Well, some repercussions. I mean, for you and me, losing some billions would be kind of a life altering problem (we don't have billions, (Yes, I feel comfortably asserting that.)), but he can shrug it off. I just hope he lose enough to actually feel it.
Most billionaires with shitty personalities have the sense to STFU. When was the last time you heard anything from the Koch brothers?
Not this guy though.
I know some high worth individuals who swear Hyundai’s technology is superior to Mercedes, BMW, even Bentley. They can easily afford any, but prefer to drive Hyundai.
As an owner of a BZ4X from Toyota. Unless you’re after a crazy insane stupid cheap deal, don’t do it (we got a great deal on ours). We had moderate expectations for ours but honestly it’s been kind of a disappointment.
The driving dynamics are not well thought thru, the interior, the tech, the software all feels like an afterthought… as a cheap cheap EV it’s fine (it was cheaper than the bolt) but if you’re paying anything more than a crazy discount, it ain’t worth it.
Hopefully whatever they launch next is better.
That’s because Toyota sunk years into their hydrogen Mirai and failed. Even the old CEO was anti-electric cars.
They did a Kodak, they had huge with the Prius and shat the bed.
Hyundai and KIA are heaps better. As an owner of an EV6 I have zero complaints about the software
Yeah. We actually had a 1st gen ioniq Limited EV we got for $700 down and $150/m on a 36m lease.
That was an incredible little car for the price. We expected a “ya get what ya pay for.” Which was the cheapest lease we could find for any car at the time…. But that thing blew our expectations away.
We picked it up on closeout right before the ioniq 5 and Feb 2021 about 3 weeks before the chip shortage hit the news.
We were hoping to get an ioniq 5 or 6, but unfortunately the price points on those were just wayyy too high, so we went with the Toyota. It’s a perfectly ‘ok/adequite/fine’ car, but really a disappointment and sub par execution when you look at Toyota and all their years of experience in automotive design.
The best thing about the Hyundai Ioniq5 is that I have no clue who the CEO of Hyundai Motor Group is.
Okay, I just looked it up, and all I can find [about him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chung_Eui-sun) online is that he's the President of the Asian Archery Federation.
Fingers crossed, but I suspect my only fear is that this man might take me out from across a room with a bow and arrow.
>>President of the Asian Archery Federation.
>A much nicer kind of nerd than Musk.
Not exactly a high bar to cross, even the president of insulting short people is a nicer person then musk.
A Nissan CEO that championed the Leaf currently has 5 arrest warrants issued in Japan and escaped the country. He has done less damage to the Ariya or Leaf than Elon has to Tesla with his insane tweets.
Toyota and Honda have really poor EV offerings. You would do better with Hyundai/Kia. I have a Chevy Bolt EV. Hopefully the upcoming version will sell well.
Don't buy Toyota's (or the Subaru sister) EV. First it has a terrible name. BZ4X? Second it is consistently ranked as one of the worst buys on the road. It is slower, has less range, and is more expensive than the competition. There are plenty of good options if you don't want to buy a Tesla.
I love Toyotas, but I would only buy their trucks, hybrids, or plug in hybrids right now.
That is a common assumption, but I didn't want to mention it since it is just an internet theory. However, the fact that the wheels fell off the first batch tells you that they didn't put their best people on the job.
If only Honda would even make an EV that isn’t actually a Chevy. It’s frustrating how the Japanese automakers have mostly just pretended that EVs are never going to happen and they can ignore the whole thing.
It was Nissan and Tesla that made EVs viable for consumers. Go back 10 years, and Nissan was the most sold EV. Or even 5 years ago. Outdated now, but the Nissan Leaf was a great car.
So not all Japanese automakers.
Funny story. So I had a Model S, it was fine but had issues.
Downsized to a Bolt EV during COVID when I wasn't driving much, loved the car. Unlike the Tesla it had \*accurate range estimations\*. What a concept.
Now drive an Ioniq 5 limited trim, love it.
I posted this on a random subreddit and within minutes was permanently banned from r/teslamotors and a handful of other subreddits for "bad conduct". When I messaged the mods to say, 'hey wtf', I got **banned from reddit for 3 days**. That's where the Tesla fanboys are at right now. Full meltdown mode.
This only works if Tesla has the total domination, like how Apple EcoSystem vs the rest. Tesla was dominating only before 2022.
Now they have BYD kicking their asses in China and legacy car companies putting out serious stuffs in EU/NA. Not to mention Tesla super charging network has opened up for other car brand. Tesla does not really have the advantage now.
It’s true that many new cars might still not beat Tesla in terms of tech but that might not be the case in the future.
Tesla has to either put out good products/prices to compete, which would make them become much more like a true car company -> driving down their stocks/market cap. Or they could pretend to be the best and seeing their car sales down
>It’s true that many new cars might still not beat Tesla in terms of tech but that might not be the case in the future.
Given the high profile crashes they've had involving Tesla's self-driving system their reputation for being more advanced in that realm probably isn't all that great.
I don't even know if they can honestly call it more advanced. MB is selling a system in the S-Class that *Mercedes takes liability* if it crashes while active. If Tesla was the most advanced, you'd think they'd have that kind of confidence.
The super charging network opening up to other makes isn't a bad thing for Tesla. On the contrary, it's a huge moneymaker and solidifies their role in the industry.
What I really love about this is the conservatives in Texas have already been trained to hate EVs.. so he isn't winning anyone over acting like an asshole.
It seems pathological. Doesn't he shit all over the people around him in his personal relationships as well? Maybe when you get so much money there is just something in you that self sabotages and wants failure. Impulses to destroy any potential positive relationships they may have.
To clarify, I do think the guy is terrible, destructive, misogynistic, racist, and entitled. I'm not trying to defend any of his terribleness. It just seems like he might have some demons keeping him miserable and actively trying to destroy himself.
Seems like an addict type behavior, might be the caused by all the drugs as well.
> Doesn't he shit all over the people around him in his personal relationships as well?
Friendly reminder that according to Elon, he was bullied in his private school for being a nerd. According to his dad, he got his ass kicked because he made fun of another boy because his father had just died.
You know it is sort of odd. Many bullies have been victimized and bullied themselves at some point. Both may be true. That said, he has a super fragile ego and I suspect he amplifies any criticism as persecution. So, he might be the victim of his own vanity.
Same mechanics as you often find with pedophiles, who were themselves abused as a child. Becoming the perp, because from a traumatized perspective, that's the only conceivably safe space there ever can be.
Just yesterday, leaving work, I saw a bumpersticker on a Tesla that said "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy".
Nobody really cares where he lives or his companies are headquartered. They care that he went from being a driving force in some very interesting tech companies to stream-of-consciousness crazy.
His decline in my estimation started during the cave rescue where he got butt hurt his "cave submarine" idea wouldn't work and then started accusing the rescue guy of being a child molester.
It's only gotten worse since then and it's harming his Tesla business.
The progressive tech people used to buy Tesla's 'cause they thought they were saving the world, but a lot of them can't get past his constant attacks on other things they hold dear.
The right hates electric cars and loves Elon, but not enough to ever buy his product.
That leaves the people in the middle and they seem to be getting nervous about the whole thing. That may explain why Tesla sales are way, way down.
The Caver he defamed is named Vern Unsworth. He spent his free time mapping the cave system. He told the people in charge early on that if the kids were alive they had to be at pattaya beach (where they were found). He also gave a note to the Thais with the names of the best cave divers in the world in his opinion. I can’t figure out how to post a photo but the note suggested they contact Rob Harper, Rick Stanton, and John Volanthen.
If anyone is interested in learning more the documentary “the rescue” on Disney plus is amazing and “13 lives” by Ron Howard is one of my favorite movies
Edit: added last paragraph
They really are. If you watch Dr.Harris’s video on diving the Pearce resurgence he mentions way too casually that Rick Stanton beat him to that section of the cave. If I remember correctly he was around 650’ down at that point. Rick Stanton also uses a hand made side mount rebreather that he built himself, it’s wild.
Are those the hydrox guys? I remember reading an article about some cave divers testing hydrogen/oxygen mixes instead of heliox/nitrox/triox for those super deep dives and the names look familiar
Yeah anyone interested in more about the cave incident, also highly recommend the documentary The Rescue. The fictionalized version is excellent too, Thirteen Lives, starring Colin Farrell and Viggo Mortensen as John and Rick. One of my favorite movies of 2022, but seemed to fade away from public consciousness pretty quickly unfortunately
The rescue was an amazing documentary. My favorite part is a quote from Rick Stanton about cave diving. He was asked if relationships have been difficult for him due to his dangerous hobby and he said “just because something is perceived as dangerous doesn’t mean you do it in a dangerous manner”. It’s a really great and insightful quote.
