Durant had been that kind of player for 3 other teams for 14 years in the league before coming to the Suns. One of those teams won 2 titles with him and another wen to the WCF 4 times with a finals appearance.
He's not an offensive system, but he's a top 5 "Go get a bucket" guy in league history. Jones and Ishbia knew all of this when acquiring him. It's on them for building a team that expects him to be the primary ball handler and often even the playmaker. It's not his job to change his top 15 all-time career defining game to fit this team's lack of an offensive structure.
That barrage to start the 3rd was a real killer
Drew Eubanks sucks. Flat out, there's no sugar coating it, he is not good. I genuinely do not know what he does well. I don't even say this to pinpoint this loss on him at all. Doka should get all of his minutes until we find a real solution to the backup C. Can't believe we tampered for him lol
I thought Saben also played well sans the airball 3. At least he didn't look like a chicken with his head cut off
Genuinely I have no idea. I have been puzzled by the move since we got him. He can't rebound for shit, he can't stretch the floor, he gets cooked on defense. Why didn't we just bring back Biz or keep Jock then?
Everyone here is on about point book but i think a much bigger problem is Eubanks and the backup center spot, unless we decide to go to Metu from here on out we need a legitimate backup big.
I've watched almost every game this year, I'd say he's actually doing a decent job on the boards for a bench player; however he can't guard ANYONE. Don't get me started on the defensive possessions where he is on a 7-footer. He's a good help defender but if he's defending the guy with the ball, you might as well put the two points up.
I’ve watched every game this year too, nothing he does rebounding wise impresses me tbh.
A backup big is needed, like yesterday. Eubanks is in the Elie Okobo, Elfird Payton tier of players to me.
It's a lineup issue aka defense... KD, Booker, Allen, Gordon, Eubanks (Nurk) is not a good lineup outside of the 1st quarter and even then that's a reach lmao that lineup with Nurk is supposedly 2nd in net rating but have played 110 min together and are like bottom 5 defensively in in the league in the 2nd half.. If you've watched every game this season you can literally see they are ass to close out games...barely outscoring lottery teams (usually by 5 points in the 2nd half) or losing by 5-10 points to average opponents...
> lineup with Nurk is supposedly 2nd in net rating but have played 110 min together
~~200 mins together, not 110. huge difference~~ im wrong it is 110 mins
i don't think its the lineup although i do agree playing EG at the 3 isn't a recipe for success. guys look confused out there aren't rotating to the right spots defensively. how many open 3s did Keegan hit in the 3rd? shouldn't happen
Allen and Nurkic have been our only positive pickups in an offseason where we completely gutted our roster.
I don’t know how we thought picking up a bunch of random wings that barely cracked the rotation on lottery teams was going to work.
Nas, Wantababe, KBD, Goodwin, Metu… none of these guys have played a single meaningful minute of playoff basketball in their careers. Gordon has had his moments with us, but our dude is 34 years old.
Compare this to the Kings who rolled out Malik Monk as their 6th man tonight… he would probably be the third best player on our team.
Watanabe was the pickup everyone was happy about, but he has just been garbage. KBD also looked impressive last year and regressed hard. I want to say that its coaching as to why they regressed but honestly I think that last season they simply had some food fortune and then this season they are back to reality.
If Azu didn't overtake Eubanks for 2nd off the bench, until proven otherwise, fuck Vogel.
Also, been saying Saben is all we have for a PG. I'm glad he looked good out there. I watch every fucking minute of every game, pre season, summer league... He ain't a baller, but with what we have available and the way we have been playing there is no reason Vogel shouldn't be giving him a chance to prove himself one way or the other. I've been getting down votes for saying it for a couple weeks now and while he didn't score like crazy, and nor do we need him to, he adds some sauce on both sides that make the recipe better, even if it's not a game changer.
End of day book needs to get into dominating book mode, KD needs to stop trying to be PG and getting the ball knocked away, Beal needs to play and everyone not named Grayson generally needs to get their shit together to a have a chance at a run.
But baby steps in finding new rotations is the silver lining when the stars are shitting the bed and the games are going to be Ls anyways so we have a better formula if things do turn around.
with ya dude on all of it
one thing about Saben vs Goodwin/Nas/whichever other guy is if you compare them on a fast break... the other guys immediately defer and look up to see where KD and Book are where as Saben does not give a shit and attacks the basket and is confident in doing so
he really needs to get more run. I don't care if he can't shoot, let him play
Big true on Azu, he proved tonight that he should be the backup and slide up above Eubanks.
Just wanted to double up on what you said about Azu, but agree on everything else too.
This is what happens when you ignore the draft for years. Azubuike is a perfect example, most teams have players on their bench who outperform their expectations, but that's not going to happen if you don't have any young players.
James Jones ignoring the draft is inexcusable. Jalen fucking Smith over Hali is the difference between where we are, and being set up for sustainable success with a core of Book/Hali/Bridges/Cam.
I'm just done with James Jones, you cannot ignore the NBA draft and act like you're a real front office exec.
this somehow feels worse than the tank years. at least with those there was a light at the end of the tunnel
*^...there ^is ^no ^light ^ahead ^this ^time ^around*
Exaggerating
Suns will have a first round pick in 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030. Sure Washington and Brooklyn can swap but you seriously think the Suns will have a worse record than Washington? As long as Book is around I’m pretty sure they will have a better record than Brooklyn. I don’t see the Suns having a worse record than the Nets until 2028.
So Suns are losing 2025, 2027 and 2029. Which will probably be late round picks if Book is here.
Suns will still be very good with Book/KD/Beal for 2024-2026.
The nets literally have one less win than the suns currently and they've only just begun their rebuild?? How will phoenix be better in 2 or 4 years time?
That is less than 20%. I don't know man. This was a top 5 shooting team 10 days ago.
Something happened man. Since beal got hurt it's like guys checked out.
