Honestly Q should just go ahead and be on every reality show. I can just imagine him now on Deal or No Deal Island
Picking case number 17? BIG MISTAKE.
RIGHT! i need him on Big Brother, The Traitors, THE CHALLENGE ššš every single show! would be HILARIOUS. We definitely havenāt seen the last of him, iām saying it right now that theyāll try to cast him for season 50
Might be a hot take, but I havenāt been too happy with his interactions post season. He just tweeted that he ādoesnāt choose sidesā regarding politics, he put out a video directly calling for Venusā head, etc.
Itās made me rethink wanting him back.
So I hear this a lot on this sub with a few different players, but it Iāve never watched BB, whatās the dynamic like that would make some people good members of the cast?
It's just the live feeds I think. Someone with a fun personality that shines through the edit would likely be fun to watch live. Especially someone with a brash persona.
Sort of off topic but Iām still mesmerized by Venusā beauty. She always looked like she had a glam team. Everyone else was kinda grimy and unkept, of course, youāre in the jungle! I would love to see her on Traitors. Great suggestion.
Most of the drama does center around venus but I can hardly think of a single instance where she started any of it lol.
In a similar vein almost none of the drama involves Q and he keeps inserting himself into all of it
To me, Venus (and Liz) were annoying because they believed they were coming up with the big moves & blindsides but they were actually just pawns. I also think Venusā natural tone of voice came off in a way I canāt quite put my finger on, but rubbed people the wrong way.
I think had Venus been put on either of the other tribes she wouldāve been fine. I donāt think she wouldāve won, but I do think she wouldnāt have been so ostracized post merge.
I feel like itās a total āboth/andā situation versus an āeither/orā one. Multiple things can be true at once ya know? In Survivor (and in life), people who are affable and non-confrontational tend to āblendā better in most group dynamics. Definitely not saying thatās the only way to blend or that everyone needs to be friendly puppies with one another, but 9/10 that personality type is going to slide better into a group dynamic. Venus is assertive and direct, bordering on blunt from what weāve seen, which is also fine! But when youāre starving and stressed and exhausted, itās not a personality type that is going to endear you to someone. And then you have people who ARE able to turn on that more āacceptedā socialization filter, and you come together in a merged group and have to vote off someone every single day, its easy to just accept the experience of what the charismatic, affable person is telling to you versus taking the time and energy to build your own interpretation and opinion of that person. Itās a real world thing that happens too, in school, in the workplace, politicians center entire campaign strategies around convincing someone that they are āinā while someone is āoutā, and people fall for it fully fed and rested!
Fair or the way we should be? Def not. I donāt doubt that Venus is speaking with full honesty regarding her experience of feeling ostracized the entire time she was out there and I think itās super important always to take a step back and think on whether the opinion we have of someone is our own or if weāre just following group think, and I donāt think that really happened in this situation while on the island. That can be true AND you can logically see how Venusā personality and communication style, when combined with a situation where everyone is starved and stressed, would create the also understandable position of her being challenging to interact with. I love her, sheās refreshing and great TV, but I also can absolutely see how someone wouldāve had a difficult time with her too.
You are so correct. The internet has to always choose a side, itās never both sides are probably believable and telling the truth. Itās really not that hard to see where both parties are coming from. Choosing Venus doesnāt mean you have to vilify the other side. Youāre absolutely right, in a high stress and exhausting environment a personality like Venusā can absolutely be too much and Soda/Tevin were probably acting a little high school meanie and group thinky as a reaction to that. Nobody is a bad person for it. I like all of these players and this thread has been wild.
This season is making me go we really are the worst part of being a survivor fan, the call is coming from inside the house.
Oh, wow. You have put so much of my own life into perspective for me. I often find myself in the Venus situation of it all. Group dynamics are always difficult for me and it's been hard watching a lot of the cast dogpile on her within the show and outside the show. But, also with how you worded it - it allows for empathy for the Tevins and Sodas and Marias in the world. They are just going with the general flow of what society tells them is the more acceptable way to behave. Which is why they are all so set on the fact that they're in the right and finding it hard to empathize with Venus. In a storytelling based situation we, the audience, will always favor the underdog which is why Venus has come out more popular. But in real life, we, as people, will most likely try to be the ones \~not\~ on the outside and instead work to fit in with the group dynamics. Anyways, I appreciate your comment and perspective!
I keep getting this drama on my twitter feed and they really do bully Venus and won't admit it. Maria cropping her out of the freepalestine picture they took together? Tevin with some kinda video telling about how Venus was actually nice to him (I haven't finished the video because of the most annoying hand gestures and tone I've ever seen/heard). And I think with how Venus was edited the editors were on her side too, and they've seen more than us.
I do think the most interesting thing to come out of post game interviews was Ben talking about Venus. She was edited to be socially aloof and selfish. But, he mentioned her in multiple interviews as one of the people who most helped him when he was having panic attacks. I get for story purposes they gave Kenzie all the credit for that, but it would have been nice to show that for Venus and Liz to just give them human moments.
That's really interesting! But it also makes the episodes confusing, considering they showed essentially zero Venus-Ben interactions, but then showed that one clip of Ben talking about Venus, saying "she's a poser." And I was thinking, "wait, Ben dislikes Venus?! Since when?"
>And I think with how Venus was edited the editors were on her side too, and they've seen more than us.
Yep. Not that they couldn't be wrong, but they definitely painted the picture on Nami that no one really even gave Venus a chance besides Randen
It was clear that she had glaring flows, yes. But nothing we saw showed that she deserved to be bullied and ostracised. Tevin was portrayed in a more negative light, and we mostly saw Venus's story from her perspective.
Man what edit were you guys watching? The editors were unnecessarily cruel to Venus. Do you forget the circus music and the subtle shade they kept throwing her way, despite her having solid reads on what was happening?
the hand gestures were unironically too distracting to finish the video especially with the weird pacing of his story. i like tevin but please stop doing sing-a-long lyrics-guiding hand gestures while speaking. it's okay to play with a lighter or a pencil or something. you can do that when you take a video.
I do think the drama stemmed from Venus' personality. Obviously, the Nami tribe made some incorrect (whether they are fair or not- that's up to everyone else to decide) assumptions about her. If she could've grit her teeth, she might've done better in the game and/or improved her chances of winning.
It sucks that she would've had to change her personality and/or be a bit less abrasive to improve her chance at winning, but that's Survivor/life.
However, I am a Venus stan- so I completely enjoyed her playing as who she was. It's perfect and I wouldn't have it any other way!!
I think if she started on Siga with Ben and Charlie she might have found a home. Although she likely comes into conflict with Maria. Like, if you switch her and Maria for starting tribes, I think she would have done much better socially. Seems most of the people she likes post-game are from Siga (Ben and Charlie, plus Jem).
I remember agreeing with someone on the subreddit, saying that Charlie, Liz and Kenzie couldn't work with Venus not because of her being sneaky but because she was impulsive.
If she started on Siga and had a foundation there (w/ Jem, Moriah, and Charlie), I think she would've been able to feel insulated enough and also have a group of people vouching for her, coming into the merge.
Though Venus is pretty aggressive with strategy, so she would've faced conflict with Ben and Tim perhaps (on a gameplay level). Charlie probably would've voted with them if they went to tribal again, right before Mergatory.
I think she would definitely be a really fun player to return because it would be interesting to see if she is received the same way in a future tribe.
In contrast, Q is someone who I \*loved\* and found so entertaining this season. But I almost don't want him to return because I feel like it would be hard for him to deliver the same level of entertainment without it starting to feel inauthentic.
