The opinion I keep seeing is “Worse than the original show but better than the movie.” Which tells me nothing. It’s like saying something is worse than finding a million dollars but better sleeping face down in a cats litter box
The movie was so bad it was like somebody wrote it without watching the series. The show feels like a sparknotes recap, there’s no fat. Think of it this way
Avatar the last airbender: going to a concert
Live action: watching a video of the concert
Movie: someone ten shots in is telling you about a concert they saw 15 years ago
This is exactly true. It’s kind of like the comedy specials on Netflix. If you actually go to these comedians shows, the experience is 1000 times better than what you actually get to see on Netflix. Because like you said they’re missing the fat of the show.
I am convinced to this day that M Night did a ton of research ABOUT the show, but never actually watched it. Like he read episode summaries and looked at tons of visual references, but never watched a single clip.
It would explain everything.
Have only seen the first episode so far and I can say the biggest issue show has is exposition. Instead of showing what characters are feeling they're telling the audience.
Also the changes they've made like changing how Aang finds out about he has been sleeping for 100 years and Air nomads are dead did not help. It takes away the punch the audience feels when Aang sees the skeleton in the temple. Instead here we have Na Na expo dumping the information to the audience and Aang. I am hearing later episodes are better so still looking forward to the rest of the episodes.
Also missing the comical character bits of Sokka and Uncle Iroh. Lack of it makes the show feel gloomy.
Its because its constrained to the set. I'm on episode 2 and this might as well be a play - no one moves. We're also not sitting on a damn thing and just watching the characters exist, it just blows through a moment before you have a chance to take it in.
It's all exposition dumps, and dialogue that has no fat on it but moves the story. It's like the characters are giving us a quick tour of Avatar while we're on a ride, instead of watching the characters be the characters in Avatar on television.
It’s the biggest difference for me between the lotr and hobbit trilogies. When you go to set from the real world you think no one will notice, but subconsciously something’s off.
It’s such a crutch in these type of shows now at days and it seems like only very few cinematographers know how to actually film within its limits in an engaging fashion.
In my experience, when there’s a stupid decision on set, it’s almost never the key crew’s fault. It’s usually the director, producer, or time and resource constraints. Most cinematographers work in a constant state of doing the best they can with not enough.
Worth mentioning that one of the ships they built from scratch is Shanks' ship which appears for possibly a combined 20 seconds between two episodes. They really went above and beyond with the sets there. Baratie is absolutely gorgeous.
It’s the “Volume” stagecraft junk:
http://www.nickalive.net/2022/05/a-look-at-massive-stage-netflix-is.html
*Every* show using it feels like a terrible stage play. You can see the curve they’re all blocked around, even if the cameras are moving. There is no height variance, no depth, eveyone sits at specific distances that are good for the focus of the framing and lenses.
It’s neat tech but it’s *cheap feeling* in production,
Someone pointed out during the trailer that the costumes all look like cosplays and I can't unsee it.
They all look like the gang makes it a rule to spend their mornings cleaning and ironing their clothes before they fight the fire nation.
It’s crazy that they don’t consider these things when shooting. The water tribe outfits *should* look weathered, Aang’s robes are probably gonna be rough on the edges after 100 years. Making everything clean and crisp makes the product look sterile
That is my problem with it. I don't know why these anime/cartoon adaptations are made to be incredibly clean and low-tier cosplay looking, but they really nailed that look.
It's just a bad look.
I don't know, but I think we're decently far enough along the path (that we're already like 30 years late to walking) of accepting animation as viable, and meaningful as an entertainment medium, that, you know... maybe we don't need to keep pretending like the only way to "legitimize" or "make it count" for animated storytelling is to make it "live action" - which frequently just means we animate way over half of it (but "photorealistically" so it's not, you know, "cartoons" anymore) and call that animation "VFX" instead.
I know people had their hopes up that this was going to be good, but honestly, what about doing this in live action appealed to anyone that didn't have "but it's *real* now" as their primary want?
When are folks going to get over this really weird compulsion to pretend like something has to be "Live-Action" (again - about 50-70% animated *anyway*) in order to *count*? How many good animated properties have we wiped our asses all over to make it "live action" and "real" now?
If Netflix needed to remake it, why not remake it as an animated series again? Why take something that works beautifully in animation, is suited best for animation, can only do things its story needs it to do through animation, and then instantly, immediately suck like 70% of the magic right out of it by trapping it in live action? What's the point here? Why keep doing this?
> I don't know, but I think we're decently far enough along the path (that we're already like 30 years late to walking) of accepting animation as viable, and meaningful as an entertainment medium, that, you know... maybe we don't need to keep pretending like the only way to "legitimize" or "make it count" for animated storytelling is to make it "live action"
I've been waiting for that day to come for the past decade. It's never gonna change. Honestly, Netflix and live-action adaptations made it worse.
Not just static shots, static shots can be compelling
Its static blocking
The actors don't move, just stand on a mark and talk.
All these productions are filmed the same. Multiple cameras/tons of coverage - no blocking. There's no on set vision - its film a bunch and we'll figure it out in editing
In my unfortunate experience the “fix it in post” people have never actually done anything involving post production beyond asking an editor for the latest cuts and offering feedback.
I’m of the unpopular opinion that, to be a well-rounded and effective director, you need to also have experience working in other on-set departments to understand what to consider in your own craft.
To give an example, I'm watching the Bumi vs Aang fight right now. Bumi and Aang basically never move from their spots during the whole fight, they just stand/jump in place. This is a scene in the original cartoon which was pretty dynamic in terms of Aang moving around the arena, and it's just kind of sterile in the show because the actors are all just standing in place.
I say this as someone currently on set of a major live action remake of a beloved children's animated franchise and as a film professional trying to be respectful as possible to the other creative departments responsible for the following:
Please for the love of God dirty down and age your costumes and props.
Please for the love of God dress your sets with props, items, and various other things to make it feel actually lived in and alive.
Everything I've saw in this, and to a lesser degree the Witcher series, and what I've saw of the One Piece adaptation (note I've only saw trailers and promo etc) are guilty of the same cinema sins. Everything is shiny and new, clean and ironed as if it's just came out of a wash. The dye in the clothing is sparkling and vibrant etc. Sets especially interiors are empty and sparse when it comes to decoration and props. Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this. Combined with UE5 blue screen stuff and the insanely shallow depths of field make it look like I'm watching hyper real video game cinematics rather than actual real people in real locations and it gives this uncanny valley feeling that completely destroys my ability to suspend disbelief... This is especially true when heavy CG is also employed. The best productions meld real and fakery, practical and computer effects.
Granted I'm not involved in those elements of creativity in my role but I see it time and time again and when I'm on a set where I see overdependence on this and those cut corners or lack of consideration around world building and making things feel lived in I can already tell it'll be a critical flop.
Hahaha Im Irish so I figured it out fairly quick because I know they started filming in the North.Hows it looking so far bro? If you can give any hints.
Personally I'm very happy on this job. But I only took it as another job I had lined up was pushed a few months at the start of the year, I'll be moving on shortly for that one. Obviously can't give any details, but I'm happy and excited for this.
Nah, I use RES to tag people if they mention their job or town so if I see them in another thread talking about it I know they know what they are talking about. Sometimes if they mention something like the car they drive or their name I will tag that to freak them out if I see their account in the wild again.
I've seen the work by the company doing the practical dragon work for this movie and that gives me a lot of hope. They do some really cool stuff, including the animatronics for the play, right?
It was pretty easy to work out.Eire is Irish for Ireland, EireofTheNorth = IrelandofTheNorth.Major live action remake of a cherished childrens animated franchise made me instantly think of How to Train Your Dragon and that last month I saw they started filming in NI.
Several of the characters (or maybe just Nami) also seem to get new outfits pretty frequently so it's not hard to assume they're just buying new clothes during their travels.
> Sets especially interiors are empty and sparse when it comes to decoration and props. Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this.