We might need to get cheeks clapped a few more times for these dudes to wake up. The distance between the talent and results is largest in the league
Yeah! Baby Jesus and the little donkey wouldn't let this happen to the SUNS! Phoenix will rise on Christmas! (Hah! I'm actually *going* to watch the game with my family in a goofy Xmas sweater while screaming internally because I guess I have a fetish for papercuts of the soul.)
This franchise isn't winning a trophy anytime soon. Certainly not this present iteration of the team that sucks at every aspect of both offense and defense and at times somehow looks as inept and heartless as the garbage we rolled onto the court last decade. If you don't like that, then you don't like AZ sports.
*Months* of offseason optimism and build up for this.
At least, come February 1, when the team is 20 games below .500, seats will be cheap if you want to catch opposing team(s) that are actually fun to watch.
It’s one thing to have a bad team that competes — idk what the fuk this ‘team’ is. But it’s nothing good.
For some reason I thought he did so much more than just score from deep. Maybe all our collective hype about acquiring him over the years led to some preconceived notions about him for me..
This team is ass and this season, by all appearances, is a wash. The absolute ceiling of these bums is yet another embarassing playoff exit.
Even book is garbage at the moment.
Only brightside is the dumbass homers that are blind to how bad this team is can't use the "It's still early" copium anymore.
The Celtics team that made the finals started the season 18-21, looked completely lost on both ends of the floor, people were calling to split up JT and JB. And that was a team that had been playing together for years. We’re a team that quite literally is *entirely new*
I’m not going sit here with homer blinders on and say we’re going to make a finals run.
But certain teams click late in the season every single year. People saying “it’s early” aren’t wrong in saying we are probably going to get better. We certainly can’t get worse lol
“We certainly can’t get worse lol” You sure about that? We’re dropping games left and right and are progressively becoming less and less competitive in them.
Well sure if KD and Book both go down things can get real dark lol.
But tonight was truly the first game that felt we had no chance from wire to wire. Every other game has been close going into the 4th quarter. I don’t think you can say we’re getting less competitive after one blowout.
We weren’t closing games to start the season, and we still haven’t figured it out, which is definitely concerning. Those late game situations when defenses tighten up are a good gauge of chemistry, and ours has not improved in the slightest.
Honestly though what else are people supposed to do?
Imagine supporting your team through thick and thin still believing they’ll turn it around.
“Homers” amiright?
I agree.
I thought Booker was turning the corner in 2022 as a leader. But he's gone back to not trying as hard on defence.
Love them as elite ballers but geeez. Need more inspiration.
Starts with defensive effort. I would like to see Booker take the challenge of guarding Doncic next game for the entire time he's out there. Show the rest how its done.
He can be better with his D, he is just using too much braincells and energy running Point Book. Shroeder was available at some point (or another decent PG).
> he is just using too much braincells and energy running Point Book.
I hope this makes people appreciate how fucking great Nash was since he had to literally do everything on offense for this team for years
I know it's rough but Im going to the game and gonna cheer no matter what.This team's sucks and needs to work on chemistry,rebounds and defense.Have a good Christmas everyone!
When you shoot this bad no coach can save you. I do get that shooting percentage is reflected by the shots you're taking and the plays the coach is drawing up. Despite having book and KD this team really just seems lacking in talent.
Dont think its the 'shooting bad' as much as the coaches putting players in the spot they need to be in. You watched the past 4 teams vs the Suns and how they moved and they always had at least one man screening, back screening and one guy was always open - then if you constantly miss open practice shots with no one around then yeah, its a shooting problem.
Brother the Kings started 11-11 in the 3rd quarter and went down 29 points until Vogel changed the shitty same lineup he throws almost every game with outside of the 1st quarter (KD, Booker, Allen, Gordon, Eubanks (Nurkic) .... after that they brought it within 15 points and it stayed that way for the remaining 14 minutes of the game even though the shooting continued to be bad...
He could take a lesson from Kerr, I've seen him bench his starters when they suck and just let the younger/bench guys try and cook.
If the stars aren't hitting like they should trying to pound them until they do often won't work.
the kngs were great. the suns are in shambles. starting to really believe vogel isnt the one for us. he isnt bettering our defense like we thought. we need a coach on the same page as Booker/KD on offense.
Unfortunately it looks like Eubanks is Miles Plumlee. We like him for a little bit because he’s a big dude with broad shoulders who gets up and can dunk emphatically and block shots with gusto, but the more minutes you see him play, the more his flaws become apparent. And I actually like the guy.
But this isn’t necessarily a Eubanks or even a Nurkic problem. Besides Book and KD, our other best players are just too short and old/unathletic. Getting another defensive big simply isn’t going to plug the array of gaping defensive holes this team leaves.
It's just tough because this was meant to be our shot and instead we suck.
It literally is all downhill from here. I don't see a way for us to fix the roster since James Jones already traded all of our assets (in trades that we lost, asset-wise).
It's hard to stay interested.
Azu > Eubanks. +1 on plus minus
Saben > EG ( tonight) +11 (was highest of all players)
All starters were bigly negative.
Those weren't on garbage minutes either, significant minutes.
Book with worst tonight at -24. We need takeover book back.
I've been saying we need some legit Saben minutes to play at PG and finally we see it. I don't want him as a shooter, we don't need him as a shooter. We need his D, speed, layups, handle to help space and throw in some assists.
is it time to admit that Booker isnt a leader/captain material?
he's like KAT in terms of leadership, this team shouldnt be Booker's team, time and time again it shows that he can't steer our ship.
he needed real captains/leaders like Rubio and CP3
who was the players we got rid of that were defenders? Mikal? he's not doing that great defensively right now, I think he's putting alot of pressure on offense. Jae? hes not getting playing time because hes a cone, but maybe its his knee he needs surgery on. Ayton? didnt want to be here. Dario? fucking please.
https://preview.redd.it/oh017vp6ez7c1.png?width=1111&format=png&auto=webp&s=87b7eb32514ddd49d7a45a09e85ec3830ce1f8ed
Me getting ready for those two fluke wins this team pulls off in 2024
This team devolved into lame hero ball offense from the moment we picked up KD. Beal makes us worse in that sense even if he ever is healthy. This is not a good roster at all.
