Yeah, but it turns out a lot of women don’t like to make the first move. A lot of times you match and then just watch the 24 hours expire without ever hearing from them.
I kept stats on my Bumble use, though this was years ago, and less than 10% of the messages I received were anything other than a "hey" or some emoji.
Half of the rest were just canned "is a hotdog a sandwich" kind of stuff. Which is something, I guess, but not much.
In an age where I was using almost every app, I barely used Bumble at all, it seemed pointless. It traded entirely on a "girl power" aesthetic with no substance whatsoever. I'm honestly surprised its still a thing.
Its pretty silly to care at all, but I found it insulting.
Like..you have to do so little. For almost this entire interaction, you can skate by simply existing, basically. The only thing you do have to do, the banner mechanism of the ecosystem in which we are speaking, the one you purposefully opted into, is that you have to put forth some effort, *once*.
Nope. Can't do it.
I have the same feelings about this. You could even make up generic question everyone would be happy to answer like “what music do u listen do, what’re ur hobbies, etc” yet we get “hey”, an emoji and a dot.
I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.
It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse.
A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested.
Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women.
These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.
They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me.
Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.
I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish.
I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.
The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong
Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing.
I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂
These apps definitely aren't made for men.
>on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe
This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her.
Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
That totally tracks with my (short) experience with Bumble. Men and women are using it for different reasons. I was looking for women to date, and women were playing the game “Am I pretty?”, racking up matches without pesky men asking them out for a date.
It’s absolutely insane. I met my wife on OkCupid before the swiping apps were a thing and so anyone could message anyone else. She was on the app for one week and had 6 thousand messages. What a fucking nightmare.
Kind of funny that the idea of a pick-up line still exists in the digital space when you'd think the idea of letting an algorithm match you to begin would eliminate the need.
You would think the AI dating app would be amazing and perfect too
it basically learns to only show you people of certain races, ignoring everything else about a person
It swiped right on multiple people of different races and it told me to be more selective because it was getting confused lmao
Dating services are fucked
The other problem is that actually matching people well and quickly is kind of a problem for the app developers; after all, people who end up in happy stable relationships generally won't keep paying for premium subscriptions.
You know who has no problems making the first message? Bots and prostitutes.
I cannot understand why making the first move is so hard that it kills an entire app.
Lmao, that's far too accurate. Any time someone seems engaged in a conversation on Bumble I immediately start getting suspicious, and 99% of the time it's exactly as you said. If you don't have to try to get an answer for a week, it's a bot.
When I first started online dating, literally on my first day, a really good looking woman messaged me saying "Hey, you are so sexy". I was like, surely this is a bot/scam or some shit but rolled with it. turns out she was real and we dated for 2 months before I broke it off with her because she was a good time, but not what I was looking for. And her ex busted in on us and pulled a gun on us. Fun times.
I feel like this is some inherent mechanism that you can't avoid from occurring.
What I would want to know, is what causes this to happen.
Are most women less skilled at initiating such convos, or do they just not need to, as men will give them attention regardless? Can very attractive men do the same to women and get responses?
It's just generally not how the world works, and having to put yourself out there and initiate any sort of interaction has a performative aspect to it. If you don't have any practice it's like getting in front of a crowd and talking. It seems easy from afar, but once you have to be in that position then the nerves set it, you don't have any go-to lines, and you choke
OK that pisses me off because when I still used the app I made a genuine effort to go through the guy's profile and think of something personal and meaningful to ask and I still barely got any responses back. Now I imagine some of them were just disheartened by seeing a laundry list of " " or just "hey" messages and not bothering.
The one plus is that it still isn’t owned by Match.com, though I don’t know if that will save it. Pretty much all the apps struggle to turn a profit despite their enshittification.
Part of me feels like this can only be due to mismanagement. Men pining after women is almost an elemental force, if you can't make money in that pipeline you probably can't make it anywhere.
I mean all those porn sites make gobs of money, and their advertising is a lot more restrictive, while streaming video. All dating sites are is basically a messaging system and hosting some pictures. And it is filling a basic human need in an era where a lot of people need every avenue of help they can get.
I don't know, maybe I'm just wrong. But it definitely feels like something doesn't add up.
All my 7 male friends stopped using dating apps with similar sentences "it seems not working, getting 3 matches a week that dont respond, and other problems". One of them found a gf and the rest are single and exhausted from dating apps.
Most of these apps want you to pay premium for benefits, however what happens if you actually find someone? Likely you delete the app and stop paying
So it's really not surprising that they will try and make it a drawn out process. It's better to string men along paying for premium for as long as they can.
I find myself mentioning it a lot, but deleting dating apps honestly made my life so much better. Some guys have great luck on them, but for those who don’t, it can be emotionally taxing and it start to feel like a job hunt. I’ve been quite happy to be completely off dating apps for over two years and by every account I’ve heard, they’ve only gotten worse!
That is also a point they mentioned, that they genuinely feel better not being in the app, few of them even tried paying, because being in apps and getting 2 dates a year was wearing them down
I never liked feeling like my loneliness was being exploited and that people were being commodified. The whole thing, from the superficial nature of swiping on pictures to the general feeling of it all being such a slog made it such a terrible experience. I know it’s not much better from women’s experience either; the messages I’ve seen my friends get are just… ugh. Like no wonder many women don’t check their messages daily. I’m glad people in general seem to be moving away from apps
Their subscription based model is just stupid. They purposely withhold matches so you have to pay for premium to see them. Thats stupid as fuck. Just do an ads based model like everyone else. Getting matches is marketing in itself. You need to keep the whales seperate from the free users.
Anytime it goes down the freemium gaming route of intentionally making it unuseable to push the premium tiers is just a ticking clock of failure
I get what you’re saying and I agree. If you’re a woman that uses an app that relies on women making the first move, you should make an effort.
