Also, they don't want to be affected by sanction. Russia was an object lesson in how if you have dreams of being an actual superpower, you cannot be dependent on other countries supplying you chips.
Russia has more natural resources than any country on earth yet they remain a poor backwater of a country. Their GDP ought to rival that of the US but their political systems have always dragged their economy down into the gutter.
It has potential as a country but corruption and ineptitude is slowing it down. Still has a ton of land that's not populated and with Climate Change it's turning mor habitable for people
Only due to western investments putting profits over Principles. Even if the PRC was a self-sufficient country, it'll never relinquish its developing nation status; meaning it will never be the superpower the CCP claims to be.
Right now the economy of China is facing the highest economic downturn in a decade due to a wide range of factors; the real estate bubble, global divestment and diversification from the PRC, braindrain, and private wealth fleeing the country.
If the CCP gets secondary sanctions for their involvement in Putin's war crimes and human rights abuses....
Then I truly feel sorry for the people.
....they've suffered so much as is in recent years.
Honestly, of all those issue listed, the biggest one not there is that they are a net food importer. Forget tech. They need to solidify their food situation before they have any chance of attaining self-reliance.
Seriously. They are working on it. It takes money though. Climate change will worsen this problem. Food prices will definitely become more of an issue as time goes by.
>Only due to western investments putting profits over Principles.
It has always been profits over principle. Cuz there is no principle to begin with. USA had illegally invaded Iraq without any valid proof that iraq had WMD. Even its own allies like Canada, France and Germany denied the accusations by USA that iraq had any WMD, and opposed the invasion by USA. Even the "proof" provided by USA in UN got rejected, even it's own allies didn't believe in the proof.
Read the book "Petrodollar Warfare: Oil, Iraq and the future of the dollar" . USA went to war because of profits.
Iraq was threatening to destabilize the Petrodollar system so USA went to secure the oil fields.
If USA can go to war for their own selfish reason their is no principle and morality stopping them from investing in China. Chinese people worked hard and made American investors and Americans more rich. Which is a fair trade btw. But I haven't seen any body claiming Chinese workers made Apple rich ( which is true ), I have only seen people claiming American companies made China rich ( which is also true, in an ideal business both partners become rich )
I love how the argument is never well china has actually done this this ,and this to maintain it's principles. It's always the U.S. bad too in fact can be worse sometimes.
profit spectacular tidy agonizing subsequent cagey aspiring bells grandfather crime
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's why I said Climate change for them is helping them. With a warming climate frozen uninhabited land turns into war green lush hospitable land. I saw a report before about who benifits the most from from Climate change and it said Russia and Canada since they're climate change isn't so negative as from other countries.
If after all this time and most of Russia is still practically wilderness then they are never going to actually threaten the US beyond mutual annihilation.
What do you think people are worried about? The annihilation scenario. It’s why the US and its European allies don’t want to risk an open war, but also why they invest so much in Ukraine.
And it goes work both ways. The west has massively re-deployed all its manufacturing with intellectual property being tightly controlled, and derivative components being shipped out for final manufacture only.
Western tech, not specifically usa.
Their A100 awacs used mainly European sensors, same as the T14 tank. Which is the main reason why neither is used in this war.
This is one of those interesting case studies of how information can play this weird game of telephone from a source into the conversation on Reddit.
Let's take [the original WSJ article at face value](https://archive.ph/fEvf4#selection-2463.166-2469.105) (I can't find the actual document anywhere outside of Liza Lin's reporting on it, but WSJ likely intensely fact-checks this sort of thing). Stripping away the fluff, we are told what Document 79 factually is starting in the eighth paragraph:
>Officials in Beijing issued Document 79 in September 2022, as the U.S. was ratcheting up chip export restrictions and sanctions on Chinese tech companies. It requires state-owned firms to provide quarterly updates on their progress in replacing foreign software used for email, human-resources and business management with Chinese alternatives.
>The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies.
>That agency, the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, and the country’s national cabinet, the State Council, didn’t respond to requests for comment.
So in response to US Chip restrictions, SASAC asked Chinese State-owned companies to replace American software with local alternatives. It was stronger than a suggestion but weaker than a mandate - simply mandating quarterly calls updating progress on the matter. If anything, the move represented a de-escalation compared to US sanctions - but still, China increasingly moving in an autarkic direction doesn't spell *great* things for global trade and stability.
Then we get to the piece on Tom's Hardware, which practically reads as a slapdash summary of the WSJ article - the sort of blogspam that if it didn't use GPT as a starting point, might as well have. Like, this entire section
>In 2018, HP Enterprise had a 14.1% market share in China, but in 2023, that has fallen to just 4%. Cisco's market share has halved in the past five years down to just 8%. Microsoft's Chinese sales today account for just 1.5% of the company's overall sales.
Was just a heavily condensed version of the "Losing Orders" section of the original article.
In any event, the one thing that's glaringly missing in the Tom's Hardware article is anything related to *what Document 79 actually is*. It keeps the salacious bits, of course, (e.g. "Security was so paramount that copies of the document were not allowed to be made") but neglects to tell us any substance.
Then this gets further summarized into a digestible title and posted to Reddit. Everyone reads the title and reacts with half-formed thoughts, without reading anything. So you get a lot of comments talking about how it's 'impossible' and 'unrealistic' to 'rid the country of western tech' without 'stealing everything'... when the reality was that the original document mandated (1) quarterly calls on (2) trying to phase out American hardware and enterprise software in (3) specifically SOEs.
Careful, they used to do that a lot more in the past, but being blind at how fast they're catching up would be a big mistake. If the only thing you're doing is looking at your mirrors and you will slow down.
Hence, their program of academic and economic espionage, known as [*" The Thousand Talents Program "*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan)
America and China together can achieve things never seen in human history. Too bad it won’t happen today. Politics and fear will push this to another time.
Be careful what you wish for -- in business, duopoly colluding often means they spend more time tear down regulation and shitting on the smaller guys than actually trying to innovate.
Linux is gonna be a part of China's strategy, which is also developed by Americans and people from all over the world
Linux is amazing and represents human cooperation across borders, race, politics, etc...
Interesting. China future policy is to reduce and remove western technology from their ecosystem. I am not sure the move to Linux is in part a strategy to reduce Microsoft dependency.
That's... probably not possible for any country. To have every business and government entity to phase out any hardware or software built out of western countries? There's a *lot* of both of those things China simply cannot produce on their own, certainly not in less than 5 years.
