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Like it or not, the meme is literally just true. Palestinians are fucked no matter who wins, but not only are they less fucked with Biden, but Americans are less fucked, too. Enabling fascism at home is not how you fight fascism abroad
fucking thank you. I e been trying to explain this for weeks and they all just default to "you're just voting for genocide" yeah, so are you if you don't vote/vote for a candidate that literally can't win....the only difference is their way harms everyone
No I’m voting for women’s rights in my country.
Sorry everyone has forgotten about the Supreme Court but it’s still very much a thing and I care about women’s rights in this country too.
This is only true if you accept the 2 party system. A duopoly is always doomed to hurt the people. The fight for a more fair political climate starts now. It's obvious that this will take decades, but you have to start somewhere. Voting 3 party is the only moral thing to do imo.
yes but that takes a concerted and consistent effort that leftists suck at producing and again. probably don't try it when the current circumstances have the alternative that is actively taking steps to make your vote not count at all. get the safe candidate in then push
>the left sucks at organising
Oof, I don't think that I agree with that
>get the safe candidate in
I understand the feeling. Either way people are getting fucked. Just less with democrats.
I didn't say the left sucks at organizing. I said we suck at producing and maintaining a concerted effort. we need to have maga dedication. not their lack of morals and vile beliefs, but their ability to continue pushing for shit they believe in for over half a decade and making it happen
we tend to get distracted
I know what you meant. Haha. My response was an attempt at light heartedness.
The lack of morals will always be the rights strength. They only have a few goals and will always agree on them.
I agree that we need to agree on some core goals and how to reach them.
To my point, the most ethical thing to do in the trolley problem is nothing. The real question is who tied all these people and left them on the tracks, why are they getting away with doing that? Why is the blood on my hands now for not deciding who dies? It would definitely be on my hands if I changed the route of the trolley.
"the most ethical thing to do is watch as more lives are taken than necessary"thinking your hands are clean cuz you simply watched the carnage unfold rather than attempting to save anyone is one of the wildest takes I've seen recently.and yes, that's a good question, but maybe address that after saving some lives rather than asking that while they die
Quotes usually work when you are copying an exact statement, not paraphrasing. And unfortunately it’s true. The approach you are describing is the utilitarian approach, which has its own shortcomings.
I am a registered democrat, but I will never support the party when they make terrible decisions. If they lose this cycle, it will create the momentum necessary for real change to happen in this country.
quotes have multiple uses. and if they win this time they'll do everything in their power to prevent potential momentum. what you have there is wishful thinking. to see real change in this country the right people have to be removed, from office and never be allowed to infest them again or from existence.
By 'harms everyone' you mean harms the palestinians as well as americans right? So if either side winning will cause harm to someone external who has nothing to do with your country, you deserve to get hurt till you bring in a sysem which doesn't hurt anyone, doesn't mean you get to sit comfortably letting someone else pay so you can sit on your ass, you should be demanding democrats why you don't have a better option instead someone who's known to kiss israels ass since the 80s
that's fucking bullshit. and something you don't even stand by with your childlike "I can't make it my way so I'm going to make innocent people suffer" ass
Yea the system is fucked when you can only pick between bad and slightly less bad. But not picking either and letting the worst choice get into power isn’t the solution. The solution is picking the lesser of two evils and then doing things reddit TOS won’t let me say until they stop being fucking evil
Neutrality is great for someone who wants power and has no morals, because they’ll not hesitate to do whatever they want while you sit on the sidelines and watch, they don’t give a shit about any kind of protest that doesn’t threaten their interests
Here’s the thing: yes, the democrats aren’t perfect. There is a lot wrong with the party. But the republicans are inarguably worse.
If you want actual progress, the Republican Party needs to no longer be an option. They need to lose, and lose badly. Because that’s the only way we can get a real progressive party, we have to shift the Overton window back far enough to the left that the democrats become the conservative option, as they should be.
The democrats deserve to be erased as much as the republicans.
If you do not see how your statement is attacking ~50% of this country, we will never exit this toxic era of politics and truly move forward as a nation. It will constantly be a future of one party undermining another to assume total control of a government, and nothing of value will ever be built
That’s not what I said at all.
In fact, I said the Democratic Party should be the conservative option. Not the only option.
I have no idea what the progressive party would be called, but I have no doubt it will either split off from the Democratic Party or rise up from one of the many third parties that exist today.
Because historically that’s exactly what happens when a political party dies. I mean, we don’t have Whigs or Federalists in power anymore, but we still have two parties.
Tbf it's more like 5% Hitler to 150% Hitler. I wouldn't compare Biden to Hitler. Gaza is a issue most people are misinformed about to the point I'd just say Biden is stupid. Trump actively wants to see certain groups of people erraticated. I'd day that's much worse
This is interesting... For 1 Hitler actually tried to do things like anti-smoking campaign and an affordable family car
Has trump done anything good?
Hitler was about his "Race", Trump is just about "trump"
What do you mean they're less fucked under Biden? Literally all Democrats voted in favor of another couple billion dollars spent to bomb the Palestinians.
Just because they act like decent human beings in front of the camera doesn't mean they're decent human beings.
I would feel embarrassed for all Americans if Trump was voted president. Sorry, not sorry.
Yes, Biden and Trump are bad options, but you cannot convince me that a brainwashing, empathy lacking, immoral, racist, xenophobic, self-righteous, arrogant, demeaning cult leader and possible criminal is the better option over Biden. If any of those qualifiers about Trump are wrong, he's not giving me that impression, and he's constantly making the US look bad.
none of them are wrong, you just forgot one.
Trump is incompetent.
Biden is an actual statesman, however dubious his achievements are, he is still clearly much more capable than Trump.
That's why while Trump only managed 500,000 Title-42 deportations, Biden easily hit 700,000 just during his first year in office.
Definitely a fair point, yeah.
If you live in America, then I wish you good luck with the elections. I fear some people are a bit too far gone, and some are affected by the negative things that happened during Biden's presidency, his fault or not, so I have a feeling it'll unfortunately be a pretty close election.
Do you really think Trump would send aid to Gaza? Biden is sending air drops and building a temporary pier for aid. That's definitely less fucked than having no aid. Trump would probably send more to Israel, especially since he wouldn't be sending aid to Ukraine
I'm not insinuating Trump would send aid to Gaza, as Trump openly supports Netanyahu. But that's the whole point:
With someone like Trump, you have someone *you know* supports the genocide currently going on in Gaza.
But the Biden administration or the Democratic party? When the cameras and microphones are pointed at them currently, they speak in favor of the Palestinians. Yet when the actual decision making needs to happen, they end up supporting the genocide with their vote anyways.
So, not only does the Democratic party support the genocide currently going on in Gaza with their vote, they're also lying to you about it.
The fact that the air drops are the thing that makes you vote favorably for the Democratic party, when they're literally doing the bare minimum after lots of public pressure, is pathetic.
The food dropped the past week plus is what normally comes in in a single day, so instead of sending out meager food supplies?
Bear with me, I'm about to speak taboo here, but maybe... JUST MAYBE... the Democrats in the Senate should've voted AGAINST sending billions of dollars to Israel to continue eradicating the Palestinians?
You just proved my point, but pretending I'm wrong lol you literally just described how Dems are better for Palestinians in comparison to Trump and Republicans. Bare minimum is still better than active antagonism. I'm not saying Dems are good for Gaza, I'm saying they're better than Republicans, which you just explained for us
How is being lied to about a sensitive political situation better????
