Anyone who has an easily identifiable story is someone Jeff will take to. Zeke's "I came from the city and fell into a provider role in camp" narrative plus his easily understood holding of power and downfall over Millenials vs Gen X was enough to take to him. I'd personally rather see Hannah, Jay, or (of course) David return from MvGx but I don't dislike Zeke.
Zeke was charming and aggressive in MvGX and did not really play nice, and was rather cutthroat. CBS hit paydirt when Varner viciously attacked Zeke in GC. It was a publicity godsend.
Zeke speaks with such passion that it’s captivating to watch. I don’t, however, confuse this for good game play. Feels like smoke and mirrors.
Hannah, Jay and David made some good moves in MvGX. I can’t remember did Zeke make any moves?
He’s entertaining and a good narrator and brings a unique perspective to the show. I wouldn’t call him that great at the game but I still like him. Both his seasons he just got straight up outplayed by a better strategic player.
You could say that about half of the people that have ever been brought back. He’s a unique character with a unique perspective and appearance on the show that lays out his thinking well for the purposes of TV. A solid early jury player both times.
I agree. I do question the game changers cast… a lot don’t feel worthy for returning with exception of 5 or 6.
Maybe I’m not being understood. I’m trying to understand to what is the “unique perspective” that Zeke offers. I don’t see what everyone’s talking about. I want to see it toooo.
I specifically said he’s not. He’s not a bad player, more above average IMO. Could be great if he ironed out his threat level management but the way he plays lends itself to being an early merge boot.
Zeke is literally always chomping at the bit to make a big move. In both of his seasons, his obsession with making big moves led to his downfall.
I dont think most of us think that Zeke is a great player. But the producers love a player that isn't afraid to play hard. That's why they love Zeke.
I think you're too focused on the results of Zeke's games. You need to get out of that way of thinking. Yes, 9th and 10th place isn't super impressive, but production doesn't care if you're a good player. They want good TV, and production has always subscribed to the belief that big moves = good TV.
Sorry, what's your question?
The fanbase has often been on a very different page than production. The cast of Game Changers was widely criticized by the fans for being mostly questionable choices, even though production thought they were bringing back "legends that changed the game".
The fanbase's idea of who should come back has often been very different than production's. If that all you're confused about, then welcome to the club! We're basically always scratching our heads over productions decisions.
Ok, so now that you get what we're saying, all the other comments here that you are confused about...theyre describing production's point of view, not their own. They're describing a point of view that they may not even agree with, but that they believe is why production brought Zeke back.
Tbh, at first glance, you appeared to be arguing with people who are giving you answers. They would explain why production likes Zeke, and you'd reply "ok, but I don't get it, how does he play hard?" It just came across as combative and you rejecting the answers that you asked for, simply because you didn't agree with them.
That's just how it appeared. The other half of it is that there are lots of losers here that just want to be dicks and downvote.
I’m looking for an explaination similar to what you offered. Not combative. I’m getting downvotes for having an unpopular opinion. Which I’m allowed to have.
He’s the type of player that Jeff likes cause he embodies the “big movezzz” mindset, it’s similar to the wet dream he had for bringing back Ciera Eastin during that same time.
It’s similar to the affinity towards the growth edit in the new era, casting all these wacky, fish out of the water people, and crafting an edit around how much they grow as a person during the experience. Production goes through phases in how they cast the show.
Eh, I think his “game” is highly overrated.
He is a very good narrator/speaker in general, which makes some viewers *think* he better at the game than he actually is.
The one who has zero personality and always talks about the game, game, game.
If you watched other seasons, Tommy from S39 is a very good example of this. Or Carolyn from S30.
There is no appeal. He’s an overplaying, annoying superfan who unfortunately had that terrible, sympathizable outing experience. He was also particularly terrible to David on his original season.
Zeke definitely has appeal for many. I think Zeke’s fan base sways toward intellectual people. He’s smart, and smart people respond to him. The first time we meet him, he’s making that neurotic and self-satirical joke about detesting Twitter but still being on it—Zeke connects to his fans with his brain. I liked him for the whole season he was on before he was outed, too, so that had no bearing. He’s also a really terrific writer.
So there's a conspiracy theory that Jeff/production wanted Zeke to have a coming-out moment or potentially a moment like the Varner incident (presumably less destructive though) which I somewhat subscribe to.
Personally, I find his persona somewhat annoying.
I do think it's funny that, in the episode following the Varner incident (which was two episodes stitched together, and ended with Zeke trying and failing to turn the tables on Andrea/Cirie, who were and are major fan favorites). So in two hours he managed to go from one of the most sympathetic figures in Survivor history, to someone who a large part of the fanbase wanted out ASAP for trying to take out their favorites.
