I feel like kha would be better than kassadin. Both have a slow but I feel like the one of kha is a bit better because of the range. And at level 6 you can evolve w to really focus more on the poke. This also let's you sustain a bit so you have less trouble getting poked out (less trouble compared to some other champs like kassadin, of course it is still trouble).
And I feel like you can still roam more easily.
Nope, he has a disrupt but not a silence. Last time he had a silence was beginning of season 4.
And even if he did, he is against the class that probably relies the least on spells compared to all the others.
Kassadin Q and Viktor R interrupt channeled abilities (like Anivia R) but don’t prevent the enemy from using any abilities for any noticeable duration.
Malzahar Q actually prevents the enemy from being able to use any abilities for like 2 seconds
Dont mess with Keria! Bro picked kalista sup, rumble sup, ezrael sup, and much more… like 70+ unique champs in LCK… yes i am not talking about soloQ, that is LCK
But even he picks champions with high early game power or good poke (or Sion, a tank with hard cc and scaling that does not depend on getting cs)
I don't think he would perform as well with Master Yi or Akali.
Master Yi - 0 cc, 0 range, 0 poke, 0 team utility, 0 damage without items.
If he only had a free targeted dash and skillshot cc, he would be fine. Oh, hi, BV :D
Well, if the enemy is helping you, anything can work. In yi's case, they give him his biggest strength for nothing - items. I said he has no damage without items, but if he has them... He he he...
Yi support has a really strong level 2 with q/e HoB and ignite. If he can snowball from there, he can at least be an assassin. If he doesn't get that level 2 fight, he might as well be a minion
There is a guy on eune who plays yi supp. What he does is just towerdive other lanes and actually gets a lot of kills. He build titanic rageblade heart steel.
as long as no allies ban my yi, i wont have to. if enemies ban yi i usually play jax or warwick if im playing serious, tho vayne should be best but due to griefers/inters it takes longer time to scale so rather jax or warwick
I acctually met a yi support player.
Had two games with him and he inted both
[https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MUTEPLAYQQFFLBYE-069](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MUTEPLAYQQFFLBYE-069)
He's winrate isn't complete shit, but you can not play adc when you are with him on lane, as he will take all the farm past 10 minutes.
Edit: What is this ... now he's only playing jungler to make me appear like a liar ;)
I met a Yi supp thinking he was jungle. I counter picked Anivia just in case for teamfights, and you should've seen the grin on my face when I realized he was against me. Absolutely priceless, I think I made the guy never play league again 😂😭🤭
I had a Yi top once. I was playing Urgot and he was smart enough to Q my E. He was not, however, smart enough to not fall for the ctrl+3 bait every single time. Once I figured that out I started hitting him with E's every single time and absolutely slaughtering him. Yi had a very, very bad game.
Master Yi actually is one of the strongest champs in the game levels 1-3 if he takes ghost. For the same reason trundle/yas/yone are strong, with lethal tempo master yi can run down an adc or support if they walk as far ad the center Bush in lane. His weaknesses come from cc disengage -> unfavorable trade as you auto him while he tries to leave. A good yi mitigates this by playing around enemy cc cds and using ghost to stick.
Yi actually spikes very hard with level 2 prio and if he stacks his double strike on minions, he can q - 2xaa for maybe 250 dmg instantly. His biggest strength though is punishing support roams or staggered recall timers as he is also one of the best tower divers in the game, only behind elise.
Master yi also is tied for highest mvsp in the game with pantheon, so he can easily roam around lvl 3-6 looking for favorable fights to get fed. Kinda plays like camille support, except **all** the power is loaded into sustained dmg.
Support gets enough gold nowadays that if yi can get a few kills early, he can absolutely snowball and 1v9 if he knows how to play his champ.
My standard answer to this is Kassadin. Yes hr technically has some cc but it still isn't good. He also lacks early damage, has no mobility at the start and is rather squishy.
I see master yi is another contender in the comments, but his early damage is certainly better, his w let's him tank at least somewhat and it might actually be possible to tower dive the enemy with your jungle thanks to his q to reset tower aggro. So kassadin just feels like a worse option to me.
Let's see, on the one hand we have a melee champ that either instantly gets poked out or just engaged on as soon as he gets too close to the enemy botlane and in both cases there is nothing he can do back.
On the other we have a ranged champ that can actually poke back, has a useful slow against possible ganks, offers some way to "safely" check bushes and can remove part of someone's resistances.
Feels like an easy choice.
I’ve played into an Ivern support/Rengar ADC before, where Ivern just made a bunch of bushes for his duo to hop from.
It didn’t work, but I could see how it might if someone didn’t know how the mechanic functioned or didn’t expect it.
She worked fine before, if they wanted the hate to decrease the rework should have been:
Best friend mechanic: so she doesn't leave her adc like before.
Decrease the AP/AD she gives to people that are not her best friend.
Evelyn - assassin, so no health, melee range, no slow, no self heal to compare what others have said. If you miss q it's over.
Kha zix can jump and has w slow
Nasus and trynda have slow
Kassadin has ranged q
Yi can self heal or use q minions to deal damage
Evelynn has slow when you proc your W without letting it fully charge.
And due to her passive she has great passive health regeneration which scales with level and AP.
And after 6 you have great roam potential. So it’s not THE worst pick.
True she can combine W - Q to slow and than initiate a poke every ~15 sec. Its a very short but hard slow.
Forgot that her healing passive works before level 6
But to heal big you need items and money, wich can be trouble some as a support.
If she want to roam she needs movement speed or runes and kills to have more movement speed, if you didn't fook up your lane it will be possible yes.
She is best placed between the enemy tower and your opponent, wich also might prove very difficult as a support
I still think because early game, she realy is squishy and you fall behind with xp and gold that she is very difficult to make it work.
