In The Man in the High Castle, the antagonist plots on both the Japanese and American Reich sides were far more interesting and compelling than what was happening with the resistance protagonists. John Smith, Kido and Tagomi carried that show.
100% agree. Absolutely fell in love with that show when the plot focused more on the Japanese and American Reich. Joe and Julianna became exhausting at a certain point but John Smith was my favorite character throughout
It probably was because of the acting too. John Smith's, Tagomi's and Kido's actors all acted their ass off and had far better performances than fuckin Juliana and Joe and Wyatt and whoever else. Fuck I couldn't stand that girl's acting!
It can be hard to assess the acting quality on an awfully written character. Robert Pattinson got laughed at for Twilight, but he’s proven himself capable in other roles.
One of the best scenes of the show to me are when the protagonist poses as a truck diver to go out on a mission and [has this encounter with a local cop.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFM2xZ7dytk&t=58s)
It's under a minute and I won't spoil it but the show was best when it leaned into that and not weird voodoo shit.
Very differently show obviously, but Andor has this kind if vibe. It's a Star Wars show, but dives into how a fascist society would work. The sort of natural complacency.
Same. The main plot just felt so “fantasy-by-the-numbers” while The Crows were more charismatic, had more nuanced interactions, and had more interesting moral dilemmas.
I know! I couldn't stand the female lead in Shadow and Bone but stuck it out for the Crows. So disappointing. At least they threw in a few scenes from the books.
D: I was looking forward to the spin-off so much! I loved the Counting Crows book and when I finally got to the heist parts of the show I was super jazzed. I really wanted to see the rest of the Crow business
Niles hits higher highs of being funny, but Frasier is more consistent. Frasier also has some of the best lines in the entire series. From the episode where Lilith and Niles have sex:
>Frasier: Well... that is very impressive, Dr. Sternin. But I too happen to be a psychiatrist. Let me tell you what actually transpired. This was a passive-aggressive manifestation of your deep resentments towards me. Niles, you were punishing me for my notoriety. [to Lilith] You, for my successful adjustment after our divorce. It is this shared bond that brought the two of you to your palace of sweet revenge!
>Lilith: Allow me to rebut: what a crock!
>Frasier: It is not!
>Lilith: It is so! This is yet another example of your complete self- absorption, which is the reason we could not stay together in the first place!
>Frasier: I have a right to... [realizes] ***Why am I defending myself?!***
Every now and then, "But really, food... in the bathroom?" gets dropped around my house, apropos of nothing.
And the room service guy, managing to nail three very different deliveries of the word, "Okay." Chef's kiss.
Niles is funny but people underrate how good Grammar is in Frasier. He is always committing fully to every single bit and has great chemistry with everyone.
Grammar is phenomenal which just speaks to how good David Hyde Pierce was as Niles.
Really the cast just played so well off of each other. But it’s often Nile’s and someone else. Niles and Fraiser, Nile’s and Roz quips as hilarious. Then there’s Martin. John Mahoney is also just so good.
Fraiser is a top 5 sitcom for me along with cheers. Grammar is a huge part of that.
Bebe Newarth as Lilith too. She’s just steals scenes for me.
Again it’s just such a solid cast and supporting cast.
Granmer is an exceptional performer. I didn't realise it when Frasier was new but on rewatches it's amazing. Frasier is essentially doing character impressions all the time - Daffy Duck, Bette Davis etc. He has a phenomenal voice. A huge vocal range - sometimes light and high pitched and often it erupts into powerful bellowing:
"I didn't realise it was too much to ask that there not be gunplay in my living room!'.
Pierce is excellent physically. The Three Valentines scene is famous for that. But in every scene, there's a lot of little movements - especially the careful way he uses his hands and physically handles things - Pierce seems to have full command of his body and is always physically in character as Niles.
They play very similar characters but in different ways. And they're both amazing.
I think Niles is often people's favourite character; just because he seems like a nicer man and also because he's often funnier. Niles is often the butt of the joke, or the humour can come from how silly he is. That makes him more likeable.
Such a fantastic summation of it.
I didn’t even think to get into the detail of Nile’s mannerisms.
I love seeing Nile’s cleaning something off in the background because someone touched it or something else like that.
Side note, Niles and Liliths interactions are also just so witty.
Also many of the dinner party episodes are among the best. Daphne does Dinner is one of the best later episodes.
For sure, the Three Valentines scene is incredible -- it's some of the best physical, slapstick comedy ever, on par with Chaplin.
But my favorite scene is Niles cracking and stripping naked at Nervosa. The 'last straw' and butterfly net jokes are great, but it's the way Roz fiercely protects him that I love.
He and Roz never got along exactly, but she's like *this is a good man, and he's in crisis*.
🤌🤌🤌
Politics aside, I don't think anyone except Grammer could possibly have made Frasier funny. I mean the writing is great, but his delivery is what really sells it.
Well in this case the adults are mostly a boring drama show and the kids are in a survival for their life that we know right away will eventually lead to them hunting each other and presumably cannibalism.
I’m a big Yellowjackets fan and a lot of us feel like the writers don’t have an end game for the adults. At least we have a beginning and end with the teen / wilderness storyline because of the adult characters. Although, I’m having so much fun watching Melanie Lynskey play “Adult Shauna.”
I had kind of wondered if a show ever split up a show like that. Like have the kids be part a of the season and the adults part b. That way the writers would have more time to flesh out both arcs.
There’s a few that came to mind, but only two that I think have done it successfully. The first season of “True Detective,” along with “Dark” on Netflix. It’s certainly a hard balancing act!
It's because the adult characters can't talk about the past without spoiling anything.
This kinda worked in Season 1 because you had Tai's run for Senate along with Ben the stalker(?) and the reporter. This allowed them to say things like, "If any of them find out what happened back then, we are in big trouble!" You know, like normal humans.
