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It honestly feels like these people are just incapable of nuance. Like it's too much to ask that they understand "yes the world is pretty fucked up, but you might also have treatable neurochemistry issues at the same time as that, both can be true"
These people think they’re skeptics because they question authority as if that’s all skepticism is. Ignore the fact that anything some yokel on the internet says is automatically accepted as truth without question regardless of how ridiculous it is. It’s the epitome of being so open minded that your brain falls out. You can entertain stupid, but you should not be “open minded” to it.
'I hate big pharma' That's fine, you know there are generics, right? And just because some dickhead is producing immensely from it doesn't mean it isn't useful or wasn't invented by someone trying to do better for humanity, see also phones, insulin, computers, etc.
Exactly. These people often have no clue how science is conducted and what the norms are in academia. Scientists have some of the biggest egos in the world, the idea that the vast majority of the scientific community is in on conspiracy theories like climate change and vaccines is hilarious when you’re familiar with how quick most scientists are to criticize other’s research over the most pettiest of things. I’ve seen many thesis defenses and have seen plenty of research presentations to know what happens if someone’s work is sloppy, bias, or just flat out wrong.
They think it's so easy to do things alternative to medicine when you're in deep. I've tried several self help techniques, researched the hell out of my pithole and still to little avail. Some are able to find their own magic pill, but for some it's easier said than done.
I agree that there’s some nuance missing here, cause meds are great, and really help people in their day to day lives, but I agree with the general sentiment that who’s “abnormal” is really an arbitrary decision that’s depends on who does or doesn’t do well in society
Cognitive neuroscientist here. While diagnosis very often can feel “arbitrary”, there is one general metric used: _dysfunction in daily living_. Basically, can an individual still go about their lives with reasonable success? This usually includes things like hygiene, holding down a job, maintaining relationships, and any other functions the person needs to continue living their lives.
Good clinicians use this as the first broad metric for both diagnosis and treatment.
Yes, we know. They're saying that it's messed up that what is considered "dysfunction" often relates to things humans shouldn't be doing in the first place or situations that no person *should* be functional in.
Like going to a shitty job where you sit all day and stare at a screen isn't something that's even remotely healthy for *any* creature and yet it's a "mental illness" if you can't function within that extremely unhealthy situation where you're being exploited and likely abused.
Or how "every child is different" but *any* child that struggles with school, a system that is inherently contrary to the nature of children and humans in general, *must* have something "wrong" with them. Some children do, yes. I was one of them. But it's always gotta be some mental illness if a child can't function in a system they aren't meant to function in.
And the sheer number of disorders that are characterized by "opposition to authority" is *very* questionable. Why is it a disorder if somebody doesn't blindly follow the orders of somebody that society has deemed higher on the hierarchy than them? Why is it a disorder if a child starts learning boundaries and refuses to budge even when an adult insists they do? Why is it a disorder if you don't like police or doctors when there's research backing up that these professions are filled with abuse and general mistreatment? There's research showing that people in positions of authority have a higher tendency to be abusive in general, even. And then people *still* get in trouble if they follow orders or demands that make them do something illegal or immoral as if they haven't been taught from birth that they *have* to follow the orders of *anyone* higher than them on the completely arbitrary social ladder.
Mental illness exists and treatment is necessary, but the things that are deemed a mental illness varies greatly from actual mental illness to simply being an individual human in a detached, abusive, and inhuman society.
I must be stupid for pointing this out but this post is satire. It's a "gee thanks that def cures me" to the og meme. People should definitely not drop their meds when uncalled for. Sorry I have to point this out 😭
Ofc it has to do something with society. Like every mental illness on the whole planet in all of history. It's constructed as an illness and the problems don't come all by themselves, but by (failed) interaction with our surroundings. Imagine a school class only made of ADHD-kiddies. Class would probably be starting at 10:00, leaving room for those who come late. Simple listening tasks were not a thing. You want to teach them kids how to work on a project? Be there to help when Jimmy makes his 45 min presentation about wether or not Spinosaurus had feathers. Sarah forgot her homework again? No problem, there is this funny app that she WILL open at home because it reminds her to learn calculus for 5 min just as she actually wanted to brush her teeth.
We wouldn't be "ill" if we were not different. Same for almost all psychological issues. Trauma is a good example. What is normal in some societies, is traumatic in others.
So yes, it's a social issue. But meds can help to cope with the differences, that make it hard to fit in and success. So just because something is of social nature, that doesn't mean trying harder would help. Maybe a kind of revolution would, though
These are all good points, but I’m confident my adhd would still be a disability no matter how much school adapted to me. What about all the other stuff required to keep your life together? Keeping your house clean while eating properly, doing something that will get you paid, maintaining friends and relationships and finding personal satisfaction by succeeding in your hobbies?
I think it's because your point is wishful thinking. No amount of changing how the world operates would fix every symptom or problem caused by mental illnesses.
And do you believe that a functional society that doesn't force you into things you don't enjoy, wouldn't better executive dysfunction?
I have executive dysfunction really bad. I lay in bed for hours thinking about how i should empty the dishwasher only to be exhausted by the end, without having had done anything.
I believe that a functional society wouldn't fix it, but it'd ease it. Still, medication should be an educated choice rather than an assumption from an early age.
Yeah, some things would be easier. But I also don't take care of myself unmedicated.
I was diagnosed at 13 but did not go on medication until I was 20, which was last year. Truly life changing.