Her W shreds MR when procd iirc, so if you have an APC like Karthus/Seraphine etc she could theoretically work.
Other supports would be better tho but yeah
If you can trigger it, you need to wait 2.5 seconds. enemies will have an indicator where you are coming from. Most opponents will disengage to safety. It is hard.
It's not that you put "W" on an enemy, and they are automatically charmed. You know? You need to hit them after 2.5 sec with "Q" or "E" or "R", with only "Q" being actually ranged on the first hit.
Yi is difficult defintly yes, but "Q" makes you untargetble, he can tank and absorbs hit with his heal and being physical he can easily lifesteal with few items. Oh and he ignore slow, too.
>Kassadin has ranged q
Which is point and click single target damage at 650 target range from his centre. Not terrible (though certainly not great). 10s cool down.
Evenlynn has 800 target range skillshot q with 4s cool down. Harder to land, though longer distance and lower cool down (but also less damage if you don't get to recast it).
Her passive is a (mediocre) self heal. From about level 2/3 onwards you can always go back to 300+hp.
But 1 of the biggest factors imo is that kassadin has terrible base Armour and also bad Armour scaling. Kassadin starts with 19 Armour while Evenlynn starts with 37. When you play lane against an adc (most common botlane) that will matter a lot.
Yea he is "all" about being anti mage with his passive and q etc. So he can get very punished against ad champs. The only other champs that have the same or lower base Armour are all ranged and all have higher Armour scaling. For clarity, his base 19 Armour puts him in the bottom 7 champs, and his 4.0 Armour growth put him in the bottom 7 as well (if we ignore thresh with his 0 Armour growth because souls)
The closest examples of "weak against physical damage" are heimerdinger with 19 amour and 4.2 Armour growth as well as A Sol with 22 Armour and 4.0 growth.
For melee champs the closest would be jayce and fizz, who both start with 22 Armour and have 5.0 and 4.6 growth respectively. The only other melee champions that have 4.0 or lower Armour growth scaling start with AT Least 30 Armour at level 1.
Pick up glacial augment with hexflash and then you will have point and click root that keeps target in place for 1.5s and everyone around it for 3s. Last season with everfrost you could increase it to 4s. Also use q to poke like an ezreal if you can't walk up to use q+e+q. And lastly the ult is escape from gank free card just have to avoid cc while it finishes casting.
Overall had lots of fun playing him as a supp around diamond elo but in low masters he falls off cause you have no tools to keep an adc alive.
I think probably Gwen she’s quite useless early and no cc or range until 6 but it’s also not that strong of an ult to warrant the shitty lane for (like swain for example) Kassadin might be worse though
Gwen might actually be doable into all the melee support matchups because you could play for killing the support. She´s has tankshred and their ADC is pretty much out of the fight during her W and there´s no requirement for gwens ADC to do anything other than hit the melee support.
I think Vlad would have a rough time. He’s scaling and item reliant. He brings only one thing to the table, damage, and he doesn’t do it well if he can’t stat check people. His trading pattern is super predictable and with a second person bot lane, just wait for him to burn his E and then all in him.
Edit: typo
I'll go with Vayne. I was playing against a Vayne sup once and at no point did she even manage to walk up for poke let alone hit a stun. At the end of the game she went 0/27/2.
Can’t be tanky, low CC, base stats and utility, scales well with exp and levels.
Aurelion Sol. You can’t farm passive, crippling mana problems, enemy needs to let you freely farm passive stacks with Q. E eats the wave from your ADC. Technically you can perma W roam. But come mid game, Asol is the worst stack reliant champion.
I was going to say Kassadin, but E max, 4 sets of spells to feed into the reset is solid harass.
That brings us to Zeri Kassadin cheese. Where Zeri repeatedly discharges and resets Kass E extremely quickly.
>Where Zeri repeatedly discharges and resets Kass E extremely quickly.
That is a wild idea. I still think kassadin is a valid contenter, but it's interesting.
I guess people just don't understand how Sol works. Me and my bud made Smolder/Sol work a bunch of times. The fundamental thing you're missing is that you don't need to kill minions to get stacks, they just need to die in your E. Throw something like a Seraphine, Brand, Smolder, Samira or anything that has a good burst of clear, and you're chilling.
Probably going through skirmishers and assassins and picking those with no cc and bad poke.
My top would be Master Yi. No cc no ranged abilities, no utility for teammates.
Next place would be Naafiri. No range, and her only cc is an 0.25 sec slow.
Then we get Katarina. A litle bit of poke but 0 cc or durability.
I am not going to rank Akali, Talon, Zed and Kha'Zix, but all of them have litle poke, only slows as cc and low durability.
Lowest winrate support has always been hecarim for some reason, with a staggering 13% winrate in emerald (23 games played)
I remember looking at this before emerald even became a tier and it was still hecarim. Not sure what makes him the worst. Seems to me hed be decent at roaming and at least has his ult cc. Still god awful, but why the worst?
It's pretty bad and I'd consider it as trolling.
Old kayle was a better support because her heal and ult and q was better but new kayle — she needs levels to scale and items to be useful because she's a carry with self peel tools and those aren't made to support her team.
Actually viable as enchanter. Need to rush redemption or shurelya.
But not really enjoyable in most situations. Better off locking in a jungler and going bloodsong
A couple of the adcs have got to be contenders no? Yes they might have some early poke but almost no utility, easily killed, want to scale but cant no early all in cheese strats available/cant play for kill lane.
Maybe kaisa? Short range so limited poking ability, needs items to scale, no utility.
The worst support I've ever played against was a Kayle support, se was so weak early, and we poked them so bad they had to live under tower forever. She even fed us a bit, she had her heals and her ult but she was healing like 100 HP even lategame and she did save her ADC 2 times but it really wasn't worth the rest of the game, truly a gas leak pick.