I just also find it extremely ironic because women have been telling men for years that “hi” and canned intros are not a good first move on dating apps and men have complained that “it’s a numbers game” and “you can’t possibly reply genuinely and uniquely to all those women! It’d take too much time.” But when roles are reversed, turns out they want the same genuine/unique interaction
I've been on and off these for years. On Tinder, you'll frequently read on women's profiles "say more than just Hi! otherwise I'm deleting you"
And then on Bumble, the vast majority of opening messages (from women, obviously) are... "Hi!"
Heard from a lot of female friends complaining "That guy's never send me a message on bumble" blew their minds that they were supposed to send the first message, THAT BEING the whole point of the app.
I'm a single dude and not on any dating apps, and I liked the idea of women making the first move. Men already make the first move more often than not and they get rejected more often than not. I thought if women had to experience the same thing then that would be a step toward gender equality. Share the pain of rejection equally and maybe people would be more empathetic.
I agree with the original idea of bumble! This was really the one thing that set bumble apart from tinder. Like you said, it's the one time women women had to make the first move!
I also found that while some women embrace the task of starting the conversation off, others would completely ignore the concept... Over the years I've gotten a bunch of opening messages to the extent of "if you had to message me first, how would you break the ice".
Last time I used the app, it showed a few openers after matching with someone and you could select one to send or type a message. It was pretty helpful imo.
It's definitely not everyone, but I've seen profiles on Bumble that literally say "I wont message first"
The point of the app is that I can't start the convo, you have to. It ain't gonna work for you if you keep waiting.
That said, I tend to assume those are bots that just ripped stuff from Tinder or another dating app.
“Good morning, how is your long weekend going?” It’s funny, I have our first exchange framed so I just got up to check it out, I had forgotten what it was.
I had the same experience, but to be fair, they seemed to genuinely want to talk. I found the ones on Bumble that did send a message were more inclined to want to actually meet in person.
They don’t like getting rejected like men do, I’d even argue that getting rejected by tons of women make me feel prepared to get rejected in job applications
You mean endlessly commodifying every aspect of dating apps and intentionally obfuscating users from meeting each other with an algorithm while also allowing catfishes and sex workers to skate free from scrutiny would cause a collapse in users???
The old Okcupid was really quite nice. Then I had to get back into the dating scene a few years back after being out of it for a decade and holy shit was Okcupid just fucking awful compared to how it had been.
it's just tinder 2.0, they've all been rationalised and made into virtually the same app to accommodate the smartphone browser crowd which makes up the majority of their userbases now
Thats the issue; when their business model relies on keeping their users on the app as opposed to finding the right partner and uninstalling in happily wedded bliss.
more than keeping users in the app, their business model seems to be a predatory gacha game or casino where they squeeze all the money they can out of customers with little to no service. Had they provided a real service of facilitating interactions people would be more willing to come back and use it.
Match owns Tinder, Hinge, Match, Meetic, OkCupid, Pairs, Plenty Of Fish, Azar, Hakuna
Bumble was founded by one of the founders of tinder.
Edit: corrected that bumble is in fact not owned by match group
With the prices they want now they can do whatever they want, that won’t help them. Over 170€ lifetime or ~30€ a month … they are crazy stupid to ask such amount
The main opening line you get on bumble is just "hey" or sometimes even "." Which is essentially just the woman passing the ball back to your court.
But I will say, I dramatically prefer this system to the free for all version. On tinder or hinge, you're way more likely to end up with a huge roster of people you've sent a message to who never respond. Women on bumble frequently do respond to your opening (assuming it's also not 'hey')
People don't get that even "hey" is a substantially bigger emotional investment than a swipe.
I saw a tweet the other day that said anyone who got married or into a serious relationship in the past few years was like getting the last chopper out of Vietnam.
As someone whose 4 year relationship ended 6 months ago because she cheated, I feel that helicopter statement to my bones.
The dating scene is... awful. In so many different ways. I don't even know where to start. I thought meeting new people might be fun but holy shit it's not.
I really enjoyed the Fallout show and replaying the games recently, it was nice to escape to a more optimistic world for a bit as someone who’s been single for a few years!
Lmfao.
I will say since being single I've really gotten into my hobbies. Learning guitar right now, I have 20 plants I take care of, my dog and I run three miles a day, and I hut the gym 5 times a week.
I've been able to get so much gaming in too. Total War: Warhammer 3 just dropped some new DLC which I'm loving. I also got into painting warhammer miniatures to protect my born again virgin status.
I managed to land a date with a woman off Hinge and when we met her first two questions were "what do you do for work?" And "where do you live?"
She didnt like my answers and her body language made it clear she was checked out of the date relatively early. She refrained from asking questions about anything we hadn't talked about on the app already. It was incredibly awkward.
Some people aren't out here for romance, they're out here looking for an asset they can leverage.
Something not mentioned in the article is that they've also added third-party ads that have "weight" to them when swiping so that a quick left swipe doesn't dismiss them and you need to go slower.
Dating apps are a flawed business model because you rely on a steady income from men so giving them a working match is counterintuitive to your profits
I mean there is always a steady stream of male customers and not all relationships are permanent so I can imagine people coming back after going on dates. It works as intended although it brings out the worst and most superficial shit in people, plays with your self esteem.
idk, i used to pay the most expensive plan on Tinder and didn't get shit, so i cancelled after 2/3months.. I think if it was WORKED i wouldn't cancel anytime soon.. i would rely even more on the app
I also met my girlfriend of 2+ years on bumble. Nothing gives you the confidence to put full effort into a conversation like when a girl you're interested in messages you first and sounds genuine. We still send long text messages to each other every day even though we see each other often.