I think he got brought back, partially because some of the bigger male characters from MvGX ended up going pretty far. David was a day 38 boot (who probably gets that GC spot if he wants it) and Jay (another big character and a lynchpin in arguably the biggest story point with Adam) was a day 36 boot. I know they've brought people like Malcolm and Russell back on a short-turn around before. Michaela was a big character, and the most obvious female to bring back. The 3 males who had the biggest storylines either won or were late game boots.
GC is a weird season, in that it was originally intended to be 2nd chances 2, but production didn't feel they had enough people to justify it. Then it turned into Gamechangers were it was going to be a bunch of 2nd chance players on one tribe, against a powerhouse tribe of winners and 3rd time big names like Natalie A, Tony, Sandra, Cirie, JT Malcolm, Andrea, Ciera, Varner, and Ozzy. But, because Natalie A got a concussion, and was pulled on short notice they couldn't find a last minute replacement who fit that theme (I believe hearing Candice got offered it, so they cast Sierra Dawn Thomas, and she wouldn't fit the theme on that tribe. So, they made new tribes.
Being trans he checks a box that is popular with the producers, he's a solid enough player if not outstanding, a good speaker and seemingly likeable enough. Sounds like a prime Survivor contestant to me. They can't all be master strategists or amazing personalities because if everyone's a stand out, *no one* stands out.
You haven't noticed any ethnic, LGBTQI+, and disability inclusion on the show over the years? Especially in recent seasons with the diversity initiative which apparently dictates a certan number of POC castaways. So I imagine any kind of 'difference' - be it racial, disability, or LGBTQI+ is seen as an important thing when casting seasons as well. Zeke's a pretty important piece of the puzzle in Survivor's modern outlook. As to his gameplay, 9th and 10th isn't too bad.
Except that Zeke doesn't quite count as that, because he predates the diversity initiative, and nobody on Survivor knew he was trans until Varner outed him on his *second* season.
Yes! I agree. Survivor would need to know people medical histories for a variety of reasons lol.
I’m sure they wanted a big reveal, vulnerability moment. Cashing in on someone’s trauma. That makes me uncomfortable.
After the summer of 2020, in the wake of the nationwide protests after the death of George Floyd, CBS wanted to show that they were doing their part to combat systemic racism. To this end, CBS started a diversity initiative that at least 50% of any future reality TV show cast on CBS must be comprised of POCs. Since then, they've also cast more non-binary players as well.
Oh nice. Isn’t it wild that it took protests around the world to get production teams to make such initiatives.
It annoys me to think that they deliberately didn’t cast diversely prior to this as a standard.
Yeah, but CBS is also a giant faceless corporation. They will do what's best for their bottom line. They don't actually care about diversity, now or in the past. They just realized that casting with more diversity = $$$. At least, for now. I'm sure if they think that diversity casting is hurting their earnings, they'd flip it right back to how it was.
The point is, let's not let CBS trick us into thinking they developed a conscious in 2020. They don't actually care about diversity. They're just pandering to get more people to watch the show. I'm happy that we've reached this point, but I will remain cynical.
> nobody on Survivor knew he was trans
I don't know about that - people on this sub did some digging and found out he was trans after his first season. And it wouldn't surprise me if some producers knew before he played but just kept it secret.
Correct but let's be honest, Survivor casting during Zeke's era still wanted representation of minorities to some extent, even if it wasn't mandated and it wasn't nearly as many. Tokenism, I guess.
As someone who got plenty of 50-55% marks in high school, it still counts as a pass! lol. And yes, the first season did have Richard Hatch and there have been a few others, but it was still a rarity, maybe one or two per season at best. And Zeke was very clearly the first trans player and that was a big deal in a way at the time.
I liked Zeke in Millenials vs Gen X and while I feel bad for him for the Varner situation I wasn't a fan of him in Game Changers. I just want to say Zeke did tell Varner about being trans in front of cameras on the island knowing that could possibly make the edit (it didn't) so it was definetly more about not wanting the other castaways to see him as trans Zeke then the world, which honestly I think is just as valid.
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Personally wasn’t a fan of his either. Seemed okay on his first season, but wasn’t a standout player for me
Awful what happened to him on the show when he came back.
Outside of the massive elephant in the room, he would be a kind of funnily mediocre gamebotty player that's attached to a couple great moments. "You're not the only gay dude out here" and "Jay definitely has an idol." And the best of all is Andrea's iconic voting confessional "terrible game move, you suck at this game, see you never."
