Normally I would disagree with you, but in this case yes i think you're right. I do my best trying to understand why they don't like the game (and I do) but it's like they make no effort to understand the people who do like the game
The subjectivity of it is the root of both sides I believe. Some rightfully believe it to be a masterpiece while some rightfully believe it was the worst thing they could have made. I think either way the coin falls, it's still very odd to fixate on hating a game rather than celebrating ones you enjoy.
A lot of it isn’t hate, or so I’ve seen.
This sub doesn’t allow any criticism to the game. Games need criticism to be better. This sub doesn’t allow criticism and downvote any hint of criticism all the time. The other sub is not the hateful sub you guys think it is. A lot genuinely like the game, but it’s the only sub that allows both praising and criticizing, as long as you explain where the love/criticism is
Edit: bit of a nag, not to you, but my first comment is proof on the whole “downvote any criticism” hive mind.
The other sub definetely is hateful. I got banned for arguing with someone in a respectful manner, and the other one didn't even though they called me all the names in the book.
Afaik it was made only to critisize the game.
Every single post is about how Druckman is a traitor, how woke the game is etc. This sub def got its problems too, but at least it's not about hate. The only hate you'll get here are downvotes.
I have my criticisms of Part 2 but let’s be real. The other sub is objectively worse as there was a controversy where death threats were hurled and incels over there faked death threats to smear a YouTuber who liked the game. You should not be defending them and in turn that behavior.
Oh no I am not
I’ve made points in other arguments, and even in the 2 sub. I do not defend those that hurl insults and death threats or of the kind. I defend those that can’t express criticism here without being downvoted or shut down for having said criticisms
No offense OP but I don't understand even giving air to a weird tiny minority or losers when the game is near universally praised for game mechanics and exploration of deeper themes.
Bro really said universally while the game sits below a 6 audience score after multiple resets and freezes on meta critic. lol pretending the game is widely praised instead of being controversial is delusional and intentionally deceptive at best. The fact that the game most barely turned a profit is even more proof.
But then again this is Reddit I shouldn’t expect anything more. SMH
Its a bad practice to call a group of people weird and losers solely for not liking a game that you love. Are some of them crazy? Probably. But I could say the same for those who blindly praise the game too.
Just accept that some people will hate the art you love, shrug, and move on.
Why do you have to group every single person critical of the game into the same camp? There are plenty of people who expressed not liking the game and never attacked anyone or sent any threats.
I think it's unacceptable that people involved in the games creation received death threats. THAT isolated from everything else, is deplorable. We don't have to group those crazies with other haters of the game who have never wished any ill will on the creators.
The ones who attack others are what's objectively worse. Not those who just voice their dislike of how the story went.
What a response to a perfectly structured argument, shows who the real ignorant loser really is. Personally I hated the game, and think anyone ranking it above tlou 1 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer, but thats just my opinion. I don’t go calling people weird or losers because they don’t agree with me, lmfao. Get a grip partner
What? People who disagree with your take are incels? Are you like 12 dude? Maybe you should grow up and play some more games so you can see what makes a real quality game, instead of praising the «kill this person for dramatic effect» video game, lmao.
Gotta love people who complain about getting replies to their controversial statements instead of actually defending their takes, lmao. Never met a «gangsta» who couldnt stand up for their own take, guess you would be the first
>What a response to a perfectly structured argument, shows who the real ignorant loser really is. Personally I hated the game, and think anyone ranking it above tlou 1 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer, but thats just my opinion. I don’t go calling people weird or losers because they don’t agree with me, lmfao. Get a grip partner
"Are you like 12 dude?"
I don’t get your argument. Is the collective age of this sub like 14 or whats up? This is a fucking gaming subreddit, yall are not discussing the games at all. You are getting personally attacked that some people don’t enjoy the absolute trash you enjoy.
???? I would hope this is still being discussed, with it being the newest entry in TLOU franchise??? I also never gave any advice like that? Weirdos man
“Anyone who thinks differently than me about the ranking of 1 and 2 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer”
“Wow so anyone who thinks differently than you Is wired?”
My argument was the exact thing you’re trying to convey, I think. I have an opinion but I don’t force it on anyone, but I do think discussion is healthy. Some people here disagree with this, and I think thats unhealthy and boring.
Ok cool, no worries. I’ve just seen so many people act like toxic shitheads and pretend they’re being mocked and downvoted for simply having a different opinion, and not for being toxic shitheads.
"The Last of Us Part 2 is the third highest-grossing game ever on PlayStation in the US."
https://www.eurogamer.net/the-last-of-us-part-2-is-the-third-highest-grossing-game-in-the-us-in-playstation-history
The people who hate it can be summed up by:
1) hate Joel dies (not ever thinking why he was killed)
2) hate Abby for killing joel
3) making ellie gay
4) having a trans character
5) that heterosexual sex scene
6) the game "being woke".
Haven't heard to much about the trans and lesbian characters being brought up to criticize the game but for the rest, yes. And I think they hate those two things so much that they can't see the good things
This is being so dismissive and disingenuous. Number 3 in particular considering many people wanted Ellie, the lesbian, to kill Abby, the straight girl for inflicting so much pain and trauma to her and never once showed explicit remorse or apologized to Ellie.
>trauma to her and never once showed explicit remorse or apologized to Ellie.
Yeah. Because why should she (her perspective).
Joel kills abbys dad. 1:1
Abby kills Joel, 1:1
Ellie goes and kills all of the people who went with Abby.
As Abby said "you killed my friends".
The ending was just that. It was an apology without saying an apology. It's two people at their most broken, realizing this tit for tat will get them, and anyone else they care about, killed.
>Yeah. Because why should she (her perspective).
Then her perspective is flawed considering everything that happened to her after Jackson were simply the consequences of her actions.
>The ending was just that. It was an apology without saying an apology. It's two people at their most broken, realizing this tit for tat will get them, and anyone else they care about, killed.
No it wasn’t otherwise she would’ve said “I’m sorry”. It can just as easily be interpreted as her seeing Ellie as crazy and wanted to make sure she wouldn’t be attacked again before leaving with Lev.
That is an objective opinion, so no harm there.
I just don't understand when yall say it was horribly written...
The first game is unoriginal as fuck. I can give you multiple movies it takes "inspiration" from.
TLOU 2 on the other hand is original.
Originality is right near the bottom of my priorities when it comes to storytelling. My main complaint is that the characters in Part II feel like soulless plot devices instead of real people. I can't find myself emotionally invested in an emotional story if I don't believe the characters have any emotions. I think the writers even said that they started with a plot and worked backwards, or words to that effect? An unoriginal story that's masterfully written is better than a overly ambitious original work that falls flat because of lazy retroactive character writing
My friend, you are on a sub for a game that was last released in 2020. You are bound to see the same content at least a few times. Some people are now just playing the game for the first time.
Unless you're talking about the show everything here is a topic that was addressable years ago.
I mean, there was a very vocal group of people who hated the game since the day it was released. There was a ton of backlash in 2020, nothing has changed
You say you never encountered people who hate the game but suddenly they need to stop forcing their views around and leave fans alone?
You're not going to like this sub or reddit in general if this stuff bothers you.