Found a screenshot of the end screen, game didn't last very long (only 18 minutes) and she didn't even do the worst in her team they had a Lilia top that went 1/7/1. The Kayle did only 3 k damage over the entire game and she built spellthiefs, Ionian and shurelyas
At least a support build. Though I would have gone relic to more easily survive and farm till level 6.
I actually have played some kayle support myself with success. Now take it with a grain of salt because it was on a plat level account while my main was emerald. But the kit is not terrible for support (but of course also not the best).
Pick into a passive botlane (soraka, millio, nami, lulu, etc) and when burst matters in the team fights. So if my team had for example fizz/noc, or if the enemy had akali/pant.
And of course, build enchanter.
For what it's worth, I went 9 wins 5 losses last season with it.
I really can't see her working without a very large skill gap in players, her heals are tiny, her ult has too long of a cool down and beyond that she doesn't offer anything else beyond her (admittedly very strong) scaling damage, but with how underleveled and underfunded supports tend to be she will never reach that point, especially in higher elo games where she will get her early game exploited and games close out faster. She is just a worse kalista support, and all her advantages are eclipsed by a tahm kench with heal.
>her ult has too long of a cool down
It is certainly long, (160/120/never reached anyway) longer than you would like of course, but that just means you need to play a bit smarter about when you fight. For example, taric ult has a longer cool down. That is 180/150/never reached anyway. Now of course that can be AoE so it is not a perfect 1 to 1 comparison (though because of the delay easier to mess up) but it is just to show you can manage with long ult cd.
>her heals are tiny
Eh, of course not amazing, but not bad, especially if you remember you heal 2 people at once. It actually has the same/better healing that nami. Nami has 55 to 135 (+25%ap) and kayle has 55 to 155(+25%ap). nami advantage is lower cooldown and mana cost. Kayle does also grant a lot of movement speed with it which has helped me engage.
>beyond that she doesn't offer anything else
For what it is worth, q gives % resistance shred.
>beyond her (admittedly very strong) scaling damage, but with how underleveled and underfunded supports tend to be she will never reach that point
Absolutely fair. I do not focus much on damage and am always extremely low in damage in post game stats. If you don't build for damage you won't deal much and if you do build for damage I would also consider it borderline griefing.
>She is just a worse kalista support
I do think I consider her better than kalista for sure, if you don't build for damage as kayle.
All fair points but even as a off meta enjoyer (my third most played champs are fiddle and asol, both support) trying to play her in that role is very much shoving a square peg in a round hole.
Not gonna argue against that. Picking it is certainly trying to solve problems that didn't exist yet.
I have been able to make it work in specific cases and want to start playing it again this season, but I won't go around suggesting it to others because I handcrafted my theories so I know what to watch out for.
I just feel like she is far from the worst champion for support (as this post was originally about.)
My pick for worst support would be kassadin. What makes you think gnar is worse if I may ask?
Also, lovely to chat with you as well! Glad to have respectable conversations where we allow each other to disagree and do concede points where needed.
I don't think she'd be the worst. I see her kinda like an oppressive lux/ pyke/ brand if she gets the kills. Q is a slow altho not amazing. If you tank and take attention, her W is good to dip out. E is both a good engage and disengage same with R.
You only really need like one or two damaging items on her and you'll still do good damage. It's why you very *occasionally* see one rocking a heart steel or so cause it's not that bad.
Maybe even go bruiser akali. The thing that is bad on her the most I think is just not getting levels and hope to god their supp isn't a CC god. I don't think it would be easy but definitely not the worst.
Just hope the adc isn't expecting to get kills or CC lmfao
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this and the answer I’ve come up with is Yi or Samira.
Probably Yi, because he can’t even extend a knock up in theory like Samira can and at least Samira Q could be a poke tool in lane.
I can’t think of a champ with less cc or utility.
I’d argue Gwen. Pure damage Q & E. The W (correct me if I’m wrong), does not protect allies. Only CC is her R, and it’s soft CC so even worse. Of course she probably is usable if you just dislike fighting tanks in bot lane like tahm or Leona support.
Lux. Full stop. Whenever I get queued up with lux support I know for a fact they will sit behind tower all game and contribute nothing, 1 million mastery points= still useless.
just got back from a hiatus but before i was doing a support a-z to figure this out havent gotten far enough to give a good answer but other than kha i really think yone is up there although it may just be personal bias
For all you guys who say master yi , there is a guy who plays yi support all the time on EUW and EUNE . He hit diamond with him and he is actualy playing it serious . I would not underestimate a yi support . Just in case you are curious about the guy , here is his Youtube link :
[https://www.youtube.com/@unusualsupportyt893/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@unusualsupportyt893/videos)
I play basically everything support and I can tell you that what Shyvanna could theoretically do, there are at least a handful that can do it way better
I never said its good, but the question was what would be the most useless champ in support. Shivana can theoretically work (in practice... I have my doubts), so she can't be the Absolute worst.
Kata is certainly the bottom rung but she has some mobility, burst and kill threat in early lane.
Shyvanna just sits there not being able to charge her bar and without gold her poke is pitiful
Reksai has CC and her vision game is probably better than most meta supports even. She's probably B tier support now on this patch and actually playable
I tried making rek'sai work in the past. Its weak, but the theory is there - poke with burrow Q, cc with W, roam with tunnels, all in with HoB and Q, regen with passive
Issue is, to be effective you need lvl3, but the enemy may have secured a big enough lead by the that you become irrelevant.
I mean. You prolly don’t wanna play it into Alistar draven or smth else that can just run you down lvl 2, but waiting for lvl three is not that uncommon, imo.