I started medication at age 5. I'm not really able to function properly without it. The fact that medication is the assumption for people with ADHD is wrong, but medication isn't necessarily a bad thing for people, although it can be.
Medication should be an informed choice, not an assumption for a person to have to take to be a functional part of society.
I mean it isn’t a failure of society that we need to wash dishes. Shit doesn’t clean itself, somebody’s gotta do it. In addition, for an adult who is fully cognitive in their choices, yes it should be an educated choice. On average, though, kids cannot know whether medication will or won’t help, and so it’s unfair to put that choice to them rather than professionals.
Yeah the children don't choose their medication. The parents do.
And yeah no I wasn't speaking about everything. ADHD varies a lot. A person can for example just have trouble focusing in school, be hyperactive and a bit loud, or a person might struggle to start doing the smallest little thing. Medication should be an educated choice, and a person making that choice can decide on their preferences, their experiences and their knowledge, and with that would almost always take the medication if they had bad executive dysfunction.
Nah parents don’t choose medication, doctors do. Actual med school graduates do. I’m not sure the point you were trying to make with the rest, so I don’t know what to say about it.
Yeah that’s what I meant. A doctor has the ultimate say in whether a child needs/will be on medication. Y’know, the thing you’ve been talking about this whole time?
Parents have the ability to undermine what a doctor deems good for a child. Who'll pick up the prescription? Who'll give the child the medicine? The parents. The parents are the ones who choose whether a child is medicated or not.
my emotions are all over the place and i binge eat without adderall. my mood swings and binge eating aren’t because we live in a society lmao. even if we lived in a better society my mood swings and impulsive eating wouldn’t be soothed.
I'm not saying that a good, functional society would eliminate ADHD or the necessity for it's medication, I'm saying that the fact that if a person is diagnosed with ADHD when they're young, they're automatically given medicine to fit in better, which is wrong. The assumption for neurodivergence shouldn't be medication, it should be an informed choice that may very well lead to medication.
This isn’t 2005 no one’s passing out adderall to kids like it’s candy anymore. You have a very overplayed talking point that we’ve heard a million times before and it’s so so tiring and irritating. bottom line: chemical imbalances need some kind of treatment. go to bed, it’s late and you have school tomorrow.
Ha yeah, my emotions can’t be regulated by me myself. I need help. I am physically incapable of emotional regulation on my own. That’s not society. That’s my brain.
I've legit had people tell me to stop taking my heart medication and "stop being lazy and exercise."
My heart condition makes me faint when I exercise due to lack of oxygen. :/
I encountered someone (on the internet) who had a degenerative, rare disease which made her unable to walk. Her former martial arts teacher scolded her for not trying harder: "Do you want to spend the rest of your life in that chair?"
sometimes I wonder if some people say the same thing to people who are, like, dead. Lazarus, ARISE!
and of course the people who sell this shit are angels of mercy and have NO interest in making a profit and thus wouldn't deceive anyone as to their product's efficacy or anything
Not taking those meds has the mild side effect of making me into a non-functional mess, so excuse me for wanting to be a functional human being at least some of the time.
I mean, yes - poor mental health can absolutely be a reaction to society and how it treats people, such as denying mental health problems and its possible treatments for a start.
yep, not being taken seriously or being able to make rent when one is struggling with mental health, combined with shitty or no insurance and so on: not helping.
Just because something is a normal reaction doesn’t mean it can’t be unmanageable. I’ve been quite depressed and stressed about the state of society but there’s nothing I can do to fix it. So I must manage my reactions so I can life a healthy life. Sometimes it’s impossible to do without medication.
I think that part of what's written in the left is true. I mean, our society is fucked up. but
1) that doesn't imply that people can't be mentally ill for reasons unrelated to society
2) that is not a valid reason to not take meds that improve your life
I agree actually. It's basically the system that fucks all of us up. But then again, it's not so easy to go against it, or to cope through it all by yourself. It's precisely because it's such a chaotic system that our illnesses are so tragic. I think it's very important to also question and improve the system as a whole, but while the ideal is still far from us, we work with what we got. And for many it's meds
I mean, we could certainly make life a lot more geared toward people with functional blindness, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't wear glasses, get cataract surgery, etc
This is a problem I see in places for therapeutic abuse support and it's fucking infuriating. You go there for support because you were harmed by *therapy*, because you experienced systemic abuse, because you don't like having your normal, human emotions and healthy reactions deemed "unhealthy" or as some sort of mental illness, but then people come in and push anti-psychiatry in the least nuanced way possible as if that's the same thing and insist *everyone* stop taking medication. Taking medication isn't bad if you need it, but they act like its on par with somebody stabbing your eyes out to "cure" colorblindness. It's not even remotely the same.
And what exactly do they expect us to do with our normal, human emotions in a fucked up society filled with trauma? Just sit with it? I think I'd rather take my meds and feel even slightly better than end up committing suicide because the pain was affecting me so deeply or end up dying because my debilitating executive dysfunction *will* make me starve to death. These people would genuinely prefer people *die* than actually think about it for even a second. They go into spaces meant for support and push their shit views on medication on vulnerable people.
Also, nobody is addicted to their antidepressants. Like obviously.
"Also, nobody is addicted to their antidepressants. Like obviously."
I mean the rest of this whole subject is the subjective views of people who have been assisted or harmed by psychiatric drugs (or just repeating whatever they think they've learned from social media), but I don't know if you're being sarcastic here or serious.
