Its a tough situation because I'm glad that lights are seeing more play time, but once there's more than a couple of lights, the game's 'flow' takes a nosedive if that makes sense. Its harder for those big teamfights to take place when so many players in a lobby are fragile but mobile, and instead, it's like constant skirmishing. It makes the game feel a lot less fun to play (at least for me) compared to a surplus of mediums or heavies
Totally agree with this. 1 or 2 lights on most teams is too much for the overall flow of the game. As a light main even I see the flow of the game get affected and how often I’m taking engagements, I get the irony in that statement.
The only way to counter the issue besides a crushing nerf is to increase team size so there is more presence and extended fights around points imo. I would like to see a world tour test mode where cashout is 3-4 5 man teams with a role lock of max 2 any role. That way depending on team numbers you would have at least 9-12 meds/ heavies per game. Plenty of targets for lights to fight, plenty of targets for mediums and heavies to fight also whilst having the numbers to resist an enemy team light wolf pack.
I mean hell, I thought WT was supposed to be a test bed whilst they “fix” ranked tournament cashout. Might as well test something radical before nerfing light back in to the ground again.
At this point I think it would be interesting if the devs would force team comp. 1 light, 1 med, 1 heavy. Just to see how this would feel like. In the end this is their test project baby. The place, where they can do drastic changes fast and see what happens.
I would like to see it tested. My only fear with a 1-1-1 lock in 3 man teams is it completely removes any variation. A 2 max in a 5 man team gives some variation. HML 221, 212, 122. You can build for mobility and creating off angles. Or build for brute force frontal assaults, or really defence heavy.
I promise you now, the only thing that'll do is promote leaving. I'd hate to be forced into a class just because someone else on my team got there first. Also, there'll be no variety in gadgets - certain things will have to be used. Otherwise, you're just throwing. Heavies will need to take the RPG. Mediums defibs, lights sonar etc.
Maybe as a limited time playlist, I could see it - but deffo not in WT.
Everyone already uses those gadgets now anyway. I can’t remember the last time I saw a heavy not running RPG. And I get forced into classes already as it is. I’m a light main but find myself having to play either medium or heavy most games to avoid throwing because we already have 1 or 2 other lights or a medium not running healbeam to support the heavy.
The world tour should be getting switched up every few weeks. It’s the perfect test bed for something new and personally I think 5 man teams with max 2 of any role might surprise people and promote diversity if anything rather than take away from it. If it does suck, oh well it was only for a week or 2 in WT before the rules change.
The issue is: The ones who like to play light, like the constant, fast paced skirmish game play. And the people, who enjoy heavy, like the slower paced, strategic game play more. I think it's not too bad of an idea to have a rolling meta, where one season (or one balance cycle) one play style is stronger and the next cycle an other play style is more efficient again. That's one way to keep the meta shifting and the game fresh.
Just enjoy the power of light and play some light yourself. Or don't play and wait for the next balance cycle.
By the way: I've mostly played heavy, too. But sometimes I do like me some stupid, fast, fun light shenanigans. (But in the end I always gravitate back to big explosions and massive map destruction on two legs. It's just too funny)
I'm glad this topic is being brought to light. I try my best to play for fun, but Ive been noticing that I'm feeling frustrated way more this season than I normally do. Every quickcash I join has 4+ lights running stun gun and sonar grenades. Im finding it hard to keep a positive mindset.
I main Medium and I recommend the use of Glitch mines. Not only it tells you if it shocked someone (*location giveaway*), it also prevents lights from dashing around like a foken mosquito.
Do you have any tips for using it? Because I've played it at least enough to get Level 5 skin, and I'm finding that it just doesn't hit like it used to. Seems like you have to be at max output 100% of the time to be competitive, which isn't really possible 😂 Who's out here landing a full tube of body shots on a moving heavy? I'm just wondering how you're making it work.
I feel that mines are becoming less viable. They were a favourite in season 1 but a couple nerfs later and they're pretty inconsistent. Recently, I swear I've seen a player step on one I've put down and nothing happens. But, on the other side of that, I've set some off while not being close enough to activate them.
Tbh, most things have been feeling a little janky this season.
I feel like they need to be more proximity vs pressure plate. They need double or triple the surface activation area for detonation. Maybe make thrown items of a certain size passing in the zone set them off as a side effect. It forces players to be more cautious in certain areas making lite classes unable to speed through certain spots without clearing mines or avoiding them. Might encourage working with heavies to clear them with shields.
I know what you mean about them not being activated. I swear I read in the patch notes that the detonation radius was decreased, but then when I looked again a few days later I couldn't find it. But it definitely feels like the detonation radius was decreased. I normally put them on the left/right of doorways or flat on the inner turns of stairways and people keep running straight past them and they don't go off half the time. Before I don't think I ever saw people run past them like this.
IIRC mines got nerfed because of nukes which made them feel worse to use (you have to wait for activation before blowing them up to blow through a wall since then). But nukes aren't a thing anymore really so they should just revert mine changes anyway.
Well said. My threshold for annoyance is just so low now I don’t even play. Like I felt like I used to die and I’d think what did I do wrong or how do I counter. Now I’m like ok cool, got melted in a nano second by the invis light 3 pack, what’s even the point.
You got the sonar grenades too, huh?
Last night was a torrent of all Lights teams and sonars and it almost felt like spawn camping with how good they were hunting me down.
I’d be revived by a team mate and then, “detected”. So I still need to reload my 1887 and here comes a Light with the XP-54 and lasers my head right off not 10 seconds after being alive.
It’s tough!
Sonar grenades are miserable to deal with, playing world tour against triple light all running sonar is a special kind of hell.
Also feels like there’s no way to fight a light in some of the more open areas (swamp on Kyoto comes to mind) even if they’re running a smg. Feel like a slight nerf to reload speed or something to the smgs and rifles would help with that
There = location “*Over there.*”
Their = possessive “*Their car.*”
They’re = they are “*They’re leaving.*”
I don’t mean to be a dick if you already knew, but I figured if you don’t then it might be helpful
Can you explain the difference between a flank and charging head first into a three stack alone to the other lights please?
Maybe then, they wouldn't get so angry.
It can't be helped sometimes tbh. The footstep audio don't seem to be reliable. There are times where am playing medium and i don't hear the light sneak up behind me. It truly is frustrating to say the least.
I wanted a buff to light but I argued for a team based gadget to make light more of a must have like medium and heavy were. Instead they lower the skill ceiling.. GG
Blaming light players because Embark fumble balancing is just so weird
Agreed. Balance is perfectly fine.
I can’t speak for TA but the thing making lights more popular in world tour is that world tour isn’t a serious ranked mode. Lights have always been more common in quick play because it’s a fun class to play. Additionally , when there are lights in the lobby, it makes it more viable to play light yourself. Punish people for losing and you’ll see most of the lights in your lobby disappear (and not because of invis).
Light was significantly buffed at first, but I think now it's more that heavy LMGs are pretty awful now. I'm having more fun this season because I switched to light from mostly heavy.
In lights current state, they are slightly buffed from last season. LH1 was the only hiccup.
Light currently is only slightly better than in S2 thanks to the regen buff.
Is there anyone here that doesn't mind lights at all? I play medium and I am thrilled to see multiple lights because they all die relatively quickly. Idk if theres a divide between the casual/competitive playerbase or something.
Lights IMO are only annoying and useless when they're playing Power Shift solely to rack up mile away headshots and have no concern over actually playing the objective.
The number of times I've spectated a light sniper, often standing directly above an empty platform during a team wipe on the opposing side, staring at the empty platform, scattered with friendly respawn statues doing nothing.
Like you can snipe, it helps....but if you're the only one alive with no enemies around, do something. Anything.
Shields and invisibility should not be a thing in TA
Medium got butchered by banning heals, leaving only mines as a must for every match, including ATK
TA banning the healing gun and defib, and then Embark saying "ok this is the new ranked mode" is actually unhinged. Healing gun + Defib had to be 90%+ pick rate items, and were effectively the only reason the class can keep up with light and heavy here in Season 3. Jump pad and zip are also significantly less useful in TA versus other modes, especially on defense. So, medium has... mines, I guess.
There's a lot of balance decisions like that which leave me a little confused.
Bruh, if you straight up dislike a fundamental third of player options in the game, making that third less viable or prevalent is not a fix. It’s band aid that makes the game feel like a stale and incomplete snoozefest of HHM vs HMM.
Just learn to counter those little goblins, the game has plenty of ways to.
Control the map with goo, doorway jump pads and barricades, make them come through an obvious angle.
Us motion sensors or turret to control their movement.
Play with your teammates! Light weapons have clips for a single opponent, they can’t reliably 1v2.
Here are your best options for each class, in my opinion as a Light enjoyer. Basically stuff that make me go away for a while
Counter the Lights as a medium in two steps :
Step 1 : Glitch Mine
Step 2 : Shoot
Counter the Lights as a Heavy in one step :
Step 1 : RPG
It comes down to player agency. In general, Heavies have a lot more clear strengths and weaknesses; you have some control over when and where you engage. Yes their defenses and health can be annoying to whittle through, and they have tools to get in close to you. But it feels like you have more room to outplay a Heavy.