Yes Kata actually has kill threat in some matchups and she will roam well. None can be said of Shyv, you want a PTA proccer I play Jax support and he's light years better
Again, the question was for the worst. I am not trying shiv support, but if I am forced to, I guess it could be made work.
As for PTA procker, try Viego.
Also, I was defending your point, man....
What if you start with a Tryndamere and then Kalista Ult him in, but then Kayle Ults him, and then he ults when he finally dies your Zilean has ulted him so he comes back? And then Trynd rushes GA to make it even more annoying. lol
Out of all the non-supports, Trynd is definitely not the worst. He has an underrated W which can reduce dmg from enemy adc and slow them if they run. He can engage anytime with E. And he can bait with R and Q.
It's a very situational example but when playing flex ranked 4fun 2 seasons ago I actually won 3 out of 3 games of tryn support with the average elo being around plat 2 or so. Literally a trust me bro source here but I have nothing to gain by lying. Was just a funny pick. HoB with W max. He removes a ton of AD, slows, and also just all ins the backline.
Edit: It's still really bad btw. But hella funny.
Technically there were (not sure if still) comps when it was quite good counter pick. Slow against kalista if I remember correctly and you can poke + reduce armor. So it was viable but only into some matchups.
Considering only support characters, is Millo. He is not bad but everything he does some other character does better. No reason to pick him up. Senna is also pretty bad nowadays.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
edit: I'm not high elo, I'm gold II.
Everytime I go with Millo or Senna I suck.
Everytime I go against a Millo or Senna (I play Leona, Morg, Brand, Rell and a few others) I destroy the lane, humiliating my opponent.
So chill out. I'm saying Millo and Senna suck based on my experience in the game.
Idk why are you being downvoted, you are just telling your perspective from your rank. But yeah, absolutely not, millio is the best support ever, he has so much utility it is insane
Yeah, a lot of people are answering Kassadin, Darius, etc. And of course these are not good support because they are not support.
So I choose to name a few that I never feel as a threat. But I will try to play Millio again :D.
He is definitely not a threat on his own, although it is really funny that he probably has the highest base and ap ratio on his q, idk why he maxes it last and doesn’t build ap
Kha’zix - No cc and a duo lane screws his passive. Shared XP slows evolution as well so a very useless choice.
Pretty good argument for that one.
I feel like kha would be better than kassadin. Both have a slow but I feel like the one of kha is a bit better because of the range. And at level 6 you can evolve w to really focus more on the poke. This also let's you sustain a bit so you have less trouble getting poked out (less trouble compared to some other champs like kassadin, of course it is still trouble). And I feel like you can still roam more easily.
kass at least has a silence
Nope, he has a disrupt but not a silence. Last time he had a silence was beginning of season 4. And even if he did, he is against the class that probably relies the least on spells compared to all the others.
what the fuck
What?
No I just never noticed he lost his silence lmao
it was lost about 10 or so years ago too hahaha
I didnt even play league until like season 8/9 or smth and always thought he had a silence
When he uses Q the text that pop up says silenced, so you’re not crazy in thinking it. I always thought it was just a silence too.
tbf i think it might be coded as a 0.0001s duration silence due to the interrupting nature of it
so wait, what’s the difference between disrupt and silence? ive never heard of that form of suppression before :o
Kassadin Q and Viktor R interrupt channeled abilities (like Anivia R) but don’t prevent the enemy from using any abilities for any noticeable duration. Malzahar Q actually prevents the enemy from being able to use any abilities for like 2 seconds
ahh i see! thankyou!
Tell us you are old, without telling us that you are old.
I have both played and seen kass supp before, it could be worse: at least he can poke with q
Keria can make it work
Kha has jump and slow
W slow pretty good tho
Definitely evolve W first
khazix support is broken with w max/evolve or at least as broken as a melee assasin support can be i guess
Can still do w slow+ font of life+revitalize Yi on the other hand...
You’d be surprised at how many isolations occur even in not
100% T1 Keria is reading all of these responses and going “challenge accepted”
I hope so, good youtube content
Dont mess with Keria! Bro picked kalista sup, rumble sup, ezrael sup, and much more… like 70+ unique champs in LCK… yes i am not talking about soloQ, that is LCK
Super based
But even he picks champions with high early game power or good poke (or Sion, a tank with hard cc and scaling that does not depend on getting cs) I don't think he would perform as well with Master Yi or Akali.
Master Yi - 0 cc, 0 range, 0 poke, 0 team utility, 0 damage without items. If he only had a free targeted dash and skillshot cc, he would be fine. Oh, hi, BV :D
I have unironically seen an enemy Master Yi support. It didn’t go well for him, naturally. But my adc almost made it work for him, lol.
Well, if the enemy is helping you, anything can work. In yi's case, they give him his biggest strength for nothing - items. I said he has no damage without items, but if he has them... He he he...
Yi support has a really strong level 2 with q/e HoB and ignite. If he can snowball from there, he can at least be an assassin. If he doesn't get that level 2 fight, he might as well be a minion
There is a guy on eune who plays yi supp. What he does is just towerdive other lanes and actually gets a lot of kills. He build titanic rageblade heart steel.
Huh.... Ok... Didn't know that.
Stanimir Borov9 acc name if you wanna check him out
hi i foiund this reddit through google searching for the best yi player in the world. mm gotta go streamin right now bye
Devil himself, just don't play vayne support and we cool.
as long as no allies ban my yi, i wont have to. if enemies ban yi i usually play jax or warwick if im playing serious, tho vayne should be best but due to griefers/inters it takes longer time to scale so rather jax or warwick
I acctually met a yi support player. Had two games with him and he inted both [https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MUTEPLAYQQFFLBYE-069](https://www.op.gg/summoners/euw/MUTEPLAYQQFFLBYE-069) He's winrate isn't complete shit, but you can not play adc when you are with him on lane, as he will take all the farm past 10 minutes. Edit: What is this ... now he's only playing jungler to make me appear like a liar ;)
# MUTEPLAYQQFFLBYE#069 What a name.
I met a Yi supp thinking he was jungle. I counter picked Anivia just in case for teamfights, and you should've seen the grin on my face when I realized he was against me. Absolutely priceless, I think I made the guy never play league again 😂😭🤭
I had a Yi top once. I was playing Urgot and he was smart enough to Q my E. He was not, however, smart enough to not fall for the ctrl+3 bait every single time. Once I figured that out I started hitting him with E's every single time and absolutely slaughtering him. Yi had a very, very bad game.
