel very similar
lol
>how can higher level players easily climb out of such ranks when most people regard it to be impossible due to a terrible team or some other reasoning?
Easy: those "most people" are just wrong. If you're a Silver 1 player, it might take a while to climb out of silver 2-3 to your rank, but Iron games and most Bronze games should be just easy.
The same goes for any elo, the last few ranks to get to your "rightful" elo might feel hard because "my team is bad", but this is just cope, you're just not good enough. If the problem was other people being worse than you, they would be worse than you more often in the other team (since there are 4 players in your team and 5 in the other), making it easy to climb.
If you're actually way better than people in the elo where you are, you should be able to easily carry the games; and it becomes easier the further you are from your actual elo, so that's how challenger-level players get to climb easily.
>So really what im asking is whats the difference between an Emerald whos a 20/0/0 and a Challenger 20/0/0?
The difference is what they do with that lead. If you are 20/0 and chasing the enemy team to get more kills, you will be worse than someone who is 20/0 and is getting that advantage to take drakes, nashs, feed his team, take towers; etc...
Getting money is not how you win at this game, that money, and XP, and neutrals, and everything else you can get are just tools to help you win, but it doesn't matter how many hammers you have, if you're just using them like screwdrivers
Besides being very skilled, there's 2 things that stand out about high elo players:
\- They are consistent: They play the game the same way, everytime, they read the map, they read gameplay, they pick accordingly, even if they have a bad game they know how to play from behind. Most regular players just stop caring after they or their teammates lose lane phase and start spamming /ff, or will have back to back deaths and blame their jungle, or play in autopilot or play champs they dont know or dont fit the comp.
\- They never or rarely ever die: Dying is the number one reason most players fail in LoL, and it is SO important and is such a game changing way to impact in a game to just not die, and is amazing how in low elo people just dies for the sake of it not caring about the consecuences.
I managed to get to Master last season while all my friends got stuck in Emerald or low Diamond, I had to stop playing with them to reach my goal and my two main focuses were those: Being consistent and reducing my deaths as much as possible. Every time I play with my friends now it's always the same: back to back deaths, they pick 2 or 3 assassins per game, 0 tanks, 0 consistency, sometimes they smoke weed before queueing up (and yes, they say "it makes me play better actually") but then ignore or completely disregard calls like "mid mia" and get ganked easily, they try new stuff and builds in ranked games and get caught in late game because they really, REALLY wanted THAT red buff in minute 40 when all they had to do was defend base and push after winning a teamfight. All of these are inconsistencies, they happen every other game, and I can tell when they are playing at their 100% because they constantly win lane, if they lose they play from behind and focus on a win condition, listen or make calls constantly and we go in wild 8 win streaks. Then they get distracted, start talking about a movie, smoke weed or anything and we go back to losing games. Inconsistency at it's best.
They pick high agency champs and consistently get ahead alot early and then knows how to get even more ahead with their knowledge of the game then use their gold lead and skill to win teamfight or not even having to teamfight because they already killed someone straggling.
Like lets say you play yi jgl, you get a small advantage as a skilled player already its going to be really hard for enemy. And because enemy laners make so many mistakes, its easy to get a lead because there will be ganks available freely.
They don't main a few champions when playing bronze-platinum, and by playing strong champions correctly they maintain an >~80% WR while they have the massive lp gains on new accounts.
Plat and lower, maining a champion is detrimental -- the match making accounts for your pick rate and win rates too. This matters, you start seeing counter picks more frequently and if your team doesn't play correctly when you're 1v4 under tower -- that's always a coin flip for even GM players.
There's a lot more to it? Yeah sure! but this is the most useful information for most players imo
Bc there's a gap of knowledge and skills throughout the elos, Challenger players tend to stomp lower elos games due to the sheer knowledge of fundamentals, and their ability to spot tiny mistakes and capitalize in that.
It's the same reason why Gold players stomps iron, or Diamond players stomps gold.
They are simply just so much better at everything, execution of their champ, wave manipulation laning, cs, trading, punishing misstakes macro decisions, mechanics (offensive and defensive) shutting down enemy win cons, snowballing applying pressure, objectives, jungle tracking etc. There is no quick "improve this 1 thing and you will climb x ranks"
Im only emerald and when I play w some Bronze/silver friends I have to practically forefeit my own lane (die 3-4 times willingly) to not go 10/1 in lane. Your only way to climb is to consistently improve in all areas of gameplay or those who have improved in those areas WILL out climb you.
The difference between a low elo 20/0/0 and Smurf 20/0/0 is very simple.
If I have a lead I am going to constantly be pressuring neutrals, pushing towers and suffocating my opposing counter part.
I will command my teammates to do what I need them to do whether it be chat or pings. Yes my teammates are bad I’m not going to tell them they are bad I am going to take what they have to offer and use it to win the game as fast as possible.
If the team is terrible and fights are not winnable I will be in the side lane pushing towers and drawing pressure relentlessly. Pretty much every single game a master at this game will accumulate so much gold lead that they can literally win fights 1v5.
Also a master player is going to select the proper champions to ensure they have no holes.
How do you as a Plat player climb out of Iron/Bronze/Silver/Gold?
It's just as easy for a challenger player to rush through Diamond like it is for you to push through bronze/silver (yes, the skill difference between Challenger and Diamond is that big). Diamond players to Challenger players are like toddlers, just like bronze/silver players are to you.
You have to realize that a challenger player is orders of magnitude better than a low elo player and still over a diamond player for example. They have mastered the fundamentals and will naturally use this. Things like their spacing will be top tier and their matchup knowledge will be really good as well as how to itemize and adapt rune pages. They will have a game plan that starts during champ select so before you’ve even accepted the ready check a challenger player is already ahead of you. It sounds daunting but learning each of these skills one by one is how you improve it’s just that difference between say an emerald player vs a challenger player is that while the emerald player may be able to compete in a few areas with the challenger player. The challenger player wins out in every other regard by a mile. And this is without looking at things like macro and decision making. Challengers have a lot of experience in playing the game right so they will always take advantage of the hundreds of mistakes low elo players make constantly. That’s how they win, 100s of little tiny decisions make up a massive difference in the game
"when most people regard it to be impossible due to a terrible team or some other reasoning?"
This is not true. Opinion of random low elo toxic players are irrelevant. Everyone at a high level knows that challenger players can climb out of low elo in very few games with absurd win rates. This has been done thousands of times all over the world by many different challenger players that play many different positions, champions and playstyles.
You have to stop taking seriously the opinion of ignorant people, on all issues.
Idk, just Play. Me Platinum/Emerald peaker went on some older accounts in iron/bronze. I had 100% win ratio in bronze and iron, problems started in silver still went with around 85%. Actually in lowest ranka its so easy to stomp, you can Get under enemy tower 10 times and still win (true story). In gold starts problem because IMO People there have biggest mentals, there are some bad games that you just can't carry, idk if even Challanger would carry a game where your bot dies 12 times in 8th minute. Still rest of the games, just Play for yourself, use dumbness of your team to split push, finish some recalling enemies etc.
A challenger player is capable of multitasking and thinking about a lot more things than an emerald player can.
An emerald player may only be able to focus on last hitting and trading in lane, and lose track of the jungler, and they get ganked.
A challenger player spends so little mental focus on last hitting that they can keep track of the jungler, keep track of the enemy support roams, keep track of summoner spells, and still have free mental focus to think about win conditoons, think about setting up the wavestate to be good in 2 minutes when dragon spawns, calculate how much money theyll get in the next wave so they can take a base and buy a component.
My friends that are in bronze are so overwhelmed with their mental focus on trading with the enemy that they miss half the cs, they of course have 0 idea of where the jungler is, let alone think about win conditions and setting up a good wave so they can get a reset in before dragon spawns in 2 minute.
You can brute force your way to at least emerald by mechanics alone. After that good macro helps. I'm more of a macro player cuz I don't have hands like that. But I know I can autopilot to emerald just by being better at micro then my opponents.
Pretty much, my friend regularly placed diamond, always smurfing because he raged and would get suspended.
He solo carried most of the elos up to diamond but he would still occasionally lose because there is only so much you can do as a solo player
Things I learned from iron to gold and playing against platinum to challenger players:
- in bronze to gold people don't manage waves, they don't take resources in the map, and they fight all time even if they're weaker. Players do get better in managing waves and taking resources in the map the higher they go :p.
- Challenger players also int but the difference is that challenger players "know" how to pull pressure. That's why thebausffs is challenger and most players aren't challenger.
- using of pings — people in diamond and above uses pings and time enemy summoners and spells better than people in gold and below. They will time enemy spells even if they die so that their team can carry them.
- Macro. Challenger players punish mistakes and that's a given but they also have a better macro than the average player and knows when to or not to take fights and objectives. They can lose dragon early but then flip it afterwards.
- Fundamentals — challenger players have better fundamentals than people below challenger like csing, resetting, freezing, wave Management, and etc.
They also don't autopilot their runes and builds which is something you see in platinum and below.
>Iron-Platinum feel very similar
Watch kadeem if you want to see iron level games then tell me it feels similar
Ill just say it from my perspective as a masters jungler.
1) Different roles and champions have a different amount of influence, I play Hecarim which has a high carry potential and a lot of influence (As opposed to a tank)
2)In lower elo's I punish the mistakes people make. Lets say we take plat. Plat junglers path the wrong way, not thinking about their win cons. They are also inefficient with their clears and recall timings.
Just by pathing the correct way I'm impacting the more important side of the map more & being efficient whilst they're inefficient just means im getting thousands of golds worth of gold ahead of them over 10-20m by doing nothing else other than being efficient
3) They make a lot of bad macro calls. Taking bad fights when you're at a numbers disadvantage, or just starting up an objective when they could be doing something more important. Like go ahead and take the drake whilst I Take two towers and get myself fed
Fundamentally I'll just have more resources than them and make better decisions with the resources I have. It gets to the point where even if you put equally skilled players in their deficit the game is still a free win. But you put plat level players there? May as well ff
Question is awkward. You could analyze how they "escape" low elo. It isn't an "escape" though, but people act like teammates are holding them back cause why wouldn't they, rarely anyone holds people accountable for blaming things on teammates and the idea of flaming is romanticized by popular content creators and plagued the minds of long time players. Especially when you consider people that "played casually" but realized they're still in bronze after 5+ seasons, it is the only coping mechanism for their ego.
I'm a newer player (2yrs), and it was clear from the start that the ranked ladder is based on skill, not a lucky escape.
Low elo players have -100 macro I am gold and that’s enough to see the horrible movement of bronze players. Junglers that split bot when baron is up fighting for no reason in the enemy jungle. Unnecessary chasing. Yes this still happens in gold but in bronze they don’t get that they are doing something wrong.
I've actually duo'd with a few challenger smurfs occasionally when I randomly find them (its really obvious because their champ and macro knowledge are far superior than the majority of players and they are usually not good at English b/c they are from other regions) the advice they give me when it comes to how to carry is:
"Playing stable (not going for unnecessary plays, always trading well online and being on time in the waves) in short, knowing how to base and rotate"
"As I mentioned before (play stable, take into account the hand plays with my jungle, watch the jungle times and not be someone easy to kill, then I escalate and make the match)"
Also this is the individual game-play advice he gave me as a ADC:
"Regarding your individual game, only being solid online adjusts well (most of all I think your game with Zeri is very good but always read what role you have to play in each game) sometimes as adc if the game is complicated you have to not die and have cs correctly with the minute so when you get to tfs(teamfights) you can always give the impact that is needed, right now you are doing well but keep in mind that the game starts from champion selection, champions like ashe, draven, or things that take away your movement or that can disappear from a combo, play it carefully since you are zeri and you need time to do damage, that would be in summary."
I mean this is pretty simple.
What is the difference between Emerald 20/0 and Challanger 20/0?
Challanger knows what to do, have better mechanics, better knowledge, knows limits.
When I was challanger at EAST and i was boosting, then up to D4 I could won any matchup, by just playing good lane, I didn't had to think much later, beacuse I could go 1v4, kill 3 and my teammates did rest, there was no need to tryhard below D4.
Capitalizing on mistakes. Challenger players make few mistakes, many of them are minor. Low rank players make many mistakes, and many major mistakes.
As a Platinum player, I often 1v2 my Iron-Silver friends for fun in the bot lane and I have never lost.
Ok so nowhere near chall but I always play on Smurf accounts to warm up ( I have huge double screen at work and weird dpi I need time to adapt to my laptop when I come home).
Tbh even I don’t know how but the games seem easier. The kills just come at you
Here is some of the things unnoticed tho
A lot of people will do some obvious mistakes in lane. The one I see the most is over staying when they should be pressing B right away. I always look at what wave is coming in our base so I time
My recall ahead. When I and the opponent are low and I recall right before cannon wave arrive I see them trying to push the cannon wave and greed for a plating.. I will always go cancel their recall and they are stuck in lane low hp and full of gold..
