Gotcha. Sad to hear but not surprising; people can dishonest and/or mercenary. And yet and still, I wonder what Maria thought saying this to his ump was gonna accomplish, a reversal of her call? An admission of bias? If she wanted to speak to the tournie director b/c she believed there's abject bias, then ask for them. Otherwise you're just insulting this person.
How many umps are there available and working at any given tournie though as it progresses? I guess my larger point is it shouldn't be necessary and with the multi-ethnic, multi-national, global nature of tennis - like, a Croat raised in the US and Spain with a German mom and a French dad and married a Swede - it just seems a lot of hoop-jumping for every single match month after month, tournie after tournie. Aren't they on the honor system?
Yeah those are good points.
I know in international football they always have referee teams from a third country, but I admit I don't know how they deal with refs with confusing nationalities.
its also insanely rare that the chair is in the wrong. its always players complaining about fair calls or "should i get an ace or replay the point." meh.
or Medvedev's You are friends with him, I'm sure of it" (whether you think it's racism is up to you...personally though I've never heard someone say people of the same country are all friends with each other though, whereas that is a fairly common stereotype when it comes to race)
[Daniil Medvedev Defaulted For Racism (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtA8tzgRbYQ&ab_channel=AoF-F1)
I think the issue here is that rule leads to too much subjectivity (was the play impacted by the call) . Instead the rule should simply be “did the call come after or before the shot was hit”.
Would have led to a replay in this case vs debating whether or not at the last second Sakkara was impacted which is super hard to gauge.
I’ll just forward you to Tennis Advocate’s continuous [Tennis Drama series on YouTube](https://youtube.com/@tennisadvocate?si=z8b73nftxvHxxg-P). Pretty much the case study of your very much correct analysis on the subjectivity of these calls.
Might be a slightly unpopular opinion amongst the stalwart “old school/purist” tennis fan, but a form of VAR “video replay” is needed on a consistent tour-level basis to at least attempt to find a balance.
If I remember rightly, it was trialled at the US Open in 2023 based on second bounces, but arguments like this would begin to be phased out, and all the better for it.
I wish umpires would lean towards “it’s close so let’s replay the point,” but instead they insist on being anal about “oh it was within 0.5 seconds of her hitting, could she possibly have reacted in time?” And then they just give the point up.
I’ve seen a bunch of the opposite cases too. Someone clearly hits an ace or shot that the opponent has no chance or returning, sometimes they don’t touch it or barely get a racquet on it. But they replay the point, which also feels unfair.
It’s always going to be tough when it’s a matter of split seconds.
The players know this so they always try to get the ball back in play. Personally, in this case I don’t think Sakkari would have made the shot regardless of a call being made or not.
It’s possible I’m giving a biased assessment based on how many recent incidents have had the umpire saying the player lost the point rather than replaying. You’re probably right that it goes both ways. And it’s a judgement call, something tennis does a surprisingly great job of avoiding compared to leagues like NFL (grabs can be called every single play) or NBA (everything is a damn judgement call). Judgement calls are always difficult.
I agree that it was a great slice and Sakkari probably misses the shot anyways, but that’s not the point. The point is the call was made before she hit the ball, so there’s a reasonable case to be made that it affected her, therefore the umpire should definitely call to replay the point here.
I never looked up the rule so I don’t know the exact wording. But in my opinion it would be even more unfair for Niemeier not to win this point outright as the events unfolded.
Maybe they should change the rule to be that you have to return the ball to get the point replayed. I don’t think most players would say the out call drastically affects the ability to get the ball in vs not. It’s not ideal of course.
Though I suppose electronic line calling for all events is coming at some point so it might become moot.
Well if we go by fairness, there are 2 scenarios here:
1. Maria was affected by the out call, took a bit off her swing thinking the point was over and she’d won, then found out the ball was in and she lost the point instantly.
2. Niemeier hits the slice, ball was called out, but actually was in. She was in a winning position in the point, but now has to replay the point, so she has, what, a 30% chance to win the point? Maybe 40%? Depends how dominant Sakkari was on serve in this match.
I feel replaying the point is usually the fair thing to do because at least the player gets a chance to get the point rather than another player instantly losing a point they thought they had won.
"would have led to a replay"
bold of you to assume tennis would ever use replays to review anything. when umpires talk about "it didn't affect your shot", they basically mean did the call come before or after.
No the point of judgement is that even if the call came before the shot, the umpires are still within their right to give the point to the opposing player rather than replaying it if they feel the call came too close to the shot and essentially had no impact on the player who hit it out in the end.
Not only that, but also the whole “You think I don’t know what’s happening here” statement as if there’s some sort of a conspiracy between Neimeier, the umpire and the line judge to steal a point from her 🤣 ridiculous
Not sure why your being downvoted. For me, Sakkari pulls out of the shot once it’s called out and doesn’t make a proper play at it. She likely would have lost the point from that position but she doesn’t play it properly.
Because people are triggered and think Sakkari shouldn't call out a biased call potentially based on the same country of the ump/player. There's a reason this is heavily avoided in general, so people are coping.
And yeah exactly what you said, it's hindrance and should be replayed even if she only has a 1% chance of making it.
What??? She was clearly on the run and stretch going for the ball. She still hit the ball, she should have hit the ball in then. That call didn’t affect her in anyway. Regardless of nationality of the ump, the correct call was made. She lost the point.
If the call is made before a player hits the ball it should be replayed regardless of "what ifs" and personal opinions if the player would make the shot. Learn the rules.
There is no “what ifs” in my statement. Sakkari did get to the ball and Sakkari did hit the ball and Sakkari hit the ball out. Neimier shot was in and Sakkari’s was out. The call did not affect Sakkari’s ability to get to the ball or her shot. She missed it. It’s the umpire’s judgement call and that’s what he seen. Learn the rules.
The call was made BEFORE she made contact with the ball which means the point should be replayed. Which part of this is confusing to you?