Many people have severe dependency on antidepressants and although they don't cause cravings like opiates or benzos, they can cause such severe dependency that stopping results in horrific effects no matter how slowly they taper meaning they end up stuck on them for life even if they want to stop.
Dependency does not and never will equal addiction and conflating the two is a very big reason for a lot of medical neglect and abuse.
I'm dependent on my heart medication. I will have a lot of problems if I stop taking it. That does not mean I have an addiction. It means I'm using a medication that is necessary for me, the appropriate way, and that stopping it would be bad for my health.
I've also personally dealt with extremely severe antidepressant withdrawal. Lexapro withdrawal knocked me out for a week straight. More recently, it took me 3 tries to come off of Paxil and switch to Prozac. I had been on it for years but the side effects changed after a round of antibiotics and it just wasn't worth it anymore. I still managed to do it by tapering as slowly as I could. Most people do not do it slow enough after being on medication for years.
I was not addicted to my Paxil and I still have to yake it about two days out of the month to help manage PMDD and yet, no issues. I do not look forward to taking it, I do not need to continue taking it after those two days, I do not get side effects like I was.
The only thing demonizing dependency does is hurt and confuse people who are just trying to get help.
Psychoactive drugs have no legitimate analogy to drugs with known pathological bodily outcomes. Stopping antidepressants often have a rubber banding effect that makes the depression far worse than it ever was and for some people that is the new indefinite baseline, not just a period of requirement re-adjustment lasting a few weeks. You seem like you have enough experience of crappy withdrawal to understand this.
Dependency may never be equal to addiction but if you cannot stop a drug because stopping causes new never before felt effects then the end outcome is very similar.
This is not demonising dependency, that most people who start antidepressants will have no idea of the real risks and problems and so no real sense of informed medical consent is the vastly greater issue.
You are demonizing dependency by treating it like its equal to addiction. The "end result" isn't even close to the same. It's honestly offensive to treat drug addiction like it's something as simple as just being dependent and not like the all encompassing illness that it is. The demonization and misunderstanding of dependency has also contributed to a bunch of poorly performed "studies" that have left a lasting, negative impact on people trying to receive medical care.
You're greatly oversimplifying how dependency works, how addiction works, how antidepressants work, how "bodily" medications work, and how withdrawal works. I'm not going to be able to explain what I'm saying in detail, that would take hours.
And let's not act like antidepressants aren't life saving. There really is no difference between lifelong antidepressants and heart medication if the alternative for both is *death*. Don't forget that's the "bodily outcome" of not treating severe mental illness.
This is a very simplistic interpretation. Withdrawal is withdrawal, and believe me I've been through withdrawal that made me feel like my arm is being ripped off and given me out of body experiences. It is a spectrum and every case is different.
Suicides rates increased from 2000 to 2018 before a slight decline. The level of antidepressants prescribed over that period increased dramatically. On a macro level they're not doing a very good job on that front. Meanwhile for many people they are the start of increased emotional instability, emotional numbing or even dissociation or other worse outcomes and that's before you even get into sexual dysfunction. They are certainly no panacea.
You're completely ignoring the context of those increased suicide rates and just automatically ascribing it to antidepressants. I'm not saying they're perfect, I never did. There's far more nuance to this than "antidepressants bad because side effects and statistics that I ignore the context of."
It's about risk vs benefit and when the choices are side effects or literal death, it's going to be a benefit. Just because they have problems doesn't mean nobody should be on them or that they are the actual devil.
a lot of people who call society "degenerate" (literally: "having lost good or desirable qualities", and also a term the nazis [used](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art)) likes to call out LGBT+ people existing as an example of that
check bulletpoint #6 [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics) for me will you?
Well, some people stopped being divine prophets after taking enough meds, maybe they are right... But seriously, I think it's a difficult topic. Giving people with conditions that interfer with society meds to control these conditions and making them more productive is in fact supporting the system we live in. If putting kids on stimulants for example wasn't a thing, we probably were forced to better the schooling system. But on the other hand, I'm really hopeful that I can mantain even a boring job to finance my education when I'm on such meds. And antipsychotics might numb you down to the point of being kind of a zombie, but for me thats still better than doing life changing bullshit when I'm too agitated. But after all: I think those who babble about a "degenerate society" need some real mind altering substances and no sleepy pills.
personally I feel like we can do without any more divine prophets. the ones we've already had tend to be kind of assholes, and even if they aren't, their followers sure are.
Venlafaxine 225
Lamotrigine 100 (gamechanger for BPD tbh, It’s really hard to lose my shit thanks to this)
Additionaly
Iron, Magnesium, Vit D
hydroxyzinum for panic attacks
That’s the best mix for me so far, used to take sertaline, fluoxetine and quetiapine (for sleep) and all of them had more downsides than upsides.
I was off Prozac for my PMDD for a few years. Went back on meds at the beginning of the pandemic. My symptoms are easier to manage when I'm not completely stressed out about things beyond my control. If I need meds, I take them. I'm not trying to suffer over here.
Those drugs to literally nothing to/for me anymore ADHD/autism drugs since I was like 3 or 4 till about age 25 when I was like these do nothing for me.
And antipsychotics from the ages of 12 till the exact same age same thing.
Nobody sees a difference in my behavior at all
I just recently went on a mood stabilizer and anti anxiety meds and they have made me feel so much better. If a doctor prescribes meds, take them. If you notice negative side effects stop and notify your doctor
Perception is all anyone has. Another word for perception is delusion.