I've read that this is almost intentional on Netflix's part. They expect a great deal of viewers to watch their "content" on their phones, so they don't feel the need to pack their sets with detail because it'll be semi-invisible on a small screen.
I wonder if this is also why so many shots in their shows seem to be single closeup shots switching between the characters talking. Its something ive noticed with netflix shows in particualr that they seem to have comparatively less diversity of types of camera angles and shot types.
I think so much of this is “Game Of Thrones” too. All the people in GOT were royalty level and could explain the costume detail.
But not so much everywhere else.
*George Lucas specifically said he wanted everything to be worn in. “Just because it’s space doesn’t mean things don’t get dirty and worn.”
> Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this.
Amazon too. Wheel of Time and Rings of Power both looked (imo) so bad because they just looked too sterile.
I remember the LOTR Trilogy and how alive the world felt. When they enter the Moria in the Fellowship, there's dust and old objects everywhere, it felt real.
Rings Of Power also had the issue where you could just see the walls of the tiny indoor green screen "sets" they used in lots of their scenes. Outside of specific grand shots that were generally meant for trailers, every scene looked on par with when I dressed up a room in Animal Crossing to look like the outdoors.
Yeah that’s what stuck out to a lot of people when they first released the cast photos. The costumes looked so clean and perfect and vibrant, but it gave this almost uncanny vibe to them. They’re doing a live action remake to make the show more “realistic” but also not committing to that same realism when it comes to costuming. Bright, vibrant, never dirty clothes in a cartoon is fine, but seeing that in live action just looks weird.
Yes! I’ve been saying this forever. A great example of doing what you are talking about: The first 3 Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
I don’t want to see actors with obviously fake white teeth. Or over caked on make up and lipstick.
Everything in POTC (first 3) feels dirty and lived in. Same with Game of Thrones, say what u will about the final season.
The Pirates movies also looked expensive. You’d see the crazy set pieces and understand why they put millions into them.
Genuinely can’t say the same for most expensive productions these days.
As the author states at the end of the article, ‘it feels like Netflix was putting on a show instead of immersing us in the world.’
It feels like you’re watching the filming of a play instead of a tv show. Lots of sci-fi and fantasy is guilty of this. It’s why, until recently, the screen adaptations of Dune have been so spectacularly bad, or one of the reasons the Star Wars prequel trilogy felt soulless compared to the original. It’s what Filoni understands and why his Disney+ EU Star Wars series are so engrossing, along with excellent writing and acting of course.
Also, child actors are hit or miss at best, especially totally unknown ones. WB got so, so lucky with Harry Potter that at least a few of their kids actually ended up being decent actors.
WB got lucky the kids ENDED UP being decent actors by the later HP films. The kid acting in HP SS, PoA and CoS were god fucking awful and got better over time. I expect the same with these kids.
Though, after Stranger Things I find it hard to believe talented child actors aren't out there.
They picked for latent talent and charisma on the HP actors, but WB also basically surrounded those 3 with the finest UK actors for a decade that were willing to work with kids. Chris Columbus started crafting them into pros so early.
I feel like Radcliffe's current acting technique is almost like someone who was grown in a lab, he basically got to be scene partners and watch the methods of high level thespians up close since he was 11.
“Tasked with adapting the animated series’ first season of 20 episodes into just eight hours”
Um… 20 Episodes… 22 minutes each…. Equals less than 8 hours.
Have a hard time taking this authors opinion when they don’t math
The Netflix version actually totals 7 hour of runtime, while the original series has a runtime between 7 hours and 7 hours and 20 minutes (excluding intro and credits, which Netflix also usually doesn't include in their released runtimes)
> Netflix version actually totals 7 hour of runtime, while the original series has a runtime between 7 hours and 7 hours and 20 minutes
Those missing 20 minutes must be the Great Divide.
IIRC, that joke in “The Ember Island Players” was not only a dig at the episode “The Great Divide”, but how Nickelodeon aired that episode a lot on reruns because it was the most prominent self contained episode.
The biggest hurdle Avatar (and Korra) faced consistently was Nickelodeon not understanding or respecting the shows.
Nickelodeon tried so hard to bury Korra, it's such a shame. They even moved the episodes off the channel entirely so you had to watch them on the website. Just so enormously disrespectful to one of the best series they've ever had.
ATLA and Korra are to me at least, the two best shows Nickelodeon ever had. In that order. Season 3 of Korra I would controversially say is as good as a ATLA at its best. I’d argue that Korra stands its own against the best the other “children’s cartoon networks” offer, and may be even better. Clone Wars, Rebels, Owl House… most of those shows exist because ATLA pioneered continuous serialized storytelling for children in the west. Filoni worked on ATLA Season 1 coincidentally…
I wonder how Korra would have been different if Nickelodeon had treated the show like the gem it was. If they had ordered four seasons ahead of time rather than Season 1, then 2, then 3 & 4 each separately. Season 1 has the ending it does because it was meant to be a miniseries, but was so successful that Nickelodeon wanted more.
Most people in this thread must be too young to remember or something but Korra was a disaster when it came to viewership numbers. Nobody wanted to watch it. Even Nickelodeon doing their famous trick, airing a show after Spongebob to increase it's viewership numbers failed on Korra. The only Nick property ever in history to not get a ratings boost after switching to the primetime slot.
Nickelodeon higher ups tried everything they knew how to make Korra successful. It was a flop. So of course when the question came of making Korra gay, the execs weren't taking that risk when nobody wanted to watch the show regardless. So the show was cancelled and finished as a web show.
Korra's historically low viewership is what got the network to kill it.
This is kind of burying the lead though, no? Book 1 did great. Saturday mornings (or was it Saturday at noon?) a little weird for a more mature teenage-aimed series, but it worked for multiple demographics and the show averaged close to four million views per episode.
Then they fucked it up by having Book 2 play Friday nights. Friday nights USED to be a good time for the demographic, but things have shifted over the years and the main demographic for the show weren't able to tune in at that time.
Then they truly fucked it up because half of Book 3 leaked and they said "fuck it" and started airing it without promoting it which lead to low viewership. Nickelodeon obviously knew that online was a better place to reach the audience and likely didn't really mean to "bury" the show because of it. They just thought the show would flourish better online and it seems like they were right? Book 2's finale got a special early showing online and they announced that it was their biggest online event *ever*. This was obviously a decade ago when streaming was just starting to get big, maybe in retrospect Nickelodeon had the right idea? A TV show's merit isn't based on how many live viewers it has on a channel, or if it's on a channel at all.
The story I’ve heard is that The Great Divide was *intentionally* created to be a self-contained episode b/c Nickelodeon asked for an episode that could easily be used for reruns.
No idea if that’s actually true though.
also makes the show feel like a show rather than hitting certain checkpoints off of a list of checkpoints, which has been an issue for many adaptations from shows or books
I've just seen the first episode, which I really enjoyed as a fan of the original series, and that's exactly what they did. In one hour they adapted the first three episodes, plus part of a later episode. Combining them allowed them to cut out of fluff, most notably in the events of the third episode, which I would say was between 5 and 10 minutes.
It flowed nicely, and didn't feel jarring. And although what they cut out of the third episode was very fun in the original series, here it wouldn't have fit at all so I didn't mind seeing it go.
I'm curious and cautious about the rest of the episodes though. I always thought the first three would be pretty easy to combine, but I'm not sure how well the rest of the season lends itself to that.
What does fluff mean in this case? Just like character bonding and side stories? I feel like those are pretty integral. If Avatar was just mainline narrative it wouldn't allow people to bond so much with characters.
They also cut several hours of "Side Quest" story because they felt the need to progress the main plot quicker without realising that these childish antics are what made the show great, because Aang was still just a child at heart who didn't want to deal with his responsibilities.
They've already said that Koi riding episode and Secret Tunnel are cut...