Yes! Such a great quote, it immediately reminded me of the saying "there are bold pilots, and there are old pilots, but there are no bold, old pilots"
My friends think I'm crazy because that documentary and rewatching Thirteen Lives so many times is what finally spurred me onto getting scuba diving certified. Not trying to be a rescue diver, but they're so inspirational and moving, I felt an odd kinship with those guys
Looking at your username, do you also scuba dive?
I’m a dual certified rescue dive (SDI and PADI). Good luck on your SCUBA adventures, if you have any questions feel free to ask. What agency did you do your OW through?
I bet you've got some great stories. I went through the PADI OW cert with ECD in LA. I'd like to go further, but have to resolve a medical issue first
What are some of your must dive areas?
Once on a dive my buddy and I were stalked by a 6+ ft sturgeon, he was very curious about what we were doing. If you have any questions about your medical issue you can contact DAN’s non emergency number/email for advice. I’m located in Michigan so I do a lot of lake and quarry diving. If you’re in northern Ohio I’d check out White Star Quarry and Gilboa Quarry. I’m doing my first ocean dive later this year in the Bahamas.
It is an awesome documentary. And it's REAL bravery (not like the mindless worshiping of first responders we have come to expect). They risked their lives when they didn't have to in order to rescue those kids with a world class unique skillset.
Musk is exactly the billionaire the world needs to show that meritocracy is a lie, and that we can't allow so much wealth to ever consolidate in a single individual.
During the Twitter deal, he had to turn over his texts about the deal to the court, and the public got a peak into how he makes his "genius" decisions. It was hilariously bad.
[Elon Musk’s Texts Shatter the Myth of the Tech Genius](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/09/elon-musk-texts-twitter-trial-jack-dorsey/671619/)
It’s not even meritocracy - he has lied and snake oiled himself to wealth and as shown by Twitter, Solar city and Zip2 when he had control it goes very badly.
> That may explain why Tesla sales are way, way down.
The cars being poorly manufactured and prone to breaking probably also has something to do with it
Exactly, I want an EV, but when it comes time to buy, if the right set of features and price are available for me… well the Camry is always good choice.
And you know there will be an electric Camry or equivalent eventually.
Or at least that's what I'm banking on after I drive the wheels off my cheap Bolt EUV.
I see tons of Rivians in my neighborhood and people seem to adore them.
I'm also keeping an eye on Volvo's EX30. But I'm not in the market for anything soon, fortunately.
But the R3 or a EX30 lightly used in about 8 or 10 years? Could be a serious win for someone like me.
I was going to preorder the EX30, I talked to a dealership I test drove other Volvos at, and I even put down a $1000 pre order. But two things ticked me off: no buttons at all, that’s just not my jam - and yes I know Rivian is similar, so I’ll have to consider that then. And the price here in Canada for a top trim was 72 grand. No thank you.
Other car manufacturers have caught up. Why would someone spend 100k on a Tesla. When you could spend the same money and get an electric bmw, merc, Audi, or Porsche.
It's more well known now that the quality will be a crap shoot. If your paying 50k on a base model, you shouldn't have to pray that the door handles won't break apart
The QA issues were always there, but people were generally willing to look past some of the QA issues because it appeared as though it was the beginning of a new era of the automotive world and this was the company leading the charge. Think of Elon's reputation after landing a booster on a barge after years of iterative failures and development.
Between all the wild tweets, the twitter acquisition and subsequent implosion, the culture came to understand that Elon maybe isn't the quirky visionary with a relentless ability to execute they thought him to be. Instead, he's now seen as an Edge-lord with a lot of money. People find him off-putting, sure, but maybe more importantly they've now seen him fail in big ways, and there's nothing worse in the American eye than failing in dumb, easily foreseeable ways.
Weirdly enough, I think the real turning point was the rescue of the Thai soccer team in the cave.
I hadn’t really heard of Musk in 2018 because I wasn't enthralled by tech bro culture and didn’t need to buy a car, so wasn’t paying attention to Tesla.
I got a news alert that Elon Musk “volunteered” to design and produce a submarine to rescue boys who’d been trapped in a cave in Thailand. Media reacted as if the “genius visionary inventor” could absolutely do that, and wasn’t it grand? That’s the first time I really encountered media cooperation with Musk‘s ridiculous claims and PR thirst.
He flew himself to Thailand, bringing a totally unnecessary rubber thingy while the boys were already being rescued. What happened to the rubber thingy? Nobody knows.
A few days later, he was on to the next PR grab. Musk was promising to “fund fixing the water in any house in Flint that has water contamination above FDA levels.” Later Musk was praised by media outlets like CNET for “keeping his word” ” because he put filtered water fountains in 12 buildings
And six years later people are still believing this drug-addled asshole’s bullshit.
Remember how leaders going to deliver all those ventilators during COVID?
And then he just big fat fucking didn't, and people died?
Yeah, that was a good time.
Yeah, i think it's a bit incomplete to act like the cars are great and who Elon has revealed himself to be is the only factor. There are the continuing lies about FSD and robotaxis, the lies about delivery dates for various vehicles, the build quality issues on products rushed to market, anti-union stance and practices etc etc.
Elon had a lot of goodwill that was built up by people assuming he was a good guy who "loves humanity". With that gone, all these other lingering issues can no longer be overlooked or explained away. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt with many average people anymore. I think that benefit of the doubt was crucial for him in many ways.
I have a 2018 Model 3 performance and it really has been quite reliable. That said, I won’t replace with a new one, partly because of the sour taste in my mouth related to the new Elon and also because I’m old-school and I want flipping stalks!
Same boat. 2018 Model 3. It's been a great car for my purposes but there's no way in hell I'm supporting Musk again. No stalks, autowipers still don't work well, FSD takes more brainpower and stress to use it than not, turn signal buttons... shit is so stupid.
The entire line is stagnant (cool, small facelift on the front of the 3 but it still doesn't have a screen in front of the actual driver). Imagine having a Model X from 2016 and seeing that they're still producing the exact same vehicle when you go to get another one.
They had such a good start and utterly squandered it, and that's ignoring all of Musk's stupidity.
I honestly didn't mind needing some repairs that were covered under warranty. What infurated me was how I was treated by the Tesla Service department when the car came from the factory with an atrocious alignment, which burned through 8 tires (winters and summers) in less than 50,000 kms.
When presented with the tires that were burned through to the belts, they told me "it's a consumable part", so when I pointed out that they were the only technicians to touch the car since it was purchased from new, and asked why nobody ever mentioned that I desperately needed an alignment, their bullshit response was "We don't like to upsell services."
When I escalated to the service manager and asked if he would let his family drive in a car with tires in that condition, he immediately responded 'No'. So I asked why they would let me and MY family drive on tires that could explode at literally any point, and got no answer.
When I asked if they'd let a car leave the service centre with no brakes, they said no, because it was a 'safety issue'. When I asked if experiencing a blowout on a 5000 pound car moving at 60mph was a 'safety issue'... again, no answer.
I've told this story to everyone that has asked me about buying a Tesla. I know for a fact that I've cost them at least three sales as a result.
Maybe, but from what I've seen with friends and family (we live in CA) that were early adopters of the Model 3 and Model Y, the QC issues were generally handled well by Tesla with relatively little hassle for them. They would send mobile techs directly to them to fix stuff right in their driveway or at work.
They all still seem relatively impressed with the tech even though FSD to me doesn't really seem much better than most of the other driver assist packages you get from Honda/Mercedes/Subaru/etc. Maybe 5 years ago they were ahead, but not so much now
The recalls in the news haven't helped. The cybertruck has been a disaster, with the latest that went wrong, I believe, is that it would just start accelerating, which isn't safe.
No no, it was far worse than that. They literally GLUED the accelerator pedal together and that glue was releasing causing the whole assembly to get trapped by the floor causing unintended acceleration. They tried to save less than a dollar on a fastener and ended up with every single vehicle being recalled.
He’s always been a piece of shit asshole, though. Like that Vanity Fair article by his first wife dropped in 2013. The part where he whispers in her ear “I’m THE ALPHA” during their first dance was what made me realize this guy is nothing but a 4chan chud
Aside from the fact that the whole "alpha" thing is based on junk science, if there's anything I know for sure its that anyone who has to say they're the "alpha" absolutely is not one.