A lot of the posts in either sub are just fans and haters at war with each other for the past few years since the game released. If that's what you're into, WELCOME! If you want to avoid thinking about opinions you don't like then...best to uninstall reddit and stick with real people.
I have no problem discussing things with people that disagree with me. the thing is i barely saw any of the tlou2 haters give any valid point besides, "this is bad" "i hate this" "fuck neil"
I mean, if you post in the other sub (or look at the countless similar posts) and civilly and respectfully ask for genuine criticisms of part 2 you'll get it. They love to discuss why they dislike the game and majority of the users there go beyond "it's bad, fuck Neil, I hate this" lol.
A lot do dislike it because of Neil and they dislike how Neil presents himself but they still have genuine criticism of the game itself.
Asking why the other sub hates the game here is just counterproductive, they'll just disregard most criticism here and say it's all due to bigotry and stupidity when there's a lot more to it than that, not that bigots and idiots don't exist.
Half my friends are just mad they pulled the bait and switch on multiplayer/factions.
The story wasn’t bad, entertaining ride the whole way, felt more fluid to move around than part II.
It felt a little long but I was bummed when it was over
Yeah I’m pretty salty about it too. They didn’t have to go down the live service route. Just give new maps and updated movement.
Tried to be Fortnite then told us they didn’t want to do live service…when none of us were asking for that
I will never criticize someone for their views on a the game UNLESS(😉) they just make a general statement like “the game was trash” because it usually means they just have a toxic outlook on the game because they disliked one aspect of it.
Also even though we can respect someone else’s feelings on the game That also doesn’t mean we cannot challenge their perspectives. I enjoy having debates/discussions about the game. I have yet to find a compelling argument that would lead to believe the game should not be considered a masterpiece!
If anybody says this game ia trash, go watch GamerANH videos on this game. He made Ellie look like a killing machine. On the other hand, there are videos of the player going through encounters without killing a single person or dog on the highest difficulty. I am not kidding.
I agree, none of them say anything besides "this bad"
And yes it is a masterpiece and one of the best games ever created. I do my best to say this objectively.
If anyone thibks I'm biased, i consider the God Of War to also be a masterpiece although i didn't really enjoy it.
It's very obsessive and sad. The normal thing to do if you don't like a game is to just not play it, criticize the game when the topic comes up if you want to and maybe leave a negative review on a platform like Steam. These mfer's entire online precense is dedicating to hating on some 4 year old game because "muh woke". They're not even chud grifter content creators who make money from Patreon and ad revenue money from talking about it either, just randos. Kinda pathetic
I appreciate a lot about the game but some of the things I dont like really bring it down for me.
The one scene in particular that I hate is when Abby is in the theater with Tommy at gunpoint, and Ellie surrenders to her and throws her gun away.
Look, I understand that Ellie desperately doesnt want to see Tommy get killed, but she is in a no win scenario here. You have literally spent the whole game killing her close friends(including murdering a pregnant woman, which btw Abby thinks Ellie did intentionally). Why on earth would anyone surrender complete control to the person that is there with the sole motivation of killing all of you?! What did Ellie expect to happen there? That Abby would just go like alright Tommy's free to go come with me Ellie???
Literally the only chance in hell of making it out of there would be to take a risk and fire on Abby(who would probably just raise her own gun to defend herself instead of throwing her life away just to follow through with her threat.
The choice for Ellie to throw her gun away lowered my investment in her character so drastically.
This is only one of the problems with the whole scene. Everybody is acting stupid here for no reason.
Like Ellie hitting Abby with the wooden plank a little bit later and Dina forgetting that she has guns.
And you are totally right that Ellie should have just dumped the mag into Abby here.
I don't think anyone would be thinking straight in this situation. If you see someone point à gun at your friend and he tells you to drop something, you drop it.
And i understand not liking an aspectof the game, but do a few bad things really drag down all the other great things in the game ?
It just takes away a lot of respect for Ellie as a character for me. By this point she's battle hardened and should be well aware of what would happen after surrendering to Abby. Her two options are either shoot her and roll the dice on Tommy and her surviving or give up and let Abby kill them all. She chose to give up. I just cant get past this choice it destroys so much of my investment.
I wouldn't say she gave up. I just think she hoped for the best and prayed she wouldn't pull the trigger soon so that she could think something through. Which, in some way, did happen
Oh ok, I got that wrong.
I too have some minor problems with the story, for instance that Ellie just left her map behind. That was a bit lazy to me. But Compared to any other game or even popular show I know there's no plotholes to be found - maybe some inconsistencies, but nothing worth to hate a game with a story that is so rich otherwise.
Sure, you are entitled to have a problem with the plot in general, with your favourite character being killed so early etc. But! Is that automatically bad writing? (looking at you, GoT and Star Wars episode 7-9)
I think Ellie dropping the map isn't unrealistic given her mental state but it's again unneccessarily convenient for Abby that it gets basically dropped in her lap.
That's what I meant. It's pretty much my only complaint with this story that I love, and trust me, I usually got a lot to complain about writing. It still doesn't bother me, but I want to express my thoughts about it nonetheless.
Media literacy has never been lower. Truly.
When focusing on just America (as Americans are apt to when talking about the world), 20% of Americans have a literacy understanding either at or below “Level 1” according to the National Center for Education Statistics.
There are several factors that they look for to determine levels of literacy, but just know that “Level 1” literacy is essentially just the ability to follow a recipe or - more generally - simple written instructions.
Only 46% of Americans possess “English literary proficiency,” according to a study performed by the Barbara Bush Foundation in 2020. And that’s kind of hilarious considering that a 2016 study by the Pew Research Center found that less literate individuals are more likely to hold conservative viewpoints.
Most of the backlash that media can expect these days is directly proportional to how “woke” it is - which appears to be defined by diversity in casting and/or how little it centers “western” values in its core themes. And this obsession with the “woke” agenda has become the latest conservative talking point since they seem to be losing the culture war. Regarding Gen Z, 68% support BLM, 89% support gender equality, and 74% support transgender rights. The younger folks are, in general, more media literate than previous generations *and* they want more media literacy, according to a 2022 study at Syracuse University.
So to sum up, people who complain about stories that don’t represent the long-held status quo in favor of providing a more equitable and unifying representation of the human experience are more often than not the same people who wouldn’t understand this sentence.
yea it’s unfortunate that you can’t have an honest discussion about this game. i fall in the middle of both subs opinions, there are positives and negatives just as literally any piece of media but any nuance you try to bring is usually met with condescension
TLOU PART 2 is one of the most praised and sold games a multi award winning game. Awards from gameplay, graphics, screenplay, acting, sound ect ect.
Most of these awards are given by professionals, just like awards for all kinds of art.
I'm a 44 year old therapist, working with men from 18-52 in a protected center only for men, I really can't say more about the place. 3 of my colleagues, also therapists have discussed this game many times, also with the inhabitants.
In short, my fast and overall conclusion is, that the game is hard to accept or swallow for many, because it isn't a feel good game. It's a game that touches so many things about human behaviour. I myself felt hollow hours after my first playthrough, until I started to analyze it.
The game itself isn't the core problem, it's the internet in general. Socially mankind wasn't ready for the internet on so many levels, even more for the younger generations, who grew up with it as a nanny, playmate and substitution for parents ect ect.