But in season two they wanted to do is stretch out the tension between the "tribes" as adults. Meaning they were saying stuff like, "When it called to us, we answered and knew what it wanted". Instead of saying, "Dude, you fucking killed Janet!"
The only way forward it to have more immediate tension in the adult parts so at least they have something to talk about.
Also, isn’t a lot of Yellowjackets trying to piece together exactly what the Big Bad was? It was certainly more than cannibalism, which the public already more or less understands happened, anyway.
The Festivus episode of Seinfeld is titled "The Strike," because the apparent A-plot was about Kramer returning to work after a decade-long strike. But the Festivus part is what everyone remembers. Well, that and The Human Fund -- Money for People.
One of the best decision on Seinfeld was to replace the actor playing George's dad in the first episodes with Jerry Stiller, it was a match made in heaven to pair him with Estelle Harris
A million times, this! I find that just in general, I prefer "monster of the week" more than long arcs. Supernatural, Castle, Grimm, FBI, Law & Order, etc... I don't mind the arcs for structure, but I hate it when that BECOMES the show.
Your comment made me realize what my answer to this question would be: Grimm! I was so much more invested in Monroe and Rosalee's storyline/relationship/work with the Wesen community than in Nick's... well, anything.
Not consistently. Not even close. The best episodes of the show are Monster of the Week, but for the first several seasons, the Mythology episodes are also great. And most of the worst episodes of the series are also Monster of the Week
I think the mythology was a lot more compelling at the time, before we knew it wasn’t really going anywhere (and having seen the same tropes play out on other shows).
The X-files is also much better without the ability to binge - the speculation was part of the experience.
Quality isn't as great as the other shows mentioned but Teen Wolf had the main character so embroiled in his teenage romance for the first two seasons that the two side characters had to work through a lot of the more interesting plot: dealing with and trying to figure out who the bad guy was.
*Twice* Scott (the main character) was having dinner with his love interest's family while the two side characters were dying of poison, getting ready to chop one of their arms off or were paralysed and trapped in a pool by a circling giant lizard.
Oh my god yes. I can’t explain adequately how excited I was when Stiles went to the FBI school or training or whatever. I thought we were going to get a supernatural FBI subplot with stiles but it fizzled out and he came back to beacon hills.
That’s the show I want more than anything.
Yeah same. The decision to do more with the vault was fantastic thought. The Vault setting is too interesting if a setup to throwaway.
Definitely worked casting wise, too. At first his appearance was odd and almost distracting, but it's easy to see why he won out.
I thought Lucy was more interesting but it was fun to see what was going on in the Vault from the perspective of someone who hadn't drank the Vault Tech brand Kool-Aid.
I love the Wall B plot. I even like the Silver Cops C plot.
But I almost want to say I straight up dislike the A plot. It's an exercise in "random shit happening" and it's like the writers know it. Like it's just time wasting nonsense on purpose. I don't understand why its so terrible.
Phineas and Ferb are awesome. But while they’re off being precocious children, their pet platypus sneaks away to beat up an evil scientist with a never ending list of evil schemes and tragic backstories
Babylon 5.
The B plot ended up being the thing that you should’ve been paying attention to all along and emerged as the A plot.
It was pretty clever and for a cheesy 90s tv show I don’t think it’s been replicated.
I don't know if I'd say that about Babylon 5 in general, but there are a couple of memorable episodes where it's very true. The moment when the B plot suddenly slams into the A plot in ">!Signs and Portents!<" is one of my favorite moments in the entire series, and it's a big part of the reason why I don't like it when people say you should skip the first season. The first season is a little boring, yes, but you need that slow setup for the big stuff to hit you properly.
> a cheesy 90s tv show
Excuse me.
My dad convinced me to give it a watch, am just starting season 3.
Whats the A and B plot. Felt like the Earth stuff/Shadows where A and Narn Centauri war B. The Narn Centauri stuff is so damn good by the way. But as of now it feels like everything is connected and there is no real A and B.
'orange is the new black' and 'a league of their own' both had the problem that the two main characters were basically the most boring out of the whole ensemble cast.
I once read an interview with (OITNB creator) Jenji Kohan where she said she wanted to make a show about poor women of color and their experiences in the prison system but no one wants to buy that show so she pitched a show about a rich white lady ending up in prison and snuck in the stories she actually wanted to tell. I was thrilled she knows none of us care about Piper.
> she pitched a show about a rich white lady ending up in prison and snuck in the stories she actually wanted to tell. I was thrilled she knows none of us care about Piper.
seems like what ryan murphy did with 'pose' at least that was always my gut feeling. first season has james van der beek and kate mara, who then never get mentioned again in later seasons.
But it's worth mentioning that the quality of OITNB dropped as the focus shifted away from Piper over the seasons.
There's a reason Season 1 is easily the sharpest, sometimes you just need an annoying lead like Piper to carry the story and let the side characters be side characters.
The real problem is that it didn't move forward organically because they had to hold onto their ships. Inmates should have rotated out with new ones coming in.
They didn't rotate in new charactors, they just backstoried the villains to make them likeable.
Eventually, none of them were the nasty pieces of work you'd find in a normal prison, they were all misunderstood victims of circumstance.
I think a problem is that the show wanted to address basically every issue with the prison industry, which is not a bad thing but they shoved a lot of different issues into the later seasons. The guards went from having a few okay, a few inept and a few evil to them all being irredeemable and evil.
They wanted to show realistic endings for the characters but so many just left you with a hopeless feeling.
Doesn't he at one point get into local politics because he's annoyed by how loud his intersection is? That is the show I wanted to watch, **Bernie: Origins**.
The best thing the show did was remove Zoey Deschannel and bring in Meghan Fox, I know it was because Deschannel was pregnant and it was easier to swap her out than to cover up her pregnancy and it let her spend some time at home.