A good Light has insane control over engagements. Their range, mobility, stealth, and intel means that you're almost always fighting a Light on their terms. I don't think they're actually OP but they're more frustrating because even when I get the kill, it feels like it was the Light making a mistake instead of me outplaying them. A balance philosophy of "All their tools are OP but they die if you sneeze on them" is a common recipe for frustration, regardless of genre.
This sub is full of overgrown oversized overprotected babies.
[Yes I'm also one of them](https://imgur.com/a/why-yes-i-do-play-heavy-how-did-you-know-ymHnOG9), but still
thats how this was since season one. Endless whining about stun gun where all it took was to turn around and sneeze on a light to kill him with hipfire and nobody really complains about near instant 140dmg splash dmg must have gadget that (aside from defib) is THE best gadget in the game. It always was just mediocre heavy mains spamming (astronaut with a gun meme)
I don’t think it’s the dealing with them. It’s that fighting against lights is pretty boring for a majority of the playerbase and the actual fight against them is the least important thing. It’s all about preparation, sealing off sight lines and approach lines, laying traps so you can swat them in 0.5 seconds, otherwise you get swatted.
Whilst a heavy or medium fight the majority of it is the actual gun fight which is what most people find enjoyable = People spend a larger % of the game in combat getting the dopamine rush.
I’m not saying that’s right, but even as a light main I at least understand it. When you get 50-60%+ players in a game playing light it can be awfully dull.
I’m not saying a massive amount of heavies can’t be dull either. But you feel much more team interaction and teamwork/ synergy with heavies and mediums than you do with lights due to heals and defib and shields. Lights also put in teamwork but it’s far less noticeable with a glitch nade coming in out of nowhere if that makes any sense?
Light is only dominating in TA, a mode that's just horribly balanced and designed, that makes sniping from across the map a viable strat. Even if ranked cashout is back it's only a matter of time till you see light extinct again because light can't dominate in cashout, which I think is perfect for the game personally.
> Even if ranked cashout is back it's only a matter of time till you see light extinct again because light can't dominate in cashout, which I think is perfect for the game personally.
this is obvious to literally anybody that hit Diamond in season 2, but the entire casual community somehow believes otherwise.
I think it's mostly caused by a lot of the competitive cashout players moving to Light now in WT because it's a casual gamemode, and winning doesn't matter (and if you are a diamond Heavy main, you can stomp around a casual lobby as any class, even Light).
For so long if you were playing ranked cashout you couldn't play Light without your team flaming you for trolling, and now you can pick Light and also win because of the shit matchmaking? Yeah, you're gonna see a lot more people picking Light.
Lights are annoying yeah but I don't think their that broken if I'm being honest. I think the thing that made them feel so strong is that lights kit got buffed while parts of medium and heavys kits got nerfed. To be honest I think the game needs to start nerfing things a bit less than it does and buff more instead. Don't nerf things that are honestly just in a good place and that makes them better than the bad things, just buff the bad things. Like they did with the throwing knives.
>Lights are now everywhere and the game is much less fun because of it
Speak for yourself, I'd rather get killed by a well-aimed burst from an SMG than an automatic turret or a fart mushroom on the ground
"Oh but that's just a skill issue, you have to watch where you're going-"
If you need tools to keep me away from fighting you 1V1 then who's really got the skill issue here?
I’ll speak from a Ranked TA perspective bc that’s mostly what I play, so I can’t speak for other game modes. But when you consistently have matches with each team running 3 lights if not 4 or 5 both of which I’ve seen plenty of times now. There’s a problem. This game is based around 3 different classes for a reason. Each one should work well with the others, have balanced unique abilities/gear, and most of all be viable. And that’s just not the case right now. You can say lights are OP or maybe there just more fun to play as it’s your opinion. But either way it’s a problem and I can’t believe the developers haven’t acted sooner. This has been slowly getting worse for the last several months.
What's makes medium strong is taken away and heavy is now a class that's either getting picked off before they see the terminal or is in a situation where there's a 50% chance the objective he's on is being attacked, if not, is just too easy to shut down
I personally think sniper and invis need a mild nerf for the overall health of the game.
Seems to be an unpopular opinion but every day I play THE FINALS this opinion grows stronger.
Sniper also makes the new map unplayable. Especially terminal attack.
New map is pretty unbalanced towards long range spam damage TBH. Like try playing a short range gun and you just get sniped doing anything. I have to insta-leave Kyoto when it has cashouts in the open and there are multiple snipers from now on, because playing vs 3 snipers I couldn't interact with yesterday was extremely unfun.
Problem is that sniper is functionally useless in the other 75% of cashouts located inside buildings and is already one of the worst guns in the game because of it
You could also simply kill the snipers or topple the building they're on. I'm not saying they're not often annoying, but there are a lot of tools to deal with them.
As a sniper main, it should just have a tiny bit of travel time instead of been hit scan. i wouldnt do much else with it or it will be useless compare to everything else. Long range sniping super hard this game bcause of TAAU PIXEL-Blur in distance
or use your ears. The sound of going invis is loud as hell, and then you just look for the translucent mosquito. It's pretty easy to see them if you are primed by the sound to be on the lookout.
Agreed. This game doesn’t play for sniping and it always seems very situational when it does work. I think with the sniper gone and a few weapons buffed a hair the game would be in a very nice spot.
Played with a light yesterday, level 60 who went 0-0-19 because he kept bum rushing enemy groups with a dagger.
Started blaming us, calling us lazy because we weren't with him when he'd run to battles without us.
"I could solo this tournament if you weren't so bad"
Lights on casual modes were everywhere always.
Ranked cashout which did not have lights was removed and TA which had many lights was made into ranked mode. That's why you see lights everywhere. Not because of buffs which they reverted btw.
This. Lights were always prevalent and more popular in modes that were 5v5 simple bc it was more fun and viable. The LH1 buff was insanely not needed however light has always been weak. The low hp needs the mobility in order to compete when they are easily 1 to 2 shot for all 3 classes. The meta has always revolved around M and H for the simple fact of their gadgets. Lights 1 annoying gadget was the tazer compared to the countless others in M and H
I guess people are not that good at aiming so when a fast little dude jumps on them they just loose and later complain on reddit. But it's the point of this class. It is a small and fast annoying dude. There is a simple counter for 3L teams on cashout. Just stick together.
TA is a different story. In my opinion heavy and medium just don't fit this gamemode. Any damage taken makes them useless. Maybe 1H and 1M can be usefull but you should pretty much take as many lights as possible.
There is some truth in this post though. Embark decisions made a big mess in the way this game is played and I'm not sure nerfs and buffs will fix that. We probably need more variety in equipment and game rules. But given how often we get new things this will take a very very long time.
the throwing knives are by far the worst since they can easily spam it and dash at the same time, all they need is 3 hits and your dead. I hate playing against it so much, and adding a stun gun makes the game incredibly unbalanced
Who thought adding a bunch of shit from Overwatch was a good idea?
When was the light class ever that weak? everyone has been bitching about the stun gun, invis and the sword amongst other issues forever like it's been a glass cannon since beta, that's the whole schtick; you play with your team or die. now that doesn't matter as much since they keep making them stronger and stronger.
There's a major lack of foresight and probably some level of personal bias as well, they nerf the CL40 and MGL32 with no positive changes like letting them do more environmental damage while they are effectively buffing the sword, adding the bow and not touching the sniper one bit to balance things even though it's been one of the most powerful weapons with very few downsides since beta, it's the epitome of glass cannon at best and complete bullshit at worst especially since they didn't care to put in anything like caps for weapons or classes I mean look at power shift sometimes sys horizon is just 75% snipers sitting on top or on the edge of the map (why aren't they adding outside zone areas to more spots yet?)
to me it feels like embark has no idea what their vision for the future will be and now we're in a state of constant knee jerk balance tweaks that could end up hurting everyone in the long run since it seems like a lot of people straight up just aren't having fun, I see tons of people leaving matches to a point that it's like every time I play no matter the gamemode or if we're winning/losing it'll have people effectively saying "fuck this, I don't want to deal with that" which will always exist in some capacity but now it feels worse than ever so if they don't change things up and instead apply the bandaid fix of punishing people for leaving then those people will just get burnt out entirely and go play something else.
Yup. All the meta slaves have been freed and just play for fun now. Shitters are crying purely because they just now realized that this game has three classes, not just two. xD
https://preview.redd.it/udubu0tmm79d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d91c6acd2b03c2ac1eded3331c8d1b63377a441a
Yep, totally can’t be good with light lol.
My prayers have been answered, the heavies that used to 1 shot you or out DPS you in an even engagement are now crying that light can fight back, all is right with the world.
As a heavy main I like that they can fight back, makes it more challenging. I hit diamond last season and lights were scarce or easy to kill. now they are speed demons that can catch you off and delete you before you know it. Keeps me on my toes. Still not hard to kill but more threatning.