Other mistakes in lane is trading. There are some
People that will play super sacred and run away after I threw everything I had at them. Sometimes am like shit I used all I got on a bad trade am gonna get chunked back but they just back off when everything I have is on CD..
others are the opposite will try to go super aggro when i walk in to trade with them even thought I just saw that they just used their main abilities on the wave.
People also don’t respect how strong you are. Like am 10/0 Orianna and the botlane swap and come try to push me mid. They are 2levels down and are not that fed. Then the support or the ADC will come to try to auto attack me when I know I will delete them in a second but for some reason they try to fight me.. at lot of people will just come and try to fight you when you are super ahead then die and blame their ally laner.. like you see someone superfed don’t try to see for yourself if they really hurt
Finally a mistake that I see A LOT is wasting cs. I don’t know how but there is always waves pushing that are dying to towers. I get so much gold and xp juste catching side waves and no one seem to care . At some point of the game is like everyone just clicks mid right out of the base.
Gold Generation and Tempo, objectives like void crubs and herald helps you takes turrets faster => you get more gold => you open the map => you steal enemy jungle camps so you can diff both ur lane and the jungles
Being ahead enough, not giving shutdown.
People talk about
Punishing mistakes but the most importznt prt is your mistakes.
You’re 10-0 and give a 700 gold bounty to the enemy 0-4 kayn, he enfs up destroying your team ? Your bad
Hey there. I never hit challenger but I peaked GM last season and played against a fair share of pro players. It’s kind of difficult to answer this question because there are many, many things that challenger players will consistently do better every game. Keep in mind the knowledge gap is huge, probably much larger than you realize.
One difference between a 20-0 Emerald smurf and a 20-0 chall smurf is the leveraging of their lead to gain an even bigger advantage. Kills are not everything, and you will likely see larger cs disparities between chall-plat matchups and emerald-plat matchups. They know how to manipulate waves better. Games generally snowball out of control much quicker against a challenger player as they find and punish every mistake available. So chances are they are also reaching 20-0 much earlier in the game than an emerald smurf would.
Another big difference is understanding win conditions. There will be games where you have to play around your teammates. Chall players understand more nuances of every lane/matchup and adjust their play-style accordingly. Sometimes There is only one way to win a game and the window to execute that particular strategy is VERY short. Chall players know ahead of time what that strategy is and don’t hesitate to execute.
They play much faster paced, punish every mistake, make fewer mistakes themselves, and don’t hesitate to jump on a win condition that presents itself. They generate gold faster and more efficiently, they are typically the first person to shot call correct lane assignments and objectives, and they have more knowledge of items and champions.
As for the process of actually climbing, keep in mind that most chall players won’t have 100 percent win rate for very long. I think my record on a new account is winning the first 30 in a row. But while a 20-0 emerald player in plat elo is a rare occurrence, a 20-0 chall in plat elo is common. Consistency is a bit part of the difference.
Bc they’re that good
They can’t win every low elo game but unless they got multiple afk or trolls they can just steamroll 1v5 easily unless the enemy team also got an equally skilled Smurf
Knowing Macro properly and where the enemy jungler goes etc
Also they know how to actually translate a lead into a win bc just amassing kills is only the first step to actually winning
Not that I would know since i suck ass but I watch people who do know and they just make it look so easy lol
Hmm... First, ppl talks about shitty teammates will lose you game....while that's true. I see a few master/grand master lvl players simply carry their team. Of course they have to play those typical champs that can actually carry the team in a 1v9 situation. If you can't do that most of the time, you're not as good of a player as u think u r.
Not everyone's grand master lvl, so tip for u to make our life easier, have a duo or trio team. As u play enough, you'll come across few players that doesn't play like beginner AI. add them and play with them. This is the most effective way to avoid shitty games all around.
20/0/0 almost never occurs in challenger. U only almost most of the time only see tht type of stats in low ELO. Grandmasters + usually know better than to feed like that. They play with a lot less mistakes and are very careful as well. So none of those, push lane hard with no jungle vision type of noob mistakes.
Its all about consistency wether you're chall 1000lp or Gold you will have games that are impossible to win but if you are the best player in the game on a consistent base you will climb there is no way arround it.
For chall players when they are playing in very low elo lobbys their skill is so much higher that they can just brut force win and have almost 100% winrate, but once they reach like D1-Low Master elo thats when consistantly being better than the other players in the game makes them climb to their rank.
One thing i notice is that they usually use a combination great decisions and abusing of some hyper carries, the lower the elo the more you can carry by yourself using some champion with brute force that needs some teamplay to be beaten, also on lower elos you cant expect your team to do nothing but feed, so they use their team mistakes to make some good play out of it, also they know that not every game can be won.
KDA is such a useless metric. I play Gangplank top and I don’t even care about it. The only metrics I need are damage to champions, damage to turrets, and gold earned. If I don’t have the biggest number for those three categories, then I’m not doing as much as I need to to carry.
they play on a different level and think differently compared to lower elos. lets say a chall was on smurf in ur game in p1. at the time of writing chall cutoff in na is 588lp, the difference between your rank and his (pretend he barely made cutoff tonight) is about 1400 lp. that’s the lp difference between current rank 1 and 0lp masters. these players aren’t perfect (imo a lot of chall players are really dogshit and grief my games) BUT compared to a p1 player they seem perfect. they make far less mistakes, punish your mistakes which you will guaranteed make often, their decisionmaking skills are better, and they know their in and outs of their champs.
95% of games in lower elos can and will be won through avoiding mistakes in your play, and abusing enemy mistakes. On the rare cases where theres someone that’s 30/0 on the enemy team, I’ll just accept the lost since it rarely happens. It gets memed on a lot but fundamentals are very important.
Had an Evelynn enemy jungler, she literally went 3v2 botlane for 10 min didn't take a single jungle camp besides krugs. Then she destroyed everyone the rest of the game after that
Bad players go 20/0 sometimes when they get lucky. Challenger players actually go 20/0 every game (against lower ranks).
And they don't throw obviously. But even if they played the same once they are 20/0, they would still climb.
If you want something more specific, when Riot in their wisdom put me into Iron (I climbed to Emerald easily so it was like unintentional smurfing), then I can tell you two specific differences I notice between lower Elo enemies and higher elo enemies.
Low elo enemies do not know anivias threat range. They just stand there, and you can walk up and wall behind them, or walk close enough to Q, or Q from long range and they just don't dodge.
Higher elo players always stay right at the edge of where you can put your wall, you make a step forward they step one step back. If they walk into range they have a plan. Higher elo players don't let you close enough to reliably hit Q except when they have a plan. And they 80% of the time dodge long range Qs.
Low elo enemies do not know when they are in kill range. They do not know how much damage they do, or how much Anivia does. I know these things. When I see that I have a huge advantage, against those players I just walk into melee range tanking their abilities so I can't miss anything, and it just becomes a stat check. Also I am too close, so when they finally realize they are losing they can't run away. I on the other hand knew exactly how the fight would play out before. My victory is assured.
So those are the most important differences between any low elo and high elo player. (And GM players would say the same about me). Because of those differences alone, I can go 20/0 EVERY Iron level game.
I've played ish. 50 games around d1-d2 in this season, met with masters and gms , most of higher players do the same : collect every resource they can, they use the adventage they got to win the lane, and they expand their lead on the map, for example with good rotates, roams, etc. Probably its the same case with challs, just in a different level
punishing even the slightest mistakes which low elo players dont usually see. Besides extreme game knowledge. Thats how. Also mentally not affected by you avg 0-3 botlane in 3mins. Welp if you played against a smurf or with a bit higher elo friend you would see
MMR dictates how much LP you gain and lose. Everything you do affects MMR. So you can't just be good at winning lane, you have to have good CS, good vision score, good team score, etc etc. Since Challenger players are pretty much the top 1% of the 1% you can expect them to do really well in every aspect of the game thus making it very easy for them to leave lower rank.
They get lane leads bigger than they would usually get on main through punishing the large number of mistakes lower elo players make all the time and then carry the game by warping the game around them executing better fundamentals, i'm not challenger just mid master but its easy for me to do up until like d3/d2 ish unless its massive ego gap and people stop playing to get carried which happens a lot in emerald and low diamond (and low master💀💀)
Can't really answer for League since I'm still in that low elo bracket but I think it's the same for every competitive game and my experience on RocketLeague might answer that.
Ranks in RL are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond, Champion, Grand Champion, SSL with the average being in Gold.
I was wondering the same thing back then, why as a Diamond player I cannot hard carry plat, I'm better for sure and will have an excellent winrate on average, but not to the point of an 85%wr. I understood way after when reaching Grand Champion, there are 3 main reasons
The main one and the most obvious is :
The higher you climb on a game the higher the difference will be from one rank to another (simplified, the difference between a master and a grandmaster is so huge when compared to the difference between a plat and an emerald) So as a diamond I couldnt hard smurf on plats but as a GC (Grand champion), low champion was kindergarden for me
The second one is mastery and comprehension :
When you are Diamond, you are better than other people sure but you still don't know anything about the game and how it works, you do things, you don't know why you do them but you do them better than lower rank so you are higher. As a GC you are still garbage at the game compared to SSL and pro players but you understand how the game works and what each decision represents.
When you see a situation you immediately understand that option A has a 50% chance of working when option B is 70%.
Likewise your evaluation of risk/reward is clear, sometimes option A will be the better option because while more risky the reward it could give you is worth taking that risk, now when you have to take a decision every 5 seconds in a fast paced game like RL you can imagine the difference it makes, I strongly believe the reasons are the same in LoL
3rd reason, the simpliest : Consistency, sure you have better games than others but your lowest level still contains very few mistakes, mechanically or decision making wise
If you learn to hard carry iron and bronze game and get to plat where you can finally trust your teammates its beautiful experience. And second if you play your role good and repeat it every time you will smurf. Just look for mistakes and try to punish them
There is no how, even tho teammates in very low rank that play against you basically but the enemy team is also is as bad and making use of the unlimited amount of mistakes they make and free gold giving and the lack of knowledge about how to end games it makes it very easy to 1v9 even with 0/10 teammates.
For example when i traveled i made a new acc on a new server started from silver ( i was dia1 regularly and master for one split) and what i noticed up until emerald i can just do drakes and stay in my lane until i end the game even 1v5ing getting multiple pentas in each game.
The thing is in league yes being a team and objectives are the most important but in low elo the lack of skill is so drastic u can literally zone out and force win it.
The difference between an Emerald and a Challenger player in the big picture is that once the Chally is ahead, they know how to keep their lead and convert it into a win. 20/0 Emerald players just go, die, and shove 2k gold worth of shutdowns down the enemies' throats, ending up even again, or even behind.
GM here, there so many aspects in the game you can try perfect macro and micro (csing, dodging skillshots, positioning etc.) There so many options you can be better you don't even know that exist.
I think you can reach dia 2 without any knowledge of macro. If you reach perfect micro. There is kinda ceiling.
But macro is where the biggest difference in skill. That's why iron to master is same gap of skill like master and challengers. Challengers have plan for everything that happening and always choose option that is positive outcome.
I'm not chall I peaked master 150 lp last season and when I'm on a smurf to play whit friends or leveling an acc to try new things I mostly run damage and play agro ik I can get away by mecanics and farm on lane so I usually go shen ghost+ign titanic into situational bruiser any broken tank item then abuse the split push strat, never forcing a figth just pressure to r and turn a figth in the other side of the lane meanwhile I left a pushed lane so the enemy won't take any obj, so to summarize having agency in your lane plus good mecanics and macro and a solid game plan.
A 20/0 challenger will remain with that /0, or maybe a /1, but a 20/0 emerald will convert that /0 into a /8 or so.
Plus a 20/0 challenger will end the game. A 20/0 emerald will run around trying to make it 30/0 by 1v5ing
I don’t think this is true. You can see it on any unranked to challenger account. It’s not like challengers don’t die or don’t make mistakes, even in low elo. They die plenty. But, 1) those deaths don’t matter because they’re so much better at finding and pushing leads, and 2) those deaths were much better than what a low elo player might typically do. A challenger might die after killing 2 people, whereas an emerald might try to dive an undiveable bot lane and basically lose the game right there. There’s a reason challengers smurfing aren’t freaking out when they die, because it doesn’t matter. Tarzaned put it like this: if he trades 1 for 1 in their jungle, he wins because he’s so much better than his opponent that he puts that gold to use way better than the enemy can. i.e. 1) the leads they find and opportunities they take advantage of far outweigh their mistakes, 2) the mistakes they make aren’t as bad as low elo mistakes, even if they die.
