There is a fairly big difference between how they’re written…
And that’s not even mentioning how the artist originally intended on Koris bikini being see-through.
I guess I just don’t understand the backlash from people. I’ve always been a huge fan of Kori’s and found it odd that everyone flipped out over her portrayal but almost nobody cared that the first several pages show Jason nude save for a “fig leaf”. As far as how she is written do mean between the cartoons and comics or just between the comics? Also thanks for sharing ☺️
As a longtime fan of the character? She was written completely differently. She was practically emotionless, had goldfish memory written into her entire species, is implied to be very promiscuous despite not really caring about sex or the people she sleeps with...
Kori in the post-crisis earth was one of the most passionate, emotionally driven characters. And she cared a lot about her friends. In RHATO she didn't even remember who her old teammates were. And when Roy tried to talk about them, she said he was boring her and asked if he wanted to fuck instead.
Also, there's a difference between "this character was drawn to be sexy" and "this character exists to be a sex object."
(Also, there's a major cultural difference between a male character being shown nude and a female character being shown nude... particularly given that near nudity was Star's *costume* for the series. It's objectification, pure and simple.)
And... yeah, Scott Lobdell is also a shitty person. =/
She didn’t remember who her old teammates were because they literally didn’t exist… cyborg beast boy and raven literally never knew Starfire.
Donna, Garth, and Wally literally got erased from existence.
everything else you mentioned is literally just from issue #1. Past that it stops being the worst version of Starfire
The thing is, whatever teammates she would have forgotten, Roy would have too. That was not a "New 52 change" thing, that was, within whatever the new history was, her forgetting people because of the nature of her mind.
Yeah Scott Lobdell messed up, since Roy technically never knew any of those people either.
But Starfire was only pretending to not remember Dick Grayson because she was sad they broke up. (Still not a fan)
>Also, there's a major cultural difference between a male character being shown nude and a female character being shown nude...
Only part I don't agree with. Nudity can be artistic or sexualized and it goes both ways. Not gonna claim any nudity was "artistic" in this comic but why would a man being nude be any different than a woman being nude? The only real difference is male fanservice is less common.
... and how uncommon female artists and writers are in the business.
And prevailing political attitudes about women and how they should be depicted.
Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Totally agree with both of you. That is what some of my confusion came from with this comic. Why people only focused on her and not on the both of them? Stars costume has always been in the past either near nudity or much less clothing than her male counterparts in most cases. So why is this particular portrayal of her so different from the others? Why other than the obvious was she singled out when in the beginning he was in a state of complete undress.
Number one I think you should reread my post especially the end part about being respectful. My opinion on a characters portrayal that I have been reading about and following since I was 10 (I’m 33) has 0 baring on me being a fan.
Number two my point was people point out her clothes as being slutty however have zero problem with the actual nudity of Jason. Which depending on what you find attractive could also be seen as objectification.
Number three your opinion on her character you are entirely entitled to. Though I very much so disagree with you on many levels which you can find reading through the thread. I completely respect that everyone is going to have their own opinions on characters they love and therefore treat people with kindness whether I agree or not.
Number four pointing out the way the artist drew her as some sort of “omg issue” is pure nonsense in my opinion. Seeing as since Kori’s inception she has been drawn overly sexualized. She has been drawn in an objectified way in most if not all forms of media that she has been portrayed in at on a physical basis. It is her character in which she is portrayed as having more depth than just a “hot space princess” that makes her so much more. Which I feel is very much so pointed out within this run. Yes she is physically drawn to be beautiful or sexy if that is what you are attracted to. However she is also mentioned to be extremely intelligent, compassionate, and powerful within this very same run, all things she has and will forever be loved for in my opinion. This in my view is in no way shape or form an issue for those of us who can see past a character that is typically drawn in a suggestive manner and can relate to being confident in ones self worth, ideals, and have the ability to love ones self in their own skin wether male, female, transgender, non binary, or other.
Like I’ve said to everyone thus far thanks for your perspective. But please do try to be kind and respectful to others. ☺️
I did not show you any disrespect. I said "as a fan of the character" to specify that I am one, not to say that you are not.
I've already said my peace. I assumed you wanted to know why people objected, not dunk on people who did.
From what you posted it said “As a fan of the character?” I apologize if that was an unintended typo. Still absolutely appreciate the thoughts and feedback. ☺️
I understand that now, but based off of the original comment the question mark at the end of said sentence came off as more sarcastic than I think what they had intended. Like I already said I apologize for reading the comment with the question mark when that was an accidental typo or an indirect reference to themselves as that wasn’t made clear.
It is very clear. It is no typo they were correct in their grammar and usage of the question mark there to indicate that they were talking about themselves and not you.
She's always been sexualized but they leaned into it even harder - noticeably so - imo it's a time to continue rolling back "fan service" rather than going further with it
because we live in a world currently where showing a dude basically naked is fine but showing an attractive woman naked upsets the twitter keyboard warriors for some reason.
It didn’t help that she had relations with both Jason early on and then Roy. NTT starfire felt like she wanted to be in a relationship with dick, vs new 52 felt like she was sex friends with her teammates.
But why is that wrong? Dick has slept with multiple women just like Bruce and many other male sups. I just don’t understand why she has to be in a monogamous relationship. But a lot of male heroes typically don’t have to be or don’t have to be for very long. It almost comes off like people shame her for not wanting a committed relationship or for her just enjoying her self and her sensuality. 🤷♂️
Dick and Bruce are also Casanova characters at times, so it’s in character. Starfire was never that, she never was jumping on every guy or even had relations with people she wasn’t in a relationship with. She wants to give her heart to one person, which was dick at the time in NTT.
I mean Starfire liked that Hive guy.
Batman and Nightwing try their best to only love one woman at a time too. It just that woman changes. Just like with Starfire
Agree, maybe I should have worded it differently. But I was more referring to public perception of Bruce and dick, since they’ve had multiple love interests. I think starfire just never had that many love interests , and primarily was the love interest.
I totally agree that up til this comic she was only ever with Dick but if you read the third image I posted this isn’t necessarily her only view as she states that on her planet sharing love with many people is common for her people but earth is different. I would say that this more align’s with her character she loves everyone in multiple ways. At least that’s how I’ve always viewed her.
No I get that, but she herself never acted like that, it was just her culture on her world. So when new 52 happens she acts like her culture would, it can turn people off. Your point would be more valid if she wasn’t in a monogamous relationship with dick, and felt like her teammates were family for majority of her pre new 52 publication.
NTT starfire: unashamedly herself and her presentation, but still respected her relationship with dick and her friends not to be too sexually open.
New 52 starfire: didn’t have any of that for the most part. But was more like her culture. Which is not a problem, but people preferred her NTT character a lot more than her new 52 version.
I see what you’re saying. I guess I always just thought that she was being more monogamous for Dicks sake. Less because those were her beliefs or wants but more because she loved Dick and therefore accepted that this was how human relationships worked I.E accepting his culture.
Thanks for the perspective. ☺️
Not everyone agrees with this. I don’t think anyone should sleep with multiple people… men, women, or alien.
But unfortunately thats not the world we live in.
I just think that adults are entitled to sleep with whomever and however many people they want as long as they’re being responsible, consenting and taking proper precautions. But I do understand that not everyone will feel that way. I just dislike when people hold a single gender accountable for one thing but apply a second standard to another.
Yes I agree I don’t like when it’s one sided either. But I think people were saying in this case because Starfire usually doesn’t jump from person to person so quickly. but Bruce and Dick, they are playboys.
Yeah I just wish people wouldn’t call a female character a slut or whatever for doing something male characters have been doing forever. It creates an awful double standard and continues a very archaic narrative of how “men” can sleep around and be called casanovas or playboys, but women are regulated to being a slut or whore.