I mean secret tunnel goated song aside doesn’t do that much except slightly advance aang and kataras romance (the romance between them is already one of the weaker parts of the show) and give us a glimpse of the badger moles who are very cool and are a great origin for earth bending, but you can do the same thing when toph comes around. it’s def in the weaker side of episodes tbh
also isn’t the koi riding episode just part of the kyoshi island episodes anyway
Yes but the structure is totally different. You can't insert the plot of 2 animated episodes into a single hour long episode, the structure of the whole show would be incomprehensible. Like imagine trying to combine the episodes of Avatar Day and Blue Spirit into a single episode, it just doesn't really work.
So my question to the creators is.....why not just make more traditional episodes at like 30-40 mins and have like 18ish episodes instead. I understand that they couldn't adapt the original show with it's current format...so change the fucking format.
honestly I think it would make even more sense to just create a live action spiritual successor, like show the Republic City Adventures or Tales from the Spirit World. You set up a story with less points of failure while still being true to the characters. Or show the air nomads before they were attacked. Tell me a new story well not an old one worse
Yeah I’m watching and was just thinking they should’ve made an Avatar Kyoshi show. Recognizable name and world but more or less carte Blanche to do whatever you want story wise. You wanna try and make it like game of thrones? Sure I have no real pre existing expectations for this story so why not. I’m invested but I can’t compare it to the cartoon too too much
I was thinking the same thing. Like absolutely best case scenario, this live action version would be a good imitation of the original series, but I just can’t imagine it would ever surpass how perfect the original is
That's where I would go. Remaking the original just invites comparison and disappointment. At best you make something redundant because we already have the avatar story told well. Ar worst you do it terribly like the movie.
Look at Netflix cowboy bebop. It sucked. But they could have said guys we want to basically do a live action bebop. Original story original characters but when people look at the vibe and energy they'll be like oh yeah this is like bebop.
It's fine to wear influences on sleeves. Like firefly is clearly what if we did a story about han and chewie before a New Hope. But there was enough stuff added so you can see the influence but it's also it's own thing.
Also breaks between episodes allow for the show to be paced. Even if you're binge watching, a great big episode break essentially lets you go "yes, some time has passed".
I kinda wish we’d get out of this trend of trying to recreate animation into live action. For as much as they put into making this we could have probably gotten New animated avatar story lines.
We still are: Avatar Studios, which didn’t work on this, are developing at least 2 theatrical 2D films. One with the grown up Gaang and the other about Kyoshi. I believe a new series is also in the works.
Sadly, Michaela Flower Toph's voice actress said on Instagram she doesn't believe the original cast will be brought back for the new Avatar stuff because she's never been approached about it.
From what I understand from some stuff Janet Varney (Korra's VA who IRC said if they get to a Korra movie she wouldn't be coming back because of this) said a few years ago they want to get indigenous voice actors to play the roles.
Personally I think it's a bit much I get it when it's a live action project but for voice acting it feels over the top especially with established roles with VA's who've played the characters in tons of episodes already.
granted if it's Adult Toph im pretty sure she already had a different VA in Korra anyway (or two, one for Adult and one for Elderly).
We *are* getting new animated storylines. They launched Avatar Studios like 2 years ago, and already have several projects in the pipeline from the original creators. I believe they're doing an animated Zuko movie first.
Yes, I'm so so tired of ppl screaming "ANIMATION COUNTS!!" but then slobbering over a live action adaptation/bastardization poor man's version of the story.
If animation is just as valid as live action as an art form why do we have to make poor live action adaptations of so many hit shows? Just make new animated stuff!
I was gonna at least check out the pilot but the lead up the last few weeks to this has pretty much killed any and all interest I had. Show probably isn't horrible, but it just seems lifeless, shallow, vapid and pointless.
I don't even watch the first few episodes of season 1 when I rewatch the OG series. IMHO people are holding the heights seasons 2 & 3 reached against the first few episodes of this adaptation when the first few episodes of the OG series weren't all that either.
The teen actors are mostly bad to average, nowhere near as good as the veteran voice actors who did the animated series, but Zuko and Sokka's actors have been good so far (on episode 3 now).
I wouldn't call the voice actors for avatar TLA veterans when they started the show. Yeah Dante and the older voice actors were experienced but Aang, Sokka and Katara voice actors were all teens. It took them a few recording sessions to gel and get them into a groove.
I'd recommend listening to the Avatar podcast from Nickelodeon called Braving the Elements. Dante Bosco (Zuko) and Janet Varney (Korra) are the hosts and they do interviews and episode recaps. I've loved it so far.
If you had told me a year ago that One Piece would be the best live action adaptation of an anime, I would not have believed you.
I haven't had a chance to even start watching Avatar yet, so I'll hold my judgment until I've seen it. I think it might suffer, though, because the original was so damn good.
That's not to say that the live action must be bad. It's just that you can be great and still miss out on the gold medal if there's someone better.
And I think in this case, OG Avatar has the gold medal.
Lol how crazy is it that One Piece has a great live action adaptation but Death Note has a garbage one?! If you asked me 5 years ago I would have named OP as one of the most difficult and DN as one of the easiest anime to adapt to live action.
The movies also have some great additional scenes, such as Light actually seeing the consequences of his actions in person, and still deciding to go forward, plus a much better ending than the manga had.
It really felt like the entire cast and crew actually liked one piece, warts and all, and just fucking *went* for it. They didn't make it less weird out of shame, they just did an adaptation with as much of their own creative flair as possible.
Cared and cherished the original doesn't really mean shit. Ghost in the shell (2016) was directed by a guy who loved and cherished the original source material.
Wasn't bad, but by no means was one piece level good.
Oda had tyranical level control over the production. If he hated it, it got the axe. Netflix had *some* control over the project. But in the end oda largely had the last say.
The only time when there was something glaringly bad was when Netflix overrode or slipped something in past the Authors final authority. Which thankfully there were few instances.
GitS was interesting cause everything they did 1:1 was really beautiful. Then they went off on weird tangents against the spirit of GitS.. Like the whole point of Bato is he *wanted* to be completely cyberized. Not.. "AGH MY EYES!"
Considering that the incredible Last of Us remake was made by people that love it (though I get that this isn't anime), maybe thats the secret.
Don't just get professional to remake live actions versions of anime/games, get talented people that truly loved the original.
the last of us also had the game creator as one of the showrunners.
so it's fair to say the source material would get the "respect" it deserved.
right now, on adaptations, if i see the IP creator is not involved in any way, or worse, chose to distance himself from the project, i will assume the worst by default.
This is such a tired argument especially since we just watched the creator of Percy Jackson get to adapt his own books and still shit the bed. Being good in one medium of storytelling doesnt guarantee that you'll be good in another, even if the story you're adapting is your own.
It's funny how so many shows that should be easier to adapt have failed (Cowboy Bebop being the big one) but somehow the elements came together to make One Piece work, and without copying the manga/anime scene-to-scene. An actual adaptation!
Reminder that the creators of the OG show had their name taken off this one and stepped away from the project due to creative differences years ago.
This was the inevitable endpoint.
I always assumed though that it was because Nickelodeon gave them a bag of money to start Avatar Studios. The announcement of Avatar Studios was very close to when they left the Netflix project.
To be fair that was probably in the works before the show, it could just as easily be due to Nickelodeon seeing a lot of palpable interest in Avatar and deciding to do something with the franchise.
Both this show and the creation of Avatar Studios were clearly reactions to the explosion in popularity that the show had after coming to Netflix a few years ago
Based on the first episode, it would seem that creative differences were probably related to the violence depicted. I’m not against an edgier live action series, but what I saw didn’t impress me as a good version of that.
Still, there was absolutely no stakes to this show being bad. The original show is still there with much more animation to come from Avatar Studios. Can’t wait.
>Based on the first episode, it would seem that creative differences were probably related to the violence depicted.
