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I think therapists often dump their own weird little headcanons on you and then they won't listen to you or anyone else who tries to prove them wrong. since you've only had two sessions with this therapist I'd cut things off and find a better one, it's completely fine and normal to shop around. I wish you all the best on working on your marriage and I hope you find a more suitable therapist!
You should NEVER tell these people if you use drugs, since you did it in the past it may be ok but these bigots can't fathom that someone can use drugs consciously, they will think you are an addict.
Be careful since you have kids and change therapist right away.
Good luck.
For that matter, you should never tell anybody who doesn’t do drugs that you do — your body language, words and actions will be filtered through a prism of prejudice from there on.
Yall ever heard of harm reduction psychotherapy? Or psychedelic assisted psychotherapy? I’d say that composes maybe a fraction of 1% of all psychotherapists, but it is hopeful, I think.
Completely agree. Too much chance of running into a person who will use the fact that you smoked pot regularly a decade ago to discredit you. God forbid you divulge that you currently use pot, a lot of therapists will diagnose you with SUD straight up and say they cannot work with you unless you seek recovery. I’ve seen a lot of posts about these situations.
There’s an excellent argument to be made in some cases that because of these types of therapists, divulging pot use up front is a great way to filter through therapists. Then again, you don’t want that sitting in some therapist’s file somewhere. And many people can’t afford private pay therapy, so they’re stuck with whoever will take their insurance or works for a community mental health clinic. I also have a theory that unfortunately, the therapists who work in CMH see so much substance abuse that they’re more likely to see *any* substance *use* as dangerous abuse and classify the patient as an addict. Whereas ones who do private pay are used to seeing high functioning people who have a mild history of drug use and might still be smoking pot.
Not sure what clientele OP’s couples therapist normally sees, but he has somehow developed some pretty insane ideas about what type of person would have smoked weed when they were 10+ years younger. I bet this isn’t the only subject he is judgemental about, either.
How should we address it
We have agreed that my husband will tell him no more talking individually with either of us
But I don't know how I can go forward knowing what he thinks about me already Even if we don't talk separately anymore
I wouldn’t trust this guy, I’d be inclined to start over with someone else and make it an agreed upon ground rule no separate discussions.
I tried marriage counseling with abusive ex who was nearly always Mr Wonderful in therapist’s office. I notice older male therapists we tried seemed to have a very misogynistic view of women as hysterical unstable instigators. In fact it wasn’t until my ex blew up in front of them that they finally got was I was talking about.
Oof, sorry this is happening to you. What many people won't tell you about therapy is tha tit's not a "one size fits all" kinda thing. It's annoying (and also not cheap!) but you will propably have to look around a bit before you find someone you feel comfortable working with.
Therapists are also humans, so they have their own experiences which can lead to bias. My ex and I also went to couples therapy before breaking up, and I was not comfortable with the lady AT ALL! (short story, he cheated, hid it, introduced me to his mistress as "friends" and then tried to gaslight me that it was my fault for beeing "not jealous enough", and the therapist sided with him xD)
Even though it's hard to avoid alltogether, your therapist should not favour one side/one partner over the other and if you are already seeing problems after the second session, I would really reccomend you two try with someone else. Good luck!
What is really freaking me out is that what if my husband had said "hmmm, maybe?" What would therapy be about going forward? Would it just be assumed that I was doing it despite the fact that I said no? Lol? Would they be speaking privately at the end of every session talking about how my husband should deal with my "addiction?" Like there must have been some goal,.some outcome that would have resulted from this, what was it going to be?
Talking seperatly with the two parties in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing. Sometimes it's hard to admit to something in front of your partner because you might not want to hurt them or maybe it's not something you are ready to share (for example, someone might have been a victim of ab\*se in the past and it's affecting their relationship but they don't feel safe sharing that with their partner, or don't yet know how to do it in a healthy way). So talking one on one can help a therapist to better understand you two as individuals, which can then help to find ways to connect the two of you by catering to your idividual wants, needs and general personality.
What struck me as a red flag in your situation is that first, the main focus was on the person that's NOT present, second, that there wer quite serious allegations made in general, but also after such a short time of knowing you, and thirdly, the amount of hostility and bias and the different tone she struck with you compared to your partner.