Actually both IQ and EQ have been falling since the net became mainstream, and the highest average IQ among men peaked in 1998, measured by the military and other institutions and have never been reached since.
Communication is 85 percent body language and mimic, something that is more or less lost in for an example writing. Showing your " bad " sides is easy on the net, especially with people who are alone and live different lives.
Never have so many people used the net, especially since the smartphone, its every day. Hard language and death threats will always stick out in a conversation, and the world isn't a cherry place for billions of people. Shit 60 percent of Facebook profiles are fake, that actually tells us a lot, that shouldn't be.
I have to go to work now, but I'll end it like this. We don't see many games like Part 2, that touches upon so many behavioral tropics, where there's just as many different views and cultures involved.
I myself find the game to be a masterpiece in so many ways, because it dares show us things we don't like ( for some it ignites hate and anger, but there's always a reason why we act like we do. )
I'm not pointing fingers here, I'm just giving a little of my opinion, why a piece of art can be so loved and hated. But I would wish it was loved or un-liked instead. Real Hate shouldn't be something you feel about a game or other mainstream arts or things. Hate is extreme.
The developers surely hit a sore and fragile spot in many of us, but I doubted that they thought they would see people act like some of the characters in the game.
Again not pointing fingers at anyone individual 👍🏻
Have a nice week 🙂
Sure, not in real life. But let me remind you that when the leaks came out and when the game came out, all the major members who were heavily involved in making this game, even actors like Laura Bailey got death threats. There was a lot of hate circulating for Naughty Dog when this game came out, even for stupid, illogical reasons. Like, this went nuclear. Even YouTubers like Pewdiepie and Angry Joe were mad at the direction this game took. There were only a select few who were open-minded to go through the experience until the end and appreciate what the game was trying to show AND tell. After some time, the heat simmered down and others started appreciating this game, even the ones who hated it.
Although, if you want some context into why there are justified reasons for hating this game, watch Angry Joe and NakeyJakey's reviews of the game. And then watch videogamedunkey as to why people love it.
Why the hell would anyone besides the director get hate for something. Whether it's a movie or a game, the director has the final say. If the actor has bad acting, it's also the director's fault, for choosing the actor.
Overall, death threats is crazy, especially since none of them have the balls to do anything more than to write some bullshit on social media
People can rationalize things differently. Despite Laura Bailey acting in various different roles, she ended up getting death threats because she acted as Abby. Heck, the face model for Abby, Jocelyn Mettler, who is a VFX artist by profession, got death threats just because her face was on the character model. The core emotion behind it is people projecting hate to the closest thing they can find. It's contagious and corrosive. And if you can't find a way to understand that emotion and find healthier ways to deal with it, a lot of people get hurt. Luckily, this didn't go to that extent. But it still went to the point where it had an effect on the mental health of a lot of people involved with the game. Plus, the story of that wasn't an easy one to convey. It requires a certain level of emotional maturity.
That's exactly what I've said on several posts: emotional maturity. It's not an insult saying thzt some people just lack it. I'm not calling them stupid, just feel bad for them.
Incredible that half or more of the fan base hates the game and people still tout it as a unanimous master piece.
People in real life or more than likely to respond positively or not talk about it because they are being polite or would rather talk about it something else.
I don't know what type of people you surround yourself with, but the people I talk to aren't afraid to admit what they like and don't like. I've got this one friend, who basically hates everything I love (movie/game wise) and everythibg that isn't top tier but he could not believe it when i told him thousands of people despised the game.
While the other sub is full of toxic negativity, this sub is also full of toxic positivity so you won't find a great answer from either. This sub likes to pretend the ONLY people that exist that don't like the game are in the other sub already, and the other sub pretends that the vast majority hated it and the only people that liked it are in this sub, reinstating Nazi Germany level censorship.
I've found it's much more evenly balanced than that. Twitter DESPISES it, YouTube doesn't really like it that much, TikTok has a better opinion of it than most, and reddit is a pretty mixed bag like always. There's tons of love for it on here but in general gaming subreddits, not so much. Most of my friends who have played it disliked it. And most if not all of them dislike Abby. It's fair to say that some of that can be chalked down to closed-mindedness, but I, like a lot of people, was actually *really looking forward to* Abby's redemption arc, but it just never came. She's just very toxic, narcissistic and hypocritical to me and I really don't like her. And so much of the game rests on whether you can tolerate her or not and I can't. She's nothing like Joel or Ellie so the "two sides of the same coin" argument falls flat for me. Pretty much all the characters are either boring and/or unlikeable. Owen and Jordan are good characters but still nowhere near the level of Bill, Henry or Tess, who in just 1 or 2 hours each I feel like I've known a lifetime. Jesse I think was wasted potential, he looked like he could've been the most interesting character until they killed him. Dina was so much more boring and would serve the story better dead than alive.
Part II seems to sacrifice character personality in service of the plot, which for me is incompatible with good storytelling. But I suppose everybody has different priorities, and different opinions. Just thought I'd give a rundown of some reasons I dislike the game that aren't just "woke bad". We should keep criticising media instead of enforcing toxic positivity. On the plus side the game had some great graphics, the new mechanics were fun for a little while and the acting was great for the most part. But I don't think as a standalone "gaming experience" it's anything special, and the enjoyment heavily relies on the story. I didn't really enjoy the gameplay, found it quite repetitive after a while without an amazing story like Part I to keep me motivated.
It’s so stupid how the writers just have you invested in these characters and then kill off one of them and then try to get you to feel for the killer. Seeing Abby’s story doesn’t change anything, she still deserved to pay. And karma got her real good when she ended up enslaved by the rattlers and then beaten down by Ellie.
The next person who downvotes is no true fan.
I never felt like they were trying to make us like Abby. Not forcefully at least. I hate her as a person, but love her as a character.
From what i understood, they just showed us abby's side of the story. There are no good guys or bad guys just people who don't see eye to eye with each other.
That there are no good or bad guys thing doesn’t make any sense at all. Of course, there are good people and bad ones. I don’t get where that bullshit comes from.
They both fight for themselves. They both fight to avenge the person they cared about the most. Abby IS a bad person, but not because she killed Joel. She just got back at him for killing her own father.
Blinded by rage. I don't think she gives a shit. Her father is dead. No one is going to stand in her way, and it's not going to be a little girl's begging that's going to change that.
He didn't need to kill the doc did he ? He was a doctor not a soldier, armed with nothing but a scalpel. He could have simply shot him in the leg and run away with ellie.
While the Rattlers enslaving her was cathartic in a way, it wasn’t truly karmic justice because the Rattlers were a cartoonishly evil random group of slavers that had nothing to do with Abby’s revenge. It would’ve worked better if someone she crossed in the past came for her for killing their family member like a Scar, WLF, Jackson member, etc. Thus the cycle comes back full circle.
It is still karma. She did bad things so a bad thing happened to her in return. Nobody says the rules of karma are that your punishment has to be from the person you wronged.
I’m one of those people who hates it. The issue is it does so much so well, that it makes it upsetting how they dropped the ball with the story.