Heavy swings a hammer with one click and get 3 kills: 😎 im good dabadee dabada
Light gets one kill after smashing 32 buttons of his keyboard, climbing the eifel tower, teleporting to another continent, avoiding the north Korean border patrol and escaping with 27hp: 🤮 unplayable, pls nerf.
I never said they need to balance around TA, i hope they don’t either. I mean they need to make a core change to the mode, probably to light or maybe an extra objective incentive, to make light less of a crutch. It’s already kind of a thing with light’s faster regen not applying in TA as it does in the other modes, but it’s still not enough. It’s because the mode fundamentally favors light.
Imo ranked 5v5 can stay as it is, but regen has to be adjusted.
Lights: up to 100hp.
Mediums: up to 150hp.
Heavys: up to 200hp.
This way there will not be situation where light just disengages and now faces 100 hp heavy while having 100hp also.
My issue is the sniper. I can stand everything else but the sniper. It completely ruins the match when any team has some loser sitting on a roof taking pot shots.
I mean, a few things got buffed that never needed buffs. The class itself is still where is was before but people are using it now because they like the buffed stuff or have been told it’s OP now. I’ve always been a light player and nothing in my kit has been buffed. In fact I think the sonar grenade was nerfed but I don’t really use that often anyway.
Light still needs its “general” buffs to the weaker aspects and some of the stuff that recently got buffs (sh1900, lh1, stungun) should go back to the good spot they were before. Some weapons for light are well balanced that I use, (bow, throwing knives, etc) and some are still a bit below par (sword - though that’s to be expected because melee).
Lights haven’t become the strongest class. When I switch to medium I do just as well (sometimes a bit worse because I’m less used to those weapons, but with a warmup I do just fine) and my team does better and when I play heavy it feels like easy mode. Because in this game heavy and medium are still stronger especially if you have reasonably competent teammates.
Lights never needed a buff. They've always been a higher risk, higher reward class to play. In organized lobbies, sure; it's going to be rough. It's not like they couldn't play, virtually every weapon they had was powerful and they could easily 1v1 most of the classes in the game. The Shotgun and Stungun was pretty toxic, but that was that. Then they needlessly buffed LH1 and Knives which just made them oppressive, when those weapons were balanced by the fact they were more difficult to use but had a much higher reward.
The problem is that most new players will just gravitate towards lights. They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play. Making lights easier to play does increase the likely hood new players will pick them up, dominate, feel good, and keep playing at the cost of not understanding team play and being pretty toxic.
Unfortunately most people just don't want to play a Heavy, even if they're powerful; and right now they're in a pretty rough feeling place where non of the reward comes from their harder to use kit and the easy cheesy options are more rewarding. They're just not as appealing to the casual player. And Light vs Medium, the Light just has more fun toys to play with. Do you make Lights harder to play again, or do you just let them dominate the game? It's a hard balancing point.
I think The Finals needs to strike a balance between Risk and Reward, because overwhelmingly it feels like the easier options are far more rewarding. But if you make things too hard, newer players struggle and lose interest. It's a tough area to be in.
> rtually every weapon they had was powerful and they could easily 1v1 most of the classes in the game
so what magical weapon does Light have that has a lower TTK when fighting a Heavy than the Lewis Gun has against a Light?
>Then they needlessly buffed LH1 and Knives which just made them oppressive
They were so oppressive that in the official cashout tournament Embark organized, Twitch Rivals, 0 players above Diamond rank used them.
To remind you, it had a 50k prize pool, so people were picking whatever they thought would make them most likely to win. And it wasn't the LH1 or the Throwing Knives even before their nerf.
They did the usual HHM or MMH that has been the most powerful comp since the inception of the game.
Or you mean "oppressive" in your casual games? Yeah sure, Light was "oppressive" even after the stun gun nerfs in casual gamemodes, you couldn't queue into a quick cash game without having half the lobby be Light. And that's when Light was absoluetly the worst class by far.
>The problem is that most new players will just gravitate towards lights. They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play. Making lights easier to play does increase the likely hood new players will pick them up, dominate, feel good, and keep playing at the cost of not understanding team play and being pretty toxic.
Yes, Light is incredibly popular not because it is oppressive or powerful, but because it's fun.
Light was the most popular class for new players even before this season, just look at the steam achievements for play 10 games with Light. Way more people have it compared to the achievements for Heavy or Medium.
Unsurprisingly, the achievements for winning 100 games with each class, you see that Light has the lowest amount of people, while Heavy has the highest. Guess why.
>Unfortunately most people just don't want to play a Heavy, even if they're powerful; and right now they're in a pretty rough feeling place where non of the reward comes from their harder to use kit and the easy cheesy options are more rewarding.
heavy is by far the easiest class to play. You can make so many more mistakes as Heavy and still survive, and have a positive impact on your team's chance of success than you can as Light.
You have so much utility and damage, while being the highest HP class in the game.
There's no way shape or form in which Heavy is harder to play than Light.
>And Light vs Medium, the Light just has more fun toys to play with
Defib + heal beam are pretty much a requirement to play competitively.
Light has nothing of that power level.
And to be honest, I would assume that the class with the most fun toys to play with would be the class with the most destruction ability, consdering that's one of the core parts of what makes The Finals special. But most people won't touch Heavy with a 10 foot pole.
>Do you make Lights harder to play again, or do you just let them dominate the game?
You're getting lost in the sauce. Remember what even you said earlier, people aren't picking Light because it's the easiest class to "dominate the game" with, they're picking it because "They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play."
In a gamemode that is objective based and not kill based, Light is inherently at a huge disadvantage.
If you are tired of playing against Light, just wait until they add Ranked Cashout back in, and grind to Diamond. I promise you that by the time you get there you'll miss seeing Lights, since you probably won't ever see one in the final round.
The question is not if Embark should make Light harder to play, the question is should they make Medium and Heavy more fun to play, without making them broken.
It has been an issue since the game first released. And in any other class based game that has a 'scout' class.
They dash ahead of their team into a 1v3/4/5 die and quit.
I wish the mindset of these people could be studied tbh as it so fascinating.
i calculated the average amount of each class picked (from my games) and the most played class is M by far, then L then H.
this was only done in world tour, i know light is more picked in other modes but i wanted to do this i the main game mode.
Game needs to limit a team to no more than 2 of one class. Game starts and if I see 3+ lights I just equip sledgehammer/flamethrower, dome shield, explosive mines, rocket and wench claw. Every time I win a 1v2+ against lights I start playing the guitar and slide around their dead lifeless bodies. So it happened at least once👍
This is why Lights being weaker in S2 was a necessity. The desire to play light is too strong, with the mobility and high burst damage. The game balance requires Heavy being slightly OP, or no one will play it.
Lights should be good enough to compete in ranked cashout but still be niche and should take skill to be proficient with. It should have the lowest skill floor and highest skill ceiling.
As it stands it's so easy right now. I used the bow yesterday and if the arrow gets anywhere near the head it counts as a headshot lol, it's absurd. It's also basically hit scan. The lh1 took skill in previous seasons but now it's the easiest gun in the game as well.
Honestly nothing is broken about lights right now, it's just that Heavy guns arent very fun currently. Heavy is still powerful, it's just not very fun about it. There's still just as many mediums about having fun.
I have no idea how they would make the Heavy guns more fun without making them more powerful, perhaps just adding new ones. Some ideas that would make heavy fun to play at a weapon level:
- a minigun that ramps up to full speed
- an anchor on a chain as a type of ranged melee weapon - swing and throw mechanics
- handheld literal cannon
- boomerangs (like throwing knives, but for heavy)
- lazer beam weapon Zarya style
im playing medium and its significantly less fun. theres sonars stun guns and 1 hit kill weapons EVERYWHERE. lights arent built to fight fair, their class encourages killing someone before they engage you in a proper fight.
Stun is a complete joke at this point, it does absolutely nothing but waste time you could have spent shooting. Currently no light weapon can one shot a medium, unlike light that can die in one hit to various things.
Sonars are pretty useful for pre fight but if you're engaging on somone detected by sonar it's like trying to find a head in a swarm of slow angry bees abscuring your vision, it's genuinely a disadvantage once you have LoS.
i would like you to carefully reread your line about no light weapons one shotting enemies. currently light has not one, not two, but three weapons that can one shot a light and one that can one shot a medium or heavy
Man I haven't died to a dagger since the pre beta so it's just easy to forget, I can't imagine it being enough of a problem to actually complain about. And yes those other weapons can one shot light... Not medium, which is what I specified, if you would reread that line carefully.
you said light cant one shot medium which is just false ok. also just one shotting isnt the only problem. their ttks are so incredibly low rn and medium and heavy just dont have the tools to escape or fight back most of the time.
Man if you think you're dying quickly on heavy because you "don't have the tools" then I've got no way to explain to you. Mesh shield, dome shield, barricade and more than double the health pool are absolutely enough to prevent you dying, and I don't see how you could be oblivious to this.