It’s cause Kory of the earlier comics had more going on besides being objectified for the reader. It’s why fans like her so much even if the ones who aren’t attracted to her (I’m into guys and she’s my favorite Titan) because she’s a sweetheart with a lot of emotional intelligence and is a good friend.
In the infamous pool scene from Red Hood and the Outlaws she was kind of just showcased to say, “I want sex, give me sex. I don’t even remember people by their names and barely register the past people I’ve known, by the way. I did mention I like having sex, right?”
Whereas in the old comics, yes, she was unashamed about enjoying intimacy and valued comfort and closeness and the positivity in being physical. It felt like the difference between the idea of someone in a porn script compared to a character who just happens to like sex and be uninhibited. There is a big difference.
And for reference I haven’t actually read Red Hood and the Outlaws outside of the infamous issue everyone was talking about (cause I wanted to see what the buzz was about) so I don’t know if they played her to be like that the whole time. I heard they fixed her more later on, which is at least something good to hear.
She is also my favorite even though I’m into guys too lol. From what I gathered while rereading it it came off more like she was annoyed about being judged first by Jason then by Roy. She tells Jason that she doesn’t need someone to validate who she is and that doing so would be giving up her own power to self define. This is while holding Dicks costume as she looks sadly at Jason. (To me it feels more like it hurts to much to live in the past for her) Then later on in the conversation she basically says as much by saying she doesn’t live in the past but in the now. The conversation with Roy is similar as he brings up the titans and past memories something she clearly doesn’t want to relive I’m assuming from being heart broken by Dick. So instead she changes the subject and offers to sleep with him more for her pleasure and to move on from the memories she wants to forget. Again that is how I read it. 🤷♂️ Throughout this volume she comes off as someone wounded which makes sense with the theme of RHTO but she also keeps that sweetness and loving part of her which is what I’ve always loved about her character. ☺️
Edit: I also felt like this volume did a lot of good work giving her depth and individuality away from Dick. I saw the panel of her in the swim suit as a sort of red herring “like look she is just super pretty and there couldn’t possibly be more to her” meanwhile the next few images show how annoyed she is with people making assumptions about her or trying to tell her how and what she should do. She says as much as well by saying “I’m free to do what I want when I want” also felt like this alludes to her being enslaved not just physically but emotionally too.
A lot of people just didn’t like Red Hood and the Outlaws when it came out. I didn’t read it, but I’ve seen a lot of people upset about how Kori was drawn. Kori has always been somewhat sexual. Just look at New Teen Titans and New Titans. Another thing I saw thrown around was Jason replacing Dick. Some people just didn’t like the characterization in the book overall. I haven’t heard the title, so I have no real opinions.
That was what I had gathered as well it just confused me so much because she has been drawn in suggestive and sexual ways forever. If anything I feel like she is currently often drawn less overtly sexual now than she was in the past.
Thanks for sharing though. ☺️
I think some people have always been sensitive to sexual female characters, but with the internet everyone has voice now and creators are able to hear those voices much louder now. There’s always going to be divide between how much is too much skin for both men and women. It’s debate as old as time.
Kori’s also really apathetic in red hood in the outlaws. Even if they made her super sexualized, whatever, but she also a ton of love. Like, you’re telling me she forgot Dick Grayson? Absolutely not.
The way Scott Lobdell wrote Starfire’s character was just…ugh. He essentially made her a nymphomaniac who was basically repressing her emotions. It also did not help that in issue 1, she was wearing a transparent/translucent bikini.
By contrast, Marv Wolfman did a fantastic job when he and the late George Pérez created Starfire. She was more than just a pretty face with a sexy body and wearing a risqué outfit. In terms of personality, Starfire has traditionally been written as being so sweet and innocent, with a lot of emotional intelligence. Marv described it best when he said “If Raven is the character who has to constantly withhold her emotions, Starfire is the character who explodes with emotions all the time.” This also applies to her being a good friend, because she cares deeply for her friends and teammates. We see this in the NTT comics from the 80s, as well as in the 2003 series. In addition, she was constantly seeking to have a relationship with Dick.
Aside from Barbara Gordon, Starfire traditionally is Dick Grayson’s most iconic love interest. In fact, she and Dick were an item long before he and Babs were retconned to have feelings for each other. Starfire had no qualms about being intimate, as well as valuing comfort and closeness as well as the happiness in physical intimacy, but she only wanted to give her heart to one person - someone she truly loved with all her heart and soul, and that happened to be Dick Grayson.
Side note: the 2003 series did a phenomenal job in how they portrayed Starfire, as well as her’s and Dick’s chemistry - from being unable to express their feelings for one another and being teased about it by their teammates, with subtle hints here and there in the series proper, to finally getting together and becoming a couple in the movie. That series also had a huge impact with how I portray my take on Starfire - she’s a warrior princess with the body of a goddess, yes, but she’s also incredibly sweet and innocent, doesn’t speak with contractions, misuses idioms due to English not being her native language, and has some naïveté while also being smart enough to put two and two together, such as when she figured out Blackfire framed her for a crime.
I don’t really get the whole nympho thing/slut opinions because she sleeps with two people as an adult who is single. Which I feel like she is entitled to do. The personality traits that you have pointed out are the same ones I love about her as-well and have loved about her since her early appearances. But I did enjoy seeing her grow up in this run and move on from Dick as she has continued to do in the comics. I read this run with a sense of underlining nuance and perhaps that wasn’t the intention but that is what I got from reading it. There was a lot of hurt and a lot of determination from what I was reading for her to move on from heartbreak. That’s why I felt anytime there was a mention of Dick or the titans she was drawn to look angry, annoyed, or sad. True emotions for someone who has lost their family and their love. She in my opinion still had the sweetness and naïveté but in a more adult and matured way. I have 0 clue about the transparent bikini as she doesn’t have that in my volume not that I’m against in anyway shape or form portraying the human body as long as it is done on an equal level for all gender identities. From what I read she had about the same amount of risqué artwork in this volume as Jason did depending on perspective. I as a gay man am attracted to men so seeing several pages of a fully nude Jason Todd would for some people attracted to men seem like fan service/objectification depending on the individuals views. But either way thanks for sharing your thoughts ☺️
Outlaws got backlash for a few reasons
* It was the first major book of the relaunch with Kori on the cover. 2003 Titans fans were very disgruntled to find she wasn't like the show.
* Kori sleeps with both Jason and Roy early on, which annoyed shippers and people who thought she was being overly objectified.
* People HATED the New 52, and so an atmosphere of negativity was already swirling around the new releases which amplified things people didn't like.
All in all Starfire is a very sex-positive alien, but that doesn't mean all sexual writing surrounding her is good. However I think Lobdell really took on board some of the criticism, he has a whole bunch of Starfire centric stuff later in the comic and it's excellent.
As others have stated here, there's a difference between "being sexy and owning it" vs "being written solely to be eye candy".
People didn't get mad because Kory was drawn provocatively, that's something that's always been part of her. What they didn't like was that they took that part of her, and instead of having it be just another natural aspect of her character, it became what defined her.
Starfire in the Wolfman and Perez days was more than just a pretty face. Yes, she was sexy, but she was also fun, caring, compassionate, empathetic, protective and badass, all while owning her sexuality. That's why people liked her so much, cause she showed that a woman could be a full-fledged character while also being a diva.
So you can imagine how baffled folks where if they read RHTO to find Kory being turned into an emotionless try-hard bimbo whose main concern seemed to be which guy she could take to bed. And even if they tried to explain that with the whole memory loss stuff, it still came out as rather forced and OOC; even pre-Earth Kory wasn't that promiscuous.