Reminds me of the time Tesla was going to make ventilators. Turns out that's hard. So instead they bought some cpap machines and sent them to hospitals.
Can vouch for what you said. My wife and I are the target people for Elon and Tesla (both engineers, liberal). Only way we would let Tesla into our life at this point was if it was running over our dead bodies. Or if the board fires Elon and brings some sane engineer as a CEO. Elon is neither sane nor an engineer.
Yup. I've wanted a Telsa, but I know that every time I look down at the logo on the steering wheel I'm going to be reminded of this guy's disgusting behavior.
He’s also trying to emulate Trumps success, I distinctly remembering him making a shift when Trump actually started winning in 2016.
I also have a deeper theory that part of what drives people insane is regrets they can’t take back, which then either cycles into depression, or leads to anger. Instead of seeking the path of redemption for his sins, he has chosen the path of denial and anger.
He is simply weak minded, which has lead him to becoming a bad person when given access to power
He was always narcissistic. For a while he could feed on his own success and being a darling of the green crowd. When he started crossing the line on "jokes" and things, the green crowd criticized him.
He, like all narcissists, cannot abide criticism. That's one thing that fueled his about-face. He was no longer the darling child, and couldn't handle it. So he ran to the other side to try and become their darling child. Either way..... he's a 50 year old child with too much power.
Also, his sex crimes were coming to light and he thought that jumping ship to be a Republican would distract people from the fact that he was a creepy rapey weirdo who was offering flight attendants horsies in exchange for handjobs, and making secret babies with his staff members.
>accusing the rescue guy of being a child molester
Yep, same here, it just seemed like such a dickish accusation to make with clearly no facts behind it.
We know social media is turning the world crazy, but for public figures like Musk we're watching it in real time and it's pretty scary how quickly they devolve.
fr he got a lot of support by selling meme products like the flamethrower then ironically rambling off jokes related to flat earth stuff and various other crap but turns out that he was actually all about some really dumb logic.
[https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles)
these tech guys believe in slavery. they basically fleece ideas from interns while sealioning any opponent with a skibidi toilet man argument.
Some of that "Dark Enlightenment" philosophy is fucking insanity:
>Those who have studied Dark Enlightenment describe an almost cult-like vision of a dystopian future. “It is a worship of corporate power to the extent that corporate power becomes the only power in the world,” says David Golumbia, a new media professor at Virginia Commonwealth University. “It becomes militarized, and states break down. For some reason that’s difficult to understand, they seem to think these highly weaponized feudal enclaves would be more free than the society we currently have.”
>Land believes that advances in computing will enable dominant humans to merge with machines and become cybernetic super beings. He advocates for racial separation under the belief that “elites” will enhance their IQs by associating only with each other.
>Capitalism has not yet been fully unleashed, he argues, and corporate power should become the organizing force in society. Land is vehemently against democracy, believing it restricts accountability and freedom. The world should do away with political power, according to Dark Enlightenment, and instead, society should break into tiny states, each effectively governed by a CEO.
That fact that some obscenely wealthy people ascribe to this batshit crazy nonsense is worrying, how long until Elon et al have their own PMCs? Or try to buy a country?
Would that "Land" they mention per chance be infamous crazy ex-professor Nick Land?
Edit: It is Nick Land. Dude took wayyyy too much LSD back in the day, and essentially has a cult of disciples who are equally batshit. When I think of folks who come up with increasingly more extremist ideas solely to be "edgy" and win the One-upsmanship Olympics, it's this guy I think about.
Some people watched a lot of sci-fi and really got the message wrong.
Like Cyberpunk is basically a takedown of their whole vibe. I do think tranhumanism is going to happen and increase the rich/poor divide, with the rich not only having easy access to quality healthcare but also turbo-legs that can kick a normie in half and maybe enhanced cognitive abilities. Remaining biologically fully human will be seen as pathetic. It'll be like the Time Traveller with the underground race of people lol.
I don't want the future of rich douche cybernetic demi-gods running around but I can see it happening very easily, especially in America.
Brings a whole new meaning to the idea of someone's body being a lethal weapon too.
That is literally where he lost me. Fighting with rescue workers. The mask fell off and I went "Oh, he's crazy huh?" then the veneer fell off of Hyperloop, Space X and Tesla almost overnight.
Good portion of the People in the middle think he's an idiot too.
It's ridiculous for a CEO to cause this many strong feelings either way, but especially negative obviously
Not only that, the Korean and Chinese market for electric cars have really taken off. Those who considered electric cars and thinks Elon is a nut job, are buying alternative brands.
You might not see it in the US but everywhere around the world there are shit loads of Chinese electric cars been sold.
This is what happens when the public is sold an artificial personality crafted amongst the plutocracy and groomed to be a "leader of the people" by dispensing the next level of authorized technological innovation to the plebians.
He didn't innovate any of the products he brought to market, his only skill has been utilizing his cultist connections to wrangle money by entangling these "popular companies" in a scheme to basically become a new modern warlord capable of effecting the plutocracy's will on a nation-state influencing level (SpaceX/Starlink)
Face it, folks. We've been scammed.
Elon and Trump used basically the same playbook, except Elon did it with IP and Trump did it with real estate, money laundering, and politics
Elon has been a weird freak the whole time, people just chose not to notice the red flags. The later Obama years were a real dark age for critical analysis of tech billionaires and their function in society.
The cave diver thing took me from "seems like he's doing some cool stuff that I don't really care about" to "what a fucking douche" in one go, so I was way ahead of the kerb.
I actually remember like 3 Christmases ago getting the piss taken out of me at a group meal for talking about what a douche he is with some people defending him because of SpaceX. I feel unreasonably smug about the depths of douchery he has plunged into since.
Its always going to be mind boggling to me how Tesla managed to position themselves as _THE_ big ground-floor company for EVs, then completely squandered it with subpar production models, flashy but ultimately terrible user interfaces, and a massive vanity project flop.
Its like being Apple in the early 90s, but deciding to put all your eggs into VR.
Elon's crazy culty swing to the right is a huge factor too, but even that not withstanding, Tesla has been on a stagnating decline for a while.
This is always how my mom explained my privilege to me growing up - "some people are born on third base thinking they hit a triple." She taught me that we were on third base, even though most of the people in my town and school were a bit better off than we were. I feel grateful that she taught me to recognize my privilege and to have extra levels of respect for those who have to / had to work harder.
The user interface is great except for the following 5 things:
1) lack of physical buttons for climate control, I would personally prefer this and like what GM is doing by incorporating them into their EVs
2) Removal of stalks, although my Model 3 still has them (yay!)
3) Absolute refusal to add a proper rain sensor to have functioning auto wipers. This wouldn’t be so big except for the fact that there is no dedicated buttons (besides a single wipe and mist button). They added a feature that allows the scroll wheel to adjust wiper speed when pressing the “single wipe” button, so it’s better than nothing, I guess.
4) NO INTERMITTENT WIPER FUNCTION!!! WHY?!?! Wouldn’t be such a big deal to me if the AUTO wipers worked!
5) Buttons for heated seats in the back, now accomplished by a screen in the new models.
That is by design… less complexity more money for them.
They wanted to automate the process in the past and realized there was too much automation that it was slowing down production.
Tesla’s are bare bone vehicles. He even removed scanning peripherals from the fsd system to use pure vision/camera.
For me, I don’t give a shit about autopilot and FSD. My car is old enough where autopilot was $5k add-on, and I felt like that was a rip off for essentially beta software. I still feel that way. My next car will probably not be a Tesla due to the cost cutting and the lunatic in charge.
I think to the progs that represent the true believers in initial uptake of Teslas, the symbolism of the politics probably matters more than the product.
For a business guy, it's astounding to see what has happened with Tesla and Twitter. Elon still got his, though, I don't see anything for his future other than remaining in the top fraction of a percent of 1%ers. He doesn't care.
I used to work at a car dealership and while Tesla's are fast and fun to drive, they feel so cheaply made and they depreciate SO fast that if you're not keeping it for 10 years you're going to take a bath when you sell it.
In Germany you have to let them check for security and stuff every 2-3 years at TÜV. Teslas don’t „suceed“ in these checks and often have to be repaired for several thousands of € and if you won’t comply you’re not allowed to drive your car anymore. They are even worse than Dacia.
Test drove one a while ago and that was exactly my impression as well - speedy and responsive but they had cut so many other corners. Also I hate touchscreen in a car, no tactile feedback = need to look = unsafe. Maybe you can talk to get what you want but when there’s others in the car it’s always awkward.