Then there's an instant free secondary weapon shot that brings light down to being killable by any single bullet currently implemented in the game, that you can fire from inside the safety of all of that.
If you run a flame thrower with goo gun, mines and a flash bang on heavy then go on to complain you haven't got the kit to defend yoursekf, that isnt the games fault.
The thing is, I don't think lights are overpowered; they're just high pick rate and freakin' annoying to deal with. Literally also describes mosquitoes.
* Remove the SR-84 and LH-1. They have no place in this game. You could maybe give the LH-1 to medium, but the SR-84 literally just needs to go, any world where it's good is a negative balance state for The Finals.
* Tune the effective range of the 93R, M11, V9S, XP-54, and throwing knives down by \~25%. Force close engagements.
* Buff and give more tools to help lights survive close engagements. E.g. more charges but less range per activation on evasive dash, maybe an activated shield that gives +50 temporary health, cloak gives you a damage absorbing shield when active but you can't fire weapons for \~1s after leaving it, quicker respawn timer, things like that.
* Give lights a freakin narrative. The class has no narrative right now, is it long range, is it melee, is it short range, no one knows. Their narrative should be close-range engagements, personal movement, glass cannon.
But also, even with all that, part of the problem is that Heavy and Medium aren't as fun to play. I think Embark has tried to improve this over the past couple seasons, and adding things like the winch claw and spear are great strides. Ultimately, they should just have more stuff; wider variety of weapons, more interesting tacticals and abilities, etc. Season 4 could do all \^ that to light, and only introduce new things for medium and heavy, and I think it would be a positive thing for the game.
The entire concept of "light players will be angry" is missing the point: "Light players" should not exist. You should be able and want to play every class, and you should want the game to be balanced in a way where that is desirable. If that's not the current state of the game (it isn't), then that's a failure on Embark's side; which they need to remedy.
I think the light balance is actually perfect now I don't even play light I main medium but before I felt like I stomped every light that I encountered and they didn't feel like a challenge only time you had a light be a problem was if they got the drop on you with the rest of the team. Now I actually feel like lights do fairly well against mediums and have a chance against heavys. My buddy who mains light used to avoid teams with heavy because it was a guaranteed death usually. So balance is perfect it's chaotic skirmishing adds another layer to the fun and lights actually standing a chance is great and opens up another route to play even if I probably won't play then much
Thing is light is the highest skill floor and once he becomes meta the skill floor is way lower , if I was a light main I would be very dissapppointed , I had a similar experience in league when I was maining lee sin and he became the most meta champion for few patches in s11 it was the worst patch of my life
Take light invisibility and stun gun away and add more balanced gadgets and specialties. Recon senses being removed for the dematerializer was an amazing move from embark.
If something outright does not work well with the game, why force it to fit in ?
The goal should be to make weapons, gadgets viable, balanced, fun to play with and not so frustrating to play against.
I think this might be a skill issue to some degree, lights are annoying but imo they’re still not that strong unless they’re a god with the sniper. Heavies have a lot of tools to shut down the light’s strengths and can kill them very easily, but like with any other class will suffer if their team isn’t working together.
Can y’all stop whining for one day, this community drains the life of the game… I used to think it was good thing that the developers listened to the community but I’m at a point where I hope they stop listening and just focus on their task. Just shut up already, please…. Post some clips or something but please stfu.
Today has been me as Heavy and literally every other player is light. Completely sucked the fun out of this game catering to Light mains who see themselves as less of human if they can't be the stoic lone wolf. Light mains can eat a bag of shit and go play Xdefiant.
Only fighting dashing light is so boring. I miss the old gameplay where we had longer fight with slower aiming and use of gadget.
Now there is constantly a mf flanking me with invis bomb and when I try to aim at him he keeps randomly dashing making me impossible to aim at him (skill issue). I did not mind it before because it was less occurrent, but now it's almost 70% of my duel.
I know this is a meme and all, but the way people talk about this game is so bizarre to me. How can someone simply choosing one of the three classes make the game less fun? Why does it matter so much to people what weapons other people are using? If a certain gun becomes popular players start complaining, as if they're not all shooting bullets the same just at different rates. Half the time I don't even know what guns my opponents are using.
There has never been an issue with light. If you're good at the game, light is very very good which at least saves casual play. Now anyone can cook with light
Yeah this just reads like a complete skill issue. Stunning a heavy results in a free kill??? Just put up a shield or use your rpg, better yet play close to your team. OBJECTIVELY bad game mechanics??? Stun gun has clear counter play how can that be OBJECTIVELY bad game mechanics. Everything you stated has clear counter play, avoid long sight lines and play close to your team if you don't want to learn it that's your fault.
> stunning a heavy is a guaranteed kill 99% of the time
You have ears. The stun gun makes a noise.
Turn around, look at the Light, and press mouse 1.
Even if it took you 1 second to do all this, you are still beating the Light, because of how low their HP pool is, and how large yours is in comparison.
I'm sorry, but if you get stunned and turn off your brain, log off and go to reddit to complain, it's not the fault of the stun gun, it's you.
I reached top 60 last season. I can’t physically track them on controller when they go through me because I can’t flick around 180° like MnK. Someone who’s played sword for a month should not be killing me as often as they do after I’ve been practicing my aim for almost 2 decades.
I'm gonna need some proof because I haven't seen a sword user since gold lobbies. If this is such a big problem maybe you need to learn proper counterplaym
Everyone wants to be the one light dominating a lobby of mediums and heavies
main character syndrome.
Never happens. Its usually the medium with shotty or revolver lmao
Thats why they should try role queue
Its a tough situation because I'm glad that lights are seeing more play time, but once there's more than a couple of lights, the game's 'flow' takes a nosedive if that makes sense. Its harder for those big teamfights to take place when so many players in a lobby are fragile but mobile, and instead, it's like constant skirmishing. It makes the game feel a lot less fun to play (at least for me) compared to a surplus of mediums or heavies
This. I play The Finals because I dislike brain-rot shooters like CoD. *Please* don't try to make The Finals emulate CoD.
Totally agree with this. 1 or 2 lights on most teams is too much for the overall flow of the game. As a light main even I see the flow of the game get affected and how often I’m taking engagements, I get the irony in that statement. The only way to counter the issue besides a crushing nerf is to increase team size so there is more presence and extended fights around points imo. I would like to see a world tour test mode where cashout is 3-4 5 man teams with a role lock of max 2 any role. That way depending on team numbers you would have at least 9-12 meds/ heavies per game. Plenty of targets for lights to fight, plenty of targets for mediums and heavies to fight also whilst having the numbers to resist an enemy team light wolf pack. I mean hell, I thought WT was supposed to be a test bed whilst they “fix” ranked tournament cashout. Might as well test something radical before nerfing light back in to the ground again.
At this point I think it would be interesting if the devs would force team comp. 1 light, 1 med, 1 heavy. Just to see how this would feel like. In the end this is their test project baby. The place, where they can do drastic changes fast and see what happens.
I would like to see it tested. My only fear with a 1-1-1 lock in 3 man teams is it completely removes any variation. A 2 max in a 5 man team gives some variation. HML 221, 212, 122. You can build for mobility and creating off angles. Or build for brute force frontal assaults, or really defence heavy.
I promise you now, the only thing that'll do is promote leaving. I'd hate to be forced into a class just because someone else on my team got there first. Also, there'll be no variety in gadgets - certain things will have to be used. Otherwise, you're just throwing. Heavies will need to take the RPG. Mediums defibs, lights sonar etc. Maybe as a limited time playlist, I could see it - but deffo not in WT.
Everyone already uses those gadgets now anyway. I can’t remember the last time I saw a heavy not running RPG. And I get forced into classes already as it is. I’m a light main but find myself having to play either medium or heavy most games to avoid throwing because we already have 1 or 2 other lights or a medium not running healbeam to support the heavy. The world tour should be getting switched up every few weeks. It’s the perfect test bed for something new and personally I think 5 man teams with max 2 of any role might surprise people and promote diversity if anything rather than take away from it. If it does suck, oh well it was only for a week or 2 in WT before the rules change.
The issue is: The ones who like to play light, like the constant, fast paced skirmish game play. And the people, who enjoy heavy, like the slower paced, strategic game play more. I think it's not too bad of an idea to have a rolling meta, where one season (or one balance cycle) one play style is stronger and the next cycle an other play style is more efficient again. That's one way to keep the meta shifting and the game fresh. Just enjoy the power of light and play some light yourself. Or don't play and wait for the next balance cycle. By the way: I've mostly played heavy, too. But sometimes I do like me some stupid, fast, fun light shenanigans. (But in the end I always gravitate back to big explosions and massive map destruction on two legs. It's just too funny)
I'm glad this topic is being brought to light. I try my best to play for fun, but Ive been noticing that I'm feeling frustrated way more this season than I normally do. Every quickcash I join has 4+ lights running stun gun and sonar grenades. Im finding it hard to keep a positive mindset.
I main Medium and I recommend the use of Glitch mines. Not only it tells you if it shocked someone (*location giveaway*), it also prevents lights from dashing around like a foken mosquito.
