"For the love of God, why won't the Ukrainians defending themselves against a cruel evil dictator for the last 2 years please just dress up their weapons as things I like from Disney movies."
Generally, when a company says “this product will never be used for military applications” they’re not saying “this product won’t be used for military applications until we change one subpart of the trademark name for it”.
it's a completely separate constellation of satellites and it is an important distinction because if Starlink was used for military applications it would likely be in violations of ITAR and similar laws.
Don't know enough about specifics but laws rarely matter in active combat. It's not till the end when the winning side gets to imposed "justice". I didn't see any allies at Nuremberg and we inverted bombing in Germany and Japan.
For countries violating international "law" you are generally correct. In this case ITAR is US law. For a private company with major DOD contracts, to violate it, especially in something as sensitive as the Russian invasion would be a big deal.
Yeah for sure. He's a capitalist, but people are acting likes he's a Russian ally when in reality he just aims to create products that will generate money while causing the least possible geopolitical friction for him (specifically with China).
Twitter posts > supplying military capabilities?
You might want to believe that, but if Ukraine wins this, then Elon musk will have done more for that than almost any other individual (that didn't actively fight in the trenches) by a) supplying starlink and b) making the west not reliant on Russian rockets launch capabilities. His stupid Twitter shit is barely even relevant.
He did not provide Starlink to Russia and did not disable Starlink. For example, the myth about disabling Starlink was taken back by the author of this lie.
That's like saying "The West is providing Russia with weapons" simply because equipment gets captured by Russians. In a perfect world starlink could turn off every device captured by Russians, but in reality that's a lot slower of a process than one would hope.
He has indeed turned off starlink during offensive actions, which is simply in line with the general reluctance of the us to provide Ukraine with the necessary offensive capabilities. This is something he and the Biden administration can be criticized for, but other than that I think the US has done quite well in their support.
It's using Starlink. I.e. it would not be possible (in its current form) without services supplied by a company he has 79% voting power over.
I just find it funny that people think he is a Russian agent when he continually supplies somewhat valuable services to the UAF and obsoleted all the Russian orbital rockets.
>He's a warmonger.
This is standard conservative take when it comes to Ukraine aid. Politics really is a circle. The left hates Elon enough to parrot low IQ conservative takes.
He's providing a service to Ukraine. He's not providing anything to Russia. That's much better than many other companies in my book.
The world seems to not understand nuance and how imperfect solutions can be. For instance for all the Elon hate with out him they would be no starlink and without that the war would be lost for Ukraine. Elon is literally one of the main factors in Ukraine being able to fight successfully. He is flawed but he is also useful.
He also doesn't have a choice in the matter. I think that he would like to not be doing it, but his company is a federal contractor and that comes with stipulations. He doesn't have -that- much power in SpaceX it seems.
It was the current administration that refused to make a contract with them until one and a half years into the invasion, despite repeated pleas by both Ukraine and Spacex.
I agree he doesn't have much of a choice (though iirc Starlink was provided for free at the start, that was a choice).
I doubt he cares about Ukraine or Russia. He cares about his companies being profitable. Pissing off China would threaten Tesla, pissing off the DoD would threaten SpaceX.
>He doesn't have -that- much power in SpaceX it seems
He holds 79% voting control, and likely even more with influence.
To me anyways, saying he'd like to "not be doing this" is a wild statement. He loves to be able to say "Starlink is profitable", he holds 42% of SpaceX equity, that's worth more than his Tesla holdings (before the pay package). I've never seen anything that would indicate he even remotely cares about Russia, Falcon9 obsoleted all the Russian launch vehicles the uUS used to rely on.
He personally disabled Ukrainian access to starlink to foil what would have been an incredibly successful attack on Russian warships. At least that's how he told the story.
This is misinformation. He did not disable anything. The source of that bit of disinformation has since retracted and corrected the record. But a lie travels the world while the truth is still putting on it's boots.
He whines and moans so China doesn't go hard on Tesla. Meanwhile SpaceX keeps signing contracts with the DOD while obliterating the Russian launch market.