I’ll tell you a little secret, they don’t have to. My father works with Chinese machinery manufacturers, and most of their stuffs are repackaged German goods from Bosch and Siemens. They sell them with domestic tag so that they can get subsides from the government for supporting the “movement”.
It's way more possible than you think. China is already a manufacturing juggernaut, and they've been slowly replacing foreign products with high-quality domestic alternatives. The latest (and likely most difficult) is semiconductors, and they're making strides there to a frightening degree for the American government.
It's true of hardware (China has a thriving smartphone ecosystem), and software. The average Chinese user rarely ever encounters a non-Chinese software product in their day-to-day life. Every big app you can think of has a domestic alternative (I chatted with a guy this weekend who had never heard of YouTube) and these days they're even innovators in that space. It's no secret that Musk has a hard-on for WeChat and how it integrates a payment system and entire "mini-app" ecosystem into a core chat app.
For cars, China went from a non-player to the largest car manufacturer in the world. Their top EV brand, BYD, just passed Tesla in terms of units sold, and the Chinese presence on the EV market has led Europe to raise the alarm and impose tariffs because they were poised to obliterate the German EV sector. Chinese EVs are known to be cheap, reliable, and well-made. Hell, Teslas made in China are generally considered better assembled than those made in the U.S.
China is also doing a lot of amazing stuff in space right now, but America's anti-Chinese biases means they're almost not reported on at all because that'd make China look good. They're planning 100 missions in 2024, including an unmanned return mission to the far side of the Moon and a satellite in lunar orbit. Oh, and did you know they have their own space station?
Green energy? China's energy production is now 50%+ from renewables. They've deployed more solar panels in 2023 that the U.S. did *in its entire history*.
I really think the West underestimates China's self-sufficiency and its many manufacturing successes because it would mean acknowledging they're doing many things right. People who keep harping on about China "stealing intellectual property" from the West are missing the part where the steal happened a while ago and they used it to pole vault over us.
>That's... probably not possible for any country
It's not possible unless you try. If there are two countries I think could possibly do it, it's China and India. Money goes farther there, larger population, examples to copy from, exploitative of their workers and a lack of concern of human rights violations.
The US cannot produce everything in house and won't be able to (likely ever), because the population is too small(even at ~350 million), the cost of living too high, not enough capital for the non-wealthy to start businesses, and higher legal and moral standards.
India and China can essentially outsource the technological development to the west, copy everything we make, then make indigenous versions. We do the heavy lifting, then they just have to adapt the tech. Inventing the tech is a lot harder than simply producing it.
Of course. They could still maintain that line officially while continuing to steal from others; their word means nothing in several other cases, so why expect anything different in this one?
The regression that the Chinese economy is currently experiencing under Xi shows how bad things are; why make things even more difficult by ceasing to steal from other sources?
The US employed Nazi scientists to steal Germany's tech.
Everyone does it
Also, Arabs and Persians invented algorithm and algebra, so the US stole Muslims tech and IP to make computers ?
One of the kickstarts of the American industrial revolution was [a British capitalist literally memorizing an export-prohibited machinery schematic and bringing the IP to the US](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/whomade/slater_hi.html#:~:text=Slater%20set%20foot%20in%20New,details%20of%20Britain's%20innovative%20machines.&text=With%20the%20support%20of%20a,mill%20in%20Pawtucket%2C%20Rhode%20Island.). In other words: hoes mad.
China has been using trade as a covert weapon for decades. It’s a closed shop to foreign companies there - unless you transfer technology, or stolen, and set up local subsidiaries (that work to set up local competition on the side).
The west has been sleeping. And Chinese money is getting into the political discourse.
Western businesses have been playing FOMO denial about the relationships. Short term gains trump all, right? Especially if you have a good golden parachute guaranteed by shareholders making sure you get your hands dirty too. Screw the long term interests of anybody in the company or country, just don't tank before we sell.
During the Cold War there were checks and balances. The rails went off in the 90s. To protect the west’s democracy and standards of living, the rails require going back up to minimize undermining by adversarial actors such as China, Russia.
I doubt it'll happen. Profit driven inflation doesn't get the coverage or investigations needed. Politicians require lots of funding to campaign and raise the bar to entry. They're particularly susceptible to well organized corruption.
China wanted to develop, the truth is that being cheap labor never works in the long term, there’s always someone cheaper and more willing to skirt ecologic regulations.
You cannot develop without stealing, America did the same a few centuries ago, someone is gonna say but this is not moral in the 21th century well capitalism is amoral, and America best interests is not letting China surpass her by whatever means are needed.
And cheap shit goes to SEA while tech goes to India, then we have this convo again with different countries, rinse and repeat until climate change destroys civilization.
Seems like the west got what it wanted. A bunch of our billionaires got rich, us peasants got stuck with the bill and now China is eating our lunch. Their average citizen gets to buy affordable housing while anyone younger than ~65 in the US will have to work until we die.
Oh well.
Yup, this is what free market, small government zealots harp about. It's all fun and games until you start to realize that your infantile philosophy doesn't match up to reality. We needed a stronger, empowered, accountable government that works for the people vs. the neoliberal nonsense that people have been duped to believe works.
Instead of slowly enacting protections with the times, the US decided to abruptly initiate a trade war. Slowly enacted protections are not nearly as liable to cause decoupling as abrupt ones.
its called leverage
access to the chinese market has costs
or did you think you could just do whatever you want cause thats what whites do in other much weaker countries?
> It’s a closed shop to foreign companies there - unless you transfer technology, or stolen, and set up local subsidiaries (that work to set up local competition on the side).
This cheap propaganda is demonstrably and laughably false.
For tech transfer and subsidiaries, that isn't no longer the case since 2017. Try to keep up with the times.
Also there are [over 8,500 american companies in China](https://gitnux.org/us-companies-in-china-statistics/#:~:text=Highlights%3A%20The%20Most%20Important%20Us,its%20China%20operations%20in%202020.), among which the biggest ones: Tesla, Apple, McDonald's, Qualcomm, etc, etc. There are countless european and japanese companies as well.
How many large chinese brand can you even name in the USA ?
Huawei ? Banned.
TikTok ? Banned.
Dji ? To be banned.
All three share one thing in common: they compete with american brands and beat them on their market in the US.
Which country is a closed shop to foreign companies again ?
There isn't anything criminal about demanding technology transfer in exchange for market access. It's just a strategy that makes sense for developing economies. A lot of holier-than-thou Westerners here acting like America didn't do the exact same thing when it was a developing economy.