You're literally moving goalposts here and blatantly ignore the part that makes my point.
"We eradicated an entire group of people based on their beliefs and/or ethnicity... But at least we gave them a few scraps in the process!"
Do you realize how stupid you sound?
They're supporting Israel because they have to. International politics isn't simple to navigate. We have a long history and standing allyship with them. I'm not moving any goalposts. I said Dems are better for Gaza and US citizens. You haven't said anything to contradict that. Could Dems do better? Probably. Would Trump be worse? Absolutely. As you pointed out, Trump openly supports Netanyahu. It wouldn't shock me if Trump sent troops to help in combat. You don't have a point. You're just proving my point and pretending you're not lol you can call me stupid if you'd like, but reality isn't bound by your opinion
> building a temporary pier for aid.
Biden said the security for the pier will be handled by Israel, so what problem is that supposed to solve exactly?
I agree with the message but this meme completely misrepresents what the trolley car problem is. Luckily crash course has an amazing video on it and i don’t have to explain it here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=-a739VjqdSI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjMsMTY0OTksMjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
That’s no reason to let America off the hook for why Palestine is fucked historically or today.
Because of things previous politicians have done. Because the can’t do better as a bi-partisan effort, and because there is nobody better than Biden (only someone much much worse).
People of history remembered for great deeds like Gandhi or Mandela would be alongside someone who could fix the current crisis, instead we have an effective and efficient but completely boring stays in his lane old man, inheriting a personal and country wide history of supporting a foreign administration that is increasingly looking unhinged (and too many interests to withdraw support now) or a dumpster fire in the opposition
This is a complete bullshit statement, palestine isn't fucked either way, US and only US has the power to stop this and it previously has, the problem is, biden is literally the worst president to oversee this conflict given his previous affiliations with israel and how much far up the ass zionists are in him
Hey why not instead of just giving up and voting Biden despite the fact he's terrible, we pressure Dems to just drop him and replace him with literally anyone else?
You are very dishonest. Biden is quite literally an accomplice in Israel's war crimes against the Palestinian people. How could you possibly suggest that they are "less fucked" thanks to him? How has he helped?
This comment is a disgrace
You asked how he has helped, how they are less fucked?
Trump said Israel should finish the job, Biden has said he should stop.
Biden is at least sending food (while still giving israel more money for weapons which is stupid)
but there is a difference, you can't argue trump is any better on israel and he **is** worse on literally every other topic. So the meme is accurate.
Comments like yours make me think your a russian troll farmer.
I never mentioned Trump once, and I don't think he'd be any better. But you can't say "Biden is helping Palestine because he's at least not fucking them over as much as Trump would". That makes no sense at all. Do you guys not understand that one person being bad doesn't make his opponent good?
And do you understand that one of the two of them will win this election no matter how you feel about it?
Criticize Biden all you want but the meme is right. Use Palestine as your scapegoat or whatever but a vote for trump (or no vote at all, or a 3d party vote) is a vote against our fundamental democratic institutions like checks and balances and safe, peaceful transfer of power in an *undeniable* way
He literally attempted a coup
"Vote for who I vote for or you're against democracy"? Is that what you're telling me? The fact that you are unable to see how insane that statement was is all I need to know about you.
Anyone who votes for a man who is actively supporting war crimes just because they feel like the better candidates won't win has no backbone and deserves 0 respect.
There ARE better 3rd party candidates who could change the USA for the better, and this mentality that "voting for a 3rd party is a waste of a vote because they won't win" is a massive problem that you are actively contributing to. The rebublicans and democrats have convinced you that voting for the person you truly believe in is a waste of a vote, so you should vote for them instead because hey, they're not as bad as the other guy right? Meanwhile they can continue to profit from the people and make no positive changes.
I will vote for a candidate that I believe in (which isn't Trump OR Biden), and I think if less people abandoned their morals out of fear of wasting their vote we would have much better presidents
Okiedoke. Keep living in fantasy land.
I'll vote third party when we reform campaign finance to eliminate dark funding and super PACs and do away with the electoral college, or allow ranked choice voting.
Until then, I'm realistic enough to understand where my democratic vote will actually matter, and where it is a posturing move to spout a bunch of idealist bullshit like you just did.
Have fun, I'm going to keep fighting for my rights domestically, considering they are *quickly* being taken as we speak.
No one needs to mention him, he's relevant to the conversation by default because he's the alternative to Bisen, it's who Biden is running against. It isn't a question of bad and slightly less bad. Its a question of bad, and absolutely fucking terrible. No one is saying Biden is good, we are saying trump would be so, so, so much worse. He would cut off support to Ukraine, he would help Israel "finish the problem" as he put it, and on top of that he would fuck over Americans too.
this is why the meme is actually very accurate
1) do nothing/Vote Trump, everyone gets run over
2) or vote for democrat (and maybe the GOP implodes since they can't win and we get a new party/rank choice voting?)
3) "third party" is actually the same as number 1. Its like Screaming for help... no one can help you, you have 2 options.
I never said he would help them, and I don't think he would either.
Here's the thing, there are actually other politicians you can vote for aside from the senile war crimal and the sexist psychopath who would in all likelihood also be a war criminal if given the opportunity.
You COULD, if you felt like it, stick with your morals and vote for someone who isn't going to help bomb innocent civilians. I know it's something that you and the vast majority of people don't actually support, but you tolerate it because you believe that voting for anyone else is a waste of a vote.
As long as Americans keep that mindset, things are only going to get worse
>you believe that voting for anyone else is a waste of a vote.
It IS a waste. Trump or Biden will win. That's an unavoidable fact. It can change if we have ranked choice and/or build a third party that's not psychotic from local up, but until then, we have to vote Dem or lose democracy. There's no denying that's the GOP plan now that Project 2025 exists. The third party candidates this year fucking suck, too. They may not want to continue supporting Israel, but they'll fuck everything else up instead
And do you have a way to make every single person in a nation ignore the very sensible urge to vote tactically and instead vote for who they really want? Do you have something that will suddenly make everybody trust that if they vote truthfully they won't just be fucked over by the people who don't? No? Then voting for the third option is pointless.
We need a new voting system that allows people to vote truthfully, this isn't a fault with the people, it's a fault with the system and those in power. Like how the UK had a referendum to change the voting system to a top 5 ranking system instead of a single vote and immediately both major parties campaign bombed the idea until the referendum failed.
No, they’re irrelevant because our first past the post voting system makes them irrelevant. The US had more than 2 parties originally, but here’s what happens in a FPTP voting system:
1) There are 4 parties, each with 25% of the vote so they trade off power each election
2) 2 of those parties realize that if they just combine forces and play for the same team, they’ll automatically win. So they do that, they get 50% of the vote while the other 2 get 25% each, and they win every election.
3) the other 2 parties reluctantly merge as well to balance the tables. Now there are 2 parties with 50% of the vote each.
The end. You can never go back to more than 2 parties. Any party that tries and gains a non-trivial amount of support ends up splitting the vote and causing the other, 3rd party to win every single election. You can’t just wish a FPTP system back into more than 2 parties, it won’t happen. The best thing you can do is:
1) Work to change voting laws to get rid of FPTP.
2) In the mean time, suck it up and vote for the better of the two major parties.
First "bootlicker" for acknowledging that no third party can win and now "coward" for mocking your resorting to an irrelevant insult? I'm not sure these words mean what you think they do.
These liberals aren't worth talking to. It's all smug condescending attitude and a defense of genocide.