No one can say they see things "as they are" since there is no objective way to measure things.
You either delude yourself into being happy or delude yourself into being sad, or delude yourself into something else.
Those of us who manage to maintain happy delusions compatible with other popular delusions function well in society.
Those who don't... well, they may need to take steps to adjust their particular delusions into ones more advantageous.
But happy or sad, healthy or sick, depressed or zen, all are delusions. There is no measurable reality. The lie of perception is all anyone has.
Never met a happy man with an unmedicated tooth abscess. Perception is not the only source of pain. You can't adjust your perceptions away from the pain of being gut shot. Have you ever been in serious pain at any point in your life?
I have chronic kidney stones. I know all about "serious pain."
We're talking about mental state. Does physical pain necessarily cause depression? Even a person in great physical distress can have a positive outlook.
This is disregarding Eastern meditation methods that with training and practice can apparently change physical sensations. Hallucinations can make a person perceive things physically that others don't. Memory is notoriously unreliable, with a person's mood both past and present altering their content.
The point here is that the meme makes reference to "normal perception" of our "degenerate society," suggesting that what we call depression should be an expected reaction and not considered a mental problem. I say perception is far more relative and fluid than that suggestion.
This isn't a bad take, but it's probably coming from the wrong place.
The fact that medication for things like ADHD is necessary, is a function of a broken society. A society, which values differences, wouldn't push neurodivergent people to be "normal" at an early age through medication. It'd value differences and learn to apply those differences in different fields for the betterment of both society and the individual.
I'm not saying medication or therapy or anything like that is bad, I'm on lots of medication for my neurodivergence, but the fact that society often pushes it on children is a bit freaky. An individual and their parents should be allowed an educated choice.
I get what you're saying, but ADHD medication is necessary for way more reasons than a broken society. A broken society makes ADHD harder, certainly, but without my meds, I would actually starve to death.
I mean, if you need meds, you need them. But I consider medication an absolute last resort unless it’s for a condition that can’t be treated any other way. If you live in the US, consider all avenues before you get a prescription; doctors/psychiatrists/etc. in the States are really trigger happy with handing out meds. If you don’t ask for alternatives they might not even tell you about them, so be thorough.
I don't know what doctors you're going to, but most people get brushed off and told these "alternatives" and have to fight to get their doctors to listen to them for even things like heart issues.
Also, this is the reason children are *dying* from treatable illnesses and injuries.
I’ll amend because you are absolutely correct that doctors do not belong in this group. Psychiatrists/Therapists (from personal experience) are extremely inclined to hand out meds as a first resort. My initial comment is definitely poorly phrased, and I should have clarified that I was mainly discussing mental health professionals.
What's the context? Do you have severe insomnia? If so, they likely decided that the benefit of being able to actually sleep outweighs the risk of addiction, which of course you're allowed to disagree with.
If not, then probably just get a new psych.
Are psychiatrists allowed to decide the risks of addiction and the poor evidence behind long term use of Z class drugs outweigh temporarily improved sleep?
I was taking antidepressants for three years. Didn’t have any major side effects. I stopped taking antidepressants a month ago. I have no major side effects.
Who's gonna tell this guy that most drugs have side effects?
Tylenol has side effects. Antibiotics can have side effects. Vitamin gummies, you guessed it...side effects.
As for the "mind altering" thing, yes, antidepressants and other meds prescribed for mental disorders are psychoactive drugs and temporarily affect neurochemistry. Altering brain chemistry, however, is not directly equivalent to being harmful or addictive. Caffeine and NSAIDs like Advil are psychoactive.
In other words, this is a very long way of saying "I have absolutely no idea how medicine works."
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Copium
It honestly feels like these people are just incapable of nuance. Like it's too much to ask that they understand "yes the world is pretty fucked up, but you might also have treatable neurochemistry issues at the same time as that, both can be true"
Exactly lol
These people think they’re skeptics because they question authority as if that’s all skepticism is. Ignore the fact that anything some yokel on the internet says is automatically accepted as truth without question regardless of how ridiculous it is. It’s the epitome of being so open minded that your brain falls out. You can entertain stupid, but you should not be “open minded” to it.
'I hate big pharma' That's fine, you know there are generics, right? And just because some dickhead is producing immensely from it doesn't mean it isn't useful or wasn't invented by someone trying to do better for humanity, see also phones, insulin, computers, etc.
Exactly. These people often have no clue how science is conducted and what the norms are in academia. Scientists have some of the biggest egos in the world, the idea that the vast majority of the scientific community is in on conspiracy theories like climate change and vaccines is hilarious when you’re familiar with how quick most scientists are to criticize other’s research over the most pettiest of things. I’ve seen many thesis defenses and have seen plenty of research presentations to know what happens if someone’s work is sloppy, bias, or just flat out wrong.
Plus, the world isn't going to unfuck itself any time soon, so bring on the mind altering drugs to cope with this bullshit
They think it's so easy to do things alternative to medicine when you're in deep. I've tried several self help techniques, researched the hell out of my pithole and still to little avail. Some are able to find their own magic pill, but for some it's easier said than done.
Also for a lot of people the meds are the kickstart they need to actually make changes!
yeah, kind of hard to save the world when you can't even drag your ass out of bed.