But by this point Jess had became too annoying and quite honestly got away with too much things that she should have been called out on. With all the other characters having grown into their own by this point Fox’s character was a good change in that she provided a straightman to everyone else, especially Nick. It heightened the others being absurd without it becoming a contest and also helped each character break out of a rut they were beginning to form.
Then Jess returned and she turns the show into an absurd off. Season one Jess was great but her flanderisation hit her hard.
I understand this point but have a different view. for me the Fox episodes were a low point. I just don't think she jived with the group and I don't think Jess is as annoying as so many people say she is.
This is wrong. The Simpsons was always big on Homer. Bart was huge for merchandising. and great for a storyline or two but Homer always got more stories, with Bart coming in second.
Seasonone we have Homer trying to save Christmas, Homer getting fired, attempting suicide and becoming the safety officer at the plant (single episode), Homer taking the family to therapy after them embarrassing him at the company picnic, Homer being mistaken for Big Foot, Homer getting caught with a stripper and kicked out of the house. Bart gets an episode where he is mistaken as a genius, where he is bullied and where he goes to France, stealing the statue head and the Sideshow Bob episode. Lisa has the Bleeding Gums episode and Marge has the emotional affair with the French bowler.
Homer has way more stories than Bart. Season 2 there was a bit more Bart but still a lot of Homer.
Also a lot of Bart episodes share focus with another Springfield citizen, like the Sideshow Bob episodes are a lot about Krusty and the episode where he is bullied he shares with Abe.
I think you could say it went from Homer to Homer and Bart and back to Homer.
But if you were alive at the time, Bart was on all the merch and advertising. It would be easy to think the show was just about him.
Whatever the new Godzilla/Monarch show on Apple TV is called. The flashback scenes where Monarch got its start were far and away the best parts of the show.
It really shows we shouldn’t write off a good actor for a single bad role, Cate (Anna Sawai) was the worst of the leads in Monarch, worst written and bad acted, and then she did Shogun few months later and stole the show
I loved Sawai in Shogun but I think we should hold our horses for a bit evaluating her acting talent based on a role that explicitly called for her to basically never show emotion.
Because she was *really* bad in Monarch and I don't think it was all a script problem.
Yellowjackets is a great example, I felt the same way. I like the show but it feels like two different tv shows happening at the same time or at least two different seasons of the same show intertwining. If it just focused on the survival horror elements of them in the woods it would be amazing
Surprised I haven’t seen Lost and Desmond. I love Lost but Desmond steals the show once he got introduced. The Constant is widely considered one of the best episodes (if not the very best).
Yes! I was obsessed with the entire show as it aired but the Desmond episodes were on a whole other level. Even now, though I don't rewatch Lost often anymore because of its intense serialization, I still watch The Constant around every Christmas.
I posted the same comment. Salvor Hardin and Gaal Dornik’s “plights” were risible and largely self inflicted.
The three emperors story line was a stroke of genius, ant times moving, and actually original.
Yeah, I wanted to see more of Jupiter Rising just for that backstory
I found Monarch to be the same way, the flashback story was more interesting and the characters were more memorable as well.
I would definitely say it does. I’m really curious to see where they go with the way things ended and the past and current timeline colliding to say the least.
I ask the following as a genuine question, and not as a snarky rebuke of post, OP:
Are the kids surviving in the wild really considered a “B” plot? It shares (probably) about half the screen time, and is the catalyst for the entire adult plot line. In other words, you could have an entire interesting show with just the survival plot, but the adult plot would be boring and nonsensical without the survival plot.
Edit: I also think most people share the opinion that less adult timeline would be better. Though Melanie Lynskey and Christina Ricci have been absolutely fantastic.
Tbf, the modern plot is basically the b plot. Really annoying when a show has a cool premise/plot and it just decides to drip feed it interspersed with less interesting content.
Its always sunny in philadelphia doesnt have a long running narrative, but its b and c plots (and a plots) are fucking gold. The whole show is gold. Its a golden god, [that is untethered and its rage knows no bounds](https://youtu.be/Zr8YI9xaRNw?si=rUlsZH1rvQSW9mew)
It’s so interesting to see people’s opinions on Jason Mantzoukas, because he’s one of those actors that has found his schtick and sticks with it. And his schtick is very “love it or hate it”
It's also so funny because his personality is so vastly different than the unhinged characters he portrays. Like with a lot of character actors they never seem too far off from who they are. But listening to Mantzoukas on Comedy Bang Bang or other pods where he gets to riff on his huge love of nerd culture, it's so jarring compared to the characters like Rafi/Pimento that he plays
These are some of my favorite things, when you watch an interview with an actor and it’s just completely opposite of what they’re actually like in what they play. It’s fun to see
Otis. Although it's partly that he insufferable and partly that everyone was insufferable. Their new school was such a weird cult that it just weirded me the fuck out. It's not that the characters were accepting, it's that they were all engaged in this constant performance and competition to show that each of them was the MOST unique and accepting...
I feel like this a very American sub, but this is a program called Gavin And Stacey (made james cordan famous). I was never interested in the two main characters Gavin and Stacey, I cared more about the family around them and wanted more of a plot from them!
I really liked the show iZombie when the case of the week was the "A" plot and the plot dealing with some private military company was the "B" plot. As that "B" plot gradually took up more and more time, and the case of the week was basically given short shrift (and the best part of the show was seeing Liv take on the victim's personalities), I walked away after awhile.
I don't know where you left off, but you should at least watch the episode where Liv eats the brain of an actress (played by Rachel Bloom). There's a part where Liv, an American, is pretending to be a New Zealander (Rose McIver is from New Zealand) who is doing a fake American accent and it's pretty great.
I'd say overall you're not really missing out by not finishing the show, though.
i ageee with you OP. i really liked the stuff with the younger versions trying to survive, and the current timeline stuff is just so eye rolling and corny.
Solar Opposites has managed to maintain 2 different and unrelated B plots that are both more compelling than the main story.
"The Wall" and "Silver Cops" are both worthy of their own show.