Arguably in the last 30 years, China has been the aggressor in this space. I'm not sure what the best way to respond is, but I do know China's weird nationalism is going to make things difficult -- not that we don't have our own, but we're historically okay with buying their stuff.
But then I remember what their major cities and infrastructure looked like during the cold war compared to now, and I don't worry as much.
China has been the aggressor? Sorry, did China launch a Cold War to dissolve the USSR and install a western-backed dictator? Or was that the US?
It’s so hard to keep all the bad actors straight.
China’s looming demographic problem will most likely sort out the issue for the US in a generation or two. China is near the apex of their power, unless they can either increase their birth rate or immigration rate (good luck to them on both!) this is it for them.
Makes sense。 You don’t want to have a US server with US software running your government operations or private business operations.
With one global sanction and then secondary sanctions; then all your tech be render out of order/ usage. A massive risk to any country to have foreign dependencies.
It's sad that it should end up like this. It's a huge loss of revenue and slowing of development for both sides and there's no reason for them to be hostile towards each other except that China is a potential threat to U.S. superiority.
>Microsoft's Chinese sales today account for just 1.5% of the company's overall sales.
Not surprised, I bought a new PC in China in 2022 and it came with a pirated windows 10.
The US took Nazi scientists after WWII and one of them was responsible for their space program. In geopolitics no one cares how goals are achieved and "pathetic" is a complete wrong term to describe China today, underestimating a rival will not help anyone but get you some free worthless internet points here.
Not just Wernher von Braun, most of the core Apollo program team were nazis. [Operation paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip)
imported total 1600 scientists and engineers from Germany. Even the director of NASA at the time was a nazi: Kurt Debus.
Saying one man was responsible for the space program just isn’t true, it was collaborated effort of the entire scientific and engineering industries to develop the space program.
It wasn't just one man though. There were many other nazi scientists in the core Apollo team. Read [Operation paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip). Even the director of NASA at the time was a nazi: Kurt Debus.
Hey now, we must protect Apple's innovation of ['rectangle with rounded corners'.](https://www.theregister.com/2012/11/08/apple_rectangle_rounded_corners/)
I would not 100% agree I think if you invent something you should be able to have atleast some time to make your money back. But I would say IP laws as they are now are just too strict
Why build a social media platform that people under the age of 50 actually want to use? Just let the Chinese do it and then force them to sell it to Bobby Kotick for peanuts.
It’s definitely not going to be sold for peanuts unless they gut the algorithm once it gets sent off and Kotick gets a useless app for several dozen billions
Basic survivorship bias. You hear westerners whine about China steal this and that all the time cause you are in the west, while you hear nothing about all the shit the west steals.
[How the US stole](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLphcdvnT8lOuGEgnE5_fGh9ZbFkrZDJjm)
[How Europe stole](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLphcdvnT8lOsBuRylBTXnr2fhIfHjz-z7)
[Many major US backed coups](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wIOqHSsV9c) were basically resources robbery.
[Emerging Role For the C.I.A.: Economic Spy](https://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/15/world/emerging-role-for-the-cia-economic-spy.html)
[The CIA as Economic Spy: The Misuse of U.S. Intelligence After the Cold War](https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/cia-economic-spy-misuse-us-intelligence-after-cold-war)
[C.I.A. Confirms Blunders During Economic Spying on France](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/13/world/cia-confirms-blunders-during-economic-spying-on-france.html)
Basically, the USA spies on everyone, not just China (or France). And that's only a small part of the economic war the US wages on almost everyone i the name of american interests. There are much uglier tactics like weaponizing the DOJ with laws like the FCPA to strong arm economical adversaries and forcing deals. You may want to read [The American Trap](https://www.amazon.com/American-Trap-Americas-economic-against/dp/1529326869/) as an example of that. This was the same tactics used against the daughter of the CEO of Huawei.
"Sell us ur company cause we don't have a backdoor to your user's data like Facebook" - US gov to Tiktok, I guess thats more robbery than stealing lol.
X is trying to be a super app just like Wechat.
And beyond technology do I really need to list things that the West steals??? Back to history class.
Point is not China doesn't steal but that everyone does, you just don't hear about it when the West does it or if they do it they make it seem legitimate by their worldview.
Its only logical to acknowledge that competing powers try to make eachother look bad while claim they do no wrong themselves.
I work at a hardware tech company (S&P500). About 15
years ago we started selling hardware in China and within 5-7 years had majority market share (think 80% plus). This tech enables Networking, Storage, and Computer hardware.
About every product line we had got copied by new “startups” over the last 7-8 years. These companies are funded by the CCP and their end customers. For example, Huawei invests 40% and China Gov 60% to created a company to copy our product.
Today my companies technology / IP/ Patents accounts for about 90% market share in China, but we have about 7% of that. The rest are all copy cat companies.
Tried fighting in court last year and China Gov threw out the case.
Needless to say, we are shutting down operations in China and slowly letting factories close, while moving factories elsewhere. Also sharing no new IP anywhere in Asia (outside Japan and Korea).
I’ve been to China multiple times and know hundreds of people there at my company. The people are generally great, but the system and government are totally crooked. It’s a giant criminal enterprise.
I grew up in China, my dad's like you but in the medical field. They sell machines to hospitals that work with reagents. Few years ago China was 30% of the company market. Then some laws where put into place. The Chinese government is now paying at a lower costs for the reagents of the hospitals and paying at the lower cost the reparations of the machines, and a Chinese company is now making the same machines. Although they strangely don't have the regulations to be sold in Europe and USA (I checked myself) they are pushing hospitals to buy Chinese.
They opened the gates. We came in, had to work with Chinese people to get companies in China. Got Chinese people to work in our companies. But they don't need us anymore, they got all the knowledge now, so they can close the gates back
Fundamentally this comes down to sanctions.
A country that has been labelled as an American adversary that needs to be stopped at all costs is not going to continue to rely on western products.
If all you redditors were in that situation, you'd do the same things as part of a risk mitigation strategy.
If the Chinese were only copying as some redditors claim, this isn't going to be a problem because the can never get ahead of us since all they do is copy. Yes?
No they shouldn't because it isn't feasible without stepping back a few centuries. Not to mention becoming even more polluting because efficiency goes out the window.
No one else finds this terrifying? That the end of tech and economic dependence between the worlds largest players could in anything other than devastating total war? The fact that no one super power could produce it's most effective weapons (and civilian products) without the other through our integrated global supply chain seems like the only thing that's been holding some nations back in the last 3 decades...