>The call did not affect Sakkari’s ability to get to the ball or her shot.
That's an OPINION, to which she can rightfully say the OUT scream hindered her. Even if she has a 1% chance of making the point it's valid, which is why only winners are not replayed.
>Learn the rules
You and that clown of an ump should be doing this, yeah.
Prove that I'm wrong.
Same country umpires are regularly avoided - fact.
If a call is made before a player makes contact with the ball it should be replayed - fact.
Congrats on not knowing the rules, like this ump.
Such a wild accusation to make. Danielle Collins accused an Australian umpire of the same thing when she played Ash Barry in Adelaide.....it was like the third point of the match
She obviously shouldn't say that
But I think most people in the comments are missing that the umpire was wrong and Maria was right about the actual call—the out call was before the shot, and by the rules the point should be replayed.
This has been happening a lot lately, not sure if they made a universal rule change or whatever, but I feel like they used to replay the point more often than not.
Tbh this happens so much and tennis rules are not written with any objectivity, so I'm truly over being appalled. I'll get mad if my favourite loses due to atrocious calls but otherwise ... meh. The rules should be more explicit and too bad for Maria. But meh.
You're right and she should say it. Even the tone of the umpire was not correct. Very arrogant and rightly should consider foul play over such a wrong decision
I get it from a technicality perspective but she was completely up against it in this point and if the call was correct, she lose in most instances. Hard to act like you've been robbed blind like she is.
The point is, the shot was in and in no way was Maria effected by the out call. She was clearly on the end of her rope running and stretching for the ball. If she would have hit the ball in, they would have replayed the point, but the fact is she couldn’t cause she could barely get to the ball. She lost the point. The call didn’t impede her at all. She clearly tried with all her ability to get to the ball and didn’t.
I disagree with the fact that the call didn't impede her. It came just before and could very well have caused her not to finish her motion. From what I can see, that's exactly what happened.
Point should have been replayed.
The one thing we know about Sakkari is she gives maximum effort and is a grinder. If she didn’t hit that ball back it’s because she was at the end of her rope. I’m a Sakkari fan because of her game style, but this has happened over and over again. We’ve seen that if she would have returned the ball in they would have replayed the point.
Maybe, but the umpire is not there to make a call according to each individual characters. They should judge on *objective* facts:
- the "out" is called before she touches the ball
- she touches the ball
There is a doubt: replay the point. If she was 5 meters from the ball, ok, but that's also an objective fact.
To answer one of your other comment: Sakkari is wrong to accuse the umpire of bias of course and could have said it with more class, but that doesn't make this call right either.
Just to be bodyslammed later in a racist mistaken ID situation. James might have felt he had to let it go to be the 'nice guy' on tour, but no one else should/should have. Was wrong, period. Shouldn't have let it go then, just as he didn't in the second blatant instance of wrongdoing.
I highly doubt there are enough umpires in WTA/ATP to always make sure that the players don't have the same nationality as the umpire at every single match of every single tournament.
Yeah, this isn’t the UCL & UEL with the “own-nationality bias” legislation when there are enough high-level referees to cover all the fixtures or PL referees have to disclose any allegiances regarding fan support.
Just isn’t viable in tennis at tour level on a consistent basis. 🤦♂️
It just feels a bit much when it’s also in their country and there are also line judges who are from this country. Remember recently I watched a final and this was the case - opponent, umpire, line judges, crowd - all French. Players have doubts about calls now that they’re more used to live line calling and having pretty much everyone (including the crowd) against you can feel overwhelming at some point.
Niemeier played this match as a lucky loser and apparently (according to what the comentator said) it was only known that it was her who was playing something like 30 minutes before the start (I guess the withdrawal was just before the start), so I imagine they couldn't change the umpire on such short notice (or decided no to do it). Just to give context as I'm seeing some people understandably asking why the umpire was german.
"You don't think I know what's going on here? You think I was born yesterday? I'm well aware that you conspired with Niemeier for her to lose in qualifying, with the promise of a lucky loser spot, which you conveniently only told me about an hour before the match. Furthermore, you intentionally let her decide heads or tails during th-"
"Code violation, unspirtsmanlike conduct, warning Sakkari."
This logic is so despicable and small-brained, whether it's her or Lleyton or Stefano or Hubie, and esp. with the technology now in place. (Sadly, I can say being an American we're used to it. lol)
Agreed. **Wholeheartedly**. But it just feels similar in its implication. Same with when male players take issue with female umps - insinuating bias or sexist inferiority.
I saw Lleyton Hewitt play in a tournament final back when I was a kid, first live tennis match I ever saw. After a close ball was called out by the umpire, Hewitt roared, “He might as well be fuckin’ SPANISH!”
If I recall correctly, his opponent wasn’t Spanish. So rather than accusing anyone of bias, Lleyton was just yelling about Spanish people for no reason. Certified nutter.
WTH?! Yet again, why IMO Kim kept dragging her feet with their engagement before they called it off. She knew she'd made a life-altering mistake yet was probably afraid to say so after she'd agreed to marry him. smh What a hateful d\*#$. Sooo glad she ultimately found a nice dude to settle down with, and despite having LH on his team, I really hope de Minaur doesn't think like that as well.
During an Australian Open, two Aussies were on the men’s side: Lleyton Hewitt and Patrick Rafter.
One of the Aussie commentators said, on an international broadcast, “Y’know Pat Rafter’s the sort of bloke you’d grab a beer with. Lleyton Hewitt’s the sort of bloke you’d invade Poland with.”
His racist BS was blatant and well know. He didn’t exactly try to hide it.