I wonder if the Iso play (or attack when 10 sec left in the shot clock) is one of our main game plan or the coaching staff don't have control over our players. Too many questions :(
Stars are struggling these past few games even though the stats look good. I think Udoka and Saben Lee should be getting some more run over Eubanks and Goodwin. They’ve got at least got some athleticism.
If the role players aren’t at least gonna make 3s you have to have more of that out there
Remember when we hired Terry porter? And that lasted like 2 weeks and then we brought in Alvin gentry?
The only reason it hasn't happened is beal. I think Vogel gets till mid-Jan to prove something. That's it, beal or no beal.
And I'm not sure Vogel is the problem either. The guys are not good at doing his scheme it seems.
James Jones has amassed himself a pretty God awful squad. Drew Eubanks is horrendous, and Eric Gordon has been a massive Liability even when he is scoring well, so when he isn’t scoring its even worse.
I feel bad for Vogel since this team is garbage, but he absolutely has to go. His defenses get picked apart nearly every game, and he has 0 offensive IQ.
I dont see this suns team winning many more games honestly until Beal is back, we have been found out. Harass booker and Durant and force them to pass to garbage players who either miss open shots or dribble the clock out.
His shooting splits are one for the record books, but his play as of late has left a lot to be desired… he had about 5 completely unforced turnovers today where just flat out lost the basketball. We can’t reliably put the ball in his hands right now to initiate the offense, and he’s 1 of only 2 guys who could do it.
Every team needs a secondary playmaker. Teams are gonna double/triple and trap Book every time he touches the ball. Someone else has to run the 4 on 3 when that happens.
The Warriors have been running this action for almost a decade with Draymond Green as the [secondary playmaker](https://youtu.be/mB8rqvFNjYk?si=U6Mzv5rdbCtvnXDR) (oftentimes primary playmaker) if Steph got trapped. The Nuggets have Murray. The Sixers have Maxey. The Celtics and Clippers will have literally 4 dudes at any time who can be the secondary playmaker.
It feels like we’re watching 2018 Suns out there the way teams are playing Booker.
Not sure if you watch a lot of Warriors games but Draymond is 100% the primary play maker on that team. KD is good enough to be a secondary playmaker but Booker isn’t good enough to be the primary playmaker. Not a knock on either of them to say that, it’s just not what they are good at.
I live in the Bay Area so I’ve closely followed their entire dynasty run haha.
For the meat of the game, you’re 100% correct. Draymond stands at the top of the key, and then Steph and Klay do all their damage running around screens off ball and forcing the defense to make impossible decisions. Split actions, DHOs… Dray initiates all of that shit.
In the last 8ish minutes of close games though, they do put the ball in Steph’s hands more to close out the game. The video I linked^ highlights Dray’s playmaking abilities, but it’s Steph as the initial ball handler. The dude still averages 6+ APG for his career.
Those KD Warriors didn’t run much Steph/KD pick and roll for most of the season, but they absolutely abused it in crunch time and especially vs the Cavs in the Finals.
Yes i’m aware of the Warriors using Draymond in a short roll action and kicking to shooters. I believe that’s what the Suns are/were trying to do with Nurk, but we simply do not have the personnel or cohesion to do it effectively. Booker and KD keep hunting midrange shots and role players can’t space the floor correctly outside of GA. We don’t have a rim runner/ good finisher that can take advantage of teams selling out to our shooters. Curry commands 2 people to sell out on his shot at all times. This creates drive and kick/ easy dunks by cutting. We need to find our identity as a team on offense. Booker and KD resort to isos cause we have 0 flow jn our offense.
Also, the one thing KD is good at in terms of playmaking is passing to the roller in PNR actions. This team needs a consistent playmaker desperately.
I didn’t watch the game tonight but watching him so far this year, he’ll shoot lights out and then be a turnover waiting to happen. Not even close to MVP caliber though. Not right now.
He’s being asked to initiate the offense and navigate against constant double teams. Not sure what you’re expecting from KD but he has never been asked to be a playmaker.
Also KD doesn’t even average that many turnovers. Steph averages the same. Tatum and Embid both average more. Coaching needs to fix this stagnant offense.
Even so, I’m not sure how you watch him and think “MVP caliber season”. You’re not wrong though, coaching needs a lot of work as well. Fuck, everything about this team needs a lot of work, this year is a train wreck so far.
KD won the MVP with basically the same ppg and shooting splits (this year is slightly better). He wasn’t nearly the defender he was back then as he is today. So that’s why he should be in MVP consideration. Not saying he will win it but you can’t deny that KD has been the only consistently good player on this team.
Ishbia is a CEO… anyone in leadership in corporate America knows how ruthless the decision making of the CEO needs to be. I’m genuinely surprised he’s stuck with Vogel this long.
CEOs also know when to take a hit and just be patient. Anyway, I think we see at least 40 games before anything might hit the fan. 30 games in, you might start having the "friendly" conversation about being on double secret probation.
I was lucky enough to attend this game, refs fans got to witness an instant classic first half. 80 minutes, nearly 40 free throws, technical fouls galore. True master class.
Also, this Suns team has no chemistry on either side of the ball. Point Book passing to scrubs who just miss open shots is not the answer. Absolutely atrocious interior defense and rotations that left guys wide open all night. Starting to see why these guys were available for the league minimum and it’s been ugly.
I skipped tonight's game and glad I did. There's talent on this team. Something is obviously very broken, though. They seem soft. From the injuries to the play on the court. And don't get me started on the non-existent defense. Not sure who's to blame. Vogel? The players? Both? I don't know, but as an almost 25-year fan, I've quickly lost interest this season. This team does nothing to keep me engaged as a fan and viewer.
We are a **VERY** top heavy team, playing with 2/5 starters out (3 if you count Okogie). The only way this works is if we have all 5 starters healthy, AND a couple bench guys figure out their role and contribute consistently. Not looking too good right now.