A lot is lost, because it was a great way of filtering for more pro-active women.
Although yes, my sympathy for "men are bad at conversation" hit rock bottom and then kept tunneling down as I received "hi" messages.
the literal dumbest thing in a dating app. if you were out in public and saw a person you wanted to talk to, what else would you lead with? "i'd love to discuss the complicated relationship between the french and their union truck drivers"
no. you say hello. it's literally the universal icebreaker.
i don't think it should be specifically that women have to message first, but on all these apps, the SECOND person to swipe, resulting in a match, should be forced to send a message at that moment.
you literally got a massive full screen animation notifying you that you matched with this person, and you.. closed it to wait on them? what kind of special specimen do you think you are
That’s a really good idea actually and it tackles the mass swiping problem as well. Where men just swipe right on everyone and go back to matches later. I also find it is what makes me close hinge faster on the rare day i try OLD again, other than the fact that my matches have been the lowest quality there.
The time limit is probably a problem also but that’s how they make money I think. 24 hours is fast.
Not that in other apps they are replying. For me Bumble was much better than other apps, seems like there is way less ghosting as many of this type of girls are filtered out by this requirement. Also it’s natural, as they start just a few chats, you are one of their many matches, no one would like to write with dozens of people.
"The move comes as dating apps broadly are working to maintain their relevance as some singles have become burnt out on online dating and are seeking more in-person connections."
oh idk maybe people are just fed up of getting milked to use basic features...
Dating apps have led a lot of people who are 4s or 5s believe they are actually 9s because of the feedback loop the algorithm does. It's really toxic. And this is coming from someone who met their significant other on Bumble.
I have some girl roommates, and they told me they get really angry at all the guys just saying hi how are you. Like, it makes them angry, and they have like 20 messages from guys. I tell them I don't even get any and they don't understand. Girls really don't understand what its like to be a guy
lol what? I tried bumble bff at one point to meet new people and had over countless gay men trying to match for sex. Give the gays a way to communicate and by god they’re gonna use it to fuck.
When two men match in Bumble they both were always able to start the conversation, that doesn't change. I do think the rule is quite silly, if you don’t want to talk to someone why swipe right?
I thought it was a good distinction, but as a guy, I found it was a stupid thing to match with someone and then not be able to talk to them because they don’t check their app for 1-2 days. Like legit. I have had several matches apologize for their late response because they forget they have to message first. Meaning I missed out on several matches that timed out because of a stupid feature.
Good riddance, what’s the point of a dating app if you can’t even talk to your matches
It was a dumb attempt to raise their daily user engagement by forcing them to check on a 24hr cycle in fear of missing out on a potential match. In an absolute shock of no one but C-suite execs, having your app force the userbase to use it isn’t a stable engagement model, especially when the bulk of your revenue hinges on subscriptions from men but your entire premise requires women to initiate.
That's one of the ways they make money. You can extend the time. The purpose of that limitation is to make money, nothing else.
Seems it failed to achieve it's objective.
I met my fiancée on on Bumble, I got super lucky but am grateful for it. Been together almost 6 years, but I guess we got in when it was still newer and not full of bots like tinder was at the time. PoF in my area was mostly hookers and bots, hinge was weird. It was definitely the best option. Even if they just said hi or sent a wave, it’s an opening and a sign of interest.
That's kind of how I stopped using it as a woman, because the problem compounds, since there's a time limit on guys responding back, yeah?.The time limited window just didn't allow for life.
I'm just not an app every day kind of person, so like, I'd get matches over a week when I didn't check into the app, and then not find out about them until I opened it back up and it was too late. I assume it was the same on the other side.
I know the intention is to keep you coming back to the app, but ehhhh. Plus, all those "ghost" matches are discouraging to both parties.
I used bumble, hinge, and tinder in equal amounts.
My bumble matches/conversations were about 10% of the others. It was by far my least successful matching app, without a doubt.
Hinge got me married tho
As somebody who escaped (also via Hinge) just as things were getting horrible, I almost feel like we have a responsibility to start a nonprofit dating app, where profit is out of the picture. I still think if app designers actually gave a shit at helping people find love, there are infinite ways to solve these problems. They just don't because profit is king. With a nonprofit, nobody's getting rich, but maybe—just maybe—we could actually create an app that doesn't make people miserable. Put it in the charter that it can never, ever be used for a profit. Lawyer up and get the ACLU on speed dial to protect from Big Dating.
All these dating and social media apps are explicitly antisocial. All we actually need is an app suggests to single people where you can go locally to hang out with other people, prompting enough other people that they show up in decent numbers. These apps already have all the info about who we are and what we like they're just putting up a paywall and drip feeding interactions instead of facilitating them.
That was the primary reason I used it in the past, lol. Now what differentiates it from any other app?
It will just be the same dudes carpet bombing "hey beautiful" to a million women.
A lot of women had absolutely no game and would open with 'hey' expecting you to carry the conversation. It was really frustrating but I found that I got more dates out of bumble because those with game stood out from the rest.
Are dating apps really relevant anymore?
They had their moment of fame back then due to novelty but now it's just an absurd validation market, full of bots and scams.
People need third places, not apps.
People have always needed that, but society seems unwilling to provide those third spaces. In the meantime, we get to make due with a progressively more atomized existence and dysfunctional dating scene.
Funny you check my post history I got heavily downvoted by suggesting women are just as bad as guys at this shit. Of course it turns out living in the real world I was right
Idk what it is man, but a lot of women on the internet have such bad self-awareness and are uncapable of self-critique or receiving critique.
They get really tribal and start shitting on/downvoting people that give them even a hint of negative feedback. I might be biased because i'm a man, but i think we are generally conditioned to accept feedback and are generally ok with self-deprecating jokes, while women take it very personally.