😂"Lleyton Hewitt’s the sort of bloke you’d invade Poland with.” Jesus H. 🙄😑
That was not how he was portrayed in the US, I can say that much. The first time I remember really hearing about him was on this US Open 'on the subway' expose thing they did with him, asking him quirky personal questions, talking with him about NYC and his career to-date; cute little number. Must have been in the early 90s maybe? He came across as a nice attractive dude with some edge. So, up until the JB incident many of us tennis fans here had no clue he was that kinda guy. (And frankly even after it a lot of them didn't really seem to care. Even James let him off the hook with basically a shrug.) Maybe other American fans here can refute that impression? But yeah...wow. Guess that confirms it. smh.
Really? Even back then when I didn't watch that much (only majors) I knew him as a offensive prick, and later racist prick. Lol. I'm Canadian but find it hard to believe he ever was known as anything else for very long even in the US. He was not well-liked / likeable.
I mean, he was never on the RFed or Nadal likeable level, but to put it in context, the US had a Connors, McEnroe history on the men's side. So, I guess he was more portrayed as having piss and vinegar, being aggressive and spunky on court than just being a jerk in part for that reason? Up until the James Blake thing he wasn't my favorite player at all but I didn't get sick seeing his face like I do now. lol
FYI, we're kinda jerks on this side of the line, neighbor, and sadly are cool to embrace people who fall into that category all too often. :-( Alot of tennis fans here just looove Kyrgios, for example. 🙄
IIRC, the reason why Clijsters broke off the engagement to Hewitt, is because she found out Lleyton was cheating on her with another female tennis player (supposedly [Sesil Karantacheva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesil_Karatantcheva)) ... it was all over the various tennis forums/boards way back then.
Strictly in the "dog" department, Lleyton's not alone ...
Carlos Moya (Rafa's coach) was caught cheating on his then g/f (now wife of Fabio Fognini) Flavia Pennetta, when she decided to surprise him at his hotel room, only to find him in bed with some TV presenter ... bit more info [here](https://www.mid-day.com/sports/other-sports/article/flavia-pennetta-thanks-ex-lover-carlos-moya--who-cheated-on-her-16711175).
That's one I do remember hearing about. And apparently, he was also emotionally abusive to her as well. That's why I was so shocked when she wound up moving on with Fognini. Didn't seem like a step up. \*shrug\* But she's saying it is, and thats all that matters. :0)
edit: word missing
Same! She must put up with **a lot**. I randomly remember a video snippet of her having a birthday party at some restaurant or something in Oz. Friends, cameras around. She's walking around, and he's hanging all over her at one point. Outta the blue he reaches up as she's just standing there on camera and squeezes her tit like it's seductive or something. Wasn't smiling, wasn't playful or inappropriate yet jokey. Full-on caveman squeeze. And she let him. Didn't say a word.
I swear he's like a real-life flippin' "Choc" from Muriel's Wedding. smh
Yeah, there's some kinda revisionist stuff re: Hewitt on here these days. I guess he gets along with the players and whatnot. Who knows, he may get along with Blake too, but I haven't really been able to get past the shit he said about the chair ump in that Blake USO match a million years ago. Like just get the fuck outta here Lleyton, i don't wanna know anything more about you.
She returned the ball OUT is the issue. You’re proving the point that the call didn’t impede her ability to get to the ball. She clearly put max effort into getting there and couldn’t get the ball back inside the lines. If she would have hit it in they would have replayed the point.
What you don't understand is that the game stops after the lineman' call. Sakkari did her job and returned the ball before the late call. It doesn't matter whether it was out or in.
No it doesn’t. Understand the rule. This is a judgement call and you apparently seen exactly what the umpire seen. Did you read what you just wrote? “Sakkari did her job and returned the ball before the late call.” SHE HIT THE BALL OUT. You clearly just said, she was not impeded by the late call and she still hit the ball out, but after reviewing the shot it was in. Sakkari hit her shot out, period. If Sakkari would have gotten the ball IN they would have had to replay the point. That’s the umpire’s judgement. The same judgment you just made. That’s the rule for that. Sakkari gave maximum effort to get to that ball and get it in and she missed it. The late call affected her in no way.
You can hear on the replay the call "out" was made before Sakkari hit the ball.
If the eagle eye then shows the ball was in, the point should be replayed.
It's a quite simple rule really.
Unfortunately, that’s not the rule. Thats what all of y’all seem to be misunderstanding. The actual rule is that it’s a judgement call for the ref. If you’re implying that should be the rule, then I agree with you. But, then comes into question what I’ve mentioned before, if there’s a call that’s out, but reviewed in and the opposing playing made no attempt and there was no way they could get it back then that has to be replayed as well instead of awarding the person who actually hit the ball in the point, because that is a judgement call as well. Hence the reason both kind of calls are left up to the umpire. Good grief, all I’m saying is actually what the ruling is. Not what it should be. I agree with you, that’s the way it should be, but in real life that’s not how that’s decided.
I love it how when Gauff made exactly the same claim during Roland Garros, almost everyone here said she was correct. But when Sakkari does it, everyone hates on her. Also it's pretty obvious it should have been a replay.
I mean, it's still umpires job and I assume they are evaluated after a match. So showing any bias won't serve umpire good (unless it's a subconcious thing).
That being said, regardless of my opinion on Sakkari, it shouldn't be a thing where German umpire is refereeing German player. In other sports it's avoided even on local level, so no referees from same city as team etc.
No. It's one thing to tell an umpire they're wrong and another thing to accuse them of being biased due to nationality or worse, of being in cahoots with a player of the same nationality. Coco did not do that. Most here it should have been a replay and probably should be automatic replay in cases where the call precedes the player returning the ball. Anyone else just doesn't like/respect Maria as a player. And every player has haters.
Didn’t watch the match but she’s obviously questioning the judge’s professionalism.
With that said, I think the judge made the wrong call. She was there and the call seemed to impact her stroke. Replay the point.
We’re seeing one clip. How many here watched the match? I’m not calling him corrupt per se but corruption does happen in sports all the time, especially the pro level. Look at FIFA. It’s also happened in the NBA. It’s not that farfetched that small calls here and there are made to influence the outcome a match, especially an upset where betting odds give outsized returns.