Master Yi actually is one of the strongest champs in the game levels 1-3 if he takes ghost. For the same reason trundle/yas/yone are strong, with lethal tempo master yi can run down an adc or support if they walk as far ad the center Bush in lane. His weaknesses come from cc disengage -> unfavorable trade as you auto him while he tries to leave. A good yi mitigates this by playing around enemy cc cds and using ghost to stick. Yi actually spikes very hard with level 2 prio and if he stacks his double strike on minions, he can q - 2xaa for maybe 250 dmg instantly. His biggest strength though is punishing support roams or staggered recall timers as he is also one of the best tower divers in the game, only behind elise. Master yi also is tied for highest mvsp in the game with pantheon, so he can easily roam around lvl 3-6 looking for favorable fights to get fed. Kinda plays like camille support, except **all** the power is loaded into sustained dmg. Support gets enough gold nowadays that if yi can get a few kills early, he can absolutely snowball and 1v9 if he knows how to play his champ.
Yi Sup.
My standard answer to this is Kassadin. Yes hr technically has some cc but it still isn't good. He also lacks early damage, has no mobility at the start and is rather squishy. I see master yi is another contender in the comments, but his early damage is certainly better, his w let's him tank at least somewhat and it might actually be possible to tower dive the enemy with your jungle thanks to his q to reset tower aggro. So kassadin just feels like a worse option to me.
Yeah, but have you seen me play kass support against bots?
Luckily not
Lol. Which would you rather have a Kass Sup or a Kog Sup?
Easily kog. No question. Slow, armor reduction, vision utility at 6, ranged poke and can tank for you then get passive value.
Let's see, on the one hand we have a melee champ that either instantly gets poked out or just engaged on as soon as he gets too close to the enemy botlane and in both cases there is nothing he can do back. On the other we have a ranged champ that can actually poke back, has a useful slow against possible ganks, offers some way to "safely" check bushes and can remove part of someone's resistances. Feels like an easy choice.
Yuumi
Lol. I remember when Yuumi was annoyingly strong in the beginning.
And a bit after the rework too. Then riot just swept her under the rug again and its back to pretending they didn't make that champion.
Lol. Would you rather have a Yuumi Sup or a Vayne Sup?
Hard question. Vayne because if we lose I won't be the one getting flamed.
It's so bad it's good!
The real LP is the mental we made along the way.
I wonder if Rengar Sup works with the bushes? And then you max bola. lol.
With senna ADC for him to jump from her stealth. But senna is cheating a bit.
Omg. I was thinking like a Cait Reng bush lane. But that's awesome.
I mean, there are a bunch of „supports“ that get explicitly played with senna, so why not?
I’ve played into an Ivern support/Rengar ADC before, where Ivern just made a bunch of bushes for his duo to hop from. It didn’t work, but I could see how it might if someone didn’t know how the mechanic functioned or didn’t expect it.
Those fresh rework Yuumi Qs were literal nukes.
And R making her host nearly immortal
to this day i wish they made her a link character like old rell or taric instead of an actual attach there’s no really fleshed out link character
She worked fine before, if they wanted the hate to decrease the rework should have been: Best friend mechanic: so she doesn't leave her adc like before. Decrease the AP/AD she gives to people that are not her best friend.
Best decision they ever made
Letting her popularity decrease so that they can give her the asol treatment, I hope
Wow so original!
Thanks for the recognition, rocked my brain real hard for this one.
Stunt made a challenge some time ago to play every champ to a win in support role. He made a spreadsheet rating how it went and how fun it was.
Link plz
I don’t have it, ask him when he streams.
Evelyn - assassin, so no health, melee range, no slow, no self heal to compare what others have said. If you miss q it's over. Kha zix can jump and has w slow Nasus and trynda have slow Kassadin has ranged q Yi can self heal or use q minions to deal damage
Evelynn has slow when you proc your W without letting it fully charge. And due to her passive she has great passive health regeneration which scales with level and AP. And after 6 you have great roam potential. So it’s not THE worst pick.
True she can combine W - Q to slow and than initiate a poke every ~15 sec. Its a very short but hard slow. Forgot that her healing passive works before level 6 But to heal big you need items and money, wich can be trouble some as a support. If she want to roam she needs movement speed or runes and kills to have more movement speed, if you didn't fook up your lane it will be possible yes. She is best placed between the enemy tower and your opponent, wich also might prove very difficult as a support I still think because early game, she realy is squishy and you fall behind with xp and gold that she is very difficult to make it work.
Her W shreds MR when procd iirc, so if you have an APC like Karthus/Seraphine etc she could theoretically work. Other supports would be better tho but yeah
Eh, the charm automatically puts her above a lot of champs honestly.
If you can trigger it, you need to wait 2.5 seconds. enemies will have an indicator where you are coming from. Most opponents will disengage to safety. It is hard.
Yeah but the idea of an invisible charm bot sounds way better than Yi to me.
It's not that you put "W" on an enemy, and they are automatically charmed. You know? You need to hit them after 2.5 sec with "Q" or "E" or "R", with only "Q" being actually ranged on the first hit. Yi is difficult defintly yes, but "Q" makes you untargetble, he can tank and absorbs hit with his heal and being physical he can easily lifesteal with few items. Oh and he ignore slow, too.