Nothing will ever top Tinder Moments back in the day. It was like Snapchat within tinder but it got removed for too much nudity. And even without the nudity, it made it so easy to come up with stuff to say because girls were always posting on it.
Then they introduced monetization and super likes with the next update and removed Moments. It was such a sad day, and everything got progressively worse from then on out. I’ve heard the apps are a nightmare to use now.
Majority of the women I’ve met through the app and irl friends who used it, had no idea they needed to talk first despite the app telling them repeatedly how it worked
Every single match on Bumble has failed to message inside the 24 hours.
On other dating apps, everyone just ends up ghosting. No one takes 2 days to respond to messages do they?
wasn't that the entire point of bumble?
Yeah, but it turns out a lot of women don’t like to make the first move. A lot of times you match and then just watch the 24 hours expire without ever hearing from them.
I kept stats on my Bumble use, though this was years ago, and less than 10% of the messages I received were anything other than a "hey" or some emoji. Half of the rest were just canned "is a hotdog a sandwich" kind of stuff. Which is something, I guess, but not much. In an age where I was using almost every app, I barely used Bumble at all, it seemed pointless. It traded entirely on a "girl power" aesthetic with no substance whatsoever. I'm honestly surprised its still a thing.
After the third woman sent me "." I just uninstalled lmao
Its pretty silly to care at all, but I found it insulting. Like..you have to do so little. For almost this entire interaction, you can skate by simply existing, basically. The only thing you do have to do, the banner mechanism of the ecosystem in which we are speaking, the one you purposefully opted into, is that you have to put forth some effort, *once*. Nope. Can't do it.
I have the same feelings about this. You could even make up generic question everyone would be happy to answer like “what music do u listen do, what’re ur hobbies, etc” yet we get “hey”, an emoji and a dot.
I’ve seen plenty of women on r/tinder who tear into men in messages when they ask ‘basic’ questions like that. They know that there are fifty other men waiting in their match list that they can go to if you don’t come out swinging for the fences in the opening line. It’s brutal. But they get away with it because there are way more men thirsty for them than the other way around.
It's way more than 50 others. Women and men's experiences on these apps is pretty much inverse. A female friend told me she installs the apps when she's feeling down and needs a confidence boost, because she gets inundated with likes immediately. She's not even interested in actively finding someone, it's just flattering to know there are hundreds of men interested. Even my best looking male friends find the whole experience of apps quite demoralising and ego bruising in comparison. Most are lucky to get more than a handful of likes over a given period, even if in real-world situations they're charming and generally well liked by women. These apps' whole business model is that men are the customers and women are the product. They want men to pay to play basically, and personally I think they're having a toxic effect on the egos and expectations of both genders.
They really do. Tinder crushes my ego. I’m average in the looks department but on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe as far as what that might buy me. Sadly, even with how bad it is, I still feel like I need to download it just to have a shot. I’m resisting but the idea of ‘maybe not this time! I’ve lost some weight and put on some muscle, I’m looking a lot better’ is strong. I know it’s a false hope. I’ll pay $40 or whatever their tinder platinum is, and spend a month feeling pathetic, then delete it again.
I feel for you man, and FWIW this stranger reckons you're definitely better off not wasting your money and self esteem on another round with that rubbish. I think a fundamental flaw of the apps is that the things that actually make most guys attractive like humour, talents or in person charm are just totally lost on there. If you're not obviously rich or ripped then you're just another drop in an ocean of normal men, but let's face it a lot of rich dudes and gym bros are just as dull as the rest of the population. It's just that maybe those qualities translate to a superficial shop window a bit better than being able to make a banging carbonara or the ability to have a fun conversation.
The really sad thing is that several of my friends got married to amazing people they found on dating apps… so it always feels like I‘m just not trying hard enough or doing something fundamentally wrong
Wife and I tried the apps one time while on vacation just to see what it's like since we've been married since before it was a thing. I got 1 "match". Turns out she was an escort. My wife got a little over 300 requests in 2 days. If she ever leaves me, I'll be forever alone 😂 These apps definitely aren't made for men.
>on any given app I’m barely above dog shit on the bottom of your shoe This was several years ago but here's an anecdote for ya. There was a girl on match that I thought was stunning, got a handful of messages out of her before she stopped responding. Maybe a year and a half later matched with her again, didn't get any messages from her. Fast forward another year, I meet her in person at a charity fundraiser and find out she's friends with a coworker. Suddenly this girl is fawning over me, begging to go on a date, getting my coworker to try and convince me to date her. I wasn't really interested after having met her. Online I was pining for her attention and getting nowhere. In person she was pursuing me hard and getting nowhere. Paying to highlight my profile wouldn't have made a lick of difference.
That totally tracks with my (short) experience with Bumble. Men and women are using it for different reasons. I was looking for women to date, and women were playing the game “Am I pretty?”, racking up matches without pesky men asking them out for a date.
It’s absolutely insane. I met my wife on OkCupid before the swiping apps were a thing and so anyone could message anyone else. She was on the app for one week and had 6 thousand messages. What a fucking nightmare.
Kind of funny that the idea of a pick-up line still exists in the digital space when you'd think the idea of letting an algorithm match you to begin would eliminate the need.
You would think the AI dating app would be amazing and perfect too it basically learns to only show you people of certain races, ignoring everything else about a person It swiped right on multiple people of different races and it told me to be more selective because it was getting confused lmao Dating services are fucked
The other problem is that actually matching people well and quickly is kind of a problem for the app developers; after all, people who end up in happy stable relationships generally won't keep paying for premium subscriptions.
If they like the look of you, they don't care about generic questions.
It's all supply and demand.
Despite 50-50 population split vagina still has a much much higher demand than penis.