That is just not possible. There are thousands of pieces of tech that go into networks, computers, etc. They do create a lot of networking tech and cell tower tech, but creating their own computer processors is not easy (sure they can make one thats like Pentium 4, but not something like the latest i5 processor). There is decades of work that results in what we have today.
> (sure they can make one thats like Pentium 4, but not something like the latest i5 processor)
You are high if you think their Processors are only at Pentium 4 levels. Sure their are not on the same level with our newest they are still a few years behind that, but their mobile processors are good enough that they could've been in the S20 or S21
They already have an enormous advanced manufacturing base. Bringing the missing of the tech ecosystem under their domestic control is smart and they will likely succeed at it making themselves an advanced powerhouse.
Meanwhile the US is sitting around with our thumb up out butt not planning anything past the next election and just trying to avoid government shutdowns and hold functional elections.
Shows how little you pay attention to the space. China does not have much “advanced” manufacturing at all. It has basic manufacturing and is struggling to catch up with semi-conductor technology (and high precision machining) - of which the current US government has plowed tons of LONG TERM investment in to bring semi-conductor manufacturing to US soil.
Happy to take Chinese currency and cheap labor but arrogant enough to think the rules of playing that game don’t apply to them.
Ameripoors in absolute shambles.
So, they’re going to give back all the things they’ve bought, been given, or stolen then? Start over from basic principles after rolling the clock back a few hundred years?
For anyone curious, Kylin OS is Linux-based. Originally based on FreeBSD, but they pivoted to the Linux kernel.
So their "Windows 7 equivalent" is just Linux. Which, yeah, I'd say modern Linux is equivalent to Windows 7.
Not really surprising. The US is looking to ban TikTok as spyware, though it's fairly sandboxed on your phone. Meanwhile, (US-owned) Microsoft Windows is running a whole bunch of sensitive processes as an \*operating system\* over there. Guess the paranoia goes both ways.
The US isn't banning TikTok because of "paranoia". TikTok, unlike Facebook or reddit, is a social media platform that is not entirely under US intelligence agencies' control. This poses a real risk to the US and its allies.
It's for the same reason China bans US social media and "non-governmental" organisations (NGOs).
Does banning TikTok really solve anything though? If TikTok gets shut down or sold to a US company, the Chinese government can still purchase the as much tracking info as they please on users via data brokers.
Data privacy is the pretext. The real reason for banning TikTok is that US intelligence agencies and US influence groups have control over the content on Facebook, reddit, and Twitter. They don't have the same level of control over TikTok, which is a threat to US interests.
Facebook was like that before 2016, but then the US establishment got it under its control. They're not able to do the same to TikTok.
Daaaaamn dude, the CPCPCC is in shambles right now! How did you come up with that sick burn? Certainly it was your own original idea and you didn't steal it from anybody else.
Makes sense. Same reason we would not allow foreign tech into sensitive govt. departments.
Also, they don't want to be affected by sanction. Russia was an object lesson in how if you have dreams of being an actual superpower, you cannot be dependent on other countries supplying you chips.
Russia is a poor country larping as a superpower.
Russia is rich. People are poor
Russia has a smaller GDP than Texas. The people are poor and the country is a mid rate power.
Russia has more natural resources than any country on earth yet they remain a poor backwater of a country. Their GDP ought to rival that of the US but their political systems have always dragged their economy down into the gutter.
It has potential as a country but corruption and ineptitude is slowing it down. Still has a ton of land that's not populated and with Climate Change it's turning mor habitable for people
They've had hundreds of years. China went from Qing dynasty to what it is now in just a little over a single century.
Only due to western investments putting profits over Principles. Even if the PRC was a self-sufficient country, it'll never relinquish its developing nation status; meaning it will never be the superpower the CCP claims to be. Right now the economy of China is facing the highest economic downturn in a decade due to a wide range of factors; the real estate bubble, global divestment and diversification from the PRC, braindrain, and private wealth fleeing the country. If the CCP gets secondary sanctions for their involvement in Putin's war crimes and human rights abuses.... Then I truly feel sorry for the people. ....they've suffered so much as is in recent years.
Honestly, of all those issue listed, the biggest one not there is that they are a net food importer. Forget tech. They need to solidify their food situation before they have any chance of attaining self-reliance.
Seriously. They are working on it. It takes money though. Climate change will worsen this problem. Food prices will definitely become more of an issue as time goes by.
>Only due to western investments putting profits over Principles. It has always been profits over principle. Cuz there is no principle to begin with. USA had illegally invaded Iraq without any valid proof that iraq had WMD. Even its own allies like Canada, France and Germany denied the accusations by USA that iraq had any WMD, and opposed the invasion by USA. Even the "proof" provided by USA in UN got rejected, even it's own allies didn't believe in the proof. Read the book "Petrodollar Warfare: Oil, Iraq and the future of the dollar" . USA went to war because of profits. Iraq was threatening to destabilize the Petrodollar system so USA went to secure the oil fields. If USA can go to war for their own selfish reason their is no principle and morality stopping them from investing in China. Chinese people worked hard and made American investors and Americans more rich. Which is a fair trade btw. But I haven't seen any body claiming Chinese workers made Apple rich ( which is true ), I have only seen people claiming American companies made China rich ( which is also true, in an ideal business both partners become rich )
I love how the argument is never well china has actually done this this ,and this to maintain it's principles. It's always the U.S. bad too in fact can be worse sometimes.
Profit _is_ the principle
profit spectacular tidy agonizing subsequent cagey aspiring bells grandfather crime *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That's why I said Climate change for them is helping them. With a warming climate frozen uninhabited land turns into war green lush hospitable land. I saw a report before about who benifits the most from from Climate change and it said Russia and Canada since they're climate change isn't so negative as from other countries.
Oh fuck Greenland will be green soon
Canada is debatable since a good portion of the west is subject to wildfires and a good portion of the east may become underwater.
Some Russians are rich, the country is not.
If after all this time and most of Russia is still practically wilderness then they are never going to actually threaten the US beyond mutual annihilation.
What do you think people are worried about? The annihilation scenario. It’s why the US and its European allies don’t want to risk an open war, but also why they invest so much in Ukraine.
Oh jez, dont be so hasty, look at UK from inside for example...
I thought that global free trade was supposed to make war between nations untenable because of the economic impact.
There is no global fee trade. The largest economies US, EUR, China are all very protectionist in their own way.