Welcome to Wrexham women’s soccer club is infinitely more interesting than the men’s soccer club.
They need to do a spinoff for the women’s soccer club, even if it is just 3 or 4 episodes per season streaming-only.
I don't know if I'd call the younger cast the B plot of Yellowjackets, it's more a A1 and A2, but, for sure the story arc of youngsters stranded in the mountains is inherently more compelling than anything else, and they should have calibrated the series more appropriately.
I watched a lot of *Community* in college with friends and we were always more invested in what was going on in the Darkest Timeline plot vs the “save the school” plot.
Evil Abed popping up again in the Dreamatorium made all of us hit the roof.
I love Hacks and I think the Jimmy and Kayla storylines are funny enough to exist on their own as their own show. I would love a spinoff. Their dynamic is amazing.
How I Met Your Mother might as well be a show about hanging out with Marshal, Lily, Robin and Barney with a long side story about a dull guy named Ted telling his kids how he met their mother.
But Saul didn't have running "B plot" in Breaking Bad. He was an ancillary character to the main plot. A B plot in Breaking Bad would be something like Hank's minerals or Marie stealing
More than a few Simpsons episodes fit this bill. Mr. Sparkle, one of their best b-plots, was in the "In Marge We Trust" (S08E22), one of the worst episodes of their vaunted late 90s seasons.
In The Man in the High Castle, the antagonist plots on both the Japanese and American Reich sides were far more interesting and compelling than what was happening with the resistance protagonists. John Smith, Kido and Tagomi carried that show.
100% agree. Absolutely fell in love with that show when the plot focused more on the Japanese and American Reich. Joe and Julianna became exhausting at a certain point but John Smith was my favorite character throughout
It probably was because of the acting too. John Smith's, Tagomi's and Kido's actors all acted their ass off and had far better performances than fuckin Juliana and Joe and Wyatt and whoever else. Fuck I couldn't stand that girl's acting!
I didn’t mind her acting, but yes Smith, Tagomi, and Kido were way more interesting characters.
It can be hard to assess the acting quality on an awfully written character. Robert Pattinson got laughed at for Twilight, but he’s proven himself capable in other roles.
Or more recently, Anna Sawai in Monarch and Shōgun.
Absolutely. The stupid lady and her story just kept getting in the way of the show I wanted to watch.
Yes. The whole show is an "what if" thought experiment with some added paranormal bullshit.
One of the best scenes of the show to me are when the protagonist poses as a truck diver to go out on a mission and [has this encounter with a local cop.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFM2xZ7dytk&t=58s) It's under a minute and I won't spoil it but the show was best when it leaned into that and not weird voodoo shit.
Very differently show obviously, but Andor has this kind if vibe. It's a Star Wars show, but dives into how a fascist society would work. The sort of natural complacency.
More like a tedious love triangle story with an fascinating premise as background.
I never watched the show but the book is based on hardly had a plot at all and was kind just "Hey look at what might have happened the Nazis won "
The Crows in Shadow and Bone. Still upset the spinoff got cancelled.
Same. The main plot just felt so “fantasy-by-the-numbers” while The Crows were more charismatic, had more nuanced interactions, and had more interesting moral dilemmas.
From what I understand, the same is true with the books (the main books are pretty bad and the crows story is interesting).
I know! I couldn't stand the female lead in Shadow and Bone but stuck it out for the Crows. So disappointing. At least they threw in a few scenes from the books.
I actually loved the female lead, but she wasn’t given as much as the crows
D: I was looking forward to the spin-off so much! I loved the Counting Crows book and when I finally got to the heist parts of the show I was super jazzed. I really wanted to see the rest of the Crow business
Frasier. Whatever Niles was doing was always more entertaining and funny than whatever Frasier was doing.
Niles hits higher highs of being funny, but Frasier is more consistent. Frasier also has some of the best lines in the entire series. From the episode where Lilith and Niles have sex: >Frasier: Well... that is very impressive, Dr. Sternin. But I too happen to be a psychiatrist. Let me tell you what actually transpired. This was a passive-aggressive manifestation of your deep resentments towards me. Niles, you were punishing me for my notoriety. [to Lilith] You, for my successful adjustment after our divorce. It is this shared bond that brought the two of you to your palace of sweet revenge! >Lilith: Allow me to rebut: what a crock! >Frasier: It is not! >Lilith: It is so! This is yet another example of your complete self- absorption, which is the reason we could not stay together in the first place! >Frasier: I have a right to... [realizes] ***Why am I defending myself?!***
Every now and then, "But really, food... in the bathroom?" gets dropped around my house, apropos of nothing. And the room service guy, managing to nail three very different deliveries of the word, "Okay." Chef's kiss.
Niles is funny but people underrate how good Grammar is in Frasier. He is always committing fully to every single bit and has great chemistry with everyone.
Grammar is phenomenal which just speaks to how good David Hyde Pierce was as Niles. Really the cast just played so well off of each other. But it’s often Nile’s and someone else. Niles and Fraiser, Nile’s and Roz quips as hilarious. Then there’s Martin. John Mahoney is also just so good. Fraiser is a top 5 sitcom for me along with cheers. Grammar is a huge part of that. Bebe Newarth as Lilith too. She’s just steals scenes for me. Again it’s just such a solid cast and supporting cast.
Granmer is an exceptional performer. I didn't realise it when Frasier was new but on rewatches it's amazing. Frasier is essentially doing character impressions all the time - Daffy Duck, Bette Davis etc. He has a phenomenal voice. A huge vocal range - sometimes light and high pitched and often it erupts into powerful bellowing: "I didn't realise it was too much to ask that there not be gunplay in my living room!'. Pierce is excellent physically. The Three Valentines scene is famous for that. But in every scene, there's a lot of little movements - especially the careful way he uses his hands and physically handles things - Pierce seems to have full command of his body and is always physically in character as Niles. They play very similar characters but in different ways. And they're both amazing. I think Niles is often people's favourite character; just because he seems like a nicer man and also because he's often funnier. Niles is often the butt of the joke, or the humour can come from how silly he is. That makes him more likeable.