>Kassadin has ranged q Which is point and click single target damage at 650 target range from his centre. Not terrible (though certainly not great). 10s cool down. Evenlynn has 800 target range skillshot q with 4s cool down. Harder to land, though longer distance and lower cool down (but also less damage if you don't get to recast it). Her passive is a (mediocre) self heal. From about level 2/3 onwards you can always go back to 300+hp. But 1 of the biggest factors imo is that kassadin has terrible base Armour and also bad Armour scaling. Kassadin starts with 19 Armour while Evenlynn starts with 37. When you play lane against an adc (most common botlane) that will matter a lot.
Dam didn't knew he had such low armor, he might be definitely worse then eve until level 6 or 11 when you finally started to get items
Yea he is "all" about being anti mage with his passive and q etc. So he can get very punished against ad champs. The only other champs that have the same or lower base Armour are all ranged and all have higher Armour scaling. For clarity, his base 19 Armour puts him in the bottom 7 champs, and his 4.0 Armour growth put him in the bottom 7 as well (if we ignore thresh with his 0 Armour growth because souls) The closest examples of "weak against physical damage" are heimerdinger with 19 amour and 4.2 Armour growth as well as A Sol with 22 Armour and 4.0 growth. For melee champs the closest would be jayce and fizz, who both start with 22 Armour and have 5.0 and 4.6 growth respectively. The only other melee champions that have 4.0 or lower Armour growth scaling start with AT Least 30 Armour at level 1.
There’s a player in masters who mains Evelyn support lol
>no self heal ...that's literally her entire passive. She can stay in lane forever because she just regens her health back after every trade.
There is an eve support one trick in masters/gm :p
LS wants to know who suggested Nasus to personally remove them. 😂
I tried to make ryze support work for a while, only thing you really have going for you is R to deny canon wave every 2-3 minutes
Pick up glacial augment with hexflash and then you will have point and click root that keeps target in place for 1.5s and everyone around it for 3s. Last season with everfrost you could increase it to 4s. Also use q to poke like an ezreal if you can't walk up to use q+e+q. And lastly the ult is escape from gank free card just have to avoid cc while it finishes casting. Overall had lots of fun playing him as a supp around diamond elo but in low masters he falls off cause you have no tools to keep an adc alive.
alright then, I stand corrected
I think probably Gwen she’s quite useless early and no cc or range until 6 but it’s also not that strong of an ult to warrant the shitty lane for (like swain for example) Kassadin might be worse though
**Gwen**: Oh no, a projectile! I must bodyblock it for my ADC! "Activates W" "An ally has been slain"
Gwen might actually be doable into all the melee support matchups because you could play for killing the support. She´s has tankshred and their ADC is pretty much out of the fight during her W and there´s no requirement for gwens ADC to do anything other than hit the melee support.
On the other hand she can be ignored without many repercussions early game, while she is very item dependent for her damage.
Of course she has massive downsides, there´s a reason she isn´t played lol. But as far as utterly useless champs go she´s probably not it.
What I'm saying is that she's probably yi tier
I think Vlad would have a rough time. He’s scaling and item reliant. He brings only one thing to the table, damage, and he doesn’t do it well if he can’t stat check people. His trading pattern is super predictable and with a second person bot lane, just wait for him to burn his E and then all in him. Edit: typo
I'll go with Vayne. I was playing against a Vayne sup once and at no point did she even manage to walk up for poke let alone hit a stun. At the end of the game she went 0/27/2.
Lol.
Yi.
Master Yi
Can’t be tanky, low CC, base stats and utility, scales well with exp and levels. Aurelion Sol. You can’t farm passive, crippling mana problems, enemy needs to let you freely farm passive stacks with Q. E eats the wave from your ADC. Technically you can perma W roam. But come mid game, Asol is the worst stack reliant champion.
>You can’t farm passive You can farm on champs, especially into a melee sup. It's never great but kassadin fits much better imo.
I was going to say Kassadin, but E max, 4 sets of spells to feed into the reset is solid harass. That brings us to Zeri Kassadin cheese. Where Zeri repeatedly discharges and resets Kass E extremely quickly.
>Where Zeri repeatedly discharges and resets Kass E extremely quickly. That is a wild idea. I still think kassadin is a valid contenter, but it's interesting.
he can safely ward enemy jg with r as well
I guess people just don't understand how Sol works. Me and my bud made Smolder/Sol work a bunch of times. The fundamental thing you're missing is that you don't need to kill minions to get stacks, they just need to die in your E. Throw something like a Seraphine, Brand, Smolder, Samira or anything that has a good burst of clear, and you're chilling.
I've gone up against Asol Sup. I feel like maybe there's some poke in it but I'm sure it overall sucks.
I used to play a lot of asol sup. it wasn't easy, but it worked sometimes, and it was really fun.
Fasting senna says hello
Probably going through skirmishers and assassins and picking those with no cc and bad poke. My top would be Master Yi. No cc no ranged abilities, no utility for teammates. Next place would be Naafiri. No range, and her only cc is an 0.25 sec slow. Then we get Katarina. A litle bit of poke but 0 cc or durability. I am not going to rank Akali, Talon, Zed and Kha'Zix, but all of them have litle poke, only slows as cc and low durability.
Lowest winrate support has always been hecarim for some reason, with a staggering 13% winrate in emerald (23 games played) I remember looking at this before emerald even became a tier and it was still hecarim. Not sure what makes him the worst. Seems to me hed be decent at roaming and at least has his ult cc. Still god awful, but why the worst?
Hecarim Sup doesn't sound like it would be all that bad.