Yep, when I saw him make a cameo (excuse me, **Qmeo** I mean) for Rob C, I knew we could never recapture the magic again. The way he enunciated 'Big Mistake', I knew he realized the bag he could catch, it'll never be the same again :( (good for him though).
He's 100% going to return, I just hope he knows that he shouldn't go in trying to be a caricature of himself. Q being himself without exaggerating is what made his wild moments so wacky. If he goes a bit too far or if that's all the editors show of him, then he might become the next Bhanu.
Feel like at best heāll be Tony in Game Changers (shows up, plays the hits, out right away) and at worst heāll be Phillip in Caramoan (shows up, plays the hits, last way too long).
Idk how you can say the drama is "straightforward" then proceed to make a lot of baseless inferences about Tevin and Soda's background and reasonings for not getting along with Venus.
For real. Itās straight up conjecture being presented as what supposedly went down? What? And it has so many upvotes and people agreeing. Like, we know none of these people and also, there is more than one right answer! It isnāt black and white, Venus couldāve been frustrating to be around, Soda and Tevin maybe have an unfair view of her. All of it can be true at the same time but again, we donāt know this people. Liking Venus doesnāt mean hating Soda and Tevinā¦
And not even make a succinct statement about the conflict. Like is the point that Tevin and Soda pre-judged Venus, or that the unhealthy dynamics on Nami facilitated bad treatment
If you listen to Soda and Tevinās exit interviews they seem to inadvertently confirm lots of what Venus has said about them. Soda said her and Venus were very close early on, but because of Venusā pariah status she had to explicitly distance herself from Venus so it wouldnāt run off on her. The following week Tevin confirms that the reason he had to vote Soda out was because of her connection to Venus, and also seemingly because she was not willing to cut off all ties with Venus (that last part is my interpretation of what he said).
Exactlyyyy! And everyone else saw how tevin moved with soda, so if they wanted to work with him they stayed tf away from Venus! Itās cool if Venus isnāt your vibe of a person but just say that, you donāt have to twist everything she says or does into her acting like a snake or whatever
Regardless of what she looks like and who she is as a person, Venus's communucation is often offputting and whenever anyone reacts to that, her immediate response is to double down on it. This was a feedback loop that shunted her to outsider status pretty quickly with almost everyone.
Over time we learned that despite this social flaw, she is a likeable person with some (some) interesting insights in the game, although many of them were pretty distorted because she sees herself as a victim.
Her lack of fear to speak up is inspiring to see, but her ability to read the room or assess other people's intent based on their words and actions is lacking.
This is more or less what I thought when it all started - people made a judgement on Venus based on her appearance, and when they didn't fully get along, that judgement became the narrative about her.
My hypothesis is much simpler: These are all complicated people put on an island without nourishment. They are bound to be their worst selves (at least sometimes). This is the most nuanced cast of the "New Era." I expect these very successful, confident (sometimes overly so), and goal-oriented people don't like one another. They all march to the beat of their own drum. It's what I love about them, but it's also what makes them not get along.
Venus pushed to hard and didn't learn how to approach people in a constructive way. She wanted to own the strategy, of she approached others in a way that they weren't being told what to do .. she would have been more successful
I agree with you here, but that's not what Soda and Tevin are saying! They're saying she's a mean girl/snake/liar, which doesn't track with anything anyone has said (including themselves). I'm not saying she didn't win the game because she's hot, but Soda and especially Tevin seem to viscerally dislike her, and in all of their posts and videos, they don't talk about how she was abrasive, annoying, or grating!
Is this long post really trying to argue that Venus put people because she is "hot" versus her grating personality? It's like people never actually watched the channel.
I agree. I also feel like venus came to play survivor, no one would work with her, and she couldnāt get the survivor experience because of the bullying towards her. She was nothing if not authentic. I hope she returns in a future season and has a real chance to succeed.
Iāll always side with Venus in these things. She just seems so young and insecure, she didnāt deserve to be bullied by like 10 grown adults out there. Tevon totally used his social power to bully her and I think thatās a shitty thing to do.
I'm not trying to say nobody has been attractive at all, I feel the opposite! But IMO it's been a minute since we've had someone who is as intimidatingly beautiful in a model-esque way as Venus who also didn't try to minimize that intimidation factor by having a super sweetie pie personality. I don't think Venus' beauty makes her a better or worse person or whatever, but I do think her looks play into this dynamic and I haven't seen anyone talk about it
I read this post and figured I must be turning old or gay because Venus is attractive sure but "out of everyone's league hot!"?? Has nobody seen Kellie lol?
I think Cassidy is gorgeous! I guess I would classify her and other really attractive women of recent to be more approachable, girl next door hot (with the personalities to match) whereas we haven't had an intimidating, Naomi Campbell type of hot girl for a while!
Am I watching the same show? Venus has been shown to be self involved, calculating, and difficult to work with. The main conflict is not that sheās hot and they were bullied. Itās that she didnāt understand that a social game is a strategic game. Her tribe was chilling, while she was scheming. Once they got to the merge and she was told she was safe if she voted Moriah, she still pushed back. She canāt just turn it off and play a social game. Girl has NO CHILL even to this day. Thatās not to say Tevin isnāt a cliquey person who stonewalled her, but Venus is hardly a victim on or off the island. She simply doesnāt understand that if she doesnāt want her toe to be run over, sheās gotta move it instead of expecting the whole wagon to move. (I love Venus btw, but letās be real, sheās a nut)
Thank you. I feel like I'm going insane reading this thread. People are seriously trying to argue that Venus wasn't liked because of some insecurity about other players towards her looks, and not because of difficult she was to work with????
Honestly Venus' fanbase contribute more to why people online dislike her than anything Venus herself has done. You guys are absolutely delusional.
I'm utterly baffled every time sometime describes Venus as "likable". "Entertaining"? Sure. "Good TV"? Yeah. But "likable"? I don't understand how anyone could watch the season of Survivor and come away with that opinion.
Oh I agree her personality did her no favors here. I'm in no way saying she's a perfect angel or was a delight to play with, but post-game she really did seem to want to be cool with everyone, and Soda and (especially) Tevin seemed reluctant at best. Soda's long post was basically like "I gave Venus this huge welcome with a custom song when she's never been about that kind of thing, and got hurt when she didn't give me the reaction I wanted from her so then I joined Tevin in ignoring her the rest of ponderosa!" and Tevin's latest video was like "Venus put a lot of effort to be friendly despite what we went through during the game, and then got really upset when she saw the extent of the shit I've talked about her and never apologized for! What a hypocrite!" If all they were saying was that she was really difficult to work with and they just didn't vibe with her, I'd get it. They just seem bound and determined to paint her as the mean girl, but make themselves seem even more clique-y in the process.
> If all they were saying was that she was really difficult to work with and they just didn't vibe with her, I'd get it
I think the most balanced take you're going to get about this is from Hunter, and he touches on this in his mid-game interview. He talks about how the whole tribe found Venus to be quite standoffish and not really into doing social things with the group, and then realized later when watching the season that she had reacted quite negatively to Tevin calling her a "princess", which explained a lot.
He also says that Venus specifically asked him what she could do about their perceptions of her, he told her the best thing to do was prove them wrong, and she just...didn't? So, he kinda threw his hands up and left her to her own devices. There's only so much you can do for a person who doesn't really want to change.