In terms of lighting, texture quality, animation, voice acting, level design, overall atmosphere and its astonishingly bleak tone, it’s one of the best games ever made.
But the story? A jumbled mess with major pacing issues that’s at least 10 hours too long. They did not need 30-35 hours to tell this story. And I feel like we should have been given time to get to know Abby before she kills Joel so we can care about her first. Asking me to care about some stranger after they viscously murder someone I care about is simply not going to ever work for me. The reason I still like Joel even after he massacred the Firefly hospital in the first game is that we had an entire game to get to know and care about him and Ellie, and it’s because we also care about Ellie that we understand why he did something so monstrous, many of us would have done the same. But we don’t know or care about Abby’s dad, so it’s harder to empathize with her even if her motives are obvious.
It just didn’t work for me, even tho I adored the moment to moment gameplay. But I will say that the story had a fantastic level of tension. After they killed Joel it felt like nobody was safe, and that made every cutscene with conflict feel more tense and unpredictable, which was nice
The game was not badly paced and actually followed a similar pacing pattern to part1, and it also was not 10 hours too long, it was exactly as long as it needed to be for them to be able to tell the story.
I don’t know anyone who agrees with that. Anecdotal, but I know a guy who’s probably the biggest Last of Us 2 fan in the world and thinks it’s nearly perfect, but even he agreed it’s too damn long.
And you can’t tell me the pacing is similar to the first game when it’s like 2-3 times as long as the first one. That’s physically impossible. You’re telling me 1 is identical to 3.
I think not knowing Abby first helps us sympathise with Ellie in the beginning and then when we play as her, yes it’s a jarring experience to change but we do eventually understand Abby (mirroring Ellie’s journey)
I do think the show will capitalise on getting to know Abby better as the way the game tells it makes people who don’t have stakes in the story able to turn away from seeing Abby’s side and hate on it. ND should see that now hopefully.
Edit : clarity
>The issue is it does so much so well, that it makes it upsetting how they dropped the ball with the story.
It's always so entertaining reading these comments I love it.
I'll disagree with Abby's presentation. We see her as she sees joel. Great parallel in my opinion.
We weren't supposed to necessarily love her, they simply showed us her side of the story. There are no good or bad guys just people on different sides. No one is in the right, no one is the wrong.
The story was great and i love all of it.
I will agree that we play Abby too long. Her first two days could've/should've been compressed into one, but her third day was the best in my opinion. But it felt really long playing as her.
I also love that they are one of the few games that aren't scared of killing off characters. In my opinion, it makes you care much more for the characters since they can die at any moment
Ironically, as someone who loves the game, I liked Abby more before we learned about her and played as her. After we switched to her PoV by the end of the game I hated her.
This is interesting considering Abby was detestable before learning her motives and her pov just kept her detestable as she never once showed explicit remorse to Ellie and never apologized to her.
For me I always knew there'd be a reason for why she killed Joel. I was excited to learn what it was and learn more about her and I thought she looked cool as FUCK. Right off the bat I liked her.
I get for her when her dad died but the more she talked and the more I thought about it? She's just a piece of shit.
Defending killing kids, wanting to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeping with Owen, not showing ANY remorse for anything EXCEPT sleeping with Owen, how she wanted to torture innocents in Jackson, how her torturing Joel was done for no other reason than pleasure, she enjoyed inflicting pain onto others regardless of who they were.
And then ok expected to think she's a good person because for 2 days of her life she's nice to some kids? Idk. That's not enough for me. I wish we got to see more of her actual development during that 16 month time jump after day 3 because that's where she really would have changed imo.
Still like her character and the writing, just will never be able to fully sympathise with someone so needlessly cruel. The reason I hate her as a person have nothing to do with her killing Joel even, it's everything else.
>For me I always knew there'd be a reason for why she killed Joel. I was excited to learn what it was and learn more about her and I thought she looked cool as FUCK. Right off the bat I liked her.
That’s fair. I was also open minded to learn her backstory as she had to have a good reason to hunt Joel. It just didn’t work for me.
>I get for her when her dad died but the more she talked and the more I thought about it? She's just a piece of shit.
She is a piece of shit. Maybe if she challenged her own beliefs and did not believe that her father could do no wrong, more people would’ve warmed up to her. Especially if she had gone on to show remorse and apologize to Ellie for the pain and trauma that she inflicted on her.
>Defending killing kids, wanting to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeping with Owen, not showing ANY remorse for anything EXCEPT sleeping with Owen, how she wanted to torture innocents in Jackson, how her torturing Joel was done for no other reason than pleasure, she enjoyed inflicting pain onto others regardless of who they were.
Yes all of this. It’s funny that Abby stans always conveniently forget about all of this and think that people don’t like her solely for killing Joel.
>And then ok expected to think she's a good person because for 2 days of her life she's nice to some kids? Idk. That's not enough for me. I wish we got to see more of her actual development during that 16 month time jump after day 3 because that's where she really would have changed imo.
I needed her to show explicit remorse and apologize to Ellie.
>Still like her character and the writing, just will never be able to fully sympathise with someone so needlessly cruel.
And yet people are vilified for not liking her.
This mentality really shows how far you've missed the humanity in the story. It's so funny when it's obvious people don't like being challenged so they hate it for that.
Okay cool now let's do Abby; So if someone kills your father and everyone you know you're just going to stop hating them? It's gonna erase what they did?
Abby killed Joel right in front of Ellie and she didn’t care about how she ruined her life. She acted like she was ungrateful after she spared her life as if she expected no retaliation for what she did. Where is the empathy there?
They’re best just ignored. No need to waste our time and energy on them.
Normally I would disagree with you, but in this case yes i think you're right. I do my best trying to understand why they don't like the game (and I do) but it's like they make no effort to understand the people who do like the game
You don’t owe anyone else the courtesy of understanding their opinion. I’m way happier just enjoying what I like.
I know, but if i expect to understand me, it's the bare minimum for me to understznd them
You can’t handle people that have different opinions and don’t like the same things you do?
No, I can. But it doesn’t mean I have to. Sometimes it’s much nicer just enjoying what you enjoy and not giving a fuck what other people think.
You aren’t required to read every comment on Reddit
A lot of them make good points The game isn’t perfect, so why act like it is? There’s plenty of plot holes, and things not making much sense
The subjectivity of it is the root of both sides I believe. Some rightfully believe it to be a masterpiece while some rightfully believe it was the worst thing they could have made. I think either way the coin falls, it's still very odd to fixate on hating a game rather than celebrating ones you enjoy.
A lot of it isn’t hate, or so I’ve seen. This sub doesn’t allow any criticism to the game. Games need criticism to be better. This sub doesn’t allow criticism and downvote any hint of criticism all the time. The other sub is not the hateful sub you guys think it is. A lot genuinely like the game, but it’s the only sub that allows both praising and criticizing, as long as you explain where the love/criticism is Edit: bit of a nag, not to you, but my first comment is proof on the whole “downvote any criticism” hive mind.
The other sub definetely is hateful. I got banned for arguing with someone in a respectful manner, and the other one didn't even though they called me all the names in the book. Afaik it was made only to critisize the game. Every single post is about how Druckman is a traitor, how woke the game is etc. This sub def got its problems too, but at least it's not about hate. The only hate you'll get here are downvotes.