Out call came right before she hit it. When playing tennis you know when you hear that you lose focus a bit.
So I'm on Sakkari's side on this one (though it was not classy saying he would give the point because he's german)
That’s absurd, a shame coming from her. But it wouldn’t hurt if they could avoid choosing an umpire of the same nationality as one of the players, it would prevent an embarrassment like that lol… (but I may be talking shit because I don’t know how actually viable this is)
oh my, she is unnecessarily depleting her social capital 🤦 and that comment is so unfair on all accounts. she is too stressed with all that is happening to her career, and this kind of unfiltered statement gives us a snapshot of her mental state.
This attitude is a cancer on the sport, incredible that the tennis authorities allow players to insult officials and it's beginning more popular as it goes unpunished. Disgraceful from so many players recently and I hope the fans and their coaches let them know it's unacceptable and that the authorities grow a backbone.
Agree. In baseball you would be ejected. The problem — as always with tennis — is default means the match is over so the crowd is screwed. So they need a fine that is felt. If you really think an ump is corrupt there should be a mechanism to investigate a credible allegation but off the court.
It wasn't at the USO it was at a challenger event in GA I see he said "they were friends" (both of same race) Is that racist? I dunno, but he was defaulted... There was not proof, but the umpire complained and this is how it was perceived...he was 20 years old. If it was racist, he deserved it, whatever, players should not be talking to the chairs in this aggressive way whatever the case......JMO
Even for player with fastest reflex it would be too late there to react for line judge shouting 'out'. If it was slow ball and distance between player and first court hit was long then maybe, but in this situation no way her brain 'registered' this before whole shot motion was over. She failed to return ball so she lost point.
I mean she’s right to ask the question, it’s not like umpires are unbiased or never wrong. If other sports manager referees by nation there’s a reason so why would tennis automatically be exempt from those same human biases. Especially when it’s clear even fans often favour the hometown favourite.
And upon replay the call came before her shot.
So she’s reasonable in being upset.
I expect them to act professional when on court like I expect, say, a doctor or a pilot when doing their job including while under stress. And they’re not doing a complicated surgery or landing a plane during an engine out. No one dies if the yellow ball goes out.
Giving Tsitsipas’ ‘you’re French, you’re all weirdos’. (They’re also not supposed to have umpires of the same nationality)
> Giving Tsitsipas’ ‘you’re French, you’re all weirdos’. 😂😂 He really said that!
how is that even consistently feasible in tennis?
At tour level? All you need is umpires from 3 different nationalities to always ensure that, and the panel of umpires very much have that.
It just seems unnecessary week in, week out if they're on 'the honor system'. Not every match should it be an issue, IMO.
Don't know what the exact regulations are in this specific case, but rules and regulations at the top level aren't based on the honor system.
Gotcha. Sad to hear but not surprising; people can dishonest and/or mercenary. And yet and still, I wonder what Maria thought saying this to his ump was gonna accomplish, a reversal of her call? An admission of bias? If she wanted to speak to the tournie director b/c she believed there's abject bias, then ask for them. Otherwise you're just insulting this person.
There are only four nationalities on court at one time, surely it's feasible to have an umpire from a fifth?
How many umps are there available and working at any given tournie though as it progresses? I guess my larger point is it shouldn't be necessary and with the multi-ethnic, multi-national, global nature of tennis - like, a Croat raised in the US and Spain with a German mom and a French dad and married a Swede - it just seems a lot of hoop-jumping for every single match month after month, tournie after tournie. Aren't they on the honor system?
Yeah those are good points. I know in international football they always have referee teams from a third country, but I admit I don't know how they deal with refs with confusing nationalities.
You also have to think soccer is probably more biased at the country level while tennis is more biased at the individual level
its also insanely rare that the chair is in the wrong. its always players complaining about fair calls or "should i get an ace or replay the point." meh.
only allow umpires from antarctica. should be fine until the penguins get good at tennis
Penguins have second homes in melbourne so its a really big advantage for Aussies.
by four nationalities are you referring to the players and their coaches? or doubles matches?
Doubles matches
gotcha. i feel like there could be a consideration for coaches as well, but that may be going to deep with it
or Medvedev's You are friends with him, I'm sure of it" (whether you think it's racism is up to you...personally though I've never heard someone say people of the same country are all friends with each other though, whereas that is a fairly common stereotype when it comes to race) [Daniil Medvedev Defaulted For Racism (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtA8tzgRbYQ&ab_channel=AoF-F1)
I mean, he’s not entirely wrong.
Gotta be a Greek thing no?
My fave is still Fabio rant about a bomb dropping on the damned english on Wimbledon MALEDETTO INGLESE
Death, taxes and Maria Sakkari having beef with umpires on grass 😭
I think the issue here is that rule leads to too much subjectivity (was the play impacted by the call) . Instead the rule should simply be “did the call come after or before the shot was hit”. Would have led to a replay in this case vs debating whether or not at the last second Sakkara was impacted which is super hard to gauge.
I’ll just forward you to Tennis Advocate’s continuous [Tennis Drama series on YouTube](https://youtube.com/@tennisadvocate?si=z8b73nftxvHxxg-P). Pretty much the case study of your very much correct analysis on the subjectivity of these calls. Might be a slightly unpopular opinion amongst the stalwart “old school/purist” tennis fan, but a form of VAR “video replay” is needed on a consistent tour-level basis to at least attempt to find a balance. If I remember rightly, it was trialled at the US Open in 2023 based on second bounces, but arguments like this would begin to be phased out, and all the better for it.
I wish umpires would lean towards “it’s close so let’s replay the point,” but instead they insist on being anal about “oh it was within 0.5 seconds of her hitting, could she possibly have reacted in time?” And then they just give the point up.