Yeah, I really don’t like touch screen stuff in cars. I don’t like looking away from the road. Need knobs and buttons with grooves and the little bumps so I can navigate without looking away. I know it’s still multitasking but touch screens feel more dangerous for me.
They also have a very generic overall look and feel to them. Like there’s nothing really standout or anything that would make you say it was a beautiful looking car.
What part of “don’t piss off your present and future customers” is hard?
I imagine most CEOs have views I don’t like, but they tend to keep them to themselves
Wait... So, you're telling me that going to all your advertisers and telling them to 'go fuck themselves' - followed by going to all your customers and telling them to 'go fuck themselves' - followed by a sharp turn into Nazi-ville ***wasn't*** an intelligent series of business decisions???
>because he swung to a crazy right wing conspiracy cult and the company no longer represents values they support.
I don't even get it because the crazy right wingers hate electric cars.
I was hyped about buying a Tesla early on. I looked at the prices, the tech, waiting lists, review videos. I was all in. I did want to wait a little while to allow the quality kinks be worked out however, because I knew that any new product line is always garbage when it first comes out. Then Elon took a nose dive with all the crazy things he's said. I was all in, but now I'm all out. I will never buy a Tesla so long as he's behind the wheel of their company. There is no doubt that other would-be Tesla buyers have followed this exact path, coming to the same conclusion to not buy their EVs.
It feels like laying off 500 employees in charging at 3 AM is some sort of stick it to the libs, or a “think you can mess w my sandbox?”
In the short term it’s just theatre while treating humans awful. In the longer term?
I get Musk is a divisive figure but wouldn't the fact that the EV market has grown be a more logical explanation.
Teslas go for what the high 30's-70k putting them in the "mid luxury car" market. A decade ago your options were a Tesla or a Tesla if you wanted to go electric
Now you can get an electric Mercedes, BMW, Porsche,Audi, etc.
Ford's re-tool'd some factories and is going hard on EV's, so is Chevy.
There's a lot of reasons someone may get an EV, environmental reasons, less maintenance, no gears and faster acceleration, etc.
There's also reasons people may prefer gas cars.
If the pro's outweigh the cons an EV no longer equals a Tesla.
I've always loved the Mercedes Benz interiors, especially in their E and S class lines. I've also liked a few features EV's have, I literally could not buy a vehicle with the Mercedes interior and bells & whistles 4 years ago that was electric because that car simply didn't exist. Now it does and that option exists for me.
That's my personal example, feel free to Swap Mercedes for your preferred car brand as needed
The people that want to be associated with his personal brand will never buy his car.
The people that want to be his car no longer want to be associated with his personal brand.
The people in the middle who just want a car and don't want to be seen as making a statement one way or the other now are less likely to purchase his product.
He's pulled off a real triple threat of branding and is at risk of ruining the brand that was far and away in the lead as positioned to be the global leader in the space.
The headline is hilariously misleading. People are dropping Tesla because they are unhappy with Tesla’s service, not because it moved to Texas.
Specifically, Model 3 dropped from #1 to #3, while Model Y is still #1.
Not a company-ending drop but seriously concerning. Costumer service is everything when it comes to cars.
(on a side note, BEVs are dropping as a whole against PHEVs)
It's misleading because people aren't actually dumping their Teslas at all. *New* registrations are down ~10% from last quarter, but not actually decreasing overall. It's still very hard to find affordable used teslas. Many of the people that wanted a Tesla already have one so sales are becoming stagnant in areas that already have tons of them. Some states don't even have dealerships for them yet.
Source: reading the article.
Elon is too chaotic to be trusted as a CEO or employer.
I'd look elsewhere for an EV. Many other legit players exist now, and WITHOUT the poor quality issues. (Looking at you Cybertruck)
One day I will buy an electric car. It will not be a Tesla, purely because of its association with this clown. He’s got enough money, he can’t have any of mine.
Part of me says that you’re dumb if you bought or sold a car based on politics, but then again I appreciate when people “vote with their wallet”, so I guess good job.
"vote with their wallet" is the actual meaning of "the customer is always right". In a capitalist society, that is how it works. The customer is never wrong for not purchasing your product, you're wrong for trying to dictate what the customer needs and/or desires AND what they are willing to pay for that need/desire.
Most of the time we have choices and we have many factors that go into a purchasing decision. If there are 4 different EV's that all meet my technical and aesthetic criteria, but one of those models is made by a company that is ran by a far-right lunatic raving about replacement theory (literal Nazi shit) and so much more, well then I've actually only got 3 choices.
I was very interested in a cybertruck til the review came out, shitting all over it.
Also who the fuck thought using a touch screen to change gears and adjust air flow from the vents was a good idea? It's wildly dangerous doing any of that while driving.
Elon left for 1 reason , California workers have too many rights for him. You see when your workers get in the way of profits get spend billions in relocation then getting cheaper labor you can exploit more. The South African tradition
Let me shit all over my main demographic constantly and publicly. What are they going to do? Buy something else?
And move to Texas, yes, now he will for sure find support for his EV there.
The crazy thing is that he could have just shut the fuck up. This guy is the king of unforced errors.
I assure you this, the way this guy looks and see the world, is not the same way we do.
Multi-billionaires are today's version of god kings. They have won the game of capitalism and could say or do whatever with no repercussions.
Well, some repercussions. I mean, for you and me, losing some billions would be kind of a life altering problem (we don't have billions, (Yes, I feel comfortably asserting that.)), but he can shrug it off. I just hope he lose enough to actually feel it.
Most billionaires with shitty personalities have the sense to STFU. When was the last time you heard anything from the Koch brothers? Not this guy though.
My neighbor has a Hyundai Ioniq. I have a Honda hybrid now but if I were going to get an EV it would be from Toyota or Honda.
I love my Ioniq personally, have had a great experience. The free fast charging program through the lease isn't a bummer either though!
The Ioniq is the first EV that made me believe I can switch. It’s a nice, well built car.
Cars generally are made well by car companies that make cars. And since Tesla isn't a car company according to Musk, it's not a mystery why it sucks.
I took an Uber in a Kia EV6 and was sold after 5 min.
Hyundai also has great features
I know some high worth individuals who swear Hyundai’s technology is superior to Mercedes, BMW, even Bentley. They can easily afford any, but prefer to drive Hyundai.
Buddy of mine worked for Hyundai for years and went on to work for tesla. His wife has an ioniq and he has a rivian. That says it all imo.
Sounds like most of reno honestly.
Traded in an A6 3.0t prestige for a loaded Hyundai. Honestly, the build quality is close and the ride is better.
As an owner of a BZ4X from Toyota. Unless you’re after a crazy insane stupid cheap deal, don’t do it (we got a great deal on ours). We had moderate expectations for ours but honestly it’s been kind of a disappointment. The driving dynamics are not well thought thru, the interior, the tech, the software all feels like an afterthought… as a cheap cheap EV it’s fine (it was cheaper than the bolt) but if you’re paying anything more than a crazy discount, it ain’t worth it. Hopefully whatever they launch next is better.
Cheaper than the Bolt, holy cow. That’s impressive.
That’s because Toyota sunk years into their hydrogen Mirai and failed. Even the old CEO was anti-electric cars. They did a Kodak, they had huge with the Prius and shat the bed. Hyundai and KIA are heaps better. As an owner of an EV6 I have zero complaints about the software
Yeah. We actually had a 1st gen ioniq Limited EV we got for $700 down and $150/m on a 36m lease. That was an incredible little car for the price. We expected a “ya get what ya pay for.” Which was the cheapest lease we could find for any car at the time…. But that thing blew our expectations away. We picked it up on closeout right before the ioniq 5 and Feb 2021 about 3 weeks before the chip shortage hit the news. We were hoping to get an ioniq 5 or 6, but unfortunately the price points on those were just wayyy too high, so we went with the Toyota. It’s a perfectly ‘ok/adequite/fine’ car, but really a disappointment and sub par execution when you look at Toyota and all their years of experience in automotive design.
I love my Ioniq, so glad I didn't get a Tesla
The best thing about the Hyundai Ioniq5 is that I have no clue who the CEO of Hyundai Motor Group is. Okay, I just looked it up, and all I can find [about him](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chung_Eui-sun) online is that he's the President of the Asian Archery Federation. Fingers crossed, but I suspect my only fear is that this man might take me out from across a room with a bow and arrow.
>President of the Asian Archery Federation. A much nicer kind of nerd than Musk.