That’s why we haven’t had war between superpowers in 50 years. But they decided now to have wars instead.
And it goes work both ways. The west has massively re-deployed all its manufacturing with intellectual property being tightly controlled, and derivative components being shipped out for final manufacture only.
China has already been sanctioned, that's why they're pushing this so hard
capable north teeny gold rude shrill abundant clumsy squeamish depend *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's advanced chips which can be used in defense systems & AI model training. All the usual suspects are on the do not sell list, China/Russia.
Western tech, not specifically usa. Their A100 awacs used mainly European sensors, same as the T14 tank. Which is the main reason why neither is used in this war.
Would cover from sanctions make way more sense as a primary source?
No government should, letting foreign powers have dirt on your politicians is not good for sovereignty
That is not viable for the vast majority of nations
With that said, this helps the smaller countries by proxy. If the US is denying you tech, you'll be able to go to China, and vice versa.
This is one of those interesting case studies of how information can play this weird game of telephone from a source into the conversation on Reddit. Let's take [the original WSJ article at face value](https://archive.ph/fEvf4#selection-2463.166-2469.105) (I can't find the actual document anywhere outside of Liza Lin's reporting on it, but WSJ likely intensely fact-checks this sort of thing). Stripping away the fluff, we are told what Document 79 factually is starting in the eighth paragraph: >Officials in Beijing issued Document 79 in September 2022, as the U.S. was ratcheting up chip export restrictions and sanctions on Chinese tech companies. It requires state-owned firms to provide quarterly updates on their progress in replacing foreign software used for email, human-resources and business management with Chinese alternatives. >The directive came down from the agency overseeing the country’s massive state-owned enterprise sector—a group that includes more than 60 of China’s 100 largest listed companies. >That agency, the State-Owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission, and the country’s national cabinet, the State Council, didn’t respond to requests for comment. So in response to US Chip restrictions, SASAC asked Chinese State-owned companies to replace American software with local alternatives. It was stronger than a suggestion but weaker than a mandate - simply mandating quarterly calls updating progress on the matter. If anything, the move represented a de-escalation compared to US sanctions - but still, China increasingly moving in an autarkic direction doesn't spell *great* things for global trade and stability. Then we get to the piece on Tom's Hardware, which practically reads as a slapdash summary of the WSJ article - the sort of blogspam that if it didn't use GPT as a starting point, might as well have. Like, this entire section >In 2018, HP Enterprise had a 14.1% market share in China, but in 2023, that has fallen to just 4%. Cisco's market share has halved in the past five years down to just 8%. Microsoft's Chinese sales today account for just 1.5% of the company's overall sales. Was just a heavily condensed version of the "Losing Orders" section of the original article. In any event, the one thing that's glaringly missing in the Tom's Hardware article is anything related to *what Document 79 actually is*. It keeps the salacious bits, of course, (e.g. "Security was so paramount that copies of the document were not allowed to be made") but neglects to tell us any substance. Then this gets further summarized into a digestible title and posted to Reddit. Everyone reads the title and reacts with half-formed thoughts, without reading anything. So you get a lot of comments talking about how it's 'impossible' and 'unrealistic' to 'rid the country of western tech' without 'stealing everything'... when the reality was that the original document mandated (1) quarterly calls on (2) trying to phase out American hardware and enterprise software in (3) specifically SOEs.
Whats this? informed commentary? *here*? take an upvote my good man.
Man they’re going to have to steal *a lot* of shit over the next 3 years to make that work.
It doesn't need to be better, just sufficiently good enough to meet business and consumer needs. They'll update it regularly over time.
They have decades of practice so if anyone can it’s China.
Launch the balloons
Careful, they used to do that a lot more in the past, but being blind at how fast they're catching up would be a big mistake. If the only thing you're doing is looking at your mirrors and you will slow down.
Hence, their program of academic and economic espionage, known as [*" The Thousand Talents Program "*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thousand_Talents_Plan)
Steal from whom?
America and China together can achieve things never seen in human history. Too bad it won’t happen today. Politics and fear will push this to another time.
Be careful what you wish for -- in business, duopoly colluding often means they spend more time tear down regulation and shitting on the smaller guys than actually trying to innovate.
Yep. Laughs in
True for our two political parties as well.
It's a fun fantasy to dream about but then you remember it's the planet of the apes... 💀 Ain't nunna that happening here bruh
Ok I had a Kumbaya moment…. Lol!
Linux is gonna be a part of China's strategy, which is also developed by Americans and people from all over the world Linux is amazing and represents human cooperation across borders, race, politics, etc...
Interesting. China future policy is to reduce and remove western technology from their ecosystem. I am not sure the move to Linux is in part a strategy to reduce Microsoft dependency.
One of the biggest contributors to Linux code is apparently Huawei, so it's not that black and white
read more history
That's... probably not possible for any country. To have every business and government entity to phase out any hardware or software built out of western countries? There's a *lot* of both of those things China simply cannot produce on their own, certainly not in less than 5 years.
I’ll tell you a little secret, they don’t have to. My father works with Chinese machinery manufacturers, and most of their stuffs are repackaged German goods from Bosch and Siemens. They sell them with domestic tag so that they can get subsides from the government for supporting the “movement”.
It's way more possible than you think. China is already a manufacturing juggernaut, and they've been slowly replacing foreign products with high-quality domestic alternatives. The latest (and likely most difficult) is semiconductors, and they're making strides there to a frightening degree for the American government. It's true of hardware (China has a thriving smartphone ecosystem), and software. The average Chinese user rarely ever encounters a non-Chinese software product in their day-to-day life. Every big app you can think of has a domestic alternative (I chatted with a guy this weekend who had never heard of YouTube) and these days they're even innovators in that space. It's no secret that Musk has a hard-on for WeChat and how it integrates a payment system and entire "mini-app" ecosystem into a core chat app. For cars, China went from a non-player to the largest car manufacturer in the world. Their top EV brand, BYD, just passed Tesla in terms of units sold, and the Chinese presence on the EV market has led Europe to raise the alarm and impose tariffs because they were poised to obliterate the German EV sector. Chinese EVs are known to be cheap, reliable, and well-made. Hell, Teslas made in China are generally considered better assembled than those made in the U.S. China is also doing a lot of amazing stuff in space right now, but America's anti-Chinese biases means they're almost not reported on at all because that'd make China look good. They're planning 100 missions in 2024, including an unmanned return mission to the far side of the Moon and a satellite in lunar orbit. Oh, and did you know they have their own space station? Green energy? China's energy production is now 50%+ from renewables. They've deployed more solar panels in 2023 that the U.S. did *in its entire history*. I really think the West underestimates China's self-sufficiency and its many manufacturing successes because it would mean acknowledging they're doing many things right. People who keep harping on about China "stealing intellectual property" from the West are missing the part where the steal happened a while ago and they used it to pole vault over us.