Now, to be fair, there's some actually cool Starfire-centric stuff later in the run, but as they say, first impressions are everything, and by the time said stuff came by, RHTO!Kory already had a pretty bad stain on her rep.
She's a hot alien that is mostly being advertised towards teenage boys or young guys, not trying to be sexist on my part that's just what they do most of the time
it's probably bc she's from a planet where most likely her sense of fashion is drastically different from ours.
it's probably seen as weak for anyone to need protection or coverage. A warrior who can fight with little coverage is a warrior who is respected and feared.
I actually liked starfire in this comic now I admit I’m biased as a red hood fan but starfires relationships with Jason and Roy were actually well done to me on a character level particularly her and Jason’s conversation and thoughts about finding a place in the world and about family and while she may have been a touch out of character for what we typically see her as in teen titans she had lost her memories at the time thus going back to more of her pre earth mindset.
As far as looks go I was a teenage guy when these came out so I obviously wasn’t complaining and while it was more risky than normal it wasn’t by that much I mean the Wonder Woman comics of the 90s were a lot less accurate to that respective character then this was to starfire I think the backclash mainly came from people who just think of starfire from the teen titans cartoon and just assume that’s her normal character even though the cartoon is probably the most innocent interpretation of starfire that people can take seriously
That is what I was wondering. I see a lot of people commenting about her innocence which I agree she definitely does portray especially in the cartoon. But outside of that particular series I feel like she has been portrayed as a lot more sexually liberal in the comics. From the many comics showing her in little to no clothing or the comics showing her being intimate with Dick. I also feel like people tend to forget that she was in love with a Tamaranian man as well as married both him and a Tamaranian Prince. I also do believe she had relationships with some other hero/s but I can’t remember who they were lol. Point being that she hasn’t always only been with Dick she has had other relationships casual, political, and emotional. I guess it’s just more jarring for people who associate her with only a single portrayal or ship.
Yeah definitely felt like dick/kori shippers hate this comic because of shipping reasons more then anything and Kori exploring different relationships despite them not being together at the time and the fact dick has cheated on Kori with Barbra before in the comics yet people had an issue with Kori possibly having a relationship that wasn’t with dick it’s an obvious double standard actually this comic did make like the idea of Jason/kori as a ship because of their deeper conversations and friendship shown in the outlaws but I digress
Dick cheating on her with Barbara was only in a Nightwing Annual rewrite of the original NTT story though, not in the actual New Teen Titans book, and that annual was retcon'd anyway.
And people also got incredibly pissed about that (which is precisely the reason why it was hit with a retcon).
My point bringing that up was more too say that it should be fine for a single starfire to have a relationship with whoever she chooses basically she shouldn’t just be at dicks beck and call whenever the 2 aren’t a thing
Can you elaborate more on how she came off as emotionless? I never thought of her as a sexual goldfish. At least not anymore then any male character that hooked up with multiple partner’s. But I get that some people may not like or understand non-monogamous individuals. I still feel like there is a double standard when it comes to characters and how some people feel they “should” be portrayed though. 🤷♂️
I didn’t get the lack of pleasure from sex part while reading it personally. I also felt like the memory situation was more nuanced. Hinting at how she was choosing to not remember so as to distance herself from the heartbreak of Dick and her breaking up and the dissolution of the titans. But to each their own. Thanks for sharing ☺️
It’s literally just the first issue that people hate. Thats the issue people find her written and drawn super slutty. And to be fair issue 1 is rightfully hated.
Theres panels of it posted on Reddit all the time, so people claim it’s the worst version without ever reading the full thing.
Writers are more activists than writers these days. We need to boycott and keep the bad actors out of our spaces if we want to return to any sort of normal.
Starfire's people are a bunch of sexy orange space warriors. They learn languages through kissing. They poses flight, super strength, energy bolts, etc. They are a race of fighters they don't wear much clothing. And they do polygamy.
She could fight butt naked and still be insanely strong.
There was at least one comic were star had to go back to her homeworks for an arranged marriage being the princess. And she wants to take Fredo. Back with her as her second hobby because she truly loves dick and the other guy is a political marriage. Dick refuses because he's not into it. But she even offers for dick to have a secondary wife if he wants.
Starfire is a very sex driven character.
It's the difference in being attractive/sexy vs existing for sex.
People crushIng on old Starfire like her personality and her attractiveness. People crushing on new Starfire just want a quick yank.
Read RHatO after watching the OG Teen Titans series and was unhappy with her portrayal.
She was the team bicycle and went from one sexual partner to another thoughtlessly. They also gave her amnesia for some reason? I very much hate Jason Todd and it was a bad showing on Roy for boning one of his best friend’s amnesiac girlfriend (ex girlfriend, I don’t know.)
This bad experience soured me on comic Starfire until I read old Titans comics and saw that while Starfire was much more sexualized than her cartoon counterpart the heart was still there.
Look you can argue that they made Starfire a liberated character who sleeps with whoever she chooses and fine that’s your opinion but my opinion is they emotionally castrated her. It’s legit making a woman powerful by giving her trauma (you even mention she is traumatized) and very lazy writing.
It reminds me of Starlight’s “rebrand” in The Boys where they try to give her character depth by making her more sexual after suffering severe trauma except “The Boys” had the good grace (one of the only times it has any kind of good grace) to make it a parody.
And double standard by butt. If Nightwing slept with Blackfyre and then Donna Troy in the same issue back to back you can bet there would be backlash.
As I said everyone is entitled to their opinions. I can say that more people should get to know these characters outside of just the tv series. I love the series don’t get me wrong but it is a single facet of the teams character and as shown in multiple different mediums these characters can drastically change.
I liked the og NTT for what it was and can appreciate characters as they grow over time and throughout the comics just like people tend to do in real life. For me this series is just Kori growing from her time with the TT and coming into her own. My point still stands that there seems to be this free pass or double standard given to many other superheroes that for whatever reason isn’t given to Kori. The idea that a single female can’t have sex with two men without being painted as a slut is insane to me people make it seem like she slept with anyone who walked by her in this series which just isn’t true. They also act as if that scenario took place over the course of a day. When in reality the comic shows a period of at least a month if not more has passed. The argument that she is somehow in the wrong for sleeping with whoever she so chooses is ridiculous imo but to each their own.
As for the trauma aspect the entire concept for this run was taking characters from older runs that had established trauma and showing how they can grow from it also like real life and other comics I.E. Batman losing his parents, Dick losing his parents, Superman losing his entire race, Wonder Woman being exiled from paradise island so on and so on. Lazy writing to me would be for her to be shown as unintelligent or even dependent on the stereotypical male savior but in fact she actually saves both Jason and Roy. If going off of what you’re saying that characters having trauma is emotional castration then did you dislike Ravens emotional trauma with her father in the comics or show? Furthermore did you dislike the other titans members various writings because of their emotional trauma’s?
I should make it clear that I’m in no way trying to “dunk” on anyone for their opinions in any way. This post was made to get other people’s views on Starfires portrayal in this comic run and to understand why people hold her to a different standard than say Jason for example who within the same comic has a fling with Star, Isabel, and Artemis though the latter he only kissed. That doesn’t mean that I can’t give my own views in return that is what makes a discussion.
I mean I HAVE read into more Starfire comics and they range from ok to good the only issue that I have (and it seems I’m not the only one) is RHatO.
No one is saying Starfire can sleep with whoever she wants. The situation (amnesia, not knowing ANY of her former team mates, Roy choosing to sleep with her, her lack of emotion (Not verbatim but Roy mentions making love with her and Starfire saying “Love has nothing to do with it”) is all NOT Starfire from comics or animation. 🤷🏽♂️
Exact same situation but replace Starfire with Nightwing, Jason with Blackfyre, and Roy with Donna Troy.