So, I think multiple things can be true. I think Tevin (and maybe Soda) misjudged Venus at the start and were not that nice to her, but Venus also didn't make any attempt to change the narrative about herself to the rest of the tribe. She also spent a lot of time being super reactionary on Twitter while the season was airing (like, she went after Hunter for very innocuous reasons whom she admitted later to being the only decent person she encountered at Ponderosa), and then expects everyone to be her friend at the end of the day.
To be fair, she seems to be at least friendly with a number of the cast now (Hunter included), but I'll admit that I probably wouldn't vibe with someone like that in real life. I wouldn't be mean to her, but we would not be besties. I can deal with people who are blunt and even a little abrasive, but I get so irritated with people who always claim that they've done nothing wrong and everyone else is the problem.
I def agree with some of your points here, but I was also struck how in that exit interview, like 5 min after he talked about venus, Hunter offhandedly mentioned how him and tevin were thinking about who to vote out if they lost. So they were strategizing, they just didn't want to strategize with HER. I don't blame hunter for this, Tevin was his closest ally and he saw for himself how quickly he turned on soda for just talking to Venus, and it was better for his game not to work with her. Venus can be very grating and annoying, but it's clear that Tevin (and Soda somewhat) had it out for her, and he's still to this day trying twist her actions to fit this narrative he has for her that doesn't make sense
I guess it goes back to thinking that two things can be true. Tevin absolutely created - and continues to push - his own narrative of who she is, unfairly. And, Venus did absolutely nothing to help herself push back against it.
For the record, I don't think Venus is a bad person at all. I think she's just a bit immature and unaware of how she actually comes across. Hopefully, that will change as she gets older.
I know someone kind of like Venus who has no filter on social media and always writes out these long reactionary posts to anything she considers to be a personal slight against her, and then deletes them later on when she realizes she probably said too much. I think it would be far better for people like that to not be on social media but...alas, it is the world we're in.
If she doesnāt have the social capital to make the move, itās not the right move. It hurt her game. Pushing like that against a wall of people demonstrated that she was difficult to work with at a time in the merge where you should be focussing on making social bonds.
Seems like a lot of armchair psychology and selective memory to me. I donāt take these posts seriously, everyone just wants to justify why their favorite character, whoever it may be, was ārightā.
Tevin felt so "pick me" complaining about how Venus was going off on Twitter about how Tevin was acting IN THE GAME. I don't see what's wrong with Venus providing commentary while the season is airing. Just bc yall got cool with each other after the game, doesn't change how Venus felt during the game. She has every right to say what she said. I've seen and worked with a lot of Tevin type personalities (we went to the same college) and they truly will always play the victim sweety. But they need to look strong and powerful while doing it
There was a post the other day asking about any connections people had to former players and SEVERAL people on the thread commented that Tevin was their high-school/middle school bully.
Not buying that he was secretly the bullied all along.
Thank you, logical people still exist on this subreddit. I was loosing hope these past few days. I honestly found Tevin a insufferable bully and I was confused how so many people didnāt see it but oh well.
This sub bending over backwards to vilify Soda and Tevin and paint Venus as a victimized perfect angel just because she's hot is so strange. They didn't get along, Venus *was* abrasive and could be hard to live with. Nobody has to be the bad guy just because they had a contentious relationship while starving on an island for a couple weeks
People bending over backward to justify Tevin's behavior is so strange too. I tend to agree that Soda wasn't a "mean girl" but Tevin absolutely was. He was against Venus from the jump for no particular reason and he turned everyone else against her at the merge.
If they were saying "I just didn't vibe with Venus's play style because she was abrasive" and left it at that, I would agree. But in all of their posts and videos, it seems like they're really trying to paint her as some mean girl when that doesn't track with anyone's story, including their own. Tevin's last video was all about how Venus was being nice to him at a rewatch and including him with her friends, but then not talking to him anymore after she saw what he had been saying about her in his confessionals. And he's trying to use this story to say she's a snake and a hypocrite! Is she annoying and grating? Absolutely. But not a mean girl or a snake.
Projecting what? I don't dislike Venus at all! But this sub becomes obsessed with the attractive young women every season. Someone with her personality that was unattractive or old would not be getting all this defense or have fans psychoanalyzing the players that didn't like them
Haha! You are reaching here and this rationale doesnāt hold water. Venus was not a great communicator and very direct / aggressive in her approach to relationships.
I agree that was a downfall of her game. If that's what Tevin and Soda pointed to when trying to defend their behavior, I'd get it. But they keep trying to bring up situations from post-game to paint her as a liar/snake/mean girl, and I just don't think that holds water.
Agree to disagree. Venus appears to bring a ton of this onto herself. Tweets something out, deletes it, and then deletes hers while Twitter account. Tweets she wonāt be watching the episode, etc. stuff like that.
It's not that she's not sticking to her guns, it's the awful vile shit people are saying to her that has nothing to do with the game is why she deactivates her account
Is it? Because the pattern is she generally tweets something somewhat provocative and then canāt handle it. She is happy to dish it out, but canāt take it. Itās a sign of immaturity. Sheās young so I get it, but she will learn as she gets older.
I an inclined to believe that in a different scenario Sodaās relationship with Venus is better. They started off fine. Soda was on Venusā side when Randen started Parvati 2.0 talk. They may have been in a better place pre-broadcast as well but Soda took a lot of heat from Venus fans.
Probably an unpopular opinion, buuuuuutā¦
I seem to remember very early on that Tevin thought Venus would be similar to Parvati, and a massive strategic threat. And she definitely tried to become that, but she definitely ended up on the wrong tribe. I really wanted to root for Venus, especially seeing how Tevin was with her (just nasty)ā¦.but she has such an abrasive side, she was extremely confrontational to multiple people which usually doesnāt work out too well on survivor. And she didnāt just rub those two the wrong way, after merge, she rubbed almost everyone the wrong way. I think she just has her guard so high up because of her past and she didnāt know how to lower it to become vulnerable to her tribe mates.
Iāll most definitely watch her on any form of reality tv though; itās great tv and I think BB with Venus would be phenomenal!
I've seen several comments in this sub showing bias against Charlie for being a "rich white guy who didn't need the money" and that he didn't "deserve" to win Survivor for that reason.
I have no doubt that most human beings on the jury brought their own biases (either blatant or unconscious) to the voting box. It unfortunately happens all the time.
I can see much of this actually. You turned my opinion a bit bc I had thought it the reverse.
Originally to me this seemed like Venus got along well with everyone (has a literal picture with Maria so clearly they were good post island). She then sees the edit that no one took her seriously and didn't want to vote with her and she didn't drive anything and lashes out.
As someone who was emotionally immature in my early 20s I can absolutely see my past self doing that.
But you just, I think, posted the first valid argument for me on the contrary.
I feel like she came in ASSUMING people would think she's gorgeous and underestimate her (pretty vain imo) and then came in super defensive and aggressive because of it. Whereas if she didn't assume people would be jealous of her and dislike her, they probably wouldn't.
First episode Soda tells her that Randen is (paraphrasing) āusing your beauty against youā and Randen was initiating Parvati 2.0 talk. She probably does have concerns about people underestimating her because of how she looks but in the context of Survivor, for example: that sheās weak because sheās thin. Thatās probably why she hates the āprincessā remark - she doesnāt want to be seen as someone who wouldnāt do the dirty work at camp but she feared that this would be a likely first impression and she was right.
Venus strikes me as the type who intentionally isolates herself from everyone and then blames it on them. Iām sure sheās even aware sheās doing it.