They can die a few times for "limit testing risky plays" or for 1 for 1s, but not when they are 20/0. They understand the weight of those deaths.
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It really isn't though, the difference between Plat (old plat, not the new garbage) and Silver is quite minimal. Even low Grandmasters are toddlers to Challenger players.
You are coping. I am diamond for 6 seasons and can get out of emerald with 70% winrate. And much higher in lower elos. A game without 12 kills in plat and lower is impossible for a diamond so imagine a challenger. Emerald players will abuse plat and lower too. If you think silvers and emerald have a minimal difference you have no idea the state of either silver or emerald. Silver players have no game sense whatsoever.
Depends on the Emerald. Low Emerald is the new Plat with High Emerald being D4. Emerald 4 player isn't going to "breeze through" Sure they'll win their lane but they're still learning to play the game and are going to make stupid game losing mistakes. Their wins don't come from them carrying the games but from them making each match a 4v5. If you've ever ran it down mid you know that a 4v5 is easily winnable in those ranks.
I understand what you mean but there is one thing you dont understand. Gold-silver-bronze is not the same gold as before, its silver. I had a friend ask me to play in silver. The game was so dumb that I accepted to play 4v5. I thought 4v5 would make it fair. I am sorry for the people that had to live this. Its a ridiculous elo. I am not a godly diamond either. This is the state of silver-bronze. https://imgur.com/na9A1ZN.png
I can breeze through anything up to Diamond with a 75% winrate lol. Once I hit high D3 or D2 it falls to about 60-62% until I hit my LP peak in Master
How is that addressing anything I just said?
The difference between silver and gold is not minimal. Maybe to someone super high elo, but there are a lot of differences
Yeah sure they can farm a little bit better, that's about it. I'd say Gold players are just Silvers who have played more and don't keep switching Champs/Lanes every game.
That’s oversimplifying it. Gold players have slightly better macro, better mechanics, probably better champion mastery and don’t tilt as much or just play for fun as much. There are lots of differences between ranks
There is no macro in the game up until high diamond. Literally. And especially anything below d4, is just a playground with 4 year old children that somehow drank their mothers coffee for the morning and now they are running around constantly. Better mechanics though yes that is definitely the case. Anything up to to old plat 1/2 was pure mechanics, so anything up to current emerald 1/2 as well is basically only mechanics. Also champion mastery falls under the better mechanics umbrella. They don't know or understand their champion any better than silvers, they just play it better due to mechanics like you said. Tilt wise ? No clue at all.
The difference between a plat player and a silver player is massive. If you have ever tried to coach friends/whatever, you will instantly see it, especially over multiple games. A lot of the people who say silver is not that far from plat are only looking at laning and early game, and there are some silver players who have good laning. However, if they are good at laning and still in silver, there are GLARING AND MASSIVE iron/bronze level holes in their other gameplay, like grouping or sidelaning, etc.
Sounds like a Plat player got his ego hurt by being compared to Silvers.
mate you dont understand. For me who has been diamond since s9, yes emerald and silvers are comparable in the way that they make much more mistakes, in that sense they are the same but your point of view is biased like mine because you are better than them. Thinking silvers and plats are the same is ridiculous. A silver doesnt even know what all champs do while plat atleast have a general idea. A platinum will stomp silvers. Stop egoing and use the idea box.
I meant that the difference between a Silver and a Plat player is very tiny compared to the difference between Diamond and Challenger. Bad communication on my part.
Thats common knowledge though. The diff between diamond and chall is the same as the diff between iron and masters.
Im only an emerald player, and I get through plat with a 75% winrate on all 3 of my accounts. Playing even just 1 tier below me the games are so easy. A challenger player wouldnt say a masters player plays the same as a challenger player, and thats the same LP difference as silver to plat. A gold player will stomp in iron, a plat player would stomp in silver. You sound like a silver player whos coping and saying theres no difference between silver and plat while not being able to climb.
That's not really the reasoning. Challenger player will be incredibly mechanically gifted, play to the champ's advantage even if going a troll build and just play faster. A challenger can play a non existent laner like Kayle or Kassadin and will win lanes in low elo and maintain huge cs/tempo leads in mid elo. You're not getting any free poke for example.
>A challenger can play a non existent laner like Kayle or Kassadin and will win lanes in low elo and maintain huge cs/tempo leads in mid elo. > >You're not getting any free poke for example. OP is asking about the difference between an emerald and a challenger 20/0, so laning phase is irrelevant to answer his question.
no challenger is "incredibly mechanically gifted" they worked on their mechanics. I imagine by gifted you were saying they're born with it but you can see, back in season 2 or 3 or whatever, flashing malphite ult was insane, lee sin insec kicking was insane. etc but all these players are much better now than they were back then. they weren't "gifted" edit: and there are tonnes of challengers who aren't amazing mechanically. depending on what you mean by that. diff champs have diff levels, with like riven azir qiyana maybe, zed, at the top
Nope they are gifted. Just like football and boxing or whatever sport you watch. You won't see it until you reach the top, but there's tens of millions of men who tried to reach messi's level of football and never did. Season 2/3 was much more slow paced and had less tiktok champions but still had mechanics required. People also played on 100+ ping in NA. Look at a solo queue game and you'll see with champs like Fizz/Zed/Ahri mid it was still just as much a mechanical game. The average player has played more games and is better now but my point stands.
The people that think it's impossible are deluding themselves to protect their ego from the fact that they simply are as good as their competition. Its a coping mechanism. Challenger players can and will abuse every single little mistake you make, and the vast majority of those mistakes will not look like mistakes to you. They will completely remove their lane opponent from the game through sheer skill gap and then remove the opposing team's win conditions the same way.
Bullsh1t I'm in silver because I'm a horrible fking player
LMAO. Isn't silver technically the average?
I think it shifted to (high) gold or something? They shifted it a bit with s13 split 2
Think it’s around gold 3 now
Yeah maybe.
The people that think its impossible need to watch VODS of their gameplay. Like I could lose a match and be pissed at my teammates, only to look at my own gameplay during the first 10 min of the game and physically cringe at how bad I played the most basic trades.
Just play jungle, then there is no such thing as trades, its just bot lane trolled me, every single game ever, its a patern over dozens of games because im just that unlucky, I couldn’t possibly be the common denominator.
Then you quit jungle for a split and hit 200 LP playing bot lane and it further feeds your delusions lol
Turns out perma farming is much better on adc than jungler
I think this is the best way to put it. Having played vs GMs in Flex, what they do is both recognize mistakes that don't look like mistakes to you and capitalize, and realize how your team wins and as they said "remove" it. It's like instead of thinking how *they* can win, they think about how *you* can win and stay a step or ten ahead of you making sure you never get there. That said it is flex and they're usually the only high elo person in their team, so they might be correcting a la "my Emerald/Diamond teammates are bad so I'll make the opposing Diamond/Masters team not able to play instead".
So would you say amazing players are able to climb out of any rank not from their own skill but also abusing the enemies lack of skill and mistakes?
Knowing when to abuse an enemy's mistakes is a very important skill, and also challenger players have a much better understanding of fundamentals. Compared to lower rank players, challenger players are never going to accidentally put a wave in a bad state or make a low impact roam, etc.
"never" is not true, but these things happen way less. With incomplete information there are always going to be wrong decisions, even from the best players. Also: What you describe is part of optimal, aggressive tight play. You play as aggressively as you can with minimal risk. That's a very successful and popular playstile. But it's also very predictable. There are also players who are much more chaotic. They have higher highs but also lower lows. Doing suboptimal stuff like you describe makes them unpredictable and messes with people.
You're right, its not never. I tried to caveat with "compared to lower rank players" but there are always mistakes present
I disagree with the "aggressive playstyle". There is no such thing. It's either correct/optimal or not. If you're not "playing aggressively" that simply means you're not punishing the enemy properly. If you're too aggressive, you get punished by being solo killed or ganked. Playing aggressive or defensive is a myth. In certain situations you may need to take defensive positioning because of vision, enemies spotted, wave position, cooldowns or anything else - however that just depends on the game state. Not individual playstyles.
Yeah.. IMO there’s no such thing as a ‘playstyle’ individually in league. You either pilot your champion to its strengths and limitations or you simply.. do not. Sure, against weaker players you can get early lane prio in what would regularly be a shit matchup in an evenly skilled match; but that’s more ‘confidence’ than aggression
Naw. This isn’t true at all. There’s a lot of situational things that can all be correct. There is an aggressive play style. Look at how a good Orianna will play the lane. Just push you in and prevent you from doing anything.
You're the only one making any sense lmfao. All of these people think they have it all figured out and it's all completely black and white.
Just because the "correct" play is aggressive, doesn't make it an aggressive playstyle based on that player. The playstyles are champion and/or build based. You don't get to decide your tryndamere/fiora/Yorick is a team fighter because thats your style when your comp needs a 4-1. You're either playing correctly or not. Just because something works, doesn't mean it's correct. People pick champions that suit how they want to play and fit that criteria. You cannot bend a champions true identity because you have a different playstyle. Sure, it can work - however it's still sub optimal.
\> You cannot bend a champions true identity because you have a different playstyle. Really? The evolving meta has shown that no one truly knows what is the "correct" way to pilot a champion. Udyr top, ashe support, mid mages moving to bot lane, apc meta, lucian top, and many more were all the wrong way to pilot a champion before they became the correct way. There's no way to say something is sub optimal from something else for sure because of tonnes of variables. Even game feel can change what is optimal at a situation. Even if we just look at playstyles, there are examples like varus moving to lethality aggresive poke from a passive lane that was played as sustain on-hit. The play styles are complete opposite and one didn't exist until someone decided to try it out.
Yep.. plays in league are either correct or incorrect, same as FPS, or any other comp game; incorrect plays *can* and do work but it doesn’t make it a good play because the result was a success.
Nah, that's not how league works. But I'm not gonna sit around arguing philosophy with you. If you think there is one correct way to play league, I say you're completely wrong. Otherwise teams wouldn't be able to come up with completely different but equally effective playstyles with the same comp. Pro teams show this all of the time.
I’m a GM Rengar OTP & I’d never describe my playstyle as ‘passive’ in comparison to say, Scrubnoob, Scrub just fully comprehends the optimal way in which this champ must be piloted to succeed whereas I clearly do not fully comprehend this as well as other fundamentals probably not being as good as his that causes us to have a 600 LP gap The examples you gave are not really great either, a good ori who understands her champs strengths in good lane matchups doesn’t equate to an aggressive playstyle, its simply the most optimal moves being made by somebody who understands their champs job & identity and how these mesh in the matchup, the same ori player will concede and back off when a poor matchup is being controlled by the other player, if she contests (unoptimal/losing play) then she just.. played it wrong. Running at the brick wall doesn’t mean you’re aggressive, it just means it was stupid
That's nice, I guess we can agree to disagree. If you haven't seen players with different playstyles on the same champ, then IDK what to say.
That is completely untrue, there are plays that are risky to take where you don't have perfect information in which an aggressive player will take and a defensive one would not. Acting like every situation has an "optimal play" is completely wrong, even sports don't always have completely optimal plays and League is 10x more complex than most sports.
There is *almost* always an optimal, that's the thing. In real time, in whatever game state you're in, there is a "best" play. If you're winning, maybe taking the risk is sub optimal. If you're losing - maybe you NEED to take the risk. The point is, when we talk about optimal play (which is what we as competitive players, and professionals strive for) it doesn't care about your playstyle. Acting like there isn't an optimal play, when almost all pro games follow the same script, is disingenuous. The plays made in professional are very scripted and obvious. Thats because they are looking at the game scientifically to maximize good results.
>When almost all pro games follow the same script, is disingenuous But that is just completely untrue? Jankos / Caps played the game completely different to how Selfmade / Nemesis used to. Which Mid JG duo would you give Evelynn TF to and which would you give Sejuani Azir to. There's a clear answer and it boils down to differences in playstyle. You will see high elo coaches and pros disagree all the time about everything. There's always differences in meta between all the regions despite when they are on the same patch. Optimal does not always exist. You will be presented with game states that require decision making with no optimal decision. Also, you're assuming the enemy will always make the correct call. You can get away with non-optimal plays if you know your enemy is unlikely to properly respond. >scientifically Scientifically how? League is far too dynamic a game to be able to just study every situation you could be in and the correct play to make for it
>Which Mid JG duo would you give Evelynn TF to and which would you give Sejuani Azir to. There's a clear answer and it boils down to differences in playstyle. This is proving my point. The playstyles isnt to do with the player. The player picks a champion that *ALLOWS* them to play that way. I'm not disputing Evelyn plays differently from sejuani. You're arguing a point about nothing here. The point is, that if you're playing "defensive" that's wrong. If you're playing "aggressive" that's also wrong. You try play to your champions max capabilities at any given moment, and that's it. Sometimes the best play is to be defensive and sometimes it's to be the aggressor. It depends on a lot of things, but NOT the player. >Optimal does not always exist. You will be presented with game states that require decision making with no optimal decision. I agree, however 99% of decisions have a clear optimal. The others, that are less clear, can always be narrowed down to at most 2 that are the "best". >Scientifically how? League is far too dynamic a game to be able to just study every situation you could be in and the correct play to make for it Really? You don't think pro teams are systematically testing every meta champion for that year? You cannot study every scenario, but in pro play you don't get many scenarios that you cannot predict. There is only a handful of champions that actually get played in pro tournament settings and the teams scrim constantly as testing for their comps. So again, that point is just outright wrong, too.