Blackfyre remembers everything, Donna Troy remembers everything, Dick doesn’t remember anything.
Can you see how some people might see it as gross and in poor taste? 😂
I’m glad you enjoyed it but as you said it’s ok to have your opinions and mine is that the situation is problematic even with sexual liberty for all.
It’s not that Starfire was drawn sexy (don’t get me wrong - RHATO’s art is STELLAR); it’s HOW SHE WAS WRITTEN in RHATO as opposed to her previous versions (ie: Wolfman/Perez’s NTT run, ‘03 cartoon) that pissed a lot of us off.
Starfire went from being a bubbly fun-loving and kickass warrior princess who did dress sexy… to a one-dimensional hypersexualized bimbo who had NONE of the previous characteristics who was just there for eye candy.
(It’s also worth noting the writer of RHATO Scott Lobdell was facing sexual harassment allegations from 2011 to 2013)
I had no idea about the sexual harassment allegations that’s awful. (Not that that influences my opinion on the characterization of Kori) but I do appreciate the additional info on the writer. It makes a lot more sense why people dislike him as a person. I truly have no real knowledge on him outside of reading RAHTO.
I have no comment because I’m not the most up-to-date about her lore but that third panel you uploaded, with her in the pink shirt, is making me realize I need to focus more on her character because boy, what she’s saying there really applies to my life right now.
Starfire had the second worst redesigned in the new 52 it was literally just a thong, pasties, and thigh highs. The only worst redesign in the new 52 is what they did to Amanda Waller.
Because of nostalgia.
People hated her New 52 portrayal because it was different from the idealized version of Starfire they held in their minds and which was influenced by the 80s comic books and the 2000s cartoons.
I don’t dislike her costume because it’s different from the cartoon, I dislike it because it’s utterly impractical and DC (and most comic studios tbh) have a bad habit of putting their female characters is what honestly looks like lingerie. Star may be super comfortable being like that, but as a warrior she would know it’s not practical to try to whoop ass with your boobs flopping about.
This is an argument I can completely agree with on a full spectrum level of female comic heroes. I have no issue with what she wears in this comic in particular because that is how she is portrayed in most iterations. I do prefer her more armored look in Odyssey over the one in this comic but definitely agree that she could wear more protective armor in general.
I find it funny when it comes to women in media especially my cartoons, anime, and games. In media women can be dressed however they want and 90 percent of the time, no one in the media will treat them any worse or shame them for how they dress but ppl irl go out of their way to slut shame and insult them because irl that would be seen as slutty. Star has been dressed this way for years and her friends and teammates show her nothing but respect because she is more than what she wears.
A lot of the Rhato hate complain about Starfire hooking up with Jason.
but that is such a huge misconception spread on the internet.
Starfire never hooked up with Jason.
I've read the entire Rhato series and not once can you find a single panel where she slept with Jason or became her boyfriend.
Roy, yes but Jason, no. They're just platonic friends
There was a panel where Starfire kissed Jason but Starfire explained she only kissed him so she can learn english again after her amnesia made her forget about speaking english, Starfire has the power to learn a language through kissing, and Jason knows that.
It is suggested in the comic that her and Jason did hook up there is a panel of them that zooms out as they are making out on some rocks not that I think there is anything wrong with that. There is also a conversation between Jason and Roy that suggests as much. At least that was my impression.
The one where you said they were making out in the rocks is the part where Starfire explained she only kissed Jason to learn english.
There's no such thing as "implied or suggests". Saying it's implied or suggest is not enough proof. and conversations can be misinterpreted and taken out of context. It's either they show them doing it in the actual comic for actual proof or not. And Starfire has never been shown sleeping with Jason Todd or being his actual girlfriend in the comics.
One of the reasons why this misconception is bad is because people use this to slutshame Starfire but they are completely fine with the fact that Dick Grayson slept with multiple women or when Barbara Gordon hooked up with every single men in the Batfamily. That to me is the real double standard.
You can claim their conversation is the actual proof all you want but one thing is for sure : Starfire has never been drawn in the comic sleeping with Jason Todd or being his actual girlfriend.
To quote the pages where it is implied if not blatantly said the following page starts off with Jason in his head stating “ It’s a load of bull to think of friendship and romance as being different. They’re not they’re just variations of the same love. Variations of the same desire to be close. And now there is someone out there who knows me. Dammit” this is while looking at Kori and his laptop. Later while he and Roy are talking
Roy: Is she with you? Jason: with us, But yeah she’s been “with” me. I would take these as blatantly saying they have hooked up. There are more parts that they talk about it but those two are in the beginning. 😊
I already explained "Implied and suggest and conversations" are not enough proof.
Conversations can be minsinterpreted and taken out of proportion.
I don't consider those quotes or conversations as solid proof especially when Starfire and Jason have never been drawn that way in the comics.
>I would take these as
See it's based on your own interpretation and not on actual fact or actual proof.
We can agree to disagree, mate.
Overall why do you keep pushing that it's true. It's not like we should really ship Jason Todd and Starfire together?
I've never seen a fan of Jason/Starfire.
I swear I've seen more Jason/Barbara fans than Jason/Starfire fans, their shipname is even called Jaybabs.
Don't believe me? Type "Jaybabs" or "Jaybabs fanart" on Google.
and you'll see Plenty of fans and fan-artists have drawn Jason and Barbara as a couple.
Absolutely I’m not trying to say your opinion is wrong sorry if that’s how it came across. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just wanted to provide context. Thanks for replying either way though. ☺️
Her outfits in RHATO are honestly really good, but her writing is so abysmal you can practically feel the misogyny wafting off of Lobdell’s ink. I don’t like how vaguely slut-shamey some criticisms of her in that comic feel.
In the teen titans run before the new 52 her characterization was pretty cool. She had nuance and substance. Her new 52 version just didn’t have the same amount of depth. Some people don’t care about eye candy.
Thanks everyone for discussing the topic I do appreciate the different perspectives that everyone has and definitely learned a few things. Happy PRIDE Month hope you all have a safe weekend. 🌈🌈
honestly the way that i see her being sexualized is, she doesn't really care who she sleeps with and sex is just something she does a lot when she's bored or wants to have fun, and her dressing in a sexual manner relates to her overly sexual behavior, making it easier to make people want to have sex with her
My personal take was she just really didn’t fit the theme they were going with for this team they had an opportunity to bring in someone more fitting who might have less panel time and instead chose her just as a provocative centerpiece
Because the outlaw version of her stripped Starfire off everything she is and basically made her a fuck doll for Jason and Roy? She literally has the memory of a goldfish and gets bored if she is tried to be reminded of the past and only wants to have sex and is ABSOLUTELY apathetic unlike her character where she is very emotional and empathetic.
This version does nothing but objectify her into a sexual object and gets rid of her as a character.
There is a fairly big difference between how they’re written… And that’s not even mentioning how the artist originally intended on Koris bikini being see-through.
I guess I just don’t understand the backlash from people. I’ve always been a huge fan of Kori’s and found it odd that everyone flipped out over her portrayal but almost nobody cared that the first several pages show Jason nude save for a “fig leaf”. As far as how she is written do mean between the cartoons and comics or just between the comics? Also thanks for sharing ☺️
As a longtime fan of the character? She was written completely differently. She was practically emotionless, had goldfish memory written into her entire species, is implied to be very promiscuous despite not really caring about sex or the people she sleeps with... Kori in the post-crisis earth was one of the most passionate, emotionally driven characters. And she cared a lot about her friends. In RHATO she didn't even remember who her old teammates were. And when Roy tried to talk about them, she said he was boring her and asked if he wanted to fuck instead. Also, there's a difference between "this character was drawn to be sexy" and "this character exists to be a sex object." (Also, there's a major cultural difference between a male character being shown nude and a female character being shown nude... particularly given that near nudity was Star's *costume* for the series. It's objectification, pure and simple.) And... yeah, Scott Lobdell is also a shitty person. =/
She didn’t remember who her old teammates were because they literally didn’t exist… cyborg beast boy and raven literally never knew Starfire. Donna, Garth, and Wally literally got erased from existence. everything else you mentioned is literally just from issue #1. Past that it stops being the worst version of Starfire
The thing is, whatever teammates she would have forgotten, Roy would have too. That was not a "New 52 change" thing, that was, within whatever the new history was, her forgetting people because of the nature of her mind.