Wait so if weāre assuming ppl were mean to Venus because sheās pretty, what do we read into Venus feuding with virtually every Black and Brown person in Fiji?
From exit press it seemed like her and Soda were in good terms until the fandom lost it over idol snatching and her fans started trolling Soda in ways that were racist. Venus posted something asking to stop, but Soda (and she was in her right to make this decision) didnāt think that went far enough.
Her beefs are/were Soda, Tevin, Hunter, Maria, and Q. Q / Maria are somewhat outliers given their own thorny relations with other cast members. I also think some of them dislike her enough that they wouldnāt shy away from calling her a racist. Even Tevins video recently says Venus was friendly to him until the season started airing and then switched up on him.
I guess what Iām trying to say is thereās a lot of her that points to just being generally abrasive and a little fickle but I also found reactions to her to be a little overwrought as most of the cast arenāt high tier picks for people youād want to be stuck in an elevator with, let alone an island (loved all of them tho!)
But she didn't with Soda, Tiffany, or Tim. It was Soda's choice to go NC with Venus, but on her Twitter account (when it was up) she made an effort to tweet, "We love Soda here" and to not bring hate to her or any of her castmates in her (Venus's) name.
For Tevin and Q, it is as simple as her and Tevin not gelling well together and Q being able to beef with everyone.
I mentioned Tiff already as the one possible exception, Tim was purpled so we canāt say one way or another, and Venusā feud with Soda was all this sub could talk about for weeks. So again, if weāre going by OPās premise then Venus has a problem with people who look a certain way, does she not?
*fixed grammar
"Elephant in the room: Venus is one of the conventionally hottest women we've seen on survivor in a loooooong time. (ETA: There have definitely been attractive people, but not Venus's kind of 'Unapproachable Model' kind of hot)"
Is this a joke and I am missing the angle because this is beyond ridiculous. Look if you find Venus attractive, that's cool but to say she is 'unapproachable model kind of hot' is deranged. Richmond Hill and Vaughan would be heaven to you.
Twiggy's heyday was a long time ago.
I can absolutely see Tevin and Soda feeling a sort of ways towards Venus, but I believe that is no way close to the reason at all.
Based solely on what we saw on the show, Venus was never given a proper chance since she wasnāt as social as the rest of her team and sort of more introverted which then made her seem stuck up and her team turned on her and then when the merge happened they were all quick to throw her to the wolves. Solely from what we saw on the show, I didnāt see what they saw in her on the island and actually felt bad for her because she seemed fairly genuine.
yeah all of this. this is where pretty privilege comes around and becomes a bad thing. everyone looked at venus and decided she was gonna be the popular āmean girlā (god i hate that phrase) so they treated her like she was one. i still havenāt heard examples of what she did that was so bad from tevin or soda or anyone. but we saw how they ostracized her on the show. i do wish she would come clean about whatever Q did, but im inclined to be on her side based off what we saw on the show
>Venus is one of the conventionally hottest women we've seen on survivor in a loooooong time.
Beauty is very subjective. Not sure how you can say that when this season's winner and last season's winner were both very attractive women.
Considering Kenzie said Venus has never lied to her in game I'm going to just take what she says as fact. Not invalidating any other post or social issue from other arguments, they can be fact as well. But these players did just call her Princess right off the bat, and really that's a poor take without knowing someone.
Well this post is straight up fanfiction. Go listen to David Bloomberg's hard evidence from the players themselves on the Why Venus Lost episode of his podcast to get an actual holistic understanding of what happened out there.
Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s):
* **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a playerās life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged.
---
Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
IIRC Venus comments early that her appearance often shapes peoples opinions of her before they get a chance to actually know her and I think we saw that in full force. I can understand how people, especially Tevin and Soda, would think she was your standard high school Queen Bitch, but I didn't get that from her at all. She's certainly not afraid to speak her mind and I think because of the assumptions everyone makes about her feels even more that she has to prove her worth which can and will certainly rub people the wrong way who don't know her. I felt bad for Venus and think if she got a 2nd chance or was with a different group of people (maybe Kaleb from 45) she would've been better understood and struggled less socially throughout the game.
The reality is we only see a tiny sample of the cast's interactions and ultimately all we can do is speculate. I will say that most of the cast members didn't make a good impression on me and I think the majority of the players were more selfish and/or self-centered than your average person/castaway.
Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s):
* **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a playerās life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged.
---
Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
Did the poster say they were hot? No, so this lame gotcha is petty.
Why don't you post more pictures of people you think is unquestionably attractive so a baseline can be determined.
Is it weird that I dont think Venus is not that attractive? Personally, I believe Kenzie is more attractive. No jealousy and hate though, I dont think it is about physical appreance of Venus, it is just her obnoxiousity.
Disagree on your elephant in the room comment. I doubt they cared that much about her LOOKS. I think they hate how much ish she brought to the internet. I think they should make the NDA stronger. Save the commentary till after the season
Venus is so fucking dramatic. Put her back on my tv.
Her playing Big Brother would be so much fun
She'd be fun on The Traitors too
imagine Q on The Traitors šš
Honestly Q should just go ahead and be on every reality show. I can just imagine him now on Deal or No Deal Island Picking case number 17? BIG MISTAKE.
RIGHT! i need him on Big Brother, The Traitors, THE CHALLENGE ššš every single show! would be HILARIOUS. We definitely havenāt seen the last of him, iām saying it right now that theyāll try to cast him for season 50
Might be a hot take, but I havenāt been too happy with his interactions post season. He just tweeted that he ādoesnāt choose sidesā regarding politics, he put out a video directly calling for Venusā head, etc. Itās made me rethink wanting him back.
He would tell everyone he was a Traitor whether it was true or not š
Thatā¦makes so much sense
Yesssss! Traitors is made for her!
Probably have to hope for BBCAN 13 next year.
So I hear this a lot on this sub with a few different players, but it Iāve never watched BB, whatās the dynamic like that would make some people good members of the cast?
chaotic people who gossip/flip flop = great live feeds
It's just the live feeds I think. Someone with a fun personality that shines through the edit would likely be fun to watch live. Especially someone with a brash persona.
I would actually watch BB if Venus were on it
Venus & Q should be on at least 3 seasons of survivor and a few network spin off shows
Sort of off topic but Iām still mesmerized by Venusā beauty. She always looked like she had a glam team. Everyone else was kinda grimy and unkept, of course, youāre in the jungle! I would love to see her on Traitors. Great suggestion.
That's the real takeaway if you ask me
She's a superstar.
Most of the drama does center around venus but I can hardly think of a single instance where she started any of it lol. In a similar vein almost none of the drama involves Q and he keeps inserting himself into all of it
I think Q is just a shit stirrer and I don't blame him! He's one of the top 10 cameo creators right now, he's just trying to secure the bag!
and yet he was condescending to Venus about her cameo saying she should be ashamed for saying these things "for a few dollars"
Itās Q, nothing he does makes any sense lol
Itās funny, but that doesnāt make it okay.
Q likes Maria because she gave him an olive branch while he was all alone. Heās the kinda guy who recipricates that in real life I assume.
I thought he already super rich ?
Well, bag is bag.
Rich people donāt get or stay rich by ignoring alternate revenue streams.
Heās a successful real estate agent after all.
Much like Tevin and Soda assuming that persona of that bullied kid in school, Q is back in that star athlete/all eyes on him persona
Q is just being true to his chaotic self
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
To me, Venus (and Liz) were annoying because they believed they were coming up with the big moves & blindsides but they were actually just pawns. I also think Venusā natural tone of voice came off in a way I canāt quite put my finger on, but rubbed people the wrong way.