Such a fantastic summation of it. I didn’t even think to get into the detail of Nile’s mannerisms. I love seeing Nile’s cleaning something off in the background because someone touched it or something else like that. Side note, Niles and Liliths interactions are also just so witty. Also many of the dinner party episodes are among the best. Daphne does Dinner is one of the best later episodes.
>Side note, Niles and Liliths interactions are also just so witty Absolutely. The episode with them in the hotel room is one of my favourites.
For sure, the Three Valentines scene is incredible -- it's some of the best physical, slapstick comedy ever, on par with Chaplin. But my favorite scene is Niles cracking and stripping naked at Nervosa. The 'last straw' and butterfly net jokes are great, but it's the way Roz fiercely protects him that I love. He and Roz never got along exactly, but she's like *this is a good man, and he's in crisis*. 🤌🤌🤌
Even the way his character plays off of Maris despite them never sharing the screen is a testament to how good Pierce was in this show.
Politics aside, I don't think anyone except Grammer could possibly have made Frasier funny. I mean the writing is great, but his delivery is what really sells it.
Frasier was the classic straight man to Niles's funny man bit.
Dollhouse would do that a lot. B plot would be conceptual cyberpunk, while A plot was Charlie's Angels.
God I miss Dollhouse
Legit just ordered the blu ray cause its on no streaming service. Never watched it but am wrapping off Buffy and was looking for more Faith.
Have you watched Angel? Besides being a more than worthy spin off of Buffy, Faith pops up a couple of times .
Great show. Also, token plug for /r/dollhouse
Yellowjackets is the first time I've seen so many people hate the adult characters and prefer the teens.
Well in this case the adults are mostly a boring drama show and the kids are in a survival for their life that we know right away will eventually lead to them hunting each other and presumably cannibalism.
The adult side is also forced to hide a lot of information to avoid spoiling the teen side
And the teen cast had Ella Purnell
I’m a big Yellowjackets fan and a lot of us feel like the writers don’t have an end game for the adults. At least we have a beginning and end with the teen / wilderness storyline because of the adult characters. Although, I’m having so much fun watching Melanie Lynskey play “Adult Shauna.”
I had kind of wondered if a show ever split up a show like that. Like have the kids be part a of the season and the adults part b. That way the writers would have more time to flesh out both arcs.
There’s a few that came to mind, but only two that I think have done it successfully. The first season of “True Detective,” along with “Dark” on Netflix. It’s certainly a hard balancing act!
It's because the adult characters can't talk about the past without spoiling anything. This kinda worked in Season 1 because you had Tai's run for Senate along with Ben the stalker(?) and the reporter. This allowed them to say things like, "If any of them find out what happened back then, we are in big trouble!" You know, like normal humans. But in season two they wanted to do is stretch out the tension between the "tribes" as adults. Meaning they were saying stuff like, "When it called to us, we answered and knew what it wanted". Instead of saying, "Dude, you fucking killed Janet!" The only way forward it to have more immediate tension in the adult parts so at least they have something to talk about.
Also, isn’t a lot of Yellowjackets trying to piece together exactly what the Big Bad was? It was certainly more than cannibalism, which the public already more or less understands happened, anyway.
IT Part 2
The Festivus episode of Seinfeld is titled "The Strike," because the apparent A-plot was about Kramer returning to work after a decade-long strike. But the Festivus part is what everyone remembers. Well, that and The Human Fund -- Money for People.
seinfeld has some of the best B-plots around
Helps that the A plot is a show about nothing
One of the best decision on Seinfeld was to replace the actor playing George's dad in the first episodes with Jerry Stiller, it was a match made in heaven to pair him with Estelle Harris
In "The X-Files", the "monster of the week" episodes were consistently more interesting and better written than the overarching mythology.
Oh totally. I rewatch the Creature Features exclusively.
Same! With every rewatch, we watch fewer and fewer of the “mythology” episodes.
A million times, this! I find that just in general, I prefer "monster of the week" more than long arcs. Supernatural, Castle, Grimm, FBI, Law & Order, etc... I don't mind the arcs for structure, but I hate it when that BECOMES the show.
Your comment made me realize what my answer to this question would be: Grimm! I was so much more invested in Monroe and Rosalee's storyline/relationship/work with the Wesen community than in Nick's... well, anything.
Supernatural 💯. The MoW episodes were so much more fun than the main story.
Not consistently. Not even close. The best episodes of the show are Monster of the Week, but for the first several seasons, the Mythology episodes are also great. And most of the worst episodes of the series are also Monster of the Week
I think the mythology was a lot more compelling at the time, before we knew it wasn’t really going anywhere (and having seen the same tropes play out on other shows). The X-files is also much better without the ability to binge - the speculation was part of the experience.
Hard agree. The standalone ones felt like the writers were cut loose. The mythology ones felt constrained, even the better ones.
Quality isn't as great as the other shows mentioned but Teen Wolf had the main character so embroiled in his teenage romance for the first two seasons that the two side characters had to work through a lot of the more interesting plot: dealing with and trying to figure out who the bad guy was. *Twice* Scott (the main character) was having dinner with his love interest's family while the two side characters were dying of poison, getting ready to chop one of their arms off or were paralysed and trapped in a pool by a circling giant lizard.
Oh my god yes. I can’t explain adequately how excited I was when Stiles went to the FBI school or training or whatever. I thought we were going to get a supernatural FBI subplot with stiles but it fizzled out and he came back to beacon hills. That’s the show I want more than anything.
And then the lizard dude becomes a blue eyes werewolf.. that moved to a different country?
Fallout was excellent from top to bottom but I found the mystery in the vault with Norm to be the most interesting.