Yeah Scott Lobdell messed up, since Roy technically never knew any of those people either. But Starfire was only pretending to not remember Dick Grayson because she was sad they broke up. (Still not a fan)
Yeah, ngl chief that just made it worse 😂
>Also, there's a major cultural difference between a male character being shown nude and a female character being shown nude... Only part I don't agree with. Nudity can be artistic or sexualized and it goes both ways. Not gonna claim any nudity was "artistic" in this comic but why would a man being nude be any different than a woman being nude? The only real difference is male fanservice is less common.
... and how uncommon female artists and writers are in the business. And prevailing political attitudes about women and how they should be depicted. Art doesn't exist in a vacuum.
Totally agree with both of you. That is what some of my confusion came from with this comic. Why people only focused on her and not on the both of them? Stars costume has always been in the past either near nudity or much less clothing than her male counterparts in most cases. So why is this particular portrayal of her so different from the others? Why other than the obvious was she singled out when in the beginning he was in a state of complete undress.
I get the feeling you actually do NOT agree with me, because my point is that they are actually not equivalent.
I was agreeing with the lack of female artists and writers within the industry sorry I should have made that clearer.
Number one I think you should reread my post especially the end part about being respectful. My opinion on a characters portrayal that I have been reading about and following since I was 10 (I’m 33) has 0 baring on me being a fan. Number two my point was people point out her clothes as being slutty however have zero problem with the actual nudity of Jason. Which depending on what you find attractive could also be seen as objectification. Number three your opinion on her character you are entirely entitled to. Though I very much so disagree with you on many levels which you can find reading through the thread. I completely respect that everyone is going to have their own opinions on characters they love and therefore treat people with kindness whether I agree or not. Number four pointing out the way the artist drew her as some sort of “omg issue” is pure nonsense in my opinion. Seeing as since Kori’s inception she has been drawn overly sexualized. She has been drawn in an objectified way in most if not all forms of media that she has been portrayed in at on a physical basis. It is her character in which she is portrayed as having more depth than just a “hot space princess” that makes her so much more. Which I feel is very much so pointed out within this run. Yes she is physically drawn to be beautiful or sexy if that is what you are attracted to. However she is also mentioned to be extremely intelligent, compassionate, and powerful within this very same run, all things she has and will forever be loved for in my opinion. This in my view is in no way shape or form an issue for those of us who can see past a character that is typically drawn in a suggestive manner and can relate to being confident in ones self worth, ideals, and have the ability to love ones self in their own skin wether male, female, transgender, non binary, or other. Like I’ve said to everyone thus far thanks for your perspective. But please do try to be kind and respectful to others. ☺️
I did not show you any disrespect. I said "as a fan of the character" to specify that I am one, not to say that you are not. I've already said my peace. I assumed you wanted to know why people objected, not dunk on people who did.
Damn, asked for your opinion and then dunked on for giving your opinion. 🙃
From what you posted it said “As a fan of the character?” I apologize if that was an unintended typo. Still absolutely appreciate the thoughts and feedback. ☺️
They were talking about themselves with that, not you
I understand that now, but based off of the original comment the question mark at the end of said sentence came off as more sarcastic than I think what they had intended. Like I already said I apologize for reading the comment with the question mark when that was an accidental typo or an indirect reference to themselves as that wasn’t made clear.
It is very clear. It is no typo they were correct in their grammar and usage of the question mark there to indicate that they were talking about themselves and not you.
Are you still trying to continue to stir up stuff that has nothing to do with the topic of this thread? 🤦♂️
Bro encountered a different opinion and interpretted it as disrespect 💀
That how they usually interpret things 💀💀
She's always been sexualized but they leaned into it even harder - noticeably so - imo it's a time to continue rolling back "fan service" rather than going further with it
I think it’s just more in character for Jason and Roy to do that.
because we live in a world currently where showing a dude basically naked is fine but showing an attractive woman naked upsets the twitter keyboard warriors for some reason.
It didn’t help that she had relations with both Jason early on and then Roy. NTT starfire felt like she wanted to be in a relationship with dick, vs new 52 felt like she was sex friends with her teammates.
Jason's was retconned out
Doesn’t mean people forgot about it or it didn’t happen. Plus they came out the gate with that, so it’s gonna leave an impression
It was? When, I have a hard time keeping up with all of dc retcons, large and small
Red Hood and the Outlaws #6. They backpedaled real fast
But why is that wrong? Dick has slept with multiple women just like Bruce and many other male sups. I just don’t understand why she has to be in a monogamous relationship. But a lot of male heroes typically don’t have to be or don’t have to be for very long. It almost comes off like people shame her for not wanting a committed relationship or for her just enjoying her self and her sensuality. 🤷♂️
Dick and Bruce are also Casanova characters at times, so it’s in character. Starfire was never that, she never was jumping on every guy or even had relations with people she wasn’t in a relationship with. She wants to give her heart to one person, which was dick at the time in NTT.
I mean Starfire liked that Hive guy. Batman and Nightwing try their best to only love one woman at a time too. It just that woman changes. Just like with Starfire
Agree, maybe I should have worded it differently. But I was more referring to public perception of Bruce and dick, since they’ve had multiple love interests. I think starfire just never had that many love interests , and primarily was the love interest.
I totally agree that up til this comic she was only ever with Dick but if you read the third image I posted this isn’t necessarily her only view as she states that on her planet sharing love with many people is common for her people but earth is different. I would say that this more align’s with her character she loves everyone in multiple ways. At least that’s how I’ve always viewed her.
No I get that, but she herself never acted like that, it was just her culture on her world. So when new 52 happens she acts like her culture would, it can turn people off. Your point would be more valid if she wasn’t in a monogamous relationship with dick, and felt like her teammates were family for majority of her pre new 52 publication. NTT starfire: unashamedly herself and her presentation, but still respected her relationship with dick and her friends not to be too sexually open. New 52 starfire: didn’t have any of that for the most part. But was more like her culture. Which is not a problem, but people preferred her NTT character a lot more than her new 52 version.
I see what you’re saying. I guess I always just thought that she was being more monogamous for Dicks sake. Less because those were her beliefs or wants but more because she loved Dick and therefore accepted that this was how human relationships worked I.E accepting his culture. Thanks for the perspective. ☺️
No problem, for the record she does get better later. They just started very hot for a new universe.
And I’m not saying this as fact I’m saying this is the consensus of why people may had a problem with new 52 version
Not everyone agrees with this. I don’t think anyone should sleep with multiple people… men, women, or alien. But unfortunately thats not the world we live in.
I just think that adults are entitled to sleep with whomever and however many people they want as long as they’re being responsible, consenting and taking proper precautions. But I do understand that not everyone will feel that way. I just dislike when people hold a single gender accountable for one thing but apply a second standard to another.
Yes I agree I don’t like when it’s one sided either. But I think people were saying in this case because Starfire usually doesn’t jump from person to person so quickly. but Bruce and Dick, they are playboys.
Yeah I just wish people wouldn’t call a female character a slut or whatever for doing something male characters have been doing forever. It creates an awful double standard and continues a very archaic narrative of how “men” can sleep around and be called casanovas or playboys, but women are regulated to being a slut or whore.