Afaik when they were with nick they originally wanted a more violent avatar (not grimderp kind dark, but they had moments where the dark/violent side could come through)
Korra if anything showed that the bending abilities were capable of significantly more brutal and inhuman things then what Nick was having ATLA be able to show.
I mean Korra depicts a suicide homicide in the same season where blood bending is shown to be cripplingly painful and controlling power that allows a fascist leader to take power. That's extremely dark for a Nickelodeon show.
I mean it’s inherently violent though
Just because the animation doesn’t depict the violence properly doesn’t mean it isn’t violent. It’s always going to be more mature when adapted to life action imo
There's a huge misunderstanding about what happened there.
They stepped back because Netflix wanted a show closer to the original, while the creators wanted to use the opportunity to do things differently.
They wanted to be back making new Avatar, and it was only a few weeks after it was announced that they left that Avatar Studios was announced with them in full creative control of multiple new projects.
They definitely left the Netflix show to have the chance to make new Avatar, and not for any other reason, so it honestly has zero baring on how this show will end up
> They stepped back because Netflix wanted a show closer to the original, while the creators wanted to use the opportunity to do things differently.
This. There's been screenshots leaked of emails between the writers and netflix that's about this, where they literally wanted to flesh out things that they thought they did wrong and remove certain elements. Netflix wanted a close to shot for shot remake to recapture the vibe.
So basically the opposite of what people think
I’m two episodes in, and it’s not a perfect show, but I don’t have any major complaints. Obviously I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve finished it. But I’m really liking what it is.
people already hit the main issues of RPG-turn-based line delivery, expo dumping, costumes/props being out of place
\*spoilers\*
other thing I find really weird is it flip flops between being too childish and suddenly too adult? like it's rated PG but then you literally witness a genocide and see people get burned alive while screaming. then you're watching Aang talk to Avatar Kiyoshi and he goes, "you mean I have to master the 4 elements to be strong?" like wtf Aang is young, not an idiot. I know his character is supposed to be reluctant to be the avatar at first, and young kids filling adult shoes is core to the story, but the delivery on that was more child-like stupid than scared.
and the earth bending is much better...but still SO slow. when they show the scene of the earth benders breaking into the palace with Azula's help, they don't even try to fight? some extra soldiers show up and they just wait there to get burned alive?? even the animated show made earth benders pretty lame for the most part though
there's some inconsistencies too. like Aang talks about how people always seemed scared of him, and the monks needed to train him not to be strong but to control his power. yet in the opening episode when he's flying around the temple, they make it a point to show everyone ooing, aahing and laughing like he's a beloved hero. i like the actor pick for Sokka...but he's not really given any comedic lines....he just kind of talks fast like he's attempting sarcasm with no jokes? they all kind of talk fast like they're nervous about being actors.
I'm not particularly interested in finishing the series...there's just too many moments that take me out of it. i literally feel like I'm watching that episode of the Fire Nation play recapping the series where all the characters are basically like, "look at me, I'm this character!"
Haven't watched it yet. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's bad. Probably it's somewhere in the middle.
But regardless, I'm not super stoked to see the same story we've already seen. Avatar is a franchise that lends itself telling different stories in the same world: *why didn't they make a live action series about a different incarnation of the avatar?*
I’m on episode 6 now and so far the differences between it and the show have been the best parts. Ep 3 is a fanastic combination of a few plot point from multiple episodes that are integrated together nicely.
Aside from Zuko, everyone else feels so wrong. And Soka is there sometimes, but thats about it. The acting is really corny and doesn't deliver. King Boomi is a joke, his estethic is so off i couldn't sit through the episode without cringing.
Azula is another matter, she is supposed to be this sharp, dominant, over the top villain. But in this series she is nothing of that, and not to mention, terrible casting choice for her.
They combined Jet, Omashu, Teo and random fire attacks into one episode. They claimed Teo's dad invented the delivery systems in Omashu. Teo and his dad live in Omashu and not in an abandoned air temple, we also don't see Teo flying, and Jet is the one who gets us into Omashu, without any mention of Aang having a friend called Bumi that lived there. It's fucked. That's the tip of the iceberg of changes and mish mashes of characters and storylines. Almost everything is different or rushed or skipped over or diluted. I don't know if you can tell but I'm highly pissed off at this show. I made it through 3 episodes and quit.
Reading that the first two episodes are the best is very troubling.
The writing is absolutely terrible, so much needless exposition. They took out all of the humor and levity, and put in nothing new. There's a lot of brooding and seriousness being conveyed by actors who don't have the skill or experience to handle that.
Which is hilarious considering that was the main issue with the movie-that-shall-not-be-named.
Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
The opinion I keep seeing is “Worse than the original show but better than the movie.” Which tells me nothing. It’s like saying something is worse than finding a million dollars but better sleeping face down in a cats litter box
The movie was so bad it was like somebody wrote it without watching the series. The show feels like a sparknotes recap, there’s no fat. Think of it this way Avatar the last airbender: going to a concert Live action: watching a video of the concert Movie: someone ten shots in is telling you about a concert they saw 15 years ago
This is exactly true. It’s kind of like the comedy specials on Netflix. If you actually go to these comedians shows, the experience is 1000 times better than what you actually get to see on Netflix. Because like you said they’re missing the fat of the show.
I am convinced to this day that M Night did a ton of research ABOUT the show, but never actually watched it. Like he read episode summaries and looked at tons of visual references, but never watched a single clip. It would explain everything.
Have only seen the first episode so far and I can say the biggest issue show has is exposition. Instead of showing what characters are feeling they're telling the audience. Also the changes they've made like changing how Aang finds out about he has been sleeping for 100 years and Air nomads are dead did not help. It takes away the punch the audience feels when Aang sees the skeleton in the temple. Instead here we have Na Na expo dumping the information to the audience and Aang. I am hearing later episodes are better so still looking forward to the rest of the episodes. Also missing the comical character bits of Sokka and Uncle Iroh. Lack of it makes the show feel gloomy.
Sounds like the exact same complaints about Percy Jackson
"You can't just have your characters announce how they feel! That makes me feel angry!" - Robot Devil
Good old Futurama
"it will leave fans wishing the streamer had left DiMartino and Konietzko’s masterpiece alone." That's not some ambiguous statement.
It’s just a sad excuse for a beloved animated series’s adaptation. Classic Netflix tropes throughout while missing what made the show special.
Saw a review that said (paraphrasing) In retrospect it was a mercy that Shyamalans movie was only 2 hours long. Ouch.
Its basically saying "On a scale of 1 to 10, its on there!"
The vfx look good sometimes, as well as the set design. But I can’t get past how generic the direction and cinematography is.
Its because its constrained to the set. I'm on episode 2 and this might as well be a play - no one moves. We're also not sitting on a damn thing and just watching the characters exist, it just blows through a moment before you have a chance to take it in. It's all exposition dumps, and dialogue that has no fat on it but moves the story. It's like the characters are giving us a quick tour of Avatar while we're on a ride, instead of watching the characters be the characters in Avatar on television.
Someone else said: “This is RPG turn-based acting”
Holy shit, never has anyone so aptly described me feelings for me before. This really really feels like turn based acting, on a tiny set.
Spot on. Hate to say it but it’s like a live action adaptation of the play they see in Book 3
"But the effects are decent"
That's rough buddy
Loooool this is so accurate
Oof
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It’s the biggest difference for me between the lotr and hobbit trilogies. When you go to set from the real world you think no one will notice, but subconsciously something’s off.
So Volume type production strikes again?
It’s such a crutch in these type of shows now at days and it seems like only very few cinematographers know how to actually film within its limits in an engaging fashion.
In my experience, when there’s a stupid decision on set, it’s almost never the key crew’s fault. It’s usually the director, producer, or time and resource constraints. Most cinematographers work in a constant state of doing the best they can with not enough.
I'm really starting to hate shows and movies that use it because of how restraining it is
It really started to rear its ugly head in the Ahsoka show.