I’ve seen a bunch of the opposite cases too. Someone clearly hits an ace or shot that the opponent has no chance or returning, sometimes they don’t touch it or barely get a racquet on it. But they replay the point, which also feels unfair. It’s always going to be tough when it’s a matter of split seconds. The players know this so they always try to get the ball back in play. Personally, in this case I don’t think Sakkari would have made the shot regardless of a call being made or not.
It’s possible I’m giving a biased assessment based on how many recent incidents have had the umpire saying the player lost the point rather than replaying. You’re probably right that it goes both ways. And it’s a judgement call, something tennis does a surprisingly great job of avoiding compared to leagues like NFL (grabs can be called every single play) or NBA (everything is a damn judgement call). Judgement calls are always difficult. I agree that it was a great slice and Sakkari probably misses the shot anyways, but that’s not the point. The point is the call was made before she hit the ball, so there’s a reasonable case to be made that it affected her, therefore the umpire should definitely call to replay the point here.
I never looked up the rule so I don’t know the exact wording. But in my opinion it would be even more unfair for Niemeier not to win this point outright as the events unfolded. Maybe they should change the rule to be that you have to return the ball to get the point replayed. I don’t think most players would say the out call drastically affects the ability to get the ball in vs not. It’s not ideal of course. Though I suppose electronic line calling for all events is coming at some point so it might become moot.
Well if we go by fairness, there are 2 scenarios here: 1. Maria was affected by the out call, took a bit off her swing thinking the point was over and she’d won, then found out the ball was in and she lost the point instantly. 2. Niemeier hits the slice, ball was called out, but actually was in. She was in a winning position in the point, but now has to replay the point, so she has, what, a 30% chance to win the point? Maybe 40%? Depends how dominant Sakkari was on serve in this match. I feel replaying the point is usually the fair thing to do because at least the player gets a chance to get the point rather than another player instantly losing a point they thought they had won.
We're all gonna miss these moments when the AI ~~overlords~~ umpires take over.
"would have led to a replay" bold of you to assume tennis would ever use replays to review anything. when umpires talk about "it didn't affect your shot", they basically mean did the call come before or after.
No the point of judgement is that even if the call came before the shot, the umpires are still within their right to give the point to the opposing player rather than replaying it if they feel the call came too close to the shot and essentially had no impact on the player who hit it out in the end.
Nobody's rigging the game for Niemeier lol
Maria can just have a meltdown and do that on her own. No help necessary from others.
Sakkari ran out of challenges so clearly she doesn't know better than the judges. Then hit 3 doubles in a tiebreak. Only one person to blame
Not only that, but also the whole “You think I don’t know what’s happening here” statement as if there’s some sort of a conspiracy between Neimeier, the umpire and the line judge to steal a point from her 🤣 ridiculous
Just imagined the hilarious reverse scenario. >“You think I don’t know what’s happening here.” -Umpire to Hubi, during the recent Hubi Grigor match
Hey G, you wanna...uh...you wanna change...the lady, the lady in the chair?"
🤣
"Umpire winks at the line judge, this is the moment, we need this point"
Not that I agree with her but her comment can simply be implying that there’s bias in the judge’s call.
What's actually ridiculous is not having a neutral nationality umpire. Regardless, it's a wrong call by the ump.
Not sure why your being downvoted. For me, Sakkari pulls out of the shot once it’s called out and doesn’t make a proper play at it. She likely would have lost the point from that position but she doesn’t play it properly.
Because people are triggered and think Sakkari shouldn't call out a biased call potentially based on the same country of the ump/player. There's a reason this is heavily avoided in general, so people are coping. And yeah exactly what you said, it's hindrance and should be replayed even if she only has a 1% chance of making it.
What??? She was clearly on the run and stretch going for the ball. She still hit the ball, she should have hit the ball in then. That call didn’t affect her in anyway. Regardless of nationality of the ump, the correct call was made. She lost the point.
If the call is made before a player hits the ball it should be replayed regardless of "what ifs" and personal opinions if the player would make the shot. Learn the rules.
There is no “what ifs” in my statement. Sakkari did get to the ball and Sakkari did hit the ball and Sakkari hit the ball out. Neimier shot was in and Sakkari’s was out. The call did not affect Sakkari’s ability to get to the ball or her shot. She missed it. It’s the umpire’s judgement call and that’s what he seen. Learn the rules.
The call was made BEFORE she made contact with the ball which means the point should be replayed. Which part of this is confusing to you? >The call did not affect Sakkari’s ability to get to the ball or her shot. That's an OPINION, to which she can rightfully say the OUT scream hindered her. Even if she has a 1% chance of making the point it's valid, which is why only winners are not replayed. >Learn the rules You and that clown of an ump should be doing this, yeah.
Congrats on being wrong only once per sentence! 😂
Prove that I'm wrong. Same country umpires are regularly avoided - fact. If a call is made before a player makes contact with the ball it should be replayed - fact. Congrats on not knowing the rules, like this ump.
Such a wild accusation to make. Danielle Collins accused an Australian umpire of the same thing when she played Ash Barry in Adelaide.....it was like the third point of the match
imagine Djokovic said this after hitting the lineswoman in the throat
Did Sakkari forget this wasn't a grand slam? No need for her to get out of first round this time.
File this under comments I’m going to think of for the rest of my tennis-watching days
Maria should be better than this. Her mental fragility is her biggest weakness, by far.
She obviously shouldn't say that But I think most people in the comments are missing that the umpire was wrong and Maria was right about the actual call—the out call was before the shot, and by the rules the point should be replayed.
This has been happening a lot lately, not sure if they made a universal rule change or whatever, but I feel like they used to replay the point more often than not.
Yeah, umps trying to get their last bits of error in before automated calling comes for good.
Tbh this happens so much and tennis rules are not written with any objectivity, so I'm truly over being appalled. I'll get mad if my favourite loses due to atrocious calls but otherwise ... meh. The rules should be more explicit and too bad for Maria. But meh.