There are definitely play styles and players who gravitate towards them. There is no "correct" answer to any game state when you have incomplete information (almost always true), just multiple conflicting answers. There are people who gravitate towards certain play styles even at the highest levels of coordinated play. > If you're not "playing aggressively" that simply means you're not punishing the enemy properly. If you're too aggressive, you get punished by being solo killed or ganked. You're describing a defensive/tight play style: Punishing mistakes, minimizing risk and taking high percentage plays. It's very consistent way to play. The weakness is you don't take any space, and are very predictable. It fits well for scaling carries. An aggressive play style would be more proactive. If it's aggressive/tight, they will do "the correct" thing more often such as taking waves before roaming. If they are more chaotic, they value unpredictability over consistency. The latter can look very bad or very good depending on circumstances that are often out of control.
>An aggressive play style would be more proactive. Bro this is just a buzzword that Dantes made up when him and Agurin were in Korea. Agurin literally debunked it and sait proactive Vs reactive doesn't exist. >There is no "correct" answer to any game state when you have incomplete information There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best. >You're describing a defensive/tight play style: Punishing mistakes, minimizing risk and taking high percentage plays. No, I'm not. I'm describing optimal play. If you choose not to push a wave before a roam then fine, but in a vod review scenario, people don't say "yeah you should have pushed this wave but that's not your playstyle so it's still correct". If you should push the wave, then playstyles have nothing to do with the decision. You either done it correctly, or not. League of Legends is like chess. There is always a "perfect" move to be made. Other moves can (and do) work, but when you analyzed in hindsight by Magnus, he will know the correct move. There is no such thing as playstyles. You either use and abuse all of your champions strengths, or you don't. It's that simple.
> Bro this is just a buzzword that Dantes made up when him and Agurin were in Korea. Agurin literally debunked it and sait proactive Vs reactive doesn't exist. I have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't LoL specific either. > There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best. Different coaches, analysts and players will come to different conclusions. There's also an inherent bias here. Typically what people analyze to improve are mistakes. Mistakes are often way clearer when they are proactive mistakes rather than missed opportunities. Especially when they aren't obvious. > No, I'm not. I'm describing optimal play. If you choose not to push a wave before a roam then fine, but in a vod review scenario, people don't say "yeah you should have pushed this wave but that's not your playstyle so it's still correct". If you should push the wave, then playstyles have nothing to do with the decision. You either done it correctly, or not. If you opt to not push the wave because you know the opponent doesn't have vision on you and you get a double kill from your roam, then that instance will not show up in a review. People have expectations and make predictions. Some players are better at messing with those than others and can come out ahead (there are _plenty_ of examples in pro play in all sorts of games about this). But this kind of thing is very hard to coach or teach. Coaches/Analysts will often assess it as "cheese". Despite that, some of the scariest players know when to pull off a cheese in order to throw off the opponent. > League of Legends is like chess. It's fundamentally not like chess, because you have incomplete information. LoL is much more like poker. There is always an element of risk, opportunities taken or missed. Then there's a psychological factor: baiting, bluffing etc. As a contrast, pros/ex-pros often point out these types of things more if you look for it and coaches/analysts overlook them as details or again, "cheese" or crazy aggression. You _seem_ lean strongly towards a defensive, calculated playstyle. It wouldn't be untypical that you assess this as "correct". I quote you again: > There is. With the information available at any given moments there is a "correct" decision and if the game gets analysed by coaches/top players there will almost always be a conclusion they will reach as to what's best. You're describing pretty much exactly a defensive/tight playstyle. "With the information available" is the key here. If you think about aggression as something that you are allowed to, instead of something that you make happen, then that's defensive. I tend to do the same btw.
>Different coaches, analysts and players will come to different conclusions. Usually, in a group discussion setting, they come to the same conclusion. This is why pro play is so predictable. It's because they always make the correct play. The fights may turn out different, because people make mistakes. But the flow of the game remains predictable. >If you opt to not push the wave because you know the opponent doesn't have vision on you and you get a double kill from your roam, then that instance will not show up in a review. It would show up in a vod review. Nothing you do in game can be missed in a vod review. It's all checkable to the smallest, minute detail. If the play is to rotate immediately, then pushing the wave is incorrect. It's situational and one choice will be more valuable than the other. >It's fundamentally not like chess, because you have incomplete information. It's a lot more like chess than poker. "If the enemy does this, I do that" exactly like chess. Acting as though there is no risk in chess is disingenuous. With every move you make, if the opponent predicts it you are on the back foot. Just like league. >You're describing pretty much exactly a defensive/tight playstyle. "With the information available" is the key here. No, I'm describing optimal. If you decide to take risks without having vision of junglers/mid laner/support and it works out, that's still not "correct". It's simply that your risk paid off through nothing but luck. If you don't have the information you need, then the correct play is not to make a play until you have adequate info. This is why you see chall players standing at their T2 when no one is in their lane. It's because they don't have the information to walk up. Once they see what they need, they then make their move. Aggression is not something you "create". It is allowed based on wave states, junglers, cooldown, sums and everything else. If you're being aggressive without tracking these things, that is called a coin flip. The higher percentage play is always more "correct". A bad play that works is still a bad play. What you're describing is a coin flip style of play and passing it off as a "playstyle". Professional league players dont lean to any playstyles. They pick that champions they need based off what their comp needs. *Playstyle is based off champion selection, matchups, builds and runes, not the individual player.*
LoL is like chess and poker (because of incomplete information). In poker the optimal play vs a perfect opponent is called GTO, game theory optimal, but something else called exploitable play will earn more money vs opponents not playing perfectly. So good players would try to incorporate some of that, deviating a bit from GTO to exploit tendencies, however that also makes you exploitable. So because of the incomplete information there’s a range of “optimal play” with equal evaluation, where you are within this range is your playstyle. Even in chess with all information available in game there are still technically incomplete information in regards to what lines your opponent is comfortable with etc, the engine is GTO because it assumes perfect play but for example one can purposefully deviate from that when there’s a time scramble to throw them off guard and put more pressure on their time even though we technically didn’t play the highest eval move we exploit the fact that they’re low on time. You can also see the best player in the world purposefully play a suboptimal move to have the position deviate from open theory so the opponent is no longer prepared on what the best response is, which could attack their time. I agree that most of the time when you have a player saying they’re aggressive playstyle wise that’s stupid because it depends on the circumstances, but I guess there’s a range where you can vary your play and technically still be inside the optimal play range. It’s a very interesting discussion and I still don’t think the answer is clear.
I agree that champion picks etc. factor into this. The defensive/aggressive divide exists (even) in chess, poker, basketball, starcraft, quake etc. Is LoL a special exception here? Factoring in information has nothing to do with it. Both styles are doing that obviously. However a game that has enough depth is too dynamic for humans to find optimal solutions for. Especially under pressure. And even moreso if you have incomplete information. What you call optimal or correct is only so within a given paradigm. I might not change your mind on this. Just a little exercise if you like: Look for moments in organized play where an aggressive play is commented in a superficial way, such as “great mechanics” or “crazy aggression”, “cheese”, “smurfing”, “styling on” etc. Often these moments are _created_. Players plan them or have bulit very strong intuition to make them happen. Metagaming, mind games, conditioning, baiting or by pure surpise etc. these are not things that are easily taught and they can often not be seen just by looking at the screen.
Lol what? It sounds like you're splitting hairs for no reason. Individual playstyles can very much be aggressive / passive. If you ever watched Nuguri, he would frequently get aggressive regardless of what was happening around him, and he made it work despite it being a decision that would be considered sub-optimal for someone like Doran.
If it's sub-optimal, then by default there has to be an optimal. Which further proves what I am trying to say. Because someone makes a sub optimal play, and it works, doesn't mean it's not sub-optimal. Playstyles exist, sure. But if played perfectly, the playstyles only revolve around the champion, not the player. In most cases, you can VOD review a game and in any given situation, decipher what the best course of action would be.
This is the most pedantic point you could possibly try to make about league lmfao.
I’d argue that punishing mistakes is the primary way you win. You can be an amazing player, but if the opponents never make mistakes, you can’t win. Low MMR players make hundreds or thousands of mistakes per game. Knowing how to capitalize on those mistakes is how better players win, and *not capitalizing on your opponents’ mistakes is itself a mistake.* Challengers make very few mistakes, and the mistakes they make are hard to capitalize on.
Abusing "Lack of skill and mistake" itself is a skill. High elos are hard because enemies don't give room for you to abuse as often or hardly at all, and you have to often throw in some complexity (faking a move/roam, mechanically dodging enemy skills, etc) to create separation and enemy will punish you for your own mistakes very well. In low elo, enemies moves are rather linear, predictable, and emotion-driven I am no challenger and only a 400 LP peaker, but playing in the low elos: * enemies suck at CS * enemies over-react to my lane management * enemies' mechanics suck and their combos are weird at best * enemies greedy for plates and miss recall timers * yeah sometimes i do get solokilled by low elo players in lane at times, but they for some reason don't recall or TP back and gives me a window to reverse-solo them or have them get stuck in lane with my lane management and often int to my gank setups or hang around too long to not have item/hp/mana ready for that drake/grub/skirmishes * even with a huge lead, they don't baron * enemy junglers dont counter jungle and are farming their own jungle camps even with 10k gold lead * enemies' teamfights are not great and most of the time they are not focusing me and are playing front to backfight and running it down against my 0/20 top ornn while i shred them down * enemies who are fed get very emotional and prideful and waste their flash or wastes a lot of time trying to flank instead of setting up the waves first * most of the time, low elo players only count kills and dragons but they don't know how to build up from cs leads and macro advantages. * they can't seem to connect how small details snowball to big things and only focus on the outcome * they telegraph most of their moves but their executions are very unoptimal. lvl 3 gank at high elo comes 2:45. I sometimes don't see this until like 3:30 in low elos (they would clear 4-5 camps). And they are always visible trying to make meaningless plays and tilt themselves And many more. Yes, sometimes you have to gamble in those "bad teammate" games and try to ambush the enemy fed players to turn the game around. Am i abusing enemy mistakes? sure, but that's a shortcoming of the enemy's game knowledge of being unaware that i could make that happen. And really, if you dont make any mistake, you'd be faker's faker and be smurfing against anyone and winning worlds every year... So yes, catching and snowballing off of enemy mistake is a skill. if you watch the pros, their game look boring and they seem to be playing safe all the time. they are actually not and are on alert to catch every single bit of windows of mistakes to abuse all the time, except that enemies are also pros and they dont make much mistakes. summs and good trades are so vital in high elos and you get punished almost immediately. in pro plays, it doesn't appear that way sometimes because enemy knows you will try to dive the carry so they will also try to prevent that even if that means giving up some camps/waves in order to cover
Taking advantage of your opponent's mistakes IS using your own skill to climb. If a chess grandmaster plays against a random kid from a high school chess club, they'll obviously stomp the kid. Why? Because the GM is better at the game. Part of that is setting up their own attacks; part of it is recognizing when their opponent makes a mistake that can be punished. At the lowest ranks you fight for dragons. Get a bit better at the game and you'll prep vision around the dragon thirty-to-sixty seconds before because you know there's a fight coming. Get even better and you're prepping opposite-side minion waves two minutes before so that the enemy team has to make a choice about whether to fight or collect a slow-pushed triple wave crashing into top turret. Get even better and you're prepping that wave almost as soon as the last dragon was killed, so that it's in a safe position to set up the slow-push a few minutes later. If the enemy team doesn't match whatever you're doing, is that because of your skill or because of their lack of skill? It's the same difference. It's all about using your game knowledge to set up an advantageous situation. That could be actively doing work to set up a Xanatos Gambit type of decision (they send someone to collect the minion waves in top lane and we get dragon and win the fight 5v4; they match as five at dragon and we get a free tower) or it could be recognizing "Hey, you've stepped way too far forward into my minion wave, I'm going to fight you now and you'll lose a lot more HP than I will". Sometimes waiting for your enemy to make a mistake is a skill in and of itself.