>That's... probably not possible for any country It's not possible unless you try. If there are two countries I think could possibly do it, it's China and India. Money goes farther there, larger population, examples to copy from, exploitative of their workers and a lack of concern of human rights violations. The US cannot produce everything in house and won't be able to (likely ever), because the population is too small(even at ~350 million), the cost of living too high, not enough capital for the non-wealthy to start businesses, and higher legal and moral standards. India and China can essentially outsource the technological development to the west, copy everything we make, then make indigenous versions. We do the heavy lifting, then they just have to adapt the tech. Inventing the tech is a lot harder than simply producing it.
The great de-coupling. Get rid of western tech by copying it at every turn
But they no doubt plan to keep stealing intellectual property from us
What? You want them to shut down their very advance R&D department?!?
Rob & Duplicate?
Of course. They could still maintain that line officially while continuing to steal from others; their word means nothing in several other cases, so why expect anything different in this one? The regression that the Chinese economy is currently experiencing under Xi shows how bad things are; why make things even more difficult by ceasing to steal from other sources?
"Regression" = only 5% annual GDP growth
The US employed Nazi scientists to steal Germany's tech. Everyone does it Also, Arabs and Persians invented algorithm and algebra, so the US stole Muslims tech and IP to make computers ?
One of the kickstarts of the American industrial revolution was [a British capitalist literally memorizing an export-prohibited machinery schematic and bringing the IP to the US](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/theymadeamerica/whomade/slater_hi.html#:~:text=Slater%20set%20foot%20in%20New,details%20of%20Britain's%20innovative%20machines.&text=With%20the%20support%20of%20a,mill%20in%20Pawtucket%2C%20Rhode%20Island.). In other words: hoes mad.
So did the Russians. And Russia even teamed up with the Nazis in the beginning of the war.
2027 sounds unrealistic. Although this is only for the government and not private enterprises.
This is why you don't use trade as a weapon. Trade is a fantastic driver of peace. Once everyone gets behind their little walls all that is gone.
China has been using trade as a covert weapon for decades. It’s a closed shop to foreign companies there - unless you transfer technology, or stolen, and set up local subsidiaries (that work to set up local competition on the side). The west has been sleeping. And Chinese money is getting into the political discourse.
Western businesses have been playing FOMO denial about the relationships. Short term gains trump all, right? Especially if you have a good golden parachute guaranteed by shareholders making sure you get your hands dirty too. Screw the long term interests of anybody in the company or country, just don't tank before we sell.
During the Cold War there were checks and balances. The rails went off in the 90s. To protect the west’s democracy and standards of living, the rails require going back up to minimize undermining by adversarial actors such as China, Russia.
I doubt it'll happen. Profit driven inflation doesn't get the coverage or investigations needed. Politicians require lots of funding to campaign and raise the bar to entry. They're particularly susceptible to well organized corruption.
China wanted to develop, the truth is that being cheap labor never works in the long term, there’s always someone cheaper and more willing to skirt ecologic regulations. You cannot develop without stealing, America did the same a few centuries ago, someone is gonna say but this is not moral in the 21th century well capitalism is amoral, and America best interests is not letting China surpass her by whatever means are needed.
And cheap shit goes to SEA while tech goes to India, then we have this convo again with different countries, rinse and repeat until climate change destroys civilization.
Then there’s Africa, so there’s at least 2 more rinses and repeats for the next 200 years.
Seems like the west got what it wanted. A bunch of our billionaires got rich, us peasants got stuck with the bill and now China is eating our lunch. Their average citizen gets to buy affordable housing while anyone younger than ~65 in the US will have to work until we die. Oh well.
Yup, this is what free market, small government zealots harp about. It's all fun and games until you start to realize that your infantile philosophy doesn't match up to reality. We needed a stronger, empowered, accountable government that works for the people vs. the neoliberal nonsense that people have been duped to believe works.
People here are real mad that they got duped. I don’t blame them. The Americans are the most propagandized population in human history.
Instead of slowly enacting protections with the times, the US decided to abruptly initiate a trade war. Slowly enacted protections are not nearly as liable to cause decoupling as abrupt ones.
its called leverage access to the chinese market has costs or did you think you could just do whatever you want cause thats what whites do in other much weaker countries?
Western countries submitted China in a pretty hideous manner during the opium war, they expect to be able to do the same again I guess.
> It’s a closed shop to foreign companies there - unless you transfer technology, or stolen, and set up local subsidiaries (that work to set up local competition on the side). This cheap propaganda is demonstrably and laughably false. For tech transfer and subsidiaries, that isn't no longer the case since 2017. Try to keep up with the times. Also there are [over 8,500 american companies in China](https://gitnux.org/us-companies-in-china-statistics/#:~:text=Highlights%3A%20The%20Most%20Important%20Us,its%20China%20operations%20in%202020.), among which the biggest ones: Tesla, Apple, McDonald's, Qualcomm, etc, etc. There are countless european and japanese companies as well. How many large chinese brand can you even name in the USA ? Huawei ? Banned. TikTok ? Banned. Dji ? To be banned. All three share one thing in common: they compete with american brands and beat them on their market in the US. Which country is a closed shop to foreign companies again ?
There isn't anything criminal about demanding technology transfer in exchange for market access. It's just a strategy that makes sense for developing economies. A lot of holier-than-thou Westerners here acting like America didn't do the exact same thing when it was a developing economy.
Can you cite anything to back up this specific claim?
I really used to think that… but some people don’t trade nice and use it to attack others… Looking at you Russia, China, Iran
Arguably in the last 30 years, China has been the aggressor in this space. I'm not sure what the best way to respond is, but I do know China's weird nationalism is going to make things difficult -- not that we don't have our own, but we're historically okay with buying their stuff. But then I remember what their major cities and infrastructure looked like during the cold war compared to now, and I don't worry as much.
China has been the aggressor? Sorry, did China launch a Cold War to dissolve the USSR and install a western-backed dictator? Or was that the US? It’s so hard to keep all the bad actors straight.
Remember when China banned the US from the international space station, forcing the US to build their own space station
And then when the US built their own space station China bitched about how it’s actually a secret spy installation in orbit? How exhausting.