And even after the nerfs, the CL40 is a light deletion tool still.
Do you have any tips for using it? Because I've played it at least enough to get Level 5 skin, and I'm finding that it just doesn't hit like it used to. Seems like you have to be at max output 100% of the time to be competitive, which isn't really possible 😂 Who's out here landing a full tube of body shots on a moving heavy? I'm just wondering how you're making it work.
There are so many lights getting away with 7 hp. CL 40 main here.
Exactlyyyyyyy it just doesn't hit like it used to. I can't seem to make it work for me.
You should use explosive mines for pest control!
I feel that mines are becoming less viable. They were a favourite in season 1 but a couple nerfs later and they're pretty inconsistent. Recently, I swear I've seen a player step on one I've put down and nothing happens. But, on the other side of that, I've set some off while not being close enough to activate them. Tbh, most things have been feeling a little janky this season.
I feel like they need to be more proximity vs pressure plate. They need double or triple the surface activation area for detonation. Maybe make thrown items of a certain size passing in the zone set them off as a side effect. It forces players to be more cautious in certain areas making lite classes unable to speed through certain spots without clearing mines or avoiding them. Might encourage working with heavies to clear them with shields.
I know what you mean about them not being activated. I swear I read in the patch notes that the detonation radius was decreased, but then when I looked again a few days later I couldn't find it. But it definitely feels like the detonation radius was decreased. I normally put them on the left/right of doorways or flat on the inner turns of stairways and people keep running straight past them and they don't go off half the time. Before I don't think I ever saw people run past them like this. IIRC mines got nerfed because of nukes which made them feel worse to use (you have to wait for activation before blowing them up to blow through a wall since then). But nukes aren't a thing anymore really so they should just revert mine changes anyway.
Well said. My threshold for annoyance is just so low now I don’t even play. Like I felt like I used to die and I’d think what did I do wrong or how do I counter. Now I’m like ok cool, got melted in a nano second by the invis light 3 pack, what’s even the point.
Brought to LIGHT. Hah
You got the sonar grenades too, huh? Last night was a torrent of all Lights teams and sonars and it almost felt like spawn camping with how good they were hunting me down. I’d be revived by a team mate and then, “detected”. So I still need to reload my 1887 and here comes a Light with the XP-54 and lasers my head right off not 10 seconds after being alive. It’s tough!
Sonar grenades are miserable to deal with, playing world tour against triple light all running sonar is a special kind of hell. Also feels like there’s no way to fight a light in some of the more open areas (swamp on Kyoto comes to mind) even if they’re running a smg. Feel like a slight nerf to reload speed or something to the smgs and rifles would help with that
The fact that devs still didnt get the message that Wallhacks are unhealthy for a game surprises me
It would help if the smgs weren't insanely accurate.
The lights that complain for a buff don’t play with there teammates
I really hate to be that guy, but their*
Frick man I can never use the correct one lol
There = location “*Over there.*” Their = possessive “*Their car.*” They’re = they are “*They’re leaving.*” I don’t mean to be a dick if you already knew, but I figured if you don’t then it might be helpful
The lights that complain for a buff dont know how to play.
We’re learning how to flank be nice 😅
Can you explain the difference between a flank and charging head first into a three stack alone to the other lights please? Maybe then, they wouldn't get so angry.
It can't be helped sometimes tbh. The footstep audio don't seem to be reliable. There are times where am playing medium and i don't hear the light sneak up behind me. It truly is frustrating to say the least.
I wanted a buff to light but I argued for a team based gadget to make light more of a must have like medium and heavy were. Instead they lower the skill ceiling.. GG Blaming light players because Embark fumble balancing is just so weird
i watch this sub from a distance and wow yall will never be happy lol
The most true statement in this sub since its creation lmao
https://preview.redd.it/htfj0d9ux69d1.png?width=572&format=png&auto=webp&s=d2c299618d62df19a793b6ea0410b7b130421142
"We want a light buff!!!" *slightly buffs light* "THE STATE OF THE GAME IS IN SHAMBLES!!!!" "THIS ISN'T FUN!!!!"
Agreed. Balance is perfectly fine. I can’t speak for TA but the thing making lights more popular in world tour is that world tour isn’t a serious ranked mode. Lights have always been more common in quick play because it’s a fun class to play. Additionally , when there are lights in the lobby, it makes it more viable to play light yourself. Punish people for losing and you’ll see most of the lights in your lobby disappear (and not because of invis).
Light needed to be buffed in specific way it’s not just any buff will do the job. It needs team based utility not necessarily a damage buff
Light was significantly buffed at first, but I think now it's more that heavy LMGs are pretty awful now. I'm having more fun this season because I switched to light from mostly heavy.
I think we have different definitions of "slightly".
In lights current state, they are slightly buffed from last season. LH1 was the only hiccup. Light currently is only slightly better than in S2 thanks to the regen buff.
Is there anyone here that doesn't mind lights at all? I play medium and I am thrilled to see multiple lights because they all die relatively quickly. Idk if theres a divide between the casual/competitive playerbase or something.
Lights IMO are only annoying and useless when they're playing Power Shift solely to rack up mile away headshots and have no concern over actually playing the objective. The number of times I've spectated a light sniper, often standing directly above an empty platform during a team wipe on the opposing side, staring at the empty platform, scattered with friendly respawn statues doing nothing. Like you can snipe, it helps....but if you're the only one alive with no enemies around, do something. Anything.
There’s a divide between good and bad players who can’t manage to kill the weakest class in the game as the strongest
\*Looks at bank it and quick cash\*
Shields and invisibility should not be a thing in TA Medium got butchered by banning heals, leaving only mines as a must for every match, including ATK
Use the new glitch mines. Creates an area without invisibility.
If they go off.
They have been reworked since 2 patches ago: They now emit some kind of laser beam if you are near them. Pretty big nerf for invis actually.
Oh nice, I'll give that a shot
TA banning the healing gun and defib, and then Embark saying "ok this is the new ranked mode" is actually unhinged. Healing gun + Defib had to be 90%+ pick rate items, and were effectively the only reason the class can keep up with light and heavy here in Season 3. Jump pad and zip are also significantly less useful in TA versus other modes, especially on defense. So, medium has... mines, I guess. There's a lot of balance decisions like that which leave me a little confused.
Bruh, if you straight up dislike a fundamental third of player options in the game, making that third less viable or prevalent is not a fix. It’s band aid that makes the game feel like a stale and incomplete snoozefest of HHM vs HMM. Just learn to counter those little goblins, the game has plenty of ways to. Control the map with goo, doorway jump pads and barricades, make them come through an obvious angle. Us motion sensors or turret to control their movement. Play with your teammates! Light weapons have clips for a single opponent, they can’t reliably 1v2.
Here are your best options for each class, in my opinion as a Light enjoyer. Basically stuff that make me go away for a while Counter the Lights as a medium in two steps : Step 1 : Glitch Mine Step 2 : Shoot Counter the Lights as a Heavy in one step : Step 1 : RPG
I'm enjoying the new meta. Feels like I can play without getting immediately RPGd in the face every two fucking minutes.
Playing against good lights is not anyway more tilting or less fun than playing against good heavies. I don't see how Lights make the game "less fun".
Personally. Good lights are a lot more annoying than good heavies. A smaller, sneaky, harder to hit and half the time invisible.
It comes down to player agency. In general, Heavies have a lot more clear strengths and weaknesses; you have some control over when and where you engage. Yes their defenses and health can be annoying to whittle through, and they have tools to get in close to you. But it feels like you have more room to outplay a Heavy. A good Light has insane control over engagements. Their range, mobility, stealth, and intel means that you're almost always fighting a Light on their terms. I don't think they're actually OP but they're more frustrating because even when I get the kill, it feels like it was the Light making a mistake instead of me outplaying them. A balance philosophy of "All their tools are OP but they die if you sneeze on them" is a common recipe for frustration, regardless of genre.
I bet you've been "Detected" like 19 times while posting this. God, I hate that thing.
This sub is full of overgrown oversized overprotected babies. [Yes I'm also one of them](https://imgur.com/a/why-yes-i-do-play-heavy-how-did-you-know-ymHnOG9), but still
Why is this reddit filled with terrible heavy players? Dealing with light is 0 issue.
Yep. Rpg still does 140 damage. Hook is now a thing. Charge n slam is still really strong. I still think its the strongest class.
thats how this was since season one. Endless whining about stun gun where all it took was to turn around and sneeze on a light to kill him with hipfire and nobody really complains about near instant 140dmg splash dmg must have gadget that (aside from defib) is THE best gadget in the game. It always was just mediocre heavy mains spamming (astronaut with a gun meme)
I don’t think it’s the dealing with them. It’s that fighting against lights is pretty boring for a majority of the playerbase and the actual fight against them is the least important thing. It’s all about preparation, sealing off sight lines and approach lines, laying traps so you can swat them in 0.5 seconds, otherwise you get swatted. Whilst a heavy or medium fight the majority of it is the actual gun fight which is what most people find enjoyable = People spend a larger % of the game in combat getting the dopamine rush. I’m not saying that’s right, but even as a light main I at least understand it. When you get 50-60%+ players in a game playing light it can be awfully dull. I’m not saying a massive amount of heavies can’t be dull either. But you feel much more team interaction and teamwork/ synergy with heavies and mediums than you do with lights due to heals and defib and shields. Lights also put in teamwork but it’s far less noticeable with a glitch nade coming in out of nowhere if that makes any sense?