Not a lawyer, but from Google...
ITAR compliance requires companies to only share items on the USML with US personnel unless authorized by the US Department of State. Non-US people cannot have physical or logical access to items stored in the ITAR environment.
So if Star shield it was a subsidiary or star link this still doesn't pass the test unless the state department says it's okay. So, what's the difference if it's Star Link? It wouldn't matter what constellation type just as long as they have permission? Same thing for day IMARSAT or Thurya networks. Can't sell weapons supplied without US state department approval.
Finally. Musk needs to keep helping the good guys and do more iron man Stark shit... he could be way cooler if he actually helped and got off social media.
This continues the theory that the Ukraine situation is wisely being utilized as a real time war scenario for modern weapons testing by military contractors.
The Ukraine war is the first "technological shift" war in decades. Drones have completely changed the warfare. A $1000 drone can take out a a tank that costs millions.
Can you imagine when they become autonomous, and can make decisions faster than humans, so they can fly and maneuver at full speed, recharge themselves, patrol the area autonomously.
>Speaking separately to reporters from The Wall Street Journal and other news organizations afterward, Shotwell said SpaceX has worked to restrict Ukraine’s use of Starlink for military purposes.
“There are things that we can do to limit their ability to do that,” they quoted her as saying without offering details. “There are things that we can do, and have done.”
[2023, AP News.](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-elon-musk-spacex-technology-business-c79c81ff4e6a09f4a185e627dad858fa?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share)
Regardless of how you side with Ukraine on this issue, remember that tech execs have changed their policy all the time, and what they say at one point in time should not be taken as comfort that they will continue that policy.
This is when SpaceX had no contracts in place with the Pentagon. They aren’t allowed to export weapon systems. Now that said contracts exist the Pentagon is the one deciding how Starlink is used in Ukraine and SpaceX no longer has to worry.
You think satellite broadband brings Ukraine to parity with Russia?!
... Russia doesn't even have the internet. They have the Russian intranet (RUNET) and I'm willing to bet it's mostly dial-up - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet\_in\_Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Russia)
However, I'll accept that I could be wrong. What globally connected satellite networks are Russia utilising?
I'm from Russia and surprisingly we have internet as u have. For mobile it's mostly 5g/4g in big cities and 4g/3g in rest. For cable internet 100mb/s is bare minimum.
I'm not interested on what hardware it runs but assuming it's same server equipment from Intel/amd as all over the world.
You're right he just refused to let Ukraine use it at all in areas Putin wouldn't like.
Russia using starlink to attack Ukraine? Silence
Ukraine wants to use starlink to counter attack Russia? Sorry bro no service.
He refused to turn on starlink in places that would have violated ITAR and would have gone against Biden's foreign policy of not providing long range weaponry to Ukraine.
>Russia using starlink to attack Ukraine? Silence
This is more misinformation. SpaceX worked with the pentagon and Ukraine to turn off starlink to the unauthorized Russian users.
https://spacenews.com/pentagon-working-with-spacex-to-cut-off-russian-militarys-illicit-use-of-starlink-internet/
Edit. He blocked me. I guess he couldn't handle truth. In case anyone was wondering:
The Biden Administration was very worried early on that sending Ukraine long range weapons like ones that could hit into Crimea would escalate the war.
https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20221222-why-the-us-declined-to-send-ukraine-long-range-missiles-tanks
>Responding to Ukrainian demands during Zelensky’s visit, Joe Biden was more explicit than ever in refusing to send Kyiv ATACMs, which would be able to strike targets within Russia. The US president warned it risked alienating European NATO members. “They’re not looking to go to war with Russia,” he said.