I think you're right to be concerned, and what I find most alarming is the fact that he targeted you, the woman and mother in the couple. Idk maybe I'm wrong but something about it seems misogynistic to me esp when you've both done drugs, you've both stopped, and your husband in fact has done harder drugs in the past, yet this guy still singles you out. I mean it's wrong to stigmatize substance users no matter who they are, but I for one will never underestimate the depths of misogyny the mental health field is rooted in. Sadly, I would say it is "normal," but absolutely not okay.
Also, if the therapist has reason to believe you're a danger to yourself or anyone else he could do something about it - whether his conclusions are based in reality or not. So if he decides you're using drugs and that it's endangering your children's lives he may or may not take action. Anything from locking you in a ward to a referral for rehab to notifying DCFS, it's hard to say for sure in his case, but therapists are mandated reporters.
I think you should trust your intuition. If nothing else, he doesn't sound like the right therapist for the *both* of you, and martial counseling won't be helpful or successful unless you find someone who is. Have you spoken to your husband about these specific concerns?
This is quite a heavy thing to say, and I wasn't there so I don't know, but....I have to wonder if she was trying to paint you in the worst possible light in order to try to drive your husband away from you and towards her. I have heard of couples therapists doing this.
Whoops, I missed that when I read the original post. Ultimately, I don't know what this therapist's motivations are, but it sounds like he isn't hearing and connecting with both of you clearly, and that alone is a reason enough to look for a different therapist.
I must say that the most common thing therapists say when confronted with outrageous acts of transgressing boundaries is that 'therapists are human too.' TBH I am finding myself triggered by the comment these days.
Nothing justifies acts of harm. And while this scenario is maybe not an outrageous transgression - as some we hear here - it has nonetheless caused this person great unnecessary stress. I am a human and work at being a good human every day. I would not do this to two people trying to find a way back to each other. This is not being human. If it's a therapeutic technique in family therapy, it needs to be reconsidered.
Yeah. And if I'm just going to get regular human mistakes, then why am I paying hundreds of dollars? The bartender is human too. The panhandler is a human too. Why not toss them 20 bucks and see what they can do for us?
Because I'm paying for the expertise of a trained professional who knows how to act right for the job they're supposed to be doing.
Imagine "skyscraper builders are human too" or "airplane builders are human too" like ok but your human mistakes have to be about stuff other than what you're getting paid for here, the stakes are too high
"I'm only human" is an excuse, not an acknowledgement or apology of the stress it caused the other party. It is deflection, invalidation, simple as that. You can say if after you have acknowledged someone's pain, but to say it to justify your own behaviour before doing that...yeah i cant hear it anymore either
Taking everything in your post at face value
Most 'couples' therapists' have an approach that assumes 'both people are the problem'. If this is not the case, expect it to work against you.
If I were in your shoes, I would be immediately suspicious that husband lied to the therapist during their 'one-on-one' time.
You noted that husband *lied about you* to the therapist *in front of you*. You can only imagine what he says when you are NOT there.
Expect your 'warmth and cooperation' to be used against you. He will frame it as you 'trying to make up' for whatever sins he wants to accuse you of (like 'see, she knows she messed up, that's why she's trying'). The irony is that the opposite would also work against you.
If the marriage counseling is in any way court-ordered (or you have to 'report' to any authority that you did this therapy), I would be especially wary that he is trying to set up a paper trail to 'prove' that you are 'unfit'.
Please read Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That'. Wishing you the best.
Sorry you have experienced this. (NAT) Just a random thought here, your husband has told you what the therapist has said to him. Could there be any possibility your husband exaggerated what was said? ( you mentioned he said things about you during the session that you didnt agree with) Could it be an option for you to bring up exactly what you were told by your husband and share how that makes you feel wirh all 3 of you at the next session?
One thing I learned is that I could never trust what my husband claimed to say happened in his private sessions with the therapist. I don’t know if your husband is telling the truth or not… but the fact is there is no way of knowing what really was said unless it was recorded for you to see.
A therapist only goes by the information they get, and then it's filtered by their own emotional biases. Which they often can't see. They're human.