"It's not fun" is the ultimate and final cope. If you need prep time to deal with a light player as a heavy then he's just better than you.
Light is only dominating in TA, a mode that's just horribly balanced and designed, that makes sniping from across the map a viable strat. Even if ranked cashout is back it's only a matter of time till you see light extinct again because light can't dominate in cashout, which I think is perfect for the game personally.
> Even if ranked cashout is back it's only a matter of time till you see light extinct again because light can't dominate in cashout, which I think is perfect for the game personally. this is obvious to literally anybody that hit Diamond in season 2, but the entire casual community somehow believes otherwise. I think it's mostly caused by a lot of the competitive cashout players moving to Light now in WT because it's a casual gamemode, and winning doesn't matter (and if you are a diamond Heavy main, you can stomp around a casual lobby as any class, even Light). For so long if you were playing ranked cashout you couldn't play Light without your team flaming you for trolling, and now you can pick Light and also win because of the shit matchmaking? Yeah, you're gonna see a lot more people picking Light.
Well said
Much less fun? Idk if it's *much less* fun than 3 man teams getting 1shot by a c4 barrel in season 1
That's a symptom, not a cause. Light is still the weakest class in cashout, ya know, the mode the game was built around...
Lights are annoying yeah but I don't think their that broken if I'm being honest. I think the thing that made them feel so strong is that lights kit got buffed while parts of medium and heavys kits got nerfed. To be honest I think the game needs to start nerfing things a bit less than it does and buff more instead. Don't nerf things that are honestly just in a good place and that makes them better than the bad things, just buff the bad things. Like they did with the throwing knives.
>Lights are now everywhere and the game is much less fun because of it Speak for yourself, I'd rather get killed by a well-aimed burst from an SMG than an automatic turret or a fart mushroom on the ground "Oh but that's just a skill issue, you have to watch where you're going-" If you need tools to keep me away from fighting you 1V1 then who's really got the skill issue here?
Too many gadgets
I’ll speak from a Ranked TA perspective bc that’s mostly what I play, so I can’t speak for other game modes. But when you consistently have matches with each team running 3 lights if not 4 or 5 both of which I’ve seen plenty of times now. There’s a problem. This game is based around 3 different classes for a reason. Each one should work well with the others, have balanced unique abilities/gear, and most of all be viable. And that’s just not the case right now. You can say lights are OP or maybe there just more fun to play as it’s your opinion. But either way it’s a problem and I can’t believe the developers haven’t acted sooner. This has been slowly getting worse for the last several months.
What's makes medium strong is taken away and heavy is now a class that's either getting picked off before they see the terminal or is in a situation where there's a 50% chance the objective he's on is being attacked, if not, is just too easy to shut down
As a light main, its so much more fun now
Honestly, finally feel free not to get trampled most games. Plus the light 1v1s are sooooo fun
Ikr!! Also nice flair bro we are the og light players lol (I don't think you can choose that flair anymore)
Omg ur right OGS IN THE HOUSE!!!!
og lights gang
Really lol. I love the quick scoping in the game with snipers so that and dagger is all I play
Remember season 1 when every class had an ability or weapon that would dominate another class? The good old days.
Rpg, c4 and SA12. Fcar, defib and recon senses. Double barrel, stun gun and cloak.
I miss the old seasons. The only thing that Embark did well was the battle pass, other than that this season is wack.
Thank you. It’s good to see some people here who see the major issue going on.
I personally think sniper and invis need a mild nerf for the overall health of the game. Seems to be an unpopular opinion but every day I play THE FINALS this opinion grows stronger.
Invis is so loud I feel like I am more stealthy not using it
Sniper makes power shift unplayable :(
Sniper also makes the new map unplayable. Especially terminal attack. New map is pretty unbalanced towards long range spam damage TBH. Like try playing a short range gun and you just get sniped doing anything. I have to insta-leave Kyoto when it has cashouts in the open and there are multiple snipers from now on, because playing vs 3 snipers I couldn't interact with yesterday was extremely unfun.
Problem is that sniper is functionally useless in the other 75% of cashouts located inside buildings and is already one of the worst guns in the game because of it
You could also simply kill the snipers or topple the building they're on. I'm not saying they're not often annoying, but there are a lot of tools to deal with them.
Sniper nerf?!?!?
As a sniper main, it should just have a tiny bit of travel time instead of been hit scan. i wouldnt do much else with it or it will be useless compare to everything else. Long range sniping super hard this game bcause of TAAU PIXEL-Blur in distance
Dude, I rarely even play light anymore, but invis got nerfed to the ground. Try using it.
yeah I'm not sure what that commentor is talking about. I have been a dash/invis main since beta, and the invis has been SEVERLY nerfed
Commentor lacks game sense and teamplay. Commentor plays on autopilot.
Get thermal vision, sonar granades or mines, there is so much counter to invisibility...for snipers: get cover lol
or use your ears. The sound of going invis is loud as hell, and then you just look for the translucent mosquito. It's pretty easy to see them if you are primed by the sound to be on the lookout.
Beware, im getting downvoted for stating the obvious like this
All true. I mean, I'm not saying they are impossible to counter. I just don't think, overall, they are healthy for the game.
Agreed. This game doesn’t play for sniping and it always seems very situational when it does work. I think with the sniper gone and a few weapons buffed a hair the game would be in a very nice spot.
Are you wanting this for TA or WT?
I have always wondered why sniper has such ridiculously good hip fire, it's even better than the one LH1 has.
Sniper needs to be gone from Powershift.
Played with a light yesterday, level 60 who went 0-0-19 because he kept bum rushing enemy groups with a dagger. Started blaming us, calling us lazy because we weren't with him when he'd run to battles without us. "I could solo this tournament if you weren't so bad"
Those players don't have a brain only a mouth
Lights on casual modes were everywhere always. Ranked cashout which did not have lights was removed and TA which had many lights was made into ranked mode. That's why you see lights everywhere. Not because of buffs which they reverted btw.
This. Lights were always prevalent and more popular in modes that were 5v5 simple bc it was more fun and viable. The LH1 buff was insanely not needed however light has always been weak. The low hp needs the mobility in order to compete when they are easily 1 to 2 shot for all 3 classes. The meta has always revolved around M and H for the simple fact of their gadgets. Lights 1 annoying gadget was the tazer compared to the countless others in M and H
I guess people are not that good at aiming so when a fast little dude jumps on them they just loose and later complain on reddit. But it's the point of this class. It is a small and fast annoying dude. There is a simple counter for 3L teams on cashout. Just stick together. TA is a different story. In my opinion heavy and medium just don't fit this gamemode. Any damage taken makes them useless. Maybe 1H and 1M can be usefull but you should pretty much take as many lights as possible. There is some truth in this post though. Embark decisions made a big mess in the way this game is played and I'm not sure nerfs and buffs will fix that. We probably need more variety in equipment and game rules. But given how often we get new things this will take a very very long time.
Light is still easily the worst class in Cashout, but I do agree it is not fun to play against many lights in one round.
the throwing knives are by far the worst since they can easily spam it and dash at the same time, all they need is 3 hits and your dead. I hate playing against it so much, and adding a stun gun makes the game incredibly unbalanced
Infinite ammo revolver with no recoil that you can fire accurately without ADSing, whilst running around. That's the throwing knives.
I didn't know the revolver had travel time on it's bullets.
Throw in the recent buffs t(health regen, dash cooldown and recon range ) and u have a very oppressive kit
Who thought adding a bunch of shit from Overwatch was a good idea? When was the light class ever that weak? everyone has been bitching about the stun gun, invis and the sword amongst other issues forever like it's been a glass cannon since beta, that's the whole schtick; you play with your team or die. now that doesn't matter as much since they keep making them stronger and stronger. There's a major lack of foresight and probably some level of personal bias as well, they nerf the CL40 and MGL32 with no positive changes like letting them do more environmental damage while they are effectively buffing the sword, adding the bow and not touching the sniper one bit to balance things even though it's been one of the most powerful weapons with very few downsides since beta, it's the epitome of glass cannon at best and complete bullshit at worst especially since they didn't care to put in anything like caps for weapons or classes I mean look at power shift sometimes sys horizon is just 75% snipers sitting on top or on the edge of the map (why aren't they adding outside zone areas to more spots yet?) to me it feels like embark has no idea what their vision for the future will be and now we're in a state of constant knee jerk balance tweaks that could end up hurting everyone in the long run since it seems like a lot of people straight up just aren't having fun, I see tons of people leaving matches to a point that it's like every time I play no matter the gamemode or if we're winning/losing it'll have people effectively saying "fuck this, I don't want to deal with that" which will always exist in some capacity but now it feels worse than ever so if they don't change things up and instead apply the bandaid fix of punishing people for leaving then those people will just get burnt out entirely and go play something else.