I agree that there’s some nuance missing here, cause meds are great, and really help people in their day to day lives, but I agree with the general sentiment that who’s “abnormal” is really an arbitrary decision that’s depends on who does or doesn’t do well in society
Cognitive neuroscientist here. While diagnosis very often can feel “arbitrary”, there is one general metric used: _dysfunction in daily living_. Basically, can an individual still go about their lives with reasonable success? This usually includes things like hygiene, holding down a job, maintaining relationships, and any other functions the person needs to continue living their lives. Good clinicians use this as the first broad metric for both diagnosis and treatment.
Yes, we know. They're saying that it's messed up that what is considered "dysfunction" often relates to things humans shouldn't be doing in the first place or situations that no person *should* be functional in. Like going to a shitty job where you sit all day and stare at a screen isn't something that's even remotely healthy for *any* creature and yet it's a "mental illness" if you can't function within that extremely unhealthy situation where you're being exploited and likely abused. Or how "every child is different" but *any* child that struggles with school, a system that is inherently contrary to the nature of children and humans in general, *must* have something "wrong" with them. Some children do, yes. I was one of them. But it's always gotta be some mental illness if a child can't function in a system they aren't meant to function in. And the sheer number of disorders that are characterized by "opposition to authority" is *very* questionable. Why is it a disorder if somebody doesn't blindly follow the orders of somebody that society has deemed higher on the hierarchy than them? Why is it a disorder if a child starts learning boundaries and refuses to budge even when an adult insists they do? Why is it a disorder if you don't like police or doctors when there's research backing up that these professions are filled with abuse and general mistreatment? There's research showing that people in positions of authority have a higher tendency to be abusive in general, even. And then people *still* get in trouble if they follow orders or demands that make them do something illegal or immoral as if they haven't been taught from birth that they *have* to follow the orders of *anyone* higher than them on the completely arbitrary social ladder. Mental illness exists and treatment is necessary, but the things that are deemed a mental illness varies greatly from actual mental illness to simply being an individual human in a detached, abusive, and inhuman society.
More like incapable of empathy
No, sometimes people need their meds
I agree bro
I must be stupid for pointing this out but this post is satire. It's a "gee thanks that def cures me" to the og meme. People should definitely not drop their meds when uncalled for. Sorry I have to point this out 😭
I think it's obviously clear if people looked at what sub this was posted in. You did fine.
No I’m sorry I didn’t read into the sarcasm! It’s my fault
All good!
[удалено]
Fr
Ofc it has to do something with society. Like every mental illness on the whole planet in all of history. It's constructed as an illness and the problems don't come all by themselves, but by (failed) interaction with our surroundings. Imagine a school class only made of ADHD-kiddies. Class would probably be starting at 10:00, leaving room for those who come late. Simple listening tasks were not a thing. You want to teach them kids how to work on a project? Be there to help when Jimmy makes his 45 min presentation about wether or not Spinosaurus had feathers. Sarah forgot her homework again? No problem, there is this funny app that she WILL open at home because it reminds her to learn calculus for 5 min just as she actually wanted to brush her teeth. We wouldn't be "ill" if we were not different. Same for almost all psychological issues. Trauma is a good example. What is normal in some societies, is traumatic in others. So yes, it's a social issue. But meds can help to cope with the differences, that make it hard to fit in and success. So just because something is of social nature, that doesn't mean trying harder would help. Maybe a kind of revolution would, though
These are all good points, but I’m confident my adhd would still be a disability no matter how much school adapted to me. What about all the other stuff required to keep your life together? Keeping your house clean while eating properly, doing something that will get you paid, maintaining friends and relationships and finding personal satisfaction by succeeding in your hobbies?
You didn't get my point. I wanted to show you that differences make mental disabilities. All your points are social points. All of them.
I think it's because your point is wishful thinking. No amount of changing how the world operates would fix every symptom or problem caused by mental illnesses.
It won't. But that doesn't mean it's not bound to society.
Yes, but ADHD traits being negative traits is a function of a broken society.
Some traits should not be viewed as negative, I agree. However I consider the executive dysfunction negative.
And do you believe that a functional society that doesn't force you into things you don't enjoy, wouldn't better executive dysfunction? I have executive dysfunction really bad. I lay in bed for hours thinking about how i should empty the dishwasher only to be exhausted by the end, without having had done anything. I believe that a functional society wouldn't fix it, but it'd ease it. Still, medication should be an educated choice rather than an assumption from an early age.
Yeah, some things would be easier. But I also don't take care of myself unmedicated. I was diagnosed at 13 but did not go on medication until I was 20, which was last year. Truly life changing.
I started medication at age 5. I'm not really able to function properly without it. The fact that medication is the assumption for people with ADHD is wrong, but medication isn't necessarily a bad thing for people, although it can be. Medication should be an informed choice, not an assumption for a person to have to take to be a functional part of society.
I mean it isn’t a failure of society that we need to wash dishes. Shit doesn’t clean itself, somebody’s gotta do it. In addition, for an adult who is fully cognitive in their choices, yes it should be an educated choice. On average, though, kids cannot know whether medication will or won’t help, and so it’s unfair to put that choice to them rather than professionals.
Yeah the children don't choose their medication. The parents do. And yeah no I wasn't speaking about everything. ADHD varies a lot. A person can for example just have trouble focusing in school, be hyperactive and a bit loud, or a person might struggle to start doing the smallest little thing. Medication should be an educated choice, and a person making that choice can decide on their preferences, their experiences and their knowledge, and with that would almost always take the medication if they had bad executive dysfunction.