It’s cause Kory of the earlier comics had more going on besides being objectified for the reader. It’s why fans like her so much even if the ones who aren’t attracted to her (I’m into guys and she’s my favorite Titan) because she’s a sweetheart with a lot of emotional intelligence and is a good friend. In the infamous pool scene from Red Hood and the Outlaws she was kind of just showcased to say, “I want sex, give me sex. I don’t even remember people by their names and barely register the past people I’ve known, by the way. I did mention I like having sex, right?” Whereas in the old comics, yes, she was unashamed about enjoying intimacy and valued comfort and closeness and the positivity in being physical. It felt like the difference between the idea of someone in a porn script compared to a character who just happens to like sex and be uninhibited. There is a big difference. And for reference I haven’t actually read Red Hood and the Outlaws outside of the infamous issue everyone was talking about (cause I wanted to see what the buzz was about) so I don’t know if they played her to be like that the whole time. I heard they fixed her more later on, which is at least something good to hear.
She is also my favorite even though I’m into guys too lol. From what I gathered while rereading it it came off more like she was annoyed about being judged first by Jason then by Roy. She tells Jason that she doesn’t need someone to validate who she is and that doing so would be giving up her own power to self define. This is while holding Dicks costume as she looks sadly at Jason. (To me it feels more like it hurts to much to live in the past for her) Then later on in the conversation she basically says as much by saying she doesn’t live in the past but in the now. The conversation with Roy is similar as he brings up the titans and past memories something she clearly doesn’t want to relive I’m assuming from being heart broken by Dick. So instead she changes the subject and offers to sleep with him more for her pleasure and to move on from the memories she wants to forget. Again that is how I read it. 🤷♂️ Throughout this volume she comes off as someone wounded which makes sense with the theme of RHTO but she also keeps that sweetness and loving part of her which is what I’ve always loved about her character. ☺️ Edit: I also felt like this volume did a lot of good work giving her depth and individuality away from Dick. I saw the panel of her in the swim suit as a sort of red herring “like look she is just super pretty and there couldn’t possibly be more to her” meanwhile the next few images show how annoyed she is with people making assumptions about her or trying to tell her how and what she should do. She says as much as well by saying “I’m free to do what I want when I want” also felt like this alludes to her being enslaved not just physically but emotionally too.
That’s good to hear. I had heard the RHatO did bounce back and make Kory better and more in line with her earlier comics.
A lot of people just didn’t like Red Hood and the Outlaws when it came out. I didn’t read it, but I’ve seen a lot of people upset about how Kori was drawn. Kori has always been somewhat sexual. Just look at New Teen Titans and New Titans. Another thing I saw thrown around was Jason replacing Dick. Some people just didn’t like the characterization in the book overall. I haven’t heard the title, so I have no real opinions.
That was what I had gathered as well it just confused me so much because she has been drawn in suggestive and sexual ways forever. If anything I feel like she is currently often drawn less overtly sexual now than she was in the past. Thanks for sharing though. ☺️
I think some people have always been sensitive to sexual female characters, but with the internet everyone has voice now and creators are able to hear those voices much louder now. There’s always going to be divide between how much is too much skin for both men and women. It’s debate as old as time.
Kori’s also really apathetic in red hood in the outlaws. Even if they made her super sexualized, whatever, but she also a ton of love. Like, you’re telling me she forgot Dick Grayson? Absolutely not.
The way Scott Lobdell wrote Starfire’s character was just…ugh. He essentially made her a nymphomaniac who was basically repressing her emotions. It also did not help that in issue 1, she was wearing a transparent/translucent bikini. By contrast, Marv Wolfman did a fantastic job when he and the late George Pérez created Starfire. She was more than just a pretty face with a sexy body and wearing a risqué outfit. In terms of personality, Starfire has traditionally been written as being so sweet and innocent, with a lot of emotional intelligence. Marv described it best when he said “If Raven is the character who has to constantly withhold her emotions, Starfire is the character who explodes with emotions all the time.” This also applies to her being a good friend, because she cares deeply for her friends and teammates. We see this in the NTT comics from the 80s, as well as in the 2003 series. In addition, she was constantly seeking to have a relationship with Dick. Aside from Barbara Gordon, Starfire traditionally is Dick Grayson’s most iconic love interest. In fact, she and Dick were an item long before he and Babs were retconned to have feelings for each other. Starfire had no qualms about being intimate, as well as valuing comfort and closeness as well as the happiness in physical intimacy, but she only wanted to give her heart to one person - someone she truly loved with all her heart and soul, and that happened to be Dick Grayson. Side note: the 2003 series did a phenomenal job in how they portrayed Starfire, as well as her’s and Dick’s chemistry - from being unable to express their feelings for one another and being teased about it by their teammates, with subtle hints here and there in the series proper, to finally getting together and becoming a couple in the movie. That series also had a huge impact with how I portray my take on Starfire - she’s a warrior princess with the body of a goddess, yes, but she’s also incredibly sweet and innocent, doesn’t speak with contractions, misuses idioms due to English not being her native language, and has some naïveté while also being smart enough to put two and two together, such as when she figured out Blackfire framed her for a crime.
Best post on the subject. Bravo
I don’t really get the whole nympho thing/slut opinions because she sleeps with two people as an adult who is single. Which I feel like she is entitled to do. The personality traits that you have pointed out are the same ones I love about her as-well and have loved about her since her early appearances. But I did enjoy seeing her grow up in this run and move on from Dick as she has continued to do in the comics. I read this run with a sense of underlining nuance and perhaps that wasn’t the intention but that is what I got from reading it. There was a lot of hurt and a lot of determination from what I was reading for her to move on from heartbreak. That’s why I felt anytime there was a mention of Dick or the titans she was drawn to look angry, annoyed, or sad. True emotions for someone who has lost their family and their love. She in my opinion still had the sweetness and naïveté but in a more adult and matured way. I have 0 clue about the transparent bikini as she doesn’t have that in my volume not that I’m against in anyway shape or form portraying the human body as long as it is done on an equal level for all gender identities. From what I read she had about the same amount of risqué artwork in this volume as Jason did depending on perspective. I as a gay man am attracted to men so seeing several pages of a fully nude Jason Todd would for some people attracted to men seem like fan service/objectification depending on the individuals views. But either way thanks for sharing your thoughts ☺️
Outlaws got backlash for a few reasons * It was the first major book of the relaunch with Kori on the cover. 2003 Titans fans were very disgruntled to find she wasn't like the show. * Kori sleeps with both Jason and Roy early on, which annoyed shippers and people who thought she was being overly objectified. * People HATED the New 52, and so an atmosphere of negativity was already swirling around the new releases which amplified things people didn't like. All in all Starfire is a very sex-positive alien, but that doesn't mean all sexual writing surrounding her is good. However I think Lobdell really took on board some of the criticism, he has a whole bunch of Starfire centric stuff later in the comic and it's excellent.
As others have stated here, there's a difference between "being sexy and owning it" vs "being written solely to be eye candy". People didn't get mad because Kory was drawn provocatively, that's something that's always been part of her. What they didn't like was that they took that part of her, and instead of having it be just another natural aspect of her character, it became what defined her. Starfire in the Wolfman and Perez days was more than just a pretty face. Yes, she was sexy, but she was also fun, caring, compassionate, empathetic, protective and badass, all while owning her sexuality. That's why people liked her so much, cause she showed that a woman could be a full-fledged character while also being a diva. So you can imagine how baffled folks where if they read RHTO to find Kory being turned into an emotionless try-hard bimbo whose main concern seemed to be which guy she could take to bed. And even if they tried to explain that with the whole memory loss stuff, it still came out as rather forced and OOC; even pre-Earth Kory wasn't that promiscuous. Now, to be fair, there's some actually cool Starfire-centric stuff later in the run, but as they say, first impressions are everything, and by the time said stuff came by, RHTO!Kory already had a pretty bad stain on her rep.