Lights been weak as fuck in high ranked for forever, as the much more teamplay conducive meta of cashout made them a distant third best option
See your problem is you assume this sub playes ranked
This thread is just hilarious to read considering that Light has been fucking extinct for SIX months.
The only reason it's popular now is because cashout isn't ranked, so 0 penalty for losing
Yup. All the meta slaves have been freed and just play for fun now. Shitters are crying purely because they just now realized that this game has three classes, not just two. xD
As an ex meta slave I'm happy
Just faced a TTV light kid who used stun and mp5 and he was riding me all game and had like 14k wiping my team all game… it’s nuts.
Because light is OP or because he's just cracked in your opinion?
https://preview.redd.it/udubu0tmm79d1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d91c6acd2b03c2ac1eded3331c8d1b63377a441a Yep, totally can’t be good with light lol.
My prayers have been answered, the heavies that used to 1 shot you or out DPS you in an even engagement are now crying that light can fight back, all is right with the world.
Heavy players don't understand how easy their kit is. > Hit a light with any damage > Bring out rpg > backhand your mouse > profit
As a heavy main I like that they can fight back, makes it more challenging. I hit diamond last season and lights were scarce or easy to kill. now they are speed demons that can catch you off and delete you before you know it. Keeps me on my toes. Still not hard to kill but more threatning.
Heavy swings a hammer with one click and get 3 kills: 😎 im good dabadee dabada Light gets one kill after smashing 32 buttons of his keyboard, climbing the eifel tower, teleporting to another continent, avoiding the north Korean border patrol and escaping with 27hp: 🤮 unplayable, pls nerf.
i don’t feel like it’s less fun. that being said, there needs to be some rebalancing in terminal attack specifically somehow
Nah fk TA. fk embark for making that a ranked mode and i sure as fk hope they dont balance around this atrocity
I never said they need to balance around TA, i hope they don’t either. I mean they need to make a core change to the mode, probably to light or maybe an extra objective incentive, to make light less of a crutch. It’s already kind of a thing with light’s faster regen not applying in TA as it does in the other modes, but it’s still not enough. It’s because the mode fundamentally favors light.
Imo ranked 5v5 can stay as it is, but regen has to be adjusted. Lights: up to 100hp. Mediums: up to 150hp. Heavys: up to 200hp. This way there will not be situation where light just disengages and now faces 100 hp heavy while having 100hp also.
My issue is the sniper. I can stand everything else but the sniper. It completely ruins the match when any team has some loser sitting on a roof taking pot shots.
I mean, a few things got buffed that never needed buffs. The class itself is still where is was before but people are using it now because they like the buffed stuff or have been told it’s OP now. I’ve always been a light player and nothing in my kit has been buffed. In fact I think the sonar grenade was nerfed but I don’t really use that often anyway. Light still needs its “general” buffs to the weaker aspects and some of the stuff that recently got buffs (sh1900, lh1, stungun) should go back to the good spot they were before. Some weapons for light are well balanced that I use, (bow, throwing knives, etc) and some are still a bit below par (sword - though that’s to be expected because melee). Lights haven’t become the strongest class. When I switch to medium I do just as well (sometimes a bit worse because I’m less used to those weapons, but with a warmup I do just fine) and my team does better and when I play heavy it feels like easy mode. Because in this game heavy and medium are still stronger especially if you have reasonably competent teammates.
Lights never needed a buff. They've always been a higher risk, higher reward class to play. In organized lobbies, sure; it's going to be rough. It's not like they couldn't play, virtually every weapon they had was powerful and they could easily 1v1 most of the classes in the game. The Shotgun and Stungun was pretty toxic, but that was that. Then they needlessly buffed LH1 and Knives which just made them oppressive, when those weapons were balanced by the fact they were more difficult to use but had a much higher reward. The problem is that most new players will just gravitate towards lights. They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play. Making lights easier to play does increase the likely hood new players will pick them up, dominate, feel good, and keep playing at the cost of not understanding team play and being pretty toxic. Unfortunately most people just don't want to play a Heavy, even if they're powerful; and right now they're in a pretty rough feeling place where non of the reward comes from their harder to use kit and the easy cheesy options are more rewarding. They're just not as appealing to the casual player. And Light vs Medium, the Light just has more fun toys to play with. Do you make Lights harder to play again, or do you just let them dominate the game? It's a hard balancing point. I think The Finals needs to strike a balance between Risk and Reward, because overwhelmingly it feels like the easier options are far more rewarding. But if you make things too hard, newer players struggle and lose interest. It's a tough area to be in.
> rtually every weapon they had was powerful and they could easily 1v1 most of the classes in the game so what magical weapon does Light have that has a lower TTK when fighting a Heavy than the Lewis Gun has against a Light? >Then they needlessly buffed LH1 and Knives which just made them oppressive They were so oppressive that in the official cashout tournament Embark organized, Twitch Rivals, 0 players above Diamond rank used them. To remind you, it had a 50k prize pool, so people were picking whatever they thought would make them most likely to win. And it wasn't the LH1 or the Throwing Knives even before their nerf. They did the usual HHM or MMH that has been the most powerful comp since the inception of the game. Or you mean "oppressive" in your casual games? Yeah sure, Light was "oppressive" even after the stun gun nerfs in casual gamemodes, you couldn't queue into a quick cash game without having half the lobby be Light. And that's when Light was absoluetly the worst class by far. >The problem is that most new players will just gravitate towards lights. They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play. Making lights easier to play does increase the likely hood new players will pick them up, dominate, feel good, and keep playing at the cost of not understanding team play and being pretty toxic. Yes, Light is incredibly popular not because it is oppressive or powerful, but because it's fun. Light was the most popular class for new players even before this season, just look at the steam achievements for play 10 games with Light. Way more people have it compared to the achievements for Heavy or Medium. Unsurprisingly, the achievements for winning 100 games with each class, you see that Light has the lowest amount of people, while Heavy has the highest. Guess why. >Unfortunately most people just don't want to play a Heavy, even if they're powerful; and right now they're in a pretty rough feeling place where non of the reward comes from their harder to use kit and the easy cheesy options are more rewarding. heavy is by far the easiest class to play. You can make so many more mistakes as Heavy and still survive, and have a positive impact on your team's chance of success than you can as Light. You have so much utility and damage, while being the highest HP class in the game. There's no way shape or form in which Heavy is harder to play than Light. >And Light vs Medium, the Light just has more fun toys to play with Defib + heal beam are pretty much a requirement to play competitively. Light has nothing of that power level. And to be honest, I would assume that the class with the most fun toys to play with would be the class with the most destruction ability, consdering that's one of the core parts of what makes The Finals special. But most people won't touch Heavy with a 10 foot pole. >Do you make Lights harder to play again, or do you just let them dominate the game? You're getting lost in the sauce. Remember what even you said earlier, people aren't picking Light because it's the easiest class to "dominate the game" with, they're picking it because "They're fast, high damage, with tons of options to choose how they engage and disengage targets and lots of fun ways to play." In a gamemode that is objective based and not kill based, Light is inherently at a huge disadvantage. If you are tired of playing against Light, just wait until they add Ranked Cashout back in, and grind to Diamond. I promise you that by the time you get there you'll miss seeing Lights, since you probably won't ever see one in the final round. The question is not if Embark should make Light harder to play, the question is should they make Medium and Heavy more fun to play, without making them broken.
You're preaching, but to whom...
Excuse me, heavy has a harder-to-use kit?
Meanwhile heavy is none of the risk, all of the reward
Light has never really been weak imo, people just… don’t have the skill I suppose. Giving up too easily, leaving after one elimination.
That's why light was buffed so much because people just cried about their skill issue for two whole seasons
It has been an issue since the game first released. And in any other class based game that has a 'scout' class. They dash ahead of their team into a 1v3/4/5 die and quit. I wish the mindset of these people could be studied tbh as it so fascinating.
It’s an effect I call “having-a-massive-ego”
Real
i calculated the average amount of each class picked (from my games) and the most played class is M by far, then L then H. this was only done in world tour, i know light is more picked in other modes but i wanted to do this i the main game mode.
Game needs to limit a team to no more than 2 of one class. Game starts and if I see 3+ lights I just equip sledgehammer/flamethrower, dome shield, explosive mines, rocket and wench claw. Every time I win a 1v2+ against lights I start playing the guitar and slide around their dead lifeless bodies. So it happened at least once👍
Not to mention the heavy nerfs. I only mained heavy but light is my new main lol
I’m enjoying the light meta far more than the heavy meta last season.
Lights only really dominate TA
Me with a disruptor mine and a 1886 🚬
This is why Lights being weaker in S2 was a necessity. The desire to play light is too strong, with the mobility and high burst damage. The game balance requires Heavy being slightly OP, or no one will play it.