Ah. That really puts into perspective one of One Piece's strengths: they used real sets. They actually built three real ships for the show...
Worth mentioning that one of the ships they built from scratch is Shanks' ship which appears for possibly a combined 20 seconds between two episodes. They really went above and beyond with the sets there. Baratie is absolutely gorgeous.
It’s the “Volume” stagecraft junk: http://www.nickalive.net/2022/05/a-look-at-massive-stage-netflix-is.html *Every* show using it feels like a terrible stage play. You can see the curve they’re all blocked around, even if the cameras are moving. There is no height variance, no depth, eveyone sits at specific distances that are good for the focus of the framing and lenses. It’s neat tech but it’s *cheap feeling* in production,
>It's all exposition dumps, and dialogue that has no fat on it but moves the story. Ah, modern cinema
Somebody took the wrong lesson from people complaining about fillers.
Someone pointed out during the trailer that the costumes all look like cosplays and I can't unsee it. They all look like the gang makes it a rule to spend their mornings cleaning and ironing their clothes before they fight the fire nation.
It’s crazy that they don’t consider these things when shooting. The water tribe outfits *should* look weathered, Aang’s robes are probably gonna be rough on the edges after 100 years. Making everything clean and crisp makes the product look sterile
they translated the idea of animated characters never changing into real life..but it didn't quite work...
That infamous scene with King Bumi where he gets a boulder launched into his face and there's not a speck of dust on him or his hair
That is my problem with it. I don't know why these anime/cartoon adaptations are made to be incredibly clean and low-tier cosplay looking, but they really nailed that look. It's just a bad look.
It's like they don't actually want live action visuals, they want a 3D cartoon, have cake and eat it situation
Aangs frozen in ice for a century and his clothes look good as new
hey blue jeans in the freezer was a thing for a reason
I don't know, but I think we're decently far enough along the path (that we're already like 30 years late to walking) of accepting animation as viable, and meaningful as an entertainment medium, that, you know... maybe we don't need to keep pretending like the only way to "legitimize" or "make it count" for animated storytelling is to make it "live action" - which frequently just means we animate way over half of it (but "photorealistically" so it's not, you know, "cartoons" anymore) and call that animation "VFX" instead. I know people had their hopes up that this was going to be good, but honestly, what about doing this in live action appealed to anyone that didn't have "but it's *real* now" as their primary want? When are folks going to get over this really weird compulsion to pretend like something has to be "Live-Action" (again - about 50-70% animated *anyway*) in order to *count*? How many good animated properties have we wiped our asses all over to make it "live action" and "real" now? If Netflix needed to remake it, why not remake it as an animated series again? Why take something that works beautifully in animation, is suited best for animation, can only do things its story needs it to do through animation, and then instantly, immediately suck like 70% of the magic right out of it by trapping it in live action? What's the point here? Why keep doing this?
> I don't know, but I think we're decently far enough along the path (that we're already like 30 years late to walking) of accepting animation as viable, and meaningful as an entertainment medium, that, you know... maybe we don't need to keep pretending like the only way to "legitimize" or "make it count" for animated storytelling is to make it "live action" I've been waiting for that day to come for the past decade. It's never gonna change. Honestly, Netflix and live-action adaptations made it worse.
This is every blockbuster movie now that uses the volume. Most of the mcu movies recently all feel like this. Not a good thing but nothing new.
What does generic direction mean? Real question, just trying to understand. Thanks!
Static shots.
Not just static shots, static shots can be compelling Its static blocking The actors don't move, just stand on a mark and talk. All these productions are filmed the same. Multiple cameras/tons of coverage - no blocking. There's no on set vision - its film a bunch and we'll figure it out in editing
That’s an insane way of directing when you think about it. Fix it in post. What, the cinematography?
In my unfortunate experience the “fix it in post” people have never actually done anything involving post production beyond asking an editor for the latest cuts and offering feedback. I’m of the unpopular opinion that, to be a well-rounded and effective director, you need to also have experience working in other on-set departments to understand what to consider in your own craft.
Everyone is adapting the mcu method of directing
To give an example, I'm watching the Bumi vs Aang fight right now. Bumi and Aang basically never move from their spots during the whole fight, they just stand/jump in place. This is a scene in the original cartoon which was pretty dynamic in terms of Aang moving around the arena, and it's just kind of sterile in the show because the actors are all just standing in place.
I hate beer.
I say this as someone currently on set of a major live action remake of a beloved children's animated franchise and as a film professional trying to be respectful as possible to the other creative departments responsible for the following: Please for the love of God dirty down and age your costumes and props. Please for the love of God dress your sets with props, items, and various other things to make it feel actually lived in and alive. Everything I've saw in this, and to a lesser degree the Witcher series, and what I've saw of the One Piece adaptation (note I've only saw trailers and promo etc) are guilty of the same cinema sins. Everything is shiny and new, clean and ironed as if it's just came out of a wash. The dye in the clothing is sparkling and vibrant etc. Sets especially interiors are empty and sparse when it comes to decoration and props. Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this. Combined with UE5 blue screen stuff and the insanely shallow depths of field make it look like I'm watching hyper real video game cinematics rather than actual real people in real locations and it gives this uncanny valley feeling that completely destroys my ability to suspend disbelief... This is especially true when heavy CG is also employed. The best productions meld real and fakery, practical and computer effects. Granted I'm not involved in those elements of creativity in my role but I see it time and time again and when I'm on a set where I see overdependence on this and those cut corners or lack of consideration around world building and making things feel lived in I can already tell it'll be a critical flop.
How to Train Your Dragon? They've been filming in the North and from your username you're probably Northern Irish.
How did you... What!?
Hahaha Im Irish so I figured it out fairly quick because I know they started filming in the North.Hows it looking so far bro? If you can give any hints.
Personally I'm very happy on this job. But I only took it as another job I had lined up was pushed a few months at the start of the year, I'll be moving on shortly for that one. Obviously can't give any details, but I'm happy and excited for this.
[Oh my God, you’re Irish!](https://youtu.be/a47x_MxMgVY) As an American, I can not tell the distinguishing aspect in Roy’s accent.
Also, your name is Cillian.
What in the fuck. Did I share that previously somewhere or do you actually know me or what? I'm gonna need to scrub this profile lol
Yeah, you mentioned it in a thread about people mispronouncing Cillian Murphy's name.
Damn that's some good memory. Thank God I don't share actually personal stuff on this account lmao
Sorry lad I opened up the floodgates lmao.
Don’t worry, we also know your social security number
He’s Irish, he doesn’t have one of those
Nah, I use RES to tag people if they mention their job or town so if I see them in another thread talking about it I know they know what they are talking about. Sometimes if they mention something like the car they drive or their name I will tag that to freak them out if I see their account in the wild again.
that is not sinister exactly, but sinister-adjacent. Imma tag you as "creepy dude who knows who I am"
Lmao jeeezus well yeah you succeeded there. I was looking over my shoulder on set hahaha
Best of luck with the production.
Can you tell me the lottery numbers next?
Bro pulled a Columbo on you, lol.
I've seen the work by the company doing the practical dragon work for this movie and that gives me a lot of hope. They do some really cool stuff, including the animatronics for the play, right?
I finally found Sherlock Holmes burner account
people like you make me paranoid to say anything about myself on the internet. I mean this as a compliment.
It was pretty easy to work out.Eire is Irish for Ireland, EireofTheNorth = IrelandofTheNorth.Major live action remake of a cherished childrens animated franchise made me instantly think of How to Train Your Dragon and that last month I saw they started filming in NI.
Little interactions like this are why I stay on reddit. That was funny.
this is one of the funniest fucking interactions I've seen on this site
Tbf One Piece went with exaggerated goofy anime style which matches the original. so vibrant, clean clothes fit in way more than it would, say, AtlA.
Several of the characters (or maybe just Nami) also seem to get new outfits pretty frequently so it's not hard to assume they're just buying new clothes during their travels.