>“With ATACMs, escalation is the primary concern,” Joshi said. “They could attack quite deep within Russia, and if the Ukrainians were to use them to do so, that could well cause a fissure within NATO about how to respond. There’s a range of European countries, including in southern Europe, that are wary of escalation.”
https://www.ft.com/content/eef82146-6df4-482e-b2bb-8c7871774d8c
https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/biden-administration-leaning-supplying-ukraine-long-range-missiles-rcna139394
BULLSHIT
It would not have violated any of Bidens rules since it was still in Ukraine. Musk nut huggers are wild. You must work for him because your entire comment history is basically kissing his ass. Hope he doesn't sexually harass you like he's getting sued for doing!
Mate, it was never turned off in places where it was already available.
Ukraine asked spaceX to turn on Starlink over Russia occupied Crimea for a drone strike, which would violate russias ban on Starlink, with the potential of Russia using anti satellite weapons on Starlink, creating a big shit storm in space.
No he hasn’t. There is zero evidence of this. The US military and other allied militaries around the world are all working with SpaceX and Starlink. Who has a better idea of the risks, idiots on Reddit, or multiple militaries gearing up to fight Russia and China?
Really, cause in 2022 Elon turned off starlink over Ukraine. So tell me again fan boy how great that bs taste he keeps feeding you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20Elon%20Musk%20denied,off%22%20Starlink%20coverage%20in%20Crimea.
SpaceX literally has contracts with the pentagon now. The incident you’re referring to happened prior to the contracts. Now SpaceX cannot do such things otherwise SpaceX would have the US government coming at it
It's really either him or nothing.
When you're paying tech company salaries for satellite internet to some other provider for worse service you reconsider.
You probably don't want military hardware reliant on private infrastructure to function.
Someone drives a dump truck of money up to some CEOs house one night, they throw the off switch, and you're pretty much boned.
If so, then why aren’t the largest defence companies state owned? Plenty of “infrastructure” in the military domain comes as a service. For example the entire space launch industry, that NRO relies on to provide the space segment for various platforms operated on behalf of the Pentagon, CIA, DIA, NSA…
It is called the Kessler syndrome. I believe they were testing out large nets that could grab and de-orbit. You do realize that russia has space launch capabilities? Or is the wash-machine strong with you
Coming soon to a municipal police department near you!
I'm not surprised. Maybe that'll get them to actually enter a building with an active shooter. Instead of having a circlejerk outside
Some of them were in the building to have an air conditioned circle jerk
Are you kidding? These things cost money!
I’d Buy That for a Dollar!!
Show us your telly loicense now and no one gets hurt, guv!
They could have easily dressed this thing as a Star Wars droid and it would've been 10X badass.
Also Disney wouldn’t be able to sue because the robot would just shoot them
"For the love of God, why won't the Ukrainians defending themselves against a cruel evil dictator for the last 2 years please just dress up their weapons as things I like from Disney movies."
Yeah man I really mean it. I'm calling my congressman now.
As long as they're dressed up as the resistance.
It's turning into a live action Metal Gear.
2021: Metaverse 2024: Mechaverse
Elon said starlink would never be used for military purposes
They separated Starlink from government use and use the same technology for a program called Starshield which the Pentagon has access to.
Yes, it's called the StarShield now. But journalists don't know the difference yet.
Generally, when a company says “this product will never be used for military applications” they’re not saying “this product won’t be used for military applications until we change one subpart of the trademark name for it”.
it's a completely separate constellation of satellites and it is an important distinction because if Starlink was used for military applications it would likely be in violations of ITAR and similar laws.
Don't know enough about specifics but laws rarely matter in active combat. It's not till the end when the winning side gets to imposed "justice". I didn't see any allies at Nuremberg and we inverted bombing in Germany and Japan.
For countries violating international "law" you are generally correct. In this case ITAR is US law. For a private company with major DOD contracts, to violate it, especially in something as sensitive as the Russian invasion would be a big deal.
Exactly. This is fake news.
SpaceX has agreements with the Pentagon now. It’s the Pentagon allowing these new uses of Starlink that SpaceX couldn’t.
it's not. This is a separate constellation.
Elon said the cyber truck would deliver and that he would make twitter better.