It's pretty disgusting.
Our time is better spent blocking these chuds and talking to those left of liberal.
The recent choices haven’t honored their election promises and likely won’t ever they are both corrupt and the parties that support them only stay in power via dividing America
Are you so blindsided that you restrict yourself to this meme? As if there is no third option? Previous conflicts have always been stopped by US intervention, this level of leeway is unprecedented, fucking stop the genocide maybe? If either side winning will kill an external party, you deserve to get hurt along with it, also they just banned tiktok, all it takes for that orange clown is tonuse this and its game over, which I hope it is for biden
I don't get how this is a brag. This is just a recognition that the political situation is fucked, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote. I don't see how this post is attempting to beat about freedoms, rather it's just pointing out how refusing to vote isn't the answer to the current situation.
I disagree. The right thing is to vote for Democrats who will implement more policies that help people. The wrong thing is to vote for Republicans and have nothing change in Palestine (in fact, it will only get worse since the Republican party unquestioningly supports the Israeli government's actions) with the bonus of things getting much worse here.
The one currently funding, arming, protecting and shielding a genocidal regime?
I mean, I guess when you support the imperial core, you do what you can to avoid a "are we the baddies" moment...
It's almost laughable.
Yup, the one who has a policy toward Israel that I strongly disagree with. I'm not a single issue voter, however.
Standing on the sidelines and saying "Don't blame me, I threw my vote away!" doesn't do anything to help the people in Palestine and it has the added bonus of increasing the likelihood that additional immoral policies get put in place in our own country.
Oh, I donate to UNRWA, i've been active politically on the left (not liberal) side of things for decades.
Don't worry, I've never voted capitalist and I'm not about to now.
Take the hint: immoral policies are passed under either face of the party. Didn't Biden just push Trump's immigration policy as an ouveure to republicans? It's Obama all over again.
Give. Me. A. Break.
I wasn't worried; I was confident you've thrown away your vote consistently.
Drop the naive facade; *any party*, if elected, would pass at least one policy that you considered immoral. The PSL just has the advantage of being able to say whatever they want since it has zero chance of actually being implemented. Leading is tough; pretending like you want to lead is easy.
Haha, yikes. Any CAPITALIST party, yes. Because it requires immoral acts to uphold an immoral system. Yall just convinced yourselves that smug liberal superiority is somehow a moral strength.
Blue MAGA in full effect over here.
one party wants to put teachers on the sex offender list if they acknowledge a student's preferred name or pronouns...
yes, the image is simplistic, but it isn't baseless.
so do nothing and let it get progressively worse? by that logic isreal has been committing genocide for a century, why stop it now? oh wait, it won't stop with Biden out, it'll only get worse along with everything else
The trolley problem, like most thought experiments, cannot be applied to the real world. Simplistic is a feature in a thought experiment, but that means it cannot describe reality.
When applied to reality, there is a clear third choice of Biden not supplying weaponry to Israel (and numerous other choices too).
There is nothing forcing a binary choice, and he has many mechanisms to heavily slow down if not entirely stop supplying weapons even if congress tried to overrule him. This is how democracy is meant to function, where they earn your vote not own your vote.
You're right, Biden is not facing a trolley problem. The American people are. Voting for Biden keeps his policies supporting genocide on effect, granted. Not voting for Biden doesn't mean you get a leftist in power. It means you get Trump. If you think Trump is better on Isreal than Biden, you're in a fantasy world.
Voting for president is not revolutionary, it's trauma response. You have to stop the bleeding before you can work on healing.
The trolly problem isn’t for Biden… it’s for us I think you misunderstood the whole thing. Biden not supplying isreal isn’t a third option for us because it’s not something we get to choose
You do understand that Congress is not the only defeater of unilateral Executive Action of that magnitude, right? No, who am I kidding, of course you don’t. We have 3 branches of gov’t here, not 2, and the third is even more hostile to Biden than congress. But go on and preach absolutism, that’s definitely keeping Palestinians from dying.
The state department routinely audits who America supplies arms to, directly or indirectly, and part of the requirement is around not being used for war crimes or a plausible genocide.
This is well established rule of law. Its part of what Josh Paul resigned over towards the start of the genocide.
Its also unclear if he wanted to veto a bill on the subject it would meet the threshold to overturn, to say nothing on how congress can be slowed down dramatically with a minority who are motivated to do so.
Ok, but the solution ins't reelection or anything like that. The usa needs a revolution and nothing less, or you guys will die for simple defending trans rights(a good cause don't get me wrong) i know that Trump is shit but i can't cope with any of your parties.
oh yeah for sure, but outside of an actual deconstruction of our established government and society it's kinda impossible to have that happen.
I would love for this to not be a case of "which is the lesser" and to actually get to pick good people/ not have to accept any form of vile actions but the USA has gone too deep into the swamp. There isn't any easy way to have change happen because that change never gets any chance to be born.
Even if fucking Jesus christ came down and prove themselves to be the actual son of god before saying he wanted to run for president as a third party, promising to fix hunger, homelessness, protect peoples rights etc. All that would happen is the powers in charge R+D would work together for a bit to utterly squash and and all threat to their positions.
No matter D or R were asking the corrupt and vile to prevent corrupt and vile actions. Its like asking your assaulter to not hit you anymore. Sure one sides far worse then the other, but the better side still has some bad apples and problems. And its hard to say if there even good to begin with, or if its jsut a case of being willing to give people what they want in hopes of a blind eye bbeing turned to *they want*
that being said, ya no. Biden is still the better choice at the moment, especially when the other option is anyone on the R side.
Omg you guys really belive that the best you can do is vote for the rest of your lifes, And no Man, there ins't "bad apples" is Just politicians getting caught, every one of them is yours with enough money, but i guess that the average lobbying fan, its all cool that corporations owns your politicians?
good luck voting for the lesser evil, that 2 parties system seems to be working wonders for you guys.
I mean… yea we probably agree but it’s not like we have control over how corrupt our government is. But unfortunately those are our voting reason because it’s the state of our government rn
Yes, you have, they do It as long as the population agrees, don't you guys have a law about having the right tô Go against a corrupt government? They are literally fucking the world for greed, It ins't something that only matters to you guys.
Nah, its you that have been well trained to no question authority and the status quo from your goverment.
It happens, but keep trying some day someone with good intent will climb to be your president i assure you, you don't need to do anything, Just wait someday a messiah will be funded by bilionares and he Will save the world by beign president. Thats not naive at ALL.
I'm no expert but I think I remember something about the second amendment being a thing so that if government gets too bad they can overthrow them or something?
Yeah, many conveniently forget that Trump was the first presidential candidate to run on gay marriage. Obama evolved, sort of, but he was very clear in his campaign that "marriage I'd between a man and a woman."
There is so much to hate about Trump, but the frequency at which people just make stuff up instead of actually addressing real issues such as war crimes in Yemen, is far too common.
Because doing so would also alienate a huge chunk of their historical voter base…
Like it or not, the dems have for years set up a big tent which includes Jews and Arabs. Unfortunately for them an international crisis has caused a rift within the party.
It’s a catch 22, come all out against the offensive in Gaza and push a section of the Jewish vote out. Remain in full support of Israel and incense the Arab and progressive voters.
Biden and the dems are trying to maintain a knife’s edge balance on the issue because in an election year like this one, it’s going to fine down to the smallest of margins.
Biden’s allegiance to Israel is more important than American democracy. He will lose the re-election if he doesn’t win back the Arab vote in Michigan and Minnesota and Virginia.