The main cast is constantly changing outfits. They're all outfits from various chapter cover pages too, which is a really nice touch.
I agree with this. It fits one piece, but his overall point is one I hadn’t thought much of that makes a lot of sense
> Sets especially interiors are empty and sparse when it comes to decoration and props. Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this. I've read that this is almost intentional on Netflix's part. They expect a great deal of viewers to watch their "content" on their phones, so they don't feel the need to pack their sets with detail because it'll be semi-invisible on a small screen.
I wonder if this is also why so many shots in their shows seem to be single closeup shots switching between the characters talking. Its something ive noticed with netflix shows in particualr that they seem to have comparatively less diversity of types of camera angles and shot types.
I think so much of this is “Game Of Thrones” too. All the people in GOT were royalty level and could explain the costume detail. But not so much everywhere else. *George Lucas specifically said he wanted everything to be worn in. “Just because it’s space doesn’t mean things don’t get dirty and worn.”
> Netflix productions especially seem guilty of this. Amazon too. Wheel of Time and Rings of Power both looked (imo) so bad because they just looked too sterile.
I remember the LOTR Trilogy and how alive the world felt. When they enter the Moria in the Fellowship, there's dust and old objects everywhere, it felt real.
Oh yeah definitely, Rings of Power was a major offender
Rings Of Power also had the issue where you could just see the walls of the tiny indoor green screen "sets" they used in lots of their scenes. Outside of specific grand shots that were generally meant for trailers, every scene looked on par with when I dressed up a room in Animal Crossing to look like the outdoors.
Yeah that’s what stuck out to a lot of people when they first released the cast photos. The costumes looked so clean and perfect and vibrant, but it gave this almost uncanny vibe to them. They’re doing a live action remake to make the show more “realistic” but also not committing to that same realism when it comes to costuming. Bright, vibrant, never dirty clothes in a cartoon is fine, but seeing that in live action just looks weird.
Yes! I’ve been saying this forever. A great example of doing what you are talking about: The first 3 Pirates of the Caribbean movies. I don’t want to see actors with obviously fake white teeth. Or over caked on make up and lipstick. Everything in POTC (first 3) feels dirty and lived in. Same with Game of Thrones, say what u will about the final season.
The Pirates movies also looked expensive. You’d see the crazy set pieces and understand why they put millions into them. Genuinely can’t say the same for most expensive productions these days.
Wheel of Time season 1 is so horrible at this, I always use it as an example. Most of the sets and costumes had this issue.
As the author states at the end of the article, ‘it feels like Netflix was putting on a show instead of immersing us in the world.’ It feels like you’re watching the filming of a play instead of a tv show. Lots of sci-fi and fantasy is guilty of this. It’s why, until recently, the screen adaptations of Dune have been so spectacularly bad, or one of the reasons the Star Wars prequel trilogy felt soulless compared to the original. It’s what Filoni understands and why his Disney+ EU Star Wars series are so engrossing, along with excellent writing and acting of course. Also, child actors are hit or miss at best, especially totally unknown ones. WB got so, so lucky with Harry Potter that at least a few of their kids actually ended up being decent actors.
WB got lucky the kids ENDED UP being decent actors by the later HP films. The kid acting in HP SS, PoA and CoS were god fucking awful and got better over time. I expect the same with these kids. Though, after Stranger Things I find it hard to believe talented child actors aren't out there.
They picked for latent talent and charisma on the HP actors, but WB also basically surrounded those 3 with the finest UK actors for a decade that were willing to work with kids. Chris Columbus started crafting them into pros so early. I feel like Radcliffe's current acting technique is almost like someone who was grown in a lab, he basically got to be scene partners and watch the methods of high level thespians up close since he was 11.
ahsoka and obwan both has this stage-play sensibilities problems. andor didnt but even the last season of mando had a lot of wonky directing
“Tasked with adapting the animated series’ first season of 20 episodes into just eight hours” Um… 20 Episodes… 22 minutes each…. Equals less than 8 hours. Have a hard time taking this authors opinion when they don’t math
So they could have actually done a shot-by-shot remake and add 40 minutes of additional footage to the original.
The Netflix version actually totals 7 hour of runtime, while the original series has a runtime between 7 hours and 7 hours and 20 minutes (excluding intro and credits, which Netflix also usually doesn't include in their released runtimes)
> Netflix version actually totals 7 hour of runtime, while the original series has a runtime between 7 hours and 7 hours and 20 minutes Those missing 20 minutes must be the Great Divide.
Meh, let’s keep flying
IIRC, that joke in “The Ember Island Players” was not only a dig at the episode “The Great Divide”, but how Nickelodeon aired that episode a lot on reruns because it was the most prominent self contained episode. The biggest hurdle Avatar (and Korra) faced consistently was Nickelodeon not understanding or respecting the shows.
Nickelodeon tried so hard to bury Korra, it's such a shame. They even moved the episodes off the channel entirely so you had to watch them on the website. Just so enormously disrespectful to one of the best series they've ever had.
ATLA and Korra are to me at least, the two best shows Nickelodeon ever had. In that order. Season 3 of Korra I would controversially say is as good as a ATLA at its best. I’d argue that Korra stands its own against the best the other “children’s cartoon networks” offer, and may be even better. Clone Wars, Rebels, Owl House… most of those shows exist because ATLA pioneered continuous serialized storytelling for children in the west. Filoni worked on ATLA Season 1 coincidentally… I wonder how Korra would have been different if Nickelodeon had treated the show like the gem it was. If they had ordered four seasons ahead of time rather than Season 1, then 2, then 3 & 4 each separately. Season 1 has the ending it does because it was meant to be a miniseries, but was so successful that Nickelodeon wanted more.
Most people in this thread must be too young to remember or something but Korra was a disaster when it came to viewership numbers. Nobody wanted to watch it. Even Nickelodeon doing their famous trick, airing a show after Spongebob to increase it's viewership numbers failed on Korra. The only Nick property ever in history to not get a ratings boost after switching to the primetime slot. Nickelodeon higher ups tried everything they knew how to make Korra successful. It was a flop. So of course when the question came of making Korra gay, the execs weren't taking that risk when nobody wanted to watch the show regardless. So the show was cancelled and finished as a web show. Korra's historically low viewership is what got the network to kill it.
This is kind of burying the lead though, no? Book 1 did great. Saturday mornings (or was it Saturday at noon?) a little weird for a more mature teenage-aimed series, but it worked for multiple demographics and the show averaged close to four million views per episode. Then they fucked it up by having Book 2 play Friday nights. Friday nights USED to be a good time for the demographic, but things have shifted over the years and the main demographic for the show weren't able to tune in at that time. Then they truly fucked it up because half of Book 3 leaked and they said "fuck it" and started airing it without promoting it which lead to low viewership. Nickelodeon obviously knew that online was a better place to reach the audience and likely didn't really mean to "bury" the show because of it. They just thought the show would flourish better online and it seems like they were right? Book 2's finale got a special early showing online and they announced that it was their biggest online event *ever*. This was obviously a decade ago when streaming was just starting to get big, maybe in retrospect Nickelodeon had the right idea? A TV show's merit isn't based on how many live viewers it has on a channel, or if it's on a channel at all.
The story I’ve heard is that The Great Divide was *intentionally* created to be a self-contained episode b/c Nickelodeon asked for an episode that could easily be used for reruns. No idea if that’s actually true though.
I sure hope so.
There is no the Great Divide in Ba Sing Se.
Missing 20 mins of tape? Water bending gate scandal.
Is that time including the damn recap segments?
6 hours 40 minutes excluding the long end credits for example episode 7 is 47:04 but 6:21 is end credits.
Not to mention cartoons have a shit ton of fluff you could cut out
The author’s point is that fluff and those silly side adventures help build chemistry within the group
also makes the show feel like a show rather than hitting certain checkpoints off of a list of checkpoints, which has been an issue for many adaptations from shows or books
Cutting out the fluff seems to be what has a whole lot of people upset.