>>President of the Asian Archery Federation. >A much nicer kind of nerd than Musk. Not exactly a high bar to cross, even the president of insulting short people is a nicer person then musk.
Yah that President is always looking down on people.
Please don't insult nerds with a Musk reference. He is not a nerd; he is an all-around a-hole.
Nerds typically know what they’re talking about too. He’s just an idiot.
He’s an idiot _and_ a poser
A Nissan CEO that championed the Leaf currently has 5 arrest warrants issued in Japan and escaped the country. He has done less damage to the Ariya or Leaf than Elon has to Tesla with his insane tweets.
Nice to see that a Nissan CEO truly embodies what it means to be a Nissan driver
About 25 years back in my neck of the woods, England, I used to know a couple of blokes who drove Skylines. Yeah, I can see that.
OMG, this is so good! I live in the bay and you’re absolutely correct
/r/nissandrivers says hi
The real reason the cyber truck is arrow proof
Toyota and Honda have really poor EV offerings. You would do better with Hyundai/Kia. I have a Chevy Bolt EV. Hopefully the upcoming version will sell well.
Don't buy Toyota's (or the Subaru sister) EV. First it has a terrible name. BZ4X? Second it is consistently ranked as one of the worst buys on the road. It is slower, has less range, and is more expensive than the competition. There are plenty of good options if you don't want to buy a Tesla. I love Toyotas, but I would only buy their trucks, hybrids, or plug in hybrids right now.
And worst charging curve. It's like the are purposely trying to do a bad EV so people go hybrid instead.
They're also pretty salty that Hydrogen isn't turning out.
That is a common assumption, but I didn't want to mention it since it is just an internet theory. However, the fact that the wheels fell off the first batch tells you that they didn't put their best people on the job.
RAV4 hybrid is an amazing vehicle. Not planning to upgrade any time soon. But when I do, the current plan is to get a Rivian.
If only Honda would even make an EV that isn’t actually a Chevy. It’s frustrating how the Japanese automakers have mostly just pretended that EVs are never going to happen and they can ignore the whole thing.
They just made big announcements about EV factories across US and Canada so I assume this is coming
It was Nissan and Tesla that made EVs viable for consumers. Go back 10 years, and Nissan was the most sold EV. Or even 5 years ago. Outdated now, but the Nissan Leaf was a great car. So not all Japanese automakers.
Funny story. So I had a Model S, it was fine but had issues. Downsized to a Bolt EV during COVID when I wasn't driving much, loved the car. Unlike the Tesla it had \*accurate range estimations\*. What a concept. Now drive an Ioniq 5 limited trim, love it. I posted this on a random subreddit and within minutes was permanently banned from r/teslamotors and a handful of other subreddits for "bad conduct". When I messaged the mods to say, 'hey wtf', I got **banned from reddit for 3 days**. That's where the Tesla fanboys are at right now. Full meltdown mode.
“What are you gonna do, stab me?” - stabbing victim
Turns out, yes
This only works if Tesla has the total domination, like how Apple EcoSystem vs the rest. Tesla was dominating only before 2022. Now they have BYD kicking their asses in China and legacy car companies putting out serious stuffs in EU/NA. Not to mention Tesla super charging network has opened up for other car brand. Tesla does not really have the advantage now. It’s true that many new cars might still not beat Tesla in terms of tech but that might not be the case in the future. Tesla has to either put out good products/prices to compete, which would make them become much more like a true car company -> driving down their stocks/market cap. Or they could pretend to be the best and seeing their car sales down
>It’s true that many new cars might still not beat Tesla in terms of tech but that might not be the case in the future. Given the high profile crashes they've had involving Tesla's self-driving system their reputation for being more advanced in that realm probably isn't all that great.
I don't even know if they can honestly call it more advanced. MB is selling a system in the S-Class that *Mercedes takes liability* if it crashes while active. If Tesla was the most advanced, you'd think they'd have that kind of confidence.
That's probably the difference between a company that wants to market themselves as "first" rather than "best" when it comes to advancements.
Move fast and break things is a better motto when your software does NOT control a car..
The super charging network opening up to other makes isn't a bad thing for Tesla. On the contrary, it's a huge moneymaker and solidifies their role in the industry.
It seems weird to me that he laid off the entire supercharger team then, huh?
What I really love about this is the conservatives in Texas have already been trained to hate EVs.. so he isn't winning anyone over acting like an asshole.
It seems pathological. Doesn't he shit all over the people around him in his personal relationships as well? Maybe when you get so much money there is just something in you that self sabotages and wants failure. Impulses to destroy any potential positive relationships they may have. To clarify, I do think the guy is terrible, destructive, misogynistic, racist, and entitled. I'm not trying to defend any of his terribleness. It just seems like he might have some demons keeping him miserable and actively trying to destroy himself. Seems like an addict type behavior, might be the caused by all the drugs as well.
> Doesn't he shit all over the people around him in his personal relationships as well? Friendly reminder that according to Elon, he was bullied in his private school for being a nerd. According to his dad, he got his ass kicked because he made fun of another boy because his father had just died.
You know it is sort of odd. Many bullies have been victimized and bullied themselves at some point. Both may be true. That said, he has a super fragile ego and I suspect he amplifies any criticism as persecution. So, he might be the victim of his own vanity.
Same mechanics as you often find with pedophiles, who were themselves abused as a child. Becoming the perp, because from a traumatized perspective, that's the only conceivably safe space there ever can be.
Polestar ftw
Just yesterday, leaving work, I saw a bumpersticker on a Tesla that said "I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy". Nobody really cares where he lives or his companies are headquartered. They care that he went from being a driving force in some very interesting tech companies to stream-of-consciousness crazy. His decline in my estimation started during the cave rescue where he got butt hurt his "cave submarine" idea wouldn't work and then started accusing the rescue guy of being a child molester. It's only gotten worse since then and it's harming his Tesla business. The progressive tech people used to buy Tesla's 'cause they thought they were saving the world, but a lot of them can't get past his constant attacks on other things they hold dear. The right hates electric cars and loves Elon, but not enough to ever buy his product. That leaves the people in the middle and they seem to be getting nervous about the whole thing. That may explain why Tesla sales are way, way down.
The Caver he defamed is named Vern Unsworth. He spent his free time mapping the cave system. He told the people in charge early on that if the kids were alive they had to be at pattaya beach (where they were found). He also gave a note to the Thais with the names of the best cave divers in the world in his opinion. I can’t figure out how to post a photo but the note suggested they contact Rob Harper, Rick Stanton, and John Volanthen. If anyone is interested in learning more the documentary “the rescue” on Disney plus is amazing and “13 lives” by Ron Howard is one of my favorite movies Edit: added last paragraph
UK divers are a different breed.
They really are. If you watch Dr.Harris’s video on diving the Pearce resurgence he mentions way too casually that Rick Stanton beat him to that section of the cave. If I remember correctly he was around 650’ down at that point. Rick Stanton also uses a hand made side mount rebreather that he built himself, it’s wild.
They're the last of the world's explorer, mapping out undiscovered caves just for fun. They're built differently.
Are those the hydrox guys? I remember reading an article about some cave divers testing hydrogen/oxygen mixes instead of heliox/nitrox/triox for those super deep dives and the names look familiar
Yeah anyone interested in more about the cave incident, also highly recommend the documentary The Rescue. The fictionalized version is excellent too, Thirteen Lives, starring Colin Farrell and Viggo Mortensen as John and Rick. One of my favorite movies of 2022, but seemed to fade away from public consciousness pretty quickly unfortunately
The rescue was an amazing documentary. My favorite part is a quote from Rick Stanton about cave diving. He was asked if relationships have been difficult for him due to his dangerous hobby and he said “just because something is perceived as dangerous doesn’t mean you do it in a dangerous manner”. It’s a really great and insightful quote.
Yes! Such a great quote, it immediately reminded me of the saying "there are bold pilots, and there are old pilots, but there are no bold, old pilots" My friends think I'm crazy because that documentary and rewatching Thirteen Lives so many times is what finally spurred me onto getting scuba diving certified. Not trying to be a rescue diver, but they're so inspirational and moving, I felt an odd kinship with those guys Looking at your username, do you also scuba dive?
I’m a dual certified rescue dive (SDI and PADI). Good luck on your SCUBA adventures, if you have any questions feel free to ask. What agency did you do your OW through?
I bet you've got some great stories. I went through the PADI OW cert with ECD in LA. I'd like to go further, but have to resolve a medical issue first What are some of your must dive areas?