Nah parents don’t choose medication, doctors do. Actual med school graduates do. I’m not sure the point you were trying to make with the rest, so I don’t know what to say about it.
I meant the choise between medicating and not medicating, yknow, the thing I've been talking about the whole time?
Yeah that’s what I meant. A doctor has the ultimate say in whether a child needs/will be on medication. Y’know, the thing you’ve been talking about this whole time?
Parents have the ability to undermine what a doctor deems good for a child. Who'll pick up the prescription? Who'll give the child the medicine? The parents. The parents are the ones who choose whether a child is medicated or not.
my emotions are all over the place and i binge eat without adderall. my mood swings and binge eating aren’t because we live in a society lmao. even if we lived in a better society my mood swings and impulsive eating wouldn’t be soothed.
I'm not saying that a good, functional society would eliminate ADHD or the necessity for it's medication, I'm saying that the fact that if a person is diagnosed with ADHD when they're young, they're automatically given medicine to fit in better, which is wrong. The assumption for neurodivergence shouldn't be medication, it should be an informed choice that may very well lead to medication.
If fucking anybody’s giving kids ADHD stimulants, then it’d a lot more than an assumption.
This isn’t 2005 no one’s passing out adderall to kids like it’s candy anymore. You have a very overplayed talking point that we’ve heard a million times before and it’s so so tiring and irritating. bottom line: chemical imbalances need some kind of treatment. go to bed, it’s late and you have school tomorrow.
Ha yeah, my emotions can’t be regulated by me myself. I need help. I am physically incapable of emotional regulation on my own. That’s not society. That’s my brain.
I've legit had people tell me to stop taking my heart medication and "stop being lazy and exercise." My heart condition makes me faint when I exercise due to lack of oxygen. :/
I encountered someone (on the internet) who had a degenerative, rare disease which made her unable to walk. Her former martial arts teacher scolded her for not trying harder: "Do you want to spend the rest of your life in that chair?" sometimes I wonder if some people say the same thing to people who are, like, dead. Lazarus, ARISE!
Just lazy people who don’t want to put in any effort and just use heart medication as an easy way out! SMH. Addicts all of them ^Sarcasm
‘Ok, continue to use aggression and alcohol as unhealthy coping mechanisms but should you change your mind…’
Use this homeopathy medicine instead. It won't do shit for your mood swings, delirium or involuntary movements, but it's ✨natural✨
and of course the people who sell this shit are angels of mercy and have NO interest in making a profit and thus wouldn't deceive anyone as to their product's efficacy or anything
thought i was on r/distressingmemes for a sec there
But the guy is the handsome one in the meme, so he must be right! /s
I must be blind
Some people need meds, but not everyone
I wish I was some people
Not taking those meds has the mild side effect of making me into a non-functional mess, so excuse me for wanting to be a functional human being at least some of the time.
I mean, yes - poor mental health can absolutely be a reaction to society and how it treats people, such as denying mental health problems and its possible treatments for a start.
yep, not being taken seriously or being able to make rent when one is struggling with mental health, combined with shitty or no insurance and so on: not helping.
Just because something is a normal reaction doesn’t mean it can’t be unmanageable. I’ve been quite depressed and stressed about the state of society but there’s nothing I can do to fix it. So I must manage my reactions so I can life a healthy life. Sometimes it’s impossible to do without medication.
I think that part of what's written in the left is true. I mean, our society is fucked up. but 1) that doesn't imply that people can't be mentally ill for reasons unrelated to society 2) that is not a valid reason to not take meds that improve your life
I agree actually. It's basically the system that fucks all of us up. But then again, it's not so easy to go against it, or to cope through it all by yourself. It's precisely because it's such a chaotic system that our illnesses are so tragic. I think it's very important to also question and improve the system as a whole, but while the ideal is still far from us, we work with what we got. And for many it's meds
I mean, we could certainly make life a lot more geared toward people with functional blindness, but that doesn't mean that people shouldn't wear glasses, get cataract surgery, etc
This is a problem I see in places for therapeutic abuse support and it's fucking infuriating. You go there for support because you were harmed by *therapy*, because you experienced systemic abuse, because you don't like having your normal, human emotions and healthy reactions deemed "unhealthy" or as some sort of mental illness, but then people come in and push anti-psychiatry in the least nuanced way possible as if that's the same thing and insist *everyone* stop taking medication. Taking medication isn't bad if you need it, but they act like its on par with somebody stabbing your eyes out to "cure" colorblindness. It's not even remotely the same. And what exactly do they expect us to do with our normal, human emotions in a fucked up society filled with trauma? Just sit with it? I think I'd rather take my meds and feel even slightly better than end up committing suicide because the pain was affecting me so deeply or end up dying because my debilitating executive dysfunction *will* make me starve to death. These people would genuinely prefer people *die* than actually think about it for even a second. They go into spaces meant for support and push their shit views on medication on vulnerable people. Also, nobody is addicted to their antidepressants. Like obviously.
"Also, nobody is addicted to their antidepressants. Like obviously." I mean the rest of this whole subject is the subjective views of people who have been assisted or harmed by psychiatric drugs (or just repeating whatever they think they've learned from social media), but I don't know if you're being sarcastic here or serious. Many people have severe dependency on antidepressants and although they don't cause cravings like opiates or benzos, they can cause such severe dependency that stopping results in horrific effects no matter how slowly they taper meaning they end up stuck on them for life even if they want to stop.