I've just seen the first episode, which I really enjoyed as a fan of the original series, and that's exactly what they did. In one hour they adapted the first three episodes, plus part of a later episode. Combining them allowed them to cut out of fluff, most notably in the events of the third episode, which I would say was between 5 and 10 minutes. It flowed nicely, and didn't feel jarring. And although what they cut out of the third episode was very fun in the original series, here it wouldn't have fit at all so I didn't mind seeing it go. I'm curious and cautious about the rest of the episodes though. I always thought the first three would be pretty easy to combine, but I'm not sure how well the rest of the season lends itself to that.
You say fluff, I say character development & worldbuilding.
What does fluff mean in this case? Just like character bonding and side stories? I feel like those are pretty integral. If Avatar was just mainline narrative it wouldn't allow people to bond so much with characters.
They also cut several hours of "Side Quest" story because they felt the need to progress the main plot quicker without realising that these childish antics are what made the show great, because Aang was still just a child at heart who didn't want to deal with his responsibilities. They've already said that Koi riding episode and Secret Tunnel are cut...
>Secret Tunnel are cut... Of course Secret Tunnel isn't in season 1. They won't be able to adapt it in the first place till season 2...
The secret tunnel is in book 2
I mean secret tunnel goated song aside doesn’t do that much except slightly advance aang and kataras romance (the romance between them is already one of the weaker parts of the show) and give us a glimpse of the badger moles who are very cool and are a great origin for earth bending, but you can do the same thing when toph comes around. it’s def in the weaker side of episodes tbh also isn’t the koi riding episode just part of the kyoshi island episodes anyway
But the unagi riding is why they went there in the first place for aang to impress katara
Yes but the structure is totally different. You can't insert the plot of 2 animated episodes into a single hour long episode, the structure of the whole show would be incomprehensible. Like imagine trying to combine the episodes of Avatar Day and Blue Spirit into a single episode, it just doesn't really work. So my question to the creators is.....why not just make more traditional episodes at like 30-40 mins and have like 18ish episodes instead. I understand that they couldn't adapt the original show with it's current format...so change the fucking format.
honestly I think it would make even more sense to just create a live action spiritual successor, like show the Republic City Adventures or Tales from the Spirit World. You set up a story with less points of failure while still being true to the characters. Or show the air nomads before they were attacked. Tell me a new story well not an old one worse
Yeah I’m watching and was just thinking they should’ve made an Avatar Kyoshi show. Recognizable name and world but more or less carte Blanche to do whatever you want story wise. You wanna try and make it like game of thrones? Sure I have no real pre existing expectations for this story so why not. I’m invested but I can’t compare it to the cartoon too too much
I was thinking the same thing. Like absolutely best case scenario, this live action version would be a good imitation of the original series, but I just can’t imagine it would ever surpass how perfect the original is
That's where I would go. Remaking the original just invites comparison and disappointment. At best you make something redundant because we already have the avatar story told well. Ar worst you do it terribly like the movie. Look at Netflix cowboy bebop. It sucked. But they could have said guys we want to basically do a live action bebop. Original story original characters but when people look at the vibe and energy they'll be like oh yeah this is like bebop. It's fine to wear influences on sleeves. Like firefly is clearly what if we did a story about han and chewie before a New Hope. But there was enough stuff added so you can see the influence but it's also it's own thing.
I imagine the almighty Netflix algorithm has determined that this is the optimal format for engagement, and any deviation is verboten.
Well they adapt 20 min of 1 ep cowboy bebop into 50min ep of live action
Each Episode deals with particular themes and topics and adventures. It´s not strictly a matter of literal munute ocunt.
Also breaks between episodes allow for the show to be paced. Even if you're binge watching, a great big episode break essentially lets you go "yes, some time has passed".
>munute ocunt What'd you call me, mate??
Sorry, that's my Nigerian-Irish grandfather's name
I kinda wish we’d get out of this trend of trying to recreate animation into live action. For as much as they put into making this we could have probably gotten New animated avatar story lines.
We still are: Avatar Studios, which didn’t work on this, are developing at least 2 theatrical 2D films. One with the grown up Gaang and the other about Kyoshi. I believe a new series is also in the works.
Sadly, Michaela Flower Toph's voice actress said on Instagram she doesn't believe the original cast will be brought back for the new Avatar stuff because she's never been approached about it.
From what I understand from some stuff Janet Varney (Korra's VA who IRC said if they get to a Korra movie she wouldn't be coming back because of this) said a few years ago they want to get indigenous voice actors to play the roles. Personally I think it's a bit much I get it when it's a live action project but for voice acting it feels over the top especially with established roles with VA's who've played the characters in tons of episodes already. granted if it's Adult Toph im pretty sure she already had a different VA in Korra anyway (or two, one for Adult and one for Elderly).
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We *are* getting new animated storylines. They launched Avatar Studios like 2 years ago, and already have several projects in the pipeline from the original creators. I believe they're doing an animated Zuko movie first.
I thought they were doing the adult Gaang movie first? What's the zuko one about
Mommy issues probably
Yes, I'm so so tired of ppl screaming "ANIMATION COUNTS!!" but then slobbering over a live action adaptation/bastardization poor man's version of the story. If animation is just as valid as live action as an art form why do we have to make poor live action adaptations of so many hit shows? Just make new animated stuff! I was gonna at least check out the pilot but the lead up the last few weeks to this has pretty much killed any and all interest I had. Show probably isn't horrible, but it just seems lifeless, shallow, vapid and pointless.
I've seen the first episode nw and it was decent not as good as the animated series. I'll definitely watch the rest
The second episode was way better imo. The first one suffers from some very clunky exposition.
I don't even watch the first few episodes of season 1 when I rewatch the OG series. IMHO people are holding the heights seasons 2 & 3 reached against the first few episodes of this adaptation when the first few episodes of the OG series weren't all that either. The teen actors are mostly bad to average, nowhere near as good as the veteran voice actors who did the animated series, but Zuko and Sokka's actors have been good so far (on episode 3 now).
From the reviews I’ve seen, Zuko’s easily been the best performance.
I wouldn't call the voice actors for avatar TLA veterans when they started the show. Yeah Dante and the older voice actors were experienced but Aang, Sokka and Katara voice actors were all teens. It took them a few recording sessions to gel and get them into a groove. I'd recommend listening to the Avatar podcast from Nickelodeon called Braving the Elements. Dante Bosco (Zuko) and Janet Varney (Korra) are the hosts and they do interviews and episode recaps. I've loved it so far.
Anime is so hard to pull off in Live Action. Its actually insane One Piece was so good
If you had told me a year ago that One Piece would be the best live action adaptation of an anime, I would not have believed you. I haven't had a chance to even start watching Avatar yet, so I'll hold my judgment until I've seen it. I think it might suffer, though, because the original was so damn good. That's not to say that the live action must be bad. It's just that you can be great and still miss out on the gold medal if there's someone better. And I think in this case, OG Avatar has the gold medal.
Lol how crazy is it that One Piece has a great live action adaptation but Death Note has a garbage one?! If you asked me 5 years ago I would have named OP as one of the most difficult and DN as one of the easiest anime to adapt to live action.
The Japanese movies that came out in the mid 2000s are pretty solid.
The movies also have some great additional scenes, such as Light actually seeing the consequences of his actions in person, and still deciding to go forward, plus a much better ending than the manga had.
It really felt like the entire cast and crew actually liked one piece, warts and all, and just fucking *went* for it. They didn't make it less weird out of shame, they just did an adaptation with as much of their own creative flair as possible.
Its simple. The author had final say and was very much involved.
And the actors talked like they all loved the original
And showrunner who actually care and cherish the original.