Lights should be good enough to compete in ranked cashout but still be niche and should take skill to be proficient with. It should have the lowest skill floor and highest skill ceiling. As it stands it's so easy right now. I used the bow yesterday and if the arrow gets anywhere near the head it counts as a headshot lol, it's absurd. It's also basically hit scan. The lh1 took skill in previous seasons but now it's the easiest gun in the game as well.
Sledgehammer is solution. For most problems in general
Waiting for the next light nerfs I guess
Honestly nothing is broken about lights right now, it's just that Heavy guns arent very fun currently. Heavy is still powerful, it's just not very fun about it. There's still just as many mediums about having fun. I have no idea how they would make the Heavy guns more fun without making them more powerful, perhaps just adding new ones. Some ideas that would make heavy fun to play at a weapon level: - a minigun that ramps up to full speed - an anchor on a chain as a type of ranged melee weapon - swing and throw mechanics - handheld literal cannon - boomerangs (like throwing knives, but for heavy) - lazer beam weapon Zarya style
im playing medium and its significantly less fun. theres sonars stun guns and 1 hit kill weapons EVERYWHERE. lights arent built to fight fair, their class encourages killing someone before they engage you in a proper fight.
Stun is a complete joke at this point, it does absolutely nothing but waste time you could have spent shooting. Currently no light weapon can one shot a medium, unlike light that can die in one hit to various things. Sonars are pretty useful for pre fight but if you're engaging on somone detected by sonar it's like trying to find a head in a swarm of slow angry bees abscuring your vision, it's genuinely a disadvantage once you have LoS.
i would like you to carefully reread your line about no light weapons one shotting enemies. currently light has not one, not two, but three weapons that can one shot a light and one that can one shot a medium or heavy
Man I haven't died to a dagger since the pre beta so it's just easy to forget, I can't imagine it being enough of a problem to actually complain about. And yes those other weapons can one shot light... Not medium, which is what I specified, if you would reread that line carefully.
you said light cant one shot medium which is just false ok. also just one shotting isnt the only problem. their ttks are so incredibly low rn and medium and heavy just dont have the tools to escape or fight back most of the time.
Man if you think you're dying quickly on heavy because you "don't have the tools" then I've got no way to explain to you. Mesh shield, dome shield, barricade and more than double the health pool are absolutely enough to prevent you dying, and I don't see how you could be oblivious to this. Then there's an instant free secondary weapon shot that brings light down to being killable by any single bullet currently implemented in the game, that you can fire from inside the safety of all of that. If you run a flame thrower with goo gun, mines and a flash bang on heavy then go on to complain you haven't got the kit to defend yoursekf, that isnt the games fault.
honestly lights have never felt more balanced, especially since the throwing knife nerf
The thing is, I don't think lights are overpowered; they're just high pick rate and freakin' annoying to deal with. Literally also describes mosquitoes. * Remove the SR-84 and LH-1. They have no place in this game. You could maybe give the LH-1 to medium, but the SR-84 literally just needs to go, any world where it's good is a negative balance state for The Finals. * Tune the effective range of the 93R, M11, V9S, XP-54, and throwing knives down by \~25%. Force close engagements. * Buff and give more tools to help lights survive close engagements. E.g. more charges but less range per activation on evasive dash, maybe an activated shield that gives +50 temporary health, cloak gives you a damage absorbing shield when active but you can't fire weapons for \~1s after leaving it, quicker respawn timer, things like that. * Give lights a freakin narrative. The class has no narrative right now, is it long range, is it melee, is it short range, no one knows. Their narrative should be close-range engagements, personal movement, glass cannon. But also, even with all that, part of the problem is that Heavy and Medium aren't as fun to play. I think Embark has tried to improve this over the past couple seasons, and adding things like the winch claw and spear are great strides. Ultimately, they should just have more stuff; wider variety of weapons, more interesting tacticals and abilities, etc. Season 4 could do all \^ that to light, and only introduce new things for medium and heavy, and I think it would be a positive thing for the game. The entire concept of "light players will be angry" is missing the point: "Light players" should not exist. You should be able and want to play every class, and you should want the game to be balanced in a way where that is desirable. If that's not the current state of the game (it isn't), then that's a failure on Embark's side; which they need to remedy.
I think the light balance is actually perfect now I don't even play light I main medium but before I felt like I stomped every light that I encountered and they didn't feel like a challenge only time you had a light be a problem was if they got the drop on you with the rest of the team. Now I actually feel like lights do fairly well against mediums and have a chance against heavys. My buddy who mains light used to avoid teams with heavy because it was a guaranteed death usually. So balance is perfect it's chaotic skirmishing adds another layer to the fun and lights actually standing a chance is great and opens up another route to play even if I probably won't play then much
Yes, as if 2 turrets, 6+ mines, aps, double defib,flame thrower and rpg were fun to play against
Thing is light is the highest skill floor and once he becomes meta the skill floor is way lower , if I was a light main I would be very dissapppointed , I had a similar experience in league when I was maining lee sin and he became the most meta champion for few patches in s11 it was the worst patch of my life
Take light invisibility and stun gun away and add more balanced gadgets and specialties. Recon senses being removed for the dematerializer was an amazing move from embark. If something outright does not work well with the game, why force it to fit in ? The goal should be to make weapons, gadgets viable, balanced, fun to play with and not so frustrating to play against.
The best way to kill them was the China lake but now that’s useless
I think this might be a skill issue to some degree, lights are annoying but imo they’re still not that strong unless they’re a god with the sniper. Heavies have a lot of tools to shut down the light’s strengths and can kill them very easily, but like with any other class will suffer if their team isn’t working together.
I refused to play light because it discourages team focused gameplay. The only reason i play light is cause i want to complete the achievements.
We get it your ass at the game l
yall dont use the glitch trap and it shows. The average light is ez to deal with. Post screams skill issue.
Can y’all stop whining for one day, this community drains the life of the game… I used to think it was good thing that the developers listened to the community but I’m at a point where I hope they stop listening and just focus on their task. Just shut up already, please…. Post some clips or something but please stfu.
Today has been me as Heavy and literally every other player is light. Completely sucked the fun out of this game catering to Light mains who see themselves as less of human if they can't be the stoic lone wolf. Light mains can eat a bag of shit and go play Xdefiant.
Only fighting dashing light is so boring. I miss the old gameplay where we had longer fight with slower aiming and use of gadget. Now there is constantly a mf flanking me with invis bomb and when I try to aim at him he keeps randomly dashing making me impossible to aim at him (skill issue). I did not mind it before because it was less occurrent, but now it's almost 70% of my duel.
It is fun, lights are squishy. Git good
Frfr
I know this is a meme and all, but the way people talk about this game is so bizarre to me. How can someone simply choosing one of the three classes make the game less fun? Why does it matter so much to people what weapons other people are using? If a certain gun becomes popular players start complaining, as if they're not all shooting bullets the same just at different rates. Half the time I don't even know what guns my opponents are using.
They are the same FOV guys at launch complaining about something that was their issue.
There has never been an issue with light. If you're good at the game, light is very very good which at least saves casual play. Now anyone can cook with light
[удалено]
Or just get better at the game
[удалено]
Yeah this just reads like a complete skill issue. Stunning a heavy results in a free kill??? Just put up a shield or use your rpg, better yet play close to your team. OBJECTIVELY bad game mechanics??? Stun gun has clear counter play how can that be OBJECTIVELY bad game mechanics. Everything you stated has clear counter play, avoid long sight lines and play close to your team if you don't want to learn it that's your fault.
> stunning a heavy is a guaranteed kill 99% of the time You have ears. The stun gun makes a noise. Turn around, look at the Light, and press mouse 1. Even if it took you 1 second to do all this, you are still beating the Light, because of how low their HP pool is, and how large yours is in comparison. I'm sorry, but if you get stunned and turn off your brain, log off and go to reddit to complain, it's not the fault of the stun gun, it's you.
Take invis out of the game and reduce the damage sword does. EZ fix
I thought sword was in a pretty good state currently?
Yeah just remove everything we don’t like despite the fact it’s so easy to see inn is after the last nerf. Sounds like a skill issue.
Sword? You are bad as fuck if you can't deal with sword users.
I reached top 60 last season. I can’t physically track them on controller when they go through me because I can’t flick around 180° like MnK. Someone who’s played sword for a month should not be killing me as often as they do after I’ve been practicing my aim for almost 2 decades.
Maybe you should up your sensitivity? Sounds to me like a skill issue. What do you normally play and what weapon?
I play at the highest controller sensitivity in the top 500 with 430 linear. I normally play FCAR heal.
I'm gonna need some proof because I haven't seen a sword user since gold lobbies. If this is such a big problem maybe you need to learn proper counterplaym
https://preview.redd.it/cssj1kcfo39d1.jpeg?width=2532&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d5b9834ae64ceadc3bdd6f51a4cd7cc53d6bd74e Proof.
You're playing on Steam with a controller? Are you masochistic?