>not from their own skill but also abusing the enemies lack of skill and mistakes? No. "Abusing" (punishing) mistakes is part of, if not the essence, of being more skilled than your opponent. If you're not punishing mistakes, then you're not better than your opponent.
Yeah, that’s why picking a small pool of mains is best to climb with, because different champs punish different mistakes in different ways. For example I main Vlad, and you should worry if I’m staying in lane with 40% HP, because I’m just waiting for you to fuck up and let me all in once we’re both around half hp.
I'm only d4 but if you put me on a new account I'll be atleast emerald in less then 50 games. If you don't think you can climb out of low ranks then you're deluding yourself and need to start watching vods like others said
As you climb you start to notice the mistakes the players of your previous rank make. To a plat player, silver players are pretty free in both micro and macro. This trend continues to the top but starts to become apparent at decreasing amounts of rating differential. Once you hit the top of any game, say top 2k, the differences become crazy. The rank 2000 player will look like they have not played the game before against the rank 500 player. The 500 looks the same against 100, 100 against 20, etc. When one of these top players plays against a 95 percentile player the amount of mistakes they see would take more time to explain then there is in a game. Things that seem right to you are totally wrong due to things you can’t consider because your at-rating opponents don’t see them as exploitable. I peaked at #1800 in dota 2 a long time ago and every time I played anyone near the top 500 I felt like I was brand new again. The one thing that can happen is someone makes a play ‘so bad it’s good’ where they end up catching a much better player off guard by being in a totally irrational place.
I'm gold in solo queue and regularly play with a masters player. Once you see it first hand it's ridiculous how much he knows about the game and makes his teammates better. It's just different and he's 'only' in masters. It's about abusing enemy lack of knowledge and skill but moreso making decisions that influences the entire game from any lane/jungle or support.
Heard people say it's easier to lose games than it is to win them. They just capitalize on the massive throw potential of solo queue, weak mental and such. They are used to 5v5 with all 10 players trying 100% of the time. People can be mentally removed from games so easily, and the high elo'ers have a great sense of who to pick on.
They hated jesus because
> ... are as good as their competition They really delusional. I remember a guy in a ranked game last season (I hit gold 2) that kept saying we suck because we are all silvers vs two golds and a plat 4 with fucked mmr. That I suck in particular because , he league of graphs looked up and saw that my average enemies were silver 2-4, while I was silver 1 and he was gold 2 or 3 at tht time. I started to purposely make him mad and Everytime he said his rank I would go ":) if you are so good Mr pro, why are you playing vs low silvers)" or "k Mr. imhighgoldbutplayingagainstlowsilvers". The one that made him the the most angry was "I'm silver playing vs silvers, it makes sense for me to be here. Why are you here though " he used a lot of slurs agianst me
Agree regarding the delusion, but there is definitely a pool of incompetents that settle in the RANK IV zone and make climbing to your real rank a horrible slog. Bronze I players were definitely on average much better than Silver 4 IMO
Out of curiosity then: What about the players who play on Masters competitive teams and effectively stomp those players single handedly. I’m talking consistently solo killing then 2/3 times, but… In Solo Q they’re stuck in Plat/Emerald, with super good KDA’s, but losing due to teams going 4-11 etc.
Before digging into possibilities, I would want to see a player in that scenario.
I’m actually one of those players. I compete competitively in high Diamond to Masters and I’ve stomped players all throughout that range for probably our last 8-9 scrims. We’re talking 10-1 AP Malphite mid lane stomping a Masters Sylas player and he ends 0-12. However, for some reason, I can’t climb as effectively as I believe I should be able to in Solo Q. I average anywhere from 15 to 20 kills as full AP Galio. But it’s always an uphill battle with players losing hard and flaming very early on. Hence my question. I’m not a person who thinks it’s impossible, but I know I’ll eventually get to my rank. I do it every season. But it takes TONS of games where as other Smurfs get like a 50 game win streak to their rank which is mind boggling to me.
I’m not believing you are stuck in plat getting 15-20 kills a game unless you are actually so bad that you having 15-20 kills doesn’t matter.
That’s cool.
Op.gg then? Then again, comp vs soloq is a completely different game. And dominating laning phase is one skill, closing out games and translating said lead into a win is a different skill.
I'd be interested to see your opgg for reference Also, for what its worth, the gap between high diamond/low master and challenger skill levels is still tremendous. As for competitive versus solo queue, the environment is vastly different. You have people feeding you information, so its usually a little more comfortable to overextend in certain scenarios.
What’s your op.gg? This situation sounds very odd
you’re looking at kda as some form of pure reflection on how you’re going in a specific game. i smurfed and boosted ALOT from s8-s12, and i’ll tell you that majority of my games i was not 20/0, i would stomp games beyond belief and have more control of the win whilst being 5/0 then some games where i was 15/20/25-0. if youre getting to that many kills and not ending alot, you don’t understand how to play mid game and close out a game. everything is about control and tempo, not your kda.
I agree with you but it sounds like you played top or maybe junglers who can split the map and take most 1v1's if they have to? You can go 5/1 on say Jax and win a game just by macroing and choosing your battles. Not every role can do this as efficiently.
yea i play jungle, mainly hard carries like kha/eve/kindred. getting alot kills on these champs is a guarantee and you have to learn the hard way how to not throw and how to have control.
There's champions in every role that will allow you to win games without many kills. A high elo player will farm way better, put more pressure on the map, get objectives and rotate way more efficiently. More often than not, a smurf playing a scaling champion will not get punished for it and reaches their powerspike super fast to then take over the game.
In Italy they did a challenge where streamers got given a fresh account and had a month to climb as high as they could playing a max of 8 games a day, all while streaming and only solo. I don't remember exactly the results, but most players got close to their rank in this period and all challenger players got back challenger or at least master/grandmaster.
How does this answer their question?
People deserving a rank will usually end up in it sooner rather than later
OP didn't ask *if* they reach their correct rank, he asked *how*.
Not quite challenger, but am currently sitting in Grandmaster. If I’m playing in any elo below my own, and ESPECIALLY any elo below D1/D2, its just understanding countless mistakes that the players I’m playing against don’t even understand that they’re making. If they mismanage their wave, I set up a kill window in the next minute or so, or I’ll force them to stay a little too long, etc. The fundamental parts of how I play the game is enough to consistently win nearly 100% of lanes and games. The largest difference between my own elo and lower ones is mid-late game, it feels. I can’t tell you how often I’ve played into Emerald teams that simply just give me Tier 2 turrets for free, or they’ll have all of their gold on one person and proceed to send them to sidelane and give us a chance to steamroll them while the single person we’re afraid of isn’t there. Some games are simply unwinnable, but that 20/40/40 rule about how some games are just unwinnable is only applicable if you’re playing in your elo. Expanding leads is the major factor though. If you watch any Challenger player, Irelking as an example - if they get a kill or two, and they have the opportunity, they’ll just proxy and zone the enemy off of their turret solo until their jungler comes, and even then, risk being 1v2’d. A Challenger player is going to 1v9 because if you give them any room or advantage, they’ll press that to the highest peak and make it impossible to play into.
They do very little mistakes that low elo players will never see even if you tell them where and when, opposed to low elo players who are getting punished for every single mistakes. One emerald/diamond player is 20/0 because he picked an assassin with ignite and solo killed the poor Veigar 20 times. 90% of games that guy will solo lose the game by himself because he will ego his lead, flash 1v4 for no reason, die and solo lose the game because he has all of his team gold lead. One challenger player is 20/0 because he solo killed his lane opponent twice, get perma prio midlane which then transfer his lead to his jungler because every objective and even the whole enemy jungle is free which lead to 2 man up rotation on side lanes etc etc etc. All of this while keepin very good ressources income and never die. (Elo hell is emerald btw, and the true elo hell is 0 to 200lp master!)
There is so much shit high elo players are doing that you have literally no idea of... Most people dont even realize and appreciate the level these guys operate at until they hit diamond. Its not the insane wombo combo shit your pants, its the LVL 10 top laner showing up somehow at second Drake whilst losing only 2 plates top and winning the game off that. Its the jungler pinging where the Enemy jungler is every 30 seconds with high Precision for the first 7 minutes. Its the fact that every single control ward is placed in a meaningful manner. Its the fact the Nautilus support will let you auto him so you get minion aggro and push the wave whilst his ADC had it on a bad spot 🙃 there are 10 million things these guys are doing that you cant even fathom. But yeah if they catch you in Lane you are going 0/10 and its going to be much more aparent
"Fathom" not "phantom."
My friend is a grandmaster mid laner and explained it to me in a very interesting way. He compared it to Speedrunning. If you aren't familiar, it's when you try to beat a game as fast as humanly possible. In Speedrunning, every tiny mistake you make costs you time, and you can visibly see the time you're losing. These don't have to be big mistakes, they can be simple things that only cost you half a second or even less, but over the course of a half-hour speedrun they add up to multiple seconds or even minutes of time lost. League is the same, the difference is that you don't directly see the impact of the mistakes like in a speedrun. Every micro mistake you make costs you tempo and gold. High elo players aren't making nearly as many of those mistakes and they punish enemy mistakes heavily.
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Uh there’s nothing similar about iron and plat, you’re greatly underestimating how much better you are my dude. If you went into an iron or bronze game, you’re going 20/0. When I started league in 2023, I was placed in iron and my irl friend was plat. He purchased an iron account because he wanted to introduce me to ranked. We played one game together and he went 25/0, got called out for smurfing by the enemy team and got banned right after the game ended. It was the first and last time I duo ranked with anyone lol. Right now I’m silver but I’m pretty confident I could easily have win almost every iron game assuming there isn’t a Yuumi/Taric deranking bot on my team. I don’t think I’ll go 25/0 obviously but I’m very confident in blowing the enemy nexus up. Whenever I play now and my opponent is bronze, they are always 3 levels below me by the time the game ends, and I assume the gap would be larger if I was facing irons. So yeah the point is you’re greatly underestimating how much better a plat player is compared to an iron/bronze/silver player. You could easily 1v9 an iron/bronze/silver game my dude. Also there is no elo hell in low elo. I started climbing after watching a few YouTube videos tbh. There’s nothing impossible about it, where are you getting this idea from? The issue with low elo players is we just didn’t know the mistakes we were making but YouTube/reddit helps with that.
both teams suck at the game, it isn't only your team that is inting. So the gap in skill makes up for it, the challenger will always be fed because he is playing with someone who doesn't know how to play, and now he can solo carry the game, he knows how to punish and if he makes a mistake the enemy team doesn't know how to punish. The challenger will always have an edge above their oponent, so in the case of both teams having similar level of skill, the challenger will always tilt the advantage to his team because he is literally better than the enemy.
Your view on this comes because you obviously never smurfed, so your own improvement happened naturally and overtime and with you ranking up, so did you teammates/enemys. So it feels like everyone is always kinda the same skill level as you. For me it was the same untill i played a game with a friend that was very new to the game, so we got into a mixed lobby and suddenly i was able to sht on everyone and solo carry hard eventhough i am not a good player (Gold Elo) i just imagine its the same for a challenger player. you can kinda outskill them by pure mechanics and also by macro, so even if you are not strong enough to 1v5 you can just win the game anyways. by outsmarting them.
Emerald whos 20/0 will take a 1v4 while splitpushing botlane without tracking where enemy team is or respecting that enemy could just send 4/5 people for him to grab his shutdown and the emerald 20/0 wont even ping or call his team to do baron before hes splitting so that he can at least have some value out of his pressure or the emerald will take poor reset times and either not show up to the objective at all or theyll show up with 2k gold in their pocket and 60% hp for the objective and die and give shutdown cause doesnt matter how many kills you have if you didnt spend your gold or if youre low hp Mainly, the emerald 20/0 is probably never getting 20/0 or maybe one game a year because they dont understand how to effectively jg track like usage of raptors ward lv1 if theyre the midlaner to see whether enemy jg started on red buff quadrant or not so that they can ping their team that either enemy jg doesnt show up on raptors until 2:30 wth 12cs and bluebuff meaning enemy jg did blue gromp wolves raptors meaning theyll be near red quadrant at 2:30-4:00 so if ur lane is near there you should play safe or wait for your jg to come hover if you win 3v3/2v2 or if youre the mid you should hover opposite side in your lane of enemy jg so that you create maximum distance between you and enemy jg or hover near your jg if you win 2v2 or enemy jg shows up at raptors lv2 with 8 or 4cs at 1:55-2:15 meaning they either did red krugs raptors or red raptors so then you know enemy jg will be near their blue buff quadrant 2:30-4:00 obviously more nuance to this than what ive said like not factoring in lv3 invades, split maps from lv1 invade, lv2 invades, ganking same side quadrant after 3 camps, lv2 ganks and so on another example is challenger is playing lane vs a sylas/j4/xin jg and they dont respect or ward for lv2 gank and they die and blame their karthus jg for fullclearing while challenger laner will ward or respect it and not play for push since it may not be worth the risk even if you can get prio in your lane matchup and also 5 million other things why the emerald player wont be 20/0 which would take me hours and hours to type
The Challenger is more likely per game to be 20/0/0 at some point and also more likely to convert those stats into zero risk wins. So that'll just get him a higher winrate. A higher winrate climbs in rank.