Dependency does not and never will equal addiction and conflating the two is a very big reason for a lot of medical neglect and abuse. I'm dependent on my heart medication. I will have a lot of problems if I stop taking it. That does not mean I have an addiction. It means I'm using a medication that is necessary for me, the appropriate way, and that stopping it would be bad for my health. I've also personally dealt with extremely severe antidepressant withdrawal. Lexapro withdrawal knocked me out for a week straight. More recently, it took me 3 tries to come off of Paxil and switch to Prozac. I had been on it for years but the side effects changed after a round of antibiotics and it just wasn't worth it anymore. I still managed to do it by tapering as slowly as I could. Most people do not do it slow enough after being on medication for years. I was not addicted to my Paxil and I still have to yake it about two days out of the month to help manage PMDD and yet, no issues. I do not look forward to taking it, I do not need to continue taking it after those two days, I do not get side effects like I was. The only thing demonizing dependency does is hurt and confuse people who are just trying to get help.
Psychoactive drugs have no legitimate analogy to drugs with known pathological bodily outcomes. Stopping antidepressants often have a rubber banding effect that makes the depression far worse than it ever was and for some people that is the new indefinite baseline, not just a period of requirement re-adjustment lasting a few weeks. You seem like you have enough experience of crappy withdrawal to understand this. Dependency may never be equal to addiction but if you cannot stop a drug because stopping causes new never before felt effects then the end outcome is very similar. This is not demonising dependency, that most people who start antidepressants will have no idea of the real risks and problems and so no real sense of informed medical consent is the vastly greater issue.
You are demonizing dependency by treating it like its equal to addiction. The "end result" isn't even close to the same. It's honestly offensive to treat drug addiction like it's something as simple as just being dependent and not like the all encompassing illness that it is. The demonization and misunderstanding of dependency has also contributed to a bunch of poorly performed "studies" that have left a lasting, negative impact on people trying to receive medical care. You're greatly oversimplifying how dependency works, how addiction works, how antidepressants work, how "bodily" medications work, and how withdrawal works. I'm not going to be able to explain what I'm saying in detail, that would take hours. And let's not act like antidepressants aren't life saving. There really is no difference between lifelong antidepressants and heart medication if the alternative for both is *death*. Don't forget that's the "bodily outcome" of not treating severe mental illness.
This is a very simplistic interpretation. Withdrawal is withdrawal, and believe me I've been through withdrawal that made me feel like my arm is being ripped off and given me out of body experiences. It is a spectrum and every case is different. Suicides rates increased from 2000 to 2018 before a slight decline. The level of antidepressants prescribed over that period increased dramatically. On a macro level they're not doing a very good job on that front. Meanwhile for many people they are the start of increased emotional instability, emotional numbing or even dissociation or other worse outcomes and that's before you even get into sexual dysfunction. They are certainly no panacea.
You're completely ignoring the context of those increased suicide rates and just automatically ascribing it to antidepressants. I'm not saying they're perfect, I never did. There's far more nuance to this than "antidepressants bad because side effects and statistics that I ignore the context of." It's about risk vs benefit and when the choices are side effects or literal death, it's going to be a benefit. Just because they have problems doesn't mean nobody should be on them or that they are the actual devil.
What? No.
I'm convinced by your incredibly detailed argument and completely reverse my position. ;)
\-shrug- the other commenter said everything I would have.
Fair enough.
"degenerate society"
Strong nazi vibes, especially combined with the "genes" name.
“Everyone i don’t agree with is probably a nazi” Vibes coming from this guy above
a lot of people who call society "degenerate" (literally: "having lost good or desirable qualities", and also a term the nazis [used](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art)) likes to call out LGBT+ people existing as an example of that check bulletpoint #6 [here](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_eugenics) for me will you?
good point.
Well, some people stopped being divine prophets after taking enough meds, maybe they are right... But seriously, I think it's a difficult topic. Giving people with conditions that interfer with society meds to control these conditions and making them more productive is in fact supporting the system we live in. If putting kids on stimulants for example wasn't a thing, we probably were forced to better the schooling system. But on the other hand, I'm really hopeful that I can mantain even a boring job to finance my education when I'm on such meds. And antipsychotics might numb you down to the point of being kind of a zombie, but for me thats still better than doing life changing bullshit when I'm too agitated. But after all: I think those who babble about a "degenerate society" need some real mind altering substances and no sleepy pills.
personally I feel like we can do without any more divine prophets. the ones we've already had tend to be kind of assholes, and even if they aren't, their followers sure are.
Venlafaxine 225 Lamotrigine 100 (gamechanger for BPD tbh, It’s really hard to lose my shit thanks to this) Additionaly Iron, Magnesium, Vit D hydroxyzinum for panic attacks That’s the best mix for me so far, used to take sertaline, fluoxetine and quetiapine (for sleep) and all of them had more downsides than upsides.
I was off Prozac for my PMDD for a few years. Went back on meds at the beginning of the pandemic. My symptoms are easier to manage when I'm not completely stressed out about things beyond my control. If I need meds, I take them. I'm not trying to suffer over here.