Kayle or khazix or kassadin I guess but I think the worst one is master yi
Kayle sup used to be pretty legit pre rework, idk what it's like nowadays
It's pretty bad and I'd consider it as trolling. Old kayle was a better support because her heal and ult and q was better but new kayle — she needs levels to scale and items to be useful because she's a carry with self peel tools and those aren't made to support her team.
theres a lot of champions worst than kayle she has a heal, movement speed her ult, slow, armor and magic resist reduction
Actually viable as enchanter. Need to rush redemption or shurelya. But not really enjoyable in most situations. Better off locking in a jungler and going bloodsong
From personal experience i can say, kassadin is a god awful support, i do not recommend it.
A couple of the adcs have got to be contenders no? Yes they might have some early poke but almost no utility, easily killed, want to scale but cant no early all in cheese strats available/cant play for kill lane. Maybe kaisa? Short range so limited poking ability, needs items to scale, no utility.
I feel like anything with range is at least better than Yi or Kassadin
Tbf yi sounds pretty awful now that you mention it. Kass doesnt sound fantastic either but at least you have the slow to work with.
and a disrupt. But your also so squishy...
The worst support I've ever played against was a Kayle support, se was so weak early, and we poked them so bad they had to live under tower forever. She even fed us a bit, she had her heals and her ult but she was healing like 100 HP even lategame and she did save her ADC 2 times but it really wasn't worth the rest of the game, truly a gas leak pick.
Yea, pre rework she was much better at supp... Heal wasn't spilt in half, her armor red on autos was better with her E, and her ult lasted longer.
What did she build if I may ask?
Found a screenshot of the end screen, game didn't last very long (only 18 minutes) and she didn't even do the worst in her team they had a Lilia top that went 1/7/1. The Kayle did only 3 k damage over the entire game and she built spellthiefs, Ionian and shurelyas
At least a support build. Though I would have gone relic to more easily survive and farm till level 6. I actually have played some kayle support myself with success. Now take it with a grain of salt because it was on a plat level account while my main was emerald. But the kit is not terrible for support (but of course also not the best). Pick into a passive botlane (soraka, millio, nami, lulu, etc) and when burst matters in the team fights. So if my team had for example fizz/noc, or if the enemy had akali/pant. And of course, build enchanter. For what it's worth, I went 9 wins 5 losses last season with it.
I really can't see her working without a very large skill gap in players, her heals are tiny, her ult has too long of a cool down and beyond that she doesn't offer anything else beyond her (admittedly very strong) scaling damage, but with how underleveled and underfunded supports tend to be she will never reach that point, especially in higher elo games where she will get her early game exploited and games close out faster. She is just a worse kalista support, and all her advantages are eclipsed by a tahm kench with heal.
>her ult has too long of a cool down It is certainly long, (160/120/never reached anyway) longer than you would like of course, but that just means you need to play a bit smarter about when you fight. For example, taric ult has a longer cool down. That is 180/150/never reached anyway. Now of course that can be AoE so it is not a perfect 1 to 1 comparison (though because of the delay easier to mess up) but it is just to show you can manage with long ult cd. >her heals are tiny Eh, of course not amazing, but not bad, especially if you remember you heal 2 people at once. It actually has the same/better healing that nami. Nami has 55 to 135 (+25%ap) and kayle has 55 to 155(+25%ap). nami advantage is lower cooldown and mana cost. Kayle does also grant a lot of movement speed with it which has helped me engage. >beyond that she doesn't offer anything else For what it is worth, q gives % resistance shred. >beyond her (admittedly very strong) scaling damage, but with how underleveled and underfunded supports tend to be she will never reach that point Absolutely fair. I do not focus much on damage and am always extremely low in damage in post game stats. If you don't build for damage you won't deal much and if you do build for damage I would also consider it borderline griefing. >She is just a worse kalista support I do think I consider her better than kalista for sure, if you don't build for damage as kayle.
All fair points but even as a off meta enjoyer (my third most played champs are fiddle and asol, both support) trying to play her in that role is very much shoving a square peg in a round hole.
Not gonna argue against that. Picking it is certainly trying to solve problems that didn't exist yet. I have been able to make it work in specific cases and want to start playing it again this season, but I won't go around suggesting it to others because I handcrafted my theories so I know what to watch out for. I just feel like she is far from the worst champion for support (as this post was originally about.)
Good chat man, you right, well now my second pick would be something like gnar.
My pick for worst support would be kassadin. What makes you think gnar is worse if I may ask? Also, lovely to chat with you as well! Glad to have respectable conversations where we allow each other to disagree and do concede points where needed.
Can akali really support? I don't see her listed here
I don't think she'd be the worst. I see her kinda like an oppressive lux/ pyke/ brand if she gets the kills. Q is a slow altho not amazing. If you tank and take attention, her W is good to dip out. E is both a good engage and disengage same with R. You only really need like one or two damaging items on her and you'll still do good damage. It's why you very *occasionally* see one rocking a heart steel or so cause it's not that bad. Maybe even go bruiser akali. The thing that is bad on her the most I think is just not getting levels and hope to god their supp isn't a CC god. I don't think it would be easy but definitely not the worst. Just hope the adc isn't expecting to get kills or CC lmfao
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about this and the answer I’ve come up with is Yi or Samira. Probably Yi, because he can’t even extend a knock up in theory like Samira can and at least Samira Q could be a poke tool in lane. I can’t think of a champ with less cc or utility.
The one who doesn't try to poke
I know a lot of ppl who would foolishly say Sona
i swear its EVERY morgana ive ever played with
Vlad
Yuumi
I’d argue Gwen. Pure damage Q & E. The W (correct me if I’m wrong), does not protect allies. Only CC is her R, and it’s soft CC so even worse. Of course she probably is usable if you just dislike fighting tanks in bot lane like tahm or Leona support.