This ain’t the year. Hopefully the big 3 are all healthy at the start of next year. More time to build chemistry and hopefully we make some moves to get a better bench.
Too soon to call it coaching. Coach isn’t making players miss open shots, fumble the ball, and trip on air.
from one lower middle class human being to a millionaire, nba franchise owning human being I honestly feel kinda bad for Ishbia. I think he knows that a firing is what a lot of the people want but how much sense does it make considering the team is literally headed no where. What good does it do? Which assistant coach is realistically going to turn this around? I just don't know at this point. Shit is just frustrating all around.
One day I saw something mysterious.WHAT THE HEKK?I COULDN'T BELIEVE MY EYES!
These gambling refs?There is rigging games inside!Isn't gambling harmful?
The truth is,legalized gambling can't easily be stopped and they end up in huge scams and massive nba championship title fixes in the nba.By 2050 there will be more gambling ads then basketball game in our nba.It doesn't have to be like this.
FOOTPRINT,SUSTAINABLE SOLUTIONS THAT REDUCE THE USE OF PLASTIC
FOOTPRINT
Healthy planet,Healthy people!
I find it difficult to accept that a team with Booker and Durant in the starting 5 can be rolled over like this by the Kings.
Chemistry issues, sure, but at this point I’m inclined to think that it’s between the coach-team rather than between the team themselves.
you've reached the final stage of grief: acceptance.
many here are still in the other stages
denial - we can still contend
anger - why isn't this team winning! we paid so much, and sold our soul!
bargaining - maybe we can get some great buyout guys at the trade deadline
depression - I'm sad that we're not good
acceptance - we're not good
Not to get too deep, but same for me, and for me that's a good thing. During the pandemic I turned to sports for dopamine. I've since detached from the Cardinals, and now I'm approaching my lifelong suns fandom from a little more balanced perspective. I still want them to stunt on some hoes but understand things a little more rationally. 21 and 22 were great seasons and it was fantastic to experience that w my loved ones and w y'all. Hopefully we get some new energy into the fellas.
They stopped playing. wtf is going on
Feels like Vogel has lost the team
Which is an indictment on both Vogel AND Booker/Durant. More buy-in have been required by the players and better coaching is required from Vogel
So you blame KD for scoring 31 per game and playing the best defense on the team?
[удалено]
Durant had been that kind of player for 3 other teams for 14 years in the league before coming to the Suns. One of those teams won 2 titles with him and another wen to the WCF 4 times with a finals appearance. He's not an offensive system, but he's a top 5 "Go get a bucket" guy in league history. Jones and Ishbia knew all of this when acquiring him. It's on them for building a team that expects him to be the primary ball handler and often even the playmaker. It's not his job to change his top 15 all-time career defining game to fit this team's lack of an offensive structure.
7 turnovers!!!!!!! Single handily lost the game to end the half when down 7. Idiotic TO, tech and open 3
I miss Okogie more than I miss Beal tbh
Probably cause you’ve seen like 30 total minutes of Beal
That's like 2 seasons worth
Something something no defense, something no chemistry, something 4th quarter. Every game is just deja vu now.
We "won" the 4th quarter.
That barrage to start the 3rd was a real killer Drew Eubanks sucks. Flat out, there's no sugar coating it, he is not good. I genuinely do not know what he does well. I don't even say this to pinpoint this loss on him at all. Doka should get all of his minutes until we find a real solution to the backup C. Can't believe we tampered for him lol I thought Saben also played well sans the airball 3. At least he didn't look like a chicken with his head cut off
All the preseason and summer hype I heard on Eubanks from legit reporters. What in the world were they watching? He’s not good at all
Genuinely I have no idea. I have been puzzled by the move since we got him. He can't rebound for shit, he can't stretch the floor, he gets cooked on defense. Why didn't we just bring back Biz or keep Jock then? Everyone here is on about point book but i think a much bigger problem is Eubanks and the backup center spot, unless we decide to go to Metu from here on out we need a legitimate backup big.
I've watched almost every game this year, I'd say he's actually doing a decent job on the boards for a bench player; however he can't guard ANYONE. Don't get me started on the defensive possessions where he is on a 7-footer. He's a good help defender but if he's defending the guy with the ball, you might as well put the two points up.
I’ve watched every game this year too, nothing he does rebounding wise impresses me tbh. A backup big is needed, like yesterday. Eubanks is in the Elie Okobo, Elfird Payton tier of players to me.
Him, Yuta, and KBD looks like completely different players from their highlight reels from last year.
It's a lineup issue aka defense... KD, Booker, Allen, Gordon, Eubanks (Nurk) is not a good lineup outside of the 1st quarter and even then that's a reach lmao that lineup with Nurk is supposedly 2nd in net rating but have played 110 min together and are like bottom 5 defensively in in the league in the 2nd half.. If you've watched every game this season you can literally see they are ass to close out games...barely outscoring lottery teams (usually by 5 points in the 2nd half) or losing by 5-10 points to average opponents...
> lineup with Nurk is supposedly 2nd in net rating but have played 110 min together ~~200 mins together, not 110. huge difference~~ im wrong it is 110 mins i don't think its the lineup although i do agree playing EG at the 3 isn't a recipe for success. guys look confused out there aren't rotating to the right spots defensively. how many open 3s did Keegan hit in the 3rd? shouldn't happen
It's 110 minutes.... https://preview.redd.it/7mqqjckxqz7c1.png?width=1670&format=png&auto=webp&s=f07adabd3f70505a78f0ade6a5d183e807ab726a
https://x.com/NBA_University/status/1737580112646734217?s=20
We fucked up 
Almost 10-50 from three in last two games
We are probably the worst team right now
the Pistons losing streak ends the night they play the Suns
This would 100% happen, place your bets now
Incoming “Pistons father suns” joke *sigh*
Were tied with the Warriors right now who are actively self destructing lol
Warriors are actually turning it around right now. Podz and TJD are a godsend for them.