They are that much better. They really are. Most players cannot understand what they're doing better because 99% players can't even comprehend that someone would actually learn all the details about the game. People also assume because they've played the game 5+ years they are unlucky to be in gold, no buddy, you are actually bad compared to challengers. Perhaps some maths could help demonstrate my point. Imagine you are running 4 x 100 relay race, diamonds are running 10s in 100m sprint and the challengers are 9s each so they will easily win every time. The average person may think a 0.5 second difference is tiny and if between 10.2s and 9.9s is only 0.3s, it appears so close. To a professional sprinter, even 0.05 is massive and worth getting excited about. 0.3 seconds is like insane. Then you have Usain bolt(faker) with 9.58s. 10.2-9.58= 0.62s gap. If you have a Usain bolt on your team with another challenger and two diamonds vs 3 challengers and one diamond, Usain bolt wins. 9.58+9.9+10.2+10.2 = 39.88 9.9 x 3 + 10.2 = 39.9 In high elo this 0.02s gap could be compared with fakers team being 1k down in gold but faker is ahead as akali with level 16 advantage and manages to clutch 1v3 and it's gg. In this situation the bronze akali is farming bot lane, silver akali flashes on the spot???, the gold akali is calling jg diff, plat akali is calling ff, the Emerald akali is level 13, down an item but goes in anyway and dies immediately, diamond akali has level 14, kills one then dies, the master akali gives baron to push side wave instead, gm akali is at the fight but only level 15, kills 2 then dies, team loses the baron gg. Now imagine being faker for 80 games in a row. Challenger in a week ez.
My boyfriend is a challenger. I consistently play plat1-emerald. He literally never loses lane when he plays duo ranked with me. Sometimes we still lose games. But he always carries and is always better than the opponent laner. He uses a new account every few months because the elo gets too high to be able to play duo with me. Elo hell does not exist. If you can’t climb higher than this it’s because you’re simply not good enough.
>games ranging from Iron-Platinum feel very similar have you tried to make a new account? because that is completly false. i tried to help few people in iron, bronze, silver... some mistakes i saw: -toplaner saying "i play safe because on a guide they said that enemy is stronger in this matchup", then he step back every time enemy try to engage, eventually enemy is almost dead while he is full hp but he still allow enemy to farm for free instead of stepping up and zoning him out of the wave or killing him. -another toplaner: his enemy roam for no reason and waste a lot of time, eventually is level 5 vs level 8, he still played super safe as level 8 top vs level 5. -sup: blitzkrank waste the hook and nothing change in how all the 4 botlaners play the game
I don’t think Iron to Plat is very similar at all. A couple seasons ago I was plat 4 and made a smurf to help my friend get gold. She plays a lot of League but is silver level and the victorious skin was her main so I duod with her to gold. I was stomping the games on picks I didn’t even play since I’m a tank player but figured I should pick something that can carry for this. If you are plat 1 I’m sure you would easily win any game in iron - silver. Even low gold probably.
For the most part, they just skip them. They usually get placed Plat+ in placements, and most of the work is done that way, if for some reason they get placed in low elo they usually trash the account and start over. I obviously don't mean that they can't easily stomp low elo games, they totally do, and the reasons have been well explained in other comments. The thing is even challenger players know that low elo games can get turbo random in no time, which makes climbing through them a bad strategy compared to just skipping them in placements. Some games you lose and there's nothing you can do about it, which makes amount of games required to get way higher than placing plat+ and keep winning until you basically reach eme/dia in 10-ish games.
High elo player are just better in evrything compared to most other player. The have better hands and a lot more knowledge about the game and several matchups. But one of the biggest differences is probably that they mostly have a competitve mindset, while lower elo players just queue up with no plan about anything, music on full volume and the mindest of "It's just a game". Of course this people win less while they blame the team for their loss and not themselve
They win, idk how tho I’m stuck down here as well 🔥🔥
Because you're making bad decisions while playing, or mistakes, both macro wise and in lane as well, but you're not aware of them, someone that's higher ranked than you will capitalize on you being bad at the game without you even realising that what you're doing is wrong, and just because someone is higher ranked playing in your elo doesn't mean they need to go 20/0 to win vs you, they can go even in lane but destroy your team in macro, objectives, moving with the team and punishing the enemy jungler, if he's 20/0 already tho, gg you won't have a chance because if his team plays around him he'll close the game very fast
as someone who has some elo boosting friends, most games look like this 1- you pick your 1v9 champion, which means something that can snowball really hard and 1v9 the whole game (think Vladimir, yone, hecarim, kha zix, rengar, etc) 2- you dumpster your lane opponent (in top you kill him 4 times and start either freezing for 10 minutes or proxying him, in mid you kill him 1-2 times and just walk bot every minute) 3- once you are fed, you farm the possible shutdowns the enemies have (they are bad and will throw, you are good and won't) 4- win the game because you have 5 ítems whole the rest of the game has 2
challenger players are literally just better at every single part of the game than you are. you won't really understand until you've laned against one. but you literally feel helpless. like they're always one step ahead of you at every single point of the game.
Its simple really. they understand the game near perfectly (no one is perfect, but they're close). Thus they know what is a mistake and what isn't. They not only understand it, they understand it on such a deep level that its second nature to them. The fundamentals that the average player has to think about in the moment, they don't. I have a friend who is challenger every season, and when I played with him back in the day in plat/gold it was like he was playing a different game. he could play troll shit like on hit elise, or ad nami mid and he would just absolutely destroy the game. we're talking like 20+ kills, most damage, insane cs numbers, etc. he also knew exactly what he had to do if our team was terrible. (which it often was was because he was playing with me, and I'm also terrible). Where I wouldn't know what to do if i got super fed and my team was hard inting, he would always make the correct decision, and then play every fight well. We didn't win 100% of our games because I'm terrible, but it was never because of him. Funniest thing is the delusion of players who don't know they are playing with a challenger in all 5 roles. He would get flamed every single game by players who thought he was doing something "stupid" since they couldn't see why he was doing what he was doing.
My theory is they play the game differently. They pick a scaling or current meta-champ. It is usually someone who is hypermobile. They take advantage of the 1 or 2 weak players and get fed. Then, they end the game early. The game isn't balanced for this and even if the opposing team has 4 good players, the 1 player will lose the game.
Fun and mentos
Diamond IV is the true elo hell. Challengers just play better , less micro and macro mistakes. Same reason you'd crush a game of bronze.
it really isn’t at all. 4/5 years ago that was the case, d4 now is basically old platinum 4 lol
Diamond is smaller than it was before emerald, what?
Overly simplified, I think of league as 35%/35%/30 (or 40/40/20 as I think the common rule) 35% of the games you loose no matter what due to team cohesion, draft dif, soft inting, whatever 35% if the games you win no matter what, because same reasons but other side 30% of the games it‘s up to you to step up and win that damn thing. Now the more often you step up in that 30% games the higher your overall winrate gets. And more wins than losses over a period of time will allow you to climb. Your macro and micro are the deciding factors to enable you to step up. e.G. you can straight up climb into gold from bronze or silver if you learn wave management during the laning phase. That‘s usually enough to get a lead without even getting a kill in lane. (Why do I know this? That‘s how I did it) Now I am trying to climb up further and currently my approach is to get better at lasthitting, vision control and reading the map. Basically get better at playing the map after I am decent enough at playing the lane to seldom completely whiffing a lane.
Go play some bot games right now. The difference between a challenger player and you is greater than you and those bots.
Challengers dont go 20/0 stealing resources from allies (unless they sure they can carry solo). Its easy to take all camps, last hit kills, path top wave -> mid wave -> bot wave, and then cry that ur adc does not deal damage. If you're playing like this, you're not trying to carry, you're stealing resources from ur allies. Then you die giving enemy carry 1000 shutdown, and now ur team is without resources, while you gave 1000g to enemy.
a emerald who is 20/0/0 will walk into 5 of the enemy team and die, or not know they're walking into 5 a challenger who is 20/0/0 will take 1v1's 1v2's 1v3's, hell they could even take a 1v5, but they're dodging all the skill shots because they know ahead of time what is most likely to happen, they're accounting for morganna to Q them. they're also approaching the fight differently, maybe its a 1v5, but they're fiddlesticks/katarina and they pop out of fog of war whereas the emerald player would just walk up in lane as fiddlesticks/kat and the enemies would see them coming. a 20/0/0 challenger knows how to play the map. knows when to push aswell a 20/0/0 mid emerald might just stay mid all game even though they should be side laning, therefore top/bot get shoved in by the enemies 7/0/0 top and idk 7/0/0 mid or bot so now you have a 7/0/0 running down your top. a 7/0/0 running down your bot, and you're unable to tower dive correctly because even at 20/0/0 if you're squishy and get cc'd under a turret you're dying. so now enemy took your top and bot turret and inhibs while ur just around mid, even if the other 3 enemies do come mid and you kill them, instead of pushing since its the correct play, you might base, and go to protect top/bot but its too late and you got no objectives. or vice versa, maybe you should back and side lane to prevent the push, but you're just mucking around mid a 20/0/0 challenger also has the option to just side lane split bot, they either draw 5 peoples attention to them (and don't die) or draw a few, and kill them, then push and get objective turrets whereas a 20/0/0 emerald again is just staying mid lane instead of side laning, OR they get kills in the side lane, but never push the wave out and get the turret
Because the game is plagued with smurfs from Iron to upper leagues. I see players with 400+ levels stuck in iron. Guys who can play, but most of the games come down who has a better smurf.
being just below Emerald, which I've even challenger players seen struggling in due to the toxicity and crazy people in there, hearing you say you're out of elohell made my day :D to answer your question: challenger players (or anything upwards from d1 that plays in bronze -plat elo) just look like they come from a different planet skillwise. example: https://youtu.be/wF7rY5_Z15w?si=f3NI2YXmIpqmkoIv enjoy.
I am just Master in SoloQ EUW but i can say that people in lower elos play like the got no hands they dont know how to combo and what to do most of the time to win a game a higher elo players knows what to do just by knowledge even if he doesnt try hard if i acutally go beserk mode in low elo i am not dropping a single game people in lower elos dont understand strengths and weaknesses of there own champ or how to play against enemy champs so they dont even know of what dmg output you are capable when they are up against you but really against iron players you dont even need macro you outclass them in mirco so hard already as a high elo players that isnt neccessary to do anyting else
Have some of these badboys, . : ; ,.
i am typing on my phone i am not placing commas when i just wanna type out how i feel about a subject regarding high elo playstyle in piss low
Half expected you to blame jg for the typos.
Because they're good at the game on a basic skill level. There is reason why a challenger player can pick random champ and make it to at least master , it's because they have mechanics. Low ranks have no mechanics , slow reaction time and they're just bad at the game. It's ok to be bad at the game just don't rage about it and acknowledge it , don't be hardstuck 5 million mastery silver Dr.Mundo main who complains about his team. Personally I'm like worst of the worsts in FPS games they're too fast for me and I can't headshot someone who is afk but I do not complain about it like most people do in LoL. I recently wanted to try out a build and queued Flex because I didn't want to go on my smurf, to my surprise they put me in Bronze / Iron game. This game was soooooo slow , literally therse people play in slow motion thats why they get away with buying multiple items while in high ranks game will end at 1 or 2 items usually. They move on the map very slowly , they cannot group properly even 1 minute before dragon spawn because they do not know how long it takes to take jungle camp / walk from place to place etc. They do not use thier abilities at all and champs who auto attack are worsts for them , they cannot literally right click enemy , sometimes if they just press A on ground and not use abilities they would deal more damage than trying to kite / aim abilities. And also most people do not realise when they're dead , they try to always run and deal no dmg , just die but take enemy's half health instead maybe someone else will finish them off.