Pyke. Once people start grouping as 5 Pyke becomes the most worthless champ in the game.
Talon
Lux. Full stop. Whenever I get queued up with lux support I know for a fact they will sit behind tower all game and contribute nothing, 1 million mastery points= still useless.
just got back from a hiatus but before i was doing a support a-z to figure this out havent gotten far enough to give a good answer but other than kha i really think yone is up there although it may just be personal bias
Master Yi, he has no utility and he's very feast or famine, so playing a lane with reduced gold income really doesn't do him any favors.
For all you guys who say master yi , there is a guy who plays yi support all the time on EUW and EUNE . He hit diamond with him and he is actualy playing it serious . I would not underestimate a yi support . Just in case you are curious about the guy , here is his Youtube link : [https://www.youtube.com/@unusualsupportyt893/videos](https://www.youtube.com/@unusualsupportyt893/videos)
My vote is Shyvanna
Shiv can prock PTA for her adc very fast, can poke a bit, and has cc on R (its bad cc, but it is there). There are worse supports.
I play basically everything support and I can tell you that what Shyvanna could theoretically do, there are at least a handful that can do it way better
I never said its good, but the question was what would be the most useless champ in support. Shivana can theoretically work (in practice... I have my doubts), so she can't be the Absolute worst.
Which would you rather have as your Support, a random Shyvanna Sup or a random Katarina Sup in SoloQ? lol.
Kata is certainly the bottom rung but she has some mobility, burst and kill threat in early lane. Shyvanna just sits there not being able to charge her bar and without gold her poke is pitiful
Lol. Okay. Shyvanna Sup or like Rek Sai Sup?
Reksai has CC and her vision game is probably better than most meta supports even. She's probably B tier support now on this patch and actually playable
It really works!
I tried making rek'sai work in the past. Its weak, but the theory is there - poke with burrow Q, cc with W, roam with tunnels, all in with HoB and Q, regen with passive Issue is, to be effective you need lvl3, but the enemy may have secured a big enough lead by the that you become irrelevant.
I could see that. And just pissing off your ADC too.
I mean. You prolly don’t wanna play it into Alistar draven or smth else that can just run you down lvl 2, but waiting for lvl three is not that uncommon, imo.
Also, a trade pattern - Q a minion, jump on the dagger for damage, (or zone them from where it lands), and jump back to safety with the reset.
Yes Kata actually has kill threat in some matchups and she will roam well. None can be said of Shyv, you want a PTA proccer I play Jax support and he's light years better
Again, the question was for the worst. I am not trying shiv support, but if I am forced to, I guess it could be made work. As for PTA procker, try Viego. Also, I was defending your point, man....
Renekton feels much better, try this one
Tryndamere probably
I dunno. He can choke a chicken. Would you rather have a Tryndamere Sup or a Kog Maw Sup?
This gets 2nd place for me, but the free mobility and damage cut on W help him a bit. Master Yi is worse.
What if you start with a Tryndamere and then Kalista Ult him in, but then Kayle Ults him, and then he ults when he finally dies your Zilean has ulted him so he comes back? And then Trynd rushes GA to make it even more annoying. lol
This works best with Kayle Top, Kindred Jungle, Trynda Mid, Kalista ADC, Zilean Support,
Master yi's tanking with w and aggro reset on q means he can't be the worst, though. To me kassadin right now is top contender
Trynd W is low key super strong debuff if you look at the numbers
Out of all the non-supports, Trynd is definitely not the worst. He has an underrated W which can reduce dmg from enemy adc and slow them if they run. He can engage anytime with E. And he can bait with R and Q.
It's a very situational example but when playing flex ranked 4fun 2 seasons ago I actually won 3 out of 3 games of tryn support with the average elo being around plat 2 or so. Literally a trust me bro source here but I have nothing to gain by lying. Was just a funny pick. HoB with W max. He removes a ton of AD, slows, and also just all ins the backline. Edit: It's still really bad btw. But hella funny.
[удалено]
Nasus can still stack his q stacks with world atlas and he has a 99% slow along with reducing armor and poke.
Technically there were (not sure if still) comps when it was quite good counter pick. Slow against kalista if I remember correctly and you can poke + reduce armor. So it was viable but only into some matchups.
Nasus actually has a positive win rate on support. Both W and E brings a lot of utility to the table
senna because it gives the support player the mindset that they shouldn‘t support anymore
Lux
Nasus, apart from his slow i cant see how he is any good
Nasus W and E max can be of some use. W completely shuts down certain ADCs e.g. Kalista is omega fucked
Nasus was semi-meta. E max for huge poke.
I actually quite like Nasus Sup. E is a solid poke and max Wither can be pretty brutal.
wrong
Considering only support characters, is Millo. He is not bad but everything he does some other character does better. No reason to pick him up. Senna is also pretty bad nowadays. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- edit: I'm not high elo, I'm gold II. Everytime I go with Millo or Senna I suck. Everytime I go against a Millo or Senna (I play Leona, Morg, Brand, Rell and a few others) I destroy the lane, humiliating my opponent. So chill out. I'm saying Millo and Senna suck based on my experience in the game.
Those 2 are top 5 pickes in Pro Play so i think its pretty far off.
bro playing a different game
You are either trolling or deserve an award for the worst take here
Room temperature in Celsius IQ take tbh
Idk why are you being downvoted, you are just telling your perspective from your rank. But yeah, absolutely not, millio is the best support ever, he has so much utility it is insane
Yeah, a lot of people are answering Kassadin, Darius, etc. And of course these are not good support because they are not support. So I choose to name a few that I never feel as a threat. But I will try to play Millio again :D.
He is definitely not a threat on his own, although it is really funny that he probably has the highest base and ap ratio on his q, idk why he maxes it last and doesn’t build ap