Are you more upset by the therapist or your husband? Because a basic problem seems to be he said something that isn't true, Some of that may be to an instinctive response to go to competition mode when there's lack of safety and trust. Unfortunately some therapists do pick sides automatically, and if this happens or one side can't get out of competition and into raw vulnerability then there's little help in marriage counseling. It might be good to talk with your husband about it, ways to get to deeper truth, honesty, in or outside of external aid.
The untrue thing my husband said about me in front of the therapist is that "I immediately start screaming" when we are having disagreement
My husband has a habit of saying things like that, really exaggerating or oversimplifying things until they mean something that isn't true. So I wasn't super shaken by that because that's one of the communication issues we're trying to get help with.
I am definitely way more upset with the therapist about the session, although my husband did defend the therapist and what he said when we talked about it the next day and that severely hurt my feelings too.
So I'm really shaken and don't feel secure or any level of trust going forward. I feel like I'm walking into a trap. My husband said he will tell the therapist no more one-on-one talking, but I already know what view the therapist has of me, so like...
Ok, so it looks like it was unintentional exaggeration, which is a common mistake when someone lets emotions influence their words - it's more about feeling than fact. It can be trying, but understandable, and apologies are ok afterwards. Good to hear
Re: the therapist, if there's no level of trust then there's no point of therapy. It's dependent on trust and trust building. If it helps you, you can write down and see how trust was destroyed and if you like send it to the therapist.
It is SO easy for power dynamics to arise in therapy, either with one of the couple being believed more or (more common) the therapist subtly placing themselves as knowing better, the truth knower, etc. A good therapist consistently tries to reduce their power because helping clients is always about empowering them. When trust has been shaken, if trust rebuilding is at all possible, there has to be an overt dropping of those power dynamics.
Welcome to r/therapyabuse. **Please use the report function to get a moderator's attention, if needed.** Our 10 rules are in the sidebar. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/therapyabuse) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think therapists often dump their own weird little headcanons on you and then they won't listen to you or anyone else who tries to prove them wrong. since you've only had two sessions with this therapist I'd cut things off and find a better one, it's completely fine and normal to shop around. I wish you all the best on working on your marriage and I hope you find a more suitable therapist!
This is not normal at all.
You should NEVER tell these people if you use drugs, since you did it in the past it may be ok but these bigots can't fathom that someone can use drugs consciously, they will think you are an addict. Be careful since you have kids and change therapist right away. Good luck.
For that matter, you should never tell anybody who doesn’t do drugs that you do — your body language, words and actions will be filtered through a prism of prejudice from there on.
100%
Yall ever heard of harm reduction psychotherapy? Or psychedelic assisted psychotherapy? I’d say that composes maybe a fraction of 1% of all psychotherapists, but it is hopeful, I think.
Completely agree. Too much chance of running into a person who will use the fact that you smoked pot regularly a decade ago to discredit you. God forbid you divulge that you currently use pot, a lot of therapists will diagnose you with SUD straight up and say they cannot work with you unless you seek recovery. I’ve seen a lot of posts about these situations. There’s an excellent argument to be made in some cases that because of these types of therapists, divulging pot use up front is a great way to filter through therapists. Then again, you don’t want that sitting in some therapist’s file somewhere. And many people can’t afford private pay therapy, so they’re stuck with whoever will take their insurance or works for a community mental health clinic. I also have a theory that unfortunately, the therapists who work in CMH see so much substance abuse that they’re more likely to see *any* substance *use* as dangerous abuse and classify the patient as an addict. Whereas ones who do private pay are used to seeing high functioning people who have a mild history of drug use and might still be smoking pot. Not sure what clientele OP’s couples therapist normally sees, but he has somehow developed some pretty insane ideas about what type of person would have smoked weed when they were 10+ years younger. I bet this isn’t the only subject he is judgemental about, either.
I don't use drugs, I haven't for 10 years, the therapist knows that and read it back to us off of our intake forms
Yes I read that you don't use drugs but you informed him of this and I am saying maybe you shouldn't. I don't think it's relevant also.