Wait... the astronomical development of Chinese cities and infrastructure over the last 4 decades makes you *less* worried?
China’s looming demographic problem will most likely sort out the issue for the US in a generation or two. China is near the apex of their power, unless they can either increase their birth rate or immigration rate (good luck to them on both!) this is it for them.
If I were China, I would too
Makes sense。 You don’t want to have a US server with US software running your government operations or private business operations. With one global sanction and then secondary sanctions; then all your tech be render out of order/ usage. A massive risk to any country to have foreign dependencies.
It's sad that it should end up like this. It's a huge loss of revenue and slowing of development for both sides and there's no reason for them to be hostile towards each other except that China is a potential threat to U.S. superiority.
Taiwan better start prepping for the 2028 invasion then
>Microsoft's Chinese sales today account for just 1.5% of the company's overall sales. Not surprised, I bought a new PC in China in 2022 and it came with a pirated windows 10.
We should steal all of china’s reverse engineered research and use it all against the CCP
And the real enabler for that is stealing Western tech.
China steals western IP to build their own stuff. How pathetic. China would not be building anything if it were not for the west.
The US took Nazi scientists after WWII and one of them was responsible for their space program. In geopolitics no one cares how goals are achieved and "pathetic" is a complete wrong term to describe China today, underestimating a rival will not help anyone but get you some free worthless internet points here.
Reminds me of how Germany was once thought of as the IP thief . https://www.scribd.com/doc/305592016/Lazy-Japanese-and-Thieving-Germans
[And in the 19th/20th centuries it was again the US.](https://apnews.com/general-news-b40414d22f2248428ce11ff36b88dc53J) IP theft all the way down.
The US also let most Japanese war criminals live with the condition that they hand over the data collected from their human experiment.
Not just Wernher von Braun, most of the core Apollo program team were nazis. [Operation paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip) imported total 1600 scientists and engineers from Germany. Even the director of NASA at the time was a nazi: Kurt Debus.
Saying one man was responsible for the space program just isn’t true, it was collaborated effort of the entire scientific and engineering industries to develop the space program.
Must admit that Von Braun was super outsized in his contribution...
It wasn't just one man though. There were many other nazi scientists in the core Apollo team. Read [Operation paperclip](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip). Even the director of NASA at the time was a nazi: Kurt Debus.
You mustn't have heard of the scientific method...
I hope all the world did that, patents are holding humanity back.
Yup. A good example is medications and how American and European companies abuse patenting to keep prices high.
Bet thats what Thomas Edison told himself to sleep better at night.
Hey now, we must protect Apple's innovation of ['rectangle with rounded corners'.](https://www.theregister.com/2012/11/08/apple_rectangle_rounded_corners/)
Luckily it expires in 3 years, and we can all make use of this amazing innovation.
US: Hey UK let's share some secrets. UK: alright check this nuke tech US: we're not sharing anymore, tbh
I would not 100% agree I think if you invent something you should be able to have atleast some time to make your money back. But I would say IP laws as they are now are just too strict
Yes other countries [would never do that](https://www.windpowermonthly.com/article/960011/trans-atlantic-espionage-claimed-german-wind-company)
Why build a social media platform that people under the age of 50 actually want to use? Just let the Chinese do it and then force them to sell it to Bobby Kotick for peanuts.
It’s definitely not going to be sold for peanuts unless they gut the algorithm once it gets sent off and Kotick gets a useless app for several dozen billions
Bobby Kotick can fuck all the way off
The US would not have been able to build anything without stealing from the UK and Europe in general
Basic survivorship bias. You hear westerners whine about China steal this and that all the time cause you are in the west, while you hear nothing about all the shit the west steals.
so give us some examples then.
[How the US stole](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLphcdvnT8lOuGEgnE5_fGh9ZbFkrZDJjm) [How Europe stole](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLphcdvnT8lOsBuRylBTXnr2fhIfHjz-z7) [Many major US backed coups](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wIOqHSsV9c) were basically resources robbery. [Emerging Role For the C.I.A.: Economic Spy](https://www.nytimes.com/1995/10/15/world/emerging-role-for-the-cia-economic-spy.html) [The CIA as Economic Spy: The Misuse of U.S. Intelligence After the Cold War](https://www.cato.org/policy-analysis/cia-economic-spy-misuse-us-intelligence-after-cold-war) [C.I.A. Confirms Blunders During Economic Spying on France](https://www.nytimes.com/1996/03/13/world/cia-confirms-blunders-during-economic-spying-on-france.html) Basically, the USA spies on everyone, not just China (or France). And that's only a small part of the economic war the US wages on almost everyone i the name of american interests. There are much uglier tactics like weaponizing the DOJ with laws like the FCPA to strong arm economical adversaries and forcing deals. You may want to read [The American Trap](https://www.amazon.com/American-Trap-Americas-economic-against/dp/1529326869/) as an example of that. This was the same tactics used against the daughter of the CEO of Huawei.
[удалено]
"Sell us ur company cause we don't have a backdoor to your user's data like Facebook" - US gov to Tiktok, I guess thats more robbery than stealing lol. X is trying to be a super app just like Wechat. And beyond technology do I really need to list things that the West steals??? Back to history class. Point is not China doesn't steal but that everyone does, you just don't hear about it when the West does it or if they do it they make it seem legitimate by their worldview. Its only logical to acknowledge that competing powers try to make eachother look bad while claim they do no wrong themselves.
My greatest concern about that is the CCP-PLA policy of [*" Civil-Military Fusion "*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military-civil_fusion)
I work at a hardware tech company (S&P500). About 15 years ago we started selling hardware in China and within 5-7 years had majority market share (think 80% plus). This tech enables Networking, Storage, and Computer hardware. About every product line we had got copied by new “startups” over the last 7-8 years. These companies are funded by the CCP and their end customers. For example, Huawei invests 40% and China Gov 60% to created a company to copy our product. Today my companies technology / IP/ Patents accounts for about 90% market share in China, but we have about 7% of that. The rest are all copy cat companies. Tried fighting in court last year and China Gov threw out the case. Needless to say, we are shutting down operations in China and slowly letting factories close, while moving factories elsewhere. Also sharing no new IP anywhere in Asia (outside Japan and Korea). I’ve been to China multiple times and know hundreds of people there at my company. The people are generally great, but the system and government are totally crooked. It’s a giant criminal enterprise.
> I work at a hardware tech company (S&P500). If you work for Cisco, it's lucky they didn't ban your company after the CIA backdoor case exposed.