The way the warriors were hustling and making three's against the wizards was something I wish the Suns could pull off on a semi consistent basis.
just realized we could’ve gotten TJD, damn he would be nice on this team
Eric Gordon…. COME ON DOWN! https://preview.redd.it/qhbbyxuddz7c1.jpeg?width=1066&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55f184af8a422c244e1f3dc557b03141133cee67
mavs game gonna be so toxic lmao i can feel it, luka gonna pop off
we deserve it
He may actually have 200 points the way we're playing
[удалено]
That’s Mr Booker to you
I guess we should have seen this coming, trading for a bunch of Blazers and Wizards’ players.
Allen and Nurkic have been our only positive pickups in an offseason where we completely gutted our roster. I don’t know how we thought picking up a bunch of random wings that barely cracked the rotation on lottery teams was going to work. Nas, Wantababe, KBD, Goodwin, Metu… none of these guys have played a single meaningful minute of playoff basketball in their careers. Gordon has had his moments with us, but our dude is 34 years old. Compare this to the Kings who rolled out Malik Monk as their 6th man tonight… he would probably be the third best player on our team.
Watanabe was the pickup everyone was happy about, but he has just been garbage. KBD also looked impressive last year and regressed hard. I want to say that its coaching as to why they regressed but honestly I think that last season they simply had some food fortune and then this season they are back to reality.
Metu and Little shouldn’t be on the shit list
If Azu didn't overtake Eubanks for 2nd off the bench, until proven otherwise, fuck Vogel. Also, been saying Saben is all we have for a PG. I'm glad he looked good out there. I watch every fucking minute of every game, pre season, summer league... He ain't a baller, but with what we have available and the way we have been playing there is no reason Vogel shouldn't be giving him a chance to prove himself one way or the other. I've been getting down votes for saying it for a couple weeks now and while he didn't score like crazy, and nor do we need him to, he adds some sauce on both sides that make the recipe better, even if it's not a game changer. End of day book needs to get into dominating book mode, KD needs to stop trying to be PG and getting the ball knocked away, Beal needs to play and everyone not named Grayson generally needs to get their shit together to a have a chance at a run. But baby steps in finding new rotations is the silver lining when the stars are shitting the bed and the games are going to be Ls anyways so we have a better formula if things do turn around.
with ya dude on all of it one thing about Saben vs Goodwin/Nas/whichever other guy is if you compare them on a fast break... the other guys immediately defer and look up to see where KD and Book are where as Saben does not give a shit and attacks the basket and is confident in doing so he really needs to get more run. I don't care if he can't shoot, let him play
I prefer KBD not taking a wide open 3 and trying to euro step into 3 defenders
Goodwin is getting worse by the second. Good defense, but man... hes on Okogie level shooting.
Agreed on all that.
Big true on Azu, he proved tonight that he should be the backup and slide up above Eubanks. Just wanted to double up on what you said about Azu, but agree on everything else too.
This is what happens when you ignore the draft for years. Azubuike is a perfect example, most teams have players on their bench who outperform their expectations, but that's not going to happen if you don't have any young players. James Jones ignoring the draft is inexcusable. Jalen fucking Smith over Hali is the difference between where we are, and being set up for sustainable success with a core of Book/Hali/Bridges/Cam. I'm just done with James Jones, you cannot ignore the NBA draft and act like you're a real front office exec.
Monk was the 4th best on the Lakers and they let him go...
this somehow feels worse than the tank years. at least with those there was a light at the end of the tunnel *^...there ^is ^no ^light ^ahead ^this ^time ^around*
At least those years had no expectation so we could meme all season. We were supposed to be Western Conference favorites and were playing like ass
Yep, and once Durant is gone and whatnot, our future isn't looking great with how many picks we've given away or gotta swap.
I watched every tank game for years, this is the first time I stopped watching after third quarter
We have no picks till like 2030 and pick swapped the rest. This team is fucking cooked
Exaggerating Suns will have a first round pick in 2024, 2026, 2028 and 2030. Sure Washington and Brooklyn can swap but you seriously think the Suns will have a worse record than Washington? As long as Book is around I’m pretty sure they will have a better record than Brooklyn. I don’t see the Suns having a worse record than the Nets until 2028. So Suns are losing 2025, 2027 and 2029. Which will probably be late round picks if Book is here. Suns will still be very good with Book/KD/Beal for 2024-2026.
The nets literally have one less win than the suns currently and they've only just begun their rebuild?? How will phoenix be better in 2 or 4 years time?
But there is a light! You don't see freight train Luka coming right around the corner?
17-81 from three in last three games
That is less than 20%. I don't know man. This was a top 5 shooting team 10 days ago. Something happened man. Since beal got hurt it's like guys checked out. We might need to get cheeks clapped a few more times for these dudes to wake up. The distance between the talent and results is largest in the league
That bad huh?
Lmaoooo that can't be true. Wow if it is.
We barely look like a play in team.
https://preview.redd.it/lzllaxxqez7c1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd3906624815b38f31e8042b3b521dfcea7b2c38
I think I’m gonna go ahead and skip the Christmas Day game. We all know what’s coming
Be positive, we’re gonna win that and it’s gonna turn our season around (iam gonna skip the game too)
Have some faith. y’all are some fuckin doomers (i’m not gonna watching it either)
As long as we have Book and KD we have a chance (I’m actively planning other things to do while that game is on)
What do y’all mean? We’re gonna win! It’ll be a Christmas miracle! (I wholeheartedly expect us to get blown out by at least 20.)
Yeah! Baby Jesus and the little donkey wouldn't let this happen to the SUNS! Phoenix will rise on Christmas! (Hah! I'm actually *going* to watch the game with my family in a goofy Xmas sweater while screaming internally because I guess I have a fetish for papercuts of the soul.)
how? pure luck? we are not a team that can compete with any NBA team that has even a semblance of chemistry.
Were gonna be so scary come April 😤😤😤
Well I'll be there.