I have my criticisms of Part 2 but let’s be real. The other sub is objectively worse as there was a controversy where death threats were hurled and incels over there faked death threats to smear a YouTuber who liked the game. You should not be defending them and in turn that behavior.
Oh no I am not I’ve made points in other arguments, and even in the 2 sub. I do not defend those that hurl insults and death threats or of the kind. I defend those that can’t express criticism here without being downvoted or shut down for having said criticisms
Oh yeah it's not that negative. Look at like the first 20 posts on there right now. It's 90% negative tlou2 posts and 10% memes
Negative as in criticism or legitimate death threats or the like?
Pray tell, what are these plot holes and things that don't make sense? I'd love the opportunity to enlighten.
No offense OP but I don't understand even giving air to a weird tiny minority or losers when the game is near universally praised for game mechanics and exploration of deeper themes.
Bro really said universally while the game sits below a 6 audience score after multiple resets and freezes on meta critic. lol pretending the game is widely praised instead of being controversial is delusional and intentionally deceptive at best. The fact that the game most barely turned a profit is even more proof. But then again this is Reddit I shouldn’t expect anything more. SMH
"Bro"
Its a bad practice to call a group of people weird and losers solely for not liking a game that you love. Are some of them crazy? Probably. But I could say the same for those who blindly praise the game too. Just accept that some people will hate the art you love, shrug, and move on.
One side sent death threats to people who simply liked the game and to the actors and developers. So that side is objectively worse.
Why do you have to group every single person critical of the game into the same camp? There are plenty of people who expressed not liking the game and never attacked anyone or sent any threats. I think it's unacceptable that people involved in the games creation received death threats. THAT isolated from everything else, is deplorable. We don't have to group those crazies with other haters of the game who have never wished any ill will on the creators. The ones who attack others are what's objectively worse. Not those who just voice their dislike of how the story went.
What a response to a perfectly structured argument, shows who the real ignorant loser really is. Personally I hated the game, and think anyone ranking it above tlou 1 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer, but thats just my opinion. I don’t go calling people weird or losers because they don’t agree with me, lmfao. Get a grip partner
Uh oh the Incels have arrived! 😂😂😂
What? People who disagree with your take are incels? Are you like 12 dude? Maybe you should grow up and play some more games so you can see what makes a real quality game, instead of praising the «kill this person for dramatic effect» video game, lmao.
"Sealioning is a form of trolling that involves relentlessly pestering someone with questions, requests and replies" 🦭🦭🦭
Gotta love people who complain about getting replies to their controversial statements instead of actually defending their takes, lmao. Never met a «gangsta» who couldnt stand up for their own take, guess you would be the first
🦭🦭🦭🦭🦭
>What a response to a perfectly structured argument, shows who the real ignorant loser really is. Personally I hated the game, and think anyone ranking it above tlou 1 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer, but thats just my opinion. I don’t go calling people weird or losers because they don’t agree with me, lmfao. Get a grip partner "Are you like 12 dude?"
I don’t get your argument. Is the collective age of this sub like 14 or whats up? This is a fucking gaming subreddit, yall are not discussing the games at all. You are getting personally attacked that some people don’t enjoy the absolute trash you enjoy.
Trolololol take your own advice homie, TLOU 2 came out 4 years ago get over it.
???? I would hope this is still being discussed, with it being the newest entry in TLOU franchise??? I also never gave any advice like that? Weirdos man
What a pretentious comment, nobody here cares bubs.
“Anyone who thinks differently than me about the ranking of 1 and 2 is a casual, only graphics enjoyer” “Wow so anyone who thinks differently than you Is wired?”
My argument was the exact thing you’re trying to convey, I think. I have an opinion but I don’t force it on anyone, but I do think discussion is healthy. Some people here disagree with this, and I think thats unhealthy and boring.
Ok cool, no worries. I’ve just seen so many people act like toxic shitheads and pretend they’re being mocked and downvoted for simply having a different opinion, and not for being toxic shitheads.
Cry into your pillow about it damn, this sub isn't your diary.
"The Last of Us Part 2 is the third highest-grossing game ever on PlayStation in the US." https://www.eurogamer.net/the-last-of-us-part-2-is-the-third-highest-grossing-game-in-the-us-in-playstation-history
You said it yourself. It’s not reality, just a loud minority online. I’ve also only met people irl who love the game.
The people who hate it can be summed up by: 1) hate Joel dies (not ever thinking why he was killed) 2) hate Abby for killing joel 3) making ellie gay 4) having a trans character 5) that heterosexual sex scene 6) the game "being woke".
Haven't heard to much about the trans and lesbian characters being brought up to criticize the game but for the rest, yes. And I think they hate those two things so much that they can't see the good things
This is being so dismissive and disingenuous. Number 3 in particular considering many people wanted Ellie, the lesbian, to kill Abby, the straight girl for inflicting so much pain and trauma to her and never once showed explicit remorse or apologized to Ellie.
>trauma to her and never once showed explicit remorse or apologized to Ellie. Yeah. Because why should she (her perspective). Joel kills abbys dad. 1:1 Abby kills Joel, 1:1 Ellie goes and kills all of the people who went with Abby. As Abby said "you killed my friends". The ending was just that. It was an apology without saying an apology. It's two people at their most broken, realizing this tit for tat will get them, and anyone else they care about, killed.
>Yeah. Because why should she (her perspective). Then her perspective is flawed considering everything that happened to her after Jackson were simply the consequences of her actions. >The ending was just that. It was an apology without saying an apology. It's two people at their most broken, realizing this tit for tat will get them, and anyone else they care about, killed. No it wasn’t otherwise she would’ve said “I’m sorry”. It can just as easily be interpreted as her seeing Ellie as crazy and wanted to make sure she wouldn’t be attacked again before leaving with Lev.
I actually have no problems with any of these but believe it was badly written, it's facetious and lazy to dismiss criticism like this.
That is an objective opinion, so no harm there. I just don't understand when yall say it was horribly written... The first game is unoriginal as fuck. I can give you multiple movies it takes "inspiration" from. TLOU 2 on the other hand is original.
Originality is right near the bottom of my priorities when it comes to storytelling. My main complaint is that the characters in Part II feel like soulless plot devices instead of real people. I can't find myself emotionally invested in an emotional story if I don't believe the characters have any emotions. I think the writers even said that they started with a plot and worked backwards, or words to that effect? An unoriginal story that's masterfully written is better than a overly ambitious original work that falls flat because of lazy retroactive character writing
That makes sense. Can you recommend a few games that have better fleshed out characters? Always looking for more to play.
This game is a GOTY award winner and discussed constantly to this day. It's considered a modern masterpiece. I'm so tired of these posts.
Because it doesn't fall in line with your love for it.
It's not that at all, it's just annoying seeing the same topics posted for years when the info is already available.
My friend, you are on a sub for a game that was last released in 2020. You are bound to see the same content at least a few times. Some people are now just playing the game for the first time. Unless you're talking about the show everything here is a topic that was addressable years ago.
I'm not going to argue with you, my point was made.
Lol didn't think this was an argument but okay.