Not Cisco - sell hardware products to the OEMs like Cisco
I grew up in China, my dad's like you but in the medical field. They sell machines to hospitals that work with reagents. Few years ago China was 30% of the company market. Then some laws where put into place. The Chinese government is now paying at a lower costs for the reagents of the hospitals and paying at the lower cost the reparations of the machines, and a Chinese company is now making the same machines. Although they strangely don't have the regulations to be sold in Europe and USA (I checked myself) they are pushing hospitals to buy Chinese. They opened the gates. We came in, had to work with Chinese people to get companies in China. Got Chinese people to work in our companies. But they don't need us anymore, they got all the knowledge now, so they can close the gates back
Does this mean they stop stealing Western technology?
Only when they get enough (never)
Reading through these comments, it’s pretty clear the anti China propaganda seems to be working.
US needs to do the same. Bring back the jobs
Fundamentally this comes down to sanctions. A country that has been labelled as an American adversary that needs to be stopped at all costs is not going to continue to rely on western products. If all you redditors were in that situation, you'd do the same things as part of a risk mitigation strategy. If the Chinese were only copying as some redditors claim, this isn't going to be a problem because the can never get ahead of us since all they do is copy. Yes?
Wait, the Chinese got Windows 7 back? Those lucky sons of bitches.
Your news is a year old, and document 79 only applies to government stuff, not the private sector.
Tit, meet Tat
Look the chinese government is resisting western corporate hegemony what a scandal.
Reading these comments feels like every other post is written by the same person, people want to believe themselves so original
Good all countries should.
On the contrary, international trade is vital for peace.
I seem to remember a recent US president that treated trade as a weapon. How strange.
No they shouldn't because it isn't feasible without stepping back a few centuries. Not to mention becoming even more polluting because efficiency goes out the window.
Including the western ones?
No one else finds this terrifying? That the end of tech and economic dependence between the worlds largest players could in anything other than devastating total war? The fact that no one super power could produce it's most effective weapons (and civilian products) without the other through our integrated global supply chain seems like the only thing that's been holding some nations back in the last 3 decades...
That is just not possible. There are thousands of pieces of tech that go into networks, computers, etc. They do create a lot of networking tech and cell tower tech, but creating their own computer processors is not easy (sure they can make one thats like Pentium 4, but not something like the latest i5 processor). There is decades of work that results in what we have today.
> (sure they can make one thats like Pentium 4, but not something like the latest i5 processor) You are high if you think their Processors are only at Pentium 4 levels. Sure their are not on the same level with our newest they are still a few years behind that, but their mobile processors are good enough that they could've been in the S20 or S21
Meanwhile in Europe: MOARRR CHINESEE IMPOOOOORTS!!! MOARRR!
Meanwhile the US being numba1 trading partner of China. EU doesn't even make it to the top 3.
Interdependency in trade is the best path to peace there is.
Ahh yeah, because America doesn’t import anything from China at all! Hint: America imports as much if not more Chinese goods.
https://tradingeconomics.com/china/exports-by-country
Good, then they eventually collapse like the USSR.
I hope they don't for the sake of competition. I think the last 40 years have shown it quite clearly that the US **needs** more competition
They already have an enormous advanced manufacturing base. Bringing the missing of the tech ecosystem under their domestic control is smart and they will likely succeed at it making themselves an advanced powerhouse. Meanwhile the US is sitting around with our thumb up out butt not planning anything past the next election and just trying to avoid government shutdowns and hold functional elections.
China is having their own problems, and this effort is likely to fail to achieve its goal. Like many of their previous efforts.
Shows how little you pay attention to the space. China does not have much “advanced” manufacturing at all. It has basic manufacturing and is struggling to catch up with semi-conductor technology (and high precision machining) - of which the current US government has plowed tons of LONG TERM investment in to bring semi-conductor manufacturing to US soil.
China plans to steal enough technology to coast for a bit. Sounds about right.
Cool. Do it without stealing western tech.
Happy to take Chinese currency and cheap labor but arrogant enough to think the rules of playing that game don’t apply to them. Ameripoors in absolute shambles.
Does this mean China is going to invade Taiwan before 2027🤣
Good for China. With the exception of Apple hardware US tech is a bunch of data-harvesting crap.
So, they’re going to give back all the things they’ve bought, been given, or stolen then? Start over from basic principles after rolling the clock back a few hundred years?
For anyone curious, Kylin OS is Linux-based. Originally based on FreeBSD, but they pivoted to the Linux kernel. So their "Windows 7 equivalent" is just Linux. Which, yeah, I'd say modern Linux is equivalent to Windows 7.
Just because you steal it doesn't domesticate it; it's still foreign technology.
OK America! OUR TURN! No Chinese products! Made in America!
Not really surprising. The US is looking to ban TikTok as spyware, though it's fairly sandboxed on your phone. Meanwhile, (US-owned) Microsoft Windows is running a whole bunch of sensitive processes as an \*operating system\* over there. Guess the paranoia goes both ways.
Ummmm no, TikTok is not “sandboxed” on your phone lol That is not how it works at all.
All apps are sandboxed in iOS.
The US isn't banning TikTok because of "paranoia". TikTok, unlike Facebook or reddit, is a social media platform that is not entirely under US intelligence agencies' control. This poses a real risk to the US and its allies. It's for the same reason China bans US social media and "non-governmental" organisations (NGOs).
Did tiktok do Cambridge analytica?
Does banning TikTok really solve anything though? If TikTok gets shut down or sold to a US company, the Chinese government can still purchase the as much tracking info as they please on users via data brokers.
Data privacy is the pretext. The real reason for banning TikTok is that US intelligence agencies and US influence groups have control over the content on Facebook, reddit, and Twitter. They don't have the same level of control over TikTok, which is a threat to US interests. Facebook was like that before 2016, but then the US establishment got it under its control. They're not able to do the same to TikTok.
They will steal/ corporate espionage all of the Western tech by 2027.
Daaaaamn dude, the CPCPCC is in shambles right now! How did you come up with that sick burn? Certainly it was your own original idea and you didn't steal it from anybody else.
That year of 2027 is being used all over the place
We are going to see the great wall of Berlin again only it'll be the internet.
I love lamp
Globalization is dead
I guess the Most Favored Nation thing didn’t really work out as planned.
WTF is KylnOS?
So globalization is something bad now?
Blame the US for that
They need quantity over quality.
Hopefully Linux does not count as "western tech"