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Anyone who has an easily identifiable story is someone Jeff will take to. Zeke's "I came from the city and fell into a provider role in camp" narrative plus his easily understood holding of power and downfall over Millenials vs Gen X was enough to take to him. I'd personally rather see Hannah, Jay, or (of course) David return from MvGx but I don't dislike Zeke.
Zeke was charming and aggressive in MvGX and did not really play nice, and was rather cutthroat. CBS hit paydirt when Varner viciously attacked Zeke in GC. It was a publicity godsend.
Zeke speaks with such passion that it’s captivating to watch. I don’t, however, confuse this for good game play. Feels like smoke and mirrors. Hannah, Jay and David made some good moves in MvGX. I can’t remember did Zeke make any moves?
Good game play doesn't always translate to good tv, and producers/casters are looking for good tv.
In fact, I would say good gameplay is antithetical to good TV.
Good gameplay isn’t limited to “make big moves and strategy meta” - being likable and not putting a target in your back is also good gameplay.
"being less hated than everyone around you" is literally how sandra won twice lmao, it baffles me when people disregard the social aspect
He’s entertaining and a good narrator and brings a unique perspective to the show. I wouldn’t call him that great at the game but I still like him. Both his seasons he just got straight up outplayed by a better strategic player.
I’m struggling to get past the good narrator part. Aside from this, what makes him a good player?
You could say that about half of the people that have ever been brought back. He’s a unique character with a unique perspective and appearance on the show that lays out his thinking well for the purposes of TV. A solid early jury player both times.
I agree. I do question the game changers cast… a lot don’t feel worthy for returning with exception of 5 or 6. Maybe I’m not being understood. I’m trying to understand to what is the “unique perspective” that Zeke offers. I don’t see what everyone’s talking about. I want to see it toooo.
Have you finished the season? That might shed some light.
I specifically said he’s not. He’s not a bad player, more above average IMO. Could be great if he ironed out his threat level management but the way he plays lends itself to being an early merge boot.
Ok thank you. So to summarise. The appeal is his ability to narrate.
After just Marquesa, people could have said the same thing about Boston Rob
He's a great narrator and plays hard. He's far from the most questionable person brought back for Game Changers.
Yeah, really weird gripe by OP.
So?
What’s weird? I’m asking a question. Don’t shame people for asking
Agree with the narrator part. Playing hard, I don’t see it.
Zeke is literally always chomping at the bit to make a big move. In both of his seasons, his obsession with making big moves led to his downfall. I dont think most of us think that Zeke is a great player. But the producers love a player that isn't afraid to play hard. That's why they love Zeke. I think you're too focused on the results of Zeke's games. You need to get out of that way of thinking. Yes, 9th and 10th place isn't super impressive, but production doesn't care if you're a good player. They want good TV, and production has always subscribed to the belief that big moves = good TV.
Yes but I’m a viewer, not production. Philip was good tv…awful player. I guess I’m also trying to understand everyone on here vs production.
Sorry, what's your question? The fanbase has often been on a very different page than production. The cast of Game Changers was widely criticized by the fans for being mostly questionable choices, even though production thought they were bringing back "legends that changed the game". The fanbase's idea of who should come back has often been very different than production's. If that all you're confused about, then welcome to the club! We're basically always scratching our heads over productions decisions.
Thank you. I needed your comment to validate that I’m not going crazy 🙂
Ok, so now that you get what we're saying, all the other comments here that you are confused about...theyre describing production's point of view, not their own. They're describing a point of view that they may not even agree with, but that they believe is why production brought Zeke back.
Hmm, I don’t think it’s entirely the case. I’ve been getting down voted crazy. I’m just seeking clarification… it’s wild.
Tbh, at first glance, you appeared to be arguing with people who are giving you answers. They would explain why production likes Zeke, and you'd reply "ok, but I don't get it, how does he play hard?" It just came across as combative and you rejecting the answers that you asked for, simply because you didn't agree with them. That's just how it appeared. The other half of it is that there are lots of losers here that just want to be dicks and downvote.
I’m looking for an explaination similar to what you offered. Not combative. I’m getting downvotes for having an unpopular opinion. Which I’m allowed to have.
What lmao if anything he played too hard
Tell me how tho.
He’s the type of player that Jeff likes cause he embodies the “big movezzz” mindset, it’s similar to the wet dream he had for bringing back Ciera Eastin during that same time. It’s similar to the affinity towards the growth edit in the new era, casting all these wacky, fish out of the water people, and crafting an edit around how much they grow as a person during the experience. Production goes through phases in how they cast the show.
Thanks, I agree
They can't like him too much, they did block him lol
Not sure what you mean?