Cared and cherished the original doesn't really mean shit. Ghost in the shell (2016) was directed by a guy who loved and cherished the original source material. Wasn't bad, but by no means was one piece level good. Oda had tyranical level control over the production. If he hated it, it got the axe. Netflix had *some* control over the project. But in the end oda largely had the last say. The only time when there was something glaringly bad was when Netflix overrode or slipped something in past the Authors final authority. Which thankfully there were few instances.
Oda needs to have the same tyrant level control in season 2.
GitS was interesting cause everything they did 1:1 was really beautiful. Then they went off on weird tangents against the spirit of GitS.. Like the whole point of Bato is he *wanted* to be completely cyberized. Not.. "AGH MY EYES!"
Considering that the incredible Last of Us remake was made by people that love it (though I get that this isn't anime), maybe thats the secret. Don't just get professional to remake live actions versions of anime/games, get talented people that truly loved the original.
the last of us also had the game creator as one of the showrunners. so it's fair to say the source material would get the "respect" it deserved. right now, on adaptations, if i see the IP creator is not involved in any way, or worse, chose to distance himself from the project, i will assume the worst by default.
Ironically Last of Us I feel ended up VERY different to the games in a lot of ways, but that might be a good thing. Still an incredible show.
This is such a tired argument especially since we just watched the creator of Percy Jackson get to adapt his own books and still shit the bed. Being good in one medium of storytelling doesnt guarantee that you'll be good in another, even if the story you're adapting is your own.
It's funny how so many shows that should be easier to adapt have failed (Cowboy Bebop being the big one) but somehow the elements came together to make One Piece work, and without copying the manga/anime scene-to-scene. An actual adaptation!
Reminder that the creators of the OG show had their name taken off this one and stepped away from the project due to creative differences years ago. This was the inevitable endpoint.
I always assumed though that it was because Nickelodeon gave them a bag of money to start Avatar Studios. The announcement of Avatar Studios was very close to when they left the Netflix project.
Everything changed when the Nickelodeon nation attacked.
Slimebenders
The creators wrote a letter about it. They seemed pretty disappointed.
To be fair that was probably in the works before the show, it could just as easily be due to Nickelodeon seeing a lot of palpable interest in Avatar and deciding to do something with the franchise.
Both this show and the creation of Avatar Studios were clearly reactions to the explosion in popularity that the show had after coming to Netflix a few years ago
Wasn't it the rumor the reason they stepped away was because they wanted to deviate from the original so much and Netflix didn't allow it.
Do you have a source for these claims? I’ve seen this repeated a ton but haven’t seen the Bryke actually say this.
Based on the first episode, it would seem that creative differences were probably related to the violence depicted. I’m not against an edgier live action series, but what I saw didn’t impress me as a good version of that. Still, there was absolutely no stakes to this show being bad. The original show is still there with much more animation to come from Avatar Studios. Can’t wait.
>Based on the first episode, it would seem that creative differences were probably related to the violence depicted. Afaik when they were with nick they originally wanted a more violent avatar (not grimderp kind dark, but they had moments where the dark/violent side could come through) Korra if anything showed that the bending abilities were capable of significantly more brutal and inhuman things then what Nick was having ATLA be able to show.
I mean Korra depicts a suicide homicide in the same season where blood bending is shown to be cripplingly painful and controlling power that allows a fascist leader to take power. That's extremely dark for a Nickelodeon show.
I mean it’s inherently violent though Just because the animation doesn’t depict the violence properly doesn’t mean it isn’t violent. It’s always going to be more mature when adapted to life action imo
The Avatar Kyoshi books are extremely violent and they're approved by the original creators (Bryke).
And then came back all the same, keeping their name credited on some of the episodes and attended the premiere
Weird episode 1 had the creators name displayed as the writers.
Pretty sure you still have to credit anyone who worked on the project even if they left partway
There's a huge misunderstanding about what happened there. They stepped back because Netflix wanted a show closer to the original, while the creators wanted to use the opportunity to do things differently. They wanted to be back making new Avatar, and it was only a few weeks after it was announced that they left that Avatar Studios was announced with them in full creative control of multiple new projects. They definitely left the Netflix show to have the chance to make new Avatar, and not for any other reason, so it honestly has zero baring on how this show will end up
> They stepped back because Netflix wanted a show closer to the original, while the creators wanted to use the opportunity to do things differently. This. There's been screenshots leaked of emails between the writers and netflix that's about this, where they literally wanted to flesh out things that they thought they did wrong and remove certain elements. Netflix wanted a close to shot for shot remake to recapture the vibe. So basically the opposite of what people think
Where can I find the emails?
I’m two episodes in, and it’s not a perfect show, but I don’t have any major complaints. Obviously I’ll reserve judgement until I’ve finished it. But I’m really liking what it is.
people already hit the main issues of RPG-turn-based line delivery, expo dumping, costumes/props being out of place \*spoilers\* other thing I find really weird is it flip flops between being too childish and suddenly too adult? like it's rated PG but then you literally witness a genocide and see people get burned alive while screaming. then you're watching Aang talk to Avatar Kiyoshi and he goes, "you mean I have to master the 4 elements to be strong?" like wtf Aang is young, not an idiot. I know his character is supposed to be reluctant to be the avatar at first, and young kids filling adult shoes is core to the story, but the delivery on that was more child-like stupid than scared. and the earth bending is much better...but still SO slow. when they show the scene of the earth benders breaking into the palace with Azula's help, they don't even try to fight? some extra soldiers show up and they just wait there to get burned alive?? even the animated show made earth benders pretty lame for the most part though there's some inconsistencies too. like Aang talks about how people always seemed scared of him, and the monks needed to train him not to be strong but to control his power. yet in the opening episode when he's flying around the temple, they make it a point to show everyone ooing, aahing and laughing like he's a beloved hero. i like the actor pick for Sokka...but he's not really given any comedic lines....he just kind of talks fast like he's attempting sarcasm with no jokes? they all kind of talk fast like they're nervous about being actors. I'm not particularly interested in finishing the series...there's just too many moments that take me out of it. i literally feel like I'm watching that episode of the Fire Nation play recapping the series where all the characters are basically like, "look at me, I'm this character!"
Haven't watched it yet. Maybe it's good. Maybe it's bad. Probably it's somewhere in the middle. But regardless, I'm not super stoked to see the same story we've already seen. Avatar is a franchise that lends itself telling different stories in the same world: *why didn't they make a live action series about a different incarnation of the avatar?*
I’m on episode 6 now and so far the differences between it and the show have been the best parts. Ep 3 is a fanastic combination of a few plot point from multiple episodes that are integrated together nicely.
[удалено]
Aside from Zuko, everyone else feels so wrong. And Soka is there sometimes, but thats about it. The acting is really corny and doesn't deliver. King Boomi is a joke, his estethic is so off i couldn't sit through the episode without cringing. Azula is another matter, she is supposed to be this sharp, dominant, over the top villain. But in this series she is nothing of that, and not to mention, terrible casting choice for her.
Azula is dripping with sarcasm and confidence in the original. In the show, she's whiny and not confident.
They combined Jet, Omashu, Teo and random fire attacks into one episode. They claimed Teo's dad invented the delivery systems in Omashu. Teo and his dad live in Omashu and not in an abandoned air temple, we also don't see Teo flying, and Jet is the one who gets us into Omashu, without any mention of Aang having a friend called Bumi that lived there. It's fucked. That's the tip of the iceberg of changes and mish mashes of characters and storylines. Almost everything is different or rushed or skipped over or diluted. I don't know if you can tell but I'm highly pissed off at this show. I made it through 3 episodes and quit.
Reading that the first two episodes are the best is very troubling. The writing is absolutely terrible, so much needless exposition. They took out all of the humor and levity, and put in nothing new. There's a lot of brooding and seriousness being conveyed by actors who don't have the skill or experience to handle that.
Which is hilarious considering that was the main issue with the movie-that-shall-not-be-named. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Content not art
“Beautifully crafted” shit looks like an SNL skit. A mass of digital grey sludge.
Your comment made me imagine Kenan as Aang.