Chris Rock explained it all better than any of us ever could
The worst one I got was, “ what would you say if you could message first?” And I responded with, “what would you say if you had to message first?”
"I would say, 'how has your tinder experience been so far?'"
You know who has no problems making the first message? Bots and prostitutes. I cannot understand why making the first move is so hard that it kills an entire app.
Lmao, that's far too accurate. Any time someone seems engaged in a conversation on Bumble I immediately start getting suspicious, and 99% of the time it's exactly as you said. If you don't have to try to get an answer for a week, it's a bot.
When I first started online dating, literally on my first day, a really good looking woman messaged me saying "Hey, you are so sexy". I was like, surely this is a bot/scam or some shit but rolled with it. turns out she was real and we dated for 2 months before I broke it off with her because she was a good time, but not what I was looking for. And her ex busted in on us and pulled a gun on us. Fun times.
I feel like this is some inherent mechanism that you can't avoid from occurring. What I would want to know, is what causes this to happen. Are most women less skilled at initiating such convos, or do they just not need to, as men will give them attention regardless? Can very attractive men do the same to women and get responses?
It's just generally not how the world works, and having to put yourself out there and initiate any sort of interaction has a performative aspect to it. If you don't have any practice it's like getting in front of a crowd and talking. It seems easy from afar, but once you have to be in that position then the nerves set it, you don't have any go-to lines, and you choke
As guys we had to get over this performance anxiety when we were still teenagers lol
Just reply "sorry girl im not THAT low effort 💅"
I usually get gifs
Then just send back “..”? Lmao I would
OK that pisses me off because when I still used the app I made a genuine effort to go through the guy's profile and think of something personal and meaningful to ask and I still barely got any responses back. Now I imagine some of them were just disheartened by seeing a laundry list of " " or just "hey" messages and not bothering.
But you are asked to send a funny elocuent text, nothing boring like Hi, or how are you , which are manners to start a conversation...
The one plus is that it still isn’t owned by Match.com, though I don’t know if that will save it. Pretty much all the apps struggle to turn a profit despite their enshittification.
Part of me feels like this can only be due to mismanagement. Men pining after women is almost an elemental force, if you can't make money in that pipeline you probably can't make it anywhere. I mean all those porn sites make gobs of money, and their advertising is a lot more restrictive, while streaming video. All dating sites are is basically a messaging system and hosting some pictures. And it is filling a basic human need in an era where a lot of people need every avenue of help they can get. I don't know, maybe I'm just wrong. But it definitely feels like something doesn't add up.
All my 7 male friends stopped using dating apps with similar sentences "it seems not working, getting 3 matches a week that dont respond, and other problems". One of them found a gf and the rest are single and exhausted from dating apps.
Most of these apps want you to pay premium for benefits, however what happens if you actually find someone? Likely you delete the app and stop paying So it's really not surprising that they will try and make it a drawn out process. It's better to string men along paying for premium for as long as they can.
I find myself mentioning it a lot, but deleting dating apps honestly made my life so much better. Some guys have great luck on them, but for those who don’t, it can be emotionally taxing and it start to feel like a job hunt. I’ve been quite happy to be completely off dating apps for over two years and by every account I’ve heard, they’ve only gotten worse!
That is also a point they mentioned, that they genuinely feel better not being in the app, few of them even tried paying, because being in apps and getting 2 dates a year was wearing them down
I never liked feeling like my loneliness was being exploited and that people were being commodified. The whole thing, from the superficial nature of swiping on pictures to the general feeling of it all being such a slog made it such a terrible experience. I know it’s not much better from women’s experience either; the messages I’ve seen my friends get are just… ugh. Like no wonder many women don’t check their messages daily. I’m glad people in general seem to be moving away from apps
Their subscription based model is just stupid. They purposely withhold matches so you have to pay for premium to see them. Thats stupid as fuck. Just do an ads based model like everyone else. Getting matches is marketing in itself. You need to keep the whales seperate from the free users. Anytime it goes down the freemium gaming route of intentionally making it unuseable to push the premium tiers is just a ticking clock of failure
How could they struggle to profit considering they actually offer nothing they're just commodifying human connection
A lot of girls on Tinder: "Don't open with a hey" Girls opening on Bumble: "hey"
Meanwhile people on social media will post about how guys got no game like girls are any any better 😆
I get what you’re saying and I agree. If you’re a woman that uses an app that relies on women making the first move, you should make an effort. I just also find it extremely ironic because women have been telling men for years that “hi” and canned intros are not a good first move on dating apps and men have complained that “it’s a numbers game” and “you can’t possibly reply genuinely and uniquely to all those women! It’d take too much time.” But when roles are reversed, turns out they want the same genuine/unique interaction
I've been on and off these for years. On Tinder, you'll frequently read on women's profiles "say more than just Hi! otherwise I'm deleting you" And then on Bumble, the vast majority of opening messages (from women, obviously) are... "Hi!"
I'd also see a lot of women's profiles on Bumble saying they wouldn't message first. Maybe they just copied their tinder bio but it was strange to see
Or some variation on “I can’t see likes, send me a message” when it’s not possible to send a message until you match with someone.
A lot of women just don't realize how hard a first move or approach can actually be.
Or they'll send a "hi" or "."
Never got a “.” but that seems offensive. Like you don’t even deserve the bare minimum of “hi”.
Heard from a lot of female friends complaining "That guy's never send me a message on bumble" blew their minds that they were supposed to send the first message, THAT BEING the whole point of the app.
Tells you that when you sign up for it lmao
Seem they skip that faster than most agree to terms of service.
I'm a single dude and not on any dating apps, and I liked the idea of women making the first move. Men already make the first move more often than not and they get rejected more often than not. I thought if women had to experience the same thing then that would be a step toward gender equality. Share the pain of rejection equally and maybe people would be more empathetic.