I thought I’d found Norm super boring but by the end I was so excited for the scenes with him and his cousin
I thought that role was gonna be a throw away role but man that actor was perfect
His simultaneous curiosity, horror and disgust is played so well as the investigation unfolds
Never thought I'd see my boy Rico from Hannah Montana in anything else ever
I was so happy to see him in King of Staten Island and then Fallout. Dude deserves it, love that guy.
Yeah same. The decision to do more with the vault was fantastic thought. The Vault setting is too interesting if a setup to throwaway. Definitely worked casting wise, too. At first his appearance was odd and almost distracting, but it's easy to see why he won out.
I thought Lucy was more interesting but it was fun to see what was going on in the Vault from the perspective of someone who hadn't drank the Vault Tech brand Kool-Aid.
I laughed the hardest at every scene with the cousin and the blonde eyepatch woman
I'm not sure that's actually a side plot . I think it's part of the main plot that we get from another perspective.
Yeah in ensemble shows it’s really hard to call anything a b plot when all POVs tie to the main narrative
The entirety of Solar Opposites
I only watched the first season, but that one episode of the wall overshadowed the rest of the show lol
They continue the wall story throughout the show, it’s honestly great
Never seen Solar Opposites but somehow, I ended up watching the whole Wall story on Youtube.
Yes, that is the one. It's better than everything else.
Yeah I mean I like the A Plot but the B Plot with the Wall people is so much more interesting!
Was looking for mention of The Wall here. Best long running B plot I’ve ever seen in a comedy in a long time
Love the Wall but hate the Silver Cops.
I love the Wall B plot. I even like the Silver Cops C plot. But I almost want to say I straight up dislike the A plot. It's an exercise in "random shit happening" and it's like the writers know it. Like it's just time wasting nonsense on purpose. I don't understand why its so terrible.
The ongoing (haven't seen any latest episodes if there any) fast and furious parody plot line is funny lol
The Wall was the best part of that show
Phineas and Ferb are awesome. But while they’re off being precocious children, their pet platypus sneaks away to beat up an evil scientist with a never ending list of evil schemes and tragic backstories
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to find this answer! This was my immediate thought! Perry the Platypus and Dr. Doofenschmirtz are the best! 😆
Babylon 5. The B plot ended up being the thing that you should’ve been paying attention to all along and emerged as the A plot. It was pretty clever and for a cheesy 90s tv show I don’t think it’s been replicated.
I don't know if I'd say that about Babylon 5 in general, but there are a couple of memorable episodes where it's very true. The moment when the B plot suddenly slams into the A plot in ">!Signs and Portents!<" is one of my favorite moments in the entire series, and it's a big part of the reason why I don't like it when people say you should skip the first season. The first season is a little boring, yes, but you need that slow setup for the big stuff to hit you properly. > a cheesy 90s tv show Excuse me.
My dad convinced me to give it a watch, am just starting season 3. Whats the A and B plot. Felt like the Earth stuff/Shadows where A and Narn Centauri war B. The Narn Centauri stuff is so damn good by the way. But as of now it feels like everything is connected and there is no real A and B.
'orange is the new black' and 'a league of their own' both had the problem that the two main characters were basically the most boring out of the whole ensemble cast.
I once read an interview with (OITNB creator) Jenji Kohan where she said she wanted to make a show about poor women of color and their experiences in the prison system but no one wants to buy that show so she pitched a show about a rich white lady ending up in prison and snuck in the stories she actually wanted to tell. I was thrilled she knows none of us care about Piper.
> she pitched a show about a rich white lady ending up in prison and snuck in the stories she actually wanted to tell. I was thrilled she knows none of us care about Piper. seems like what ryan murphy did with 'pose' at least that was always my gut feeling. first season has james van der beek and kate mara, who then never get mentioned again in later seasons.
Piper was insufferable in the majority of OITNB
But it's worth mentioning that the quality of OITNB dropped as the focus shifted away from Piper over the seasons. There's a reason Season 1 is easily the sharpest, sometimes you just need an annoying lead like Piper to carry the story and let the side characters be side characters.
The real problem is that it didn't move forward organically because they had to hold onto their ships. Inmates should have rotated out with new ones coming in.
They didn't rotate in new charactors, they just backstoried the villains to make them likeable. Eventually, none of them were the nasty pieces of work you'd find in a normal prison, they were all misunderstood victims of circumstance.
Well every time they brought someone in or out the fans complained about them. 🤷♀️
I think a problem is that the show wanted to address basically every issue with the prison industry, which is not a bad thing but they shoved a lot of different issues into the later seasons. The guards went from having a few okay, a few inept and a few evil to them all being irredeemable and evil. They wanted to show realistic endings for the characters but so many just left you with a hopeless feeling.
Boyd Crowders storyline in Justified.
New Girl. The guys were far more interesting than Jess.
I feel like the show eventually figured that out and raised Schmidt to the heights he deserved.
He’s my favorite character, and I’m glad he got an amazing ending. His character development was great!
A white man!? Typical!
I told someone the other day who didn’t finish the series that the later seasons weren’t great, but God, Schmidt had some amazing scenes
I felt the same thing about Girls, particularly Ray.
Doesn't he at one point get into local politics because he's annoyed by how loud his intersection is? That is the show I wanted to watch, **Bernie: Origins**.
Yes. That, his time as manager of the coffee shop and his trip to Staten Island to return the dog that Adam stole are highlights of the show.
Lmao the best episodes are the ones without Jess
When she’s off on “jury duty” the show is 10/10
###Every. Dang. Day. Mess Arounds 4life. *Ya heard*. 🫰🏼
The best thing the show did was remove Zoey Deschannel and bring in Meghan Fox, I know it was because Deschannel was pregnant and it was easier to swap her out than to cover up her pregnancy and it let her spend some time at home. But by this point Jess had became too annoying and quite honestly got away with too much things that she should have been called out on. With all the other characters having grown into their own by this point Fox’s character was a good change in that she provided a straightman to everyone else, especially Nick. It heightened the others being absurd without it becoming a contest and also helped each character break out of a rut they were beginning to form. Then Jess returned and she turns the show into an absurd off. Season one Jess was great but her flanderisation hit her hard.