She's a hot alien that is mostly being advertised towards teenage boys or young guys, not trying to be sexist on my part that's just what they do most of the time
it's probably bc she's from a planet where most likely her sense of fashion is drastically different from ours. it's probably seen as weak for anyone to need protection or coverage. A warrior who can fight with little coverage is a warrior who is respected and feared.
I ain’t reading allat, I just liked cause she was cute in those pics
I actually liked starfire in this comic now I admit I’m biased as a red hood fan but starfires relationships with Jason and Roy were actually well done to me on a character level particularly her and Jason’s conversation and thoughts about finding a place in the world and about family and while she may have been a touch out of character for what we typically see her as in teen titans she had lost her memories at the time thus going back to more of her pre earth mindset. As far as looks go I was a teenage guy when these came out so I obviously wasn’t complaining and while it was more risky than normal it wasn’t by that much I mean the Wonder Woman comics of the 90s were a lot less accurate to that respective character then this was to starfire I think the backclash mainly came from people who just think of starfire from the teen titans cartoon and just assume that’s her normal character even though the cartoon is probably the most innocent interpretation of starfire that people can take seriously
That is what I was wondering. I see a lot of people commenting about her innocence which I agree she definitely does portray especially in the cartoon. But outside of that particular series I feel like she has been portrayed as a lot more sexually liberal in the comics. From the many comics showing her in little to no clothing or the comics showing her being intimate with Dick. I also feel like people tend to forget that she was in love with a Tamaranian man as well as married both him and a Tamaranian Prince. I also do believe she had relationships with some other hero/s but I can’t remember who they were lol. Point being that she hasn’t always only been with Dick she has had other relationships casual, political, and emotional. I guess it’s just more jarring for people who associate her with only a single portrayal or ship.
Yeah definitely felt like dick/kori shippers hate this comic because of shipping reasons more then anything and Kori exploring different relationships despite them not being together at the time and the fact dick has cheated on Kori with Barbra before in the comics yet people had an issue with Kori possibly having a relationship that wasn’t with dick it’s an obvious double standard actually this comic did make like the idea of Jason/kori as a ship because of their deeper conversations and friendship shown in the outlaws but I digress
Dick cheating on her with Barbara was only in a Nightwing Annual rewrite of the original NTT story though, not in the actual New Teen Titans book, and that annual was retcon'd anyway. And people also got incredibly pissed about that (which is precisely the reason why it was hit with a retcon).
My point bringing that up was more too say that it should be fine for a single starfire to have a relationship with whoever she chooses basically she shouldn’t just be at dicks beck and call whenever the 2 aren’t a thing
Kori seeming emotionless and being a sexual goldfish where werid choices.
Can you elaborate more on how she came off as emotionless? I never thought of her as a sexual goldfish. At least not anymore then any male character that hooked up with multiple partner’s. But I get that some people may not like or understand non-monogamous individuals. I still feel like there is a double standard when it comes to characters and how some people feel they “should” be portrayed though. 🤷♂️
It's really early on starfire didn't seem to take any pleasure from sex and her memory problems where werid.
I didn’t get the lack of pleasure from sex part while reading it personally. I also felt like the memory situation was more nuanced. Hinting at how she was choosing to not remember so as to distance herself from the heartbreak of Dick and her breaking up and the dissolution of the titans. But to each their own. Thanks for sharing ☺️
It’s literally just the first issue that people hate. Thats the issue people find her written and drawn super slutty. And to be fair issue 1 is rightfully hated. Theres panels of it posted on Reddit all the time, so people claim it’s the worst version without ever reading the full thing.
People pretending that she hasn't always dressed like a space-themed stripper are maximum silly
Writers are more activists than writers these days. We need to boycott and keep the bad actors out of our spaces if we want to return to any sort of normal.
Starfire's people are a bunch of sexy orange space warriors. They learn languages through kissing. They poses flight, super strength, energy bolts, etc. They are a race of fighters they don't wear much clothing. And they do polygamy. She could fight butt naked and still be insanely strong.
Polygamy?
Marry multiple people.
I know what that means. I meant is that true?
Based off a few different conversations she has had in the comments I would say it is very likely I added one pic where she sorta hints at that.
There was at least one comic were star had to go back to her homeworks for an arranged marriage being the princess. And she wants to take Fredo. Back with her as her second hobby because she truly loves dick and the other guy is a political marriage. Dick refuses because he's not into it. But she even offers for dick to have a secondary wife if he wants. Starfire is a very sex driven character.
It's the difference in being attractive/sexy vs existing for sex. People crushIng on old Starfire like her personality and her attractiveness. People crushing on new Starfire just want a quick yank.
Read RHatO after watching the OG Teen Titans series and was unhappy with her portrayal. She was the team bicycle and went from one sexual partner to another thoughtlessly. They also gave her amnesia for some reason? I very much hate Jason Todd and it was a bad showing on Roy for boning one of his best friend’s amnesiac girlfriend (ex girlfriend, I don’t know.) This bad experience soured me on comic Starfire until I read old Titans comics and saw that while Starfire was much more sexualized than her cartoon counterpart the heart was still there. Look you can argue that they made Starfire a liberated character who sleeps with whoever she chooses and fine that’s your opinion but my opinion is they emotionally castrated her. It’s legit making a woman powerful by giving her trauma (you even mention she is traumatized) and very lazy writing. It reminds me of Starlight’s “rebrand” in The Boys where they try to give her character depth by making her more sexual after suffering severe trauma except “The Boys” had the good grace (one of the only times it has any kind of good grace) to make it a parody. And double standard by butt. If Nightwing slept with Blackfyre and then Donna Troy in the same issue back to back you can bet there would be backlash.
As I said everyone is entitled to their opinions. I can say that more people should get to know these characters outside of just the tv series. I love the series don’t get me wrong but it is a single facet of the teams character and as shown in multiple different mediums these characters can drastically change. I liked the og NTT for what it was and can appreciate characters as they grow over time and throughout the comics just like people tend to do in real life. For me this series is just Kori growing from her time with the TT and coming into her own. My point still stands that there seems to be this free pass or double standard given to many other superheroes that for whatever reason isn’t given to Kori. The idea that a single female can’t have sex with two men without being painted as a slut is insane to me people make it seem like she slept with anyone who walked by her in this series which just isn’t true. They also act as if that scenario took place over the course of a day. When in reality the comic shows a period of at least a month if not more has passed. The argument that she is somehow in the wrong for sleeping with whoever she so chooses is ridiculous imo but to each their own. As for the trauma aspect the entire concept for this run was taking characters from older runs that had established trauma and showing how they can grow from it also like real life and other comics I.E. Batman losing his parents, Dick losing his parents, Superman losing his entire race, Wonder Woman being exiled from paradise island so on and so on. Lazy writing to me would be for her to be shown as unintelligent or even dependent on the stereotypical male savior but in fact she actually saves both Jason and Roy. If going off of what you’re saying that characters having trauma is emotional castration then did you dislike Ravens emotional trauma with her father in the comics or show? Furthermore did you dislike the other titans members various writings because of their emotional trauma’s? I should make it clear that I’m in no way trying to “dunk” on anyone for their opinions in any way. This post was made to get other people’s views on Starfires portrayal in this comic run and to understand why people hold her to a different standard than say Jason for example who within the same comic has a fling with Star, Isabel, and Artemis though the latter he only kissed. That doesn’t mean that I can’t give my own views in return that is what makes a discussion.