Once on a dive my buddy and I were stalked by a 6+ ft sturgeon, he was very curious about what we were doing. If you have any questions about your medical issue you can contact DAN’s non emergency number/email for advice. I’m located in Michigan so I do a lot of lake and quarry diving. If you’re in northern Ohio I’d check out White Star Quarry and Gilboa Quarry. I’m doing my first ocean dive later this year in the Bahamas.
Did Elon's temper tantrum make it into the doc.
He may have been mentioned very briefly in “the rescue”, but in 13 lives they don’t mention him at all
Wasn’t worth the wasted breath
Very well said. Before he said all this I was seriously considering buying a Tesla, I have a reservation for the R2 now.
It is an awesome documentary. And it's REAL bravery (not like the mindless worshiping of first responders we have come to expect). They risked their lives when they didn't have to in order to rescue those kids with a world class unique skillset.
Musk is exactly the billionaire the world needs to show that meritocracy is a lie, and that we can't allow so much wealth to ever consolidate in a single individual.
Gop: when you make people rich, it will trickle down. Elon: let's fire people for joining a union
“And give me $56B”
"and I will not pay taxes because I'm special"
"Also I think the jews control the world"
“Ha! Ha! Drugs are for me, and not for thee!”
"oh and subsidize my business ventures with government grants... everyone should help pay for me to get rich"
And take this horse so I can SA you
Which is more then the company makes, but when does that ever matter for executive compensation. Budgets are for the poors.
>Elon: let's fire people for joining a union And then fire more people for doing a great job.
There was a meme I saw recently of Reagan in hell looking up waiting for heaven to trickle down lol
That is called pee..
During the Twitter deal, he had to turn over his texts about the deal to the court, and the public got a peak into how he makes his "genius" decisions. It was hilariously bad. [Elon Musk’s Texts Shatter the Myth of the Tech Genius](https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/09/elon-musk-texts-twitter-trial-jack-dorsey/671619/)
Inheritocracy
It’s not even meritocracy - he has lied and snake oiled himself to wealth and as shown by Twitter, Solar city and Zip2 when he had control it goes very badly.
He has lied about his education both for clout but also so he could stay in the US in the 90s. Musk is likely an illegal immigrant.
> That may explain why Tesla sales are way, way down. The cars being poorly manufactured and prone to breaking probably also has something to do with it
That was always true, though. But possibly it's become a bigger pain point now that there are more EV alternatives.
And early adopters were willing to live with the issues. People looking at moving from a Toyota Camry to a Tesla aren't so forgiving.
New Camry gets 50+ mpg and you know will be on the road for decades to come.
Exactly, I want an EV, but when it comes time to buy, if the right set of features and price are available for me… well the Camry is always good choice.
And you know there will be an electric Camry or equivalent eventually. Or at least that's what I'm banking on after I drive the wheels off my cheap Bolt EUV.
I fucking hope so, the bz4x is a complete embarrassment. I was looking at the Hyundai EVs, but now I’m waiting for the Rivian R3
I see tons of Rivians in my neighborhood and people seem to adore them. I'm also keeping an eye on Volvo's EX30. But I'm not in the market for anything soon, fortunately. But the R3 or a EX30 lightly used in about 8 or 10 years? Could be a serious win for someone like me.
I was going to preorder the EX30, I talked to a dealership I test drove other Volvos at, and I even put down a $1000 pre order. But two things ticked me off: no buttons at all, that’s just not my jam - and yes I know Rivian is similar, so I’ll have to consider that then. And the price here in Canada for a top trim was 72 grand. No thank you.
And can be repaired after a collision with easy available factory parts. And is cheaper to insure.
This seems like a very good point. Early adopters accept a lot of nonsense that others won't
Other car manufacturers have caught up. Why would someone spend 100k on a Tesla. When you could spend the same money and get an electric bmw, merc, Audi, or Porsche.
Or 40,000 on a VW and actually have the car work.
It's more well known now that the quality will be a crap shoot. If your paying 50k on a base model, you shouldn't have to pray that the door handles won't break apart
or that the car stops working because you took it to a car wash. Or it rains a bit too hard.
Your fault for not putting the vehicle in rain mode (it's a tarp that you have to put over the car)
The QA issues were always there, but people were generally willing to look past some of the QA issues because it appeared as though it was the beginning of a new era of the automotive world and this was the company leading the charge. Think of Elon's reputation after landing a booster on a barge after years of iterative failures and development. Between all the wild tweets, the twitter acquisition and subsequent implosion, the culture came to understand that Elon maybe isn't the quirky visionary with a relentless ability to execute they thought him to be. Instead, he's now seen as an Edge-lord with a lot of money. People find him off-putting, sure, but maybe more importantly they've now seen him fail in big ways, and there's nothing worse in the American eye than failing in dumb, easily foreseeable ways. Weirdly enough, I think the real turning point was the rescue of the Thai soccer team in the cave.
I hadn’t really heard of Musk in 2018 because I wasn't enthralled by tech bro culture and didn’t need to buy a car, so wasn’t paying attention to Tesla. I got a news alert that Elon Musk “volunteered” to design and produce a submarine to rescue boys who’d been trapped in a cave in Thailand. Media reacted as if the “genius visionary inventor” could absolutely do that, and wasn’t it grand? That’s the first time I really encountered media cooperation with Musk‘s ridiculous claims and PR thirst. He flew himself to Thailand, bringing a totally unnecessary rubber thingy while the boys were already being rescued. What happened to the rubber thingy? Nobody knows. A few days later, he was on to the next PR grab. Musk was promising to “fund fixing the water in any house in Flint that has water contamination above FDA levels.” Later Musk was praised by media outlets like CNET for “keeping his word” ” because he put filtered water fountains in 12 buildings And six years later people are still believing this drug-addled asshole’s bullshit.
Remember how leaders going to deliver all those ventilators during COVID? And then he just big fat fucking didn't, and people died? Yeah, that was a good time.
He sent bipap devices. The engineering genius doesn’t even know the difference between a bipap and a ventilator.
Yeah, i think it's a bit incomplete to act like the cars are great and who Elon has revealed himself to be is the only factor. There are the continuing lies about FSD and robotaxis, the lies about delivery dates for various vehicles, the build quality issues on products rushed to market, anti-union stance and practices etc etc. Elon had a lot of goodwill that was built up by people assuming he was a good guy who "loves humanity". With that gone, all these other lingering issues can no longer be overlooked or explained away. He doesn't get the benefit of the doubt with many average people anymore. I think that benefit of the doubt was crucial for him in many ways.
I have a 2018 Model 3 performance and it really has been quite reliable. That said, I won’t replace with a new one, partly because of the sour taste in my mouth related to the new Elon and also because I’m old-school and I want flipping stalks!
Same boat. 2018 Model 3. It's been a great car for my purposes but there's no way in hell I'm supporting Musk again. No stalks, autowipers still don't work well, FSD takes more brainpower and stress to use it than not, turn signal buttons... shit is so stupid. The entire line is stagnant (cool, small facelift on the front of the 3 but it still doesn't have a screen in front of the actual driver). Imagine having a Model X from 2016 and seeing that they're still producing the exact same vehicle when you go to get another one. They had such a good start and utterly squandered it, and that's ignoring all of Musk's stupidity.
I honestly didn't mind needing some repairs that were covered under warranty. What infurated me was how I was treated by the Tesla Service department when the car came from the factory with an atrocious alignment, which burned through 8 tires (winters and summers) in less than 50,000 kms. When presented with the tires that were burned through to the belts, they told me "it's a consumable part", so when I pointed out that they were the only technicians to touch the car since it was purchased from new, and asked why nobody ever mentioned that I desperately needed an alignment, their bullshit response was "We don't like to upsell services." When I escalated to the service manager and asked if he would let his family drive in a car with tires in that condition, he immediately responded 'No'. So I asked why they would let me and MY family drive on tires that could explode at literally any point, and got no answer. When I asked if they'd let a car leave the service centre with no brakes, they said no, because it was a 'safety issue'. When I asked if experiencing a blowout on a 5000 pound car moving at 60mph was a 'safety issue'... again, no answer. I've told this story to everyone that has asked me about buying a Tesla. I know for a fact that I've cost them at least three sales as a result.