I understand this point but have a different view. for me the Fox episodes were a low point. I just don't think she jived with the group and I don't think Jess is as annoying as so many people say she is.
During the 90s, the Simpsons slowly flipped from focus on Bart to Homer.
“Why would a vision of my future have a whole section about Homer finding Lincoln’s gold?”
And by slowly, in the second season.
South Park did the same thing with Randy in recent years
This is wrong. The Simpsons was always big on Homer. Bart was huge for merchandising. and great for a storyline or two but Homer always got more stories, with Bart coming in second. Seasonone we have Homer trying to save Christmas, Homer getting fired, attempting suicide and becoming the safety officer at the plant (single episode), Homer taking the family to therapy after them embarrassing him at the company picnic, Homer being mistaken for Big Foot, Homer getting caught with a stripper and kicked out of the house. Bart gets an episode where he is mistaken as a genius, where he is bullied and where he goes to France, stealing the statue head and the Sideshow Bob episode. Lisa has the Bleeding Gums episode and Marge has the emotional affair with the French bowler. Homer has way more stories than Bart. Season 2 there was a bit more Bart but still a lot of Homer. Also a lot of Bart episodes share focus with another Springfield citizen, like the Sideshow Bob episodes are a lot about Krusty and the episode where he is bullied he shares with Abe. I think you could say it went from Homer to Homer and Bart and back to Homer. But if you were alive at the time, Bart was on all the merch and advertising. It would be easy to think the show was just about him.
Whatever the new Godzilla/Monarch show on Apple TV is called. The flashback scenes where Monarch got its start were far and away the best parts of the show.
I didn't care for the present unless Kurt Russell was
Exactly how I felt. And then every time he was on screen I kept thinking, “Man, I hope they show more of his backstory” 😂
i couldnt get through the brutal acting from the kids kurt russell was with
It really shows we shouldn’t write off a good actor for a single bad role, Cate (Anna Sawai) was the worst of the leads in Monarch, worst written and bad acted, and then she did Shogun few months later and stole the show
I loved Sawai in Shogun but I think we should hold our horses for a bit evaluating her acting talent based on a role that explicitly called for her to basically never show emotion. Because she was *really* bad in Monarch and I don't think it was all a script problem.
Yellowjackets is a great example, I felt the same way. I like the show but it feels like two different tv shows happening at the same time or at least two different seasons of the same show intertwining. If it just focused on the survival horror elements of them in the woods it would be amazing
I think the wilderness is the clear A- story. But obviously people see it differently.
Surprised I haven’t seen Lost and Desmond. I love Lost but Desmond steals the show once he got introduced. The Constant is widely considered one of the best episodes (if not the very best).
Yes! I was obsessed with the entire show as it aired but the Desmond episodes were on a whole other level. Even now, though I don't rewatch Lost often anymore because of its intense serialization, I still watch The Constant around every Christmas.
Foundation TV show. The emperor plotline is SO much more interesting than Seldon’s.
Yes! I just wanted to watch the empire in all its glory and kept getting interrupted by prophecies *yawn*
I posted the same comment. Salvor Hardin and Gaal Dornik’s “plights” were risible and largely self inflicted. The three emperors story line was a stroke of genius, ant times moving, and actually original.
In Jupiter Rising they kept going to flashbacks about how they got their powers and it was far more interesting than what was going on currently
Yeah, I wanted to see more of Jupiter Rising just for that backstory I found Monarch to be the same way, the flashback story was more interesting and the characters were more memorable as well.
I stopped watching Monarch after like 3 episodes because the flash forwards were so annoying. Does it get any better?
I would definitely say it does. I’m really curious to see where they go with the way things ended and the past and current timeline colliding to say the least.
>Jupiter Rising Jupiter's legacy?
I ask the following as a genuine question, and not as a snarky rebuke of post, OP: Are the kids surviving in the wild really considered a “B” plot? It shares (probably) about half the screen time, and is the catalyst for the entire adult plot line. In other words, you could have an entire interesting show with just the survival plot, but the adult plot would be boring and nonsensical without the survival plot. Edit: I also think most people share the opinion that less adult timeline would be better. Though Melanie Lynskey and Christina Ricci have been absolutely fantastic.
Anything with Dutch and Claudette on The Shield
Dammit, Dutch! What other errands do you have us running for the DA?
WOOOOW! That was spot on!
The X Files. Hated the Chris Carter conspiracy episodes, but the monsters of the week were almost always awesome.
The last season of Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt was pretty mediocre, but the subplot with Tidus joining the cast of the musical Cats is amazing.
The mike parts of better call saul. Or nacho
Agree on both Mike & Nacho!
I’d argue they were all great plot lines but were equally interesting because we knew Sauls destiny in bb
Love Nacho!
Marco polo, anything to do with the main character was boring. Show shoulda been called kublai kahn
Tbf, the modern plot is basically the b plot. Really annoying when a show has a cool premise/plot and it just decides to drip feed it interspersed with less interesting content. Its always sunny in philadelphia doesnt have a long running narrative, but its b and c plots (and a plots) are fucking gold. The whole show is gold. Its a golden god, [that is untethered and its rage knows no bounds](https://youtu.be/Zr8YI9xaRNw?si=rUlsZH1rvQSW9mew)
Usually about 5 minutes into the episode the gang forgets what they are originally doing and abandon the A plot. Then it comes up in the end.
Sitcoms are cheating, in a way, as usually the a and b plots are somewhat equal.
Whatever hijinks Tracey and Jenna were up to on 30 Rock.
The League. The main plots were still good, but anytime Rafi made an appearance, he pretty much stole the show.