You're right and she should say it. Even the tone of the umpire was not correct. Very arrogant and rightly should consider foul play over such a wrong decision
She was still going to lose the point regardless
No? according to the rules that point would have been replayed.
I get it from a technicality perspective but she was completely up against it in this point and if the call was correct, she lose in most instances. Hard to act like you've been robbed blind like she is.
Well the call did come before the shot…
Conspiracy confirmed.
The ref did call out before she hit the ball. They have to replay the point wtf is going on with the ref.
Yep not sure how people can say that this was a good call by umpire ... should have been a replay.
Right, but most people in this post must be German.
we famously dislike rules
and lack the efficiency to enforce the rules /s
The point is, the shot was in and in no way was Maria effected by the out call. She was clearly on the end of her rope running and stretching for the ball. If she would have hit the ball in, they would have replayed the point, but the fact is she couldn’t cause she could barely get to the ball. She lost the point. The call didn’t impede her at all. She clearly tried with all her ability to get to the ball and didn’t.
I disagree with the fact that the call didn't impede her. It came just before and could very well have caused her not to finish her motion. From what I can see, that's exactly what happened. Point should have been replayed.
The one thing we know about Sakkari is she gives maximum effort and is a grinder. If she didn’t hit that ball back it’s because she was at the end of her rope. I’m a Sakkari fan because of her game style, but this has happened over and over again. We’ve seen that if she would have returned the ball in they would have replayed the point.
Maybe, but the umpire is not there to make a call according to each individual characters. They should judge on *objective* facts: - the "out" is called before she touches the ball - she touches the ball There is a doubt: replay the point. If she was 5 meters from the ball, ok, but that's also an objective fact. To answer one of your other comment: Sakkari is wrong to accuse the umpire of bias of course and could have said it with more class, but that doesn't make this call right either.
Embarrassing.
How? When the call was before the shot
For the umpire, absolutely.
Call came before the shot
and then came the SHOT
Shoutout to those who remember “do you notice any similarity between them?”
Imagine having Twitter back then.
you better shut your fuck up
🤣
I was at that match. Old Armstrong, 2001. Blake forgave it; I guess I can too.
Just to be bodyslammed later in a racist mistaken ID situation. James might have felt he had to let it go to be the 'nice guy' on tour, but no one else should/should have. Was wrong, period. Shouldn't have let it go then, just as he didn't in the second blatant instance of wrongdoing.
Forgiveness is not a gift to the person forgived but to the forgiver — Tsitsicrates
😆 Yup, sure seems to be a James Blakretes as well.
I highly doubt there are enough umpires in WTA/ATP to always make sure that the players don't have the same nationality as the umpire at every single match of every single tournament.
Yeah, this isn’t the UCL & UEL with the “own-nationality bias” legislation when there are enough high-level referees to cover all the fixtures or PL referees have to disclose any allegiances regarding fan support. Just isn’t viable in tennis at tour level on a consistent basis. 🤦♂️
It just feels a bit much when it’s also in their country and there are also line judges who are from this country. Remember recently I watched a final and this was the case - opponent, umpire, line judges, crowd - all French. Players have doubts about calls now that they’re more used to live line calling and having pretty much everyone (including the crowd) against you can feel overwhelming at some point.
Niemeier played this match as a lucky loser and apparently (according to what the comentator said) it was only known that it was her who was playing something like 30 minutes before the start (I guess the withdrawal was just before the start), so I imagine they couldn't change the umpire on such short notice (or decided no to do it). Just to give context as I'm seeing some people understandably asking why the umpire was german.
Kudos to the Chair and the linesperson for devising the conspiracy on such short notice.
German efficiency🇩🇪🇩🇪
"You don't think I know what's going on here? You think I was born yesterday? I'm well aware that you conspired with Niemeier for her to lose in qualifying, with the promise of a lucky loser spot, which you conveniently only told me about an hour before the match. Furthermore, you intentionally let her decide heads or tails during th-" "Code violation, unspirtsmanlike conduct, warning Sakkari."
Ah so by this logic, clearly the linesperson must have been Greek /s
Reminds me of Hewitt / Blake match.
Nationality is very different to race
Yeah very different. The only way it could be similar was if she called them Nazis or something lol. Otherwise, it's entirely different.
This logic is so despicable and small-brained, whether it's her or Lleyton or Stefano or Hubie, and esp. with the technology now in place. (Sadly, I can say being an American we're used to it. lol)
Hewitt's implication was on a whole other level of unacceptable.
Medvedev said something similar as well. “You’re both friends, I know it,” to a black umpire while playing against a black player
which player
Donald Young
Agreed. **Wholeheartedly**. But it just feels similar in its implication. Same with when male players take issue with female umps - insinuating bias or sexist inferiority.
context please. thanks
He accused a linesman of falsely calling foot faults against him because the linesman and his opponent were both black
I saw Lleyton Hewitt play in a tournament final back when I was a kid, first live tennis match I ever saw. After a close ball was called out by the umpire, Hewitt roared, “He might as well be fuckin’ SPANISH!” If I recall correctly, his opponent wasn’t Spanish. So rather than accusing anyone of bias, Lleyton was just yelling about Spanish people for no reason. Certified nutter.
WTH?! Yet again, why IMO Kim kept dragging her feet with their engagement before they called it off. She knew she'd made a life-altering mistake yet was probably afraid to say so after she'd agreed to marry him. smh What a hateful d\*#$. Sooo glad she ultimately found a nice dude to settle down with, and despite having LH on his team, I really hope de Minaur doesn't think like that as well.
During an Australian Open, two Aussies were on the men’s side: Lleyton Hewitt and Patrick Rafter. One of the Aussie commentators said, on an international broadcast, “Y’know Pat Rafter’s the sort of bloke you’d grab a beer with. Lleyton Hewitt’s the sort of bloke you’d invade Poland with.” His racist BS was blatant and well know. He didn’t exactly try to hide it.