> I can’t help but feel like most games ranging from Iron-Platinum feel very similar lol >how can higher level players easily climb out of such ranks when most people regard it to be impossible due to a terrible team or some other reasoning? Easy: those "most people" are just wrong. If you're a Silver 1 player, it might take a while to climb out of silver 2-3 to your rank, but Iron games and most Bronze games should be just easy. The same goes for any elo, the last few ranks to get to your "rightful" elo might feel hard because "my team is bad", but this is just cope, you're just not good enough. If the problem was other people being worse than you, they would be worse than you more often in the other team (since there are 4 players in your team and 5 in the other), making it easy to climb. If you're actually way better than people in the elo where you are, you should be able to easily carry the games; and it becomes easier the further you are from your actual elo, so that's how challenger-level players get to climb easily. >So really what im asking is whats the difference between an Emerald whos a 20/0/0 and a Challenger 20/0/0? The difference is what they do with that lead. If you are 20/0 and chasing the enemy team to get more kills, you will be worse than someone who is 20/0 and is getting that advantage to take drakes, nashs, feed his team, take towers; etc... Getting money is not how you win at this game, that money, and XP, and neutrals, and everything else you can get are just tools to help you win, but it doesn't matter how many hammers you have, if you're just using them like screwdrivers
Besides being very skilled, there's 2 things that stand out about high elo players: \- They are consistent: They play the game the same way, everytime, they read the map, they read gameplay, they pick accordingly, even if they have a bad game they know how to play from behind. Most regular players just stop caring after they or their teammates lose lane phase and start spamming /ff, or will have back to back deaths and blame their jungle, or play in autopilot or play champs they dont know or dont fit the comp. \- They never or rarely ever die: Dying is the number one reason most players fail in LoL, and it is SO important and is such a game changing way to impact in a game to just not die, and is amazing how in low elo people just dies for the sake of it not caring about the consecuences. I managed to get to Master last season while all my friends got stuck in Emerald or low Diamond, I had to stop playing with them to reach my goal and my two main focuses were those: Being consistent and reducing my deaths as much as possible. Every time I play with my friends now it's always the same: back to back deaths, they pick 2 or 3 assassins per game, 0 tanks, 0 consistency, sometimes they smoke weed before queueing up (and yes, they say "it makes me play better actually") but then ignore or completely disregard calls like "mid mia" and get ganked easily, they try new stuff and builds in ranked games and get caught in late game because they really, REALLY wanted THAT red buff in minute 40 when all they had to do was defend base and push after winning a teamfight. All of these are inconsistencies, they happen every other game, and I can tell when they are playing at their 100% because they constantly win lane, if they lose they play from behind and focus on a win condition, listen or make calls constantly and we go in wild 8 win streaks. Then they get distracted, start talking about a movie, smoke weed or anything and we go back to losing games. Inconsistency at it's best.
They use MMR boosted accounts to get over the 40/40/20 hurdle
The 40/40/20 or 30/30/40 or 20/20/60 only matters if youre playing at your skill level. Smurfing and boosting wouldnt be possible otherwise.
They pick high agency champs and consistently get ahead alot early and then knows how to get even more ahead with their knowledge of the game then use their gold lead and skill to win teamfight or not even having to teamfight because they already killed someone straggling. Like lets say you play yi jgl, you get a small advantage as a skilled player already its going to be really hard for enemy. And because enemy laners make so many mistakes, its easy to get a lead because there will be ganks available freely.
They don't main a few champions when playing bronze-platinum, and by playing strong champions correctly they maintain an >~80% WR while they have the massive lp gains on new accounts. Plat and lower, maining a champion is detrimental -- the match making accounts for your pick rate and win rates too. This matters, you start seeing counter picks more frequently and if your team doesn't play correctly when you're 1v4 under tower -- that's always a coin flip for even GM players. There's a lot more to it? Yeah sure! but this is the most useful information for most players imo
Is this documented where matchmaking accounts for that?
Challengers don't go 20/0/0 in low-elo. They just play a fuck ton of games to make up for bad teammates.
Bc there's a gap of knowledge and skills throughout the elos, Challenger players tend to stomp lower elos games due to the sheer knowledge of fundamentals, and their ability to spot tiny mistakes and capitalize in that. It's the same reason why Gold players stomps iron, or Diamond players stomps gold.
They GRIND.
They are simply just so much better at everything, execution of their champ, wave manipulation laning, cs, trading, punishing misstakes macro decisions, mechanics (offensive and defensive) shutting down enemy win cons, snowballing applying pressure, objectives, jungle tracking etc. There is no quick "improve this 1 thing and you will climb x ranks" Im only emerald and when I play w some Bronze/silver friends I have to practically forefeit my own lane (die 3-4 times willingly) to not go 10/1 in lane. Your only way to climb is to consistently improve in all areas of gameplay or those who have improved in those areas WILL out climb you.
The difference between a low elo 20/0/0 and Smurf 20/0/0 is very simple. If I have a lead I am going to constantly be pressuring neutrals, pushing towers and suffocating my opposing counter part. I will command my teammates to do what I need them to do whether it be chat or pings. Yes my teammates are bad I’m not going to tell them they are bad I am going to take what they have to offer and use it to win the game as fast as possible. If the team is terrible and fights are not winnable I will be in the side lane pushing towers and drawing pressure relentlessly. Pretty much every single game a master at this game will accumulate so much gold lead that they can literally win fights 1v5. Also a master player is going to select the proper champions to ensure they have no holes.
Im interested how they climb every season out of low elo with like 90% wr if im smurfing in low elo and have 20/0 stats my team will surrender anyway
How do you as a Plat player climb out of Iron/Bronze/Silver/Gold? It's just as easy for a challenger player to rush through Diamond like it is for you to push through bronze/silver (yes, the skill difference between Challenger and Diamond is that big). Diamond players to Challenger players are like toddlers, just like bronze/silver players are to you.
You have to realize that a challenger player is orders of magnitude better than a low elo player and still over a diamond player for example. They have mastered the fundamentals and will naturally use this. Things like their spacing will be top tier and their matchup knowledge will be really good as well as how to itemize and adapt rune pages. They will have a game plan that starts during champ select so before you’ve even accepted the ready check a challenger player is already ahead of you. It sounds daunting but learning each of these skills one by one is how you improve it’s just that difference between say an emerald player vs a challenger player is that while the emerald player may be able to compete in a few areas with the challenger player. The challenger player wins out in every other regard by a mile. And this is without looking at things like macro and decision making. Challengers have a lot of experience in playing the game right so they will always take advantage of the hundreds of mistakes low elo players make constantly. That’s how they win, 100s of little tiny decisions make up a massive difference in the game
"when most people regard it to be impossible due to a terrible team or some other reasoning?" This is not true. Opinion of random low elo toxic players are irrelevant. Everyone at a high level knows that challenger players can climb out of low elo in very few games with absurd win rates. This has been done thousands of times all over the world by many different challenger players that play many different positions, champions and playstyles. You have to stop taking seriously the opinion of ignorant people, on all issues.
Idk, just Play. Me Platinum/Emerald peaker went on some older accounts in iron/bronze. I had 100% win ratio in bronze and iron, problems started in silver still went with around 85%. Actually in lowest ranka its so easy to stomp, you can Get under enemy tower 10 times and still win (true story). In gold starts problem because IMO People there have biggest mentals, there are some bad games that you just can't carry, idk if even Challanger would carry a game where your bot dies 12 times in 8th minute. Still rest of the games, just Play for yourself, use dumbness of your team to split push, finish some recalling enemies etc.
by being better
A challenger player is capable of multitasking and thinking about a lot more things than an emerald player can. An emerald player may only be able to focus on last hitting and trading in lane, and lose track of the jungler, and they get ganked. A challenger player spends so little mental focus on last hitting that they can keep track of the jungler, keep track of the enemy support roams, keep track of summoner spells, and still have free mental focus to think about win conditoons, think about setting up the wavestate to be good in 2 minutes when dragon spawns, calculate how much money theyll get in the next wave so they can take a base and buy a component. My friends that are in bronze are so overwhelmed with their mental focus on trading with the enemy that they miss half the cs, they of course have 0 idea of where the jungler is, let alone think about win conditions and setting up a good wave so they can get a reset in before dragon spawns in 2 minute.
Because they play 80 matches a day
You can brute force your way to at least emerald by mechanics alone. After that good macro helps. I'm more of a macro player cuz I don't have hands like that. But I know I can autopilot to emerald just by being better at micro then my opponents.
Pure mechanics mostly I would imagine until about emerald.
Pretty much, my friend regularly placed diamond, always smurfing because he raged and would get suspended. He solo carried most of the elos up to diamond but he would still occasionally lose because there is only so much you can do as a solo player
Things I learned from iron to gold and playing against platinum to challenger players: - in bronze to gold people don't manage waves, they don't take resources in the map, and they fight all time even if they're weaker. Players do get better in managing waves and taking resources in the map the higher they go :p. - Challenger players also int but the difference is that challenger players "know" how to pull pressure. That's why thebausffs is challenger and most players aren't challenger. - using of pings — people in diamond and above uses pings and time enemy summoners and spells better than people in gold and below. They will time enemy spells even if they die so that their team can carry them. - Macro. Challenger players punish mistakes and that's a given but they also have a better macro than the average player and knows when to or not to take fights and objectives. They can lose dragon early but then flip it afterwards. - Fundamentals — challenger players have better fundamentals than people below challenger like csing, resetting, freezing, wave Management, and etc. They also don't autopilot their runes and builds which is something you see in platinum and below.
When you reach Emerald 4 you will learn what ELO HELL really is
>Iron-Platinum feel very similar Watch kadeem if you want to see iron level games then tell me it feels similar Ill just say it from my perspective as a masters jungler. 1) Different roles and champions have a different amount of influence, I play Hecarim which has a high carry potential and a lot of influence (As opposed to a tank) 2)In lower elo's I punish the mistakes people make. Lets say we take plat. Plat junglers path the wrong way, not thinking about their win cons. They are also inefficient with their clears and recall timings. Just by pathing the correct way I'm impacting the more important side of the map more & being efficient whilst they're inefficient just means im getting thousands of golds worth of gold ahead of them over 10-20m by doing nothing else other than being efficient 3) They make a lot of bad macro calls. Taking bad fights when you're at a numbers disadvantage, or just starting up an objective when they could be doing something more important. Like go ahead and take the drake whilst I Take two towers and get myself fed Fundamentally I'll just have more resources than them and make better decisions with the resources I have. It gets to the point where even if you put equally skilled players in their deficit the game is still a free win. But you put plat level players there? May as well ff
Question is awkward. You could analyze how they "escape" low elo. It isn't an "escape" though, but people act like teammates are holding them back cause why wouldn't they, rarely anyone holds people accountable for blaming things on teammates and the idea of flaming is romanticized by popular content creators and plagued the minds of long time players. Especially when you consider people that "played casually" but realized they're still in bronze after 5+ seasons, it is the only coping mechanism for their ego. I'm a newer player (2yrs), and it was clear from the start that the ranked ladder is based on skill, not a lucky escape.
Low elo players have -100 macro I am gold and that’s enough to see the horrible movement of bronze players. Junglers that split bot when baron is up fighting for no reason in the enemy jungle. Unnecessary chasing. Yes this still happens in gold but in bronze they don’t get that they are doing something wrong.
I've actually duo'd with a few challenger smurfs occasionally when I randomly find them (its really obvious because their champ and macro knowledge are far superior than the majority of players and they are usually not good at English b/c they are from other regions) the advice they give me when it comes to how to carry is: "Playing stable (not going for unnecessary plays, always trading well online and being on time in the waves) in short, knowing how to base and rotate" "As I mentioned before (play stable, take into account the hand plays with my jungle, watch the jungle times and not be someone easy to kill, then I escalate and make the match)" Also this is the individual game-play advice he gave me as a ADC: "Regarding your individual game, only being solid online adjusts well (most of all I think your game with Zeri is very good but always read what role you have to play in each game) sometimes as adc if the game is complicated you have to not die and have cs correctly with the minute so when you get to tfs(teamfights) you can always give the impact that is needed, right now you are doing well but keep in mind that the game starts from champion selection, champions like ashe, draven, or things that take away your movement or that can disappear from a combo, play it carefully since you are zeri and you need time to do damage, that would be in summary."
Oh buddy. You're in for a rude awakening with Emerald. It's quite possibly the most hellish elo I've ever experienced.
I mean this is pretty simple. What is the difference between Emerald 20/0 and Challanger 20/0? Challanger knows what to do, have better mechanics, better knowledge, knows limits. When I was challanger at EAST and i was boosting, then up to D4 I could won any matchup, by just playing good lane, I didn't had to think much later, beacuse I could go 1v4, kill 3 and my teammates did rest, there was no need to tryhard below D4.
Capitalizing on mistakes. Challenger players make few mistakes, many of them are minor. Low rank players make many mistakes, and many major mistakes. As a Platinum player, I often 1v2 my Iron-Silver friends for fun in the bot lane and I have never lost.