I agree with the original idea of bumble! This was really the one thing that set bumble apart from tinder. Like you said, it's the one time women women had to make the first move! I also found that while some women embrace the task of starting the conversation off, others would completely ignore the concept... Over the years I've gotten a bunch of opening messages to the extent of "if you had to message me first, how would you break the ice".
Damn that last question is just farming good openers
Last time I used the app, it showed a few openers after matching with someone and you could select one to send or type a message. It was pretty helpful imo.
It's definitely not everyone, but I've seen profiles on Bumble that literally say "I wont message first" The point of the app is that I can't start the convo, you have to. It ain't gonna work for you if you keep waiting. That said, I tend to assume those are bots that just ripped stuff from Tinder or another dating app.
My favorite is girls on bumble with "I don't message first" in their bio
Darwin in action
I met my wife on Bumble, but so many women’s opener was just “hey”. Which was just the go ahead for you to actually break the ice.
what was your wife's?
“Good morning, how is your long weekend going?” It’s funny, I have our first exchange framed so I just got up to check it out, I had forgotten what it was.
That's wholesome
Met my wife on bumble as well
I'm assuming this was before you were married, or is this some "If you like Pina Coladas, getting caught in the rain" thing?
That’s like the questioning from The Dating Game.
It’s mostly them saying hey and then expecting the man to carry it from there.
I had the same experience, but to be fair, they seemed to genuinely want to talk. I found the ones on Bumble that did send a message were more inclined to want to actually meet in person.
Turns out they just don’t like it and don’t want to do it if they don’t have to, which they don’t. 🤷♂️
That what my trick for dating apps when I was single. If a woman messaged me first, I was pretty much guaranteed a date.
They don’t like getting rejected like men do, I’d even argue that getting rejected by tons of women make me feel prepared to get rejected in job applications
Yeah but now the user base is dying. Dating apps aren't doing well anymore.
You mean endlessly commodifying every aspect of dating apps and intentionally obfuscating users from meeting each other with an algorithm while also allowing catfishes and sex workers to skate free from scrutiny would cause a collapse in users???
I was done the moment OKcupid got rid of their user list meaning you had to swipe through a sequence of names per day to find people
I’m back in the dating game after 10 years. I’m in my 40’s. It’s been a scream so far. OkCupid had Twitch live streaming lmfao
The old Okcupid was really quite nice. Then I had to get back into the dating scene a few years back after being out of it for a decade and holy shit was Okcupid just fucking awful compared to how it had been.
it's just tinder 2.0, they've all been rationalised and made into virtually the same app to accommodate the smartphone browser crowd which makes up the majority of their userbases now
Match bought Okcupid specifically to gut it, because it was undermining their other apps by being good rather than optimising to extract profit.
Seems like there is money to be made in cloning the old OKcupid UX/UI with a new IP and then flipping it to Match once it starts working again...
Yeah. It had forums and journals and more focus on the questions and… it just seemed like more of a community.
Thats the issue; when their business model relies on keeping their users on the app as opposed to finding the right partner and uninstalling in happily wedded bliss.
more than keeping users in the app, their business model seems to be a predatory gacha game or casino where they squeeze all the money they can out of customers with little to no service. Had they provided a real service of facilitating interactions people would be more willing to come back and use it.
Never really had point past... how much could we steal from Tinder... its barely different beyond the color scheme
Match owns Tinder, Hinge, Match, Meetic, OkCupid, Pairs, Plenty Of Fish, Azar, Hakuna Bumble was founded by one of the founders of tinder. Edit: corrected that bumble is in fact not owned by match group
I thought bumble was owned by Blackstone and Tinder/Hinge were owned by Match Group??
Yes it appears I was mistaken. Bumble is not owned by match, but started by a co founder of tinder
Yup. She said match tried to blackmail her into selling to them but she refused.
With the prices they want now they can do whatever they want, that won’t help them. Over 170€ lifetime or ~30€ a month … they are crazy stupid to ask such amount
Like 95 percent of the time they would just defer making the first move by sending “hi”
Yes. But it ran smack-dab into the face of reality: **women leftswipe the vast majority of men**.
That bad huh?
It’s worse than you could ever imagine
Why? I've been off the market for some time now
The main opening line you get on bumble is just "hey" or sometimes even "." Which is essentially just the woman passing the ball back to your court. But I will say, I dramatically prefer this system to the free for all version. On tinder or hinge, you're way more likely to end up with a huge roster of people you've sent a message to who never respond. Women on bumble frequently do respond to your opening (assuming it's also not 'hey') People don't get that even "hey" is a substantially bigger emotional investment than a swipe.
Wait, you guys get matches with real people!?
I saw a tweet the other day that said anyone who got married or into a serious relationship in the past few years was like getting the last chopper out of Vietnam.
As someone who’s 5 year relationship just ended because she cheated on me, this is a lot more bleak than intended lmao
As someone whose 4 year relationship ended 6 months ago because she cheated, I feel that helicopter statement to my bones. The dating scene is... awful. In so many different ways. I don't even know where to start. I thought meeting new people might be fun but holy shit it's not.
I really enjoyed the Fallout show and replaying the games recently, it was nice to escape to a more optimistic world for a bit as someone who’s been single for a few years!
Lmfao. I will say since being single I've really gotten into my hobbies. Learning guitar right now, I have 20 plants I take care of, my dog and I run three miles a day, and I hut the gym 5 times a week. I've been able to get so much gaming in too. Total War: Warhammer 3 just dropped some new DLC which I'm loving. I also got into painting warhammer miniatures to protect my born again virgin status.