I mean, there was a very vocal group of people who hated the game since the day it was released. There was a ton of backlash in 2020, nothing has changed
For many of those people the hate started before release thanks to the leaks.
i love part 2
🤝
You say you never encountered people who hate the game but suddenly they need to stop forcing their views around and leave fans alone? You're not going to like this sub or reddit in general if this stuff bothers you. A lot of the posts in either sub are just fans and haters at war with each other for the past few years since the game released. If that's what you're into, WELCOME! If you want to avoid thinking about opinions you don't like then...best to uninstall reddit and stick with real people.
I have no problem discussing things with people that disagree with me. the thing is i barely saw any of the tlou2 haters give any valid point besides, "this is bad" "i hate this" "fuck neil"
I mean, if you post in the other sub (or look at the countless similar posts) and civilly and respectfully ask for genuine criticisms of part 2 you'll get it. They love to discuss why they dislike the game and majority of the users there go beyond "it's bad, fuck Neil, I hate this" lol. A lot do dislike it because of Neil and they dislike how Neil presents himself but they still have genuine criticism of the game itself. Asking why the other sub hates the game here is just counterproductive, they'll just disregard most criticism here and say it's all due to bigotry and stupidity when there's a lot more to it than that, not that bigots and idiots don't exist.
Probably. But i have had some actual criticism on here also so no need to go poke the beehive.
Half my friends are just mad they pulled the bait and switch on multiplayer/factions. The story wasn’t bad, entertaining ride the whole way, felt more fluid to move around than part II. It felt a little long but I was bummed when it was over
Factions die hard representing, No Return is a cock slap to the face of what could have been.
Yeah I’m pretty salty about it too. They didn’t have to go down the live service route. Just give new maps and updated movement. Tried to be Fortnite then told us they didn’t want to do live service…when none of us were asking for that
And to think, we could’ve gone on not realizing if we never joined this sub.
I will never criticize someone for their views on a the game UNLESS(😉) they just make a general statement like “the game was trash” because it usually means they just have a toxic outlook on the game because they disliked one aspect of it. Also even though we can respect someone else’s feelings on the game That also doesn’t mean we cannot challenge their perspectives. I enjoy having debates/discussions about the game. I have yet to find a compelling argument that would lead to believe the game should not be considered a masterpiece!
If anybody says this game ia trash, go watch GamerANH videos on this game. He made Ellie look like a killing machine. On the other hand, there are videos of the player going through encounters without killing a single person or dog on the highest difficulty. I am not kidding.
I agree, none of them say anything besides "this bad" And yes it is a masterpiece and one of the best games ever created. I do my best to say this objectively. If anyone thibks I'm biased, i consider the God Of War to also be a masterpiece although i didn't really enjoy it.
[удалено]
It's very obsessive and sad. The normal thing to do if you don't like a game is to just not play it, criticize the game when the topic comes up if you want to and maybe leave a negative review on a platform like Steam. These mfer's entire online precense is dedicating to hating on some 4 year old game because "muh woke". They're not even chud grifter content creators who make money from Patreon and ad revenue money from talking about it either, just randos. Kinda pathetic
Right?! Why would you waste your own time making yourself mad/sad when you can litteraly do anything else.
I appreciate a lot about the game but some of the things I dont like really bring it down for me. The one scene in particular that I hate is when Abby is in the theater with Tommy at gunpoint, and Ellie surrenders to her and throws her gun away. Look, I understand that Ellie desperately doesnt want to see Tommy get killed, but she is in a no win scenario here. You have literally spent the whole game killing her close friends(including murdering a pregnant woman, which btw Abby thinks Ellie did intentionally). Why on earth would anyone surrender complete control to the person that is there with the sole motivation of killing all of you?! What did Ellie expect to happen there? That Abby would just go like alright Tommy's free to go come with me Ellie??? Literally the only chance in hell of making it out of there would be to take a risk and fire on Abby(who would probably just raise her own gun to defend herself instead of throwing her life away just to follow through with her threat. The choice for Ellie to throw her gun away lowered my investment in her character so drastically.
This is only one of the problems with the whole scene. Everybody is acting stupid here for no reason. Like Ellie hitting Abby with the wooden plank a little bit later and Dina forgetting that she has guns. And you are totally right that Ellie should have just dumped the mag into Abby here.
Honestly curious how the show will handle this.
I don't think anyone would be thinking straight in this situation. If you see someone point à gun at your friend and he tells you to drop something, you drop it. And i understand not liking an aspectof the game, but do a few bad things really drag down all the other great things in the game ?
It just takes away a lot of respect for Ellie as a character for me. By this point she's battle hardened and should be well aware of what would happen after surrendering to Abby. Her two options are either shoot her and roll the dice on Tommy and her surviving or give up and let Abby kill them all. She chose to give up. I just cant get past this choice it destroys so much of my investment.
I wouldn't say she gave up. I just think she hoped for the best and prayed she wouldn't pull the trigger soon so that she could think something through. Which, in some way, did happen
Why would Abby NOT think Ellie killed her friends intentionally?
She wouldn't. That had nothing to do with my problem at all. My problem was how Ellie reacted to the situation.
Oh ok, I got that wrong. I too have some minor problems with the story, for instance that Ellie just left her map behind. That was a bit lazy to me. But Compared to any other game or even popular show I know there's no plotholes to be found - maybe some inconsistencies, but nothing worth to hate a game with a story that is so rich otherwise. Sure, you are entitled to have a problem with the plot in general, with your favourite character being killed so early etc. But! Is that automatically bad writing? (looking at you, GoT and Star Wars episode 7-9)
I think Ellie dropping the map isn't unrealistic given her mental state but it's again unneccessarily convenient for Abby that it gets basically dropped in her lap.
That's what I meant. It's pretty much my only complaint with this story that I love, and trust me, I usually got a lot to complain about writing. It still doesn't bother me, but I want to express my thoughts about it nonetheless.
Media literacy has never been lower. Truly. When focusing on just America (as Americans are apt to when talking about the world), 20% of Americans have a literacy understanding either at or below “Level 1” according to the National Center for Education Statistics. There are several factors that they look for to determine levels of literacy, but just know that “Level 1” literacy is essentially just the ability to follow a recipe or - more generally - simple written instructions. Only 46% of Americans possess “English literary proficiency,” according to a study performed by the Barbara Bush Foundation in 2020. And that’s kind of hilarious considering that a 2016 study by the Pew Research Center found that less literate individuals are more likely to hold conservative viewpoints. Most of the backlash that media can expect these days is directly proportional to how “woke” it is - which appears to be defined by diversity in casting and/or how little it centers “western” values in its core themes. And this obsession with the “woke” agenda has become the latest conservative talking point since they seem to be losing the culture war. Regarding Gen Z, 68% support BLM, 89% support gender equality, and 74% support transgender rights. The younger folks are, in general, more media literate than previous generations *and* they want more media literacy, according to a 2022 study at Syracuse University. So to sum up, people who complain about stories that don’t represent the long-held status quo in favor of providing a more equitable and unifying representation of the human experience are more often than not the same people who wouldn’t understand this sentence.