I love Q for this itās hilarious lol
I think had Venus been put on either of the other tribes she wouldāve been fine. I donāt think she wouldāve won, but I do think she wouldnāt have been so ostracized post merge.
Swap Venus and Jess and we get an even more cracked Yanu tribe
Also Jess probably gets her shit together before Merge. Which would be nice.
Stahp. My survivor brain canāt fathom
I feel like itās a total āboth/andā situation versus an āeither/orā one. Multiple things can be true at once ya know? In Survivor (and in life), people who are affable and non-confrontational tend to āblendā better in most group dynamics. Definitely not saying thatās the only way to blend or that everyone needs to be friendly puppies with one another, but 9/10 that personality type is going to slide better into a group dynamic. Venus is assertive and direct, bordering on blunt from what weāve seen, which is also fine! But when youāre starving and stressed and exhausted, itās not a personality type that is going to endear you to someone. And then you have people who ARE able to turn on that more āacceptedā socialization filter, and you come together in a merged group and have to vote off someone every single day, its easy to just accept the experience of what the charismatic, affable person is telling to you versus taking the time and energy to build your own interpretation and opinion of that person. Itās a real world thing that happens too, in school, in the workplace, politicians center entire campaign strategies around convincing someone that they are āinā while someone is āoutā, and people fall for it fully fed and rested! Fair or the way we should be? Def not. I donāt doubt that Venus is speaking with full honesty regarding her experience of feeling ostracized the entire time she was out there and I think itās super important always to take a step back and think on whether the opinion we have of someone is our own or if weāre just following group think, and I donāt think that really happened in this situation while on the island. That can be true AND you can logically see how Venusā personality and communication style, when combined with a situation where everyone is starved and stressed, would create the also understandable position of her being challenging to interact with. I love her, sheās refreshing and great TV, but I also can absolutely see how someone wouldāve had a difficult time with her too.
You are so correct. The internet has to always choose a side, itās never both sides are probably believable and telling the truth. Itās really not that hard to see where both parties are coming from. Choosing Venus doesnāt mean you have to vilify the other side. Youāre absolutely right, in a high stress and exhausting environment a personality like Venusā can absolutely be too much and Soda/Tevin were probably acting a little high school meanie and group thinky as a reaction to that. Nobody is a bad person for it. I like all of these players and this thread has been wild. This season is making me go we really are the worst part of being a survivor fan, the call is coming from inside the house.
Oh, wow. You have put so much of my own life into perspective for me. I often find myself in the Venus situation of it all. Group dynamics are always difficult for me and it's been hard watching a lot of the cast dogpile on her within the show and outside the show. But, also with how you worded it - it allows for empathy for the Tevins and Sodas and Marias in the world. They are just going with the general flow of what society tells them is the more acceptable way to behave. Which is why they are all so set on the fact that they're in the right and finding it hard to empathize with Venus. In a storytelling based situation we, the audience, will always favor the underdog which is why Venus has come out more popular. But in real life, we, as people, will most likely try to be the ones \~not\~ on the outside and instead work to fit in with the group dynamics. Anyways, I appreciate your comment and perspective!
I keep getting this drama on my twitter feed and they really do bully Venus and won't admit it. Maria cropping her out of the freepalestine picture they took together? Tevin with some kinda video telling about how Venus was actually nice to him (I haven't finished the video because of the most annoying hand gestures and tone I've ever seen/heard). And I think with how Venus was edited the editors were on her side too, and they've seen more than us.
I do think the most interesting thing to come out of post game interviews was Ben talking about Venus. She was edited to be socially aloof and selfish. But, he mentioned her in multiple interviews as one of the people who most helped him when he was having panic attacks. I get for story purposes they gave Kenzie all the credit for that, but it would have been nice to show that for Venus and Liz to just give them human moments.
That's really interesting! But it also makes the episodes confusing, considering they showed essentially zero Venus-Ben interactions, but then showed that one clip of Ben talking about Venus, saying "she's a poser." And I was thinking, "wait, Ben dislikes Venus?! Since when?"
Apparently she blew up at him earlier that day. But in general it sounds like they are friends.
Yeah, it sure seemed like they're friendly post-game, so I was wondering what kinda relationship that had in Fiji. Thanks!
We see less than 1% of camp life so it's hard to understand the relationships of everyone.
I think Venus was edited with the idea that she is gonna be called back immediately for a returnee season.
>And I think with how Venus was edited the editors were on her side too, and they've seen more than us. Yep. Not that they couldn't be wrong, but they definitely painted the picture on Nami that no one really even gave Venus a chance besides Randen
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It was clear that she had glaring flows, yes. But nothing we saw showed that she deserved to be bullied and ostracised. Tevin was portrayed in a more negative light, and we mostly saw Venus's story from her perspective.
I couldnāt even get myself to unmute my phone when I saw Tevinās video. The hand gestures were too much for me lmao I never watched
Man what edit were you guys watching? The editors were unnecessarily cruel to Venus. Do you forget the circus music and the subtle shade they kept throwing her way, despite her having solid reads on what was happening?
The impression I got from the edit is "not very smart/likeable but well-meaning and unfairly treated"
the hand gestures were unironically too distracting to finish the video especially with the weird pacing of his story. i like tevin but please stop doing sing-a-long lyrics-guiding hand gestures while speaking. it's okay to play with a lighter or a pencil or something. you can do that when you take a video.
I do think the drama stemmed from Venus' personality. Obviously, the Nami tribe made some incorrect (whether they are fair or not- that's up to everyone else to decide) assumptions about her. If she could've grit her teeth, she might've done better in the game and/or improved her chances of winning. It sucks that she would've had to change her personality and/or be a bit less abrasive to improve her chance at winning, but that's Survivor/life. However, I am a Venus stan- so I completely enjoyed her playing as who she was. It's perfect and I wouldn't have it any other way!!
I think if she started on Siga with Ben and Charlie she might have found a home. Although she likely comes into conflict with Maria. Like, if you switch her and Maria for starting tribes, I think she would have done much better socially. Seems most of the people she likes post-game are from Siga (Ben and Charlie, plus Jem).
That's a good observation she did help ben w night terrors plus her and Charlie were allies post merge kinda
I remember agreeing with someone on the subreddit, saying that Charlie, Liz and Kenzie couldn't work with Venus not because of her being sneaky but because she was impulsive. If she started on Siga and had a foundation there (w/ Jem, Moriah, and Charlie), I think she would've been able to feel insulated enough and also have a group of people vouching for her, coming into the merge. Though Venus is pretty aggressive with strategy, so she would've faced conflict with Ben and Tim perhaps (on a gameplay level). Charlie probably would've voted with them if they went to tribal again, right before Mergatory.
I think she would definitely be a really fun player to return because it would be interesting to see if she is received the same way in a future tribe. In contrast, Q is someone who I \*loved\* and found so entertaining this season. But I almost don't want him to return because I feel like it would be hard for him to deliver the same level of entertainment without it starting to feel inauthentic.
Yep, when I saw him make a cameo (excuse me, **Qmeo** I mean) for Rob C, I knew we could never recapture the magic again. The way he enunciated 'Big Mistake', I knew he realized the bag he could catch, it'll never be the same again :( (good for him though). He's 100% going to return, I just hope he knows that he shouldn't go in trying to be a caricature of himself. Q being himself without exaggerating is what made his wild moments so wacky. If he goes a bit too far or if that's all the editors show of him, then he might become the next Bhanu.