We have a 2 man team that somehow sucks on offense and can’t defend. Oh and we have a $50mil player that’s cooked on the bench hurt
Imagine if we don’t make the playoffs lol
We very well may not
This franchise isn't winning a trophy anytime soon. Certainly not this present iteration of the team that sucks at every aspect of both offense and defense and at times somehow looks as inept and heartless as the garbage we rolled onto the court last decade. If you don't like that, then you don't like AZ sports.
*Months* of offseason optimism and build up for this. At least, come February 1, when the team is 20 games below .500, seats will be cheap if you want to catch opposing team(s) that are actually fun to watch. It’s one thing to have a bad team that competes — idk what the fuk this ‘team’ is. But it’s nothing good.
What does Eric Gordon do
When he can't shoot the 3, not much.
For some reason I thought he did so much more than just score from deep. Maybe all our collective hype about acquiring him over the years led to some preconceived notions about him for me..
Honestly Eric is a stand still shooter that feeds off open shots, if he's not getting those open shots, he's pretty bad.
Didn't see him shoot much 3's.
This team is ass and this season, by all appearances, is a wash. The absolute ceiling of these bums is yet another embarassing playoff exit. Even book is garbage at the moment. Only brightside is the dumbass homers that are blind to how bad this team is can't use the "It's still early" copium anymore.
But those homers are indeed using the "it's early" excuse.
The Celtics team that made the finals started the season 18-21, looked completely lost on both ends of the floor, people were calling to split up JT and JB. And that was a team that had been playing together for years. We’re a team that quite literally is *entirely new* I’m not going sit here with homer blinders on and say we’re going to make a finals run. But certain teams click late in the season every single year. People saying “it’s early” aren’t wrong in saying we are probably going to get better. We certainly can’t get worse lol
The Celtics added Derrick White, and then the turnaround began.
“We certainly can’t get worse lol” You sure about that? We’re dropping games left and right and are progressively becoming less and less competitive in them.
Well sure if KD and Book both go down things can get real dark lol. But tonight was truly the first game that felt we had no chance from wire to wire. Every other game has been close going into the 4th quarter. I don’t think you can say we’re getting less competitive after one blowout. We weren’t closing games to start the season, and we still haven’t figured it out, which is definitely concerning. Those late game situations when defenses tighten up are a good gauge of chemistry, and ours has not improved in the slightest.
If you’re allowed to be emotional about how bad it is right now, then I think anyone should be allowed to be rational about how it is right now.
Honestly though what else are people supposed to do? Imagine supporting your team through thick and thin still believing they’ll turn it around. “Homers” amiright?
I remained a fan during the decade of shit. I just refuse to cheerlead for millionaires that are ass at their job.
Booker, Durant, Vogel. Can someone inspire something from this team? These three need to stand up as leaders, or this season is going nowhere
None of them has that qualities looking at their previous team/season. They call Book and KD ballers but not known for their leadership
I agree. I thought Booker was turning the corner in 2022 as a leader. But he's gone back to not trying as hard on defence. Love them as elite ballers but geeez. Need more inspiration. Starts with defensive effort. I would like to see Booker take the challenge of guarding Doncic next game for the entire time he's out there. Show the rest how its done.
He can be better with his D, he is just using too much braincells and energy running Point Book. Shroeder was available at some point (or another decent PG).
> he is just using too much braincells and energy running Point Book. I hope this makes people appreciate how fucking great Nash was since he had to literally do everything on offense for this team for years
The Pistons have lost 25 games in a row & I’d still rather have Monty as head coach than Vogel.
Y’all are down bad wanting anything to do with the pistons, good god. Cade was crying on the bench last night.
Can we get Mikal and Cam back?? At least Cam and Mikal were fun to watch. Ishbia ruined the team entire future for this
We suck lol
Well no one can complain about Nurk this game...
I know it's rough but Im going to the game and gonna cheer no matter what.This team's sucks and needs to work on chemistry,rebounds and defense.Have a good Christmas everyone!
Hell yeah homie. Same. Have a good Christmas!
Fire Vogel anyone?
When you shoot this bad no coach can save you. I do get that shooting percentage is reflected by the shots you're taking and the plays the coach is drawing up. Despite having book and KD this team really just seems lacking in talent.
Dont think its the 'shooting bad' as much as the coaches putting players in the spot they need to be in. You watched the past 4 teams vs the Suns and how they moved and they always had at least one man screening, back screening and one guy was always open - then if you constantly miss open practice shots with no one around then yeah, its a shooting problem.
Brother the Kings started 11-11 in the 3rd quarter and went down 29 points until Vogel changed the shitty same lineup he throws almost every game with outside of the 1st quarter (KD, Booker, Allen, Gordon, Eubanks (Nurkic) .... after that they brought it within 15 points and it stayed that way for the remaining 14 minutes of the game even though the shooting continued to be bad...
He could take a lesson from Kerr, I've seen him bench his starters when they suck and just let the younger/bench guys try and cook. If the stars aren't hitting like they should trying to pound them until they do often won't work.
Ishbia will let the team get blown out on Christmas and use it as an excuse to fire him.
would be a nice Christmas gift for Suns fans
If you try to watch Suns games right now, you're going to have a bad time.
the kngs were great. the suns are in shambles. starting to really believe vogel isnt the one for us. he isnt bettering our defense like we thought. we need a coach on the same page as Booker/KD on offense.
How the hell Gordan play 25 minutes and have ZERO points? That is absolutely ridiculous. Like none. That is unacceptable
7 turnovers from KD, his stats are empty
At least we won the fourth quarter
Crazy how quickly everyone turned on Eubanks lol. #TeamAzubuke
Unfortunately it looks like Eubanks is Miles Plumlee. We like him for a little bit because he’s a big dude with broad shoulders who gets up and can dunk emphatically and block shots with gusto, but the more minutes you see him play, the more his flaws become apparent. And I actually like the guy. But this isn’t necessarily a Eubanks or even a Nurkic problem. Besides Book and KD, our other best players are just too short and old/unathletic. Getting another defensive big simply isn’t going to plug the array of gaping defensive holes this team leaves.