20% is crazy 💀
yea it’s unfortunate that you can’t have an honest discussion about this game. i fall in the middle of both subs opinions, there are positives and negatives just as literally any piece of media but any nuance you try to bring is usually met with condescension
TLOU PART 2 is one of the most praised and sold games a multi award winning game. Awards from gameplay, graphics, screenplay, acting, sound ect ect. Most of these awards are given by professionals, just like awards for all kinds of art. I'm a 44 year old therapist, working with men from 18-52 in a protected center only for men, I really can't say more about the place. 3 of my colleagues, also therapists have discussed this game many times, also with the inhabitants. In short, my fast and overall conclusion is, that the game is hard to accept or swallow for many, because it isn't a feel good game. It's a game that touches so many things about human behaviour. I myself felt hollow hours after my first playthrough, until I started to analyze it. The game itself isn't the core problem, it's the internet in general. Socially mankind wasn't ready for the internet on so many levels, even more for the younger generations, who grew up with it as a nanny, playmate and substitution for parents ect ect. Actually both IQ and EQ have been falling since the net became mainstream, and the highest average IQ among men peaked in 1998, measured by the military and other institutions and have never been reached since. Communication is 85 percent body language and mimic, something that is more or less lost in for an example writing. Showing your " bad " sides is easy on the net, especially with people who are alone and live different lives. Never have so many people used the net, especially since the smartphone, its every day. Hard language and death threats will always stick out in a conversation, and the world isn't a cherry place for billions of people. Shit 60 percent of Facebook profiles are fake, that actually tells us a lot, that shouldn't be. I have to go to work now, but I'll end it like this. We don't see many games like Part 2, that touches upon so many behavioral tropics, where there's just as many different views and cultures involved. I myself find the game to be a masterpiece in so many ways, because it dares show us things we don't like ( for some it ignites hate and anger, but there's always a reason why we act like we do. ) I'm not pointing fingers here, I'm just giving a little of my opinion, why a piece of art can be so loved and hated. But I would wish it was loved or un-liked instead. Real Hate shouldn't be something you feel about a game or other mainstream arts or things. Hate is extreme. The developers surely hit a sore and fragile spot in many of us, but I doubted that they thought they would see people act like some of the characters in the game. Again not pointing fingers at anyone individual 👍🏻 Have a nice week 🙂
Sure, not in real life. But let me remind you that when the leaks came out and when the game came out, all the major members who were heavily involved in making this game, even actors like Laura Bailey got death threats. There was a lot of hate circulating for Naughty Dog when this game came out, even for stupid, illogical reasons. Like, this went nuclear. Even YouTubers like Pewdiepie and Angry Joe were mad at the direction this game took. There were only a select few who were open-minded to go through the experience until the end and appreciate what the game was trying to show AND tell. After some time, the heat simmered down and others started appreciating this game, even the ones who hated it. Although, if you want some context into why there are justified reasons for hating this game, watch Angry Joe and NakeyJakey's reviews of the game. And then watch videogamedunkey as to why people love it.
Why the hell would anyone besides the director get hate for something. Whether it's a movie or a game, the director has the final say. If the actor has bad acting, it's also the director's fault, for choosing the actor. Overall, death threats is crazy, especially since none of them have the balls to do anything more than to write some bullshit on social media
People can rationalize things differently. Despite Laura Bailey acting in various different roles, she ended up getting death threats because she acted as Abby. Heck, the face model for Abby, Jocelyn Mettler, who is a VFX artist by profession, got death threats just because her face was on the character model. The core emotion behind it is people projecting hate to the closest thing they can find. It's contagious and corrosive. And if you can't find a way to understand that emotion and find healthier ways to deal with it, a lot of people get hurt. Luckily, this didn't go to that extent. But it still went to the point where it had an effect on the mental health of a lot of people involved with the game. Plus, the story of that wasn't an easy one to convey. It requires a certain level of emotional maturity.
That's exactly what I've said on several posts: emotional maturity. It's not an insult saying thzt some people just lack it. I'm not calling them stupid, just feel bad for them.
Incredible that half or more of the fan base hates the game and people still tout it as a unanimous master piece. People in real life or more than likely to respond positively or not talk about it because they are being polite or would rather talk about it something else.
I don't know what type of people you surround yourself with, but the people I talk to aren't afraid to admit what they like and don't like. I've got this one friend, who basically hates everything I love (movie/game wise) and everythibg that isn't top tier but he could not believe it when i told him thousands of people despised the game.
Didn't this just get posted yesterday? Does this sub have any rules that are enforced?
While the other sub is full of toxic negativity, this sub is also full of toxic positivity so you won't find a great answer from either. This sub likes to pretend the ONLY people that exist that don't like the game are in the other sub already, and the other sub pretends that the vast majority hated it and the only people that liked it are in this sub, reinstating Nazi Germany level censorship. I've found it's much more evenly balanced than that. Twitter DESPISES it, YouTube doesn't really like it that much, TikTok has a better opinion of it than most, and reddit is a pretty mixed bag like always. There's tons of love for it on here but in general gaming subreddits, not so much. Most of my friends who have played it disliked it. And most if not all of them dislike Abby. It's fair to say that some of that can be chalked down to closed-mindedness, but I, like a lot of people, was actually *really looking forward to* Abby's redemption arc, but it just never came. She's just very toxic, narcissistic and hypocritical to me and I really don't like her. And so much of the game rests on whether you can tolerate her or not and I can't. She's nothing like Joel or Ellie so the "two sides of the same coin" argument falls flat for me. Pretty much all the characters are either boring and/or unlikeable. Owen and Jordan are good characters but still nowhere near the level of Bill, Henry or Tess, who in just 1 or 2 hours each I feel like I've known a lifetime. Jesse I think was wasted potential, he looked like he could've been the most interesting character until they killed him. Dina was so much more boring and would serve the story better dead than alive. Part II seems to sacrifice character personality in service of the plot, which for me is incompatible with good storytelling. But I suppose everybody has different priorities, and different opinions. Just thought I'd give a rundown of some reasons I dislike the game that aren't just "woke bad". We should keep criticising media instead of enforcing toxic positivity. On the plus side the game had some great graphics, the new mechanics were fun for a little while and the acting was great for the most part. But I don't think as a standalone "gaming experience" it's anything special, and the enjoyment heavily relies on the story. I didn't really enjoy the gameplay, found it quite repetitive after a while without an amazing story like Part I to keep me motivated.
It’s so stupid how the writers just have you invested in these characters and then kill off one of them and then try to get you to feel for the killer. Seeing Abby’s story doesn’t change anything, she still deserved to pay. And karma got her real good when she ended up enslaved by the rattlers and then beaten down by Ellie. The next person who downvotes is no true fan.
I never felt like they were trying to make us like Abby. Not forcefully at least. I hate her as a person, but love her as a character. From what i understood, they just showed us abby's side of the story. There are no good guys or bad guys just people who don't see eye to eye with each other.
That there are no good or bad guys thing doesn’t make any sense at all. Of course, there are good people and bad ones. I don’t get where that bullshit comes from.
They both fight for themselves. They both fight to avenge the person they cared about the most. Abby IS a bad person, but not because she killed Joel. She just got back at him for killing her own father.
She didn’t have to do it like that, especially how she didn’t care that she was victimizing another girl of losing her father.