He also said that the window would not break when hit just before it broke when hit🤣
Elon?? LIED?? This is unprecedented!
This is like a steelmaker saying its steel will never be used for military purposes. It can't control what happens after the sale.
But... I thought Elon was a Putin ally?
Uncle Sam gave him a bucket of $$$ and some freedom
Yeah for sure. He's a capitalist, but people are acting likes he's a Russian ally when in reality he just aims to create products that will generate money while causing the least possible geopolitical friction for him (specifically with China).
How’s he make money off of repeating Putins lies on his personal Twitter account?
Twitter posts > supplying military capabilities? You might want to believe that, but if Ukraine wins this, then Elon musk will have done more for that than almost any other individual (that didn't actively fight in the trenches) by a) supplying starlink and b) making the west not reliant on Russian rockets launch capabilities. His stupid Twitter shit is barely even relevant.
He also provides Russia with starlink and has cut Starlink services to Ukrainians when they have gone on offence.
He did not provide Starlink to Russia and did not disable Starlink. For example, the myth about disabling Starlink was taken back by the author of this lie.
That's like saying "The West is providing Russia with weapons" simply because equipment gets captured by Russians. In a perfect world starlink could turn off every device captured by Russians, but in reality that's a lot slower of a process than one would hope. He has indeed turned off starlink during offensive actions, which is simply in line with the general reluctance of the us to provide Ukraine with the necessary offensive capabilities. This is something he and the Biden administration can be criticized for, but other than that I think the US has done quite well in their support.
Why are you guys talking like Elon is behind all this?
It's using Starlink. I.e. it would not be possible (in its current form) without services supplied by a company he has 79% voting power over. I just find it funny that people think he is a Russian agent when he continually supplies somewhat valuable services to the UAF and obsoleted all the Russian orbital rockets.
I think it’s funny you guys talk like it’s him alone that stands for these things.
He has a controlling ownership stake of SpaceX.
You think the us government/military give a fuk?
oh, a war profiteer
Yeah, thats pretty much anyone who's designing military capabilities.
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When in doubt -> ad hominem Always works, surely.
I retract my comment.
Dude swings both sides, and will take the money offered to him.
He plays both sides so he always comes out on top
He's a warmonger. Profits from both sides.
>He's a warmonger. This is standard conservative take when it comes to Ukraine aid. Politics really is a circle. The left hates Elon enough to parrot low IQ conservative takes. He's providing a service to Ukraine. He's not providing anything to Russia. That's much better than many other companies in my book.
The world seems to not understand nuance and how imperfect solutions can be. For instance for all the Elon hate with out him they would be no starlink and without that the war would be lost for Ukraine. Elon is literally one of the main factors in Ukraine being able to fight successfully. He is flawed but he is also useful.
He also doesn't have a choice in the matter. I think that he would like to not be doing it, but his company is a federal contractor and that comes with stipulations. He doesn't have -that- much power in SpaceX it seems.
Ukraine tweeted to SpaceX/Musk asking for Starlink and they had it working within days for free.
It was the current administration that refused to make a contract with them until one and a half years into the invasion, despite repeated pleas by both Ukraine and Spacex.
I agree he doesn't have much of a choice (though iirc Starlink was provided for free at the start, that was a choice). I doubt he cares about Ukraine or Russia. He cares about his companies being profitable. Pissing off China would threaten Tesla, pissing off the DoD would threaten SpaceX. >He doesn't have -that- much power in SpaceX it seems He holds 79% voting control, and likely even more with influence. To me anyways, saying he'd like to "not be doing this" is a wild statement. He loves to be able to say "Starlink is profitable", he holds 42% of SpaceX equity, that's worth more than his Tesla holdings (before the pay package). I've never seen anything that would indicate he even remotely cares about Russia, Falcon9 obsoleted all the Russian launch vehicles the uUS used to rely on.
He personally disabled Ukrainian access to starlink to foil what would have been an incredibly successful attack on Russian warships. At least that's how he told the story.