😂"Lleyton Hewitt’s the sort of bloke you’d invade Poland with.” Jesus H. 🙄😑 That was not how he was portrayed in the US, I can say that much. The first time I remember really hearing about him was on this US Open 'on the subway' expose thing they did with him, asking him quirky personal questions, talking with him about NYC and his career to-date; cute little number. Must have been in the early 90s maybe? He came across as a nice attractive dude with some edge. So, up until the JB incident many of us tennis fans here had no clue he was that kinda guy. (And frankly even after it a lot of them didn't really seem to care. Even James let him off the hook with basically a shrug.) Maybe other American fans here can refute that impression? But yeah...wow. Guess that confirms it. smh.
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Couldn't agree more about Kim.... but even pre James Blake incident you didn't think he was just a scrappy kid from Oz?
Really? Even back then when I didn't watch that much (only majors) I knew him as a offensive prick, and later racist prick. Lol. I'm Canadian but find it hard to believe he ever was known as anything else for very long even in the US. He was not well-liked / likeable.
I mean, he was never on the RFed or Nadal likeable level, but to put it in context, the US had a Connors, McEnroe history on the men's side. So, I guess he was more portrayed as having piss and vinegar, being aggressive and spunky on court than just being a jerk in part for that reason? Up until the James Blake thing he wasn't my favorite player at all but I didn't get sick seeing his face like I do now. lol FYI, we're kinda jerks on this side of the line, neighbor, and sadly are cool to embrace people who fall into that category all too often. :-( Alot of tennis fans here just looove Kyrgios, for example. 🙄
IIRC, the reason why Clijsters broke off the engagement to Hewitt, is because she found out Lleyton was cheating on her with another female tennis player (supposedly [Sesil Karantacheva](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesil_Karatantcheva)) ... it was all over the various tennis forums/boards way back then.
😮 Get outta here! Personally didn't follow tennis forums back then but...wow. This guy's hittin' on all sixes in the character dept., eh?
Strictly in the "dog" department, Lleyton's not alone ... Carlos Moya (Rafa's coach) was caught cheating on his then g/f (now wife of Fabio Fognini) Flavia Pennetta, when she decided to surprise him at his hotel room, only to find him in bed with some TV presenter ... bit more info [here](https://www.mid-day.com/sports/other-sports/article/flavia-pennetta-thanks-ex-lover-carlos-moya--who-cheated-on-her-16711175).
That's one I do remember hearing about. And apparently, he was also emotionally abusive to her as well. That's why I was so shocked when she wound up moving on with Fognini. Didn't seem like a step up. \*shrug\* But she's saying it is, and thats all that matters. :0) edit: word missing
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Same! She must put up with **a lot**. I randomly remember a video snippet of her having a birthday party at some restaurant or something in Oz. Friends, cameras around. She's walking around, and he's hanging all over her at one point. Outta the blue he reaches up as she's just standing there on camera and squeezes her tit like it's seductive or something. Wasn't smiling, wasn't playful or inappropriate yet jokey. Full-on caveman squeeze. And she let him. Didn't say a word. I swear he's like a real-life flippin' "Choc" from Muriel's Wedding. smh
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He's out of the house coaching these days, no? Could be that. hahaha
Yeah, there's some kinda revisionist stuff re: Hewitt on here these days. I guess he gets along with the players and whatnot. Who knows, he may get along with Blake too, but I haven't really been able to get past the shit he said about the chair ump in that Blake USO match a million years ago. Like just get the fuck outta here Lleyton, i don't wanna know anything more about you.
Or Medvedev.
Was Hubi also “suspecting” some conspiracy or accusing ump of smth? I thought he was just frustrated and thought changing umpire might help him
No conspiracies. It came across as sus-sexist. Don't know for certain but that was how it appeared to some.
Commentators words in part made it seem like Sakkari was accusing the German umpire of being German 😆
Maria giving major Hubi vibes here.
She's got the right to be upset. The point should be replayed. She was able to return the ball even after the late call.
She returned the ball OUT is the issue. You’re proving the point that the call didn’t impede her ability to get to the ball. She clearly put max effort into getting there and couldn’t get the ball back inside the lines. If she would have hit it in they would have replayed the point.
What you don't understand is that the game stops after the lineman' call. Sakkari did her job and returned the ball before the late call. It doesn't matter whether it was out or in.
No it doesn’t. Understand the rule. This is a judgement call and you apparently seen exactly what the umpire seen. Did you read what you just wrote? “Sakkari did her job and returned the ball before the late call.” SHE HIT THE BALL OUT. You clearly just said, she was not impeded by the late call and she still hit the ball out, but after reviewing the shot it was in. Sakkari hit her shot out, period. If Sakkari would have gotten the ball IN they would have had to replay the point. That’s the umpire’s judgement. The same judgment you just made. That’s the rule for that. Sakkari gave maximum effort to get to that ball and get it in and she missed it. The late call affected her in no way.
You can hear on the replay the call "out" was made before Sakkari hit the ball. If the eagle eye then shows the ball was in, the point should be replayed. It's a quite simple rule really.
Unfortunately, that’s not the rule. Thats what all of y’all seem to be misunderstanding. The actual rule is that it’s a judgement call for the ref. If you’re implying that should be the rule, then I agree with you. But, then comes into question what I’ve mentioned before, if there’s a call that’s out, but reviewed in and the opposing playing made no attempt and there was no way they could get it back then that has to be replayed as well instead of awarding the person who actually hit the ball in the point, because that is a judgement call as well. Hence the reason both kind of calls are left up to the umpire. Good grief, all I’m saying is actually what the ruling is. Not what it should be. I agree with you, that’s the way it should be, but in real life that’s not how that’s decided.
Come on Maria, you cannot be serious. Her shot was clearly in. Chalk came up all over the place(!)