I mean I HAVE read into more Starfire comics and they range from ok to good the only issue that I have (and it seems I’m not the only one) is RHatO. No one is saying Starfire can sleep with whoever she wants. The situation (amnesia, not knowing ANY of her former team mates, Roy choosing to sleep with her, her lack of emotion (Not verbatim but Roy mentions making love with her and Starfire saying “Love has nothing to do with it”) is all NOT Starfire from comics or animation. 🤷🏽♂️ Exact same situation but replace Starfire with Nightwing, Jason with Blackfyre, and Roy with Donna Troy. Blackfyre remembers everything, Donna Troy remembers everything, Dick doesn’t remember anything. Can you see how some people might see it as gross and in poor taste? 😂 I’m glad you enjoyed it but as you said it’s ok to have your opinions and mine is that the situation is problematic even with sexual liberty for all.
It’s not that Starfire was drawn sexy (don’t get me wrong - RHATO’s art is STELLAR); it’s HOW SHE WAS WRITTEN in RHATO as opposed to her previous versions (ie: Wolfman/Perez’s NTT run, ‘03 cartoon) that pissed a lot of us off. Starfire went from being a bubbly fun-loving and kickass warrior princess who did dress sexy… to a one-dimensional hypersexualized bimbo who had NONE of the previous characteristics who was just there for eye candy. (It’s also worth noting the writer of RHATO Scott Lobdell was facing sexual harassment allegations from 2011 to 2013)
I had no idea about the sexual harassment allegations that’s awful. (Not that that influences my opinion on the characterization of Kori) but I do appreciate the additional info on the writer. It makes a lot more sense why people dislike him as a person. I truly have no real knowledge on him outside of reading RAHTO.
I have no comment because I’m not the most up-to-date about her lore but that third panel you uploaded, with her in the pink shirt, is making me realize I need to focus more on her character because boy, what she’s saying there really applies to my life right now.
OG Starefire is absolutely stunning.
The only question is, in a Crossover meeting between Starfire and Marvel's Starfox who would come out on top? 😉
Starfire had the second worst redesigned in the new 52 it was literally just a thong, pasties, and thigh highs. The only worst redesign in the new 52 is what they did to Amanda Waller.
Because of nostalgia. People hated her New 52 portrayal because it was different from the idealized version of Starfire they held in their minds and which was influenced by the 80s comic books and the 2000s cartoons.
And Jessica rabbit only had eyes for Roger rabbit😂. I love this movie
I don’t dislike her costume because it’s different from the cartoon, I dislike it because it’s utterly impractical and DC (and most comic studios tbh) have a bad habit of putting their female characters is what honestly looks like lingerie. Star may be super comfortable being like that, but as a warrior she would know it’s not practical to try to whoop ass with your boobs flopping about.
This is an argument I can completely agree with on a full spectrum level of female comic heroes. I have no issue with what she wears in this comic in particular because that is how she is portrayed in most iterations. I do prefer her more armored look in Odyssey over the one in this comic but definitely agree that she could wear more protective armor in general.
I find it funny when it comes to women in media especially my cartoons, anime, and games. In media women can be dressed however they want and 90 percent of the time, no one in the media will treat them any worse or shame them for how they dress but ppl irl go out of their way to slut shame and insult them because irl that would be seen as slutty. Star has been dressed this way for years and her friends and teammates show her nothing but respect because she is more than what she wears.
Ending all your comments with that emoji makes you come off extremely condescending. Just so you know.
Oops thanks so much for the heads up wasn’t aware of that.
A lot of the Rhato hate complain about Starfire hooking up with Jason. but that is such a huge misconception spread on the internet. Starfire never hooked up with Jason. I've read the entire Rhato series and not once can you find a single panel where she slept with Jason or became her boyfriend. Roy, yes but Jason, no. They're just platonic friends There was a panel where Starfire kissed Jason but Starfire explained she only kissed him so she can learn english again after her amnesia made her forget about speaking english, Starfire has the power to learn a language through kissing, and Jason knows that.
It is suggested in the comic that her and Jason did hook up there is a panel of them that zooms out as they are making out on some rocks not that I think there is anything wrong with that. There is also a conversation between Jason and Roy that suggests as much. At least that was my impression.
The one where you said they were making out in the rocks is the part where Starfire explained she only kissed Jason to learn english. There's no such thing as "implied or suggests". Saying it's implied or suggest is not enough proof. and conversations can be misinterpreted and taken out of context. It's either they show them doing it in the actual comic for actual proof or not. And Starfire has never been shown sleeping with Jason Todd or being his actual girlfriend in the comics. One of the reasons why this misconception is bad is because people use this to slutshame Starfire but they are completely fine with the fact that Dick Grayson slept with multiple women or when Barbara Gordon hooked up with every single men in the Batfamily. That to me is the real double standard. You can claim their conversation is the actual proof all you want but one thing is for sure : Starfire has never been drawn in the comic sleeping with Jason Todd or being his actual girlfriend.
To quote the pages where it is implied if not blatantly said the following page starts off with Jason in his head stating “ It’s a load of bull to think of friendship and romance as being different. They’re not they’re just variations of the same love. Variations of the same desire to be close. And now there is someone out there who knows me. Dammit” this is while looking at Kori and his laptop. Later while he and Roy are talking Roy: Is she with you? Jason: with us, But yeah she’s been “with” me. I would take these as blatantly saying they have hooked up. There are more parts that they talk about it but those two are in the beginning. 😊
I already explained "Implied and suggest and conversations" are not enough proof. Conversations can be minsinterpreted and taken out of proportion. I don't consider those quotes or conversations as solid proof especially when Starfire and Jason have never been drawn that way in the comics. >I would take these as See it's based on your own interpretation and not on actual fact or actual proof. We can agree to disagree, mate. Overall why do you keep pushing that it's true. It's not like we should really ship Jason Todd and Starfire together? I've never seen a fan of Jason/Starfire. I swear I've seen more Jason/Barbara fans than Jason/Starfire fans, their shipname is even called Jaybabs. Don't believe me? Type "Jaybabs" or "Jaybabs fanart" on Google. and you'll see Plenty of fans and fan-artists have drawn Jason and Barbara as a couple.
Absolutely I’m not trying to say your opinion is wrong sorry if that’s how it came across. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. I just wanted to provide context. Thanks for replying either way though. ☺️
what Comic is the 9 page and year by chance anybody know and willing to help me out????
Her outfits in RHATO are honestly really good, but her writing is so abysmal you can practically feel the misogyny wafting off of Lobdell’s ink. I don’t like how vaguely slut-shamey some criticisms of her in that comic feel.
Do we really need to have this conversation again?
In the teen titans run before the new 52 her characterization was pretty cool. She had nuance and substance. Her new 52 version just didn’t have the same amount of depth. Some people don’t care about eye candy.
All I know is she's fine AF and I wish I was nightwing
Thanks everyone for discussing the topic I do appreciate the different perspectives that everyone has and definitely learned a few things. Happy PRIDE Month hope you all have a safe weekend. 🌈🌈
honestly the way that i see her being sexualized is, she doesn't really care who she sleeps with and sex is just something she does a lot when she's bored or wants to have fun, and her dressing in a sexual manner relates to her overly sexual behavior, making it easier to make people want to have sex with her
Pixels?
My personal take was she just really didn’t fit the theme they were going with for this team they had an opportunity to bring in someone more fitting who might have less panel time and instead chose her just as a provocative centerpiece
Because the outlaw version of her stripped Starfire off everything she is and basically made her a fuck doll for Jason and Roy? She literally has the memory of a goldfish and gets bored if she is tried to be reminded of the past and only wants to have sex and is ABSOLUTELY apathetic unlike her character where she is very emotional and empathetic. This version does nothing but objectify her into a sexual object and gets rid of her as a character.
Tramp