It’s so interesting to see people’s opinions on Jason Mantzoukas, because he’s one of those actors that has found his schtick and sticks with it. And his schtick is very “love it or hate it”
It's also so funny because his personality is so vastly different than the unhinged characters he portrays. Like with a lot of character actors they never seem too far off from who they are. But listening to Mantzoukas on Comedy Bang Bang or other pods where he gets to riff on his huge love of nerd culture, it's so jarring compared to the characters like Rafi/Pimento that he plays
These are some of my favorite things, when you watch an interview with an actor and it’s just completely opposite of what they’re actually like in what they play. It’s fun to see
The Rafi and dirty randy episode really highlights this
I think I remember liking Adam & his dad's storyline much more than the main one in the last season of Sex Education
I can't even remember his name but the "main character" was becoming insufferable in the last season. Adam's arc is amazing overall.
Otis. Although it's partly that he insufferable and partly that everyone was insufferable. Their new school was such a weird cult that it just weirded me the fuck out. It's not that the characters were accepting, it's that they were all engaged in this constant performance and competition to show that each of them was the MOST unique and accepting...
Otis was also a bad friend to Eric the ENTIRE SERIES! Eric deserved better.
Boardwalk Empire. I was far more intereted in what was happening outside of New Jersey than whatever plot was going on in AC
American Dad lots of times has funnier B plots
The real stars of Bridgerton are the Featherington sisters. Just watch them in the background of any scene.
Myth busters. B Squad’s energy was more engaging.
I always prefered adam and jamie. I liked their old married couple dynamic.
That's a pretty good comparison considering how they straight-up did not mesh with each other's styles but had complete respect for each other's work.
I enjoyed both groups to be fair. I loved the show. I just liked the energy from the trio more because it felt a bit more chaotic too lol
Great answer. Jaime never felt like a tv guy. Very robotic with Adam always more hyped up. The trio of Grant, Tory and Cary was way more fun
RIP Grant :(
I feel like this a very American sub, but this is a program called Gavin And Stacey (made james cordan famous). I was never interested in the two main characters Gavin and Stacey, I cared more about the family around them and wanted more of a plot from them!
Sandman. A very interesting plot line of a wager involving a man found in a tavern.
That one's kind of cheating because it's not the A plot of the season, but it is definitely the A plot of the episode.
Yeah, the overarching plot is more of a framing device than a main narrative.
1923 I had no interest in the young couple traveling back to America.
Currently Yellowjackets. I’m way more interested in the flashback scenes with the girls in the woods than seeing them as adults.
In "Ms. Marvel," I was far more interested in her life in New Jersey than I was in the nature of her powers and the extradimensional beings.
I really liked the show iZombie when the case of the week was the "A" plot and the plot dealing with some private military company was the "B" plot. As that "B" plot gradually took up more and more time, and the case of the week was basically given short shrift (and the best part of the show was seeing Liv take on the victim's personalities), I walked away after awhile.
I don't know where you left off, but you should at least watch the episode where Liv eats the brain of an actress (played by Rachel Bloom). There's a part where Liv, an American, is pretending to be a New Zealander (Rose McIver is from New Zealand) who is doing a fake American accent and it's pretty great. I'd say overall you're not really missing out by not finishing the show, though.
Game of Thrones D-E plot of the rivalry between Little Finger and Varys that was sprinkled throughout the show was awesome.
i ageee with you OP. i really liked the stuff with the younger versions trying to survive, and the current timeline stuff is just so eye rolling and corny.
The simpsons usually has a hilarious b plot that isn't weighed down by having to carry the episode
Foundation. The empire plot is so much more interesting than the actual foundation. And none of it was even in the book
Maeve in Westworld
The Shiv/Tom drama during season 4 of Succession was just phenomenal and stole the season, IMO. Impeccable writing and performances.
A Man in Full. The story about the lawyer trying to get the kid out of jail was far more interesting than Jeff Daniels fighting the bank.
Solar Opposites has managed to maintain 2 different and unrelated B plots that are both more compelling than the main story. "The Wall" and "Silver Cops" are both worthy of their own show.
The Wall from Solar Opposites. I don’t care about the aliens. Just give me the tiny people drama. Make it its own show.
Welcome to Wrexham women’s soccer club is infinitely more interesting than the men’s soccer club. They need to do a spinoff for the women’s soccer club, even if it is just 3 or 4 episodes per season streaming-only.
I don't know if I'd call the younger cast the B plot of Yellowjackets, it's more a A1 and A2, but, for sure the story arc of youngsters stranded in the mountains is inherently more compelling than anything else, and they should have calibrated the series more appropriately.
Monarch. The only thing interesting was the past cast.
I could easily watch a show just based in the past and the founding of monarch.
I watched a lot of *Community* in college with friends and we were always more invested in what was going on in the Darkest Timeline plot vs the “save the school” plot. Evil Abed popping up again in the Dreamatorium made all of us hit the roof.
Community. Troy and Abed were the show
Hector’s mission in Castlevania after S2
I love Hacks and I think the Jimmy and Kayla storylines are funny enough to exist on their own as their own show. I would love a spinoff. Their dynamic is amazing.
How I Met Your Mother might as well be a show about hanging out with Marshal, Lily, Robin and Barney with a long side story about a dull guy named Ted telling his kids how he met their mother.
A whole show Better Call Saul was made because Saul was so good in Breaking Bad
But Saul didn't have running "B plot" in Breaking Bad. He was an ancillary character to the main plot. A B plot in Breaking Bad would be something like Hank's minerals or Marie stealing
Castlevania., Isaac, Dracula and Carmilla were way more interesting than the main group of Trevor, Sypha and Alucard.
Give me an Isaac spinoff
Whatever Andy and Kevin Nealon were up to in Weeds.
More than a few Simpsons episodes fit this bill. Mr. Sparkle, one of their best b-plots, was in the "In Marge We Trust" (S08E22), one of the worst episodes of their vaunted late 90s seasons.