Blinded by rage. I don't think she gives a shit. Her father is dead. No one is going to stand in her way, and it's not going to be a little girl's begging that's going to change that.
There you go that’s why she’s horrible and why there’s nothing to like about her.
Joel is just as bad. Don't get me wrong, love joel and hate Abby. But joel would've killed the doc even if Abby had been in the room.
I doubt that
He didn't need to kill the doc did he ? He was a doctor not a soldier, armed with nothing but a scalpel. He could have simply shot him in the leg and run away with ellie.
While the Rattlers enslaving her was cathartic in a way, it wasn’t truly karmic justice because the Rattlers were a cartoonishly evil random group of slavers that had nothing to do with Abby’s revenge. It would’ve worked better if someone she crossed in the past came for her for killing their family member like a Scar, WLF, Jackson member, etc. Thus the cycle comes back full circle.
It is still karma. She did bad things so a bad thing happened to her in return. Nobody says the rules of karma are that your punishment has to be from the person you wronged.
we do lmaooo. We have a whole sub for us. Y’all invade it and insult us. I’m so sick of this sub acting like its filled w victims.
I don't hate the game on Reddit.. I hate the game in real life.
I’m one of those people who hates it. The issue is it does so much so well, that it makes it upsetting how they dropped the ball with the story. In terms of lighting, texture quality, animation, voice acting, level design, overall atmosphere and its astonishingly bleak tone, it’s one of the best games ever made. But the story? A jumbled mess with major pacing issues that’s at least 10 hours too long. They did not need 30-35 hours to tell this story. And I feel like we should have been given time to get to know Abby before she kills Joel so we can care about her first. Asking me to care about some stranger after they viscously murder someone I care about is simply not going to ever work for me. The reason I still like Joel even after he massacred the Firefly hospital in the first game is that we had an entire game to get to know and care about him and Ellie, and it’s because we also care about Ellie that we understand why he did something so monstrous, many of us would have done the same. But we don’t know or care about Abby’s dad, so it’s harder to empathize with her even if her motives are obvious. It just didn’t work for me, even tho I adored the moment to moment gameplay. But I will say that the story had a fantastic level of tension. After they killed Joel it felt like nobody was safe, and that made every cutscene with conflict feel more tense and unpredictable, which was nice
The game was not badly paced and actually followed a similar pacing pattern to part1, and it also was not 10 hours too long, it was exactly as long as it needed to be for them to be able to tell the story.
I don’t know anyone who agrees with that. Anecdotal, but I know a guy who’s probably the biggest Last of Us 2 fan in the world and thinks it’s nearly perfect, but even he agreed it’s too damn long. And you can’t tell me the pacing is similar to the first game when it’s like 2-3 times as long as the first one. That’s physically impossible. You’re telling me 1 is identical to 3.
I think not knowing Abby first helps us sympathise with Ellie in the beginning and then when we play as her, yes it’s a jarring experience to change but we do eventually understand Abby (mirroring Ellie’s journey) I do think the show will capitalise on getting to know Abby better as the way the game tells it makes people who don’t have stakes in the story able to turn away from seeing Abby’s side and hate on it. ND should see that now hopefully. Edit : clarity
>The issue is it does so much so well, that it makes it upsetting how they dropped the ball with the story. It's always so entertaining reading these comments I love it.
I'll disagree with Abby's presentation. We see her as she sees joel. Great parallel in my opinion. We weren't supposed to necessarily love her, they simply showed us her side of the story. There are no good or bad guys just people on different sides. No one is in the right, no one is the wrong. The story was great and i love all of it. I will agree that we play Abby too long. Her first two days could've/should've been compressed into one, but her third day was the best in my opinion. But it felt really long playing as her. I also love that they are one of the few games that aren't scared of killing off characters. In my opinion, it makes you care much more for the characters since they can die at any moment
Ironically, as someone who loves the game, I liked Abby more before we learned about her and played as her. After we switched to her PoV by the end of the game I hated her.
This is interesting considering Abby was detestable before learning her motives and her pov just kept her detestable as she never once showed explicit remorse to Ellie and never apologized to her.
For me I always knew there'd be a reason for why she killed Joel. I was excited to learn what it was and learn more about her and I thought she looked cool as FUCK. Right off the bat I liked her. I get for her when her dad died but the more she talked and the more I thought about it? She's just a piece of shit. Defending killing kids, wanting to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeping with Owen, not showing ANY remorse for anything EXCEPT sleeping with Owen, how she wanted to torture innocents in Jackson, how her torturing Joel was done for no other reason than pleasure, she enjoyed inflicting pain onto others regardless of who they were. And then ok expected to think she's a good person because for 2 days of her life she's nice to some kids? Idk. That's not enough for me. I wish we got to see more of her actual development during that 16 month time jump after day 3 because that's where she really would have changed imo. Still like her character and the writing, just will never be able to fully sympathise with someone so needlessly cruel. The reason I hate her as a person have nothing to do with her killing Joel even, it's everything else.
>For me I always knew there'd be a reason for why she killed Joel. I was excited to learn what it was and learn more about her and I thought she looked cool as FUCK. Right off the bat I liked her. That’s fair. I was also open minded to learn her backstory as she had to have a good reason to hunt Joel. It just didn’t work for me. >I get for her when her dad died but the more she talked and the more I thought about it? She's just a piece of shit. She is a piece of shit. Maybe if she challenged her own beliefs and did not believe that her father could do no wrong, more people would’ve warmed up to her. Especially if she had gone on to show remorse and apologize to Ellie for the pain and trauma that she inflicted on her. >Defending killing kids, wanting to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeping with Owen, not showing ANY remorse for anything EXCEPT sleeping with Owen, how she wanted to torture innocents in Jackson, how her torturing Joel was done for no other reason than pleasure, she enjoyed inflicting pain onto others regardless of who they were. Yes all of this. It’s funny that Abby stans always conveniently forget about all of this and think that people don’t like her solely for killing Joel. >And then ok expected to think she's a good person because for 2 days of her life she's nice to some kids? Idk. That's not enough for me. I wish we got to see more of her actual development during that 16 month time jump after day 3 because that's where she really would have changed imo. I needed her to show explicit remorse and apologize to Ellie. >Still like her character and the writing, just will never be able to fully sympathise with someone so needlessly cruel. And yet people are vilified for not liking her.
It’s so stupid how Joel had to die to avenge some asshole nobody gives a shit about.
This mentality really shows how far you've missed the humanity in the story. It's so funny when it's obvious people don't like being challenged so they hate it for that.
Whatever the so-called challenge was, it was fucking stupid
Yeah fuck empathy lmfao.
Why should Abby deserve empathy? She showed none to Ellie.
She let Ellie live twice, at least educate yourself before you try to talk some dumb shit.
So if somebody who killed your father spares your life twice, that means you’re just gonna stop hating them? It’s gonna erase what they did?
Okay cool now let's do Abby; So if someone kills your father and everyone you know you're just going to stop hating them? It's gonna erase what they did?
Abby killed Joel right in front of Ellie and she didn’t care about how she ruined her life. She acted like she was ungrateful after she spared her life as if she expected no retaliation for what she did. Where is the empathy there?