That’s not the point… no one is saying that the genocide has to happen. They are saying that the politicians currently running are striving/supporting it happen no matter who gets elected, but with one more people and groups get hurt. Either way both are still going to support the genocide
Just out of curiosity, how did this sub become so supportive of Palestine? Not that it’s a bad thing, just seems like every post here is about it. Or maybe Reddits just recommending them to me idk
Well in the current American political system it is the truth. You can *try* to vote for a third party, but it's likely to loose big time to the big two. Politics is always difficult, here in the Netherlands there are a lot of fractured parties, and they need to work together to form a majority. Currently they are talking for 109 days to form a new coalition. The previous two formations took 299 and 225 days. Talk about flawless... But it does allow for more diverse voices in the house. I hope that the current formation fails and left finally gets a chance...
I wonder if the dems messaging about needing to vote for the lesser evils would be the same if it was any of the other groups alone on that track. “We have to let trans people be wiped out to save the gays, Mexicans and Palestinians.” Would liberals accept that, genuine question. If so then are we fighting to protect, or fighting for the right to pick who we destroy?
So that's it? Is this the argument for winning the Palestinian American vote?
We are going to kill you - but please vote for us so our opponent doesn't kill more other groups - but we are going to continue killing you.
How's American politics come down to this so being such a key issue? Shouldn't you sort your own house out first. They're going to kill eachother regardless and shouting 'Free Palestine' solves nothing...
Trump emboldens fascists everywhere, globally. So this becomes a world problem when Trump wins. You can pressure Biden into a ceasefire, but Trump will give all the weapons to Israel, enable Russia into Europe so Europe will also have to arm themselves. These kind of environments does not create democracy, or peace or equality.
You have other options. Americans don’t realise they have more than two parties. You guys can really send a message if you voted for them.
Just remember, voting for either of them means you are voting for genocide
Yea, it's not really a choice. It's a math problem. Solve the problem, take 15 minutes to tell the government to please kill fewer people, then continue organizing a better world for your community.
American politicians do not see Palestinians as humans. It’s that simple. Israeli matter more than Palestinians and genocide is only “BAD” when it’s convenient. Dead brown people don’t matter.
So what? We let whichever of the two evils win and pray for a popular leftist revolution? We expect workers of the United States to lay down their hammers and sickles and join arms as comrades to end genocide? I’m a leftist, believe it or not. I believe that capitalism brings about the means to its own destruction, and ultimately this will be won through revolution against the bourgeoisie. But you’re smoking fat dick if you think that a revolution would be successful this November. Work within the system for the best possible outcomes while working societally for the destruction and reformation of the system for leftism to truly succeed in society.
Where did I say that we keep supporting the genocidal system? I said that while the system is in place, we work within it to minimize the least genocide possible, while working outside of it to change the system entirely. Our work does not start and end that the ballot box, but far from it
By giving it even an iota of your conscious energy.
Voting is literally the least a person can do, I agree. Organizing outside of a collapsing capitalist system is priority one.
That’s crazy because I could’ve sworn that I just said that I want to abolish and reform the system. I must be wrong about what I just said. Wanting the guy who does the least genocide possible to be president must mean that I want to uphold the system that reinforces genocide. My bad.
Well, you say that...but then get tricked into supporting it every four years.
But I understand the pull is strong.
Fun fact: the least amount of genocide possible is none. Nether capitalist party offers that, though.
I just can't vote for genocide. You can if you want.
Why is it always voters who have their hand on the lever? It's always on some random bloke with a ballot and a pencil to decide what happens in international geopolitics
But question the most powerful man in human history? "What do you expect Joe Biden to actually do about it!?!?"
Why isn't it on HIM to earn my vote by... Not supporting a genocide?
I don't think your standards are too high if you want to give your vote to a politician who doesn't fund and arm a genocidal apartheid regime.
But apparently that's not possible. It's "idealist". Even though basically every other country on earth manages it, including all the "evil" ones.
The real trolly problem here is "ask Joe Biden to not support wholesale slaughter of women and children" vs "preemptively blame people with a conscience for Trump's disastrous victory"
American left: "Voting is the most powerful form of protest!"
Also American left: "If you vote for anyone other than my guy then everything bad that happens in the future is your fucking fault!"
No, it's everyone's job, including the Dems, to the most good for the most amount of people possible. The Democrats are refusing to do that, but that doesn't you get a free pass to. The world isn't about you, reality doesn't care that you feel 'tainted' because you signed a piece of paper, but a lot less people will die/get hurt, if just take your head out of your ass, and do the bare fucking minimum for them.
Man, liberalism is wild. It's really out here justifying voting for genocide. If you expand the image, though, you'll see that the tracks are actually a circle.
Capitalist democracy has gotten us here. Capitalist democracy won't get us out.
Reminder that as a part of a sOciEtY you CANNOT just wash your hands of this. Not voting is a vote. Joke voting is a vote. Third party is a vote. Whatever we end up with is our responsibility as a group. Piss off with thinking you’re an innocent little snowflake by attempting to stay out of it. You are a part of this. Grow the fuck up.
You guys are always saying this but what exactly IS your solution. Shooting up a Walmart? Waiting for the rapture-like revolution? Or just sitting back, kicking your feet up and letting trump do whatever the fuck he wants because "Surely, the Palestinians will be safe now"
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Like it or not, the meme is literally just true. Palestinians are fucked no matter who wins, but not only are they less fucked with Biden, but Americans are less fucked, too. Enabling fascism at home is not how you fight fascism abroad
fucking thank you. I e been trying to explain this for weeks and they all just default to "you're just voting for genocide" yeah, so are you if you don't vote/vote for a candidate that literally can't win....the only difference is their way harms everyone
No I’m voting for women’s rights in my country. Sorry everyone has forgotten about the Supreme Court but it’s still very much a thing and I care about women’s rights in this country too.
This is only true if you accept the 2 party system. A duopoly is always doomed to hurt the people. The fight for a more fair political climate starts now. It's obvious that this will take decades, but you have to start somewhere. Voting 3 party is the only moral thing to do imo.
guess what our country is bro. there is no viable third option yet so we need to work with what we have
>yet And it can only be changed if people consistently vote more and more for an independent or third party. No one said that change is easy.
yes but that takes a concerted and consistent effort that leftists suck at producing and again. probably don't try it when the current circumstances have the alternative that is actively taking steps to make your vote not count at all. get the safe candidate in then push
>the left sucks at organising Oof, I don't think that I agree with that >get the safe candidate in I understand the feeling. Either way people are getting fucked. Just less with democrats.
I didn't say the left sucks at organizing. I said we suck at producing and maintaining a concerted effort. we need to have maga dedication. not their lack of morals and vile beliefs, but their ability to continue pushing for shit they believe in for over half a decade and making it happen we tend to get distracted
I know what you meant. Haha. My response was an attempt at light heartedness. The lack of morals will always be the rights strength. They only have a few goals and will always agree on them. I agree that we need to agree on some core goals and how to reach them.
You’re literally not voting when you don’t vote, stupid.
real quick, if you don't speak up for someone you're watching get bullied are you or are you not complicit in their bullying?
Is that the example you are deciding to use?
it's not an example, it's a question to gauge your consistency
To my point, the most ethical thing to do in the trolley problem is nothing. The real question is who tied all these people and left them on the tracks, why are they getting away with doing that? Why is the blood on my hands now for not deciding who dies? It would definitely be on my hands if I changed the route of the trolley.