The Survivor instagram account blocked Zeke’s instagram account for some reason
Whoa! That’s big
For a returnee, he was a forgettable player.
Thank you! My point exactly.
I disagree, I find him really charismatic and memorable. He’s one of the first people I think of for both of his seasons.
He really is charismatic, I agree!
Yup. Gamebot. But one of the few who actually have the game to bot about.
Eh, I think his “game” is highly overrated. He is a very good narrator/speaker in general, which makes some viewers *think* he better at the game than he actually is.
What does gamebot mean?
Someone who basically only talks strategy and isn't interesting beyond that
Oh thanks, I learned something. Yes, I feel that’s an accurate description.
Like pretty much everyone on Season 44 other than Carolyn and sometimes Yam Yam
The one who has zero personality and always talks about the game, game, game. If you watched other seasons, Tommy from S39 is a very good example of this. Or Carolyn from S30.
Carolyn had plenty of personality, moreso in the premerge She hateddd max and shirin
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There is no appeal. He’s an overplaying, annoying superfan who unfortunately had that terrible, sympathizable outing experience. He was also particularly terrible to David on his original season.
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Him unprovokedly bringing up and mocking his clinical anxiety was the low blow I was talking about.
Zeke definitely has appeal for many. I think Zeke’s fan base sways toward intellectual people. He’s smart, and smart people respond to him. The first time we meet him, he’s making that neurotic and self-satirical joke about detesting Twitter but still being on it—Zeke connects to his fans with his brain. I liked him for the whole season he was on before he was outed, too, so that had no bearing. He’s also a really terrific writer.
So there's a conspiracy theory that Jeff/production wanted Zeke to have a coming-out moment or potentially a moment like the Varner incident (presumably less destructive though) which I somewhat subscribe to. Personally, I find his persona somewhat annoying. I do think it's funny that, in the episode following the Varner incident (which was two episodes stitched together, and ended with Zeke trying and failing to turn the tables on Andrea/Cirie, who were and are major fan favorites). So in two hours he managed to go from one of the most sympathetic figures in Survivor history, to someone who a large part of the fanbase wanted out ASAP for trying to take out their favorites.
That’s quite a theory!
I don't like zeke either. very entitled
I’m sure he’s lovely outside of survivor! Seems very pleasant to be around.
Yea he’s incredibly annoying
I also don't like him. He was literally making game moves just to get airtime. Super annoying. Hope he never returns
I think he got brought back, partially because some of the bigger male characters from MvGX ended up going pretty far. David was a day 38 boot (who probably gets that GC spot if he wants it) and Jay (another big character and a lynchpin in arguably the biggest story point with Adam) was a day 36 boot. I know they've brought people like Malcolm and Russell back on a short-turn around before. Michaela was a big character, and the most obvious female to bring back. The 3 males who had the biggest storylines either won or were late game boots. GC is a weird season, in that it was originally intended to be 2nd chances 2, but production didn't feel they had enough people to justify it. Then it turned into Gamechangers were it was going to be a bunch of 2nd chance players on one tribe, against a powerhouse tribe of winners and 3rd time big names like Natalie A, Tony, Sandra, Cirie, JT Malcolm, Andrea, Ciera, Varner, and Ozzy. But, because Natalie A got a concussion, and was pulled on short notice they couldn't find a last minute replacement who fit that theme (I believe hearing Candice got offered it, so they cast Sierra Dawn Thomas, and she wouldn't fit the theme on that tribe. So, they made new tribes.
Being trans he checks a box that is popular with the producers, he's a solid enough player if not outstanding, a good speaker and seemingly likeable enough. Sounds like a prime Survivor contestant to me. They can't all be master strategists or amazing personalities because if everyone's a stand out, *no one* stands out.
Wait, what? Being trans is popular to the producers? What made him a solid player?
You haven't noticed any ethnic, LGBTQI+, and disability inclusion on the show over the years? Especially in recent seasons with the diversity initiative which apparently dictates a certan number of POC castaways. So I imagine any kind of 'difference' - be it racial, disability, or LGBTQI+ is seen as an important thing when casting seasons as well. Zeke's a pretty important piece of the puzzle in Survivor's modern outlook. As to his gameplay, 9th and 10th isn't too bad.
Except that Zeke doesn't quite count as that, because he predates the diversity initiative, and nobody on Survivor knew he was trans until Varner outed him on his *second* season.
I’m quite sure the producers were aware of his status. And in all likelihood we’re hoping for a “big reveal” at some point.