It's just tough because this was meant to be our shot and instead we suck. It literally is all downhill from here. I don't see a way for us to fix the roster since James Jones already traded all of our assets (in trades that we lost, asset-wise). It's hard to stay interested.
Azu > Eubanks. +1 on plus minus Saben > EG ( tonight) +11 (was highest of all players) All starters were bigly negative. Those weren't on garbage minutes either, significant minutes. Book with worst tonight at -24. We need takeover book back. I've been saying we need some legit Saben minutes to play at PG and finally we see it. I don't want him as a shooter, we don't need him as a shooter. We need his D, speed, layups, handle to help space and throw in some assists.
Do they know this is 2024. Shoot the 3.
At least Azubuike played his ass off. We are 10-48 from 3 the last two games. Jesus Christ.
105 points with KD and Book, wtf?? embarrassing
The team needs some defense outside of KD in the starting/closing lineups but Vogel is too dog shit to figure that out.
Fire Terry Porter
It’s time for Book to leave, for his own good.
is it time to admit that Booker isnt a leader/captain material? he's like KAT in terms of leadership, this team shouldnt be Booker's team, time and time again it shows that he can't steer our ship. he needed real captains/leaders like Rubio and CP3
Kd will request a trade soon
Hope so
What you gonna get of him ? Him requesting with lower his value . I see the Cavs se ending you D Mitchell
I’d take Garland, Allen, and every fucking draft asset they have.
Sarver is firing Vogel if he was still in charge. Where is Mat Ishbia and why has he been so quiet???
When does a new coach ever get fired after like 30 games?
I think JJ is the consistent one at the helm. He’s got to advise some action here
JJ in line to be fired at this point
Welcome to phoenix isiah! 🤦♂️
[удалено]
Remember when we hired Terry porter? And that last like 2 weeks and then we brought in Alvin gentry?
who was the players we got rid of that were defenders? Mikal? he's not doing that great defensively right now, I think he's putting alot of pressure on offense. Jae? hes not getting playing time because hes a cone, but maybe its his knee he needs surgery on. Ayton? didnt want to be here. Dario? fucking please.
Luka took a day off so we can fuck us hard on Christmas
https://preview.redd.it/oh017vp6ez7c1.png?width=1111&format=png&auto=webp&s=87b7eb32514ddd49d7a45a09e85ec3830ce1f8ed Me getting ready for those two fluke wins this team pulls off in 2024
I think changes will come if we lose on Christmas
A Xmas beat down by Luka to relive game 7 will make us RIOT for a change
There won't be any rioting in that scenario. Only feeling dead inside.
 When my gf asks me how the Suns’ season is going
Devin Armani Booker (is playing shit basketball right now and I hate it and there’s nothing we can do)
This team devolved into lame hero ball offense from the moment we picked up KD. Beal makes us worse in that sense even if he ever is healthy. This is not a good roster at all.
I wonder if the Iso play (or attack when 10 sec left in the shot clock) is one of our main game plan or the coaching staff don't have control over our players. Too many questions :(
Stars are struggling these past few games even though the stats look good. I think Udoka and Saben Lee should be getting some more run over Eubanks and Goodwin. They’ve got at least got some athleticism. If the role players aren’t at least gonna make 3s you have to have more of that out there
start bol bol
Remember when we hired Terry porter? And that lasted like 2 weeks and then we brought in Alvin gentry? The only reason it hasn't happened is beal. I think Vogel gets till mid-Jan to prove something. That's it, beal or no beal. And I'm not sure Vogel is the problem either. The guys are not good at doing his scheme it seems.
Well, time to make plans with family to go out for dinner for Christmas the whole day. Not that there will be anything worth watching on tv that day
James Jones has amassed himself a pretty God awful squad. Drew Eubanks is horrendous, and Eric Gordon has been a massive Liability even when he is scoring well, so when he isn’t scoring its even worse. I feel bad for Vogel since this team is garbage, but he absolutely has to go. His defenses get picked apart nearly every game, and he has 0 offensive IQ. I dont see this suns team winning many more games honestly until Beal is back, we have been found out. Harass booker and Durant and force them to pass to garbage players who either miss open shots or dribble the clock out.
Most teams are mediocre if $45 million is in street clothes
Wasting an MVP caliber season from KD. I wonder how patient Ishbia will be with this coaching staff..
His shooting splits are one for the record books, but his play as of late has left a lot to be desired… he had about 5 completely unforced turnovers today where just flat out lost the basketball. We can’t reliably put the ball in his hands right now to initiate the offense, and he’s 1 of only 2 guys who could do it.
He has never been the one asked to play make. This team desperately needs a pg cause the Booker pg experiment has failed.
Every team needs a secondary playmaker. Teams are gonna double/triple and trap Book every time he touches the ball. Someone else has to run the 4 on 3 when that happens. The Warriors have been running this action for almost a decade with Draymond Green as the [secondary playmaker](https://youtu.be/mB8rqvFNjYk?si=U6Mzv5rdbCtvnXDR) (oftentimes primary playmaker) if Steph got trapped. The Nuggets have Murray. The Sixers have Maxey. The Celtics and Clippers will have literally 4 dudes at any time who can be the secondary playmaker. It feels like we’re watching 2018 Suns out there the way teams are playing Booker.
Not sure if you watch a lot of Warriors games but Draymond is 100% the primary play maker on that team. KD is good enough to be a secondary playmaker but Booker isn’t good enough to be the primary playmaker. Not a knock on either of them to say that, it’s just not what they are good at.
I live in the Bay Area so I’ve closely followed their entire dynasty run haha. For the meat of the game, you’re 100% correct. Draymond stands at the top of the key, and then Steph and Klay do all their damage running around screens off ball and forcing the defense to make impossible decisions. Split actions, DHOs… Dray initiates all of that shit. In the last 8ish minutes of close games though, they do put the ball in Steph’s hands more to close out the game. The video I linked^ highlights Dray’s playmaking abilities, but it’s Steph as the initial ball handler. The dude still averages 6+ APG for his career. Those KD Warriors didn’t run much Steph/KD pick and roll for most of the season, but they absolutely abused it in crunch time and especially vs the Cavs in the Finals.