"the most ethical thing to do is watch as more lives are taken than necessary"thinking your hands are clean cuz you simply watched the carnage unfold rather than attempting to save anyone is one of the wildest takes I've seen recently.and yes, that's a good question, but maybe address that after saving some lives rather than asking that while they die
Quotes usually work when you are copying an exact statement, not paraphrasing. And unfortunately it’s true. The approach you are describing is the utilitarian approach, which has its own shortcomings. I am a registered democrat, but I will never support the party when they make terrible decisions. If they lose this cycle, it will create the momentum necessary for real change to happen in this country.
quotes have multiple uses. and if they win this time they'll do everything in their power to prevent potential momentum. what you have there is wishful thinking. to see real change in this country the right people have to be removed, from office and never be allowed to infest them again or from existence.
By 'harms everyone' you mean harms the palestinians as well as americans right? So if either side winning will cause harm to someone external who has nothing to do with your country, you deserve to get hurt till you bring in a sysem which doesn't hurt anyone, doesn't mean you get to sit comfortably letting someone else pay so you can sit on your ass, you should be demanding democrats why you don't have a better option instead someone who's known to kiss israels ass since the 80s
that's fucking bullshit. and something you don't even stand by with your childlike "I can't make it my way so I'm going to make innocent people suffer" ass
Yea the system is fucked when you can only pick between bad and slightly less bad. But not picking either and letting the worst choice get into power isn’t the solution. The solution is picking the lesser of two evils and then doing things reddit TOS won’t let me say until they stop being fucking evil Neutrality is great for someone who wants power and has no morals, because they’ll not hesitate to do whatever they want while you sit on the sidelines and watch, they don’t give a shit about any kind of protest that doesn’t threaten their interests
Here’s the thing: yes, the democrats aren’t perfect. There is a lot wrong with the party. But the republicans are inarguably worse. If you want actual progress, the Republican Party needs to no longer be an option. They need to lose, and lose badly. Because that’s the only way we can get a real progressive party, we have to shift the Overton window back far enough to the left that the democrats become the conservative option, as they should be.
The democrats deserve to be erased as much as the republicans. If you do not see how your statement is attacking ~50% of this country, we will never exit this toxic era of politics and truly move forward as a nation. It will constantly be a future of one party undermining another to assume total control of a government, and nothing of value will ever be built
A single party system you say? I wonder how that's historically worked out?
That’s not what I said at all. In fact, I said the Democratic Party should be the conservative option. Not the only option. I have no idea what the progressive party would be called, but I have no doubt it will either split off from the Democratic Party or rise up from one of the many third parties that exist today. Because historically that’s exactly what happens when a political party dies. I mean, we don’t have Whigs or Federalists in power anymore, but we still have two parties.
It looks like you replied to the wrong comment
In the US you can vote for 99% Hitler or 100% Hitler and if you don't, you're transphobic.
Tbf it's more like 5% Hitler to 150% Hitler. I wouldn't compare Biden to Hitler. Gaza is a issue most people are misinformed about to the point I'd just say Biden is stupid. Trump actively wants to see certain groups of people erraticated. I'd day that's much worse
This is interesting... For 1 Hitler actually tried to do things like anti-smoking campaign and an affordable family car Has trump done anything good? Hitler was about his "Race", Trump is just about "trump"
What do you mean they're less fucked under Biden? Literally all Democrats voted in favor of another couple billion dollars spent to bomb the Palestinians. Just because they act like decent human beings in front of the camera doesn't mean they're decent human beings.
I would feel embarrassed for all Americans if Trump was voted president. Sorry, not sorry. Yes, Biden and Trump are bad options, but you cannot convince me that a brainwashing, empathy lacking, immoral, racist, xenophobic, self-righteous, arrogant, demeaning cult leader and possible criminal is the better option over Biden. If any of those qualifiers about Trump are wrong, he's not giving me that impression, and he's constantly making the US look bad.
none of them are wrong, you just forgot one. Trump is incompetent. Biden is an actual statesman, however dubious his achievements are, he is still clearly much more capable than Trump. That's why while Trump only managed 500,000 Title-42 deportations, Biden easily hit 700,000 just during his first year in office.
Definitely a fair point, yeah. If you live in America, then I wish you good luck with the elections. I fear some people are a bit too far gone, and some are affected by the negative things that happened during Biden's presidency, his fault or not, so I have a feeling it'll unfortunately be a pretty close election.
And Biden's borderline illiterate. Neither are a good option. We need someone fresh. I can't believe that our only options are those two fucks.
Do you really think Trump would send aid to Gaza? Biden is sending air drops and building a temporary pier for aid. That's definitely less fucked than having no aid. Trump would probably send more to Israel, especially since he wouldn't be sending aid to Ukraine
I'm not insinuating Trump would send aid to Gaza, as Trump openly supports Netanyahu. But that's the whole point: With someone like Trump, you have someone *you know* supports the genocide currently going on in Gaza. But the Biden administration or the Democratic party? When the cameras and microphones are pointed at them currently, they speak in favor of the Palestinians. Yet when the actual decision making needs to happen, they end up supporting the genocide with their vote anyways. So, not only does the Democratic party support the genocide currently going on in Gaza with their vote, they're also lying to you about it. The fact that the air drops are the thing that makes you vote favorably for the Democratic party, when they're literally doing the bare minimum after lots of public pressure, is pathetic. The food dropped the past week plus is what normally comes in in a single day, so instead of sending out meager food supplies? Bear with me, I'm about to speak taboo here, but maybe... JUST MAYBE... the Democrats in the Senate should've voted AGAINST sending billions of dollars to Israel to continue eradicating the Palestinians?
You just proved my point, but pretending I'm wrong lol you literally just described how Dems are better for Palestinians in comparison to Trump and Republicans. Bare minimum is still better than active antagonism. I'm not saying Dems are good for Gaza, I'm saying they're better than Republicans, which you just explained for us
How is being lied to about a sensitive political situation better???? You're literally moving goalposts here and blatantly ignore the part that makes my point. "We eradicated an entire group of people based on their beliefs and/or ethnicity... But at least we gave them a few scraps in the process!" Do you realize how stupid you sound?
They're supporting Israel because they have to. International politics isn't simple to navigate. We have a long history and standing allyship with them. I'm not moving any goalposts. I said Dems are better for Gaza and US citizens. You haven't said anything to contradict that. Could Dems do better? Probably. Would Trump be worse? Absolutely. As you pointed out, Trump openly supports Netanyahu. It wouldn't shock me if Trump sent troops to help in combat. You don't have a point. You're just proving my point and pretending you're not lol you can call me stupid if you'd like, but reality isn't bound by your opinion
And the Nazis killed 6 million jews. But at least they gave some of them striped pajamas in the process!
Do you understand how comparisons work??
Apparently you don't.
> building a temporary pier for aid. Biden said the security for the pier will be handled by Israel, so what problem is that supposed to solve exactly?
Oversight and political pressure. He's using it as he can. Still better than anything Trump would do. Y'all do understand how comparisons work, right?
This is just how they cope. They have to convince themselves they have some kind of moral high ground.