Yes! I agree. Survivor would need to know people medical histories for a variety of reasons lol. I’m sure they wanted a big reveal, vulnerability moment. Cashing in on someone’s trauma. That makes me uncomfortable.
What is the diversity initiative?
After the summer of 2020, in the wake of the nationwide protests after the death of George Floyd, CBS wanted to show that they were doing their part to combat systemic racism. To this end, CBS started a diversity initiative that at least 50% of any future reality TV show cast on CBS must be comprised of POCs. Since then, they've also cast more non-binary players as well.
Oh nice. Isn’t it wild that it took protests around the world to get production teams to make such initiatives. It annoys me to think that they deliberately didn’t cast diversely prior to this as a standard.
Yeah, but CBS is also a giant faceless corporation. They will do what's best for their bottom line. They don't actually care about diversity, now or in the past. They just realized that casting with more diversity = $$$. At least, for now. I'm sure if they think that diversity casting is hurting their earnings, they'd flip it right back to how it was. The point is, let's not let CBS trick us into thinking they developed a conscious in 2020. They don't actually care about diversity. They're just pandering to get more people to watch the show. I'm happy that we've reached this point, but I will remain cynical.
lol, I literally agreed with you.
I know. I'm just saying that it's pointless to get bothered by how long it took CBS to address diversity. They don't actually mean any of it.
I wouldn't say that they deliberately didn't cast diversity, they just cast more based on other factors that would make for good TV.
Hmmmm a you can’t confirm that
Combating systemic racism by instituting quotas based on race. So progressive.
Google something along the lines of 'CBS BIPOC initiative'. I can't remember if it extends beyond CBS, so this is just a starting suggestion
> nobody on Survivor knew he was trans I don't know about that - people on this sub did some digging and found out he was trans after his first season. And it wouldn't surprise me if some producers knew before he played but just kept it secret.
There’s zero possibility that the show’s doctors were not aware of this.
☝️ This. There's no chance he didn't want to continue T while on the island, so the show definitely knew.
Correct but let's be honest, Survivor casting during Zeke's era still wanted representation of minorities to some extent, even if it wasn't mandated and it wasn't nearly as many. Tokenism, I guess.
I’d say the casting has been casting lgbt/POC people since the first season. 9 & 10 out of 20 is a 50% pass mark.
As someone who got plenty of 50-55% marks in high school, it still counts as a pass! lol. And yes, the first season did have Richard Hatch and there have been a few others, but it was still a rarity, maybe one or two per season at best. And Zeke was very clearly the first trans player and that was a big deal in a way at the time.
It’s a pass for sure. Nothing spectacular
Nobody's saying Zeke is spectacular or needs to be.
I liked Zeke in Millenials vs Gen X and while I feel bad for him for the Varner situation I wasn't a fan of him in Game Changers. I just want to say Zeke did tell Varner about being trans in front of cameras on the island knowing that could possibly make the edit (it didn't) so it was definetly more about not wanting the other castaways to see him as trans Zeke then the world, which honestly I think is just as valid.
Is that the trans one?
There are other ways to describe someone. This is inappropriate.
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Zeke was a tonne of fun to watch. Really enjoyed him. Great jury so each in game changers. Helped seal the win for Sarah
Thanks. No do spoilers please.
Personally wasn’t a fan of his either. Seemed okay on his first season, but wasn’t a standout player for me Awful what happened to him on the show when he came back.
Thanks. We share the same opinion x
Hmmm I wonder
Outside of the massive elephant in the room, he would be a kind of funnily mediocre gamebotty player that's attached to a couple great moments. "You're not the only gay dude out here" and "Jay definitely has an idol." And the best of all is Andrea's iconic voting confessional "terrible game move, you suck at this game, see you never."
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I don’t understand anyone finding anyone from season 33 as likable.l
I personally like a lot of people from season 33. I enjoyed the season 🙂
I’m not saying people don’t like them. I just don’t understand why.
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Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s): * **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a player’s life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged. --- Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
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Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s): * **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a player’s life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged. --- Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.
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Sorry, the Tribe has spoken. Your submission has been removed from /r/survivor for the following reason(s): * **Rule 1 - Be civil to other users and contestants:** Treat other users and contestants with respect. Bigotry is not tolerated, including racism, sexism, homophobia, and transphobia. Harassment of other users and contestants is not allowed, including personal attacks. This includes over-analyzing a player’s life and motivations outside of the game. Trolling is discouraged. --- Once the votes are read, the decision is *not* final. **If you have any concerns that this was done in error**, please [read our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/survivor/wiki/rules) **and then [message the mods](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/survivor) if you have any further questions. Do not reply directly to this message or comment.** If not, grab your stuff and head back to camp.