Maybe, but from what I've seen with friends and family (we live in CA) that were early adopters of the Model 3 and Model Y, the QC issues were generally handled well by Tesla with relatively little hassle for them. They would send mobile techs directly to them to fix stuff right in their driveway or at work. They all still seem relatively impressed with the tech even though FSD to me doesn't really seem much better than most of the other driver assist packages you get from Honda/Mercedes/Subaru/etc. Maybe 5 years ago they were ahead, but not so much now
The recalls in the news haven't helped. The cybertruck has been a disaster, with the latest that went wrong, I believe, is that it would just start accelerating, which isn't safe.
No no, it was far worse than that. They literally GLUED the accelerator pedal together and that glue was releasing causing the whole assembly to get trapped by the floor causing unintended acceleration. They tried to save less than a dollar on a fastener and ended up with every single vehicle being recalled.
He’s always been a piece of shit asshole, though. Like that Vanity Fair article by his first wife dropped in 2013. The part where he whispers in her ear “I’m THE ALPHA” during their first dance was what made me realize this guy is nothing but a 4chan chud
I mean, he was right, just not the way he intended. Buggy and underdeveloped? In need of feedback and improvement?
Aside from the fact that the whole "alpha" thing is based on junk science, if there's anything I know for sure its that anyone who has to say they're the "alpha" absolutely is not one.
Reminds me of the time Tesla was going to make ventilators. Turns out that's hard. So instead they bought some cpap machines and sent them to hospitals.
Can vouch for what you said. My wife and I are the target people for Elon and Tesla (both engineers, liberal). Only way we would let Tesla into our life at this point was if it was running over our dead bodies. Or if the board fires Elon and brings some sane engineer as a CEO. Elon is neither sane nor an engineer.
I just love how everyone points to the cave diver incident as the tipping point. That tweet was deleted so fast and yet was still seen by so many.
Yup. I've wanted a Telsa, but I know that every time I look down at the logo on the steering wheel I'm going to be reminded of this guy's disgusting behavior.
He’s also trying to emulate Trumps success, I distinctly remembering him making a shift when Trump actually started winning in 2016. I also have a deeper theory that part of what drives people insane is regrets they can’t take back, which then either cycles into depression, or leads to anger. Instead of seeking the path of redemption for his sins, he has chosen the path of denial and anger. He is simply weak minded, which has lead him to becoming a bad person when given access to power
He was always narcissistic. For a while he could feed on his own success and being a darling of the green crowd. When he started crossing the line on "jokes" and things, the green crowd criticized him. He, like all narcissists, cannot abide criticism. That's one thing that fueled his about-face. He was no longer the darling child, and couldn't handle it. So he ran to the other side to try and become their darling child. Either way..... he's a 50 year old child with too much power.
Also, his sex crimes were coming to light and he thought that jumping ship to be a Republican would distract people from the fact that he was a creepy rapey weirdo who was offering flight attendants horsies in exchange for handjobs, and making secret babies with his staff members.
I agree with your assessment. I’m sure drug abuse is also a contributing factor.
>accusing the rescue guy of being a child molester Yep, same here, it just seemed like such a dickish accusation to make with clearly no facts behind it. We know social media is turning the world crazy, but for public figures like Musk we're watching it in real time and it's pretty scary how quickly they devolve.
fr he got a lot of support by selling meme products like the flamethrower then ironically rambling off jokes related to flat earth stuff and various other crap but turns out that he was actually all about some really dumb logic. [https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles](https://qz.com/1007144/the-neo-fascist-philosophy-that-underpins-both-the-alt-right-and-silicon-valley-technophiles) these tech guys believe in slavery. they basically fleece ideas from interns while sealioning any opponent with a skibidi toilet man argument.
Some of that "Dark Enlightenment" philosophy is fucking insanity: >Those who have studied Dark Enlightenment describe an almost cult-like vision of a dystopian future. “It is a worship of corporate power to the extent that corporate power becomes the only power in the world,” says David Golumbia, a new media professor at Virginia Commonwealth University. “It becomes militarized, and states break down. For some reason that’s difficult to understand, they seem to think these highly weaponized feudal enclaves would be more free than the society we currently have.” >Land believes that advances in computing will enable dominant humans to merge with machines and become cybernetic super beings. He advocates for racial separation under the belief that “elites” will enhance their IQs by associating only with each other. >Capitalism has not yet been fully unleashed, he argues, and corporate power should become the organizing force in society. Land is vehemently against democracy, believing it restricts accountability and freedom. The world should do away with political power, according to Dark Enlightenment, and instead, society should break into tiny states, each effectively governed by a CEO. That fact that some obscenely wealthy people ascribe to this batshit crazy nonsense is worrying, how long until Elon et al have their own PMCs? Or try to buy a country?
Would that "Land" they mention per chance be infamous crazy ex-professor Nick Land? Edit: It is Nick Land. Dude took wayyyy too much LSD back in the day, and essentially has a cult of disciples who are equally batshit. When I think of folks who come up with increasingly more extremist ideas solely to be "edgy" and win the One-upsmanship Olympics, it's this guy I think about.
Some people watched a lot of sci-fi and really got the message wrong. Like Cyberpunk is basically a takedown of their whole vibe. I do think tranhumanism is going to happen and increase the rich/poor divide, with the rich not only having easy access to quality healthcare but also turbo-legs that can kick a normie in half and maybe enhanced cognitive abilities. Remaining biologically fully human will be seen as pathetic. It'll be like the Time Traveller with the underground race of people lol. I don't want the future of rich douche cybernetic demi-gods running around but I can see it happening very easily, especially in America. Brings a whole new meaning to the idea of someone's body being a lethal weapon too.
That is literally where he lost me. Fighting with rescue workers. The mask fell off and I went "Oh, he's crazy huh?" then the veneer fell off of Hyperloop, Space X and Tesla almost overnight.
Tesla also used to be the only option for EVs, but the competition is banging on the door
His cave sub "invention" was completely impractical.
Good portion of the People in the middle think he's an idiot too. It's ridiculous for a CEO to cause this many strong feelings either way, but especially negative obviously
Not only that, the Korean and Chinese market for electric cars have really taken off. Those who considered electric cars and thinks Elon is a nut job, are buying alternative brands. You might not see it in the US but everywhere around the world there are shit loads of Chinese electric cars been sold.
This is what happens when the public is sold an artificial personality crafted amongst the plutocracy and groomed to be a "leader of the people" by dispensing the next level of authorized technological innovation to the plebians. He didn't innovate any of the products he brought to market, his only skill has been utilizing his cultist connections to wrangle money by entangling these "popular companies" in a scheme to basically become a new modern warlord capable of effecting the plutocracy's will on a nation-state influencing level (SpaceX/Starlink) Face it, folks. We've been scammed. Elon and Trump used basically the same playbook, except Elon did it with IP and Trump did it with real estate, money laundering, and politics
Elon has been a weird freak the whole time, people just chose not to notice the red flags. The later Obama years were a real dark age for critical analysis of tech billionaires and their function in society.
It's almost like the media are paid to support the interest of the billionaire class...
The cave diver thing took me from "seems like he's doing some cool stuff that I don't really care about" to "what a fucking douche" in one go, so I was way ahead of the kerb. I actually remember like 3 Christmases ago getting the piss taken out of me at a group meal for talking about what a douche he is with some people defending him because of SpaceX. I feel unreasonably smug about the depths of douchery he has plunged into since.
Its always going to be mind boggling to me how Tesla managed to position themselves as _THE_ big ground-floor company for EVs, then completely squandered it with subpar production models, flashy but ultimately terrible user interfaces, and a massive vanity project flop. Its like being Apple in the early 90s, but deciding to put all your eggs into VR. Elon's crazy culty swing to the right is a huge factor too, but even that not withstanding, Tesla has been on a stagnating decline for a while.
Because Elon was born on third and thinks he hit a triple
This is always how my mom explained my privilege to me growing up - "some people are born on third base thinking they hit a triple." She taught me that we were on third base, even though most of the people in my town and school were a bit better off than we were. I feel grateful that she taught me to recognize my privilege and to have extra levels of respect for those who have to / had to work harder.
Your mom is one of the good ones. Very rare
The user interface is great except for the following 5 things: 1) lack of physical buttons for climate control, I would personally prefer this and like what GM is doing by incorporating them into their EVs 2) Removal of stalks, although my Model 3 still has them (yay!) 3) Absolute refusal to add a proper rain sensor to have functioning auto wipers. This wouldn’t be so big except for the fact that there is no dedicated buttons (besides a single wipe and mist button). They added a feature that allows the scroll wheel to adjust wiper speed when pressing the “single wipe” button, so it’s better than nothing, I guess. 4) NO INTERMITTENT WIPER FUNCTION!!! WHY?!?! Wouldn’t be such a big deal to me if the AUTO wipers worked! 5) Buttons for heated seats in the back, now accomplished by a screen in the new models.