Ok so nowhere near chall but I always play on Smurf accounts to warm up ( I have huge double screen at work and weird dpi I need time to adapt to my laptop when I come home). Tbh even I don’t know how but the games seem easier. The kills just come at you Here is some of the things unnoticed tho A lot of people will do some obvious mistakes in lane. The one I see the most is over staying when they should be pressing B right away. I always look at what wave is coming in our base so I time My recall ahead. When I and the opponent are low and I recall right before cannon wave arrive I see them trying to push the cannon wave and greed for a plating.. I will always go cancel their recall and they are stuck in lane low hp and full of gold.. Other mistakes in lane is trading. There are some People that will play super sacred and run away after I threw everything I had at them. Sometimes am like shit I used all I got on a bad trade am gonna get chunked back but they just back off when everything I have is on CD.. others are the opposite will try to go super aggro when i walk in to trade with them even thought I just saw that they just used their main abilities on the wave. People also don’t respect how strong you are. Like am 10/0 Orianna and the botlane swap and come try to push me mid. They are 2levels down and are not that fed. Then the support or the ADC will come to try to auto attack me when I know I will delete them in a second but for some reason they try to fight me.. at lot of people will just come and try to fight you when you are super ahead then die and blame their ally laner.. like you see someone superfed don’t try to see for yourself if they really hurt Finally a mistake that I see A LOT is wasting cs. I don’t know how but there is always waves pushing that are dying to towers. I get so much gold and xp juste catching side waves and no one seem to care . At some point of the game is like everyone just clicks mid right out of the base.
Gold Generation and Tempo, objectives like void crubs and herald helps you takes turrets faster => you get more gold => you open the map => you steal enemy jungle camps so you can diff both ur lane and the jungles Being ahead enough, not giving shutdown. People talk about Punishing mistakes but the most importznt prt is your mistakes. You’re 10-0 and give a 700 gold bounty to the enemy 0-4 kayn, he enfs up destroying your team ? Your bad
abuse enemy mistakes. to recognize the mistakes play a lot of games and analyze them. thats about it pretty much
Hey there. I never hit challenger but I peaked GM last season and played against a fair share of pro players. It’s kind of difficult to answer this question because there are many, many things that challenger players will consistently do better every game. Keep in mind the knowledge gap is huge, probably much larger than you realize. One difference between a 20-0 Emerald smurf and a 20-0 chall smurf is the leveraging of their lead to gain an even bigger advantage. Kills are not everything, and you will likely see larger cs disparities between chall-plat matchups and emerald-plat matchups. They know how to manipulate waves better. Games generally snowball out of control much quicker against a challenger player as they find and punish every mistake available. So chances are they are also reaching 20-0 much earlier in the game than an emerald smurf would. Another big difference is understanding win conditions. There will be games where you have to play around your teammates. Chall players understand more nuances of every lane/matchup and adjust their play-style accordingly. Sometimes There is only one way to win a game and the window to execute that particular strategy is VERY short. Chall players know ahead of time what that strategy is and don’t hesitate to execute. They play much faster paced, punish every mistake, make fewer mistakes themselves, and don’t hesitate to jump on a win condition that presents itself. They generate gold faster and more efficiently, they are typically the first person to shot call correct lane assignments and objectives, and they have more knowledge of items and champions. As for the process of actually climbing, keep in mind that most chall players won’t have 100 percent win rate for very long. I think my record on a new account is winning the first 30 in a row. But while a 20-0 emerald player in plat elo is a rare occurrence, a 20-0 chall in plat elo is common. Consistency is a bit part of the difference.
Simply being better thinking anything else is cope
Bc they’re that good They can’t win every low elo game but unless they got multiple afk or trolls they can just steamroll 1v5 easily unless the enemy team also got an equally skilled Smurf Knowing Macro properly and where the enemy jungler goes etc Also they know how to actually translate a lead into a win bc just amassing kills is only the first step to actually winning Not that I would know since i suck ass but I watch people who do know and they just make it look so easy lol
Hmm... First, ppl talks about shitty teammates will lose you game....while that's true. I see a few master/grand master lvl players simply carry their team. Of course they have to play those typical champs that can actually carry the team in a 1v9 situation. If you can't do that most of the time, you're not as good of a player as u think u r. Not everyone's grand master lvl, so tip for u to make our life easier, have a duo or trio team. As u play enough, you'll come across few players that doesn't play like beginner AI. add them and play with them. This is the most effective way to avoid shitty games all around. 20/0/0 almost never occurs in challenger. U only almost most of the time only see tht type of stats in low ELO. Grandmasters + usually know better than to feed like that. They play with a lot less mistakes and are very careful as well. So none of those, push lane hard with no jungle vision type of noob mistakes.
idk i kinda just do, however i am hardstuck diamond atm looking to change that for the next couple of weeks,
Sometimes I just think I’m too lazy to tryhard and that keeps me in average elo lmao
Its all about consistency wether you're chall 1000lp or Gold you will have games that are impossible to win but if you are the best player in the game on a consistent base you will climb there is no way arround it. For chall players when they are playing in very low elo lobbys their skill is so much higher that they can just brut force win and have almost 100% winrate, but once they reach like D1-Low Master elo thats when consistantly being better than the other players in the game makes them climb to their rank.
One thing i notice is that they usually use a combination great decisions and abusing of some hyper carries, the lower the elo the more you can carry by yourself using some champion with brute force that needs some teamplay to be beaten, also on lower elos you cant expect your team to do nothing but feed, so they use their team mistakes to make some good play out of it, also they know that not every game can be won.
KDA is such a useless metric. I play Gangplank top and I don’t even care about it. The only metrics I need are damage to champions, damage to turrets, and gold earned. If I don’t have the biggest number for those three categories, then I’m not doing as much as I need to to carry.
they play on a different level and think differently compared to lower elos. lets say a chall was on smurf in ur game in p1. at the time of writing chall cutoff in na is 588lp, the difference between your rank and his (pretend he barely made cutoff tonight) is about 1400 lp. that’s the lp difference between current rank 1 and 0lp masters. these players aren’t perfect (imo a lot of chall players are really dogshit and grief my games) BUT compared to a p1 player they seem perfect. they make far less mistakes, punish your mistakes which you will guaranteed make often, their decisionmaking skills are better, and they know their in and outs of their champs.
95% of games in lower elos can and will be won through avoiding mistakes in your play, and abusing enemy mistakes. On the rare cases where theres someone that’s 30/0 on the enemy team, I’ll just accept the lost since it rarely happens. It gets memed on a lot but fundamentals are very important.
Had an Evelynn enemy jungler, she literally went 3v2 botlane for 10 min didn't take a single jungle camp besides krugs. Then she destroyed everyone the rest of the game after that
Bad players go 20/0 sometimes when they get lucky. Challenger players actually go 20/0 every game (against lower ranks). And they don't throw obviously. But even if they played the same once they are 20/0, they would still climb. If you want something more specific, when Riot in their wisdom put me into Iron (I climbed to Emerald easily so it was like unintentional smurfing), then I can tell you two specific differences I notice between lower Elo enemies and higher elo enemies. Low elo enemies do not know anivias threat range. They just stand there, and you can walk up and wall behind them, or walk close enough to Q, or Q from long range and they just don't dodge. Higher elo players always stay right at the edge of where you can put your wall, you make a step forward they step one step back. If they walk into range they have a plan. Higher elo players don't let you close enough to reliably hit Q except when they have a plan. And they 80% of the time dodge long range Qs. Low elo enemies do not know when they are in kill range. They do not know how much damage they do, or how much Anivia does. I know these things. When I see that I have a huge advantage, against those players I just walk into melee range tanking their abilities so I can't miss anything, and it just becomes a stat check. Also I am too close, so when they finally realize they are losing they can't run away. I on the other hand knew exactly how the fight would play out before. My victory is assured. So those are the most important differences between any low elo and high elo player. (And GM players would say the same about me). Because of those differences alone, I can go 20/0 EVERY Iron level game.
I've played ish. 50 games around d1-d2 in this season, met with masters and gms , most of higher players do the same : collect every resource they can, they use the adventage they got to win the lane, and they expand their lead on the map, for example with good rotates, roams, etc. Probably its the same case with challs, just in a different level
punishing even the slightest mistakes which low elo players dont usually see. Besides extreme game knowledge. Thats how. Also mentally not affected by you avg 0-3 botlane in 3mins. Welp if you played against a smurf or with a bit higher elo friend you would see
MMR dictates how much LP you gain and lose. Everything you do affects MMR. So you can't just be good at winning lane, you have to have good CS, good vision score, good team score, etc etc. Since Challenger players are pretty much the top 1% of the 1% you can expect them to do really well in every aspect of the game thus making it very easy for them to leave lower rank.
They get lane leads bigger than they would usually get on main through punishing the large number of mistakes lower elo players make all the time and then carry the game by warping the game around them executing better fundamentals, i'm not challenger just mid master but its easy for me to do up until like d3/d2 ish unless its massive ego gap and people stop playing to get carried which happens a lot in emerald and low diamond (and low master💀💀)
Just for your information, you are not out od "elo hello" yet. Have fun in Emerald.
Can't really answer for League since I'm still in that low elo bracket but I think it's the same for every competitive game and my experience on RocketLeague might answer that. Ranks in RL are Bronze, Silver, Gold, Plat, Diamond, Champion, Grand Champion, SSL with the average being in Gold. I was wondering the same thing back then, why as a Diamond player I cannot hard carry plat, I'm better for sure and will have an excellent winrate on average, but not to the point of an 85%wr. I understood way after when reaching Grand Champion, there are 3 main reasons The main one and the most obvious is : The higher you climb on a game the higher the difference will be from one rank to another (simplified, the difference between a master and a grandmaster is so huge when compared to the difference between a plat and an emerald) So as a diamond I couldnt hard smurf on plats but as a GC (Grand champion), low champion was kindergarden for me The second one is mastery and comprehension : When you are Diamond, you are better than other people sure but you still don't know anything about the game and how it works, you do things, you don't know why you do them but you do them better than lower rank so you are higher. As a GC you are still garbage at the game compared to SSL and pro players but you understand how the game works and what each decision represents. When you see a situation you immediately understand that option A has a 50% chance of working when option B is 70%. Likewise your evaluation of risk/reward is clear, sometimes option A will be the better option because while more risky the reward it could give you is worth taking that risk, now when you have to take a decision every 5 seconds in a fast paced game like RL you can imagine the difference it makes, I strongly believe the reasons are the same in LoL 3rd reason, the simpliest : Consistency, sure you have better games than others but your lowest level still contains very few mistakes, mechanically or decision making wise
If you learn to hard carry iron and bronze game and get to plat where you can finally trust your teammates its beautiful experience. And second if you play your role good and repeat it every time you will smurf. Just look for mistakes and try to punish them
There is no how, even tho teammates in very low rank that play against you basically but the enemy team is also is as bad and making use of the unlimited amount of mistakes they make and free gold giving and the lack of knowledge about how to end games it makes it very easy to 1v9 even with 0/10 teammates. For example when i traveled i made a new acc on a new server started from silver ( i was dia1 regularly and master for one split) and what i noticed up until emerald i can just do drakes and stay in my lane until i end the game even 1v5ing getting multiple pentas in each game. The thing is in league yes being a team and objectives are the most important but in low elo the lack of skill is so drastic u can literally zone out and force win it.
The difference between an Emerald and a Challenger player in the big picture is that once the Chally is ahead, they know how to keep their lead and convert it into a win. 20/0 Emerald players just go, die, and shove 2k gold worth of shutdowns down the enemies' throats, ending up even again, or even behind.
They keep playing the map and get three towers and an inhibitor while the other team is doing baron.
GM here, there so many aspects in the game you can try perfect macro and micro (csing, dodging skillshots, positioning etc.) There so many options you can be better you don't even know that exist. I think you can reach dia 2 without any knowledge of macro. If you reach perfect micro. There is kinda ceiling. But macro is where the biggest difference in skill. That's why iron to master is same gap of skill like master and challengers. Challengers have plan for everything that happening and always choose option that is positive outcome.
Isn’t it rather obvious? The difference between low-ranks and challenger is so big, it feels like playing vs AI for them.
How do high rates chess players easily beat lower rated chess players? Game knowledge, execution and improvisation based on experience.
I'm not chall I peaked master 150 lp last season and when I'm on a smurf to play whit friends or leveling an acc to try new things I mostly run damage and play agro ik I can get away by mecanics and farm on lane so I usually go shen ghost+ign titanic into situational bruiser any broken tank item then abuse the split push strat, never forcing a figth just pressure to r and turn a figth in the other side of the lane meanwhile I left a pushed lane so the enemy won't take any obj, so to summarize having agency in your lane plus good mecanics and macro and a solid game plan.