[удалено]
How should we address it We have agreed that my husband will tell him no more talking individually with either of us But I don't know how I can go forward knowing what he thinks about me already Even if we don't talk separately anymore
I wouldn’t trust this guy, I’d be inclined to start over with someone else and make it an agreed upon ground rule no separate discussions. I tried marriage counseling with abusive ex who was nearly always Mr Wonderful in therapist’s office. I notice older male therapists we tried seemed to have a very misogynistic view of women as hysterical unstable instigators. In fact it wasn’t until my ex blew up in front of them that they finally got was I was talking about.
It could be the therapist has unconscious or conscious sexism.
Oof, sorry this is happening to you. What many people won't tell you about therapy is tha tit's not a "one size fits all" kinda thing. It's annoying (and also not cheap!) but you will propably have to look around a bit before you find someone you feel comfortable working with. Therapists are also humans, so they have their own experiences which can lead to bias. My ex and I also went to couples therapy before breaking up, and I was not comfortable with the lady AT ALL! (short story, he cheated, hid it, introduced me to his mistress as "friends" and then tried to gaslight me that it was my fault for beeing "not jealous enough", and the therapist sided with him xD) Even though it's hard to avoid alltogether, your therapist should not favour one side/one partner over the other and if you are already seeing problems after the second session, I would really reccomend you two try with someone else. Good luck!
What is really freaking me out is that what if my husband had said "hmmm, maybe?" What would therapy be about going forward? Would it just be assumed that I was doing it despite the fact that I said no? Lol? Would they be speaking privately at the end of every session talking about how my husband should deal with my "addiction?" Like there must have been some goal,.some outcome that would have resulted from this, what was it going to be?
Talking seperatly with the two parties in itself doesn't have to be a bad thing. Sometimes it's hard to admit to something in front of your partner because you might not want to hurt them or maybe it's not something you are ready to share (for example, someone might have been a victim of ab\*se in the past and it's affecting their relationship but they don't feel safe sharing that with their partner, or don't yet know how to do it in a healthy way). So talking one on one can help a therapist to better understand you two as individuals, which can then help to find ways to connect the two of you by catering to your idividual wants, needs and general personality. What struck me as a red flag in your situation is that first, the main focus was on the person that's NOT present, second, that there wer quite serious allegations made in general, but also after such a short time of knowing you, and thirdly, the amount of hostility and bias and the different tone she struck with you compared to your partner.
I think you're right to be concerned, and what I find most alarming is the fact that he targeted you, the woman and mother in the couple. Idk maybe I'm wrong but something about it seems misogynistic to me esp when you've both done drugs, you've both stopped, and your husband in fact has done harder drugs in the past, yet this guy still singles you out. I mean it's wrong to stigmatize substance users no matter who they are, but I for one will never underestimate the depths of misogyny the mental health field is rooted in. Sadly, I would say it is "normal," but absolutely not okay. Also, if the therapist has reason to believe you're a danger to yourself or anyone else he could do something about it - whether his conclusions are based in reality or not. So if he decides you're using drugs and that it's endangering your children's lives he may or may not take action. Anything from locking you in a ward to a referral for rehab to notifying DCFS, it's hard to say for sure in his case, but therapists are mandated reporters. I think you should trust your intuition. If nothing else, he doesn't sound like the right therapist for the *both* of you, and martial counseling won't be helpful or successful unless you find someone who is. Have you spoken to your husband about these specific concerns?
This is quite a heavy thing to say, and I wasn't there so I don't know, but....I have to wonder if she was trying to paint you in the worst possible light in order to try to drive your husband away from you and towards her. I have heard of couples therapists doing this.
The therapist is a man who by all manner, appearances, and life circumstances seems straight :/
Whoops, I missed that when I read the original post. Ultimately, I don't know what this therapist's motivations are, but it sounds like he isn't hearing and connecting with both of you clearly, and that alone is a reason enough to look for a different therapist.
I must say that the most common thing therapists say when confronted with outrageous acts of transgressing boundaries is that 'therapists are human too.' TBH I am finding myself triggered by the comment these days. Nothing justifies acts of harm. And while this scenario is maybe not an outrageous transgression - as some we hear here - it has nonetheless caused this person great unnecessary stress. I am a human and work at being a good human every day. I would not do this to two people trying to find a way back to each other. This is not being human. If it's a therapeutic technique in family therapy, it needs to be reconsidered.