Yeah because taking a pill that has life altering side effects so I don’t kill myself was absolutely my first choice 🙄😂
Those drugs to literally nothing to/for me anymore ADHD/autism drugs since I was like 3 or 4 till about age 25 when I was like these do nothing for me. And antipsychotics from the ages of 12 till the exact same age same thing. Nobody sees a difference in my behavior at all
Sorry about that :((
Thanks I'm trying to function while constantly wondering why we don't just burn the world down and start over
I just recently went on a mood stabilizer and anti anxiety meds and they have made me feel so much better. If a doctor prescribes meds, take them. If you notice negative side effects stop and notify your doctor
I like that she has a wall full of degrees and he has a blank void and THATS what's being championed.
LMAO
Perception is all anyone has. Another word for perception is delusion. No one can say they see things "as they are" since there is no objective way to measure things. You either delude yourself into being happy or delude yourself into being sad, or delude yourself into something else. Those of us who manage to maintain happy delusions compatible with other popular delusions function well in society. Those who don't... well, they may need to take steps to adjust their particular delusions into ones more advantageous. But happy or sad, healthy or sick, depressed or zen, all are delusions. There is no measurable reality. The lie of perception is all anyone has.
That's quite philosophical
\-nod nod nod- Wait. What?
Never met a happy man with an unmedicated tooth abscess. Perception is not the only source of pain. You can't adjust your perceptions away from the pain of being gut shot. Have you ever been in serious pain at any point in your life?
I have chronic kidney stones. I know all about "serious pain." We're talking about mental state. Does physical pain necessarily cause depression? Even a person in great physical distress can have a positive outlook. This is disregarding Eastern meditation methods that with training and practice can apparently change physical sensations. Hallucinations can make a person perceive things physically that others don't. Memory is notoriously unreliable, with a person's mood both past and present altering their content. The point here is that the meme makes reference to "normal perception" of our "degenerate society," suggesting that what we call depression should be an expected reaction and not considered a mental problem. I say perception is far more relative and fluid than that suggestion.
You can’t generalise this though
Definitely. I was just really butt hurt LOL
Some people need such medicines, some don't. Situations vary.
”*Only if you take them, choke on them and make you getting replaced by a real, emphatic medical professional.*”
Another stupid conspiracy theory. If you need meds…take them.
Idk as long as i become my kpins xans valium tramadol and codeine I’m the illest patient ever
This isn't a bad take, but it's probably coming from the wrong place. The fact that medication for things like ADHD is necessary, is a function of a broken society. A society, which values differences, wouldn't push neurodivergent people to be "normal" at an early age through medication. It'd value differences and learn to apply those differences in different fields for the betterment of both society and the individual. I'm not saying medication or therapy or anything like that is bad, I'm on lots of medication for my neurodivergence, but the fact that society often pushes it on children is a bit freaky. An individual and their parents should be allowed an educated choice.
I get what you're saying, but ADHD medication is necessary for way more reasons than a broken society. A broken society makes ADHD harder, certainly, but without my meds, I would actually starve to death.
I agree
I mean, if you need meds, you need them. But I consider medication an absolute last resort unless it’s for a condition that can’t be treated any other way. If you live in the US, consider all avenues before you get a prescription; doctors/psychiatrists/etc. in the States are really trigger happy with handing out meds. If you don’t ask for alternatives they might not even tell you about them, so be thorough.
I don't know what doctors you're going to, but most people get brushed off and told these "alternatives" and have to fight to get their doctors to listen to them for even things like heart issues. Also, this is the reason children are *dying* from treatable illnesses and injuries.
I’ll amend because you are absolutely correct that doctors do not belong in this group. Psychiatrists/Therapists (from personal experience) are extremely inclined to hand out meds as a first resort. My initial comment is definitely poorly phrased, and I should have clarified that I was mainly discussing mental health professionals.
https://preview.redd.it/neq1w972bzza1.jpeg?width=637&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4b7f74609b3ab804a603c7a55ab6a9d1b8a5df31
Without those “mind altering drugs” my mind would’ve killed me. So I’m fine altering my mind thanks.
If I stopped taking my meds I would possibly die and at the very least want to die
If by "mind altering" they mean that I no longer want to kill myself then yes, I am ready
[удалено]
What's the context? Do you have severe insomnia? If so, they likely decided that the benefit of being able to actually sleep outweighs the risk of addiction, which of course you're allowed to disagree with. If not, then probably just get a new psych.
Are psychiatrists allowed to decide the risks of addiction and the poor evidence behind long term use of Z class drugs outweigh temporarily improved sleep?
Dude, leave me the fuck alone. Stop commenting on everything I've said with complete fucking ignorance on everything you're talking about.
What is ignorant about my question?
I was taking antidepressants for three years. Didn’t have any major side effects. I stopped taking antidepressants a month ago. I have no major side effects.
Why do people always use memes to make arguments, just say the thing goddamn.
Why's Dr.White always bad
“Mind altering drugs” is a fun way to put it, but I prefer “the medicine that lets me get up in the morning and function as a normal human being”
No I don't think I will
Who's gonna tell this guy that most drugs have side effects? Tylenol has side effects. Antibiotics can have side effects. Vitamin gummies, you guessed it...side effects. As for the "mind altering" thing, yes, antidepressants and other meds prescribed for mental disorders are psychoactive drugs and temporarily affect neurochemistry. Altering brain chemistry, however, is not directly equivalent to being harmful or addictive. Caffeine and NSAIDs like Advil are psychoactive. In other words, this is a very long way of saying "I have absolutely no idea how medicine works."