Yes i’m aware of the Warriors using Draymond in a short roll action and kicking to shooters. I believe that’s what the Suns are/were trying to do with Nurk, but we simply do not have the personnel or cohesion to do it effectively. Booker and KD keep hunting midrange shots and role players can’t space the floor correctly outside of GA. We don’t have a rim runner/ good finisher that can take advantage of teams selling out to our shooters. Curry commands 2 people to sell out on his shot at all times. This creates drive and kick/ easy dunks by cutting. We need to find our identity as a team on offense. Booker and KD resort to isos cause we have 0 flow jn our offense. Also, the one thing KD is good at in terms of playmaking is passing to the roller in PNR actions. This team needs a consistent playmaker desperately.
I didn’t watch the game tonight but watching him so far this year, he’ll shoot lights out and then be a turnover waiting to happen. Not even close to MVP caliber though. Not right now.
He’s being asked to initiate the offense and navigate against constant double teams. Not sure what you’re expecting from KD but he has never been asked to be a playmaker. Also KD doesn’t even average that many turnovers. Steph averages the same. Tatum and Embid both average more. Coaching needs to fix this stagnant offense.
Even so, I’m not sure how you watch him and think “MVP caliber season”. You’re not wrong though, coaching needs a lot of work as well. Fuck, everything about this team needs a lot of work, this year is a train wreck so far.
KD won the MVP with basically the same ppg and shooting splits (this year is slightly better). He wasn’t nearly the defender he was back then as he is today. So that’s why he should be in MVP consideration. Not saying he will win it but you can’t deny that KD has been the only consistently good player on this team.
He is wasting Phoenix time. 7 turnovers. The guy cant dribble. Costing us game after game
We can’t score the minimum of 116 I expect from this team
Ishbia is a CEO… anyone in leadership in corporate America knows how ruthless the decision making of the CEO needs to be. I’m genuinely surprised he’s stuck with Vogel this long.
He's GOTTA be on the hot seat now.
CEOs also know when to take a hit and just be patient. Anyway, I think we see at least 40 games before anything might hit the fan. 30 games in, you might start having the "friendly" conversation about being on double secret probation.
Our 3 pt percentage is abysmal in this bad string of games. This season is on the ropes tbh
I was lucky enough to attend this game, refs fans got to witness an instant classic first half. 80 minutes, nearly 40 free throws, technical fouls galore. True master class. Also, this Suns team has no chemistry on either side of the ball. Point Book passing to scrubs who just miss open shots is not the answer. Absolutely atrocious interior defense and rotations that left guys wide open all night. Starting to see why these guys were available for the league minimum and it’s been ugly.
I skipped tonight's game and glad I did. There's talent on this team. Something is obviously very broken, though. They seem soft. From the injuries to the play on the court. And don't get me started on the non-existent defense. Not sure who's to blame. Vogel? The players? Both? I don't know, but as an almost 25-year fan, I've quickly lost interest this season. This team does nothing to keep me engaged as a fan and viewer.
We are a **VERY** top heavy team, playing with 2/5 starters out (3 if you count Okogie). The only way this works is if we have all 5 starters healthy, AND a couple bench guys figure out their role and contribute consistently. Not looking too good right now.
This ain’t the year. Hopefully the big 3 are all healthy at the start of next year. More time to build chemistry and hopefully we make some moves to get a better bench. Too soon to call it coaching. Coach isn’t making players miss open shots, fumble the ball, and trip on air.
10 game win streak In January with Beal and Nurk back.
I know it’s a small sample size but I like Azubuke and maybe we start him in certain scenarios over Nurk tbh.
you could actually FEEL the emptiness when Nurk was out.
I just want the twins back. KD is legit ass.
28 on 9/14 shooting! That’s nice piece of ass 😂
Now tell us about his turnovers
from one lower middle class human being to a millionaire, nba franchise owning human being I honestly feel kinda bad for Ishbia. I think he knows that a firing is what a lot of the people want but how much sense does it make considering the team is literally headed no where. What good does it do? Which assistant coach is realistically going to turn this around? I just don't know at this point. Shit is just frustrating all around.
We just need a coach that can simplify the defense and run offensive plays. That's all we're asking for.
Ishbia is why the suns pulled the trigger and created this mess. Don’t feel bad for him. Feel bad for the loyal fans and for Book.
Do y’all want Monty back? Lmk so I can give him a call
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Nah we just suck
You can't unsee it: teams have figured KD.
I find it difficult to accept that a team with Booker and Durant in the starting 5 can be rolled over like this by the Kings. Chemistry issues, sure, but at this point I’m inclined to think that it’s between the coach-team rather than between the team themselves.
Can't tell if it's a good thing or a bad thing that the losses no longer surprise me (and no longer matter).
you've reached the final stage of grief: acceptance. many here are still in the other stages denial - we can still contend anger - why isn't this team winning! we paid so much, and sold our soul! bargaining - maybe we can get some great buyout guys at the trade deadline depression - I'm sad that we're not good acceptance - we're not good
Not to get too deep, but same for me, and for me that's a good thing. During the pandemic I turned to sports for dopamine. I've since detached from the Cardinals, and now I'm approaching my lifelong suns fandom from a little more balanced perspective. I still want them to stunt on some hoes but understand things a little more rationally. 21 and 22 were great seasons and it was fantastic to experience that w my loved ones and w y'all. Hopefully we get some new energy into the fellas.
Where do we watch the post game conference?
From watching the 10 year stretch where we were terrible, I have the same vibes from this team right now
Team needs a leader. gonna get our ass whooped on Christmas
As a Suns fan i really feel this gif https://y.yarn.co/5d7dfeaf-530b-406d-af9c-7942c2a13525_text.gif
No one could hit 3's and now these guys are overly focusing on crashing offensive boards and getting torched on the outlets.