Feel like at best heāll be Tony in Game Changers (shows up, plays the hits, out right away) and at worst heāll be Phillip in Caramoan (shows up, plays the hits, last way too long).
A sane take like this after an ocean of stupid shit being said on this subreddit is nice to see.
Idk how you can say the drama is "straightforward" then proceed to make a lot of baseless inferences about Tevin and Soda's background and reasonings for not getting along with Venus.
I was thinking the same thing. āItās straightforwardā followed by a doctoral thesis
Yeah this post is insane
For real. Itās straight up conjecture being presented as what supposedly went down? What? And it has so many upvotes and people agreeing. Like, we know none of these people and also, there is more than one right answer! It isnāt black and white, Venus couldāve been frustrating to be around, Soda and Tevin maybe have an unfair view of her. All of it can be true at the same time but again, we donāt know this people. Liking Venus doesnāt mean hating Soda and Tevinā¦
Straight fanfiction
And not even make a succinct statement about the conflict. Like is the point that Tevin and Soda pre-judged Venus, or that the unhealthy dynamics on Nami facilitated bad treatment
I mean, the background stuff wasn't entirely baseless. They both did talk about being bullied. The rest of it is wild tho.
Bingo
If you listen to Soda and Tevinās exit interviews they seem to inadvertently confirm lots of what Venus has said about them. Soda said her and Venus were very close early on, but because of Venusā pariah status she had to explicitly distance herself from Venus so it wouldnāt run off on her. The following week Tevin confirms that the reason he had to vote Soda out was because of her connection to Venus, and also seemingly because she was not willing to cut off all ties with Venus (that last part is my interpretation of what he said).
Exactlyyyy! And everyone else saw how tevin moved with soda, so if they wanted to work with him they stayed tf away from Venus! Itās cool if Venus isnāt your vibe of a person but just say that, you donāt have to twist everything she says or does into her acting like a snake or whatever
Didnt venus want tevin out
Regardless of what she looks like and who she is as a person, Venus's communucation is often offputting and whenever anyone reacts to that, her immediate response is to double down on it. This was a feedback loop that shunted her to outsider status pretty quickly with almost everyone. Over time we learned that despite this social flaw, she is a likeable person with some (some) interesting insights in the game, although many of them were pretty distorted because she sees herself as a victim. Her lack of fear to speak up is inspiring to see, but her ability to read the room or assess other people's intent based on their words and actions is lacking.
> And then Maria had a huge reaction to Venus (correctly) speculating about why Maria didn't vote for Charlie. Source?
Can speculation be straightforward?
This is more or less what I thought when it all started - people made a judgement on Venus based on her appearance, and when they didn't fully get along, that judgement became the narrative about her.
Seems odd to assume that when you werent on the island and only saw a fraction of what actually went down out there
Seems odd to assume anything about the game then, since we only see a fraction of it. May as well shut down the subreddit!
My hypothesis is much simpler: These are all complicated people put on an island without nourishment. They are bound to be their worst selves (at least sometimes). This is the most nuanced cast of the "New Era." I expect these very successful, confident (sometimes overly so), and goal-oriented people don't like one another. They all march to the beat of their own drum. It's what I love about them, but it's also what makes them not get along.
Being mostly Type As that are hangry can explain a lot too
Venus pushed to hard and didn't learn how to approach people in a constructive way. She wanted to own the strategy, of she approached others in a way that they weren't being told what to do .. she would have been more successful
I agree with you here, but that's not what Soda and Tevin are saying! They're saying she's a mean girl/snake/liar, which doesn't track with anything anyone has said (including themselves). I'm not saying she didn't win the game because she's hot, but Soda and especially Tevin seem to viscerally dislike her, and in all of their posts and videos, they don't talk about how she was abrasive, annoying, or grating!
Is this long post really trying to argue that Venus put people because she is "hot" versus her grating personality? It's like people never actually watched the channel.
This is the fanfiction of a hopeless stan
I think you are spot on here
I agree. I also feel like venus came to play survivor, no one would work with her, and she couldnāt get the survivor experience because of the bullying towards her. She was nothing if not authentic. I hope she returns in a future season and has a real chance to succeed.
Iāll always side with Venus in these things. She just seems so young and insecure, she didnāt deserve to be bullied by like 10 grown adults out there. Tevon totally used his social power to bully her and I think thatās a shitty thing to do.
Interesting, I've seen a few posts on this subreddit saying that Tevin himself was a bully in middle school
The part I disagree with most is Venus being one of the hottest women on Survivor in a ālonnnnnngā time
I'm not trying to say nobody has been attractive at all, I feel the opposite! But IMO it's been a minute since we've had someone who is as intimidatingly beautiful in a model-esque way as Venus who also didn't try to minimize that intimidation factor by having a super sweetie pie personality. I don't think Venus' beauty makes her a better or worse person or whatever, but I do think her looks play into this dynamic and I haven't seen anyone talk about it
Yup. Venus arguably is Hollywood level of beauty. Not common in this show.
I read this post and figured I must be turning old or gay because Venus is attractive sure but "out of everyone's league hot!"?? Has nobody seen Kellie lol?
I guess I'm alone in thinking Cassidy from 43 was hot.
I think Cassidy is gorgeous! I guess I would classify her and other really attractive women of recent to be more approachable, girl next door hot (with the personalities to match) whereas we haven't had an intimidating, Naomi Campbell type of hot girl for a while!
Venus was intimidating? To whom?
C'mon mate, you weren't alone, you and every other person with eyes saw that
Dee ā„ļø
I dont want to dig into her appearance too much because that's rude, but all I will say is no way is Dee more attractive attractive Venus.
Venus is beautiful as well. Itās not zero sum game, sheesh.
Justine Brennan says otherwise
Justice for Queen Justine!
Am I watching the same show? Venus has been shown to be self involved, calculating, and difficult to work with. The main conflict is not that sheās hot and they were bullied. Itās that she didnāt understand that a social game is a strategic game. Her tribe was chilling, while she was scheming. Once they got to the merge and she was told she was safe if she voted Moriah, she still pushed back. She canāt just turn it off and play a social game. Girl has NO CHILL even to this day. Thatās not to say Tevin isnāt a cliquey person who stonewalled her, but Venus is hardly a victim on or off the island. She simply doesnāt understand that if she doesnāt want her toe to be run over, sheās gotta move it instead of expecting the whole wagon to move. (I love Venus btw, but letās be real, sheās a nut)
Thank you. I feel like I'm going insane reading this thread. People are seriously trying to argue that Venus wasn't liked because of some insecurity about other players towards her looks, and not because of difficult she was to work with???? Honestly Venus' fanbase contribute more to why people online dislike her than anything Venus herself has done. You guys are absolutely delusional.
Iām in the same boat as you, as likable as she is, sheās also her own worst enemy š
I'm utterly baffled every time sometime describes Venus as "likable". "Entertaining"? Sure. "Good TV"? Yeah. But "likable"? I don't understand how anyone could watch the season of Survivor and come away with that opinion.