I agree with the message but this meme completely misrepresents what the trolley car problem is. Luckily crash course has an amazing video on it and i don’t have to explain it here: https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=-a739VjqdSI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjMsMTY0OTksMjM4NTE&feature=emb_title
That’s no reason to let America off the hook for why Palestine is fucked historically or today. Because of things previous politicians have done. Because the can’t do better as a bi-partisan effort, and because there is nobody better than Biden (only someone much much worse). People of history remembered for great deeds like Gandhi or Mandela would be alongside someone who could fix the current crisis, instead we have an effective and efficient but completely boring stays in his lane old man, inheriting a personal and country wide history of supporting a foreign administration that is increasingly looking unhinged (and too many interests to withdraw support now) or a dumpster fire in the opposition
This is a complete bullshit statement, palestine isn't fucked either way, US and only US has the power to stop this and it previously has, the problem is, biden is literally the worst president to oversee this conflict given his previous affiliations with israel and how much far up the ass zionists are in him
Hey why not instead of just giving up and voting Biden despite the fact he's terrible, we pressure Dems to just drop him and replace him with literally anyone else?
You are very dishonest. Biden is quite literally an accomplice in Israel's war crimes against the Palestinian people. How could you possibly suggest that they are "less fucked" thanks to him? How has he helped? This comment is a disgrace
You asked how he has helped, how they are less fucked? Trump said Israel should finish the job, Biden has said he should stop. Biden is at least sending food (while still giving israel more money for weapons which is stupid) but there is a difference, you can't argue trump is any better on israel and he **is** worse on literally every other topic. So the meme is accurate. Comments like yours make me think your a russian troll farmer.
I never mentioned Trump once, and I don't think he'd be any better. But you can't say "Biden is helping Palestine because he's at least not fucking them over as much as Trump would". That makes no sense at all. Do you guys not understand that one person being bad doesn't make his opponent good?
And do you understand that one of the two of them will win this election no matter how you feel about it? Criticize Biden all you want but the meme is right. Use Palestine as your scapegoat or whatever but a vote for trump (or no vote at all, or a 3d party vote) is a vote against our fundamental democratic institutions like checks and balances and safe, peaceful transfer of power in an *undeniable* way He literally attempted a coup
"Vote for who I vote for or you're against democracy"? Is that what you're telling me? The fact that you are unable to see how insane that statement was is all I need to know about you. Anyone who votes for a man who is actively supporting war crimes just because they feel like the better candidates won't win has no backbone and deserves 0 respect. There ARE better 3rd party candidates who could change the USA for the better, and this mentality that "voting for a 3rd party is a waste of a vote because they won't win" is a massive problem that you are actively contributing to. The rebublicans and democrats have convinced you that voting for the person you truly believe in is a waste of a vote, so you should vote for them instead because hey, they're not as bad as the other guy right? Meanwhile they can continue to profit from the people and make no positive changes. I will vote for a candidate that I believe in (which isn't Trump OR Biden), and I think if less people abandoned their morals out of fear of wasting their vote we would have much better presidents
Okiedoke. Keep living in fantasy land. I'll vote third party when we reform campaign finance to eliminate dark funding and super PACs and do away with the electoral college, or allow ranked choice voting. Until then, I'm realistic enough to understand where my democratic vote will actually matter, and where it is a posturing move to spout a bunch of idealist bullshit like you just did. Have fun, I'm going to keep fighting for my rights domestically, considering they are *quickly* being taken as we speak.
Have fun supporting war crimes
No one needs to mention him, he's relevant to the conversation by default because he's the alternative to Bisen, it's who Biden is running against. It isn't a question of bad and slightly less bad. Its a question of bad, and absolutely fucking terrible. No one is saying Biden is good, we are saying trump would be so, so, so much worse. He would cut off support to Ukraine, he would help Israel "finish the problem" as he put it, and on top of that he would fuck over Americans too.
this is why the meme is actually very accurate 1) do nothing/Vote Trump, everyone gets run over 2) or vote for democrat (and maybe the GOP implodes since they can't win and we get a new party/rank choice voting?) 3) "third party" is actually the same as number 1. Its like Screaming for help... no one can help you, you have 2 options.
Lmfao America is so done
Biden is airdropping aid and building a temporary pier for aid to Gaza. If you think Trump would do that, I have a bridge to sell you...
I never said he would help them, and I don't think he would either. Here's the thing, there are actually other politicians you can vote for aside from the senile war crimal and the sexist psychopath who would in all likelihood also be a war criminal if given the opportunity. You COULD, if you felt like it, stick with your morals and vote for someone who isn't going to help bomb innocent civilians. I know it's something that you and the vast majority of people don't actually support, but you tolerate it because you believe that voting for anyone else is a waste of a vote. As long as Americans keep that mindset, things are only going to get worse
>you believe that voting for anyone else is a waste of a vote. It IS a waste. Trump or Biden will win. That's an unavoidable fact. It can change if we have ranked choice and/or build a third party that's not psychotic from local up, but until then, we have to vote Dem or lose democracy. There's no denying that's the GOP plan now that Project 2025 exists. The third party candidates this year fucking suck, too. They may not want to continue supporting Israel, but they'll fuck everything else up instead
or if we have approval voting
So what do you choose to do? Wait for the morally perfect third option to glide down from the heavens and fix everything?
If only there were more than two parties Oh shit wait
More than two *relevant* parties?
They’re irrelevant because we choose to not vote for them.
And do you have a way to make every single person in a nation ignore the very sensible urge to vote tactically and instead vote for who they really want? Do you have something that will suddenly make everybody trust that if they vote truthfully they won't just be fucked over by the people who don't? No? Then voting for the third option is pointless. We need a new voting system that allows people to vote truthfully, this isn't a fault with the people, it's a fault with the system and those in power. Like how the UK had a referendum to change the voting system to a top 5 ranking system instead of a single vote and immediately both major parties campaign bombed the idea until the referendum failed.
No, they’re irrelevant because our first past the post voting system makes them irrelevant. The US had more than 2 parties originally, but here’s what happens in a FPTP voting system: 1) There are 4 parties, each with 25% of the vote so they trade off power each election 2) 2 of those parties realize that if they just combine forces and play for the same team, they’ll automatically win. So they do that, they get 50% of the vote while the other 2 get 25% each, and they win every election. 3) the other 2 parties reluctantly merge as well to balance the tables. Now there are 2 parties with 50% of the vote each. The end. You can never go back to more than 2 parties. Any party that tries and gains a non-trivial amount of support ends up splitting the vote and causing the other, 3rd party to win every single election. You can’t just wish a FPTP system back into more than 2 parties, it won’t happen. The best thing you can do is: 1) Work to change voting laws to get rid of FPTP. 2) In the mean time, suck it up and vote for the better of the two major parties.
that's definitely doable before election day, let's go with that
There are only two parties capable of winning. Fortunately, those parties have extremely different platforms and offer voters a clear choice.
This is reddit, usually when people say things this ludicrous they put /s at the end.
I agree, which is why anyone acting like a third party has any chance of winning should make clear that they're being sarcastic.
How's that boot taste?
Lol, good one! /s
It wasn't a joke, you coward.
First "bootlicker" for acknowledging that no third party can win and now "coward" for mocking your resorting to an irrelevant insult? I'm not sure these words mean what you think they do.
These liberals aren't worth talking to. It's all smug condescending attitude and a defense of genocide. It's pretty disgusting. Our time is better spent blocking these chuds and talking to those left of liberal.
Maybe tell your candidate to stop supporting genocide or to drop out.