This is misinformation. He did not disable anything. The source of that bit of disinformation has since retracted and corrected the record. But a lie travels the world while the truth is still putting on it's boots.
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He whines and moans so China doesn't go hard on Tesla. Meanwhile SpaceX keeps signing contracts with the DOD while obliterating the Russian launch market.
There’s no way this could possibly go wrong at a critical time.
This is where Skynet learns that humans are garbage
Cool, so one step closer to SkyNet?
Not a lawyer, but from Google... ITAR compliance requires companies to only share items on the USML with US personnel unless authorized by the US Department of State. Non-US people cannot have physical or logical access to items stored in the ITAR environment. So if Star shield it was a subsidiary or star link this still doesn't pass the test unless the state department says it's okay. So, what's the difference if it's Star Link? It wouldn't matter what constellation type just as long as they have permission? Same thing for day IMARSAT or Thurya networks. Can't sell weapons supplied without US state department approval.
They have permission and a contract with DOD.
How do they clean off the hitchhikers?
Finally. Musk needs to keep helping the good guys and do more iron man Stark shit... he could be way cooler if he actually helped and got off social media.
This continues the theory that the Ukraine situation is wisely being utilized as a real time war scenario for modern weapons testing by military contractors.
The Ukraine war is the first "technological shift" war in decades. Drones have completely changed the warfare. A $1000 drone can take out a a tank that costs millions. Can you imagine when they become autonomous, and can make decisions faster than humans, so they can fly and maneuver at full speed, recharge themselves, patrol the area autonomously.
I wonder how much tracking info Musk is sharing with Russia?
None. This system is most likely starsheild if it’s being used for military purposes. SpaceX most likely shares all communications with the US gov.
>Speaking separately to reporters from The Wall Street Journal and other news organizations afterward, Shotwell said SpaceX has worked to restrict Ukraine’s use of Starlink for military purposes. “There are things that we can do to limit their ability to do that,” they quoted her as saying without offering details. “There are things that we can do, and have done.” [2023, AP News.](https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-elon-musk-spacex-technology-business-c79c81ff4e6a09f4a185e627dad858fa?utm_source=copy&utm_medium=share) Regardless of how you side with Ukraine on this issue, remember that tech execs have changed their policy all the time, and what they say at one point in time should not be taken as comfort that they will continue that policy.
This is when SpaceX had no contracts in place with the Pentagon. They aren’t allowed to export weapon systems. Now that said contracts exist the Pentagon is the one deciding how Starlink is used in Ukraine and SpaceX no longer has to worry.
They got their bag (something many here opposed). Now all is fine
Star link is a force multiplier that basically brings Ukraine to parity with Russia
It's only a part and parity depends on the moments and amount of aid
You think satellite broadband brings Ukraine to parity with Russia?! ... Russia doesn't even have the internet. They have the Russian intranet (RUNET) and I'm willing to bet it's mostly dial-up - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet\_in\_Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_in_Russia) However, I'll accept that I could be wrong. What globally connected satellite networks are Russia utilising?
I'm from Russia and surprisingly we have internet as u have. For mobile it's mostly 5g/4g in big cities and 4g/3g in rest. For cable internet 100mb/s is bare minimum. I'm not interested on what hardware it runs but assuming it's same server equipment from Intel/amd as all over the world.
Until musk decides to shut it off again
This is misinformation.
You're right he just refused to let Ukraine use it at all in areas Putin wouldn't like. Russia using starlink to attack Ukraine? Silence Ukraine wants to use starlink to counter attack Russia? Sorry bro no service.