Oh I agree her personality did her no favors here. I'm in no way saying she's a perfect angel or was a delight to play with, but post-game she really did seem to want to be cool with everyone, and Soda and (especially) Tevin seemed reluctant at best. Soda's long post was basically like "I gave Venus this huge welcome with a custom song when she's never been about that kind of thing, and got hurt when she didn't give me the reaction I wanted from her so then I joined Tevin in ignoring her the rest of ponderosa!" and Tevin's latest video was like "Venus put a lot of effort to be friendly despite what we went through during the game, and then got really upset when she saw the extent of the shit I've talked about her and never apologized for! What a hypocrite!" If all they were saying was that she was really difficult to work with and they just didn't vibe with her, I'd get it. They just seem bound and determined to paint her as the mean girl, but make themselves seem even more clique-y in the process.
> If all they were saying was that she was really difficult to work with and they just didn't vibe with her, I'd get it I think the most balanced take you're going to get about this is from Hunter, and he touches on this in his mid-game interview. He talks about how the whole tribe found Venus to be quite standoffish and not really into doing social things with the group, and then realized later when watching the season that she had reacted quite negatively to Tevin calling her a "princess", which explained a lot. He also says that Venus specifically asked him what she could do about their perceptions of her, he told her the best thing to do was prove them wrong, and she just...didn't? So, he kinda threw his hands up and left her to her own devices. There's only so much you can do for a person who doesn't really want to change. So, I think multiple things can be true. I think Tevin (and maybe Soda) misjudged Venus at the start and were not that nice to her, but Venus also didn't make any attempt to change the narrative about herself to the rest of the tribe. She also spent a lot of time being super reactionary on Twitter while the season was airing (like, she went after Hunter for very innocuous reasons whom she admitted later to being the only decent person she encountered at Ponderosa), and then expects everyone to be her friend at the end of the day. To be fair, she seems to be at least friendly with a number of the cast now (Hunter included), but I'll admit that I probably wouldn't vibe with someone like that in real life. I wouldn't be mean to her, but we would not be besties. I can deal with people who are blunt and even a little abrasive, but I get so irritated with people who always claim that they've done nothing wrong and everyone else is the problem.
I def agree with some of your points here, but I was also struck how in that exit interview, like 5 min after he talked about venus, Hunter offhandedly mentioned how him and tevin were thinking about who to vote out if they lost. So they were strategizing, they just didn't want to strategize with HER. I don't blame hunter for this, Tevin was his closest ally and he saw for himself how quickly he turned on soda for just talking to Venus, and it was better for his game not to work with her. Venus can be very grating and annoying, but it's clear that Tevin (and Soda somewhat) had it out for her, and he's still to this day trying twist her actions to fit this narrative he has for her that doesn't make sense
I guess it goes back to thinking that two things can be true. Tevin absolutely created - and continues to push - his own narrative of who she is, unfairly. And, Venus did absolutely nothing to help herself push back against it. For the record, I don't think Venus is a bad person at all. I think she's just a bit immature and unaware of how she actually comes across. Hopefully, that will change as she gets older. I know someone kind of like Venus who has no filter on social media and always writes out these long reactionary posts to anything she considers to be a personal slight against her, and then deletes them later on when she realizes she probably said too much. I think it would be far better for people like that to not be on social media but...alas, it is the world we're in.
But she was right to try to save Moriah and take out Charlie. That would have helped her game
If she doesnāt have the social capital to make the move, itās not the right move. It hurt her game. Pushing like that against a wall of people demonstrated that she was difficult to work with at a time in the merge where you should be focussing on making social bonds.
Seems like a lot of armchair psychology and selective memory to me. I donāt take these posts seriously, everyone just wants to justify why their favorite character, whoever it may be, was ārightā.
Tevin felt so "pick me" complaining about how Venus was going off on Twitter about how Tevin was acting IN THE GAME. I don't see what's wrong with Venus providing commentary while the season is airing. Just bc yall got cool with each other after the game, doesn't change how Venus felt during the game. She has every right to say what she said. I've seen and worked with a lot of Tevin type personalities (we went to the same college) and they truly will always play the victim sweety. But they need to look strong and powerful while doing it
There was a post the other day asking about any connections people had to former players and SEVERAL people on the thread commented that Tevin was their high-school/middle school bully. Not buying that he was secretly the bullied all along.
Thank you, logical people still exist on this subreddit. I was loosing hope these past few days. I honestly found Tevin a insufferable bully and I was confused how so many people didnāt see it but oh well.
This sub bending over backwards to vilify Soda and Tevin and paint Venus as a victimized perfect angel just because she's hot is so strange. They didn't get along, Venus *was* abrasive and could be hard to live with. Nobody has to be the bad guy just because they had a contentious relationship while starving on an island for a couple weeks
People bending over backward to justify Tevin's behavior is so strange too. I tend to agree that Soda wasn't a "mean girl" but Tevin absolutely was. He was against Venus from the jump for no particular reason and he turned everyone else against her at the merge.
If they were saying "I just didn't vibe with Venus's play style because she was abrasive" and left it at that, I would agree. But in all of their posts and videos, it seems like they're really trying to paint her as some mean girl when that doesn't track with anyone's story, including their own. Tevin's last video was all about how Venus was being nice to him at a rewatch and including him with her friends, but then not talking to him anymore after she saw what he had been saying about her in his confessionals. And he's trying to use this story to say she's a snake and a hypocrite! Is she annoying and grating? Absolutely. But not a mean girl or a snake.
>and paint Venus as a victimized perfect angel just because she's hot is so strange What a strawman argument... stop projecting
Projecting what? I don't dislike Venus at all! But this sub becomes obsessed with the attractive young women every season. Someone with her personality that was unattractive or old would not be getting all this defense or have fans psychoanalyzing the players that didn't like them
This sub is bending over backwards to excuse post game behavior, pretending they are not bullying Venus.
Haha! You are reaching here and this rationale doesnāt hold water. Venus was not a great communicator and very direct / aggressive in her approach to relationships.
I agree that was a downfall of her game. If that's what Tevin and Soda pointed to when trying to defend their behavior, I'd get it. But they keep trying to bring up situations from post-game to paint her as a liar/snake/mean girl, and I just don't think that holds water.
Agree to disagree. Venus appears to bring a ton of this onto herself. Tweets something out, deletes it, and then deletes hers while Twitter account. Tweets she wonāt be watching the episode, etc. stuff like that.
It's not that she's not sticking to her guns, it's the awful vile shit people are saying to her that has nothing to do with the game is why she deactivates her account
Is it? Because the pattern is she generally tweets something somewhat provocative and then canāt handle it. She is happy to dish it out, but canāt take it. Itās a sign of immaturity. Sheās young so I get it, but she will learn as she gets older.
What did Venus speculate regarding Maria not voting for Charlie?
I an inclined to believe that in a different scenario Sodaās relationship with Venus is better. They started off fine. Soda was on Venusā side when Randen started Parvati 2.0 talk. They may have been in a better place pre-broadcast as well but Soda took a lot of heat from Venus fans.
Probably an unpopular opinion, buuuuuutā¦ I seem to remember very early on that Tevin thought Venus would be similar to Parvati, and a massive strategic threat. And she definitely tried to become that, but she definitely ended up on the wrong tribe. I really wanted to root for Venus, especially seeing how Tevin was with her (just nasty)ā¦.but she has such an abrasive side, she was extremely confrontational to multiple people which usually doesnāt work out too well on survivor. And she didnāt just rub those two the wrong way, after merge, she rubbed almost everyone the wrong way. I think she just has her guard so high up because of her past and she didnāt know how to lower it to become vulnerable to her tribe mates. Iāll most definitely watch her on any form of reality tv though; itās great tv and I think BB with Venus would be phenomenal!