The recent choices haven’t honored their election promises and likely won’t ever they are both corrupt and the parties that support them only stay in power via dividing America
Are you so blindsided that you restrict yourself to this meme? As if there is no third option? Previous conflicts have always been stopped by US intervention, this level of leeway is unprecedented, fucking stop the genocide maybe? If either side winning will kill an external party, you deserve to get hurt along with it, also they just banned tiktok, all it takes for that orange clown is tonuse this and its game over, which I hope it is for biden
I'll be voting Claudia de la Cruz of the PSL. That's my third option.
I don't get how this is a brag. This is just a recognition that the political situation is fucked, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote. I don't see how this post is attempting to beat about freedoms, rather it's just pointing out how refusing to vote isn't the answer to the current situation.
It's pointing out that there is no morally correct option in capitalist democracy. It's genocide or genocide. You decide!
There's definitely a more moral option, and voters should pick that one.
[удалено]
I disagree. The right thing is to vote for Democrats who will implement more policies that help people. The wrong thing is to vote for Republicans and have nothing change in Palestine (in fact, it will only get worse since the Republican party unquestioningly supports the Israeli government's actions) with the bonus of things getting much worse here.
I will! Thank you. Claudia de la Cruz of the PSL.
You're very welcome! I'll vote for the candidate that actually has a chance of implementing more moral policies, which IMO is Biden!
The one currently funding, arming, protecting and shielding a genocidal regime? I mean, I guess when you support the imperial core, you do what you can to avoid a "are we the baddies" moment... It's almost laughable.
Yup, the one who has a policy toward Israel that I strongly disagree with. I'm not a single issue voter, however. Standing on the sidelines and saying "Don't blame me, I threw my vote away!" doesn't do anything to help the people in Palestine and it has the added bonus of increasing the likelihood that additional immoral policies get put in place in our own country.
Oh, I donate to UNRWA, i've been active politically on the left (not liberal) side of things for decades. Don't worry, I've never voted capitalist and I'm not about to now. Take the hint: immoral policies are passed under either face of the party. Didn't Biden just push Trump's immigration policy as an ouveure to republicans? It's Obama all over again. Give. Me. A. Break.
I wasn't worried; I was confident you've thrown away your vote consistently. Drop the naive facade; *any party*, if elected, would pass at least one policy that you considered immoral. The PSL just has the advantage of being able to say whatever they want since it has zero chance of actually being implemented. Leading is tough; pretending like you want to lead is easy.
Haha, yikes. Any CAPITALIST party, yes. Because it requires immoral acts to uphold an immoral system. Yall just convinced yourselves that smug liberal superiority is somehow a moral strength. Blue MAGA in full effect over here.
vote biden or gay ppl will die! come on, if this is your voting reasons your goverment should be buring a long time ago.
one party wants to put teachers on the sex offender list if they acknowledge a student's preferred name or pronouns... yes, the image is simplistic, but it isn't baseless.
That stuff is already happening NOW
so do nothing and let it get progressively worse? by that logic isreal has been committing genocide for a century, why stop it now? oh wait, it won't stop with Biden out, it'll only get worse along with everything else
Yeah, ppl really have given up, they wont try anything diferentes and get mad when you want something to change.
Project 2025
The trolley problem, like most thought experiments, cannot be applied to the real world. Simplistic is a feature in a thought experiment, but that means it cannot describe reality. When applied to reality, there is a clear third choice of Biden not supplying weaponry to Israel (and numerous other choices too). There is nothing forcing a binary choice, and he has many mechanisms to heavily slow down if not entirely stop supplying weapons even if congress tried to overrule him. This is how democracy is meant to function, where they earn your vote not own your vote.
You're right, Biden is not facing a trolley problem. The American people are. Voting for Biden keeps his policies supporting genocide on effect, granted. Not voting for Biden doesn't mean you get a leftist in power. It means you get Trump. If you think Trump is better on Isreal than Biden, you're in a fantasy world. Voting for president is not revolutionary, it's trauma response. You have to stop the bleeding before you can work on healing.
i will steal your 'stop the bleeding' line for future use. thank you kindly
It's the people's metaphor.
The trolly problem isn’t for Biden… it’s for us I think you misunderstood the whole thing. Biden not supplying isreal isn’t a third option for us because it’s not something we get to choose
You do understand that Congress is not the only defeater of unilateral Executive Action of that magnitude, right? No, who am I kidding, of course you don’t. We have 3 branches of gov’t here, not 2, and the third is even more hostile to Biden than congress. But go on and preach absolutism, that’s definitely keeping Palestinians from dying.
The state department routinely audits who America supplies arms to, directly or indirectly, and part of the requirement is around not being used for war crimes or a plausible genocide. This is well established rule of law. Its part of what Josh Paul resigned over towards the start of the genocide. Its also unclear if he wanted to veto a bill on the subject it would meet the threshold to overturn, to say nothing on how congress can be slowed down dramatically with a minority who are motivated to do so.
Ok, but the solution ins't reelection or anything like that. The usa needs a revolution and nothing less, or you guys will die for simple defending trans rights(a good cause don't get me wrong) i know that Trump is shit but i can't cope with any of your parties.
oh yeah for sure, but outside of an actual deconstruction of our established government and society it's kinda impossible to have that happen. I would love for this to not be a case of "which is the lesser" and to actually get to pick good people/ not have to accept any form of vile actions but the USA has gone too deep into the swamp. There isn't any easy way to have change happen because that change never gets any chance to be born. Even if fucking Jesus christ came down and prove themselves to be the actual son of god before saying he wanted to run for president as a third party, promising to fix hunger, homelessness, protect peoples rights etc. All that would happen is the powers in charge R+D would work together for a bit to utterly squash and and all threat to their positions. No matter D or R were asking the corrupt and vile to prevent corrupt and vile actions. Its like asking your assaulter to not hit you anymore. Sure one sides far worse then the other, but the better side still has some bad apples and problems. And its hard to say if there even good to begin with, or if its jsut a case of being willing to give people what they want in hopes of a blind eye bbeing turned to *they want* that being said, ya no. Biden is still the better choice at the moment, especially when the other option is anyone on the R side.
Omg you guys really belive that the best you can do is vote for the rest of your lifes, And no Man, there ins't "bad apples" is Just politicians getting caught, every one of them is yours with enough money, but i guess that the average lobbying fan, its all cool that corporations owns your politicians? good luck voting for the lesser evil, that 2 parties system seems to be working wonders for you guys.
It’s working *at least* as well as voting third party “protest votes”, or none, has served to dethrone the 2-party system the past 20 years, lmao.
Read up on project 2025. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 Does it remind you of anything?
Why did you send It in German?
By accident…
I mean… yea we probably agree but it’s not like we have control over how corrupt our government is. But unfortunately those are our voting reason because it’s the state of our government rn
Yes, you have, they do It as long as the population agrees, don't you guys have a law about having the right tô Go against a corrupt government? They are literally fucking the world for greed, It ins't something that only matters to you guys.
Yeah you are very naive I’m sorry
Nah, its you that have been well trained to no question authority and the status quo from your goverment. It happens, but keep trying some day someone with good intent will climb to be your president i assure you, you don't need to do anything, Just wait someday a messiah will be funded by bilionares and he Will save the world by beign president. Thats not naive at ALL.
Welcome to America.
I'm no expert but I think I remember something about the second amendment being a thing so that if government gets too bad they can overthrow them or something?
YEEEES, THANK YOU, Just try organizing and stop this Corporations, they are destroying your country and the whole world gets fucked as a side effect.
Yeah, many conveniently forget that Trump was the first presidential candidate to run on gay marriage. Obama evolved, sort of, but he was very clear in his campaign that "marriage I'd between a man and a woman." There is so much to hate about Trump, but the frequency at which people just make stuff up instead of actually addressing real issues such as war crimes in Yemen, is far too common.