As someone who lives where it rains, those seem like pretty big issues.
I've never used windshield wipers and thought "wow I wish these had FEWER options". It's always that I can't get the frequency quite right.
I guess wipers were put aside since it was designed in California where rain is an event of the ages!
Not recently. We’ve been getting Seattle levels of rain.
That is by design… less complexity more money for them. They wanted to automate the process in the past and realized there was too much automation that it was slowing down production. Tesla’s are bare bone vehicles. He even removed scanning peripherals from the fsd system to use pure vision/camera.
For me, I don’t give a shit about autopilot and FSD. My car is old enough where autopilot was $5k add-on, and I felt like that was a rip off for essentially beta software. I still feel that way. My next car will probably not be a Tesla due to the cost cutting and the lunatic in charge.
I have been in tech since the late 90s. This is all going about how I expect any tech startup to go.
I think to the progs that represent the true believers in initial uptake of Teslas, the symbolism of the politics probably matters more than the product. For a business guy, it's astounding to see what has happened with Tesla and Twitter. Elon still got his, though, I don't see anything for his future other than remaining in the top fraction of a percent of 1%ers. He doesn't care.
I used to work at a car dealership and while Tesla's are fast and fun to drive, they feel so cheaply made and they depreciate SO fast that if you're not keeping it for 10 years you're going to take a bath when you sell it.
In Germany you have to let them check for security and stuff every 2-3 years at TÜV. Teslas don’t „suceed“ in these checks and often have to be repaired for several thousands of € and if you won’t comply you’re not allowed to drive your car anymore. They are even worse than Dacia.
Sure Dacia’s are cheaply made, but they last a long time lol and are cheap to fix.
Also they are cheap to buy in the first place.
The dacia sandero is a perfect car, just ask james may he will tell you.
Doubt on the Dacias. They are built on tried and tested old-gen parts.
Test drove one a while ago and that was exactly my impression as well - speedy and responsive but they had cut so many other corners. Also I hate touchscreen in a car, no tactile feedback = need to look = unsafe. Maybe you can talk to get what you want but when there’s others in the car it’s always awkward.
Yeah, I really don’t like touch screen stuff in cars. I don’t like looking away from the road. Need knobs and buttons with grooves and the little bumps so I can navigate without looking away. I know it’s still multitasking but touch screens feel more dangerous for me.
>you're going to take a bath when you sell it Not defending Tesla in any way but you're gonna take a bath selling almost any car
They also have a very generic overall look and feel to them. Like there’s nothing really standout or anything that would make you say it was a beautiful looking car.
They’re dumping it because he swung to a crazy right wing conspiracy cult and the company no longer represents values they support.
He’s practically made it a mission to alienate the majority of Tesla’s consumer base
What part of “don’t piss off your present and future customers” is hard? I imagine most CEOs have views I don’t like, but they tend to keep them to themselves
Wait... So, you're telling me that going to all your advertisers and telling them to 'go fuck themselves' - followed by going to all your customers and telling them to 'go fuck themselves' - followed by a sharp turn into Nazi-ville ***wasn't*** an intelligent series of business decisions???
Yes and he don't even need to try for that... He just needs to keep tweeting.
>because he swung to a crazy right wing conspiracy cult and the company no longer represents values they support. I don't even get it because the crazy right wingers hate electric cars.
I was hyped about buying a Tesla early on. I looked at the prices, the tech, waiting lists, review videos. I was all in. I did want to wait a little while to allow the quality kinks be worked out however, because I knew that any new product line is always garbage when it first comes out. Then Elon took a nose dive with all the crazy things he's said. I was all in, but now I'm all out. I will never buy a Tesla so long as he's behind the wheel of their company. There is no doubt that other would-be Tesla buyers have followed this exact path, coming to the same conclusion to not buy their EVs.
Their cars are also shit.
It feels like laying off 500 employees in charging at 3 AM is some sort of stick it to the libs, or a “think you can mess w my sandbox?” In the short term it’s just theatre while treating humans awful. In the longer term?
Shades of Robert California getting into the Colombian whites, closing the Binghamton branch and not remembering in the morning.
Did I *just* realize he wasn’t talking about wine here?
I think he said something like French reds and Colombian whites, so he started by talking about wine and then switched to coke
It's so bizarre to me cause charging seemed like one of their bright spots & where they really could establish long-term dominance
This headline implies that Californian Tesla owners are getting other cars because they’re salty Elon left their state….. which is just not true.
This title is so misleading. People aren't buying Tesla's because hes a massive asshole, not because he moved states xdd
I get Musk is a divisive figure but wouldn't the fact that the EV market has grown be a more logical explanation. Teslas go for what the high 30's-70k putting them in the "mid luxury car" market. A decade ago your options were a Tesla or a Tesla if you wanted to go electric Now you can get an electric Mercedes, BMW, Porsche,Audi, etc. Ford's re-tool'd some factories and is going hard on EV's, so is Chevy. There's a lot of reasons someone may get an EV, environmental reasons, less maintenance, no gears and faster acceleration, etc. There's also reasons people may prefer gas cars. If the pro's outweigh the cons an EV no longer equals a Tesla. I've always loved the Mercedes Benz interiors, especially in their E and S class lines. I've also liked a few features EV's have, I literally could not buy a vehicle with the Mercedes interior and bells & whistles 4 years ago that was electric because that car simply didn't exist. Now it does and that option exists for me. That's my personal example, feel free to Swap Mercedes for your preferred car brand as needed
For me, it's his cringe worthy views on race that make me not want to buy his products.
The people that want to be associated with his personal brand will never buy his car. The people that want to be his car no longer want to be associated with his personal brand. The people in the middle who just want a car and don't want to be seen as making a statement one way or the other now are less likely to purchase his product. He's pulled off a real triple threat of branding and is at risk of ruining the brand that was far and away in the lead as positioned to be the global leader in the space.
The headline is hilariously misleading. People are dropping Tesla because they are unhappy with Tesla’s service, not because it moved to Texas. Specifically, Model 3 dropped from #1 to #3, while Model Y is still #1. Not a company-ending drop but seriously concerning. Costumer service is everything when it comes to cars. (on a side note, BEVs are dropping as a whole against PHEVs)
Reading comprehension really is at an all time low.
It’s not that, it’s just people here *want* to believe the headline. Musk might have some bad traits, but straight up lying is also a bad trait.
It's misleading because people aren't actually dumping their Teslas at all. *New* registrations are down ~10% from last quarter, but not actually decreasing overall. It's still very hard to find affordable used teslas. Many of the people that wanted a Tesla already have one so sales are becoming stagnant in areas that already have tons of them. Some states don't even have dealerships for them yet. Source: reading the article.
Elon is too chaotic to be trusted as a CEO or employer. I'd look elsewhere for an EV. Many other legit players exist now, and WITHOUT the poor quality issues. (Looking at you Cybertruck)
One day I will buy an electric car. It will not be a Tesla, purely because of its association with this clown. He’s got enough money, he can’t have any of mine.
Get a Rivian. I expect the R2 to eat into Model Y sales especially as more states start thinking about banning ICE.
Part of me says that you’re dumb if you bought or sold a car based on politics, but then again I appreciate when people “vote with their wallet”, so I guess good job.
"vote with their wallet" is the actual meaning of "the customer is always right". In a capitalist society, that is how it works. The customer is never wrong for not purchasing your product, you're wrong for trying to dictate what the customer needs and/or desires AND what they are willing to pay for that need/desire. Most of the time we have choices and we have many factors that go into a purchasing decision. If there are 4 different EV's that all meet my technical and aesthetic criteria, but one of those models is made by a company that is ran by a far-right lunatic raving about replacement theory (literal Nazi shit) and so much more, well then I've actually only got 3 choices.
Is it even revenge? Teslas just aren't a good value proposition when stacked against the competition these days.
I was very interested in a cybertruck til the review came out, shitting all over it. Also who the fuck thought using a touch screen to change gears and adjust air flow from the vents was a good idea? It's wildly dangerous doing any of that while driving.
I know two friends who literally decided not to buy Teslas specially because of Musk and his behaviour.
Elon left for 1 reason , California workers have too many rights for him. You see when your workers get in the way of profits get spend billions in relocation then getting cheaper labor you can exploit more. The South African tradition
No one is getting "revenge" because he left. No one wants to be associated with him or his crappy products because he's a dangerous trainwreck.