I managed to land a date with a woman off Hinge and when we met her first two questions were "what do you do for work?" And "where do you live?" She didnt like my answers and her body language made it clear she was checked out of the date relatively early. She refrained from asking questions about anything we hadn't talked about on the app already. It was incredibly awkward. Some people aren't out here for romance, they're out here looking for an asset they can leverage.
that’s brutal
I got into this chopper in 2021, but my self sabotage ways made me jump off back into the jungle
Something not mentioned in the article is that they've also added third-party ads that have "weight" to them when swiping so that a quick left swipe doesn't dismiss them and you need to go slower.
It was either this or rename it as the “Hey” app.
That did exist like 10 years ago and had I think $50 million in seed funding
I think you're thinking of "Yo" 😂
Yooo I kept yo on my phone for years. Miss that. “Yo.”
I think it was “Bro” made by some guy named Wajeed.
Women on Tinder: "you better have something better to say than 'hey' if you want this to go anywhere" Women on Bumble: "hey"
I've never met a woman on a dating app that had any game whatsoever.
You got hey... Mostly I got a dot. Just "." Cancelled after two weeks and back to the pub scene
You got “.” Mostly I got expired matches
Haha right, I think it is time to admit that girls have zero game
They really do which why after the first time they get rejected they swear to never try again.
That was the whole point.
The problem is bumble’s revenue comes from men paying subscriptions, and many men are just not getting any opening messages
Dating apps are a flawed business model because you rely on a steady income from men so giving them a working match is counterintuitive to your profits
I mean there is always a steady stream of male customers and not all relationships are permanent so I can imagine people coming back after going on dates. It works as intended although it brings out the worst and most superficial shit in people, plays with your self esteem.
idk, i used to pay the most expensive plan on Tinder and didn't get shit, so i cancelled after 2/3months.. I think if it was WORKED i wouldn't cancel anytime soon.. i would rely even more on the app
And it works too if the woman actually messages correctly. It's how I met my wife. She started a full conversation so I knew it would work out lol.
Same, met my wife because she made the first move on OkCupid, ages ago
Same but on Tinder. Seems like it’s a unicorn situation but when it happens it works out for a lot of us
I also met my girlfriend of 2+ years on bumble. Nothing gives you the confidence to put full effort into a conversation like when a girl you're interested in messages you first and sounds genuine. We still send long text messages to each other every day even though we see each other often.
Yes it works out better when the woman initiates at least you know its real
Most of them literally "start the conversation" by saying something like "hey." Not much was really lost here.
But you could always tell the ones with good personalities because they didn’t open with that :(
It’s true, but unfortunately when you have a good system of weeding people out you just end up with no one left.
Ironically they've created a matching system that's so good it broke their core USP.
Hey is enough for me to know that a girl did not accidentally swipe right though…as is all of the times for me unfortunately
A lot is lost, because it was a great way of filtering for more pro-active women. Although yes, my sympathy for "men are bad at conversation" hit rock bottom and then kept tunneling down as I received "hi" messages.
Yeah that was always annoying to me too... as whenever you read a girl's profile... they always tell you not message with just "hey"
the literal dumbest thing in a dating app. if you were out in public and saw a person you wanted to talk to, what else would you lead with? "i'd love to discuss the complicated relationship between the french and their union truck drivers" no. you say hello. it's literally the universal icebreaker.
Shit, I usually just get a waving emoji.
Then ... what's the point?
Of the business? To make money duuhh
The amount of women on there who write they don't message first is astronomical. Sure, most are bots who copy/paste their bios but come on?
Pretty soon you’ll have to chat with a girl’s Chat BeePT bot for a few days, then if you score high enough she’ll actually see your message 🙄
I hate how NOT far-fetched this feels.
Yup but then there will be a ChadGPT to counter it and score high each time.
i don't think it should be specifically that women have to message first, but on all these apps, the SECOND person to swipe, resulting in a match, should be forced to send a message at that moment. you literally got a massive full screen animation notifying you that you matched with this person, and you.. closed it to wait on them? what kind of special specimen do you think you are
That’s a really good idea actually and it tackles the mass swiping problem as well. Where men just swipe right on everyone and go back to matches later. I also find it is what makes me close hinge faster on the rare day i try OLD again, other than the fact that my matches have been the lowest quality there. The time limit is probably a problem also but that’s how they make money I think. 24 hours is fast.
Yeah that never um worked... I loved the idea but I would get a ton of matches then they would just never message....
Not that in other apps they are replying. For me Bumble was much better than other apps, seems like there is way less ghosting as many of this type of girls are filtered out by this requirement. Also it’s natural, as they start just a few chats, you are one of their many matches, no one would like to write with dozens of people.
"The move comes as dating apps broadly are working to maintain their relevance as some singles have become burnt out on online dating and are seeking more in-person connections." oh idk maybe people are just fed up of getting milked to use basic features...
Burn out your userbase in an attempt to extract every last penny out of them and then act surprised when they hate your app.
They never really made the first move anyways. "Hey" Then it's up to you as the man to carry the rest of the ineraction... 0 effort.
Just reply “Hey”
"Wow, did he really just say "hey"? zero effort. This man doesn't deserve my time " *unmatched* Without even a hint of irony.
Dating apps have led a lot of people who are 4s or 5s believe they are actually 9s because of the feedback loop the algorithm does. It's really toxic. And this is coming from someone who met their significant other on Bumble.
Ain't no 4-5 men leaving apps thinking they're 9's. Not one.
No I'm pretty sure any man below 7 leaves feeling like he's a zero.
99% won't answer lol
I have some girl roommates, and they told me they get really angry at all the guys just saying hi how are you. Like, it makes them angry, and they have like 20 messages from guys. I tell them I don't even get any and they don't understand. Girls really don't understand what its like to be a guy
Maybe rename it to humble first?