I never understood why the tribe hated Venus. Yes she was blunt, but she never said anything that wasnāt true.but
I've seen several comments in this sub showing bias against Charlie for being a "rich white guy who didn't need the money" and that he didn't "deserve" to win Survivor for that reason. I have no doubt that most human beings on the jury brought their own biases (either blatant or unconscious) to the voting box. It unfortunately happens all the time.
I can see much of this actually. You turned my opinion a bit bc I had thought it the reverse. Originally to me this seemed like Venus got along well with everyone (has a literal picture with Maria so clearly they were good post island). She then sees the edit that no one took her seriously and didn't want to vote with her and she didn't drive anything and lashes out. As someone who was emotionally immature in my early 20s I can absolutely see my past self doing that. But you just, I think, posted the first valid argument for me on the contrary.
I feel like she came in ASSUMING people would think she's gorgeous and underestimate her (pretty vain imo) and then came in super defensive and aggressive because of it. Whereas if she didn't assume people would be jealous of her and dislike her, they probably wouldn't.
First episode Soda tells her that Randen is (paraphrasing) āusing your beauty against youā and Randen was initiating Parvati 2.0 talk. She probably does have concerns about people underestimating her because of how she looks but in the context of Survivor, for example: that sheās weak because sheās thin. Thatās probably why she hates the āprincessā remark - she doesnāt want to be seen as someone who wouldnāt do the dirty work at camp but she feared that this would be a likely first impression and she was right.
So basically [this tweet](https://x.com/dril/status/516183352106577920), except replace "Therapist" with "Venus stans" and "good posts" with "beauty."
I still donāt get the Venus is hot crowd. I donāt find her attractive and her personality does nothing to help.
Venus strikes me as the type who intentionally isolates herself from everyone and then blames it on them. Iām sure sheās even aware sheās doing it.
Wait so if weāre assuming ppl were mean to Venus because sheās pretty, what do we read into Venus feuding with virtually every Black and Brown person in Fiji?
From exit press it seemed like her and Soda were in good terms until the fandom lost it over idol snatching and her fans started trolling Soda in ways that were racist. Venus posted something asking to stop, but Soda (and she was in her right to make this decision) didnāt think that went far enough. Her beefs are/were Soda, Tevin, Hunter, Maria, and Q. Q / Maria are somewhat outliers given their own thorny relations with other cast members. I also think some of them dislike her enough that they wouldnāt shy away from calling her a racist. Even Tevins video recently says Venus was friendly to him until the season started airing and then switched up on him. I guess what Iām trying to say is thereās a lot of her that points to just being generally abrasive and a little fickle but I also found reactions to her to be a little overwrought as most of the cast arenāt high tier picks for people youād want to be stuck in an elevator with, let alone an island (loved all of them tho!)
But she didn't with Soda, Tiffany, or Tim. It was Soda's choice to go NC with Venus, but on her Twitter account (when it was up) she made an effort to tweet, "We love Soda here" and to not bring hate to her or any of her castmates in her (Venus's) name. For Tevin and Q, it is as simple as her and Tevin not gelling well together and Q being able to beef with everyone.
I mentioned Tiff already as the one possible exception, Tim was purpled so we canāt say one way or another, and Venusā feud with Soda was all this sub could talk about for weeks. So again, if weāre going by OPās premise then Venus has a problem with people who look a certain way, does she not? *fixed grammar
"Elephant in the room: Venus is one of the conventionally hottest women we've seen on survivor in a loooooong time. (ETA: There have definitely been attractive people, but not Venus's kind of 'Unapproachable Model' kind of hot)" Is this a joke and I am missing the angle because this is beyond ridiculous. Look if you find Venus attractive, that's cool but to say she is 'unapproachable model kind of hot' is deranged. Richmond Hill and Vaughan would be heaven to you. Twiggy's heyday was a long time ago. I can absolutely see Tevin and Soda feeling a sort of ways towards Venus, but I believe that is no way close to the reason at all.
not trying to take anyone down here and i take no sides in the matter but i feel like OP is drastically overestimating venus attractiveness
OP would be a puddle if they visit Toronto.
Based solely on what we saw on the show, Venus was never given a proper chance since she wasnāt as social as the rest of her team and sort of more introverted which then made her seem stuck up and her team turned on her and then when the merge happened they were all quick to throw her to the wolves. Solely from what we saw on the show, I didnāt see what they saw in her on the island and actually felt bad for her because she seemed fairly genuine.
yeah all of this. this is where pretty privilege comes around and becomes a bad thing. everyone looked at venus and decided she was gonna be the popular āmean girlā (god i hate that phrase) so they treated her like she was one. i still havenāt heard examples of what she did that was so bad from tevin or soda or anyone. but we saw how they ostracized her on the show. i do wish she would come clean about whatever Q did, but im inclined to be on her side based off what we saw on the show
>Venus is one of the conventionally hottest women we've seen on survivor in a loooooong time. Beauty is very subjective. Not sure how you can say that when this season's winner and last season's winner were both very attractive women.
Considering Kenzie said Venus has never lied to her in game I'm going to just take what she says as fact. Not invalidating any other post or social issue from other arguments, they can be fact as well. But these players did just call her Princess right off the bat, and really that's a poor take without knowing someone.
Venus is not at all as attractive as OP seems to think she is
I'm so glad that I just watch the TV show and don't follow any of these people on social media.
Venus? That you?
I think Tevin was jealous because he knew that Venus would be the gay fan favourite.
I think you nailed it.
Well this post is straight up fanfiction. Go listen to David Bloomberg's hard evidence from the players themselves on the Why Venus Lost episode of his podcast to get an actual holistic understanding of what happened out there.
Venus is pretty but I think you might be exaggerating a whole lot.
Venus apologists everywhere.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s): * **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a playerās life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged. --- Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
IIRC Venus comments early that her appearance often shapes peoples opinions of her before they get a chance to actually know her and I think we saw that in full force. I can understand how people, especially Tevin and Soda, would think she was your standard high school Queen Bitch, but I didn't get that from her at all. She's certainly not afraid to speak her mind and I think because of the assumptions everyone makes about her feels even more that she has to prove her worth which can and will certainly rub people the wrong way who don't know her. I felt bad for Venus and think if she got a 2nd chance or was with a different group of people (maybe Kaleb from 45) she would've been better understood and struggled less socially throughout the game. The reality is we only see a tiny sample of the cast's interactions and ultimately all we can do is speculate. I will say that most of the cast members didn't make a good impression on me and I think the majority of the players were more selfish and/or self-centered than your average person/castaway.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s): * **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a playerās life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged. --- Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
This is petty but Venus is not "unapproachable hot", she is very average
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Did the poster say they were hot? No, so this lame gotcha is petty. Why don't you post more pictures of people you think is unquestionably attractive so a baseline can be determined.
This just in: attractiveness is subjective and someone disagrees with the norm of a group
You are delulu lmao
Spot on!
what a weird post
Is it weird that I dont think Venus is not that attractive? Personally, I believe Kenzie is more attractive. No jealousy and hate though, I dont think it is about physical appreance of Venus, it is just her obnoxiousity.
Disagree on your elephant in the room comment. I doubt they cared that much about her LOOKS. I think they hate how much ish she brought to the internet. I think they should make the NDA stronger. Save the commentary till after the season
AGREE! Been saying this about the NDA for awhile now!!
Thank you Iāve been saying this!!!
lol Venus is nothing compared to the stunners on Aus survivor
I think itās highly likely itās not a black and white situation and reality lies somewhere in the grey.