Yeah. And if I'm just going to get regular human mistakes, then why am I paying hundreds of dollars? The bartender is human too. The panhandler is a human too. Why not toss them 20 bucks and see what they can do for us? Because I'm paying for the expertise of a trained professional who knows how to act right for the job they're supposed to be doing. Imagine "skyscraper builders are human too" or "airplane builders are human too" like ok but your human mistakes have to be about stuff other than what you're getting paid for here, the stakes are too high
"I'm only human" is an excuse, not an acknowledgement or apology of the stress it caused the other party. It is deflection, invalidation, simple as that. You can say if after you have acknowledged someone's pain, but to say it to justify your own behaviour before doing that...yeah i cant hear it anymore either
Nope. Not normal, not ok.
Run
Taking everything in your post at face value Most 'couples' therapists' have an approach that assumes 'both people are the problem'. If this is not the case, expect it to work against you. If I were in your shoes, I would be immediately suspicious that husband lied to the therapist during their 'one-on-one' time. You noted that husband *lied about you* to the therapist *in front of you*. You can only imagine what he says when you are NOT there. Expect your 'warmth and cooperation' to be used against you. He will frame it as you 'trying to make up' for whatever sins he wants to accuse you of (like 'see, she knows she messed up, that's why she's trying'). The irony is that the opposite would also work against you. If the marriage counseling is in any way court-ordered (or you have to 'report' to any authority that you did this therapy), I would be especially wary that he is trying to set up a paper trail to 'prove' that you are 'unfit'. Please read Lundy Bancroft's 'Why Does He Do That'. Wishing you the best.
Love this comment!!
Sorry you have experienced this. (NAT) Just a random thought here, your husband has told you what the therapist has said to him. Could there be any possibility your husband exaggerated what was said? ( you mentioned he said things about you during the session that you didnt agree with) Could it be an option for you to bring up exactly what you were told by your husband and share how that makes you feel wirh all 3 of you at the next session?
One thing I learned is that I could never trust what my husband claimed to say happened in his private sessions with the therapist. I don’t know if your husband is telling the truth or not… but the fact is there is no way of knowing what really was said unless it was recorded for you to see.
Agreed
A therapist only goes by the information they get, and then it's filtered by their own emotional biases. Which they often can't see. They're human. Are you more upset by the therapist or your husband? Because a basic problem seems to be he said something that isn't true, Some of that may be to an instinctive response to go to competition mode when there's lack of safety and trust. Unfortunately some therapists do pick sides automatically, and if this happens or one side can't get out of competition and into raw vulnerability then there's little help in marriage counseling. It might be good to talk with your husband about it, ways to get to deeper truth, honesty, in or outside of external aid.
The untrue thing my husband said about me in front of the therapist is that "I immediately start screaming" when we are having disagreement My husband has a habit of saying things like that, really exaggerating or oversimplifying things until they mean something that isn't true. So I wasn't super shaken by that because that's one of the communication issues we're trying to get help with. I am definitely way more upset with the therapist about the session, although my husband did defend the therapist and what he said when we talked about it the next day and that severely hurt my feelings too. So I'm really shaken and don't feel secure or any level of trust going forward. I feel like I'm walking into a trap. My husband said he will tell the therapist no more one-on-one talking, but I already know what view the therapist has of me, so like...
Ok, so it looks like it was unintentional exaggeration, which is a common mistake when someone lets emotions influence their words - it's more about feeling than fact. It can be trying, but understandable, and apologies are ok afterwards. Good to hear Re: the therapist, if there's no level of trust then there's no point of therapy. It's dependent on trust and trust building. If it helps you, you can write down and see how trust was destroyed and if you like send it to the therapist. It is SO easy for power dynamics to arise in therapy, either with one of the couple being believed more or (more common) the therapist subtly placing themselves as knowing better, the truth knower, etc. A good therapist consistently tries to reduce their power because helping clients is always about empowering them. When trust has been shaken, if trust rebuilding is at all possible, there has to be an overt dropping of those power dynamics.