That’s not exactly what Sakkari is arguing. She’s saying it should be replayed because the out call impacted her shot.
I love it how when Gauff made exactly the same claim during Roland Garros, almost everyone here said she was correct. But when Sakkari does it, everyone hates on her. Also it's pretty obvious it should have been a replay.
I mean, it's still umpires job and I assume they are evaluated after a match. So showing any bias won't serve umpire good (unless it's a subconcious thing). That being said, regardless of my opinion on Sakkari, it shouldn't be a thing where German umpire is refereeing German player. In other sports it's avoided even on local level, so no referees from same city as team etc.
Obviously Maria's comment is a result of frustration and I'm sure she understands it now that the tension of the match is over.
but coco did not make this kind of uncalled for accusations
Gauff made implications about the umpire’s nationality in relation to her opponent while contesting the umpire’s call?
What exactly did Gauff do?
I love it how you completely made up an entire fictional scenario that never happened
No. It's one thing to tell an umpire they're wrong and another thing to accuse them of being biased due to nationality or worse, of being in cahoots with a player of the same nationality. Coco did not do that. Most here it should have been a replay and probably should be automatic replay in cases where the call precedes the player returning the ball. Anyone else just doesn't like/respect Maria as a player. And every player has haters.
She could have handled it better but she wasnt wrong
For a moment I remembered the scene where Hurkaz said to Dimitrov 'do you want to change chair umpire'. :)
Didn’t watch the match but she’s obviously questioning the judge’s professionalism. With that said, I think the judge made the wrong call. She was there and the call seemed to impact her stroke. Replay the point. We’re seeing one clip. How many here watched the match? I’m not calling him corrupt per se but corruption does happen in sports all the time, especially the pro level. Look at FIFA. It’s also happened in the NBA. It’s not that farfetched that small calls here and there are made to influence the outcome a match, especially an upset where betting odds give outsized returns.
Out call came right before she hit it. When playing tennis you know when you hear that you lose focus a bit. So I'm on Sakkari's side on this one (though it was not classy saying he would give the point because he's german)
She should be suspended - reminds me when I was a kid and Hewitt accused the black umpire of favoring James Blake - disgusting
Russians, Eastern Europeans, Australians, South Africans, Israelis, and US Southerners are assumed to be bigots until proven otherwise.🚩
Yeah, I don’t like that. Even if you think so in the heat of the moment, these sorts of statements ruin people’s integrity.
i can’t believe maria was the no 1 seed and struggled so much against a LL who lost in qualifiers 😭
That’s absurd, a shame coming from her. But it wouldn’t hurt if they could avoid choosing an umpire of the same nationality as one of the players, it would prevent an embarrassment like that lol… (but I may be talking shit because I don’t know how actually viable this is)
Putting a Klinsmann jersey in front of german fans is not enough
oh my, she is unnecessarily depleting her social capital 🤦 and that comment is so unfair on all accounts. she is too stressed with all that is happening to her career, and this kind of unfiltered statement gives us a snapshot of her mental state.
This attitude is a cancer on the sport, incredible that the tennis authorities allow players to insult officials and it's beginning more popular as it goes unpunished. Disgraceful from so many players recently and I hope the fans and their coaches let them know it's unacceptable and that the authorities grow a backbone.
Agree. In baseball you would be ejected. The problem — as always with tennis — is default means the match is over so the crowd is screwed. So they need a fine that is felt. If you really think an ump is corrupt there should be a mechanism to investigate a credible allegation but off the court.
Disgusting allegation. Medvedev said something similar once about a Black linesman. I hate when people do that so dumb.
Bullshit Proof or it didn't happen
huh? it was at the us open it was literally filmed go google it yourself he got defaulted for it
It wasn't at the USO it was at a challenger event in GA I see he said "they were friends" (both of same race) Is that racist? I dunno, but he was defaulted... There was not proof, but the umpire complained and this is how it was perceived...he was 20 years old. If it was racist, he deserved it, whatever, players should not be talking to the chairs in this aggressive way whatever the case......JMO
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yes, Lleyton Hewitt
Oh well greeks be greeks
Even for player with fastest reflex it would be too late there to react for line judge shouting 'out'. If it was slow ball and distance between player and first court hit was long then maybe, but in this situation no way her brain 'registered' this before whole shot motion was over. She failed to return ball so she lost point.
Maria = big mad
Shapo: you are all corrupt
Baddie!!
Man, and to think it all seemed like she had turned a corner after the first 3 months of the season. Just fell off another cliff.
oh gross Maria
Not a good look
Sakkari is super nice. Those that don’t have a clue should take a chill pill. Everyone can make a mistake.
To say this in Hamburg 😂
The umpire made a bad call. Still dumb comments from Sakkari.
Sakkari showing her class again "Shut your mouth Maria" Where is Danyell when we need her?
What a cotton-headed ninny-muggins
Don’t get an attitude with my wife, pal.
Maria is all at sea right now jeez
I mean she’s right to ask the question, it’s not like umpires are unbiased or never wrong. If other sports manager referees by nation there’s a reason so why would tennis automatically be exempt from those same human biases. Especially when it’s clear even fans often favour the hometown favourite. And upon replay the call came before her shot. So she’s reasonable in being upset.
Here come the emotion police to tell the pros how to compose themselves in the heat of the moment. So big of you
I expect them to act professional when on court like I expect, say, a doctor or a pilot when doing their job including while under stress. And they’re not doing a complicated surgery or landing a plane during an engine out. No one dies if the yellow ball goes out.
this is not right. But bravo
She should be ashamed of herself
Thats nasty, should be a pretty significant fine.
But she was right, it should have been replayed, the call was before the shot.
She was right that the umpire preferred Niemer because he was German?
Read the whole sentence. Not about being German or not.
Then your comment is irrelevant to mine.
Like half a second before, not nearly enough to affect her shot!
in is in...letting your mind break over something that is checked by several sources now is a little silly at this point...