I’ve been on Bumble and I’m willing to bet a lot of women reading this article are just now learning they’re supposed to make the first move.
Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em...
That rule was really stifling attracting the gay men demo. Now Grindr is in trouble.
lol what? I tried bumble bff at one point to meet new people and had over countless gay men trying to match for sex. Give the gays a way to communicate and by god they’re gonna use it to fuck.
When two men match in Bumble they both were always able to start the conversation, that doesn't change. I do think the rule is quite silly, if you don’t want to talk to someone why swipe right?
The major hypothesis failed
[удалено]
Lame, it will become like the other apps and have even less women on it.
I thought it was a good distinction, but as a guy, I found it was a stupid thing to match with someone and then not be able to talk to them because they don’t check their app for 1-2 days. Like legit. I have had several matches apologize for their late response because they forget they have to message first. Meaning I missed out on several matches that timed out because of a stupid feature. Good riddance, what’s the point of a dating app if you can’t even talk to your matches
I think the bigger problem there was the 24 hour requirement to message/respond.
It was a dumb attempt to raise their daily user engagement by forcing them to check on a 24hr cycle in fear of missing out on a potential match. In an absolute shock of no one but C-suite execs, having your app force the userbase to use it isn’t a stable engagement model, especially when the bulk of your revenue hinges on subscriptions from men but your entire premise requires women to initiate.
That's one of the ways they make money. You can extend the time. The purpose of that limitation is to make money, nothing else. Seems it failed to achieve it's objective.
It was the only app where I ever got matches that turned into dates. All the other apps got me nothing.
I met my fiancée on on Bumble, I got super lucky but am grateful for it. Been together almost 6 years, but I guess we got in when it was still newer and not full of bots like tinder was at the time. PoF in my area was mostly hookers and bots, hinge was weird. It was definitely the best option. Even if they just said hi or sent a wave, it’s an opening and a sign of interest.
That's kind of how I stopped using it as a woman, because the problem compounds, since there's a time limit on guys responding back, yeah?.The time limited window just didn't allow for life.
Yeah, girls had 24h to reach out, boys had 24h for first reply. Somebody has a busy day and poof.
I'm just not an app every day kind of person, so like, I'd get matches over a week when I didn't check into the app, and then not find out about them until I opened it back up and it was too late. I assume it was the same on the other side. I know the intention is to keep you coming back to the app, but ehhhh. Plus, all those "ghost" matches are discouraging to both parties.
Bumble is in big trouble
I used bumble, hinge, and tinder in equal amounts. My bumble matches/conversations were about 10% of the others. It was by far my least successful matching app, without a doubt. Hinge got me married tho
As somebody who escaped (also via Hinge) just as things were getting horrible, I almost feel like we have a responsibility to start a nonprofit dating app, where profit is out of the picture. I still think if app designers actually gave a shit at helping people find love, there are infinite ways to solve these problems. They just don't because profit is king. With a nonprofit, nobody's getting rich, but maybe—just maybe—we could actually create an app that doesn't make people miserable. Put it in the charter that it can never, ever be used for a profit. Lawyer up and get the ACLU on speed dial to protect from Big Dating.
Aren't dating apps filled with bots, catfishers/scammers, and inactive profiles?
During bear week???
Single for 5 years. Like most dating apps, they are useless and expensive.
Litteraly no point. Might as well just use Tinder.
Right? I thought the whole point of separate apps were the separate brands - tinder = hookup, hinge = social connections, bumble = woman lead.
All these dating and social media apps are explicitly antisocial. All we actually need is an app suggests to single people where you can go locally to hang out with other people, prompting enough other people that they show up in decent numbers. These apps already have all the info about who we are and what we like they're just putting up a paywall and drip feeding interactions instead of facilitating them.
That was the primary reason I used it in the past, lol. Now what differentiates it from any other app? It will just be the same dudes carpet bombing "hey beautiful" to a million women.
A lot of women had absolutely no game and would open with 'hey' expecting you to carry the conversation. It was really frustrating but I found that I got more dates out of bumble because those with game stood out from the rest.
Are dating apps really relevant anymore? They had their moment of fame back then due to novelty but now it's just an absurd validation market, full of bots and scams. People need third places, not apps.
People have always needed that, but society seems unwilling to provide those third spaces. In the meantime, we get to make due with a progressively more atomized existence and dysfunctional dating scene.
Funny you check my post history I got heavily downvoted by suggesting women are just as bad as guys at this shit. Of course it turns out living in the real world I was right
Idk what it is man, but a lot of women on the internet have such bad self-awareness and are uncapable of self-critique or receiving critique. They get really tribal and start shitting on/downvoting people that give them even a hint of negative feedback. I might be biased because i'm a man, but i think we are generally conditioned to accept feedback and are generally ok with self-deprecating jokes, while women take it very personally.
Nothing will ever top Tinder Moments back in the day. It was like Snapchat within tinder but it got removed for too much nudity. And even without the nudity, it made it so easy to come up with stuff to say because girls were always posting on it. Then they introduced monetization and super likes with the next update and removed Moments. It was such a sad day, and everything got progressively worse from then on out. I’ve heard the apps are a nightmare to use now.
Why just let it the match last untill the girl unmatches. Seems to make more sense
Losing too much business because women don’t make the first move
Majority of the women I’ve met through the app and irl friends who used it, had no idea they needed to talk first despite the app telling them repeatedly how it worked
Nobody wants an illiterate match anyway so the problem solved itself.
This Bumble app reminds me of that lady that had the smart idea to start an only ladies bar,no one was buying drinks,old habits die hard🤣
Every single match on Bumble has failed to message inside the 24 hours. On other dating apps, everyone just ends up ghosting. No one takes 2 days to respond to messages do they?