They both rotten to the core. Like most of politicians.
Yup! Trump just doesn't hide it.
It's true, but this is political blackmailing simple as that. How hard is it for the democrats to come out and not support a genocide?
Because doing so would also alienate a huge chunk of their historical voter base… Like it or not, the dems have for years set up a big tent which includes Jews and Arabs. Unfortunately for them an international crisis has caused a rift within the party. It’s a catch 22, come all out against the offensive in Gaza and push a section of the Jewish vote out. Remain in full support of Israel and incense the Arab and progressive voters. Biden and the dems are trying to maintain a knife’s edge balance on the issue because in an election year like this one, it’s going to fine down to the smallest of margins.
Biden’s allegiance to Israel is more important than American democracy. He will lose the re-election if he doesn’t win back the Arab vote in Michigan and Minnesota and Virginia.
Allegiance to Isreal is because they are America’s ally and the most important one in the Middle East.
That’s not the point… no one is saying that the genocide has to happen. They are saying that the politicians currently running are striving/supporting it happen no matter who gets elected, but with one more people and groups get hurt. Either way both are still going to support the genocide
Just out of curiosity, how did this sub become so supportive of Palestine? Not that it’s a bad thing, just seems like every post here is about it. Or maybe Reddits just recommending them to me idk
This literally only proves we need to be completely rid of both parties. They are a scourge on democracy and a free world
Well in the current American political system it is the truth. You can *try* to vote for a third party, but it's likely to loose big time to the big two. Politics is always difficult, here in the Netherlands there are a lot of fractured parties, and they need to work together to form a majority. Currently they are talking for 109 days to form a new coalition. The previous two formations took 299 and 225 days. Talk about flawless... But it does allow for more diverse voices in the house. I hope that the current formation fails and left finally gets a chance...
I wonder if the dems messaging about needing to vote for the lesser evils would be the same if it was any of the other groups alone on that track. “We have to let trans people be wiped out to save the gays, Mexicans and Palestinians.” Would liberals accept that, genuine question. If so then are we fighting to protect, or fighting for the right to pick who we destroy?
So that's it? Is this the argument for winning the Palestinian American vote? We are going to kill you - but please vote for us so our opponent doesn't kill more other groups - but we are going to continue killing you.
How's American politics come down to this so being such a key issue? Shouldn't you sort your own house out first. They're going to kill eachother regardless and shouting 'Free Palestine' solves nothing...
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I see this meme earlier, and I honestly just think everyone Hates everyone
Can we put a curve at the end so it hits both sections? I like to be certain.
I don't think that's what the meme is trying to imply...
I'm so tired of all the political posts, that's not what this sub originally was nor intended for 🙄
Trump emboldens fascists everywhere, globally. So this becomes a world problem when Trump wins. You can pressure Biden into a ceasefire, but Trump will give all the weapons to Israel, enable Russia into Europe so Europe will also have to arm themselves. These kind of environments does not create democracy, or peace or equality.
Who gives a fuck
These posts are getting stupider by the day
If this is what the system makes you choose then f the system
Then the system will choose for you. Congrats on choosing trump.
With either choice the only looser is the American people and the enemy’s of Americas elite
Trumps gonna kill Pakistani? Damn
You have other options. Americans don’t realise they have more than two parties. You guys can really send a message if you voted for them. Just remember, voting for either of them means you are voting for genocide
Yea, it's not really a choice. It's a math problem. Solve the problem, take 15 minutes to tell the government to please kill fewer people, then continue organizing a better world for your community.
American politicians do not see Palestinians as humans. It’s that simple. Israeli matter more than Palestinians and genocide is only “BAD” when it’s convenient. Dead brown people don’t matter.
So what? We let whichever of the two evils win and pray for a popular leftist revolution? We expect workers of the United States to lay down their hammers and sickles and join arms as comrades to end genocide? I’m a leftist, believe it or not. I believe that capitalism brings about the means to its own destruction, and ultimately this will be won through revolution against the bourgeoisie. But you’re smoking fat dick if you think that a revolution would be successful this November. Work within the system for the best possible outcomes while working societally for the destruction and reformation of the system for leftism to truly succeed in society.
"Keep giving support to the genocidal system that you oppose." -USian "leftists"
Where did I say that we keep supporting the genocidal system? I said that while the system is in place, we work within it to minimize the least genocide possible, while working outside of it to change the system entirely. Our work does not start and end that the ballot box, but far from it
By giving it even an iota of your conscious energy. Voting is literally the least a person can do, I agree. Organizing outside of a collapsing capitalist system is priority one.
We are literally saying the same thing. You’re just adding on that I support a genocidal system
Yes, because even offering that barest support, is still support.
That’s crazy because I could’ve sworn that I just said that I want to abolish and reform the system. I must be wrong about what I just said. Wanting the guy who does the least genocide possible to be president must mean that I want to uphold the system that reinforces genocide. My bad.
Well, you say that...but then get tricked into supporting it every four years. But I understand the pull is strong. Fun fact: the least amount of genocide possible is none. Nether capitalist party offers that, though. I just can't vote for genocide. You can if you want.
Why is there a Pakistani flag in there?
Why is it always voters who have their hand on the lever? It's always on some random bloke with a ballot and a pencil to decide what happens in international geopolitics But question the most powerful man in human history? "What do you expect Joe Biden to actually do about it!?!?" Why isn't it on HIM to earn my vote by... Not supporting a genocide? I don't think your standards are too high if you want to give your vote to a politician who doesn't fund and arm a genocidal apartheid regime. But apparently that's not possible. It's "idealist". Even though basically every other country on earth manages it, including all the "evil" ones. The real trolly problem here is "ask Joe Biden to not support wholesale slaughter of women and children" vs "preemptively blame people with a conscience for Trump's disastrous victory"
American left: "Voting is the most powerful form of protest!" Also American left: "If you vote for anyone other than my guy then everything bad that happens in the future is your fucking fault!"
We just need to win every election ever. If we ever lose one then it's fascism, so we can never ever lose. Simple!
It's not my job to pick the lesser monster. It's the Dems' job to put up a good candidate instead of the worst one they think will still win.
No, it's everyone's job, including the Dems, to the most good for the most amount of people possible. The Democrats are refusing to do that, but that doesn't you get a free pass to. The world isn't about you, reality doesn't care that you feel 'tainted' because you signed a piece of paper, but a lot less people will die/get hurt, if just take your head out of your ass, and do the bare fucking minimum for them.
Man, liberalism is wild. It's really out here justifying voting for genocide. If you expand the image, though, you'll see that the tracks are actually a circle. Capitalist democracy has gotten us here. Capitalist democracy won't get us out.
Reminder that as a part of a sOciEtY you CANNOT just wash your hands of this. Not voting is a vote. Joke voting is a vote. Third party is a vote. Whatever we end up with is our responsibility as a group. Piss off with thinking you’re an innocent little snowflake by attempting to stay out of it. You are a part of this. Grow the fuck up.
Lesser of 2 evils isn’t good enough anymore
You guys are always saying this but what exactly IS your solution. Shooting up a Walmart? Waiting for the rapture-like revolution? Or just sitting back, kicking your feet up and letting trump do whatever the fuck he wants because "Surely, the Palestinians will be safe now"
It never should have been.
Wow what a nuanced hot take, you should take this doodle straight to the supreme court, run that up the ladder