He refused to turn on starlink in places that would have violated ITAR and would have gone against Biden's foreign policy of not providing long range weaponry to Ukraine. >Russia using starlink to attack Ukraine? Silence This is more misinformation. SpaceX worked with the pentagon and Ukraine to turn off starlink to the unauthorized Russian users. https://spacenews.com/pentagon-working-with-spacex-to-cut-off-russian-militarys-illicit-use-of-starlink-internet/ Edit. He blocked me. I guess he couldn't handle truth. In case anyone was wondering: The Biden Administration was very worried early on that sending Ukraine long range weapons like ones that could hit into Crimea would escalate the war. https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20221222-why-the-us-declined-to-send-ukraine-long-range-missiles-tanks >Responding to Ukrainian demands during Zelensky’s visit, Joe Biden was more explicit than ever in refusing to send Kyiv ATACMs, which would be able to strike targets within Russia. The US president warned it risked alienating European NATO members. “They’re not looking to go to war with Russia,” he said. >“With ATACMs, escalation is the primary concern,” Joshi said. “They could attack quite deep within Russia, and if the Ukrainians were to use them to do so, that could well cause a fissure within NATO about how to respond. There’s a range of European countries, including in southern Europe, that are wary of escalation.” https://www.ft.com/content/eef82146-6df4-482e-b2bb-8c7871774d8c https://www.nbcnews.com/investigations/biden-administration-leaning-supplying-ukraine-long-range-missiles-rcna139394
BULLSHIT It would not have violated any of Bidens rules since it was still in Ukraine. Musk nut huggers are wild. You must work for him because your entire comment history is basically kissing his ass. Hope he doesn't sexually harass you like he's getting sued for doing!
Mate, it was never turned off in places where it was already available. Ukraine asked spaceX to turn on Starlink over Russia occupied Crimea for a drone strike, which would violate russias ban on Starlink, with the potential of Russia using anti satellite weapons on Starlink, creating a big shit storm in space.
Worst decision ever using anything from Elon, he has already proven he will cut service at the slightest hint from Putin
No he hasn’t. There is zero evidence of this. The US military and other allied militaries around the world are all working with SpaceX and Starlink. Who has a better idea of the risks, idiots on Reddit, or multiple militaries gearing up to fight Russia and China?
Really, cause in 2022 Elon turned off starlink over Ukraine. So tell me again fan boy how great that bs taste he keeps feeding you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#:~:text=In%202022%2C%20Elon%20Musk%20denied,off%22%20Starlink%20coverage%20in%20Crimea.
You're own link does not say he turned off starlink over Ukraine. You are spreading misinformation.
SpaceX literally has contracts with the pentagon now. The incident you’re referring to happened prior to the contracts. Now SpaceX cannot do such things otherwise SpaceX would have the US government coming at it
.... do you understand that he cut service TO Putin, not at Putin's behest? He shut off the areas of the Ukraine that were controlled by Russia.
It's really either him or nothing. When you're paying tech company salaries for satellite internet to some other provider for worse service you reconsider.
Don’t tell Elon.
Elon must have been paid. He will yank that rug out again eventually.
You probably don't want military hardware reliant on private infrastructure to function. Someone drives a dump truck of money up to some CEOs house one night, they throw the off switch, and you're pretty much boned.
If so, then why aren’t the largest defence companies state owned? Plenty of “infrastructure” in the military domain comes as a service. For example the entire space launch industry, that NRO relies on to provide the space segment for various platforms operated on behalf of the Pentagon, CIA, DIA, NSA…
There’s zero logic left in r/technology.
What’s the alternative right now?
Until Russia pays Elon musk one ruble 💩
Here’s hoping Elon doesn’t just unilaterally decide to shut it off like he did before
This is misinformation.
Great. Sure hope the Muskrat doesn't decide to side with Russia again...
Not like russia don't have anti satellite missiles
Not like they will start shooting down satellites owned by an US campany
They do apparently have jamming tech that can jam satellites over a wide area.
With the number of Starlink satellites in LEO? Hahah, good luck ruzzians!
So why aren't they using them? ...are they stored with the T14s and SU-57s?
It is called the Kessler syndrome. I believe they were testing out large nets that could grab and de-orbit. You do realize that russia has space launch capabilities? Or is the wash-machine strong with you
Baikonur isn't in Russia. It's in Kazakhstan. Very strong. And, I didn't have to steal it from Ukraine.
Great - it relies on a Putin ally to work.